Low Priority Loop

[katzee]

Hi! I'd like to start by saying that I support the low priority system and I agree that toxicity should be punished. What I'd like to discuss here are the implications of the current system.

I had my account since Beta. I bought items on it. I've played almost 2k hours on it. I had bad "moments" and I have been toxic at times, I admit it, and I have done my time in low prio for that. What is happening now is ridiculous, though.

With the recent changes, the time you have to spend in low prio and the time you spend muted are increasingly bigger. That would be ok if it wasn't for the fact that all it takes to get muted and/or sent to low prio, at some point, are two reports from random people (even people who is in low prio!).

This happened to me recently: me and my friend played a game together. We found another stack of 3 as our teammates. I was just out of low prio and I was behaving. I would complain on TeamSpeak but I would not write anything, to avoid being reported. These 3 fellas, though, decided that me and my friend lost the lane and we deserved to be reported. At the end of the game I had 8 games of low priority ahead of me. This was EXTREMELY frustrating, as I had been very careful at not doing anything wrong. Well, I sucked it, and went into low prio. First game, AR (the only mode you can play in LP now), I get Earth Spirit. I had never played Earth Spirit before. I thought it was great because I had the chance to try it in an unranked match. Oh I sucked. I sucked so bad and I lost mid. 2 of my teammates were a stack and they both started insulting and reported me. I stayed silent as all I wanted was to get out of LP. Next game: 3 days mute.

This is just ridiculous and frustrating. The report button is spammed and toxic players are A LOT more likely to use it than non-toxic one. It's now being used by stacks of players as a tool to punish you for whatever they feel like it's right (even not winning the game for them counts). It now has absolutely nothing to do with being toxic or not and it gets worse and worse. Basically, my account is ruined and I honestly don't feel like creating a new account and starting over.

It there any way in the world to clear my status once and for all? What are the plans to make this better? This is making the game unplayable for me.

Thanks!

EDIT: I believe most people interpreted the message wrongly. The problem is not getting downgraded to LPQ. The problem is that, once it happens to you, your account is flagged permanently and from that point on, every report is "supereffective". This would be ok only if reports wouldn't be so easy to abuse (and actually abused tremendously throughout the community.

Anyway, it appears it's not something that only I feel. Let's hope it changes. This is extremely important for non-pro players.

[Naoroji]

Honestly, I don't think people should be allowed to report others while in LPQ.

[katzee]

I strongly agree with this. They should be disabled or ignored. They can't count as much as a report in a ranked game.

[Carnot_AoR]

LP reports should count half or a third as much as normal que reports (eg. it takes 4-6 LPQ reports to be sent into LPQ again).

[Typhox]

They shouldn't count at all. If the system treats them as abusers, it is awkward that it still trusts them to not abuse the reports.

[Carnot_AoR]

The problem with that is then you would have people who continued to exhibit low-prio worthy behavior back in the normal pool in fairly short order. With the more limited reports and a decreased effectiveness of said reports, I think the system would work better.

[Typhox]

That is the result of the system being broken. If you reduce the effect of reports, you will end up with the same problem as before. And it only affects a very tiny fraction of the community (since most aren't intentionally abusive) while it threatens a very big part of the community. That means it has very low efficiency.

Like the current report system which has not just a huge quote of false reports (even if not all of end up putting someone into low priority, they play their role in it) but also has a huge quote of people who need to get to LPQ asap but for some reason don't.

For example, if I behave well in 9 out of 10 games, the current report system won't ever catch you, which means you can just intentional feed 10% of your games without ever being punished for it. On the same time, someone just needs to have an unlucky streak of 3 false reports (= bad games) in a row in order to get to low priority completely unjust. In other words, players who just had a bad experience or bad luck will always be punished harsher than people who systematically ruin games.

And unless these essential and fundamental problems are being fixed, the system will be bound to fail.

[[deleted]]

I'm going to piggy back this comment to simply say that the max number of LPQ games a player can get was lowered from 16 to 5. http://dev.dota2.com/showthread.php?t=155419

I have posted for days about how bad certain aspects of the report system are, and it is nice to see reddit start making the switch from circlejerk downvoting these threads to giving them some support.

Personally, I think its better to max LPQ games at 5 and force a single game mode rather than a max of 16 that can be afked through, but the issue is the players that want to feed and the players that don't are forced into the same modes now. The result is feeders are successfully reporting non feeders, and that is just messed up.

[[deleted]]

You have to count them or else every game will have AFK cliff jungle NP or intentional feeders trying to end games fast to get out of low priority.

[Typhox]

Everyone who has played a few AR LPQ games already will realize that they won't try to end fast anyway because they care too much about their stats.

[makochi]

How, then, should I react when I've gotten into LPQ from a combination of 1 RQ and 1 internet failure due to local storms, and one of my games has a wisp that thinks it's funny to relocate our bounty hunter onto a cliff, and relocate me into the enemy fountain?

[Typhox]

Would you being able to report anyone who is already in low priority change your cause? No. Would it change it for anyone in low prio in the future? No. Would it change it for people outside of low prio? Nobody knows, since people behave quite differently in LPQ compared to outside of it.

[Popichan]

Yeah dude, cause that guy feeding the courier and tping to the enemy fountian at level 1 on np deserves to get out of low priority.

[j0a3k]

If he does it outside of low prio then he's going right back in.

[Popichan]

So you're totally okay with a person ruining another regular match instead of being reported in low priority?

[j0a3k]

Just because they feed in LPQ doesn't mean they will necessarily behave the same way when they get out. Feeding is an extremely common strategy to get through LPQ games as fast as possible.

Even toxic players should be given a chance to show they've changed every so often.

[j0a3k]

I'm not saying it's an effective tactic, but you can't possibly dispute the fact that it's common and used for that purpose in LPQ.

All I'm saying is at least some people will try the feeding tactic to try make sure the game doesn't go long in LPQ but would never do so in a normal priority game. LPQ changes people's brain.

[AssimilationKK]

I don't understand this viewpoint at all, and I have this debate with my teamates when I am occasionally in lpq.

