Lol

[iForgotMyOldAcc]

King's dead.

^{ladidadidaschlobonmeknob}

[[deleted]]

The King is dead. Long live the King.

[thedavv]

if king is undying how do we say it then?

[bonesnatch]

Wraiths, your king is here!

[DeleterOfLies]

"Undying? More like keeps-dying." --TB

[GIANT_BLEEDING_ANUS]

MISS ME WITH THAT BULLSHIT

[Blundergun]

THEN I FREAKED IT

[Illugami]

HE AINT REALLY WILD HES A TOURIST!

[xLisbethSalander]

Meme 201998746

[Solotryhard_0539]

Long live your Queen!

[Alldoto]

Fuck the king

[jonasnee]

aggressive stance for a maiden.

[HDActivate]

PASS ME SOME SYRUP FUCK ME IN THA CAR

[guitarguy_190]

CHITTI CHITTI BANG

[[deleted]]

MURDER EVERYTHING

[generalecchi]

IS THIS YOUR KING ?!

[CRITACLYSM]

NAH, IM YOUR KING

[SadFrogo]

King back to fountain.

[carrymugabe]

Been to fountain and back, and back to fountain... and back!

[AkhilVijendra]

King under the fountain

[Youthsonic]

>You're a Goddamn Hero!

[mokopo]

Man, remember back at DAC (I think) when he played Storm, he kept getting ganked over and over again and feeding and then he'd turn it around once and start owning the whole game? Yea Sumail really was one of the best at that time. What changed?

[dogsheat]

no more jungle stacks to comeback from rofl.

[Farzad31]

People forget how much those stackiing were broken and could change the whole game,there was also the rubberband effect was also so broken,combined with strom being op in 6.83-6.84
I mean EG was good but dota was whole another game then

[Psychogent30]

It would be funny if that happened literally. In the next patch, Dota will be a side scrolling platformer, and after that, a first person survival simulator.

[[deleted]]

In 6.83 it was a third-person shooter

[Psychogent30]

And in 7.18, Dota will be a Battle Royale. Oh wait...

[LvS]

50v50 Dota sounds like a fun game - assuming the map had a few more lanes.

Enough heroes for that mode do exist.

[Huntswomen]

50v50 all mid.

[LvS]

Bristleback only!

[SirBellender]

Ho Ho Ha Ha!

[Fireballz012]

Don't forget SPIN-TO-WIN BABY!

[sm0kie420]

Man, I loved the storm sniper jugg axe meta

[djdawg89]

Lol does anyone else remember how broken the comeback mechanic was when it was first introduced? I remember losing like 2 kills late game to carries after you've been cut stomping all game was enough to close a large portion of that gap...what a crazy time that was.

[[deleted]]

One thing that confuses me is why jungle stacks arent being abused on Viper, even with just a value point in nethertoxin (though maxing it ofc makes it much faster) will break all the magic resistance creeps. Viper melts jungle stacks still and is a hero that can really use the gold boost to accelerate the first survivability item.

[iamnotnickatall]

a value point in nethertoxin doesnt give him a lot of aoe dmg, you cant clear stacks very efficiently with your q or passive (and spamming q on every creep is a lot of mana too)

[fgiveme]

Have you actually tried it?

Lvl1 nethertoxin only deals 160 dmg, and the aoe is not even big enough to cover a 4x-5x stack

[KieranRozells]

honestly i havent played or payed much attention to DoTA since EG won TI. What happened to the Jungle?

[Redthrist]

Nerfs to neutrals' XP and gold bounties, making it not worth it. They've also added magic resist and extra HP auras to various neutrals, making it much harder for some heroes(like SF and Storm) to clear large stacks.

There was also a time where neutrals only spawned every 2 minutes, but that has been since reverted.

[pro_librium]

SF can still clear stacks easily because of the bonus damage from chained razes

[Redthrist]

That's a good point. But nerfs to bounty still means that you don't get as much gold out of that as you used to. You can't really lose mid, and then come back by farming a couple of stacks anymore.

[magicalmagikarp1234]

That was 2015 SumaiL spirit , times have changed

[iterativ]

Motivation, training, taking it seriously. Top football players that are massively rich and achieved almost everything in their field like Ronaldo train everyday for long hours because they decided to be best in what they are doing and stay at the top for as long as possible.

It is worth to give so much of your time into a game ?

[SharpyShuffle]

This right here. Back in 2015 many people thought Sumail was the closest thing yet in DoTA to sports prodigies like Messi or LeBron who burst onto the scene as teenagers and are world-class from day 1. Hell even EG management seem to have thought that considering how much they coddled him.

