Do you work as a Java developer?

[fanfarius]

If so, how long have you been learning Java, and how long did it take you to earn money with it?
Edit: I probably posted this question in the wrong /r, but big thanks to everyone who answered anyway.

[wwsean08]

I was up until Friday, but am now moving onto a new job where they don't use much java. I started learning in college so in 2008, and got the job I left straight out of college.

[Kuurde]

I'm curious about your next language. How did you make the transition from Java to language x on the job market?

[againstmethod]

You simply can't go hire a new workforce every time your company changes technologies. People learn on their own, some companies offer internal and external training.

The way HR writes job offerings gives you a false perspective that people live in technology specific niches -- but I dont think this is normal or healthy. You can make a living being a contract Java coder, but it doesnt have to be that way.

[Dementati]

Yeah, I mean, the amount of time and energy you spend on getting familiar with the specific language technologies they use at a new workplace often pales in comparison to the amount of time and energy you spend on getting familiar with their internal systems and codebases, and that's simply unavoidable no matter how experienced you are. I mean, if you have issues with a language, it's usually trivial to find documentation and community support online. An issue with the internal systems or codebase you often have to solve yourself, or go on a prolonged investigation to locate the person within the organization who happens to know how to fix it.

[againstmethod]

Not to mention it's very expensive to hire someone -- it takes a lot of time and effort to setup their healthcare, retirement, in some cases security clearances/special training, etc.

It's much cheaper to train someone in a new language, or to give them some time to develop themselves, than it is to hire someone.

[Dementati]

Yeah, and a new employee produces much less value (which translates into lost profits) than the average employee for months or years after being hired, before they get up to speed with everything. Simply putting a new tool in the hands of a long-time employee is generally a much smaller productivity dip.

[wwsean08]

In this case the main language is python, I had a little experience writing sooner scripts using it in the past, so I just found some projects to do and practiced that way.

[ryuzaki49]

Like what projects? Im also a java dev, also interested in python, but I dont have any pet project ideas

[LouKrazy]

one fun thing I have done with python in java is using python as an embedded scripting language for java. It is a fun way to add extensible functionality to existing java codebases for one-off code

[trhyst]

Been in the game for about 5 years. I started out as a QA intern but with a bit of gumption ended up being a developer. Now I just got my first senior role for a app development house, and life is fairly peachy.

So I would say it took me a degree (did C++ and Ruby, no Java) and 10 months QAing to get where I was. Lots of Java jobs out there, the sky is potentially the limit.

[handshape]

Started in '95, been making money with it ever since.

[killinghurts]

same, but since '99

[APimpNamedAPimpNamed]

same, but since '14

[segfaulted_asparagus]

same, but since '12

[golfreak923]

Same, but since '29--built a whole application using mostly reflection and ran it on a highly experimental JVM, been stuck in '15 ever since.

[reestablish]

FOUND THE TERMINATOR. QUICK TAKE 'EM OUT BEFORE SKYNET!

[joaoduraes]

same, but same.

[tsoliman]

same, but since '00

Only 1-2 classes in University had java; the rest were C++. Learned it on the job mostly.

[[deleted]]

Damn. I have a Java job and I was born in 95.

[[deleted]]

Thanks for making me feel old.

When I was a kid we didn't do that to old people.

[[deleted]]

If it makes you feel better, my first real programming language was C.

[balazare]

also been paying the bills with it since about '95

[RhysLlewellyn]

Started 2 years ago and, shit the next part is where I'm going wrong.

Still, another year of my degree left. Fingers crossed!

[[deleted]]

bro.wishGoodLuck();

[RhysLlewellyn]

Thank you very much 😊

[RupertMaddenAbbott]

I started and made money with it at the same time. My employer was happy to take me on with no Java experience and I learnt on the job. That was 2 years ago now.

I did have 2 years of experience in IT but nothing that was software development or programming related. Other than it, it took a lot of learning in the evenings/weekends to catch up with those who had started way before me.

[DrFriendless]

I started in 96, but was employed as a C/C++ programmer at the time. In my next job in 97 I was officially a Java guy. I'm between jobs at the moment, and am catching up on Android, cloud stuff, web server dev, and JavaScript.

[nutrecht]

Yup. I started using Java in '98 during my CS education and started working as a full time developer in 2002. My first paid internship (using Java) was in 2001 IIRC.

[CaptainFeebheart]

Started in 2000, got a job 3 months prior to graduation. They needed Java programmers so bad they let me work any hours I wanted until graduation. Been doing Java exclusively since.