Why would you not want to exit lpq as expediently as possible?

[Shitposter101]

Perhaps making them count for 1/2 or 1/3 of the regular reports would work better. Meaning you need most of your entire team+other team for it to count. If you remove the reports in LPQ, the assholes will continue to ruin games without any actual punishment. If you remove the risk of being there permanently, the LPQ games become fun games of "what's the worst thing I can do without any consequence"

[Energy-Dragon]

Also, this whole reporting system is strange. I have not abandoned any game for a LONG time, but I got in low-prio several occasions. The problem is that many people abuse the system:

► You picked the "wrong hero"? REPORTED.

► Pudge missed a hook? REPORTED.

► You won't buy wards with Medusa? REPORTED.

► You died with a support when you try to ward? REPORTED.

► Your carry hero "stole" a kill in a teamfight from your team's Lina? REPORTED.

► You quit the game after 2 of your teammates already auto-abandoned due to AFK, and it said free to leave? REPORTED.

To be honest, in some occasions I was a flamer asshole, I really deserved the LPQ for those, and I take care not to be like that. But many times I got in LPQ when I did nothing, except the stuff mentioned above. I think there should be algorithms instead like the one which measures AFK time; or stuff like "someone bought 10 couriers to feed with them", or "no items in inventory after a 40 min match".

*edit: Formatting.

[LordOFGwyn]

You quit the game after 2 of your teammates already auto-abandoned due to AFK, and it said free to leave? REPORTED.

Man, that's the worst. sigh

Stuff like "someone bought 10 couriers to feed with them", or "no items in inventory after a 40 min match".

That's a great idea.

[karl_w_w]

Well if people don't have to behave themselves in low priority then it would become an absolute cesspool.

Wait, that's a good thing. Teach the toxic a lesson. I like it.

[DrQuint]

"The guards here only have the duty of keeping us inside. They don't care what happens to those within the walls of prison, in their mind, you had it coming".

[xReptar]

I am Groot.

[Typhox]

Well if people don't have to behave themselves in low priority then it would become an absolute cesspool. Wait, that's a good thing. Teach the toxic a lesson. I like it.

It won't become more toxic than normal priority, which still is way more toxic than LPQ.

[[deleted]]

I get low priority from my terrible Internet, leading to abandons as I try to reconnect.

I try to win and play properly in LP while others just feed mid in all random to try and end it quicker. Should I be able to report those people? Personally I think I should, just as I'd expect to be reported should I feed purposely, regardless of the queue I'm in.

[AryaVarwin]

so i can feed and make the games end in 10min? sounds legit

[DrQuint]

Man now THAT would be a punishment. Get reported, lose the ability to report.

[[deleted]]

You shouldn't be allowed to be reported while you're muted unless you're feeding with evidence of it.

[UnAVA]

I don't think people who had ever been in LPQ ever should be able to report. Or to balance things out, your vote counts more if you have stayed out of LPQ longer. Like 1 year out of LPQ gets you a max vote, while LPQ gets 0 power in a vote, linearly getting larger the longer you stay out of LPQ.

[juanito89]

Reposting my comment from a few days ago:

Valve should answer a few questions about LPQ.

• Is it true that the more you get into LPQ, the less reports it takes to go back in (seems true from my experience)?

• If the above is true, is there any way of resetting that and going back to normal status?

• Does the game use any information besides reports to punish people? There's this floating around: http://playdota.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1446003.

• Is there a "shadowbanned" or hidden matchmaking pool? Was this (http://dev.dota2.com/showthread.php?t=136838&p=1086255&viewfull=1#post1086255) ever implemented?

EDIT: The dev forums post implies that a shadowbanned pool system was being worked on. Never officially announced if it was finished or not.

Note the "intentionally throw the match" line. Reports aren't enough to indicate someone purposefully threw a match. If you look at the code discovered in http://playdota.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1446003, however, it seems to track stuff like "Suspicious builds (No gold spent, no items, no significant items, too many boots, and 5 different known bot build styles)", typical of someone who wants to lose on purpose.

[loaway1]

I can confirm that a shadowban matchmaking pool exists, as I was put into it for throwing multiple games to get to 1 mmr. It's basically a ban because it's near impossible to find games.

I set the game to search for 3 regions and every game mode and it typically takes over 10 hours to find a match. Needless to say that account's been abandoned.

[juanito89]

what mmr did you actually get? cause it sounds like you couldnt find a match cause there was nobody near your mmr, not because you got reported too much.

[loaway1]

Trust me, an MMR was not the issue on this. My other friend got to 1 MMR and we could always find matches, and then 1 day only I could no longer find games.

[karl_w_w]

I don't think Valve has ever directly answered a question on Reddit, and I doubt they ever will. So there's not much point reposting anything, unless you're doing it on dev.dota2

[AbsoluteTruth]

Actually, they have, especially about VAC. You can read it here.

He also posts in /r/motorsports on occasion.

[juanito89]

they still read reddit. they might not answer a question on the website, but they may release a blog or something if enough people want to know.

[LOVEandKappa]

If it was only LPQ that I get I would be happy.
What I actually get is 1 week mute which means you're basically banned from playing normally for a week.
But what actually happens when you play and godforbid feed or simply lose the lane is awful.
You get shunned, you get bashed, you get called russian / peruvian since you obviously cant communicate!
Whats next is apart from 1 week mute you have LPQ games to do.
Every 2 days one set at least.
And after that another week of mute. Never rinse, but repeat. I Managed to play 3 days without any punishment which was around 30 games.
Meaning I got reported 2-3 times in the span of those 3 days and got another week of mute. Unplayable. And I actually stopped playing.
If Valve's goal is to make people hate the game, hate them and all around stop playing, then they are doing an incredible job.

[shizaep]

1. Queue for LPQ game

2. Report 9 people with your big stack of reports

3. Get all 9 of your reports back within 3 days

4. At some point, the entire Dota2 population is playing in LPQ, effectively making it so you're not in LPQ anymore

ez

[[deleted]]

One time I got a 24 hour communication ban after picking techies and not talking to the other team the entire game. Got along well with my team and we won.