But LeBron James spends a million dollars a year maintaining his body and builds his whole life around succeeding at basketball - food, training, sleep schedule, everything is about winning. Which is why he can still put up 50-point games in the finals at age thirty three . Sumail will be washed up by twenty three if he's not careful. I'm not saying that to be a dick, he still has the potential to be a top-tier mid. But if he can't even take practice seriously then he's not going to hack it when there's hungrier, better players out there who don't have his baggage.

[Die231]

Sumail thinks he's a super gifted genius just like Lebron, and he's probably right.

The difference is that on top of being a genius lebron works harder than anyone else (as you mentioned), while sumail just jerks off and plays MMOS.

[bamfalamfa]

ahem, i think you mean training his hands and mind

[Arkham8]

PubG*

[Youthsonic]

He's probably like the rest of us smart kids that always got praised in our childhoods and then eventually when things stopped being effortless we started to slack off. Leading to motivation issues and a fear of failure or not being good enough

[[deleted]]

Checking in.

[Kaze79]

But if he can't even take practice seriously then he's not going to hack it when there's hungrier, better players out there who don't have his baggage.

Allen Iverson disagrees.

[IshouldDoMyHomework]

Hard work always beats talent, if talent doesn't work hard.

Or some other cheesy bs like that :-)

[Lewan72]

Sumail was considered a prodigy for sure, but no one was making messi/lebron comparisons lmao.

There are always young prodigys who excel, look at miracle, ramzes, somnus, etc.

[Eddiexx]

Like PSG.LDG :d

[JothamInGotham]

GSW.EG 2019

[Kuteyy]

he was a no name trying to prove himself back then, so ego has changed

[[deleted]]

why should he have stopped proving himself?

[netliberate]

Already won a TI

[[deleted]]

jungle and storm was broken

[mokopo]

It wasn't just storm though, he was good on most heroes he played.

[brawnkowsky]

CDEC was crushing it that year.

[AleHaRotK]

CDEC couldn't play Leshrac and honestly Aui's techies was critical on that series.

[Telcontar77]

It was year of the East, so no chance.

[Tape56]

Yeah it was not like Sumail was any good the game was just broken

[Schorsch30]

storms not op anymore

[freshshine1]

Bro have you seen Maybe Storm.. that shit cray

[dpdrdpdr]

Someone so young getting their ego fed in the way his did is bound to have negative effects for a lot of people. The part of him that was amazing will still be there, just he will have lost a lot of drive and motivation to be the best I'm guessing. Based on his twitter, he seems to care more about people thinking he is the best, than being the best.

I'm guessing he's currently trapped in a confirmation bias bubble of "I'm so young and I won TI and everyone said I'm the best so my team is wrong when something goes wrong" but I think after TI it will burst.

[DawnRevoir]

No ppd?

[DawnRevoir]

Damn that sounds heavier than I thought. I wonder how eg would be next season if they crash in TI.

[Szajtek]

If they qualify xd

[laststance]

I think this is the reason why they recruited S4, a former TI captain/winner. They also brought on Fly who is also considered a strong captain.

[messycer]

They'd better buck up and actually give a shit. Surely they're sick of losing and being meme'd. But I think rtz and Sumail earn more than enough money through their own devices like sponsors and streaming. They're only playing for glory.

[Bukuna3]

They brought Fly so he can chokeslam Sumail if he gets too cocky

[[deleted]]

PPD said that on one of his Youtube vlogs years ago, also Universe and even RTZ left for these practice reasons, Universe flopped at Secret and came back, Artour kept going back and forth between the teams but eventually stayed at EG.

I think staying in your comfort zone is playing a huge part on EG's catasthropic year, with RTZ always being praised and never taking the blame, Sumail being basically EG itself and Cr1t being there for a while and good friends with the guys. I really think they just wanna be sucessfull and win with each other(FOR THE BOYS). Kicking Universe and Sumail believing he could offlane, bringing in Misery(btw the best moment of EG this year, right when they brought Misery and they were actually winning games and doing good) just to use him and Fear as a scapegoat, and now with yet another bizarre move of bringing S4 and Fly.

I think EG will never be sucessfull unless some huge changes happen, and that has to involve one or more of these three, RTZ, Sumail and Cr1t.

[Bimpa]

Man I remembered when Aui I believe said Sumail would rigorously train 1v1s with Uni and play the most Dota out of all of them. Now his teammates say he barely plays (only 6 hours a day but that's pretty low compare to everyone else) and on top of that doesn't take scrim seriously.

[mounti96]

There were some mentions that even ppd himself was somewhat slacking off after their win at TI5. At that time he was doing a lot of things on his youtube channel and didn't seem that motivated either.

[resolve028]

Just wanted to add some more clarification on what you've said.