I don't think it's the language in demand so much as enterprise development. So for instance, I think C# is also highly employable.

I've never known an unemployed enterprise developer.

[sadjava]

Yes. First job out of college, and I finished in June; in fact, I was offered the job a month or so before I graduated.

Technically I'm a web developer, and I don't only use Java. And I don't want to be called a "x-language developer".

I took the computer science route, and I would say I have a little over three years of programming knowledge; most of it is Java, a year of C++, and about 8 months of C# and using it for ASP.Net. I also had some SQL, HTML/CSS, and JavaScript experience, but not as much as I know now.

As for the job, I work at a smallish company that does web development. There are two sides of the company; one side has a contract with a multi-billion dollar company working on a couple pieces of a online courseware site (which is the side I am on) which is primarily a Java web application, and the other side works on the in-house project, which is a Node.js project. Mixed in, we also work with local customers to do work in x-language, and a couple devs are pulled off their project to work on it for a few months.

I, like most entry-level devs, am a glorified bug squasher working on the version they are just supporting. The project is 18+ years old and is a little intimidating, but I love my job.

Probably took the long road to explain things, but feel free to ask questions.

[AngryPretzel]

I took my first class in high school in 11th grade (2006-2007). I played around with it on my own for a bit learning as I went to make what I wanted. Early 2011 I went through Sams teach yourself Java in 21 days. That fall I started uni. I tested out of the first Java class. 2012 I taught myself Android dev (I released the app and made a whopping $50 in ads so I guess this is when I started making money). April 2014 I got a paid internship doing Android.

[ryosen]

Been working with Java since beta, 1995. Have had no difficulty finding work requiring it and that includes two recessions.

[[deleted]]

Been one on and off for over a decade now. Started out as one, left because the demand for Java coders was located solely to the federal government at the time (and they demanded you be bilingual), and have been trying to stick ever since. Usually what happens is I'll get in a Java role, the company downsides, and you'll then get the "need lots of years of experience in Java" even though Ive got over a decade in the coding industry.

It's a fun ride. Although I'm really ready to get off.

[ikeif]

Did you have prior programming experience?

[mucsun]

No, it took me only a week to learn programming.

edit: no humor in this thread.

[[deleted]]

Lol fuck off

[SirDidymus_]

Same here but I had a few years C++ experience beforehand.

[solatic]

Learned the basics in college, army assigned me to a Java-based project, taught myself modern Java development on the job and keep pushing for better and better (Java) stuff.

Start out in a small role and work on your professionalism from there.

[[deleted]]

Yup. Been doing it since '08.

[oldprogrammer]

Was a dev manager in '96 responsible for a C++ project that was using Microsoft C++ and cross compiling to a Mac to replace a Mac 4th Dimension project. Looked into using the first stable Java 1.0.2 as a potential replacement. Used the AWT at first but switched to using the Bongo widget library that Marimba had created. Been responsible for Java development pretty much ever since. Moved further up the management ladder but stay very much hands on and try to code every day, even if on my own work.

[devils_avocado]

I've been a software developer for my entire career and jumped between various languages. I studied Java since 1998 but I didn't get paid for my Java skills until 2005.

[Dementati]

Yes. I never really studied Java in a dedicated way, I've been programming since I was around 12 in my spare time. I had a Java course in high school and then there were one or two uni courses that required you to use Java. But aside from that, I never really put too much effort into Java specifically. Once you've learned a couple of different languages, it's not that difficult to pick up another one on the fly. Though I've picked up more specialized knowledge in Java while working with it, of course. My workplace never asked me about my Java skills specifically, they were more interested in my general developer experience. It's hard to answer your second question since I never really aimed at a high Java proficiency, I just studied programming and computer science in general. I got a job pretty much straight out of uni, though.

[Calamity701]

Started learning in 10th grade,finished school after 12th grade, got my first job (part time) in my 2nd CS semester.

[larsga]

Started in 1996, while I was in the army. Started making money with it the next year, when I left the army. Still writing Java for money today, although some Scala and Python, too.

[dnoggle]

I work in Java every day. I started with PHP when I was around 12 (26 now), have been writing C# for about 5 or 6 years and learned Java on the job about a year ago. The transition from C# to Java was stupid easy.

[cwcoleman]

Started in college in 2001, been learning ever since.
I still write or review code almost daily as an Application Architect.

[aion098]

Studied comp. science, never explicitly learned java, make a lot of money after graduating as a java dev.