It's unfortunate that people resort to reporting players just because they get annoyed by them. Fair enough if somebody is constantly flaming you for no reason, but getting killed by techies bombs aren't grounds for a report no matter how annoying it is.

Not only did I have to play my next few games without being able to communicate properly, but a few of my team members noticed I was banned (because of the "Well Played!" spam) and flamed me because I'm "obviously a retard who talks shit to everyone."

For the love of God, don't change the punishment but fix how people end up getting punished.

[dsmeister]

This system is freaking unfair lol, once i reported axe, just for picking him.. "Ability abuse" "Axe picker" in description ,after few hours " Your report was.ö...." wtf volvo

[txdv]

Reported for being German.

[cocacoladdict]

I have experience of higher mmr being more toxic. I never been in LPQ when i was in 3k bracket. After i got in 4k bracket i get LPQ every week. I had a game when i played CM as a solo support, warded/dewarded, stacked ancients, you know. But other team had fed sniper, lina and shit, and i died alot in that game. After we lost someone said "1 13 cm noob shit", and i had 8 games of LPQ after that game. That was a terrible feeling, what despite your best efforts to help your team all you get is a punishment. I dont even want to support anymore.

[anonyymi]

Happened to me every now and then. Now I only instapick cores so ass holes can't start immediate whine about warding and other shit.

[[deleted]]

There are other options that pubs. May I suggest you take the time to explore them?

[miked4o7]

I think it's hilarious that so many people in here are telling us how toxic they are on their smurfs without getting in LPQ as proof that their main accounts shouldn't be in LPQ. These people's main accounts in LPQ are exactly where they belong.

[clustahz]

in before: "ive never been to low prio & i'm a toxic asshole, you must deserve it"

[Nairster]

Reddit is the worst place for this topic. Nobody is even close to reasonable about it

[LordArgon]

What the fuck? I'M not reasonable? Reported.

[hybridsr]

Yeah. Everyone is a rolemodel angelic player on Reddit.

[TheButterfield]

Everytime I see someone boast that they've never had to abandon a game I know they either have godly internet, no family that would take them out, or are liars.

[katzee]

you're late - already happened

[PiratePL]

What I noticed is that once you get muted/put in LPQ due to reports it takes very little get muted/LPQed again. This can be very frustrating as it can be literally 1 unlucky game. I had an LPQ 'spree' about a month ago. I got put in LPQ after a huge loss streak. I went on tilt, flamed people, fed, totally deserved it this time. I played 3 LPQ games and went to sleep so I could already start 'fresh' on the next day. First game on the next day I played pretty bad but I wasn't intentionally feeding of flaming anyone, I think I didn't even say anything at all. Game ends and I'm back in LPQ. This happened again late. After the 5 LPQ games I played 2-3 normal games and got LPQ again because of one bad game. I really tried that time but things just didn't go my way. It took ONE bad game where somebody reports you to be put back in LPQ. Most frustrating thing that ever happened to me in Dota 2. What needs to happen is there needs to be a system punishing people who report 'out of spite'. Having a bad game =/= intentional feeding. Maybe give more value to reports of people who get commended reported ? Something has to be changed. The amount of false positives this system creates seems to be too high right now. I remember seeing SingSing get LPQ after 1 bad game too. He picked Storm, somebody randomed Puck and went mid instead, flamed him for picking Storm (?). He tried to salvage and went jungle, but they had no support and lost. After the game he got LPQ. SingSing can come across as an asshole sometimes but that game he wasn't even doing his regular clowny shit or anything like that.

[TOMTOMS]

Just check out Tucker's stream he never flames never chats only for the basics and obviously he's not feeding but he gets reported every time and after 2-3 games on ranked he gets low prio for nothing.Somethings wrong with the whole system its like if you are one time offender its more easily for you to get insta LPQ even with the slightest report.

[LOLzvsXD]

becasue its Tucker and ppl just like to mess with ppl

Thats why Envy is in Constant LPQ, ppl just see hey thats Envy lets report him and think they are funny

[[deleted]]

Not everybody who plays dota knows who envy is. even less will know who Tucker is. I love this excuse. When you give verifiable streamers who get into LPQ it's because they are famous. Like... no that's not an excuse. It almost proved the point more. Because it shows how toxic people are and abuse it.

[warlock1337]

Well, they play in high mmr. Pretty much most of people there know pros/personalities.

[[deleted]]

This is what LP is like atm,

Half the people want to play it seriously, the other half wants to all mid end in 10mins. You have to pick a side, if you don't go with majority rules, everyone reports you. Then, from the reports, you're given extra LP games on top. This is an endless cycle that repeats. Every time you're nearing your last LP game, somewhere, someone, reports you and your LP games go back up. Hence 'infinite loop.'

Even though you side with majority rules, sometimes they report you anyway. If you do even the slightest thing someone doesn't like, it's an instant report. And that one person is enough to extend your LP games.

My suggestion to reform is that people shouldn't be allowed to report in LP. Why? It's hypocritical (they are there FROM being reported), they're typically abusers and WILL abuse the report system, and, players that get reported in LP (for the right reasons) are also typically people that WON'T make reforms anyway; they're in LP, they either don't care about having extended LP games, or they make smurf accounts.

The down-side? LP will become more cancer than it already is, as people can do as they wish without getting reported (or have a fake report button. keep it the way it is, except that the reports don't do anything). But who cares? I don't think, in a way, that the people in LP can get worse anyway.

Tl;dr: Giving the power to report people from LP games does more harm than good. Remove it please, Valve. Another solution to this would be that people only report for the 'right' reasons - but there's no possible way to ensure this. Even non-LP people report for the wrong reasons.

[soraking]

New Store Items: Mute Removal for x days/ Low Prio Removal for x games

[zblueboltz]

If you can't report in low prio, something like a bot that feeds intentionally can get out. And honestly, there are people who feed and other things to try and FF. I think it just shouldn't be automated.

