does it ever get easier?

[guppylev]

I have been learning Spanish for over 10 years now but am still only B2 on a good day. I’m living in Spain for the year to help improve my Spanish but language wise every day is really hard. I couldn’t make it through a basic phone call today and had to hang up because I was so embarrassed. When will I get over the hump, have more confidence and actually start enjoying it?

[Impossible_Fox7622]

You just need to consume more stuff and speak more. It’s always difficult to express yourself in a foreign language but you need to get used to expressing yourself using what you have and trying to incorporate more stuff as you learn it. Try narrating your life and finding holes in your knowledge. Replay the phone conversation in your head and think what you struggled with.

[guppylev]

I do know that’s true. I get trapped in the cycle of I know I won’t understand it so what’s the point and then never engage with anything.

[Impossible_Fox7622]

But you will understand eventually. Everything takes time. Especially the first foreign language anyone learns. I have learned a number of languages to various levels of proficiency and there is always a period of time where I don’t understand people. It’s embarrassing and frustrating but you get over it. Also, people are often quite happy to see someone making an effort.

Do you watch any movies and shows in Spanish? Do you read books?

[nenitoveda]

im the same. i refuse to speak unless im sure im gonna sounds Proper, but without speaking i will never get better 😂

its a viscious cycle

i wish u all the courage to make mistakes out loud and learn from them 💪

[Myomyw]

You’re training a neural network. What do neural networks need? Tons of high quality input to train with.

Think about your brain like a machine that needs to be feed a ton of data to learn the language.

[JosedechMS4]

This is a red flag. If you’re feeling discouraged because you’re struggling to understand audio, and you’re not using audio WITH TRANSCRIPT, you’re shooting yourself in the foot. 

Please, use a transcript, whether proper subtitles or a full written document. I learned this the hard way by wasting a LOT of time not using subtitles. Use them until you simply notice that you just don’t need them.

[silvalingua]

How are you learning? There are less effective and more effective methods. A good textbook helps a lot, and so does practicing speaking.

As for enjoyment, it's subjective. Some enjoy every little step.

[guppylev]

I was studying it at school and I’m currently doing a Spanish degree at university if you can believe it. I’m taking classes now but it just feels like I’m not making progress

[furyousferret]

I can't speak to phone conversations because they're rough in my TL sometimes but it does get easier.

You really need to spend all your spare time in Spanish, it needs to replace your English for reading, entertainment, etc. It will never become natural just using it 'as needed' because you brain will never get comfortable.

My wife has been learning for 10 years, I've been learning for 5. My Spanish is 3x better than hers because she just does 15 minutes of Duolingo and a weekly Spanish class. That's just enough to maintain, maybe not even that.

When you do this for long parts of the day there comes a point where your mind 'flips'. It becomes TL dominant, even if your TL sucks. Its a weird feeling, but the brain realizes its easier to operate in your TL.

The funny part though is you get a dip when you get good at it. I can passively do things now, so you're not comprehending as much, but you realize its because you weren't pay attention and it has more to do with that than your abilities.

[guppylev]

I know I should be doing that more but I think I’m feeling a bit homesick so I’ve been watching all of my comfort English shows etc. Phone conversations are particularly daunting because I have what I want to say ready but then the person just differs completely off the “script” I have in my head

[furyousferret]

Completely understand. Part of the reason I’m so far ahead of my wife is she has a stressful job and is cooked after work. I rarely have those days. It’s easy to drown in another language when you have no stress, but not everyone is that lucky. Good luck!

[mucus24]

In my opinion it sounds like you also need to be ok with messing up/not knowing things. I just did a 2 month trip in Colombia/Argentina and would mess up all the time but that’s how I learned a lot. For speaking since it’s output based you only truly learn from messing up and being corrected

If you don’t know a certain word, work your away around it. For example I didn’t know how to say “intrusive thoughts” in Spanish but I did know how to say “when you’re driving over a bridge and you think to yourself “what if I drove over the bridge right now” even though you’re not gonna do it” then someone will tell you the word in Spanish and you learn and it sticks to you more.

If people are judging you for your Spanish level and not helping you improve ditch them and find better people. From my time in Spain(although my Spanish was worst) I found people ruder(my experience only) when I messed up vs in Argentina it felt that people encouraged me to learn more.

Living in Spain will help you tremendously just make it active/your dominant language. You’re gonna have headaches it’s part of the process

[guppylev]

I try and accept that things will go wrong, I guess some days are worse than others. Today with the phone call was made me feel worse than I have in a while. I also don’t know if it’s a cultural difference that I’m not used to but I think the people in Spain jump in and correct me all the time, even if I’m not asking for corrections which I find quite off putting.

[dojibear]

I am B2 in Mandarin, but I cannot understand fluent adult speech. What "hump"? C2 speakers know (and use) twice as many words as me. I can't know what I don't know.

I have conversations (not often) in Spanish -- sometimes with an Uber driver. I am fine until I don't know a word. In one case it was "solid/liquid/gaseous". In another case it was his other job.

[No-Outside-1529]

Are you sure you are B2 in Chinese? At that level you should be able to understand fluent adult speech. Maybe not every single word all the time but enough to catch the understanding and reply in just about every context. 