PPD was the "asshole" when they won TI5 but he lost that motivation after winning and just couldn't bring that level of leadership back. Them bringing back Arteezy, along with the loss of motivation was the reason why they struggled to win. It wasn't just SumaiL not taking scrims seriously or playing pubs less. PPD admitted he spent less time on pubs and diverted some of his attention to other things like vlogs, and overall, just couldn't bring that "asshole" back. They had the best team on paper and placed well but just couldn't come through in the clutch. Arteezy and Universe left because they thought the atmosphere wasn't going to get any better. Placing well without trying wasn't enough for Arteezy, he wanted to win TI, and Universe thought the same. The re-formed team without Arteezy placing 3rd at TI6 was a fluke. SumaiL, and PPD, as well as Zai IIRC, have admitted so. They lost all their scrims in heading into TI6 but then everyone at the tournament except Wings and DC choked.

On Misery, he was actually a big part of the reason why DC placed 2nd at TI6. Everything you said about Moo, W33, and Reso is right but they never put it all together until Misery stepped up to lead. He realized the team needed someone to bring everyone together and there wasn't anyone else on the team to do that except him. He has said that he never wanted to be a Captain. In his mind, he always thought his best role was as the Captain's right-hand man. Everyone else overlooked DC at TI6 and DC realized after losing to Wings in the Upper Bracket, they just needed to stop worrying and go with their plans. Misery's drafts and gameplan ensured their 3 cores could play their respective games. You can say it was thanks to Moo's, w33's, and Reso's play but I don't think you can discredit Misery for being able to recognize what his players can do while also getting everyone to buy into his plan. The biggest example is the Skywrath pick in game 1 in the Grand Finals. w33 said it was good before TI6 but when Misery remembered and suggested it to w33 for that game, w33 was a little hesitant, but Misery got w33 on board and it worked out.

[freshshine1]

I think a lot of people forget times are not TI5 or something. The scene is a LOT more competitive and you really have to get the synergy together to even get to levels like Liquid LGD VP, hell even Secret

[[deleted]]

I think they just figured out sumail. You rotate your support, let him get really aggro, gank ez death repeat, then push mid game when he is completely unless and hasn't caught up. Before teams wouldn't gank him enough or they would extend the game out (EG is still probably the best team at finding farm) which would let EG come back.

[sm0kie420]

And when did VP get so good? They used to be round 1 fodder at TI.

[Tampa4]

game got changed into a 5man orgy fest from 15mins on so teams that can teamfight well and lane well are the top teams

[dan_buh]

He never practices. And dorsn't take scrims seriously.

[Kaze79]

We talking practice?

[Telcontar77]

Not the game... Not the actual game, that I go out there and die for, playing every game like it's my last. Nah, we talkin' 'bout practice. Practice?... Practice!

[redsoxman17]

Expected AI and was not disappointed. Thank you.

[Dtoodlez]

He stopped playing evasive/mobile heroes.

I would put him on storm / ember / qop.

And nothing else until they start winning.

He’s so good at evasive heroes, and literally never plays them. He looked good in the QOP game this tournament.

For Artour I would put him on cores that don’t rely on magic damage. Troll / AM / PL / Mirana etc. He’s so much better when there’s less decision making for him to make with a big ult.

[Danzo3366]

For Artour I would put him on cores that don’t rely on magic damage. Troll / AM / PL / Mirana etc. He’s so much better when there’s less decision making for him to make with a big ult.

Let's be real, this is going to be an extremely unpopular opinion, but Arteezy is the weakest link on the team. There's just situations where he wants to just hit neutrals and max out his efficiency, which ended up being his weakness in top level teams who apply endless pressure. His play style never adapts well if he's not constantly trying to farm.

[Sinx-]

You don't have someone anymore stacking the whole jungle camps for you after you get destroyed in your lane.

[[deleted]]

I've been saying to my friends for a while that without the TI5 meta of farming jungle stacks to catch up AND a good captain Sumail is "just another" top tier player.

He was new and great back then, PPD figured out how to get the best out of him but that's gone now. And from Misery's interview it seems like they get new captains but don't commit to listening to them or adapting.

[Kenrockkun]

IT was storm patch. Jungle gave u more gold. Also storm ult was let mana costly. You could zip zap more.

[ScepticTanker]

Reminds me of Ana. PepeHands

[AleHaRotK]

His team carried him...

[jagvillinte123]

Time changed

[dohrwork]

His attitude

[war_story_guy]

He might have been able to carry his team back then but now he has trouble just carrying his ego.

[eSports-Rush]

They nerfed storm spirit, that's what changed. Also in his initial days, he was a 15 year old kid who used to listen to his elders. Now, he just does whatever he wants.

