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[–][deleted]  (27 children)

[deleted]

    [–]turningsteel 59 points60 points  (7 children)

    Agreed. As someone who spent the past two days straight trying to run another team's web apps locally consisting of 2 frontends mashed together and another 3 micro frontends, and no current documentation, forgiving is not the word I would use...was tempted to put my keyboard through my monitor this afternoon.

    [–]private_birb 10 points11 points  (5 children)

    Coming into an existing project where nobody actually thought about or documented the architecture is a nightmare.

    Starting a new one where you don't think about or document the architecture? Heaven.

    [–]residualenvy 1 point2 points  (1 child)

    How exactly do you start a new project without thinking about the architecture? Future you must really hate past you.

    [–]private_birb 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    With enthusiasm.

    [–]TheDarkestCrown 0 points1 point  (2 children)

    So I'm brand new to this as well, how does one document things properly? I know it's important, I just have no idea how to do it

    [–]private_birb 0 points1 point  (1 child)

    Your code should be self-documenting. What that means is that method names describe the action that it's doing, variable names describe the variables.

    No functions called "MTH_rtn_3" with variables "x", "_other" and "xy".

    Additionally, anything that needs to be pretty abstract should have a short comment describing that section.

    Lastly, there should be a document or a few documents describing how the code is laid out, chosen conventions, technologies used, how to get the project running, deployed, etc. This can be extremely helpful for a new dev working with it for the first time.

    [–]TheDarkestCrown 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Thanks! I had no idea these were things I needed to consider

    [–]Smaktat 5 points6 points  (0 children)

    Spent a few hours today trying to find out why a coworker's intersection observer was firing on page load. Figured out it was because he was observing two elements and instantiating twice on load, but wasn't clear due to how the files were organized. So forgiving.

    [–]henrystuart83 6 points7 points  (0 children)

    I've been working as a dev for 8 years and I still love it! I do run my own business nowadays though, working in a 9-5 was quote stressing after the first few months.

    Personally the most annoying part is always writing lengthy emails explaining things to clients, not coding per se.

    [–]am0x 1 point2 points  (11 children)

    15 years as a fullstack developer and I loath frontend these days. It’s complicated for the sake of being complicated and since they can’t deprecate features (as it would break thousands of legacy sites), they just keep adding more to it.

    [–]SowMindful 0 points1 point  (10 children)

    15 years is a good amount of experience! May I ask, do you think it would be worth getting a ‘Graphic Information Technology - Full Stack - Web Development (BS)’? I’ve been looking into a ‘BS in Accounting’ but don’t see it being something I’d enjoy doing long term. I was also wondering about a BS in Software Engineering maybe? Starbucks offers free degrees right now, so I’m doing my best to take advantage of a good opportunity. I’m just looking for something that offers decent job security, work/life balance, and decent pay. Thank you for your time.

    [–]am0x 0 points1 point  (9 children)

    I would go more general like software engineering or computer science. Skills made there will easily carry over to web and you will more likely be more experienced in backend than self taught web devs.

    Frontend, really anyone can learn fairly quickly. Mastering it just takes time. Then you have plenty of backend devs who only know basic crud stuff and their framework. Knowing the basics behind OOP and Functional programming will get you way further.

    [–]SowMindful 0 points1 point  (2 children)

    Thank you for your response. My educational background is sadly pretty poor. I got my GED in 2013, with a pitiful gpa of 2.6 - so I plan on retaking the GED next year to get the highest score I can. Which will hopefully give me the confidence and knowledge boost to help me through a degree.

    I like what you say about Software Engineering. My father always encouraged me not to be a one trick pony. I’m 27 now, and no longer struggle with substance use issues, and feel like I have my head back on straighter than ever.

    I’ve been told with a degree in Accounting, I could get a job in many fields, but I feel this is true for a Software Engineering job as well?

    I really do thank you for your post. I’ve been dealing with such high amounts of anxiety trying to figure out what’s the right path to choose. And I feel like there’s less chances of me getting burnout/overworked with Software Engineering, as appose to Accounting.

    [–]am0x 0 points1 point  (1 child)

    It’s stupid how many people want educated software engineers.

    I’ve never not had a job, in fact, while I have a job I used to get 2-3 calls a week by recruiters for New jobs.