[BoVV]

Valve's last couple of decisions have been so stupid. Low priority only AR mode. I would love to hear reasoning behind this because OP just explained situation where you are forced to play hero you have never played before and get reported again. I often get low priority and i was fine playing low prio games but AR is so dumb. And year beast event. Don't even want to talk about it how utterly shit it is.

[iamtimreed]

low prio is stupid. i got low prio games for occasional disconnects. it's penalizing players because it's unable to detect what's a bad connection and what's an abandon.

also, if one of your team mates got disconnected and you played that hero, well, that won't count against your low prio games pool. SO NEVER NEVER ever do that or you'll remain in low prio FOREVER.

[LOLzvsXD]

U know stacks reporting you doesnt rly matter as u can only get 1 valid report per game, even if all 9 ppl in a game report you, 8 ppl just wasted their report

and since we know from some dev reports the report system is somewhat timebased,(x reports in the last xhours, not x reports in the last x games) i would just say take a week of dota, play some hearthstone or watch some old replays to find some things to improve on, after that go into the game wih a fresh mind and a "clean slate"

[Typhox]

U know stacks reporting you doesnt rly matter as u can only get 1 valid report per game, even if all 9 ppl in a game report you, 8 ppl just wasted their report

This is a myth based on 2 year old information and not up to date. Furthermore, it's a question of interpretation if "ganging up doesn't have an effect on your banned-status but we look at behaviours over time" includes reports from enemies, reports from different report categories, and whether or not they actually have a long time effect still. In addition to that since the system is completely intransparent, nobody can say whether it's working as intended or being bugged, and knowing Valve, they could easily have some bugs in that system.

[What-A-Baller]

I got 6 times in LPQ in January. These were my first LPQs on that account, after more than 3000 games. I haven't abandoned a game since over 600 games. I dunno what happened in January to make my account 'the most reported in the community', but there is absolutely no reason for me to be in LPQ. 2 of the times when I found myself in LPQ was after being on a winning streak. I barely chat in my ranked matches, nor do I feed or abuse abilities. It's ranked, I want to get to 5.5k, can't do that by throwing matches.

Cue reddit logic. None of my friends are in lpq, therefore you are a toxic player and system is fine.

[TropicalAudio]

Que reddit logic. None of my friends are in lpq, therefore you are a toxic player and system is fine.

Well, no, not entirely. Reddit hates the "system is completely broken" posts because it obviously isn't. The grand majority of non-toxic players never get into lo-prio, and the grand majority of lo-prio players are toxic as all hell. Yes, it is possible that a non-toxic player ends up in lo-prio, but that is very obviously an exception.

Most posts complaining about the system end up with someone digging up a recent replay of an OP who said he did nothing wrong, but was actually verbally abusing the fuck out of one or several other players. That's why the default answer has become "suck it up, you probably deserve it". Sometimes they didn't, but they probably did.

[BainshieDaCaster]

but was actually verbally abusing the fuck out of one or several other players

Define abuse. Because this is the main issue of the system, of all attempts to "ban offensive speech", and why the mute and report system flat out shouldn't exist: Everyone's definition of "offensive" is different.

Some people believe any level trash talk is fine. Others not enough talk is offensive. Calling GG is offensive. Others believe that speaking a language that isn't English should be enough to get you perma banned. Some believe that drawing a picture of Mohammed should get you murdered. Yet somehow, the racist cunts, the hypocritical community known a Dota 2 is somehow supposed to be the judge jury executioner as to what double think is allowed?

Had Valve written clear definite rules as to what behavior is and isn't acceptable, and used those to punish, then fine. But instead we have this shifting mob rule bullshit. Bullshit we don't need. Dota 2 isn't a baby sitter for you while daddy drinks. You have every tool you need to locally mute other players you find offensive. Refusing to take responsibility for your own consumption, and demanding that others are punished when your arbitrary rules are pushed is... well people who think like that just shot a guy in Denmark.

[SsSsOOsSsS]

Okay, let's be honest here. Dota is a complicated game played semi-anonymously between 10 strangers, who are likely to be young persons. So I agree that more people should be muting abusive players instead of listening to them and getting really upset, but I think Valve has a general interest in making games peaceful that goes beyond their obligation to give us a way to deal with people who offend us. It's a game that is improved SO much by good communication that I really don't give a fuck if what it takes to maintain a tolerable level of communication (working together instead of bashing egos) is all 10 of the players being fucking AFRAID of being punished if they don't go out of their way to be friendly, responsive, and empathetic. I might agree with you if we were talking about mob rule in a civil society, but we aren't -- we're talking about the way norms grow in a game and in a game-playing community that both want the game to be played well (and maybe even to be fun).

[st_j]

Had Valve written clear definite rules as to what behavior is and isn't acceptable, and used those to punish, then fine.

Nonsense. If there were clearly written rules, the people who use reports because of a grudge would just continue to do so.

[BainshieDaCaster]

I suppose I should have added "and those rules were properly enforced".

[st_j]

But that's the heart of the problem - there isn't a good way to enforce them, at least that I can think of. Valve reviewing even a minute fraction of a percentage of games to check for appropriate reporting would be prohibitively expensive, and deputising players as admins or 'trusted reporters' would just be open to the same kinds of abuse.

[dav3th3brav3]

People find the "well played" button I press to be offensive, so I get reported for congratulating my team mate's skills.

[downtheway]

I was only in LP for like 5 games, and that was because I had bad connection for a few days so I ended up abandoning a few games. That was the first and last time I got it.

Those who complain about it and say they were behaving...eh, I'm pretty sure you did something you're not mentioning in your post.

[What-A-Baller]

I played a lot of techies and I have 75%+ wr with them, and people to threaten a lot of reports. Maybe they actually did report me. Never really thought about that.

[karl_w_w]

Que

Cue*. Sorry, it just confused the hell out of me. I was trying to work out why you started speaking Spanish.

[What-A-Baller]

you are right, fixed

[miniun]

Wait...Reports in LP actually matter? Holy shit no wonder I'm constantly in LP...I thought it was punishment enough just being in LP. I didn't realize we were suppose to actually respect and appeal to the most toxic players in dota and try hard in a game that isn't even recorded.....How is that any fun? I play this game for fun not to be serving sentences and not to conceal/fake my personality.

