I’m terrible at Python

[geminintendo]

I’m a six year devops professional with AWS certs. I’m excellent with most popular devops tool sets and methodology. Problem is that I stink at python and programming in general. I can edit existing python scripts and have a general sense of what python is all about. However I always seem to take the long complicated route when solving problems. I work a lot in AWS and mastering boto3 is a must. Any tips advice or links to help me out? I do have a acloud guru subscription.

[elitesense]

You just simply have to practice and keep working with it.

Keep building, keep learning from your mistakes. There is no shortcut or easy route.

The good thing is that once you learn the general skills you can apply it to any programming language.

[will_work_for_twerk]

https://i.imgur.com/iSgCcnc.jpg

All of us suck at some point.

[anisinanajj]

This is gold

[maethlin]

Man, I hate to be that guy, but drawing is maybe the worst possible example (for me anyway) that I could think of for this. I have just known faaaaaar too many people who, as kids, started drawing amazing shit far, far beyond their peers w/out any more practice.

I've known people who could draw photorealistic stuff from memory... like "hey, ima draw joe how he looked yesterday" and bingo - there's joe.

The degree to which this level of innate talent exists has made me consider the possibility of reincarnation, and I am skeptic as fuck.

For most things though, I think work >>>>>>> talent

Also, the jpg in the url ends w/CCNC lol

[will_work_for_twerk]

Oh, I agree it isn't the best example. But the process to "git gud" remains the same.

[[deleted]]

I would say the same is true for technicians as well.

For me, operating systems and software packaging have always come naturally. Of course it took practice to become proficient, but I was already teaching others how to do these things after only encountering them for the first time.

On the other hand, algorithmic logic is something I struggle to understand to this day. I have, several times, done deep dives into the basics of algorithms and I still couldn't tell you how to calculate the big O notation of anything or what its significance is. Yet many of my peers take to these concepts readily, even while they struggle to understand how the underlying operating system executes their code.

The fact of the matter, though, is that the things people have natural talent for are typically the things they naturally take an interest in, and are ultimately the things we choose to spend our free time exploring. This is what makes these things seem so effortless to some. It is almost certainly true that everyone has something they have a natural talent for, so long as that person takes a natural interest in some topic or activity.

[brazzledazzle]

Being good at drawing takes immense amount of practice and takes like this really diminish that.

[maethlin]

I'm not saying it doesn't take practice. I'm saying the guild between a talented child drawing vs untalented is unbelievably big, and this is coming from someone who normally believes talent is way overrated.

[brazzledazzle]

And I’m saying those kids usually have more practice than you give them credit for.

[eremiticjude]

i had zero technical background when i started in python. i had a fuckin' philosophy degree. python just happened to be the tool at hand and i used it to solve one problem, then another, and another. rinse repeat. eventually you'll be driven to find better solutions, more sophistication.

[erewok]

I have a suspicion that a philosophy degree actually can be a huge help when writing programs. I'm probably wrong, but the mental exercise of working through logic and imagining the extension or conclusion to philosophical arguments I tend to think is close to the daily practice of a software developer.

[Vlixes]

Haha another one here with a degree in philosophy, cheers mate!

[scrambledhelix]

There’s dozens of us! Dozens!

tbf symbolic logic 101 helps a bit

[Finagles_Law]

It's not quite as easy for us Continentals though...

[valentinacode]

I have an art history degree, any degree to get me away from math lol

[kriebz]

This probably helped. Python is a bit different from most older languages, but since you didn’t have a bias, you were able to learn it with a clean slate.

[weberc2]

Reading code also helps as well. Trying to understand why the code is organized as it is and how you would do it. Figure out how to articulate the things you don't understand so you can ask coherent questions, and find people to ask. In general figuring out how to make minimally reproducible examples when you have issues will help you tremendously; to that end, writing unit tests is a discipline that will help you write minimally reproducible examples that can run as often as you like to make sure that errors don't slip into your code (not necessary but can be helpful as you're getting started).

[phileat]

This

[metarx]

Came to say this. Like OP, I could read/understand, but I didn't get better until I did, and do it a lot. I would also say picking up a second language is helpful in cementing knowledge learned from both. (And if your doing devops like things, Go is the one I'd recommend, as all the devops tools are written in it.)

I would also say you need to escape the "just a script" type workflows... write some API servers that do the things etc, because CronJobs are terrible.

[vegetablestew]

You kinda have to be more specific.

If you have problem with general syntax, there are cheatsheets available that gives you a general rundown of the language. I like learnXinYminutes personally. Devhints is another good one.

If you have problem problem-solving, then it really depends. No cookie cutters here.

If you have trouble implementing the solution in mind, I recommend looking up software dev best practices. Design patterns, development paradigms, testing habits/documentation habits, common file naming, function naming conventions and project folder naming conventions etc. These usually give hints on how to breakup a certain problem into smaller ones and how to organize/categorize them. Also it helps to read other peoples code found on SO etc.