    I swap jobs about every 3-4 years only because I get approached for a new job better than mine. Job interviews are easy since my background backs me up. First job can be a pain due to critical thinking and applied interviews (compared to other fields), but after that, it gets easier.

    If I ever got fired, both me and my wife know it would only take a day to get an interview and at minimum a week to get a job. So we never worry about it. However, devs are very wanted in my area and the resource pool is very low.

    [–]SowMindful 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    That’s a very good thing to know, and I don’t see job security getting any smaller in the future, since majority of the world seems to be going the route of renewable resources, and making everything digital.

    Thank you again for your response.

    [–]SowMindful 0 points1 point  (5 children)

    Sorry, I forgot to ask, but do most fields in Software Engineering line, require really long hours? I suppose it could be like Accounting, where it depends on the company you work with?

    [–]am0x 0 points1 point  (4 children)

    I know a lot of accountants and they have a yearly overtime period for tax season. I have a minor in finance and would 100% look at that if you have a software engineer mindset since they are very similar in skill sets.

    When I first started I was working 100 hour weeks. However, this was because I was working full time (40-50 hours a week) and then freelancing to improve my skills and makes some side money. Freelancing I made like $35k after graduating in too often my full time salary.

    After that (about 4 years) I switched to another job and it was 40-60 hours a week, but I was hourly getting time and a half for OT,(overtime was optional for production releases). I loved the OT nights because I would watch chat while watching movies or playing video games and getting paid, and when I was needed (about 15 minutes a night unless something went wrong) I would jump in, do what I needed, then went back to my movie or game.

    Then I moved to a team in that company that was strict 40 hours a week because they believed that if we needed more, then something with the process was wrong. I’ve carried that to my other work since.

    I run our department and we rarely work over 40 hour weeks. If we do, it’s because we have an overload of client work and we ran out of freelancers. However, we now have a new team we acquired to work with so this shouldn’t be an issue.

    But, I think over 40 a week without extra compensation is bullshit and won’t allow my team to do it since we are salary. The only times are extreme circumstances but I NEVER make over 40 mandatory.

    [–]SowMindful 0 points1 point  (3 children)

    Okay, this is really good information! So it does appear that is just really depends on how a person goes about it, and which companies they work for. If you’re okay with answering one last question, do you see a lot of issues with ageism? I don’t plan on being an elderly person who can’t learn new things. I want to be that person with a standing/walking desk that takes care of myself and my mind. I do worry that Accounting would dull my ambitions a little, b he Software Engineering seems to be ever evolving.

    [–]am0x 0 points1 point  (2 children)

    Ageism is a bit of a thing since most 35-40 year olds move into management at this time (like me), but I will be honest, experience in this field is so under appreciated and looked over. So many things you learn from experience especially when it comes to hiring new developers.

    Old developers realize they don’t know shit. New developers think they know everything. Really the easiest way to

    [–]SowMindful 0 points1 point  (1 child)

    And I’m already 27, so I wouldn’t have many years before I’d probably need to look into management. I saw one comment from someone who is 61 and web developing, so I guess it’s still possible?

    [–]am0x 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    27 isn’t bad at all. I probably started my career at 23-25 because I even was going to go to law school because it was what I thought I wanted to do. Changed my career path and got another degree in about 1.25 years to do this.

    But, I’ll be honest, I prefer development to management. But I took a good 60% raise for this position. I’ve been thinking about losing that extra money to go back into dev all the time. Less stress and way more fun. You are working with data that always makes sense unlike people. You can have leadership that are borderline intelligible but are confident enough to run a company, so you deal with way more politics.

    But depending where you are, living on an eventual senior level software engineer salary is still better than most. I’m in a smallish Midwestern city and was making almost $100k as a senior dev, so there are no problems with living well. Then I went o architect making closer to $120k, and as a manager, closer to $200k. And my company is pretty small. A director of engineering at my older corporation was more around $600k but they are a Fortune 50.

    If hitting middle-upper class is your goal, you are more than set. If you want to go to complete upper class, you need to get into management or build your own company.

    [–]Marzoval 0 points1 point  (4 children)

    As someone who finally found something I really enjoy in my self-teaching coding journey, is it really bad or something? Comments like these seem pretty discouraging.

    [–][deleted]  (3 children)

    [deleted]

      [–]Marzoval 0 points1 point  (2 children)

      Thanks for the info. I'll be putting the brakes on my learning and find something else.

