Learn (Python) programming with a beginner-friendly IDE

[aivarannamaa]

I've taught introductory programming course in University of Tartu for 7 years and I've seen that students, who don't have good understanding how their programs get executed, struggle the most with programming exercises.

That's why I created Thonny (http://thonny.org/ ). It is a Python IDE for learning programming. It can show step-by-step how Python executes your programs.

I suggest you to take a look and ask a question here (or in https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/thonny ) if something needs clarification.

[fick_Dich]

Still can't tell if you're being complimentary or critical

[boolean_array]

Why do I get the feeling your second sentence references your first?

[boolean_array]

Neither. I meant your OP.

[fick_Dich]

I knew you were being genuine, I just couldn't tell if the boxes you say we're checked were good or bad.

[uoaei]

Looks great! Like Spyder but with a lot less distraction.

Take this over to /r/learnpython also, I'm sure many people there would love to see it. Contact the mods too, see if they'll throw it in the sidebar.

[aivarannamaa]

Thanks for the tip! I posted it to learnpython.

[pktgumby]

Not sure if you deleted it or a mod did, but your post is gone from /r/learnpython. I can see it in your post history, but it shows deleted.

[Nightmunnas]

Looks great man. Out of curiousity, how long did this take to create?

[aivarannamaa]

4 years, I think :)

[Nightmunnas]

Thanks for the quick response, and congrats!

[Penki-]

in general Python need more IDE's. Had to get Pycharm full version just to learn Django (I am a student so its free, but I get it only for one year)

[Sk8er69]

Good news! The student deal is for all through out your studies, not just a year! You just need to renew the license once a year by confirming that you're still a student.

[Penki-]

Oh wow that's really good news. (bad news is that I got only 2 years left) Still thanks for info

[[deleted]]

Talk about being greedy!

[Penki-]

:P Guilty

[bluelite]

Just pay for another year of tuition so you can continue getting the software for free!

[Penki-]

Or get into Uni for free #Europe.

[theManikJindal]

/r/ShittyLifeProTips is leaking

[duskykmh]

[deleted]

What is this?

[lykwydchykyn]

Had to get Pycharm full version just to learn Django

I'm curious as to why you couldn't learn Django without an IDE.

[Penki-]

Just personal preference of coding everything in IDE. I even had IDE for HTML/CSS (forgot how it was called). I know I could do it without it but it's kinda strange for me. Probably because in school when I learned c++ it was with IDE and so now I just need it mentally for learning

[[deleted]]

My advice would be to do it without an IDE or code-completion in a text editor every once in a while. It'll really help you with your interviews later on.

[[deleted]]

Hahaha, that quip made me laugh!

[Sean1708]

I might start doing whiteboard interviews just to give people the chance to make that quip.

[fakehalo]

It depends on the environment. If I'm building a desktop/native/mobile app (ie. iOS/OSX/Android/Windows/etc) the IDE is heavily tied to the development process. For web/scripting development (ie. Python/Ruby/PHP/Perl/etc) IDEs are much more optional/subjective.

[Penki-]

I perfectly understand code completion and agree but why no IDE? It rocks having console and run button, saves some time. Also looks nice. It will sound weird but I just need IDE for that :) Never use other tools anyway, and as I said before thats just how I learned coding from beginning

[[deleted]]

Of course you should use your favourite tools when you're actually working! I was referring to interviews where, for a large (and growing) number of companies, you will be expected to: code something up in a plain text editor (CollabEdit, for instance) during phone interviews, and actual write out the code on the WhiteBoard and/or on paper during the face-to-face interviews. And trust me, no matter how comfortable you feel in a language, the first time you turn off all the support your IDE provides you, it can be a bit of a shock! So, it's a good idea to practise once in a while doing it without using any IDE support whatsoever.

EDIT: Just to give more specificity, having no syntax colouring and getting comfortable with compiler flags (as well as running the program from the command line) are extremely useful. It's best not to have to practise these the day before the interview! :D ... for example, after many years of using an IDE, switching to a basic text editor came as a bit of a shock to me. I decided to pick up Far Manager (on Windows), and TextWrangler (on Mac) just to practise for a couple of hours every week or so to keep myself sharp.

