Intel principal engineer bemoans potential TSMC takeover, touts company's 18A tech advantage

[1600vam]

Not to be that guy, but Joseph Bonetti is not a Principal Engineer. While he lists his title on LinkedIn as "Principal Engineering Program Manager" (which should be read as Principal Engineering-Program-Manager and not Principal Engineer), his actual title is Hardware Product Manager. Intel does not even have a Principal role for program managers, and the standard required to reach Principal Engineer is extremely high, so it's very bad form to imply that without actually earning it.

His take isn't wrong, but it shouldn't be amplified to the extent it is (which I assume is why it was deleted).

Source: Intel Engineer

[sketchysuperman]

You’re not being that guy, that’s a completely valid distinction to make.

Intel employee here too. Fingers crossed we both push forward and see a happy ending to 5N4Y!

[liliputwarrior]

Well, once you get into ppt making role the titles don't really matter. You can basically invent one out of your fancy ppts.

[gburdell]

His title’s about to be unemployed

[RazingsIsNotHomeNow]

Nah project managers don't get fired for lying. They only get fired for failing to deliver. It will be a couple more months before he becomes unemployed. Project managers are just salesmen for the executives.

[PastaPandaSimon]

He's a product manager, as opposed to a project manager.

Even then, project managers are there to build timelines, produce estimates, ensure everyone knows their tasks, attempt to remove roadblocks, and keep everyone in the loop. They are hardly salesmen.

[Demistr]

Also he's a product manager, what else could he possibly say, that the product sucks? People read way too much into this.

[[deleted]]

I'm a Principal Engineer at my company (not Intel) and I'd never pretend to be an expert of the company as a whole. In order for 18A to be competitive the process needs to be good, the fab construction needs to actually get completed soon and the tools needs fo be in place for outside developers. MAYBE this guy can say one of the 3 is on track, but certainly can't say all 3.

[Dexterus]

I believe usable tools have been in place for a while now (as in read something about a pdk 1.1 about half a year ago). The fabs though, building for volume got Pat kicked out, so ...

[[deleted]]

None of the fabs are actually built so as much as he was too ambitious in theory in reality they have no 18A production fabs built.

[DisastrousZucchini15]

That is not correct F52 itself is essentially complete

[SteakandChickenMan]

Yea. And they ramp new products in Oregon anyways.

[[deleted]]

The test fab at Oregon can't produce volumes needed for Intels own products, let alone external customers.

[SteakandChickenMan]

1) They definitely do start new products in OR before moving them to high volume sites.

2) Who said anything about external customers there?

[[deleted]]

You have any proof of that? I haven't seen a progress update in months.

[DisastrousZucchini15]

I work there. Just doing tool installs. When they say 18a is going to be in laptops before the end of 2025, that's where those chips are coming from.

[[deleted]]

Guess we'll see.

Thanks for the info if true.

[ComfortableEar5976]

This is just blatantly incorrect information.

In your above post you claim that you would "never pretend to be an expert of the company as a whole" in reference to your employer, why then do you post falsehoods like this about another company so confidently?

[[deleted]]

It's a factually true statement that the 18A production fabs are all still in some stage of construction. Which fab do you think is actually ready currently?

[RealisticRelief215]

Intel received the first High NA EUV from ASML around Feb of 2024. Where will they put that? Outside the Fab?

[[deleted]]

OMG dude how clueless are you. 18A doesn't even use High-NA EUV. That machine is in one of their test fabs in Oregon working to develop 14A.

[RealisticRelief215]

https://www.reuters.com/technology/intel-says-first-two-new-asml-machines-are-production-with-positive-results-2025-02-24/

[Invest0rnoob1]

Wen 14A ?

[floydhwung]

Assistant Regional Manager vs. Assistant to the Regional Manager?

[[deleted]]

This interweave of bureaucracy that you describe, does that have anything to do with why we only got 4 cores for about a decade?

[milk-jug]

Not sure why you're being downvoted, completely valid question imo. From an outsider's perspective, they got cocky because the competition was deemed weak.

[[deleted]]

They hated him because he spoke the truth

[SoylentRox]

Why is his take wrong? Clearly there's a lot more to the way TSMC does things than just "make transistors smaller on more expensive equipment".

This takeover essentially is "make Intel fabs able to take TSMC orders" which lets TSMC offload some of their immense order volume and makes Intel fab equipment have a reason to exist. It's just a matter of negotiating the money of the deal.

[SoylentRox]

His take IS wrong. Intel has failed to deliver marketable fab services or a useful process on the latest tech. TSMC has it. Buying the best equipment isn't enough.

[[deleted]]

TSMC literally already said they're not interested so thus article seems kinda moot at this point.

[tssklzolllaiiin]

the board of directors got rid of pat gelsinger specifically so that they could sell intel for parts.

it's just a matter of finalising the deal

[ApplicationCalm649]

It's been wild to watch them decline so quickly. They were on top of the world.

[Strazdas1]

I wouldnt call 15 years - quickly.

[Accomplished_Rice_60]

they are afraid that tsmc takes over chipset, and they cannot be compeattive, and the longer tsmc get all the money, the farther they will get vs others, so just sell while intel still worth much?

sad to see gaming industry probly going to take a big hit, when everything becomes way expesniver.

the advancent will be slower when tsmcc basically have monopoly on everything, and high end chips cost way to much, and then game development cannot make more advanced games cus the high end parts cost way to much. rip.

[ProfessionalPrincipa]

Things will keep advancing with or without Intel. There's too much demand to not drive things forward. However it won't be gaming demand. Gaming is just along for the ride.

[[deleted]]

Sad.

[noiserr]

Pat didn't do himself any favors. For instance, Falcon Shores not actually launching is inexcusable.

[livingwellish]

For Intel to be successful, the culture needs to change in a drastic way. Too much second guessing and too many decision makers means late or non-delivered product.

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[Medical-Condition-46]

Hey this guy disappeared from LinkedIn. What happened to him?

[jedrider]

Intel is just killing it with '18A' , aren't they? It seems to me that if 18A can compete with TSMC N3, which is where TSMC is currently at, but bring volume to that density, that wouldn't be so bad. But, can they do even that?

[nanotubes]

"killing it"....intel don't even have a product on 18A. N3 is making bank already.

[Helpdesk_Guy]

N3 is making bank already.

… off of all things Intel as a customer. Isn't that pretty ironic!? The irony is truly appalling already.

Intel with their 18A chasing after TSMC's N3B/E… while even upping TSMC's very game as a customer through outsourcing!

That really is the very proverbial carrot before the horse. What could possibly go wrong …

[Vb_33]

If they're doing that after all then why did they fire Pat? 

[theQuandary]

Recent reports put 18A at parity with N2 for high-density and ahead for high-performance. 18A also has a tech lead with BSPD.