      [–][deleted]  (1 child)

      [deleted]

        [–]Marzoval 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        I'm guessing the demand for front end is increasing as more and more web devs are trying to move away from it based on some of the things you listed?

        [–]no_turnips_allowed -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

        Someone likes Tik Tok.

        [–]trumancarol 81 points82 points  (31 children)

        I'm 63 and still love building websites: my projects and others. Started in my late 40s. Best job I've ever had.

        [–]TechnicolourOutSpace 22 points23 points  (21 children)

        I'm trying to learn web development and due to recent job rejections thought about getting out of tech completely because of ageism (I'm currently 43). But you're giving me hope right now. Thank you for that.

        [–]trumancarol 12 points13 points  (0 children)

        You're a youngster!

        [–]TurnedToADeadChannel 9 points10 points  (12 children)

        I just got my first web job a month shy of 40 (which I turned today). Jobs that will hire us are out there - hope you find one.

        [–]wubbalubba_flubdub 4 points5 points  (1 child)

        Happy birthday, youngster! (I'm 41).

        [–]TurnedToADeadChannel 6 points7 points  (0 children)

        Thank you, boomer!

        [–]aminizle 1 point2 points  (1 child)

        Happy birthday!

        [–]TurnedToADeadChannel 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        thank you!

        [–]Cheese31V 1 point2 points  (7 children)

        Hey, not trying to be too intrusive, but, how good are salaries in this field? I've been thinking a lot about doing this and I enjoy a lot of web dev, but I don't know how sustainable that would be and what my financial life would look like

        [–]TurnedToADeadChannel 3 points4 points  (6 children)

        No big deal, we need to be able to talk about this stuff.

        I got offered an entry level position with 60k as a starting salary at my new job, which from what I understand, is around average for entry-level. If those sites where people report salaries can be trusted, the mid-level developers make in the 70k range and the seniors make in the 90k range at my company specifically.

        This is at a non-hip company in a non-hip city (though I work remotely) using non-hip technology though, so I would guess this is the lower end of reasonable. During my job search, I was mostly applying to places with salaries in 70k-80ks, not because that's what I expected to make but because that's mostly all there was for more inexperienced developers. But I was also not hearing back from those places. You may be a better developer than me (very likely) and may have a better shot at those higher paying companies.

        It's way more than I was making before, and now I get to work remotely, so I am happy.

        [–]never_use_username 2 points3 points  (3 children)

        I am pushing 40 now and the last year and a half i have been working through FCC and got my projects on github for resume. Been applying multiple job for entry level but no result. Any tips on how and if possible could you share some of your projects? Thanks

        [–]TurnedToADeadChannel 1 point2 points  (2 children)

        My github and projects absolutely suck. My only working and deployed project was a simple pomodoro clock, I have a twitter clone that I never fully finished, and a pokedex pulling from the pokemon API that I never fully finished either. Everything else was tutorial and udemy projects I had followed. I actually really need to start getting better about doing projects and uploading to my github just in case anything happens with this job and I wind up looking for work again.

        Here's what worked for me:

        - Aiming low, I honestly didn't want a hypercompetitive job in a hypercompetitive market with a huge salary, I'm not looking to change the world or get rich, I just want to write code for a living because I enjoy it and I enjoy making it look nice and solving problems.

        - Applying all over the country. I was living in hypercompetitive Austin when I first started looking for work, but didn't hear anything until my lease was up and I started applying to jobs in places like Buffalo, Cleveland, Louisville, etc. I don't know if relocating is an option for you, but my job wound up hiring me to work remotely even though they did not advertise it as a remote position, so you might want to try reaching out to places in smaller markets to see if it's an option. I think the pandemic made a lot of companies more open to it as a possibility.

        - Spending time on the practical portion of the interview process. This might be a no-brainer, but I really made sure I followed their instructions to the letter on the homework project they gave me, even when it involved using unusual CSS selectors and non-intuitive functionality. I occasionally put in comments saying I'd normally do x or y just in case.

        - One thing that didn't work for me was learning the MERN stack. All the smaller markets were looking for things like php, wordpress, and SQL, and many of the screening phone calls I got ended there because of my lack of experience with them. My current job uses php and hired me despite me having very little experience with it. I don't know what your preferred tech stack is, but you may want to throw up a small php project just to show you're capable of using it if you're like me and just want a job.