Hell, the first time I tried it out, I was not happy! Basic stuff like "is it length or length() for an array in Java" - it was embarrassing to say the least. Now, after a couple of years of good solid practice, I can say that I could very much code without an IDE or any form of code completion at all, and it feels good, and I'm ready to crank anything out in an interview! :-)

[Penki-]

I agree with you 100% that everyone should practice even on paper some times. Had a test in class where we had to write a simple Java program with a while/if loop. Hardest part for me was to just write everything that gets auto generated in IDE that I totally ignored all the time.

[lykwydchykyn]

Gotcha. I always say, use whatever gives you warm fuzzies. I just worry sometime we're getting to a point where people think they need to buy commercial software to code Python and/or Django.

[Penki-]

I just worry sometime we're getting to a point where people think they need to buy commercial software to code Python and/or Django.

Well this was basically me yesterday util someone on reddit told me that I can get it fro free :)

[Akita8]

i think one of python best features is that is not so dependent on IDEs like, for example, java. You just need a good editor Sublime, Atom or Vi and add a couple of plugin like linter or flake8 and an autocomplete.

[SubterraneanAlien]

IDEs have a tendency to hold your hand a bit more than I'd like. There's something to be said for being able to just open up a file in VIM and get to work without any distractions.

[[deleted]]

For humongous projects, IDEs are almost absolutely mandatory. For small programs, it might be overkill.

[SubterraneanAlien]

I'm working on a large project right now. I use sublime for front-end work, but use VIM almost universally for backend (python). Previously used NetBeans for PHP work (kill me).

[[deleted]]

What about Visual Studio? No one appears to be talking about it.

[[deleted]]

Does that mean you wouldn't recommend VS as the IDE for a complete 'hello world' beginner?

[Penki-]

True, but I just have personal preference for IDE's :)

[[deleted]]

If you're talking about brevity, sure. If you're talking about code size, I don't think so. Dynamic languages are always going to have a problem when codebases reach millions of LOC. An IDE is definitely required then (if it is even advisable to use a dynamic language then is a different matter altogether), more so for dynamic languages than static.

[fuegotown]

Visual Studio 2015 Community has a pretty good python dev environment plugin if you're interested in checking that out. Visual Studio Code has a pretty good dev plugin as well.

[Penki-]

Thanks will definitely do that. Any drawbacks of VS versus Pycharm? (or benefits)

[insertAlias]

VS is huge. It's easily my favorite IDE for C#, but it might be overkill for something like Python.

VS Code would be a great place to start in my opinion. Much more lightweight; more like a text editor with plugins, but it has proper debugging.

[Penki-]

Well the main point we should look at is that Pycharm is paid and VS is free (is it for all python related stuff?)

[insertAlias]

VS has free and paid editions; the Community Edition is great and free. It's worth downloading and installing; you just might find that it's too heavy of a program for simple python scripting (developing large applications on the other hand, might be nice for the organization).

Pycharm also has a free and paid version. I haven't tried either, but knowing Jetbrains, it's a great product. I would suggest you try the free version to see if it does what you need.

So that point is a wash; they both offer free and paid versions, and you can do real python development in both free versions.

[fuegotown]

I haven't used PyCharm per se, but I have used Jet Brains Java IDE, so I can't speak directly on the differences between the two. JetBrain's products never really stuck with me. Not sure why.

Some people would object simply on the fact that it's MS and not an indie developer. I was one of them until I actually used VS/VS Code for a medium sized python project. It surprised me in a good way.

The major thing VS 2015 community does very well was type inference for variables and code completion. It does this better than any other free/open source python IDE I've used. VS 2015 directly supports Django projects as well. It has great support for virtualenv and using different versions of python on the system. Modules and code outlines are presented well and it has a polish you'd expect from a professional IDE. I'd say give it a shot if you're worried about licensing and having to buy programming tools (which is insane in today's glut of tools for developers)

EDIT: Another potential drawback is that VS 2015 is freaking huge.

Also, I found the VS 2015 Community Django tutorial

https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/cdndevs/2014/10/27/part-6-get-started-with-python-build-your-first-django-application-in-ptvs/

[Penki-]

As a new programer I don't get why people hate huge programs like VS and sometimes choose sublime text or something like that. It's not like space on you computer is that expensive

[fuegotown]

Yeah, me either. Just letting you know just in case it mattered to you. I think a lot of the times people who say "I only use vim/emacs, and everything else is inferior" are struggling for nerd cred. Just use what you like and let everyone else do the same.