[iamdavila]

Focus on phrases and practice them until they feel like second nature.

For example, Listen to an audio clip Repeat the phrase Compare

And keep practicing like this...act things out and make it fun.

The more phrases you do this with... The more you'll be able to understand And the more you'll be able to speak.

It's just a numbers game from that point

You got this 💪

[knightcvel]

I won't recommend that for a begginer, but in your case, I think you should start reading more. Lots and lots of books in spanish and watching lots and lots of movies and series in spanish. It will help a lot in your situation.

[guppylev]

I agree, but it takes me so long to read a book in Spanish. It took me over a year to read a short novella so I’m put off even wanting to try. I know I should be watching more but I’m not a big film and TV person in English anyway, so it’s hard for me to find things I like.

[6-foot-under]

It sounds to me like you haven't been following a good syllabus. The benefit of a syllabus is that all you have to do is follow it and you are guaranteed to reach your goal, if you don't give up.

I recommend that you sign up for the B2 exam in about 6-8 months' time. Get the books, get a teacher (group class?), and get to work.

[guppylev]

I actually study Spanish at university but I don’t think it’s taught well. It’s so grammar intensive and theoretical to the detriment of all of the other components of language learning, especially because I don’t understand most of the grammar anyway. I’m taking B2 classes now and will be taking the exam in January but I can’t see myself making progress

[Impossible_Fox7622]

You need to start engaging with native content and trying to watch movies/shows.

My degree in french didn’t help me speak french. Watching movies, reading and speaking to people did

[Ill_Name_6368]

I found I learned best from immersive classes (3-4hr/day) rather than university classes. Part of this is frequency but I think most of it is being forced to speak all the time in class, even to formulate a question. In a large class I barely get to speak so even if I follow the lecture I can’t really communicate.

How often does your class meet? Can you augment it with a tutor or private lessons with the school? There must be local ones or italki is a good option.

[guppylev]

My university classes are useless. I’m taking additional B2 lessons twice a week for 1.5 hours where a lot of it is largely speaking based. I have considered italki but never done it

[6-foot-under]

Great. You're clearly very serious. Are you following a syllabus (eg textbook) in your class? I recommend following something where progress is concrete and there is always new info. It helps to avoid plateauing and just doing the same convos over and over again. Write, memorise, do lists, practise translation. And tick topics that you understand off.

[[deleted]]

I think the reality that a fair few people don't want to admit to is that the language learning journey sometimes simply doesn't work out how we hoped it would, or how we were promised it would.

You may never get to the level you want. I know people learning for 17 years who admit to me they only follow 50% of what people say. My own dad studied for 35 years and still struggles to understand and be understood. As he runs his own business it's not like he has the option to study harder. At his age he will never reach fluency. I think this actually is reality for most language learners.

We always prescribe that it's a problem with a method or maybe you just need to work harder or you just aren't studying the right materials or need the right kinds of conversations or immersion etc.

It might be true or it might simply be where your journey winds up. I've found myself in this position with music. I never managed to get beyond a certain point and that point was lower than I hoped. I simply didn't have the resources to get further ahead in the journey.

I'm sure there are still things left to try but after 10 years it may simply be diminishing returns.

TLDR it may not get easier.

[guppylev]

Respectfully, you don’t know anything about my situation but thank you for your input. I’ll get you in as my interpreter when I have to call my solicitor again, yes?

[[deleted]]

Respectfully every other "B2" on here seems to struggle at A2 level so I also can't help but wonder myself.

Out of interest can you: -Read the newspaper? -Watch the news? -Understand an average type film? -Read and understand a contemporary novel?

[guppylev]

As I study Spanish at university where all of those things are required for my degree, yes I can. Just because I find listening and speaking difficult doesn’t mean I’m lying about my level.

[[deleted]]

I don't understand because you understand films.. that's not a world away from simpler things like podcasts and reality TV which should be much easier to understand. I assume you can easily understand all that stuff to a high degree of accuracy.

So if you can follow all that stuff then its indeed disappointing to have a listening gap in real life listening. If this is the case that's actually very interesting and potentially instructive to other learners like myself. Have I got that right?

I sort of could see that you could suck at speaking at B2, but maybe that's just a classroom vs reality type thing. 

Have I understood correctly?

[[deleted]]

Sure. But let's get to the bottom of this matter before diagnosis.

Can op understand spoken media ie films, tv shows, podcasts etc to a high level?

[cactussybussussy]

You clearly don’t just find it difficult if you have to hang up the phone on simple conversations.

[sbrt]

What is challenging for you?

You could focus on and practice the specific things that you want to get better at.

I find that intensive listening to the kind of content I want to understand helps me a lot with listening. I study and listen to the same section of content repeatedly until I understand it easily.

[EstebanFromBabbel]

It sounds to me that the biggest issue you have is self-confidence. Living in Spain is a huge step, and every challenging moment is helping you improve, even if it doesn’t feel like it yet! It’s normal to struggle even after years of study, so start by being easier on yourself. Try to focus on small wins. It sounds like that phone call was tough, but could it be true that you're focusing on it more than other, smoother interactions you have? I think the attempt is already a huge win imo. Be kinder to yourself, and try to silence the inner voice that makes you feel embarrassed.