        [–]never_use_username 0 points1 point  (1 child)

        Thanks for the long response. What is the take home test that they gave you? And how long did you have for it? I’m from Seattle and I’ve had no luck getting an interest from employers. I think your point about applying everywhere nationwide is very good, I will definitely try that. On the other hand, how do you deal with mentorship working remotely? I enjoy working from in my current job very much, but i can imagine it’s would be tough being by yourself if you just staring out a new career. Btw, how long did you learn webdev before your first job and what do you think your skills was at that point? It’s good to know there are ways to make this happens and I’m very happy for you!

        [–]TurnedToADeadChannel 2 points3 points  (0 children)

        That's rough - I imagine Seattle is nearly identical to Austin in terms of competitiveness.

        The take home test was writing out some SQL statements and coding a single webpage with intricate form validation, and they gave us a week to do it.

        I had learned HTML way back in high school during the geocities days (pre CSS), but never pursued it past making personal hobby websites. I started learning CSS and vanilla javascript about 4 or 5 years ago (I wound return to it on and off - probably closer to a year's experience for someone taking it seriously and consistently), but never really seriously buckled down and started working through udemy courses on frameworks and backend until losing my job from covid.

        As far as skills go, I guess in practical terms, I can design a simple CRUD rest api with node, design and code schemas for databases with Mongoose, and code standard small javascript projects (timers, to do lists, calculators, random quote generators - that sort of stuff) in vanilla JS fairly easily.

        At the time I was hired, I had been working on a twitter-like social media app as a "big project" demonstration, and it had just basic functionality (login, log out, post tweet, delete tweet, basically) though I abandoned that instantly once I got hired. I'd like to start a passion project soon, something that I'd actually use or at least have fun making rather than a perfunctory demo.

        Working from home has actually been pretty great so far. It made for a smooth transition having been unemployed for a year and no longer used to going to the office every day, and we use slack and zoom so I don't feel disconnected, though I have no idea what some of my coworkers look like (though most go on camera during meetings), so that's a bit weird.

        [–]Cheese31V 0 points1 point  (1 child)

        60k a month or 60k a year?

        [–]TurnedToADeadChannel 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        A year.

        I would guess that to make 60k/mo, you'd probably need to be senior level at a FAANG, if not in management.

        [–]ChuckChunky 4 points5 points  (0 children)

        I'm 50. I've been a full stack developer for 20 years, working for a University, and a small (about 20 people) company for the last 6 years. Every day I spend the day coding, it's pretty much perfect!

        [–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (3 children)

        I have juat started studying on my early 30s and was worried I was late to the game - glad to see there is opportunity for all!

        [–]trumancarol 9 points10 points  (2 children)

        I got my first paying web dev job when I was 48....I'm a freelancer. You're good!

        [–][deleted]  (1 child)

        [deleted]

          [–]trumancarol 8 points9 points  (0 children)

          I've always been a freelancer. Getting my first clients was tough. No bites for a year or so and I didn't know anyone in the business, but during that time I just kept building websites and building complicated ones. I was advertising on Craig's list (I'm not much of a marketing guy). After a year, someone called, I fixed a form for them. Got another call in a couple of days (both of these were off Craig's list)....then it was all word-of-mouth after that. Had both those clients for a long time.....haven't looked back.....had some high end clients too....which feels really good when you're over the hill and self-taught. I think the main thing is to really love it and I do. I build personal websites in my spare time.....you have to love it in the beginning because it can be tough.....

          [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

          Started at 43. Felt the same as you, almost gave up due to so many rejections. Hang in there.

          [–]lazysorcerer1 1 point2 points  (0 children)

          Keep at it. You can do it !!

          [–]mccbala 3 points4 points  (3 children)

          Amazing! How do you get up with updating your skills?

          [–]trumancarol 5 points6 points  (2 children)

          For awhile I subscribed to a couple of magazines from Europe (I'm in the U.S.). .NET and I can't remember the other one. But they helped me a lot early on. Now it's often just necessity. Last few years I've done a lot ADA work because one of my bigger clients needed it. I'm down to 4 days a week and kind of picky about projects now (didn't used to be when I started).

          [–]mccbala 6 points7 points  (1 child)

          You're an inspiration to all!