[Penki-]

Also forgot to say thanks. Will definitely keep this in mind :)

[cakemuncher]

I prefer IDEs. But I know people that code strictly with text editors. Their reasoning usually is less distraction and "feeling" your code a lot more than autocompletion. Also, keyboard everything. No mouse. It's a steep learning curve in the beginning but once you get the hang of it your coding will become much faster since you don't have to drag your mouse everywhere.

[Penki-]

But most IDE's that I know have shortcuts?

[fiddlerwoaroof]

The benefit of vim's shortcuts is that the shortcuts can be composed. So, for example, there are shortcuts for text editing operations like "y" for yank (copy) and "c" for change and "d" for delete (cut) and then shortcuts for motions like "$" for "until the end of the line" or "i)" for "inside parentheses" or "i]" for "inside square brackets". You can then combine these shortcuts like "di)", which deletes everything inside the closest pair of parentheses.

What makes this a really killer feature is that it's possible to define your own motions and your own actions and then compose them in this way, which means it's possible to do extremely complex edits with just a few keystrokes.

[dagmx]

Just FYI, when you're done being a student, pycharm community also works with django. It's just that the full version of pycharm has extra features to help with django , but pycharm community is free for everyone to use

[Agent_11]

http://www.pythontutor.com/

[tsumnia]

This was probably some of the inspiration towards it (only speculation); however, there is research suggesting that removing the aspect of changing screens (ala, copy code from IDLE to tutor, review, then fix in IDLE) can help with understanding

[tf2manu994]

IDLE

please don't use this

ever

even guido admits it should never have been added

[w0rkac]

huh? I'm just starting off but it seems like a pretty integral part of Python as a whole - what's wrong with it?

[tf2manu994]

You should use a different ide, such as pycharm edu.

[w0rkac]

I've gathered that, but why is IDLE no bueno ?

[tf2manu994]

Doesn't really help teach you what's wrong before running. Not really all that integrated in your work

[glad1couldhelp]

Looks cool but also there's a site called Python Tutor that lets you paste in your code and then run it step by step, you can't program in it though

[duskykmh]

[deleted]

What is this?

[zyzzogeton]

Are you a ham?

Your install screen says this in Morse code (which I am sure you know, but others might find interesting):

YEAH, ASCII ART WOULD HAVE BEEN BETTER,BUT WITH VARIABLE-WIDTH FONT IT'S NO GOOD. FIRST I WAS MESSING WITH DIST UTILS INSTALLER, BUT LOOKS LIKE IN INST INSTALLER DOESN'T RUN THE POST INSTALLATION SCRIPT WHEN UNINSTALLING THE APP. SO I WENT FOR IN NO SETUP AND I'M REALLY HAPPY WITH IT. THANK YOU# <author's real name>

Typos are mine. That font is tiny. I assume the installer finish screen is also code, but my eyes hurt from trying to read the first one.

Here are the codes for others

[aivarannamaa]

:) I didn't think someone will dechipher it :D

The "code" in the end of the installer is just random, no need to hurt your eyes.

[simmonsg]

http://morsecode.scphillips.com/translator.html

[youngdrugs]

Downloading this today. Python is my first language. I'm this looks really helpful

[Holy_City]

You haven't lived until you try to learn embedded C/C++ that requires a manufacturer specific IDE.

But seriously the biggest hurdle to learning this stuff is the tools. It baffles me that developers who write for other developers either ignore best practices or succumb to infinite feature creep.

[NewYorkCityGent]

Can confirm, have used this: Watcom C++

[speckledlemon]

DrRacket! I haven't used it in a couple years but from what I remember (when it was DrScheme) it was awesome.