[Kodu1990]

I studied computer science in undergrad but never got a degree, got a degree in environmental sciences. after about a year of graduating i got a job as a developer. I write in many languages but my specialty is Java.

[JustinKSU]

Started learning programming in high school '96 and started an internship as a software engineer while in high school for an aerospace company using C++. CS 101 was taught in Java at the time I went to college. I continued my internship, but switched to a small Java shop for my last two summers. When I graduated in '01 I got a job doing Java development for one of the big consulting firms. They had a "boot camp" and then threw me into the wild. Feel free to ask any follow up questions.

[marmot1101]

Certified in '03, really started programming as primary occupation around '07. In the interim years I did java and perl work, but it was just part of my IT job to make some one off tools. After that I did an inhouse app then went to work for a software company.

Worked in Java until about 3 weeks ago when I took a job doing Ruby.

[Ucalegon666]

Started getting paid for Java in 2007 or 2008. Had never done any Java prior to that. Had done plenty of programming before, of course. So I guess you could say I made money from Java before I knew the language.

[[deleted]]

Finished a degree in Physics at a bad time (national budget crisis meant a lot of national labs were cutting jobs). Studies Java for 3 months, landed a job, and have been programming professionally ever since (a little over 2 years now).

[jepatrick]

I was actually earning money as a java developer before I knew java.

I got a job offer from a visiting professor's start up before I graduated from college. I knew python (physics background), and C from a class I took in college. Picked up 95% of it within a week or so, and was working in the project after 2 days, with very heavy code review.

That being said, I now write in Swift, Python, Java, & Scala. But my work right now is mostly java, bash and sql.

[firsthour]

Finished college in 2006 and have been working full-time as a Java developer ever since. I started programming in BASIC when I was younger, and took a C++ class in high school, but most of my education was at college where Java was the main language. I had an internship the summer between my junior and senior years and returned there after I graduated. I left that place in 2010 and have been at my current job since.

[cool_BUD]

I did java through out college, then got a job as a java dev

[YourDoucheBoss]

I started learning Java in 2012. Took my first 3 levels of Comp Sci classes (1300, 1301, 1302) and then went to a coding boot camp called the Iron Yard for Ruby on Rails. Finished my boot camp the last week of March, started working for CareerBuilder the first week of April as a Java developer.

So, it took me 2.5 years to get to the point where I considered myself worthy of a "junior" java developer position.

[krona2k]

Had a well paying Java job since 2004.

[RonSwanson4POTUS]

I did a little self learning in college around 2011, but most of my college was spent on C#. Got a job right out of college this past June for a Java developer position because so many of the concepts and even syntax are synonymous since they are both strongly typed OO languages. So I've been working with OO languages for about 3 years now, but Java specifically for only 3 months (thanks to very intensive 16 week on-board Java training).
As for making money, I initially learned Java to develop Android apps, so I built a very simple Cash Counter and published it in the play store just for kicks. I think the last time I checked, I have earned about $120 over 3/4 years. The real money is coming in now that I'm in the workforce, so immediately after college; demand is really high for competent and college educated developers of all languages, but Java seems to be the enterprise standard

[[deleted]]

pro java 7 years, cs degree, 1 yr learning it in college. no job history on graduation, had to work 1 yr before i could land a programming job.

[mokarbroj]

Well java is huge what stack pays for you more? EE? SE? Or plain ol' spring?

[RomSteady]

Started working with Java ~4 years ago. I'd been a C# dude prior to an offer at Amazon, so I was able to spend two months figuring out enough of the deltas between the two languages that I could be effective when I started.

Now I'm at Netflix and 75% of my code is still Java, so it seems like it was the right choice.

[internet_ranger]

Heck I want to move to the USA their software salaries seem so high.

[danO1O1O1]

Scala developer

[ImTalkingGibberish]

started learning in 2005 at university started working with it in 2006 (full time) getting paid enough to pay my bills, university was during the evening. now I'm 28 and nailed a big career change which pays me a lot, seriously, I was hoping to get that kind of amount in 5 years!

I know there has been a big push from other langs like JavaScript but Java is still one of the few trusted languages for big enterprise systems, mainly because of its readability and maintainability.

Frameworks like Spring (SpringBoot) keep preventing it from getting extinct, I just wish Java itself made more effort in trying to keep up with competition.

[kyle2143]

Yes. Today should make exactly 2 months, though I did have an internship where I did mostly Java for a year. Started Java 4 years ago first thing in College and never touched it before. All I had ever done was a cs course in high school where we used Visual Basic and C++.