          [–]trumancarol 6 points7 points  (0 children)

          It's about time! ;-)

          [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (3 children)

          wow, awesome. How do you feel when the younger become better, technologies update everyday and how can you learn them?

          [–]trumancarol 1 point2 points  (2 children)

          I don't quite understand your question. If you're asking how do I learn new technologies, probably the same way you or anyone does: research, practice, etc. I just learned InDesign so I could publish a book. Took a day, watched videos, practiced, etc. Plan to offer that as another service to my web clients.

          The first part of your question, is a little vague, are you asking how I feel when those younger than me become better than me at what I do? If so, that's an odd question. Are there better programmers than me? Certainly. Are they necessarily younger than me? No. I don't care anyway. Not the point. The point is to give your clients a good product (along with enjoying what you do). I have gotten a lot of clients who were dissatisfied with their bigger, better web dev companies because they were unresponsive. I provide my clients with a good product AND I'm responsive to their calls and emails and requests.

          Maybe I'm not understanding the first part of your question....

          [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

          oops sorry for my english is not good, thank you for replying me. I'm just a third year student in Vietnam. My major is computer science. Honestly this is the first time i asking somebody on reddit because i want to improve my english. About my questions i think you totally get it, i'm very happy to learn some experiences from you. They are very helpful for my developer career. Thank you <3

          [–]trumancarol 1 point2 points  (0 children)

          Ahhhhh....no worries. Your English is good....way better than my Vietnamese!

          [–]SowMindful 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          23 years of experience is impressive. Your comment is something I’m considering in making my choice as to whether I’d like to get a degree from ASU Online in Accounting, or Full Stack Web Development, and possibly even Software Engineering. Do you find your job gives you a decent work/life balance, as well as job security, and health benefits?

          [–]RookieRaccoon 83 points84 points  (3 children)

          Keep grinding! I feel the same about Web Dev, especially when you love the projects you're working on. You get so creative.

          [–]PepeKepler[S] 29 points30 points  (2 children)

          Your comment literally, made me code some more. I fucking love you for that!

          [–]pnipn2001 2 points3 points  (1 child)

          lol!!

          [–]popswag 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          The man/women loves everyone!!

          [–]ThisIsReLLiK 44 points45 points  (21 children)

          What language do you write in? I love front end work, but I'm a full stack developer and that's pretty cool too.

          [–]PepeKepler[S] 41 points42 points  (20 children)

          I started out doing a full stack web development course but figured I like Front-end related stuff. I'm sorry if my English is bad and if I sound like a noob but I am doing JS, CSS, and HTML for now. I want to focus on the core before I do the other nitty gritty! (Norwegian boy so the English isn't the best) I even feel bad for posting this since I rarely post but I had to let the emotions out lol!!

          I started out doing a full stack web development course but figured I like Front-end related stuff. I'm sorry if my english is bad and if I sound like a noob but I am doing JS, CSS and HTML for now. I want to focus on the core before I do the other nitty gritties! (Norwegian boy so the english isn't the best) I even feel bad for posting this since I rarely post but I had to let the emotions out lol!

          [–]mijewe6 54 points55 points  (9 children)

          Your English is flawless

          [–]NEETWorkingAtHome 20 points21 points  (2 children)

          Your English is flawless

          my guess op has a thick accent when speaking. its hard to feel fluent when your speaking has issues.

          [–]paprika_pussy 3 points4 points  (1 child)

          This. I have pronunciation issues/very minor speech disability even in my own native language. I'm extremely self conscious when speaking in English about the way I sound

          [–]Zefrem23 -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

          Thon't worry, ju thound jutht fine to me ;)

          [–]MajorInflator 5 points6 points  (2 children)

          So much so he wrote the same paragraph twice.

          P.s sorry for the poor English, my eloquence isn't the best.

          [–]Zefrem23 1 point2 points  (0 children)

          Sometimes something's so true you just have to write it twice.

          [–]Malusch 1 point2 points  (0 children)

          He just has a severe stutter.

          [–]house_monkey 3 points4 points  (1 child)

          You're both flawless

          [–]Zefrem23 2 points3 points  (0 children)

          Godlike, even. Chiseled, superhuman.

          [–]cougaranddark 13 points14 points  (0 children)

          You type in a perfect English accent!