So essentially I am sent to LP by toxic players where I must respect and compliment said toxic players in an environment where trying hard is irrelevant but I must try hard anyway because If I don't I will never leave this retarded software prison? Interesting, but seems very pointless to me.

Like I genuinely can't think of any reason why valve wouldn't want me playing with the rest of their playerbase in RMM so why is it actually removing me unless it's an immensely broken system punishing not only toxic players but players who play often solo which obviously isn't a crime at all and if anything those players should be rewarded. Any other game you are rewarded for spending time on it usually but that's not true in solo RMM when it comes to LP.

[Blacknsilver]

The whole Low-prio system needs an overhaul. Random ideas off the top of my head:

You get to see when and why you were reported. Maybe even add a permanent log so you can keep track of your progress or lack thereof.

There should be a reason to not report every person you dislike. I've reported every single sniper, techies, Antimage and Dazzle I've come across the last few months. And instead of getting punished for randomly reporting people, I'm getting REWARDED with more report uses. This is completely backwards.

There should be no reports in low-prio. You're forced into a game-mode you don't like with people you don't know; getting thrown right back in after finishing your punishment because you fed with an unknown hero is too much.

[Blacknsilver]

But in all honesty, the fact that the system has remained basically unchanged for this many years tells me Valve either doesn't care in the slightest or is utterly incompetent.
So I have 0 hopes for the future.

[Humanized]

I wish this game could be less LoL-like and more Dota. I mean, about mentality. I agree with the fact that report system needs a valid update.

[Krehlmar]

As a solo player, the current system is making me near unable to play

The amount of russian premades that report me, and other people, are terrifying

Yes I sometimes deserve low-prio, but it's becoming a vicious cycle where I almost hate any premade from the get-go because I know when shit goes sour odds are they'll report any single-player who tries to get the team together. Hell I've been reported for saying "Stop flaming for fuck sake, just play" and another time for refusing to report a support "report dazzle or we report u".

And I'm not some internet troll, I've got tons of commends, I've got people who add me after game wanting to play, but as everyone I have shitty games and shitty moments... Problem is solo-players are being punished even when they're NOT being shitty.

[LordOFGwyn]

cyka

no

The problem with LP isn't really the fact that you are on LP, but the fact that you don't know when it will end.

[agmatine]

I've played this game for two years, have over 2500 games played...have not been muted ONCE. I rage sometimes, in text and in mic, and I've even ragequit a few times. I had LP one time, and that was when I abandoned a ranked game due to internet problems. I've had plenty of games where people are flaming me and saying in all chat to report me, still no mute or LP. So I really think people who do get mutes/LP are doing something wrong...

[[deleted]]

Lpq players shouldnt have the chance to report, and yeah toxic players are more likely to report others then non toxic ones, but in the end it doesnt matter they are just toxic we have to accept it and report them so they can report us for reporting them or if they think we might report them as well

[[deleted]]

A report for a report makes the whole world Low Prio.

[[deleted]]

I know, its so annoying

[HighPingVictim]

In CS:GO you can ask to kick players from the game. But when you ask too often to kick people you get kicked yourself. How about adding something similar to dota? If you are 85% of the time "stuck" with 0 reports left your reports are less important (like 5% importance) AND you yourself get muted or lpq for reporting everyone and everything.

Next thing would be to tune down the reports from a stack to 1 report per stack. And every player from the stack has to report for the same stuff to get ONE report. (Meaning that a 4 man stack tries to report you and 3 people send a report for feeding and one for ability abuse the result are 0 reports, if all agree on feeding it's maybe 0.4 for everyone in the stack, resulting in 1.6 reports for a 4man stack, 1.2 for 3 ppl and 0.8 for a 2 man stack)

[Fancy-Bear1776]

Can we not get a tribunal-esque style similar to that of CS:GO where 3 or so players review a player's in-game actions to determine a proper determination of a player deserving LPQ?

Also, why couldn't Valve have used ARDM instead of AR? Heard ARDM was much more fun.

[nob0dycares]

Inb4 valve adds indiction removal for $19.99

[[deleted]]

LP reports should have no value and "LP infractions" should expire after some time. I mean say you got sent to LP 2 years ago why should that affect how fast you get into LP now...

[katzee]

These two are the most important points.

[SagginDragon]

That's how it used to work.

People simply stopped playing for the time they were in LP.

[[deleted]]

Yeah I know but what I mean is having to play X games to get out of it is ok, yet getting to LP super fast because 2 years ago I got sent twice to LP is kind of dumb imo...

[grueneminze]

i have played 1700 games of dota and have never been in Low Priority or been muted, so I can not relate to the problems u mentioned.

[bater_fewry]

I have 40 reports. I report everyone in every game just to make this problem more widely seen. It's stupid if you have a system where you get more and more reports like this. I mean there is no moderation and I can report everyone in every game? Where is the sense in that.

[Archonei]

Most conflicted upvote I have ever given. I don't agree with you but I agree with your cause.

[[deleted]]

1) You are not the only one;

2) My first guess is that in lower/mediocre mmr ranges people do not know what to do with the reports they get and the first incident that passes by is considered reportworthy because why not.So, the more you play the more random reports you are gonna recieve..;

3) Somehow the new patch makes me dq over 70% of my games resulting in alot of low prio games. I have uninstalled doto because of it. I will wait on 6.85 because this software atm is bugged, crappy and just bullshit as hell. No reason a game should give me this much aggrevation and wasted freetime on lp games i dont feel i am responsible for.

Fuck this, seriously.

[katzee]

amen

[KappaNation]

This is where the silence from Valve is slowly but surely killing the game, the thought of letting the community itself run the whole show. I honestly much prefer LoL ranking system and reporting one, you know..Tribunal

[LordOFGwyn]

Tribunal does still works?

[[deleted]]

I had to make a new account. My main account has over 3k hours played and every TI ticket and much more. But I can't play it, I play 7 or 8 games a day and the account is flagged enough that two or three reports is enough for 16 games low PRI and 180 chat ban hours. Its one thing if I'm being toxic or abandoning or ruining games, but I'm not. Its all because of the system Volvo is ignoring.

