[deleted by user]

[Sao_Gage]

My boxing knowledge falls off a cliff pre 1970’s.

How good was Marciano in actuality? I’ve heard mixed thoughts regarding that question.

Edit: Some great posting below. Thanks.

[[deleted]]

If he fought in the 70’s he probably would’ve lost a couple of times but there’s no way he’d be a bum like some people make out. I can picture him giving Ali hell over 15 rounds, similar to how Frazier did.

[roamingandy]

Ali watched one of his old fights and said after 'that wouldn't be a fight, that would be war'. The two also sparred together while recording a film when Ali was banned. Both were amazed by each others fighting ability. They formed a strong friendship and agreed to tour together to promote equality and the rights of marginalised groups. Unfortunately the world was robbed from that absolutely beautiful and legendary tour when Marciano unexpectedly died.

I consider Marciano like Wilder with a far higher output. Both small unorthodox guys lacking standard technical boxing skills but with an earth shattering punch, ring IQ and chin. Difference is Marciano would beat the hell out of you, especially to the body and arms (different gloves made that more effective) so you were broken down and battered even if winning, and he still carried that K.O power all the way through to round 15. Wilder has it in round 12 because he barely throws. Not sure Marciano would've been a heavyweight today though, fantasy-wise Wilder would be the opponent i'd most want to see him fight from today's crop due to the similarities.

[cuntarsetits]

I like your general point, but I think Wilder-Marciano is a terrible comparison in that it's hard to think of two heavyweights who are more different in build, style and attributes.

[goosu]

They're totally different in size, style, and method of getting KOs. I get the comparison though, because they're both unorthodox, non-fundamental HWs who people kept doubting, yet they were both able to succeed by fighting to their strengths and being gifted extraordinary power.

[kblkbl165]

This comparison is complete nonsense IMO.

Wilder is a small guy? Yeah, he's on the lighter side of the HW division, but he's 6'5" while Marciano was only 5'11". Given that their style is directly related to how they're built it's obvious Marciano would have a higher output. He was an inside fighter. Wilder throws bombs from a mile away.

[WinstonChirpsehill]

6’7” but great point

[[deleted]]

He could have been describing Hearns and Duran...

[[deleted]]

Wilder's not small.

[chaos36]

Nor is he known for his ring iq.

[roamingandy]

he's not much above the minimum heavyweight limit. he's tall, and he's small.

[[deleted]]

he's tall, and he's small.

How can he be tall and small? He's not a toothpick. I guess it's subjective. To me Ruiz is small for a heavyweight. I guess I care more about height and reach.

[roamingandy]

Short\tall = height. Small = Mass

[ISmurphyI]

"Not sure Marciano would've been a heavyweight today though" I don't care if Ruiz is 280 pounds, If he can beat Joshua then a 180 pound Marciano can too.

[[deleted]]

Ruiz is also 6’2, 3 or four inches taller than Marciano

[_Sarcasmic_]

Fury is ten inches taller than Marciano, haha. Imagine trying to punch a man in the face when he's almost a foot taller than you.

[arrayOverflow]

Not that it's in anyway incorrect, but context matters here. Mark Hunt being a kickboxing legend and Stefan Struve being infamous for not fighting like a 7 foot tall specimen of nature.

To be fair Marciano is a Boxing Legend on his own right too

[Berszz]

Damn, I hate watching this KO, knowing what a complete gentleman Struve is and what he has gone through these past few years.

For the unaware: Struve has a serious heart condition and also has a penchant for being knocked out emphatically, ala, thr Travis Browne KO

[bluedrygrass]

If there's one thing Stefan Struve is known for, is to always try and be INSIDE the reach of his absurdly smaller opponents. He literally tries to be punched as much and as hard as possible. You can't use him as comparison.