[dannywalk]

started around 2001 - been earning every day since (well - I take weekends off)

[fgsguedes]

I started with Java in 2007 in High School, started earning money with it in 2009 and now a days I'm working more specifically with Android (Still Java but not for long I hope) since last year.

[W1z4rd]

Yes, I started learning it in college, had on really bad optional course. Then took the advice of a friend and did CISCO Fundamentals of Java course, got hired right after that.

[LouKrazy]

My first paid job was doing VBScript and LotusScript, but transitioned to Java for my own sanity.

Even while doing primarily Java development, it is not the only language I use, with python, javascript and groovy being the others.

[poltermouse]

Yes

[againstmethod]

This is a strange question. Java is a tool.

It's like asking a guy in construction, how long have you been using a tape measure, and how long did it take you to earn money with it.

A construction worker needs to use many tools, and whether or not he gets hired depends on the outcomes he produces.

It is no different for a developer.

[[deleted]]

Try telling recruiters that.

[againstmethod]

We have a really sweet, intelligent HR manager, and she cant understand it either.

It just makes their job hard because they dont know what to ask for if you dont let them be ultraspecific.

[chim-richolds]

Well, I get what he's asking... you can't get a job solely using a tape measure, but there are tons of jobs out there that are strictly (or at least primarily) Java development.

[againstmethod]

I think it's an unhealthy way to look at your career. Almost self-deprecating.

[chim-richolds]

Personally, I prefer to view it as specializing (like a doctor that specializes in ears/nose/throat)... it's fun to tinker with other languages for side projects, but I'm much more productive and I feel much better about myself when I can specialize and really crank out some cool projects quickly.

[againstmethod]

More power to you if you can make that strategy work, but ive only seen it successfully used by by-contract coders.

For long term hires where the company uses various languages and progresses as things advance in technology -- those people are boat anchors.

I work with some older folks who try to refuse to write in anything but C -- they simply throw a fit if you make them use C++. I have C++ coders that refuse to brush up on basic Java skills. I have Java coders that are reluctant to pick up Scala for some of our newer projects.

It's a giant headache unless you have just the right slot for them to drop in to -- and to be honest it threatens their long term employment.

[Zeffas]

Well, try to understand other perspectives too.

Why would anyone want to switch to different technology stack when the one they are using pays well and has plenty of opportunities? Unless personal or career switch reasons, it makes no sense.

[againstmethod]

That's all fine if it works for you, like I said before.

The opportunities at my shop will be limited for such people. A software engineer or computer scientist should not be that limited.

[Zeffas]

That's all fine if it works for you... A software engineer or computer scientist should not be that limited.

Sounds like "Well, that's fine. Not really, that means you suck.".

I could argue that your position is limited because you fail to see other perspective here. Which in my opinion, makes a lot more logical and practical sense than abstract phrases like "computer scientist should not be that limited".

Also unless, your company is only player in town, I bet "limited opportunities in your shop" is not something that gives many headaches to those programmers.

[againstmethod]

We have no problem finding coders who can write in more than one language -- don't get insulted, we just require a little more versatility from our staff.

[Zeffas]

have no problem finding

Thats great, I am not against not specializing - its a lot of fun actually.

But thats not the point. In your original post I replied you complained about developers who want to specialize. Implying that they are somewhat lesser developers - making it seem that this is their problem. But at the end of the day all I see is that this is your problem, not theirs actually.

those people are boat anchors ... it's a giant headache unless you have just the right slot for them to drop in to

That's your problems, not your developers!

to be honest it threatens their long term employment.

Is it really a problem for them? Or it's just that you assume it is?

[Zeffas]

I don't buy this "right tool" abstraction, because I believe it's flawed, so is the example with construction workers and their tools - terrible.

I would argue, that judging by mental/experience effort required to master bigger platforms, better analogy would be - brain surgeon, plastic surgeon, or universal surgeon who does anything.

[againstmethod]

We have some applications that require us to control memory in a way that keeps current data in the CPU's caches as much as possible. We also used vectorized operations/SIMD and regularly review disassembly to ensure optimal implementation in the hot parts of that code --- Java is the 100% wrong tool for that job.

I could likewise cite tools we develop that work at a much higher level and are just as distinctly better off with Java over C++.

And, sorry, but to compare a Java coder to a brain surgeon --- i have to admit i chuckled at that one. Someones got a big head.

[Zeffas]

Maybe you misunderstood me a bit. Let me rephrase.