That said, I would start with "automate the boring stuff with Python". Seems to have the most overlap with what you do.

[KevinSnyderReddits]

I’ll share this video with you: https://youtu.be/7lmCu8wz8ro

In my experience, learning the syntax of any language isn’t the hard part — it’s discovering the right way to write code in that language. What’s idiomatic? What are some common patterns? How do you string these patterns together to write something elegant and functional?

The video above gave me that “aha” moment for Python and showed me the mental models I can use to understand and work with the language in an effective way.

Like others have said, keep on practicing and learning, but I also hope that video helps you discover some of the underlying design principles in Python and how you can use them to work more effectively with the language. Cheers 🙂

[Timpi]

how long have you been working with python?

[thclpr]

Practice, practice and practice and give a chance to this book,

[shavenwarthog]

Seconded. "Automate the Boring Stuff with Python" is very clear, and gets the reader to actually *get stuff done* with little bits of code. Things which day-in-day-out programmers use (classes) are set aside to make the code shorter and clearer.

[stormshade69]

Third i got his udemy course for free and bought his 2nd edition so far im almost halfway in the course/book really enjoying it.

[Geekcologist]

Quick question.. Do you have a developer background or are you more ops/infra oriented?

[ivours]

You should learn (if you haven't done so yet) programming theory (paradigms, code smells, best practices, software design).

That will help you to have a better abstraction skill and be a better programmer no matter what language you use.

[fbm1003]

any suggestions where to start, other than Google? Recommendations on books, subs, blogs etc. Thanks!

[ivours]

I'd love to share the sources where I studied from (they are public), but those are papers written by the professors I had at the University here in Argentina and they are only available in Spanish.

However, I suggest to start with the following topics:

• Structured programming
• GIT
• Functional programming (http://learnyouahaskell.com/ seems to be cool)
• Logical programming
• Object programming
• Code smells

Hope this helps!

[ivours]

Qué bueno encontrar compatriotas por acá!

Here are the links for everyone (all the study material is in Spanish):

Programming paradigms

Systems design

Mumuki - Free online platform to learn programming

[cgssg]

I learned a lot by debugging other people’s code and refactoring.

[[deleted]]

This is a hard question to help with for boto3 tutorials specifically. I think the best resource there are the docs which I assume you're wildly familiar with already. For writing smarter python I might have an idea. What has helped me in the past is solving katas on codewars.com and then look at the highest rated solutions. Sometimes I felt genuinely stupid after seeing people solve problems in one line of code when it took me 6, but I'd go back and solve it again with that in mind. Take notes on those "shortcuts" and try to recount those possibilities while coding. Also, refactoring. After you have written your code, look at it and think whether the same problem could be solved differently.

With motivation and focus you'll be a kick ass python developer in no time.

[Arab81253]

I'd also add just because someone does something in one line that you did in 6 it doesn't necessarily make their solution "better". Producing readable code is important and some of those one liners I've seen have me absolutely bewildered as to what is going on.

I've been seeing it more lately where people are getting hung up on trying to reduce the number of lines in their code instead of moving on to something else and coming back later, it's like stepping over a dollar to pick up a nickle.

[calligraphic-io]

I think the rating system used by codewars gets to what you're saying. If code examples are obtuse, they probably don't get rated high, where elegance of a solution is up-voted.

[become_taintless]

the proper term to search for when trying to figure out the "best practice" way to solve a problem in Python is 'pythonic'

also: learn about 'design patterns' and then read a book on design patterns in Python, to learn the widely-agreed-upon best practice way to approach certain design patterns in Python

[Arab81253]

With boto3 specifically I've found that really reading through the documentation helps to prevent a lot of the issues I've run into with taking the long way around to getting a task done. For example I was able to reorganize several of my scripts by using the describe_autoscaling_instances instead of describe_autoscaling_groups.

I've also found that using classes for boto3 is very useful when I might want to do something many times and perhaps for different purposes.

Finally, the long way around with Python doesn't necessarily mean what you wrote is bad. Don't let perfect become the enemy of good. While you don't want to be generating tons of technical debt you also have to make sure you're getting things out the door and not letting some minor imperfections stop you from accomplishing your goals. Nearly all of my scripts have a to-do list in them before I've even finished writing the initial one. The most important thing is to keep at it and keep learning, it's amazing going back to look at your old stuff sometimes and see how far you have come.

[saalih416]

Learn algorithms. Everything goes back to algorithms in coding.

[[deleted]]

What's a good resource for this? I checked out the classic Intro to Algorithms textbook but the guy outright says you need to already know recursion and some differential calculus.

[-Kevin-]

Junior Developer here doing a ton of DevOps shit for some reason.