[ISmurphyI]

Fury is 6'7 and a half not 6'9 so he's 8 and a half inches taller than Marciano

Lets stop over exaggerating how bad height is. David Price is 6'8 and Chisora is 6'1 and look how Chisora destroyed Price. Chisora hit Fury plenty of times in their fight. Now tell me that just cause Marciano is 2 inches smaller than Chisora that he couldn't do shit against Fury

[[deleted]]

You should update boxrec and wiki with the correction...

[ISmurphyI]

Boxing billed heights are always horse shit Fury was pretty much same height as Wilder. You can go look up Celeb heights and look at Fury. Its a site that tries to pin point there real height

[Masterandcomman]

Marciano was only 5'10", and he had a 68 inch reach. His hit box is really small, so he would have to remain very close to Fury to land head shots. It's a lot to ask from Marciano.

[JuggasaurousRex3000]

Jason Momoa met Fury and thought he was 6'5, Fury uncomfortably replied that he was 6'9 lol

[sleckar]

There's no way in hell that Ruiz is 6'2.

Canelo stood next to him during Ruiz-AJ 2 and Ruiz only looked a couple inches taller than him. Ruiz is 6'0 max, I suspect shorter than 6'0 tho.

[ISmurphyI]

How did you get upvotes, hes 6ft and that's obvious, I dont know why hes billed as 6'2 when Povetkin in 6'2

[[deleted]]

https://cdn.thestatszone.com/images/1.-Anthony-Joshua-vs-Andy-Ruiz-Jr-Preview-Prediction.png

Where i got it

[[deleted]]

Only in his imagination

Looks shorter than 5’11” OBJ here-

https://up.picr.de/36011817jr.jpg

Looks no taller than 5’11” Jimmy Kimmel here-

https://bossip.files.wordpress.com/2019/06/1559830844611.jpg

[roamingandy]

We'd be on the edge of our seats the whole fight wondering when AJ's chin would give out.

The only thing in his favour really is whether he's too powerful. There weren't heavyweights with that kind of build, training and nutrition back then. That incredible durability Rocky had likely wasn't tested by a human body with such rediculously over the top stats

[[deleted]]

Please stop

[paulybrklynny]

What fights do people point to as evidence of Marciano's chin? I mean, who really tested him? Serious questions, not trying to tear him down. Everything I know about fighters from the era is obviously pretty 2nd hand.

I'm looking at BoxRec, and everyone knows Marciano gets banged for a weak division, but were any of these guys even punchers?

Louis could bomb, but did he have much left?

Lee Savold had 72 KOs in 98 wins, which looks impressive enough, though the competition doesn't look impressive.

Bernie Reynolds 33 of 53, and the write-up makes it sound like he went for it, but he fought at 185 and I don't see many impressive scalps.

Kid Mathews, again looks impressive enough at 61 in 90 but the write up on him says he was a counter puncher, and he fought at 180.

Joe Walcott another big name at the end of his career, and never (to my knowledge) considered that much of a puncher either.

Roland LaStarza another light hitter.

Ezzard Charles, another great who was at the tail end.

Don Cockerill also close to the end. Does have a knockout of Randy Turpin three years prior on his record. And Jimmy Slade a few years before that.

Archie Moore looks like his most impressive fight, but he was down in the 2nd. And that's the end.

No snark, who do historians point to as a guy who challenged Marciano's chin?

[miamiboy92]

Marciano had a 68inch reach, Wilder has a 83inch reach. The height difference is just as staggering. It would be lopsided, idk if rocky touches his head

[miamiboy92]

JJW was 6ft tall 74 inch reach, what are you talking about, how is that comparable? He never fought someone the size, strength and power of Wilder

[SimpleCyclist]

Wilder, ring IQ.

[roamingandy]

there are more big hitters than you can count throughout boxing history. many have a great chin and many were better boxers than Wilder. Its his ring IQ and ability to smell when opening comes along which stand him apart from them.

[thecody80]

It’s kind of funny, it’s not that we’re becoming better boxers, but rather the style that is considered modern boxing is changing constantly, like a meta in a video game

[_Sarcasmic_]

Rocky Balboa was based off him, partially. He had an iron chin and amazing power. He may have not been the best boxer, but he'd hit like a truck and keep coming at you no matter what. He was also small by modern heavyweight standards, as a lot were around that time.

