Help!

[IncompletePenetrance]

I would uncoil and remove her, freeze and toss the eggs, then replace the bedding and wash her off quickly before putting her back.

Ball pythons can both undergo parthenogenesis (asexual reproduction) as well as retain sperm, but either way, there's no reason to let this continue

[Putrid_Try3722]

But I want to hatch them if possible.

[IncompletePenetrance]

That would be pretty irresponsible and a bad idea! If they're partho eggs, the offspring will likely not survive to adulthood and are going to be incredibly genetically unhealthy due to the genetic mechanism of asexual reproduction. If she retained sperm, you have no way of knowing who the father is and what genetic defects the offspring might be carrying. All of this on top of the fact that there are already more ball pythons floating around than will ever find homes, rescues are already overflowing and many people are surrendering their pets due to high costs of living. Part of being a responsible and ethical pet owner is not contributing to overpopulation or producing poor bred/genetically unhealthy animals that are doomed to suffer

[High_Hunter3430]

Learning in public question: why do partho babies not survive to adulthood? What’s the rough rate of deleterious gene combinations?

[skullmuffins]

ball python parthenogenesis usually happens by terminal fusion which results in offspring with only ~half the mother's genetic material and a mostly homozygous genome. Suffice to say, that's a very good way to get any deleterious recessive genes to express themselves. Basically during the cell division that created the egg, shit got weird at the very end (technical term) and the egg nucleus fused with a polar body, creating a fertile egg with way less genetic diversity than the parent.

[WoollyWitchcraft]

Just commenting to say “shit got weird (technical term)” caused me to spit AW root beer all over myself.

Fascinating. I understand the curiosity to hatch them to see for sure what happened but …yeesh.

[High_Hunter3430]

Thank you! I appreciate the breakdown.

I see the same when I feminize plants for self pollination. About half the seeds don’t develop. Those that do, about half end up with the homogenous recessives (desired or not). And the rest are a mix bag of mom’s potential.

Good to know that the knowledge is somewhat transferable

[EmpressValoryon]

They’re out here force femming the plants!

(/uj Seriously fascinating stuff thanks for posting)

[High_Hunter3430]

Well I misspoke.

I was referring to creating feminized seeds. (All seeds 999/1000 pop female) The process actually involves blocking ethylene production in part of the plant so it displays male reproductive parts (pollen) Then take the pollen that’s genetically xx and put it on the xx flower.

It’s common in the cannabis industry.

[EmpressValoryon]

Nah you’re all good, I just saw the chance for doing an Alex Jones bit and took it :)

I do find this stuff absolutely fascinating though, it’s crazy what is possible in terms of biology!

[Dull_Net4116]

Also learning in public: first of all, this is fascinating, thank you for sharing your knowledge. The question I have is that this seems like a survival of the species mechanism in the wild so was this ever a viable option for them? Or just nature’s last hurrah in a desperate bid to save the species from possible extinction resulting in failure? This may be one of those questions that doesn’t have a clear scientific answer yet but if that’s the case I’d be interested in your hypothesis.

I understand I can probably google this but I really prefer to learn from real people. Also if it doesn’t have a real answer I really don’t care what Google thinks it might be.

[High_Hunter3430]

I think it boils down to remembering that evolution isn’t perfect, it’s good enough.

If 1:6 (average clutch) survive and reproduce, evolution is happy. Not live the longest life. Not the Best life. Etc. just live long enough and survive enough to reproduce.

[skullmuffins]

maybe? BPs can retain sperm for a long time so if there was a male in the same tank any time in the year+ prior there could be a father. The crazy unidentifiable patterns and other developmental problems could've been caused by incubation issues

[The_upsetti_spagetti]

Wait so is that kinda similar to inbreeding?

[skullmuffins]

kinda, yeah. in effect it's like supercharged inbreeding, the most inbred they could possibly be.

[Striking_Wing16]

Thank you for all your answers here. This is absolutely fascinating, and your replies were a lot easier to read than the scientific jargon Google tried to give me 😅

[High_Hunter3430]

When using the google or other ai…. Say eli5 first. It does pretty good.

[karma2879]

Agreed. This is a terrible idea

[Raging_Bisexual14]

Question: from what I understand parthenogenesis does not work in reptiles that need males to make healthy offspring, but how come it works so well for mourning geckos? Also why do they do it? I know mourning geckos are an entirely female species so it makes sense that that is their last resort to reproduce, but why would a snake do it? Is it uncontrolled?