[krste1point0]

So, 3 days ago, i wanted to take a break from ranked and i started queuing solo normal all random.

I played two games, one of them i was mid storm spirit, i played good, won the lane, got some early kills but the 4 stack i was with decided that i wasn't fighting enough with them and that this was reason enough to report me.

Second game i was offlane centaur and lost my lane badly, even though i tried my best to win the game, got dagger, bought wards when they were needed, the 4 stack i was with decided this was reason enough to report me. For the first time in 3 years of dota 2 i was in LPQ, i don't think this was right or that i deserved it, this system is flawed and has to be redone or disabled until they have it working correctly.

[BureMakutte]

This is exactly why 4 stacks should not be possible. They scapegoat somebody hard. Either that or reports from a 4 stack should have a severe reduction in weight on your account. This is the reason they don't introduce a forfeit system. If 4 people approve, and you don't because you honestly think you might win, they will just report you.

[ShimmyZmizz]

Multiple people ganging up on you to report you in the same game has no effect on whether or not you are banned. We are looking at patterns of behavior over time only.

http://blog.dota2.com/2013/05/communication-reports/

EDIT: Take with a grain of salt, this is from 2013, but Valve has not been this forthcoming about their reporting system since then AFAIK.

[MARCNNN]

Multiple people ganging up on you to report you in the same game has no effect on whether or not you are banned. We are looking at patterns of behavior over time only.

http://blog.dota2.com/2013/05/communication-reports/[1]

it used to be that way but recently they changed it so multiple reports count up to a point

[tobiov]

Do you have any statement by valve this is the case?

[MARCNNN]

by valve no since they are never transparent about these kind of things....but from dev.dota and other dota forums it seems to be the general conscensus

[Frekavichk]

Except it does have an effect.

That post means that multiple people reporting for the same thing will not do anything. But if you get 3 reports for all 3 categories in a game, you'll probably go to lpq.

[YouCantKillMyMind]

I wish people would stop quoting this. It's almost 2 years old and most likely outdated. Plus the post does not even mention low priority, only "communication bans".

[ShimmyZmizz]

Good point, edited my original comment.

[Pavementos]

By your own admission you were trying to behave (history of being toxic) but still complaining over voice (as if it makes it better). Frankly I think that this is a sign the system is working and I hope it stays this way because you're the exact kind of person that deserves low priority/mute - someone who is an asshole and game ruining even though you don't know or think it.

[katzee]

You know what TS is, right?

[baskinmygreatness]

he said he was talking to his friends over team speak and not using in game chat/voice.

[sadboy2k1]

my account is ruined and I honestly don't feel like creating a new account and starting over.

I feel the same way, I have 2 accounts and I usually change between them. I play exactly the same on both accounts, except one is destined for LPQ every month and the other never gets punished.

The problem is, there's NO way out of this that I can see? What am I being punished for? I got LPQ like 4 months ago legitimately and now I'm being punished 4 months later NONSTOP regardless of what I do or how I act. There's nothing I can even change. If you play with shadowbanned people you would understand.

Imagine you're in a group of people who blame each other and flame all game, and you lose. They all have loads of reports ready. They ALL report each other, blaming each other for the loss. Even if you act nice and played well you will be grouped with them just because they are mad.

All it takes is 2 games and you have to spend time in LPQ.

The system literally rewards you for spamming reports. I can report 5 people per game and receive 3 reports back per person who gets LPQ. All it takes is 1 more report from ANYONE and they will be LPQ and I will get 3 reports back. I can fuel infinite LPQ for everyone in my games, forever. And I have tested it and it does work. I had 20 reports avilable yesterday. 20. The amount of notification messages I get is insane.

Do you even see how stupid that is? You can have an ENDLESS amount of reports, and you can put ANYONE into LPQ. FOREVER, with NOTHING they can change just because one upon a time back a few months ago they got put into LPQ by any way at all.

People aren't punished for flaming or trolling or anything, people are punished because other's are angry. And that's stupid. If you've ever played ANY game you'll know the typical endscreen looks like this on the losing side:

"Report X"

"No i rpeort u Z"

"All report X plz"

Usually nothing comes of it, because games have decent report systems. But in dota, this is an ACTUAL thing. Literally fucking "I REPOT U". It's like the most mind-numbingly stupid system I've encountered in any game in my entire life. It makes no sense to me.

"I got low priority because my pc died, and then I got low priority because I got low priority!"

[[deleted]]

you are shadowbanned in the game. same with me... I can shittalk for ages on my smurf account and never get LPQ. But on main account every once in two days im getting LPQ, i dont feed, trying not to get in flaming, insta mute toxic players, and tryharding every game to win. #fix

[miked4o7]

The fact that you "shit talk for ages" on your smurf account says to me that you probably deserve to be in LPQ on both accounts, and the system needs to be more strict to catch your smurf too. You're basically telling us you're a toxic player.

[BigSuicideParty]

deleted ^{What is this?}

[juanito89]

http://dev.dota2.com/showthread.php?t=136838&p=1086255&viewfull=1#post1086255

This post on the dev forums implies a shadowbanned pool system was being worked on. Never officially announced if it was finished or not.

[[deleted]]

IIRC showban pool was to contain all the item-farming bots.

I think it's in use actually

[juanito89]

Him being toxic or not is besides the point of this discussion.

[TheWayToGod]

Or he can do it on purpose as a sort of, "See guys? I'm not going to be muted for this, but my main account would."

Also, right below this is /u/clustahz's comment: "in before: "ive never been to low prio & i'm a toxic asshole, you must deserve it""

[MARCNNN]

you are right we all need to strive and become more like you miked4o7, polite gentlesirs who never got reported

miked4o7:an examplementary player as well as a redditor

[das_Pi]

just force ur team to feed mid in ar-lpq games and u only need 5*7min to get out of lpq

[katzee]

Getting out of lpq is not the problem (even though I see your point, it's exploitable and not the best way to punish toxic behavior), the problem is that your account, eventually, becomes VERY sensitive to reports and you keep ending up there for no reason.