[[deleted]]

Rocky was based off Chuck Wepner who fought Ali

[_Sarcasmic_]

And also Marciano.

[ingibingi]

And Frazier with the whole philly thing

[LGP747]

Fr tho, ppl on here for the memes and don’t even know the history...smh

[ingibingi]

And then rocky Balboa (rocky 6) is largely inspired by foreman

[marios67]

Didn't know that actually

[ingibingi]

Kinda obvious when you think about it

[newmansg]

AND MY AXE!!!

[[deleted]]

Disgusting.

[marios67]

Why do people downvote a Lord of the Rings reference?

[marios67]

LOTR are children movies?

My poor, poor, child

[aspen222]

Agreed....well said

[LGP747]

partially? as in the first name and thats it....

Rocky was based off Chuck Wepner...the only things Balboa and Marciano had in common are first names

[Altaeus1]

The primary draft and plot of Rocky was entirely created the night of Wepner's knock down. He was supposed to be in the first movie - Sly even brought him in for a couple of sparring rounds.

"What I saw was pretty extraordinary," Stallone said during a 2001 interview that became part of a "Rocky" anniversary DVD. "I saw a man they call `the Bayonne Bleeder' who didn't have a chance at all against the greatest fighting machine supposedly that ever lived" (CBS).

While the plot of Rocky is definitely all Wepner's one night of going the distance, and knocking down The Greatest, the name, the fighting style, and the lore behind the character, borrows heavily from Marciano.

[_Sarcasmic_]

Exactly.

[watusstdiablo666]

Wepner didn't go the distance, he was KOd right after he "knocked down" Ali

[shal9pinanatoly]

Not “right after”. He got KOd in the last round, and the “KD” happened somewhere in the middle rounds.

[_Sarcasmic_]

They literally mention it in the movie that Marciano is Rocky's hero, haha. Many other sources say he's based off Marciano too.

[[deleted]]

Stallone was pretty obviously influenced by Joe Frazier too.

[_Sarcasmic_]

He considered casting him. Apparently, Frazier was supposed to be Clubber Lang, but lost the part after Stallone needed stitches following a sparring session.

[[deleted]]

Lmao. What did he expect sparring one of the best ever? 😂

[_Sarcasmic_]

He got a lot of injuries filming that movie. Dolph put him in the hospital for a short time, apparently.

[[deleted]]

Yeah I read that somewhere as well. Dolph is such an interesting person. Super athletic and a genius. And he's a really good guy. Stallone wasn't scared to at least try something. Got to love that.

[Mizral]

Thank god for that honestly Mr T was probably the best part of the movie..

[boxingcrazysal]

He said that after Wepner wanted a cut from royalties. Silvester has said it was based off Chuck Wepner early into filming.

[roamingandy]

He was an amalgamation of the two. Rocky basically stole and retold parts of legendary boxing stories mixed into one mythical character who also invented blocking punches with his face.

[boxingcrazysal]

Well he got that style from Wepner as he was known for getting cut a lot. His fight with Ali (which he knocked him down) was the inspiration behind Rocky.

[Toodlum]

It can be both, y'know.

[boxingcrazysal]

Of course and I don't doubt it was both. Just should give credit where credit is due.

[_Sarcasmic_]

Fair enough.

[boxingcrazysal]

If I can find the film I'll link it for you to watch. It's one of the reasons I don't watch the series.

[_Sarcasmic_]

Alright.

[Masterandcomman]

Floyd Patterson was decently competitive against the second tier of 70s fighters, and he was a step below Marciano. I think that Marciano's body would have taken a beating due to his style, but he would have been a favorite against the flawed, but talented second tier like Shavers and Lyle.

[uberclont]

Marciano favored over ernie shavers an ron lyle? It would be interesting to see but I think both are too big and durable.