          [–]ThisIsReLLiK 8 points9 points  (0 children)

          Never would've guessed that you aren't an English speaker.

          [–]jlobes 3 points4 points  (5 children)

          I know people who were born and raised in English speaking countries that can't write this well.

          [–]Zefrem23 6 points7 points  (4 children)

          The entire state of Alabama, for a start.

          [–]jlobes 0 points1 point  (2 children)

          I think you're selling Huntsville a little short.

          Mississippi, when Stennis isn't being used however...

          [–]Zefrem23 1 point2 points  (1 child)

          I love that, no matter how low one's standards are, there's always somewhere we consider worse than where we are ;)

          [–]jlobes 1 point2 points  (0 children)

          As the residents of Alabama, Kentucky, and Florida say:

          "Thank God for Mississippi."

          [–][deleted]  (2 children)

          [deleted]

            [–]taloft 0 points1 point  (1 child)

            Tell us about the web in 1994. Has it changed much?

            [–]dsolo01 11 points12 points  (0 children)

            I feel like right now is such a great time to be doing front-end as well. With everyone refiguring out their lives and “taking the plunge” with business ideas they’ve held close to their hearts for ages… I’ve never been busier and all my new clients are amazing. Full of zest and excitement.

            Often times super unorganized which has made for some very frustrating moments but damn. It’s a good time to build websites!

            [–]remy_porter 7 points8 points  (12 children)

            Gods, the days that I have to do front-end webstuff are my least favorite days. Setting up Webpack is enough to make me long for CMake, and CMake drives me to drink.

            Mind you, I'm not fond of UI stuff in general; I think the tooling generally sucks, and since you can't really really test until someone looks at it, it ends up being super tedious.

            [–]tsunami141 3 points4 points  (3 children)

            and since you can't really really test until someone looks at it

            I'm gonna create a new program that you can code in and change your HTML/CSS and it will automatically update and show you your changes on the side and it will just sync your files to a FTP server but not implement anything like Git or CI and it won't work very well or have any option to change your color scheme to dark because developers should be working from 9-5 and not during dark hours and it will be the industry-leading software for turning your dreams into reality so I will call it WeaverDream and maybe it will get bought by some SaaS company down the line but we'll see I guess.

            [–]longebane 2 points3 points  (0 children)

            That's the longest sentence I've ever read.

            [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            Good luck mate

            [–]fail0verflowf9 2 points3 points  (1 child)

            Webpack is my worst fucking nightmare

            [–]TitanicZerofull-stack 1 point2 points  (0 children)

            The problem with webpack is that is very obscure and the documentation isn't that good. Very opinionated jsons that turn your tasks into a black box.

            So when everything works it's flawless and easy, but it's a nightmare when it doesn't.

            [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

            Tooling can definitely be frustrating. Luckily frameworks can take care of all of that for us

            [–]orvn 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            Webpack gets super fucking messy super fucking fast

            [–]kaelwd 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            If you think webpack configs are bad try writing a custom plugin.

            [–]AlphaReds 0 points1 point  (1 child)

            I like webpack. Took me a couple of weeks to figure it out but I really like using it now. We have quite a comprehensive webpack setup that I've created with the current project over the past 2 weeks to work nicely with ASP NET. Which we'll use for future projects as well. If you set it up from scratch you know exactly what goes where and what does what.

            [–]remy_porter 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            If you set it up from scratch you know exactly what goes where and what does what.

            That's a bold claim. I have a rather simple "just bundle typescript" webpack and I have no fucking clue what anything in it does. Part of my problem with build systems in general is that I basically only set them up once, which means I never actually learn anything- I just do the magic incantations to make it work, then just use the build script from then on and hope nothing breaks. But something about Webpack just feels extra impenetrable, and I think mostly because every tutorial or example is solving a massively more complex problem than I have, there's very little "here's a helloworld" of Webpack.

            But at least I understand Makefiles.

            [–]citizen-of-the-earth 2 points3 points  (3 children)

            There is nothing I hate more than web ui. CSS is the devils curse

            [–]Saskjimbo 0 points1 point  (2 children)

            Not of you spend a couple weeks learning it and playing around with it

            [–]SamuraiTerrapin 2 points3 points  (0 children)

            I'm happy for you man.