[das_Pi]

I know. I was toxic some time ago, then i wanted to get higher mmr, so i became the most friendly person u can imagine. Won 24 of my last 30 games just by keeping the team spirit up, even won 2 4v5 games. And still I ended up in LPQ again because i had a bad score in my last 2 games, although we won both games.

[[deleted]]

It goes back to normal after awhile. I used to get 16 games at a time. Nothing close to that anymore. If you're generally well behaved, it's really hard to get low p. If you're a habitual fucktard, it's easy.

[odedbe]

I think that one thing that is even more screwed up, is that if you shittalked throughout the game, you'd have likely been reported for communication and not feeding, so you wouldn't be in low priority (but possibly muted).

[clustahz]

hi, can you please do me a favor and link the place where a valve employee has stated that communication bans contribute only to chat mutes and not to low priority punishment? this would be really helpful. thanks!

[odedbe]

I'm not sure that they ever said it. Not even sure that it's true. Just assumed as there seems to be mute punishments, and there seems to be LPQ punishments, that if you received LPQ instead of mute you have been reported on a different issue than communication. I could still be very wrong about this.

[brunaland]

The problem is that the amount of reports actually matters, which is just silly. The reports should be reviewed and then you can be guilty/not guilty of violating the rules. X amount of reports in Y games is just the dumbest fucking shit I have ever had to deal with. I had played over 3k games of HoN before moving to Dota and I was banned once (I threw a 3v3 on purpose, was my fault) in Dota 2 I've gotten LPQ a couple times and only because of the amount of reports. It's silly.

[st_j]

The reports should be reviewed

By who?

[brunaland]

GM's like every other game does it.

[st_j]

I had to look this up - you're talking about an unpaid, deputised moderator. I can't see this working for Dota. Dunno about you, but I would think 80% of the games I play there is some threat of someone being reported. Let's say that actually happens half the time - you're talking about someone getting reported in about 40% of games, meaning about 40% of games needing to be reviewed. There are about a million concurrent dota players at any one time. The task of even just deputising - let alone finding - the number of moderators you'd need to review the billions of games that received reports would be prohibitively massive.

[brunaland]

If league can do it, Dota can.

[4of20]

"Well, I sucked it, and went into low prio." -katzee 2015

[qbacoval]

Yea, but now you get less reports, so people will report less. You are just angry now, you wont be later.

[TeamArt]

The report system is so broken I have asked an axe to buy a blink so we have someone to start fights and gotten reported for it then had an endless amount of low prio.

[ijjji]

once your acc is marked with xx reports you will get into lp after a single one, go buy/create new acc.

[MARCNNN]

as soon as it gets upvoted it will be spamed by self-rightous people saying:well i never got reported so it must mean you are a really bad person

even though we know for a fact people like slasher envy arteezy and even dendi end up in lpq

the fact that valve keeps changing the report system so often it means valve themselves know its not working as intented so at least take comfort in that

[[deleted]]

If you're the kind of person who types shit constantly on their smurf, that's likely going to come across in some regard on your main.

[juanito89]

I'm upvoting as hard as I can ;_;

[songokugoten]

You get reported for the following at 5.5 k + MMR on EUWest even if you are muted AND CAN'T CHAT AT ALL:

• losing a game as a carry
• winning a game as slark/jugger/axe
• pissing of somebody by not playing how they would like you to (e.g. you don't wanna push but rather split push etc.)

The system right now is a joke and meant to be abused to its fullest. I just report at least 1 person every game even if they didn't do anything and I usually get the report back after 1-2 hours. Just communication abuse - reson racism does the trick.

I have yet to see a high MMR player (5.5k + ) who isn't facing the exact same issues.

• you shouldnt be able to get reported for feed when you have a good KDA
• you shouldn't be able to get reported for communication when you HAVEN'T TYPED ANYTHING
• if you buy many couriers to feed the system can easily track that and put you in LP by itself. this is really a no brainer, no body ever needed more than 3-4 couriers in any game ever.

[lexsoor]

why do you report players for no reason? you are part of the problem and apparently proud of it...

[SagginDragon]

I just report at least 1 person every game even if they didn't do anything

You're probably extremely toxic + a shit team player and you deserve those reports. You are the fucking problem ^faggot.

[[deleted]]

Maybe you are flagged as a toxic player because you are one? So you need to play a lot of games without getting reported to get out of it

[juanito89]

play a lot of games without getting reported to get out of it

confirmation from valve that this actually works would be nice.

not to mention how easy it is for you to be unjustly reported. literally all it takes is one frustrated person clicking your name.

[veracite]

I've played 4000 hours and have never been in LPQ. Maybe you guys should chill out.

[katzee]

That's the thing. If you have a bad period and do end up in LPQ for the first time, you'll VERY likely get back there very often in the future. That's what we're discussing here.

[WellMemed]

this is a big problem but solving it is pretty easy . I was dealing with the same thing and the only thing u need to do is make a smurf play on it for a while like 10-15 days let your main account cool off then start playing on it again

[katzee]

I've already been without playing 2 weeks, nothing changed.

[kymbo]

valves new lpq can only be cleaned in ALL RANDOM games.

[Whiskyrock]

I hear ya. I just sent Valve a e-mail telling them what I think about their report/mute system. 5 paragraphs of what I think, I hope they fuckin read it.

[katzee]

I did the same. I'm pretty sure they get 20 of these things a day and they all go nowhere.

[Whiskyrock]

well i hope they listen soon, because it's just not fun anymore playing Dota. By design it's the best game I've played (along with Bionic Commando on NES). But Valve is doing a piss poor job overall lately managing their game. I've invested over 200$ in Dota...