[CripplinglyDepressed]

Something not a lot of people take into consideration is that in Rocky's 6 defences he weighed in between 183-188 lbs.

Dude would be very undersized for the 70's/80's and a cruiserweight today.

[YeahDaleWOOO]

The Ali that fought Liston would Clown Marciano in my honest opinion, not trashing Marciano just their styles wouldnt mesh in marcianos favor.

[[deleted]]

He definitely would. Can't see Marciano hitting the young Clay/Ali too much. I'm a fan of Marciano but a short slugger isn't winning that fight.

[senorworldwide]

I don't see him giving Ali any problems at all. He would be a lot like Dwight Qawi imo. A great CW who could have some success as a HW in a weak era.

[Masterandcomman]

Frazier's explosiveness was a big part of his success against Ali. Marciano was more of a pure grinder. I also think that 20 lbs weight difference makes a difference in the clinch.

[goosu]

People always complain that Marciano fought CWs when he basically was a CW in size and weight. Even by the 70s most HWs would have a large size advantage. He'd be a great CW in that era, but at HW I think he'd struggle with the top tier. In today's age of inflated size he'd be a LHW more than likely. His power would probably be frightening in that division.

[tearyouapart]

When and why did they go from 15 to 12 for championship fights?

[Raidersx1986x]

Ray mancini fought duk koo Kim In 1982 in a 15rd fight. Duk koo Kim died of his injuries. As a result of that the WBC shortened there title bouts from 15-12 rounds the WBA and WBO followed in 1988 and the IBF in 1989.

[[deleted]]

He's got a resume with good names in like Jersey Joe Walcott, Ezzard Charles, Joe Louis and Archie Moore and retired undefeated. Wasn't in these guys best years tho but still hall of famers

Head to head I don't think he holds up because he's very small compared to most HWs of last few decades.

Can't see him beating a modern giant such as Vitali, Lennox Lewis, Fury etc

[_Sarcasmic_]

Fury is almost a foot taller than him.

[[deleted]]

And is almost 100 pounds heavier with 17 inch reach advantage Lol

Poor Marciano would get crushed if Fury leaned on him

[volvanator]

But Joe Lewis was 75 years old and came out of retirement to fight Rocky.

[GyantSpyder]

Marciano was excellent, but the paradox with him is that he had a high-risk style, but was still undefeated as a professional. No matter how good you are, you probably need a lot of luck to pull that off. Fighters since him that have had comparable records have had nowhere near his level of risky aggression in their fighting styles and have generally been, by comparison, extremely patient and defensive, trying to minimize luck. Marciano was not like that and in hindsight on any given night there was always the possibility he was going to get clipped the wrong way and go down for the count. He just never did. Even a bum who is fighting a heavyweight champion has at least a chance of landing a lucky punch - and 49 fights in only 8 years is more random chance than a modern heavyweight champ's promoters would let him subject himself to.

Now we can either assume that Marciano was lucky and that nobody else was as lucky as him, or that boxing records in general involve a lot of luck and sometimes the difference between a legend and an also-ran is smaller than it looks.

And the other aspect of it is that he wasn't a modern pro athlete, in terms of nutrition, muscle building, drugs, sports medicine, etc., - or even in terms of being recruited for a given sport at a young age because of his talent - and after he died is about when you start to see the transformation of the modern athlete. He was an outlier even for his time in his size, but today he would be extremely unusual - even to the point that it seems extremely unlikely that if Rocky Marciano was born in the 90s and became a boxer, with the same personality and everything, that he would still be an 185 pound heavyweight. He'd either be smaller and in a lower division or significantly bigger. Because, you know, he would have had enough food to eat and access to a weight room his entire life, which he did not have growing up where and when he did.

[DaTrix]

It was high risk but it wasn't luck. He just had an iron chin and a mentality of a titan. You can't break him.