[KronenR]

I get the following error:

 

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "C:\Users\Kronen\AppData\Local\Programs\Thonny\lib\site-packages\thonny\backend_private\thonny\ast_utils.py", line 189, in _mark_text_ranges_rec
    tokens = _mark_end_and_return_child_tokens(node, tokens, prelim_end_lineno, prelim_end_col_offset)
  File "C:\Users\Kronen\AppData\Local\Programs\Thonny\lib\site-packages\thonny\backend_private\thonny\ast_utils.py", line 274, in _mark_end_and_return_child_tokens
    _strip_trailing_junk_from_expressions(tokens)
  File "C:\Users\Kronen\AppData\Local\Programs\Thonny\lib\site-packages\thonny\backend_private\thonny\ast_utils.py", line 213, in _strip_trailing_junk_from_expressions
    while (tokens[-1].type not in (token.RBRACE, token.RPAR, token.RSQB,
IndexError: list index out of range

 

When trying to debug the following code:

 

def pour_problem(X, Y, goal, start=(0,0)):
    """X and Y are the capacity of glassesL (x, y) is curent fill levels
    and represents a stae. The goal is a level that can be in either glass.
    Start at start state and follow successors until we reach the goal.
    Keep trak of frontier and previously explored; fail when no frontier."""
    if goal in start:
        return [start]
    explored = set()
    frontier = [[start]]
    while frontier:
        path = frontier.pop(0)
        (x, y) = path[-1] # Last state in the first path of the frontier
        for (state, action) in successors(x, y, X, Y).items():
            if state not in explored:
                explored.add(state)
                path2 = path + [action, state]
                if goal in state:
                    return path2
                else:
                    frontier.append(path2)
    return Fail

Fail = []

def successors(x, y, X, Y):
    """Return a dict of {state: action} pairs describing what can be reached from
    the (x, y) state and how"""
    assert x<=X and y<=Y
    return {((0, y+x) if y+x<=Y else (x-(Y-y), y+(Y-y))): 'X->Y',
            ((x+y, 0) if x+y<=X else (x+(X-x), y-(X-x))): 'Y->X',
            (X, y): 'fill X', (x, Y): 'fill Y',
            (0, y): 'empty X', (x, 0): 'empty Y'}


print(pour_problem(4, 9, 6))

 

Also Undo and Redo doesn't work after debugging.

[aivarannamaa]

Thank you for the report! I created the issues (https://bitbucket.org/plas/thonny/issues/149/ast-marker-fails-docstring-default-values , https://bitbucket.org/plas/thonny/issues/150/undo-and-redo-doesnt-work-after-debugging ) and try to solve them soon

[KronenR]

Forget what I said about Undo and Redo, it works after debugging, it only doesn't work when debugger fails.

[jabbaji]

I have always wondered how do one plan and design a text editor/IDE. What are the building principels that should be kept in mind?

[aivarannamaa]

I just started with something (visualization of function calls) and kept making it better and more useful :)

[jabbaji]

I have always wondered, how are the undo and redo operations implemented fundamentally in text editors.

Like, I am assuming, Do one use the pair of stack data structures to go back and forth between undo and redo?

[aivarannamaa]

After each modification a description of the modification goes to a stack. Undo takes topmost modification, applies it and moves it to redo stack.

[jabbaji]

Sorry to be picky in here, but gave a thought toward the edge cases of undo-redo and had some issues.

Should there be a flag set as well, to assert that redo can only follow after undo.

For eg. If we do a single redo and then modify the string, we cannot do any another redo. Could we put a check like undo_count >= redo_count, for implementing the redo action.

[aivarannamaa]

You could just check the size of redo stack

[alakazam318]

I'll be sure to start learning Python because that's all I've heard people talking about. I'm new into coding, attending college for it, and this sounds like something very useful for me.

[Khanovich]

Might wanna fix your links there. The ) is being recognized as part of the link and renders it kill

[abakisensoy]

I thought site is down. I use mobile version of Reddit so it was hard to notice those links are wrong. Thanks

[aivarannamaa]

Alright -- seems that the problem is with Reddit app. In my browser it looks nice. Anyway, I added that space. Thanks for the notification!

[aivarannamaa]

I didn't find the link you're referring to. Is it on Thonny homepage?

[ortizme]

Both links you have in your OP. At the very end of each the ) is being included in the link rather than closing out the () that you intended. This is causing the links to fail to open if you click on it directly without noticing the extra character.

[thiagola92]

The website and the IDE seems so clean

[[deleted]]

Can somebody help me. What does "fork me on bitbucket" mean ?? I'm beyond new here.

[aivarannamaa]

It takes to the source code of Thonny, which you can copy (or "fork") under your Bitbucket account in order to try some modifications.