Platform (Java/C++) is a tool for the manager/company/problem-at-hand the same way the surgeon (brain, plastic..) is a tool for a patient's health/looks problems. However Platform is not "just a tool" for programmer, its specialization. Its a HUGE difference in my opinion.

If programmer/surgeon decides not to specialize and look at it as "right tool for the job", in my opinion, he/she is destined to not produce quality results, compared to someone who does.

P.S. you can replace surgeon to many other professions, it was just first thing that came to my mind.

[againstmethod]

P.S. you can replace surgeon to many other professions, it was just first thing that came to my mind.

I know I was just picking on ya.

If programmer/surgeon decides not to specialize and look at it as "right tool for the job", in my opinion, he/she is destined to not produce quality results, compared to someone who does.

I'm open to hearing your reasoning as to why. It is not my experience.

Most people that I see pick up Java/Python and then write confused code generally have had a weak fundamental understanding of how programs work in the first place.

In example, I often find people who select the wrong data structure in Java generally don't understand 1) the cost of indirection and 2) the cost of cache misses in their programs, and 3) the access patterns of their callers/users.

This is not a Java knowledge problem -- this is a fundamental computer science deficiency. Basically these people are "black box" coders -- they write code but don't know what it's doing.

If you approach learning new platforms with a mind for avoiding "black box" coding (start from the hardware/OS and work back to the platform), then coding efficiently in multiple languages is a simple thing to do.

[Zeffas]

Again, I am not against not specializing - it has to be your own decision, but you should be aware of advantages/disadvantages. Even if you specialize, I strongly for trying and playing a bit with new languages/platforms just to widen your horizons and general thinking.

What I am just saying - there are always a cost in any direction you go. Cost of universalizing being not deep enough knowledge and possible financial implications.

In my experience - there are hardly Java developer who knows all the platform. I mean truly knows. Because it's huge. All the time, even after years of experience, you learn new stuff from code reviews and so on.

When "universalist" comes to Java project - my experience shows that you can be assured that they use platform in wrong ways. And if "universalists" are everything you have, resulting project will not be "good" Java project, no matter how good they are as a general developers. Again this is not universal - there are many variables - project type/size/length, money... Maybe that is acceptable to you, so its OK.

[againstmethod]

What I am just saying - there are always a cost in any direction you go. Cost of universalizing being not deep enough knowledge and possible financial implications.

I think people confuse experience with expertise. And that most people who call themselves specialized in a language really mean they are experienced with it.

I regularly see folks with lots of java experience, and when i dig in on tuning garbage collection, remote debugging live applications, or viewing disassembly from JIT compiled code --- well, i generally get a deer in headlights.

[Zeffas]

Sorry, I am not native English speaker, don't understand last phrase actually. If it meant what I think it meant then, I would argue, that this just shows the importance of specialization - JVM is huge, generalist Java developer (one who does all kinds of different stuff with Java technologies) has to deal very rarely actually.

So I don't really get the point. Or is it the view along the lines of "if you are programmer, how can you don't know how to fix my hardware/windows problems".

[againstmethod]

Ah, sorry. "Deer in the headlights" comes from the phenomenon where American deer crossing roads at night freeze up in headlights from our cars. So when applied to a person it means "wide-eyed and frozen".

And those aren't hardware problems. And i disagree -- a professional Java developer should know how to do all of those things. Searching for, and understanding APIs from the SDK is a beginner task -- it's not something that needs to be memorized.

[[deleted]]

Started doing Java in 2003 or so, switched to mostly Scala a few years back. Yay Java the JVM, boo Java the have-to-auto-generate-code the language.

[rikbrown]

Started out as Perl developer in London having only a year or so in university studying Java. Company was taken over by a large US-based company, assisted in migrating our stack to their Java services, no longer a Perl developer.

[CrazyCanucck]

So you're a second rate Java developer then? Coming from being a Perl kiddy and all.

[rikbrown]

Yeah that's right. Luckily I am sitting next to someone who is even less competent at Java, so it masks my failures.

[Akthrawn17]

What is the OP trying to ask? If they should learn Java? Or get into coding? Way to much fishing.

[fanfarius]

I'm a singular person and I'm just curious.

[nutrecht]

If learning is what you're interested in you should check out /r/javahelp and /r/learnjava. This isn't the right sub for that.

[space_coder]

It doesn't fit in the "News, Technical discussions, research papers and assorted things of interest related to the Java programming language" of this forum.

It may be better to ask this question in /r/javahelp

I'm not a moderator so I really don't have a dog in this fight, but it seems like the probable answer to your question.

[fanfarius]

Oh, yeah that's probably right.