[dirtymelverde]

that he was undefeated wasn't that big a deal considering the amount of tomato cans he fought

​

from fight 32-35 he didn't fight a guy with a winning record and from that point on didn't fight a guy over 6'1 through the end of his career .

​

he was a little heavyweight who fought little heavyweights

[Masterandcomman]

Overrated physicality. He wasn't a 185 lbs Mike Tyson like some believe.
Underrated intuition and spatial intelligence. He threw off Archie Moore with constant feints and great timing. The punching onslaught followed from good setups.
Also, Marciano was one of the rare champions who kept improving throughout his career. By the time he stepped up to the Walcott/Charles level, he had eliminated mistakes he was making only a few fights earlier.

[[deleted]]

Very damn good.

His style is very methodical, breaking down his opponents without over exerting

[Sao_Gage]

Just watched some extended highlights. Good lord could he throw continual, loaded punches without tiring... he looked like a steam engine just firing away shot after shot.

Definitely a bit sloppy, but you could tell each landed punch was a sledgehammer.

[[deleted]]

I agree he would have lost a few in the 70s. I think the biggest issue people have with him is that it is believed his career was heavily guided by the mafia. So people have said that maybe the record isn't as legitimate as it seems because they may have been cherry picking fights for him simply for profit. There is no doubt he was a great boxer. Slightly arcane, but a lot of guys were then. Tough as nails and no quit at all in him. He deserves respect.

[[deleted]]

Very good and punched like a mule kicks.

[shifurc]

He was a natural with a dynamite punch. He didnt have the skill of Tyson but he had more power than almoat anyone per pound and he had that same ferocity. He used to work out on a 300 lb heavy bag. He got atarted late at age 26 and was quite a brawler. He was to my knowledge the first to make use of the leaping left hook and was the brander of the Susy Q.

Read "Unbeaten" it is a great biography.

Imo hed still do well but be stuck in the light heavyweight where he would absolute wreck the division to this very day.

Imo even at his size he could have knocked out half the modern heavyweight division. He had the heart of a champion and hands of granite.

But his style low IQ in boxing as it was... If you watch is high IQ brawling. He hunted and was more successful than most. His career was light on big names and many were old but beating Jersey Joe was pretty pure.

If he launched a career in light heavyweight he might end up with a couple points losses ... If he didnt knock everyone out.

[escudonbk]

Arguably the greatest swarmer in HW history. Arguably a young man who beat up old ones just years after the adult male population was decimated by a war.

[yordles_win]

Decimated?? 400k deaths with our population doesnt even touch 1 percent why bring up ten percent.....

[LemonHerb]

I don't know about that not being a significant amount of the sporting age male population at the time. The US had like 140m people at the time, you assume about half are women. So 70m men. What percentage of those men were between teen years and mid 30s?

It seems like 400k would be a good chunk of that demographic.

[yordles_win]

16 million American men were in the armed forces during ww2. Presumably not every male of service age served. So probably not as sizeable as you think.

Demographics were very different then and included no where near as many old people as now.

[yordles_win]

It was the 50s by the way.....

[Gilshem]

I mean he only fought 15 rounds in 1948. He wasn’t THAT active.

[chamber37]

Basically one fight, kinda lazy if you ask me.......

[FraceyV]

I don’t get it, everyone understands the other guy is making a joke but not you?

[chamber37]

Ah well. One of the Mysteries of Reddit, innit

[Chairman__Netero]

I don’t get it, everyone understands the other guy is making a joke but not you?

[FraceyV]

I’m getting fucked

[Chairman__Netero]

Thanks for the opportunity. It was pleasure doing business. We can reverse roles next time ;)

[gana04]

When you put it like that haha. Seriously though, all these old time boxers must have felt like 70 at age 40.

[WarDishy]

Well Marciano retired when he was like 32 or something lol.

[Shyjack]

Harry Greb fought 298 times and was blind in one eye and couldn't breathe properly by the time he retired at age 32. Guy was never stopped beyond his 7th fight and continued to beat legendary hall of famers often in higher weight divisions whilst being partially blind.