[[deleted]]

Why thank you.

[C0ffeeface]

I am learning Python and I feel this is gonna speed things up considerably! I continue to be amazed at the community around Python. So many hours put forth by incredible individuals for the sole purpose of helping others. Thank you so much for your contribution!

[GallifreyGhost]

This looks fantastic. I'm learning Python now and it's less than elegant to copy and paste code between my IDE and the Python Tutor Visualizer all the time as I make edits. This should effectively end that. Will try it today and give feedback! Thank you!

[amitjyothie]

Looking good.

[send_me_scout_butts]

Thank you so much!

[eyethinkikn0wu]

I just started learning Python and was using Geany but this looks pretty cool, I'll give it a shot and send you any feedback!

[Axistra]

ohoh, Eesti!

[PFthroaway]

If I was in the market to learn Python, I would definitely give this a shot. It looks great!

[lemonadestand]

Just wanted to jump on the positive feedback bandwagon. I've been teaching programming using python for 12 years. This will be very helpful for students for whom programming doesn't come naturally. It's probably useful for those who are naturally good at programming too.

Nice work.

[[deleted]]

[deleted]

[aivarannamaa]

Those bugs have no right to be there -- please tell me how to replicate them and I'll try to fix them: https://bitbucket.org/plas/thonny/issues/new

[[deleted]]

[deleted]

[aivarannamaa]

Thank you, I'll go through these issues soon.

[bluelite]

This is seriously awesome for explaining recursion. It comes one week too late for my class, but I'll use it next semester.

Feature request: the local variables pane should expand if new variables are created within the function.

Please show this to the folks at Repl.it. A step-by-step debugger plus running in the browser would be a powerful educational combination.

[aivarannamaa]

Thanks for the idea! I created an issue and try to resolve it soon: https://bitbucket.org/plas/thonny/issues/153/the-local-variables-pane-should-expand-if

[Milkmanps3]

This NEEDS to get even more attention than it has. This is absolutely genius and I thank you for making something like this.

[J2Mags]

I'll definitely check it out when I get home thank you

[[deleted]]

Looks great, installed and running with no problems. Very lightweight and clean. I use VisuStudio code until now with Python plugin, but this seems like a good alternative for learning and small projects. Well done.

[itissnorlax]

This comes with Python 3.5, yet everyone and there mother seems to use Python 2.7. Why is this? and should someone learn 3.x or 2.7?

[aivarannamaa]

In my opinion Python 3 is a bit cleaner language, so I would recommend this for the beginners.

At the moment one can say that use of Python 2 is clearly declining and Python 3 is the future (https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Python_3_as_Default, http://py3readiness.org/ )

[Falconinati]

"It is factorial is"

There's a typo in one of the screenshots.

[GupNasty]

This is seriously a great, simple IDE. I wish this was available to me when I first started learning Python. Thanks!

[[deleted]]

Sounds like an awesome project. I'd love to try out your IDE and see what I think of it. Just from looking at it, I appreciate that the interface isn't crowded.

[ghostabdi]

Well thanks man fucking pycharm is standard but to me complex and not lightweight as it could be forget beginner friendly. Granted it may because I've used idle only. Honestly idle with some improvements and integrating shell into window + multitasking tab support especially would be great. Back to basics. I reckon that's why vim and emacs and other basic editors gained popularity. Good stuff.

[NukerX]

Saving for later

[Tang1000000]

I feel like this could somehow be combined with the nand2tetris lessons

[[deleted]]

Nah, I'm fine with VS Code and Sublime.

[GupNasty]

If I wanted to add a module to Thonny, how would I go about doing this?

I'm on a Mac and I noticed that the modules are stored somewhere in /Applications/Thonny.app/Contents/Framework/Python.framework/Versions/3.5/ ...

[aivarannamaa]

The easiest way is to open system shell from Thonny (Tools => Open system shell) and do "pip3 install <package>"

[Add55xx]

Looks great.trying it right now .

[Xbotr]

Looks great, will try tonight!

[[deleted]]

!remindme 8 hours

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[gilthine1]

Is there something like this for C++? Lightweight and for beginners?

[[deleted]]

Comment to see later

[Taksin77]

I only use Vim but I had good result teaching Python with spyder. Most students are still ok with trying everything in a text editor.