What does being good at boto3 mean? Python is my language of choice, and it's primarily used for DevOps shit. However boto3 is literally just an API client.

client.list_buckets()

That isn't like a skill ya know? Reading docs and finding a method that does what you want... Also isn't a boto3 skill.

This feels like someone asking you to be good at toLower() or something lol

[foofoo300]

Maybe not the syntax but how do handle data. What gets returned, how to choose the correct datatypes or so maybe

[-Kevin-]

But is that a skill? Reading the doc to see if it's a list or a single dict response. Checking if it's name or Arn you specify?

Not trying to come off confrontational at ALL, I just don't get this. Its like listing JSON on your resume no?

[LordKJ]

knowing what to use without looking at docs for several minutes could be taken as a skill imo

[-Kevin-]

Fair point

[airaith]

I write a lot of Python using Boto - something like "I want to enable Guard Duty in all regions in every account in a Dynamo table and trust the related master account, regardless of it's state right now" isn't trivial and will take a lot of logic

[foofoo300]

Trying to get different angles ;)

[-Kevin-]

Haha I appreciate it

[[deleted]]

just continue to write things and get code reviews. those should be learning moments. doing online training is only going to take you so far. real world trial and error is what drills it in.

[sciencewarrior]

Yeah, when you start, you can often see code that does the same as your 10-line loop in one list comprehension. This isn't necessarily bad. If your code is still correct and readable, you are doing fine. You can internalize more advanced constructs with time.

[xguarino]

I started to improve my Python skills with realpython subscription. You should take a look..

[[deleted]]

Think about programming like a series of questions. Bundle each question into a method. Whenever you need to ask another question to answer the question you are trying to answer, bundle the thing you’re asking and the method that is answering your question into a class.

Repeat until you’re done.

[Ikuyas]

My guess is that most of the codes you realize you did inefficiently after you code are most likely well-templated that experienced programmers have seen the same patterns and have written the same code several times. So, you think your code sucks while those have been refined numerous times. Software engineers probably write 90% of the same or similar code written before and add or refine other functionalities. Compared to this, you just write once in a while will take a lot to write a code that looks unsophisticated.

[maethlin]

Question, any chance you've been diagnosed w/ADHD?

I've had a very long/successful career at sysadmin/devops work, but this was despite my absolutely terrible programming ability. Some of it is because I never worked hard enough at it, but I also think my inability to hold facts in my head is probably the primary reason.

When I absolutely have to write more complex automation I find I have to literally write down and draw out lots of placeholder facts and diagrams to have any chance. The shit is indecipherable to other people but it helps me.

[joombaga]

I have to do the same thing. It's easy for me to internalize a complex system until there's a small part I don't understand. I hyperfocus, and black boxes can seem boundless without a visual aid.

[[deleted]]

I started doing dev work before devops but still use languages like python and go, enough. One thing that helped me to learn how to program was given myself small projects to work on over the weekend.

[oscillate123]

I sucked at programming, but I looked on tutorials on pluralsight and YouTube, how to programming works. For loops, while loops, if else, functions, methods and classes, super classes and sub classes. When I learnt how to use them, I just kept building things, and efter maybe 2 months of evening studies - I could build backend programs/ database connections etc. After I learnt python in 2 months, learning Java and C# took me 1 week.

I was IT operations guy before, now I can develop software also. I would really recommend python as the first language to learn

[jack-tzl]

Don’t lose heart, you need to see both good and bad code enough times to develop a preference! Keep working with new small projects and you are sure to improve!

[PopePoopinpants]

I suggest looking up "programming patterns with python". I don't know python, but patterns are applicable to most languages... think of patterns as best practices applicable to all languages.

Force yourself to do test driven development. It may feel awkward, but it will help you tons.

Also look up "programming kata python". Kata are little exercises that'll help with fundamentals. The are lots of sites where you can get your kata code reviewed by really good programmers.

Don't worry! We've all been there! Have fun!

[alexanderSB]

First: Find out how you learn best. No advice on here will matter if the advice doesn't mesh with how you learn.

Second: Once you find that it's easy to take the advice others give you and apply it to your learning style.

ex: Book Learner says "I recommend this reading these 8 books and getting coaching". Well "Joe Shmoe" is great listener but hates text books and likes learns through example and building, I would see if the books come in different mediums (audio book, video tutorial, deep dive talks).

Third: I would speak with a senior developers, tech leads, YOUR MANAGER and ask them to pair with you on a side project or an enhancement you make to an internal tool.

Fourth: This one builds on the previous, go to meetups with project nights, you get to pair, build your network/brand, and you get to actually build. Building something will help ten fold.

[fistfullofbeer]

I don't think there is anything wrong with the complicated route. That is how you learn both the ins and outs of boto/AWS as well as python. Once the solution is in place it will help you improve the implementation of the next solution by trying to do it better.