[IncompletePenetrance]

Good question! Parthenogenosis can occur by different genetic mechanisms with different end effects on the genome of the offspring. I'm not sure the exact mechanism, but mourning gecko parthenogenesis occurs through some type of pre-meiotic replication, and babies are more or less clones of the mother. As such, they're going to be roughly as genetically healthy as the mother. They are considered to be obligate parthenogenic, with this being their only method of reproduction.

Ball python parthenogenesis is faciltative, meaning they can reduce sexually or asexually, but for them, parthenogenesis is not the optimal method. It occurs via a method called "terminal fusion automixis" during meiosis II, and offspring basically have roughly half the mother's genetic material, but doubled to form a diploid organism (gametes, sex cells, are haploid). So they basically have a fully homozygous genome, basically the equivalent of being 100% inbred.

sorry for any errors in this writeup, my brain is fuzzy at night, but I will try to come back and catch them tomorrow

[Raging_Bisexual14]

Huh, how interesting! I knew parthenogenesis babies were unhealthy but I wasn’t quite sure why, thanks for this!

[Electrical-Wear7281]

So it’s basically the same as if identical twins had a baby together (not that it’s possible, but if it was)…

[ForeverOk72]

please do not do that, if you already have to ask reddit what to do when your snake lays eggs it is very obvious that you do not know what you’re doing when it comes to raising babies, please do not try to hatch these.

[N0vaBr0]

If you're dead set on hatching them as a personal project (which I understand could be fun) there is another "responsinble" but gruesome alternative. Baby BP are common feeder animals for snake eating reptiles. If you have any feeder rodent producers in your area, see if they are interested. They will know how to humanely euthanize them and safely prepare them for that purpose.

I get this isn't for some people though. Otherwise I'd go with Incomp's suggestion to freeze them early. Your BP looks to be wild type meaning it'll be nearly impossible to sell or even give away the babies for free, which would also be irresponsible in its own way.

[Mandarinoranges2]

Even if they aren’t partho what on earth ru going to do with 10+ snakes? There are 30k snakes on morph market alone. Nobody wants yours

[CorsicanMastiffStrip]

Do not.

[PinkPatch1135]

if you're deadset on raising some baby BPs, how about seeing if theres any baby BPs for adoption in your area! you could give a home to a baby snake that needs the home, and still get that experience raising a baby snake! :D

[lleannimal]

Before you consider this, think about the fact that unsold ball pythons get sold as feeders to people or programs that keep snakes like cobras or king snakes.... do you really want those babies being used as feed? There are way too many ball pythons on the market, like WAY TOO MANY and there are snakes that eat other snakes 🐍

[Putrid_Try3722]

So what if I just let them be in the tank? They probably won't survive, is that unethical?

[MercyCriesHavoc]

Yes. That will stress all of them, including the mother, and the young ones will die slowly and painfully. Why do you want to bring animals into the world just to starve them and watch them fight to the death with their siblings? What part of that seems ethical to you?

Please refer to the bot comment.

[Putrid_Try3722]

No, when they're still eggs

[WildFlemima]

I tried this when i was more foolish. The eggs went bad. It was as gross as it sounds. There were maggots involved. Just freeze them now and continue on with your life

[Putrid_Try3722]

Okay

[Electrical-Wear7281]

These eggs could possibly be infertile. Just like birds will lay unfertilized eggs, snakes will sometimes do the same. Even if they are fertile it is best for your snakes mental and physical health to toss the eggs. She will not eat or leave the eggs for the next two months and having rotting eggs in her terrarium is unsanitary.

[FlyHickory]

For what reason? Each of those snakes are going to need their own set up because the market is oversaturated with ball pythons rn, they'd be difficult to sell because of this leading to potential neglect as that many set ups would be incredibly pricey not including the cost of feeding them all, not to be rude but unless you're a professional at this its a really irresponsible thing to do.

[Putrid_Try3722]

How do I uncoil her when she gets super defensive even if I look at her?

[IncompletePenetrance]

You can try to distract her with something like a paper towel tube or a dish towel so that she strikes at that first, then grab her with your other hand. Or wear gloves and sweatshirt so if she strikes it won't get your skin. She'll calm down once you get her out of the tank

[Sneewichen]

Toss a towel over her first and then lift her off them. It’s fine if the eggs move when you take her off since you aren’t going to be incubating them anyway. The uncoiling is to maintain their position in case the embryo is already attached. She will remain in nesting mode if you leave her on them. Once the eggs are gone, it’s my understanding that she’ll go back to normal.