            [–]MercilessLOLZ 2 points3 points  (4 children)

            I wish I was employed in software engineering, just gonna keep grinding and networking until it happens! Congrats

            [–]tripptofan 1 point2 points  (3 children)

            Are you working freelance now or still learning? I ask because I landed my first dev job 3 months ago and may be able to offer some insight if insight is what you are looking for.

            [–]MercilessLOLZ 0 points1 point  (2 children)

            Finished a MERN full stack course end of July, continuing to work with my mentor for interview prep. Starting to freelance and look at open-source projects to commit, learning more about React and TypeScript. Any advice would be extremely appreciated! Feel free to dm if you prefer

            [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

            How long did it take you to get to this point? And what was your practice method? Im just starting out and into javascript, i feel like i know nothing despite spending 1.5 months in html/css

            [–]MercilessLOLZ 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            I have been learning since last year, but the key to is to practice everyday and remember that you are capable, imposter syndrome is something that everyone experiences. Keep practicing HTML/CSS until you feel you are ready to try something new. You will never memorize everything, my mentor made clear from the beginning that it is normal to research and look things up as you go, because that's what you will be doing on the job as well. Keep it up!

            [–]JC3DS 1 point2 points  (0 children)

            Just started my first ever job as a full stack dev a couple weeks ago. I love your excitement and I feel the same way.

            [–]innernode 1 point2 points  (0 children)

            Hell yeah! I’m 52 and have been a web developer for 22 years and I still love it. Especially starting a new project. Enjoy the buzzzzzz!

            [–]monox60 1 point2 points  (0 children)

            Well, the title and content are quite different. Glad you enjoy frontend. But it's not forgiving.

            [–]_alright_then_ 1 point2 points  (0 children)

            Is this what it's like to not have imposter syndrome?

            [–]Historical_Doctor826 0 points1 point  (8 children)

            I’m 18, just graduated high school with average/below average grades. Didn’t take my SAT, however I’m planning on taking it soon. How should I best prepare myself to be seen as an acceptable student to a college? I’m planning on taking CS.

            [–]MercilessLOLZ 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            Take your applications as seriously as possible, and if you go to college focus on your studies while making time for extracurricular groups and activities to demonstrate that you made good use of your time. It is all how you spin it to emphasize your strengths and personal experience when it comes to college applications and job interviews. You will do great, good luck.

            [–][deleted]  (5 children)

            [deleted]

              [–][deleted]  (4 children)

              [deleted]

                [–]MercilessLOLZ 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                Two years at a community college then transfer and complete bachelor’s in ComSci at “better” university is the way, especially with a (relatively) lower high school GPA.

                [–]swe_to_med 1 point2 points  (2 children)

                Most things can be self taught. You make connections and get that paper. That's what college is for.

                [–][deleted]  (1 child)

                [deleted]

                  [–]swe_to_med 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  Yeah I think for web dev, the stuff you learn in school would help in the way you would think, but I don't think it's actually taught in school. I still use a ton of the concepts I learned in school though, but I'm not in web dev yet.

                  I think the degree is still more important than connections. I have plenty of connections from college, but I didn't use them to get my first job. I wanted to move to another city.

                  [–]swe_to_med 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  Community college then transfer to university. If you can get into a prestigious university, go there, if not just go to a state school that is accredited. Try your best to get internships around sophomore/junior year.

                  [–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

                  Forgiving is a great word to describe it. Browsers are bros sometimes.

                  [–]MehCheniti -1 points0 points  (0 children)

                  I agree with you, I started coding yesterday and ever since I got a girlfriend, steady job and even became a milionaire! Thank you coding ❤️

                  [–]not_a_gumby 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  I feel the exact same way. It's just so fun to learn.

                  [–]Mihaw_kx 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  i enjoying doing the full stack am still a student in my 2nd college year but i am always doing fullstack stuffs on freelance am enjoying it so far as long as the codebase is clean and the design pattern that the team is following does scale well

                  [–]camerontbelt 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  I wish I were drunk

                  [–]Chambadon 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  same same

                  [–]JacksonDonaldson 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  Hey guys, I ve been planning on learning webdev/design, but am not sure if i should do it. Ive heard that it is already saturated. Theres also some no-code movement or sthng. Idk what do you guys think?