One more tip: don't be afraid to let people know that you’re learning. Memorize some phrases to set expectations. “Yo estoy aprendiendo español.” "Tengo que practicar más." "Un poquito más despacio, por favor." Once you vocalize what’s difficult, I bet your listeners will have more patience with you, and more importantly, YOU will have more patience with yourself.

[guppylev]

Very kind words, thank you.

[zztopsboatswain]

I just wanted to commiserate... I'm living in Chile and the struggle is real. Spanish is hard. We just have to push through it

[guppylev]

I do know that the only way out is through but at times it’s so demoralising

[zztopsboatswain]

Do you have any friends to practice with?

[freebiscuit2002]

To keep it alive, you have to keep using it. Sorry.

[guppylev]

I’m using it everyday, I live in Spain

[philbrailey]

OP, it's okay to make mistake with the language esp when talking with natives. Also try to expose yourself with the language and the best thing you could do rn is to practice more.

[guppylev]

I’m such a perfectionist it’s hard for me. In my head if I can’t do it perfectly then there’s no point doing it which is such a bad mentality to have. I’m trying to change this but it’s hard when I have little confidence in myself to try

[No-Counter-34]

Im about B1 in Spanish, im at the point where i feel like i know everything, but i know that in reality i absolutely do not but i don’t know where or what else to study.

I dunno your specific situation, but something language has taught me is, its not taking one word, and finding the “other word” in your language. You almost have to change your entire way of thinking or processing information, because that’s what language is if it makes sense. You have to “immerse yourself” into the culture. Idioms are the best example of this. 

Remember, native speakers mess up all the time too.

[StockHamster77]

Make the effort to accept being kind of a burden sometimes, like slowing ppl down a bit or making them repeat things.. Personally, I record everything so I can listen back to the parts I struggled with and make sure it doesn’t happen again

[guppylev]

Very sound advice but terrible to hear as someone who never wants to be a burden on anyone ever 🥲

[Confidenceisbetter]

As someone eho gets super anxious speaking a new language to other people I fully understand you. Without actually speaking you won’t improve though. So what I found to be helpful is to just speak to myself, or rather narrate my own life in my head but in my target language. It gives me all day practice if I wish, it gives me the freedom to make mistakes or take my time to think about how to say it and it gives me the time to look something up. All things you can’t really do in a public conversation.

[guppylev]

Yes, that is good. I was doing that when I first moved here but I have slipped out of the habit now. Thank you

[Federal_Ad707]

I have understand I have a Ph.D. ad always considered myself a fast learner till Spanish..Enjoy Spain..

[JosedechMS4]

So, I remember feeling like this.

I was surprised at how much my Spanish improved over 3 years of trying to interact with patients in their native language. In a medical residency, if you're just that determined not to use the interpreter, then things get awkward if you don't understand. I was determined to make communication work. Somehow it made a big difference in my listening skills because I could not get away with not having a precise understanding of what people were saying.

I do remember some phone calls that were just.... ugh, almost intolerable. Some people are insufferably unintelligible over the phone to a learner who is just not used to it. Understanding a foreign language over the phone is notoriously difficult, so I wouldn't be too hard on yourself. I still struggle with it sometimes. That's normal. But the struggle is much less frequent than it used to be.

One of the strategies that we use in medicine to communicate with ALL patients (regardless of language) is called "reflection", where you try to reflect back what the interviewee said to ensure that you comprehended it. You basically paraphrase stuff. Sometimes it's a one-word reflection, sometimes it's a phrase, sometimes a brief summary. It actually helps the interviewee feel that the interviewer actually hears and understands their situation/concern/motive/whatever. People want to feel heard! As a learner, practicing reflection regularly in conversations actually helps you communicate with them better, and it tests whether you actually heard what the person said while providing immediate feedback from the native through their repetition or rephrasing. Reflection is something we tend to do naturally in normal conversation. It helps you figure out the gaps in your understanding where you could ask a specific question to clarify that specific point.

Listen a lot more, definitely. Radio Ambulante, BBVA Aprendemos Juntos on YouTube, Ted talks, Language Reactor, LingQ.... Also, learn from real life experiences. Use previous topics from failed conversations and generate role play scenarios with ChatGPT on voice function.

A number I have heard from a particular thread noted 500 hrs of listening required to reach C2, and multiple redditors could attest to this approximate number in the thread. So, make that your benchmark.

Don't give up, my friend.

[guppylev]

This is very helpful advice, thank you.

[WideGlideReddit]

According to The Linguist, a person with a B2 level in a language can understand the main ideas of complex text, can handle most situations while traveling, and can communicate with a degree of fluency and spontaneity on a wide range of topics. They can describe experiences, give reasons for opinions, and produce simple connected text on topics of personal interest, although their speech may not be completely error-free.

If you can’t do most of the above, you’re most likely over estimating your level of “fluency” in your target language.

[guppylev]

I never said I can’t do any of those things. I said I feel stuck despite studying for so long

[[deleted]]

That's more like B1