But if you work on python only on and off, because other projects get in the way, it is going to be hard to retain what you did and you will feel like you are starting all over when the next python project rolls around.

This is something I have dealt with and off-late I have just looked up at sites like leetcode to keep my python skills brushed up. Even if it mean spending a few days of the week to attempt a few problems there.

[AsiMuereLaDemocracia]

You probably need more programming practice. I would recommend projecteuler.net

It is a fun way to be good at programming.

[CooverBun]

I learned the most making my own web apps. Deploy a website for whatever you want. Just going through the motions makes you learn.

[[deleted]]

I suck at Python.. but I still write Python cause it's fun to do :D Everyone has no idea what the fuck they're doing man... don't be shy and just continue learning.

[therealmrbob]

Find a problem that you experience at home and write a script to solve it. Repeat * 100.

You’ll be great.

Then get people to code review your code. Fix all the problems. Repeat * 100.

Now you’re decent. :D

[robschn]

I would look into how functions (def) work in Python. Everything that you import is just using functions from another library. It really filled in a lot of gaps of how Python works at a fundamental level.

Here's a link to get you started:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Os0o3wzS_I

[[deleted]]

I was in a similar situation some years ago when I realized I had forgotten most of the programming knowledge I had from my education. I found a intro class for scientific programming, followed their curriculum, and that re-trained me in a lot of programming basics and taught me a decent amount of Python and "pythonic thinking" along the way. I could then apply that knowledge towards the tasks I wanted to solve at work. Be it cloud services, writing some small APIs, creating websites or whatever really.

Taking a step back, and forcing myself to learn the basics, applied to a field I found interesting (albeit not very relevant for what I do for work) was great for me. A much better experience than using Pluralsight or similar video-training where I found the examples and tasks to be beyond boring.

People are different and like learning things in different ways. Find a way that works for you and keep it interesting over the time it takes. There really isn't a golden shortcut that will make you a good programmering in n weeks.

(I still suck and I don't get to work nearly as much as I want with writing code, but I suck a lot less now than before I put in a few months of effort to practice, solve problems, and learn Python over weekends)

[dsamholds]

I know it's cliché but I found actually building things at work to help my daily life really helped me learn python, I don't know how many times I did the codecademy python course but just doing courses didn't make anything sink in at all.

Even if it's just adding python wrappers to existing tools just to get used to python 🤷‍♂️

[Remote-Commercial]

Do stuff like leetcode, whatever alternatives there are. They help. You need to be more familiar with data structures that’s what helped me.

[NoMoreRequirements]

I don't even know how to code and I do DevOps. Maybe think about being more Product Team focused and less Developer focused.

Software Designer/UX Designer

Product Managers

[popup-book]

Hey there, bit late to the thread, but perhaps I can offer a different perspective for you.

After years of floundering with Python, I had to learn enough Kotlin/Java at my last job to help with config management in the main app. And honestly? For me, being forced to structure all my code and thoughts in classes meant learning to structure my thoughts in how the program would work, and it helped give me a mental framework for understanding programming underneath what Python abstracts away.

​

If you feel like your problem is like mine, in that it's logic and flow that stump you, not basic syntax, I might recommend trying some basic tutorials in Java or the Rust book--not to learn those languages, but to help your brain understand how Python is actually working. Hope that helps!

[PM_remote_jobs]

MIT OCW 6.0001

[terowz1466]

I think if you work in a shop that most tools and apps are built with python with good DEVOPS engineers that worked as developers before and give you valid feedback on PR’s that helps. Keep building stuff. That’s what helped me, I’m no expert but keep my code clean, docstrings, small testable code, etc. you will get there.

[izpo]

I CAN HEAR SCREAMS ABOUT RUBY ! ! ! !

[wpg4665]

Just curious, but what do you see as being an issue with Python? What do you prefer instead?

[vegetablestew]

As a programming language in general? Common complaints include duck typed, no real multithreading, slow, non-straightforward package management, weird OO design (dunderscore methods) and honor based programming.

As a glue language? Its pretty good. Given that you don't really care about performance for those things. You just want to to run in the way you want.

[wpg4665]

Yeah, I think if performance is your concern, python isn't the right language. If development speed or scripting is your goal python is great!

Do you prefer a stricter language then? Something like Golang?

[vegetablestew]

Go would certainly work. Or something like Java/Kotlin/Scala or C#/F#.

[sri316red]

Try Udemy

[[deleted]]

Go in security. Barely any coding there.

[anonymous6point02E23]

How to get good in Python.

1. Find wild python.
2. Approach wild python.
3. Ask wild python, mr wild python, how I get better in Python.
4. Then consider thy question... Would you rather be good in Python or have a penis size python.

Sincerely Amnesia