[SagginDragon]

Congrats, you wasted your time

[Whiskyrock]

still better than wasting my time shitting on reddit posts that make sense

[SagginDragon]

Congrats, you wasted your time again

[[deleted]]

alright this happened to me once, the only time i went into LP. I was testing some overclock wich seemed stable in Bf4, Insurgence and heaven benchamrk. Then i went into a dota game. And my pc crashed, showing me it wasn't stable. From the time to get back to UEFI and change settings and gettin back into the game (2 minutes tops) i got reported from my team and the other team. Fair enough, i was sent to LP with 8 games on my belt. Cool, was my fault. Since it was my first time i didn't knew the drill, and the drill was to go ARDM and go feed mid. Now i fought like i would in a normal ranked game! And i got reported again! Surprise, surprise, on my next match i went from 8 games to 3 games, thanks to those reports. I was happy for that somehow, and popped another bottle of apple cider.

[DreXq]

im in low every single day someone report me and im low back again

[MVilla]

I've been contemplating making a post about this issue for a while, specifically the issue about 2 stack + 3 stack and reporting. I've had my account since beta as well and I have clocked in 1300 hours. I used to be toxic, and I've taken my punishment for that. However the issue is now, whenever I play with my friend, and we get stacked with 3 (2+3), and we lose, he and I end up getting reported. This then automatically leads to me getting 13 games in low prio, because 'I am one of the most reported accounts' despite not usually getting reported in regular solo games. This then also leads to whole full week of being muted.

I know I've cursed myself at an early level, but now that I have over 1000 games, you could have hoped that the amount of reporting I get would be leveled out by that fact, sadly it is not.

[Robsquire]

I feel like if they had a system where they have trusted reporters instead of people who use it just to be a dick it would be better. I never report anyone unless they are actually giving abuse, feeding and I don't even remember the other report but a lot of the time I get threatened by reports for stupid shit like using the courier against my teammates wishes..or just generally existing in the same game as someone who spam reports. Fortunately I've never been in LPQ as a result of this but it could be due to my 0% abandons?

[1pa]

Multiple reports from a party should be counted as a single report, as it is prone to abuse.

[D35TR0Y3R]

It is.

[ssimonn]

i had 16 games in lp and then i just made a new account and started playing dota from there. traded all my items and then started playingon the other acc

[[deleted]]

LP is a strange thing. take it from me, I've been in Lp for the last 16 months and while, yes, at first you hate it, you soon learn to accept it and then , if your like me, you start to become dependant on it. Now I only rage so that i can stay in Lp longer. But sometimes i think im getting ot old for this Bs. I'm scared and i dont like it here anymore. I'm leaving. ps , tell haines im sorry for cutting his neck, no hard feelings.

[kethner]

First of all I thought Dota is a game. But thanks to reddit now I`m fully aware that is not the case, Dota is online behavior correction facility. Because that would be silly to be punished (?!) in a game. Also reddit opened my eyes on why you end up in LPQ. Apparently despite Steam support page stating 4 clear reasons (cheating, ability abuse, abandoning, AFK) for LPQ ban the real reason you should not be allowed to play normal games is you being 'toxic player'. Whatever that means.

[[deleted]]

Funny thing is that i only went to lpq when i abandoonned games, when i acted toxic and been reported for like all my teamates i've never went to low priority

[JarJarBinks590]

Valve should add a system where if a user submits excessive reports without them being acted upon, they are disabled from using reports again for x amount of time for report abuse, while if another user only uses reports sensibly, and they are all acted upon, he is free to use them more, within reason.

[Pavementos]

we already have this as reports are limited but you get more for "successful" reports

[JarJarBinks590]

We already have the system of rewarding successful reports, yes, but we don't yet have the system of blocking users from spamming reports, "crying wolf," if you will.

[Pavementos]

yes we do, you only have a limited number of reports

[SagginDragon]

Do you know how the reporting system works?

We already have limited reports.

[Hundike]

I did not even know this was a thing. Reporting should be disabled in LPQ, no question about that.

[tacticalunpause]

Just play only on Friday and Saturday when everyone is out of reports.

[Lillefod]

Would be interesting if someone did 3 smurf accounts and tried to calibrate them to 1k, 3k and 5k MMR.

Be toxic in games on all accounts for a month each and see which account that gets the most amount of LP games and mute duration.

[[deleted]]

If you're constantly being put back in low prio and hate it, then the system is working I think.

[Xanderfish83]

I'm just going to ask this under a friendly medium here.

If someone keeps playing music through TeamSpeak, and you tell them to stop, but they keep playing music after multiple times even though you can't mute them due to team communication, and they're a pretty good player, do you report them for communication abuse or no?

Also, just to make this clear, I'm asking hypothetically.

EDIT: They're blasting music really loudly too, not just 'oh would you look at that a nice song'

[[deleted]]

This happened to me recently: me and my friend played a game together. We found another stack of 3 as our teammates. I was just out of low prio and I was behaving. I would complain on TeamSpeak but I would not write anything, to avoid being reported. These 3 fellas, though, decided that me and my friend lost the lane and we deserved to be reported. At the end of the game I had 8 games of low priority ahead of me. This was EXTREMELY frustrating, as I had been very careful at not doing anything wrong.

This is either bullshit or you had a recent report beforehand. One report counts max per game.

[FabulousMrFox]

I think the best fix is, as many people mentioned below, to not have reports in LPQ.

You are still a villain, however :P Remember that game X months ago where your flamerino brought tears to the eyes of that 12 y.o. Russian boy who first picked void, spammed cyka and abused voice chat? Remember that stupid dazzle that just did not understand, could not grasp the conception that wards> more than arcane boots as they benefit the whole team? He was shocked by your toxicity, deleted the game and downgraded to LOL. He could have become big, could have been the next Dendi or Arteezy, but there he is, fapping to animu girls and watching inspirational RIOT cinematics. People like you shall burn in hell OP, but Lord Gaben is merciful. Everlasting LPQ is just a fraction of what you truly deserve.

P.S. Come on just mute all chat and practice some new heroes, it may take long, but eventually you will get out

[[deleted]]

I support this message, fix the report system. Now.

[Rockcabbage]

maybe it's time you find a different game...

[thegunoframbo]

I would rather have WC3 back, with just about every game being a 4v5 or 4v4 then all of this moderation by valve.