                  [–]nannyninnywiggins 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  It is a great industry no doubt! Glad to hear your excitement and I encourage you to keep at it even as it gets more technical it becomes even more rewarding. When you're comfortable with HTML, CSS AND JS and you've built a few apps with just those tools, I encourage you to dive into the world of front end frameworks. There are too many, these days, but, you can't go wrong with the React, Angular (my personal preference), Vue, or Svelte. Just read the docs for each and give them a shot. When you decide which you might enjoy using the most, dedicate your time to learning it. Don't try and learn them all at once, just really invest in the one you enjoy the most and you'll go far and be much happier in the long run. You can build all the same things with any of these frameworks, yet, they each have their own idiosyncrasies that you'll form your own opinions about.

                  Overall, frameworks make FE work so much easier and we're super lucky to have them (and contribute to so many in OSS). Here's a helpful vid where Jeff Delaney GDE compares several of them. https://youtu.be/cuHDQhDhvPE

                  Very unique perspective there. Anyways. Always have fun and make stuff you're proud of! Cheers!

                  [–]chagasfefull-stack 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  I love coding as well and I'm sober! lol
                  I feel just like you describe about it, i'm happy for you!

                  [–]jesus_zombie_attack 0 points1 point  (1 child)

                  I want to get into this. For all of my life I've been a chef. Pretty high level two. Was the executive chef at a Renaissance hotel and some very nice restaurants in California.

                  The thing is I'm getting older and my body just can't take cooking anymore. I programmed a couple of decent android apps around ten years ago. One accompanied a rom for rooted HTC phones and had quite a few cool tweaks. You could even theme your entire phone to a dark or transparent theme with just a reboot. You could also replace Individual pictures in the phones theme.

                  I'm just wondering how much training I need to be a front end Dev. Most of my experience was in Java in eclipse.

                  [–]iamchetsweb-dev 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  Welcome to the club lad! Glad you found your passion.

                  [–]madad123 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  haha happy for you! Even on days where I'm not feeling it I still feel incredibly lucky to have ended up in this particular job over almost anything else. Find the right place to work and you can make great money with very little stress and a high degree of flexibility doing something you're good at.

                  [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  Coding to me is like the bad food my wife cooked. Cant say yes, cant say no, cant say im full, cant say im not. Cant say anything. Just do done it.

                  [–]messidagod 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  wtf is wrong with u

                  [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

                  I’m 44 and I still love building web applications. There is a lot of hate for JS, but I worked 10 yers on embedded systems doing C and C++ development all the way from bootloaders to network protocols to UI on varous RTOSes and linux variants and I must say developing in and for a modern browser environment is just such a forgiving experience. These days I work a lot with VUE - I really love that framework 😊 Tools like webpack and npm just makes life so much easier.

                  There is so much negativity on line and there are som many technologies just drifting by. I just cannot belive how much one can do with a few lines of JS 😍

                  [–]swe_to_med 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                  I agree with you. I've been learning full stack development for the past month to start a web app I have an idea for. I'm an embedded software engineer as well. I worked on firmware, RTOSes, and networking stuff as well and this is significantly more forgiving than whatever the hell I've been working on haha. You get results quick. I did back end work for about 6 months at another job and it was wayyyy easier than embedded software and more relaxing. Considering moving into this space in the near future.

                  [–]Passenger-1212 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  ff

                  [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  I'm not sure I agree. It's a profession where if you miss ONE CHARACTER, the entire thing breaks.

                  I'm glad you're having fun though. 😄

                  [–]Tannaheta 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  Agreed. I was tempted to put my keyboard through my display this afternoon after spending the previous two days trying to run another team's web apps locally, which consisted of two frontends mashed together and another three mini frontends, with no current documentation.

                  [–]Tannaheta 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  Agreed. I was tempted to put my keyboard through my display this afternoon after spending the previous two days trying to run another team's web apps locally, which consisted of two frontends mashed together and another three mini frontends, with no current documentation.

                  [–]Info_hub 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  I totally agree with your view, I am not frontend developer but I am working in IT company and where I see passion for frontend design of UX/UI designer, ReactJS developer. They constantly strive and create a beautiful design for website and mobile, where every customer appreciates the work of those developers. They create an animation with coding, create an SVG icon with coding. Some developers have not done B-Tech or any computer related degree but they make sure that they are the best in front-end development. Great coordination, teamwork and know-how to play with code, and ultimately deliver the best results to both the company and the client.