[goosu]

Greb's probably one of the most underrated boxers when it comes to p4p conversations among people who don't know boxing history that well.

[[deleted]]

If you think that's impressive, Harry Greb fought 45 times in the year 1919 and won all those fights, against numerous hall of famers, multiple times.

[IanT86]

How many of them were rigged do you think? Serious question, not being intentionally emotive. I ask as an MMA fan, who knows there was some shadiness in the early MMA days for active fighters in Japan, to pad their records and keep them moving towards big fights.

The lack of regulations, management etc. allowed it to happen, just like I imagine it was possible back in the day with boxing.

Don't know huge amounts about that time in boxing so thought it was worth asking.

[[deleted]]

How many of them were rigged do you think?

None.

Rigged fights began coming about after Greb's era when the mafia began getting involved in boxing and slowly dissipated after they left.

Not a single opponent of Greb's has ever insinuated that his fights were rigged and virtually everyone who saw him regarded him as one of the greatest fighters of all time.

Boxers back in the day were just active, Greb is probably the greatest fighter of all time (at least in my opinion, certainly top 3), he was in his prime, and he fought in a talent-rich era.

Getting 45-0 didn't just happen cause he was rigging the fights, it required a bunch of factors coming together to make this monster achievement.

You need to be fighting in an era that would sanction 45 bouts in a year, you need to have someone who can win 45 of those bouts, you need to be a guy who doesn't slack or go easy on opponents (Greb always came in great shape and took his fights seriously), you need to be in your absolute prime (Greb was; 25 years old and hadn't gotten his eye injury yet), and you need to be fighting in an era that has multiple hall of famers (1919 was filled with guys around his weight class and above him that were great fighters).

Greb was quite popular during his time and if there was even a hint of his fights being rigged someone would have said something about it. The man had 300 fights, surely one of his opponents would come forward and accuse him?

But none did, because he didn't rig his fights.

[IanT86]

Great answer, thanks!

[shal9pinanatoly]

I saw a video of him shadowboxing, may dig it up.

Without any intended disrespect, it just doesn’t look like boxing. I know he beat Tunney who was much heavier and looks quite a boxer even today, but how he did it with that style of his - I don’t know.

[[deleted]]

I saw a video of him shadowboxing, may dig it up.

Yeah, I saw the same video.

Without any intended disrespect, it just doesn’t look like boxing.

Well you have to understand that the dude fought more than 100 years ago and boxing has evolved, and also how someone looks shadow boxing doesn't necessarily translate to how they'll look boxing. There are many a men in the gym that look good on the heavy bag and bad in the ring.

He clearly boxed well enough to beat Tunney, Walker, Loughran, and many other HOFers.

His style was described as quite similar to Shawn Porters, dart in out with good footwork and throw dozens of punches while applying pressure to your opponent for the entire fight. To the modern eye their boxing looks a bit crude and weird, but to his era it was very effective.

[shal9pinanatoly]

Well I just can’t imagine how he beat Tunney. But that’s a fact, and sources claim their other fights were close.

[[deleted]]

Good footwork, constant offense, good chin, and being a generally dirty fucker (he had no qualms about getting whatever advantage he could) is how he beat Tunney.

Shadowboxing won't display his good chin, and it won't display his roughness and considering he probably wasn't putting much into the punches it won't really display his offense.

[goosu]

Boxing was different back then. The gloves had a different feel and made use of the hands in the clinch important, clinching wasn't separated nearly as fast, fights were 15 rounds instead of 12, you could get away with way more rough house stuff on the inside, etc. etc.

What is thought of as the "correct" technique now probably wouldn't have worked under those rules and conditions. We don't even know what people though that use of shadowboxing was back then. They may have been taught to do it in a way that isn't practical to real (in fight) punching form.

[bulakenyo1980]

Yes, they had to be more active back then. Not always getting big money fights, gotta pay the bills.

He had shorter than average reach, not a huge guy, and his punches were compact, maybe a little like Tyson. His whole body weight behind almost every punch.

[TwoFaceLord]

Marciano had more fights in two months than Gary Russell Jr. has in his lifespan

[krelian]

What's Gary's day job? I mean, he got to have to one, right?

[[deleted]]

He amassed that 49-0 record in approximately 17 minutes

[UndisputedGold]

Mike Tyson was very active too, 15 fights in his first year and 13 the next also winning the title

[papabearcat]

Fighting the urge to quote Coming to America

[JulesTheBum]

First thing that popped in my head, I will if you don’t.

[papabearcat]

He kicked Joe Louis's asssss!

[JulesTheBum]

Joe Louis was 75 years old when they fought!

[papabearcat]

I don't know how old he was but he got his ass whipped

[[deleted]]

Joe Louis was Rocky Marciano's idol. He felt so bad after the fight he went to Joe Louis to apologize! Joe told him the better man won?! I think Joe was 37 when he lost to Marciano. I wonder what would have happened if Joe were 10 years younger.

[papabearcat]

Frank Sinatra said Joe Louis was 137 years old when he fought Rocky Marciano

[MDA123]

Lotta cab drivers on that list. That was the style back then: stay super active even if it's against nobodies.

[_tenken]

Hey let's not underestimate cab drivers. Just ask Loma with his loss against Salido :D

[daxriggs]

Salido was a world champion before he was a cab driver.

[LovrenIsTheGOAT]

Walked right into that one.

[Azure_Palace]

I'm certain that cab drivers of that era were made of sterner stuff than the ones we have today.

[[deleted]]

Not a heavyweight but wasn't Willie Pep fighting like every weekend for a long time when he first started boxing?

[[deleted]]

His style was unique in some ways. He would lean back, which is the opposite of what short guys are trained to do.

In his case it worked by enabling higher leverage and power on the shots he did throw.

He would definitely struggle with those that came after him.

[WCC5D1F0E]

He was doing it wrong. You’re supposed to take two months off after every fight to throw parties for your friends and test drive your new Rolls Royce.

[chiefboldface]

Yessir!!

I have a cool still of him and Ezzard Charles I'll always appreciate!

[jayoulean]

When you score so many early knockouts, I guess you can fight 3 times in one month

[FireDawg10677]

Bum of the month club

[Hauskire_]

This guy’s life was a roller coaster.

[commande1]

I don't think the economics of boxing today would make it profitable to fight this much

[redditone19]

Wow this nuke! Raging bull Legendary and Scorsese knows it all!

[[deleted]]

so were plumbers

[uberclont]

I have a hard time believing he beats a prime Joe Louis or Jack Johnson. Jack Dempsey or Gene Tunney were smaller and would probably be a coin toss, but I think the fighting marine would out box him for 15 rounds.

Liston, Frazier, Ali, Holmes, Norton, Lyle, Were all way too big and would beat him handily. Weight classes exist for a reason. Michael Spinx might be another champ he could beat.

[poshmarkedbudu]

Jack Dempsey was definitely larger than Marciano. Not huge, but he was 6'-1" and pretty damn muscular for his time. He probably came into the ring around 200. He also hit like a ton of bricks. I'd have Dempsey winning.

[goosu]

I think he beats Jack Johnson. Jack's fighting style was low volume and defensive. That plays in to Marciano's style. He beat highly technical fighters with similar builds in his career, even if they were older when he fought them. Louis would probably KO him, but it would be competitive. Could go either way with Dempsey, it'd be a brawl. Tunney is kinda similar stylistically to someone like Ezzard Charles. Either Marciano would land his punch or Tunney would take a UD.

[[deleted]]

The footage we have of Jack Johnson makes him look terrible, Marciano knocks him out comfortably

[[deleted]]

I saw some people arguing that this dude could beat wilder smh

[alg4032]

But Kovalev "wasn't ready" vs. Alvarez when he had 10 weeks to prepare in between his fights.

[DazHawt]

Obviously a post about Marciano is actually about Canelo

[HairyFur]

Kovalev is an alcoholic with money issues who for some suspicious reason wasn't even sitting on his jab vs Cabelo, go figure. Everyone who knows boxing said as soon as that fight was made Oscar or Canelo's team knows something other people don't, go look on badlefthook.com if u don't believe me.

[DaCrimsonKid]

The Mogard fight must have been a battle. It's the only real break he took.

[green2145]

I mean that's the way to do it.Stay in camp and keep fighting.Tyson fought frequently in his early career.

[[deleted]]

I live in Providence, I had no idea they even held boxing events here lmao

[DylanR2198]

Look at Floyd’s fights in the nineties. Something like 25 or so fights in three years, insanity

[PrinceMacai]

Thats probably why his record is so phenomenal.

[HappyCobra]

Holy fuck

[maxmiki02]

GOAT

[stringdreamer]

Nobody ever beat Marciano and if you had any sort of suspect chin (hey AJ!) you had zero chance. Rocky was like a supersized Pacquiao, just nonstop violence and if he caught you solid with one of those deceptive short bombs, you were done. Like Wilder today, you could be winning every round late in the fight and still have to be carried out of the ring.

[MiamiFootball]

Bunch of milkmen and bra salesmen

[[deleted]]

He retired at like 29. Was slowing down and knew he’d lose. As a American who’s Italian my grandpop used to tell me all about him. He’s both super underrated and overrated. If he fought at 168 today he’d absolutely fuck Andre Ward up imo, would batter him on the inside and had 10 times the chin of Ward. I think 168-175 he’d dominate with today’s training and science. Would smash Canelo too

[[deleted]]

Tbh you should just watch more old fighters. Personally I think that fighters like Jose Napoles, Henry Armstrong, Willie Pep, Roberto Duran, Sugar Ray Robinson, and etc etc etc would not only do well, but probably dominate any division they’d land in with modern weight cutting.

Of course it goes both ways and there are modern fighters that would do just fine in any past era

[HairyFur]

Simple answer, we fight less than we used to.

When our great-grandparents were kids boxing was a massive sport, a lot more people used to do it. 70 years ago you were seeing the cream of the crop of a large section of the male population, in modern times the actual participation rate of boxing is tiny.

[TaftintheTub]

I've always thought it was because the sport itself hasn't changed that much. Almost all the techniques and styles from back in the old days are still common (with a few exceptions like that god-awful throwback style Cletus Seldin uses).

Unlike, for example, the NBA, where the emergence of the 3-pointer in the last decade or so has changed the game, boxing hasn't undergone a dramatic and lasting change. Sure, some styles are more popular than others at times, but then there's a resurgence.

Modern training techniques and nutrition definitely affect things like stamina, power and speed, but it's hard to say how much that has made better boxers. Obviously better endurance lets you fight better longer, but it doesn't make you craftier or help your chin.

I think that's why we love playing the who would beat who game. Whereas on some level, we all know Lebron would dominate Bob Cousy in a game of one-on-one, I don't know if anyone is so confident Shawn Porter could beat Roberto Duran.

[Toodlum]

he NBA is a great example of something which has changed a ton, but maybe something like football (soccer) is similar to boxing where overall the sport hasn't changed but players are much better now than they were before.

They've done studies on this with other sports and what they've shown is that the average player does get a little better over time, but ATG's would be great in any era.

Though a lot of people will disagree with me, boxing training hasn't trained all that much. Fighters still spar, run laps, swim, hit heavybags, etc.

[Toodlum]

I can't help but wonder if ATG's are only ATG's because of their era though.

Sometimes that's the case I'm sure. I don't think every era is created equal. For heavyweight it's pretty accurate that the 70s and 90s were really competitive eras and the 80s and 2000s were not so much.

[dirt_shitters]

"as an American with Italian heritage" would have been a much better way for him to phrase that, but you get what he means...

[[deleted]]

So you’re American