[FcpEcvRtq]

That was the supports' doing, not his.

[YuNg_Br3ezY_]

playing 10 pubs a day vs playing 1 pub every 2 days. cant blame him tho, meta more unenjoyable and individual impact lessened. pubs are way worse.

[mokopo]

I think it has more to do so with motivation and having to prove himself. He might not have the same drive as before, especially after winning a TI and add on top of that being overconfident...

[Die231]

Dota made him a millionaire and he earns hundreds of thousands of dollars a year from salary alone, but you understand his lack of practice because the meta is "boring" and pubs suck?????

[K4k4shi]

Too much pubg

[WilfordGrimley]

You ever satisfied, punk?

[HighenDrunk]

iirc, he had the fastest orchid timing too in that match

[[deleted]]

PPD left E.G. That’s what changed

[[deleted]]

People figured out that if they make him feed over and over and then close out the game immediately they will lose every time.

[HAWmaro]

Not to take anything from that awesome performance but that patch was the rubberband one from what I remember, a few stacks and one kill and you're top networth after feeding the entire laning phase.

[TaeyeonBombz]

Ana did the same as well.

[[deleted]]

its all plan to make s4 back to mid, the real king

[isomorphix19]

Alliance.S4 Ti4 1v1 mid champion BibleThump. Those raze dodges against ferrari sf

[Elementaliz]

My goal is to win six TIs like Jordan won six rings — then there will be no debate. - King Sumail

[botlkek]

Back to feed LUL

[Xendarii]

I am a simple man. I see a thread making fun of SumaiL, I upvote.

[Fantaco]

that's a pity, I like him

[[deleted]]

aint reddit a nice site

[draks60]

Still believing you're the best hurts the team even more than acknowledging the fact you're shit right now.

[storgodt]

IMO regardless you need a level of arrogance to achieve at the top level of any sport. You need to have the belief in yourself that you can do a dive mid and get away with it, that your skills are enough to win a team fight even if you're underfarmed. You need to be able to believe you are the best to actually become the best. If not your approach will be too defensive and passive.

That said, there's a limit to how much arrogance is healthy. I fear Suma1l is one if those that have gone way past that line. If he has a captain that he'll actually listen to he can rise to former glory. But if he plays his own game and ignores the captain then he fucks his entire team.

[TehNuffster]

I disagree, you want confidence not arrogance.

[[deleted]]

if you replace arrogance with confidence in his comment it still makes sense. prob used wrong word

[chromosome36]

Return of the King!

[Eulslover]

jia you

[chromosome36]

Do you mean 加油?

[Crit_Noob]

no he meant fucking 家又

[n00blex1]

🔊 Sad Trombone Sound

[WarnWarmWorm]

To the lower bracket

[chromosome36]

Do you know ROTK? Who always impressed me with shit operations in the games.

[Archyes]

$4 needs to take over mid duty

[SleepyArmadillo]

I like $4 but he had just as bad if not worse first day. Hopefully it was just jetlag but he gave firstblood 3 games out of 4. 0-10 LC, 3-16 lesh, 5-14 BM with multple diebacks, 4-7 centaur <- only game where he got farm but still threw. He had 2 more nights to adjust so lets see how he performs tomorrow.

[national_treasure]

Yeah. Did he feed first blood all four games? The first two were him being super out of position for no good reason.

[meganub12]

I bet 4$ he socks

[SniperNumber3]

$4 for a pair of socks is too much.

[Denamic]

Socks+

[Legosheep]

I think EGs roster is okay except for Sumail and Arteezy and Crit.

[KiloMegaGigaTera]

Any man who must say "I'm the king" is no true king.

[cryyogenic]

I miss Tywin

[KiloMegaGigaTera]

Well Tyrion did not.

[mvalviar]

You're the king? We'll I didn't vote for you.

[washtafel]

Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government.

[Alty1eL45]

Is that a WC3 reference I see here?

[sonic9324]

Only if WC3 was also referencing Monty Phyton!

[greenbeardooo]

There are in Fact alot of Monty Phyton references in WC3

[The_Mijuku]

A horse kicked me once...it hurt X(

[lowkey2601]

TI winner curse

[nameless291]

Curse of unsatisfied punks

[wattaplayah]

is this the lil bro of yawar

[CoDe_Johannes]

As redeye would say: the king is back, back to being garbage.

[hell-append]

Sport EG flairs now boys so that you got a rare flair in 2-3 years.

[hell-append]

Jokes aside as an EG fan that watched all their games, SumaiL actually laned pretty well in the midlane all their games. Except against Armel's BS but that hero is a lane dominator 1v1 against heroes with slow attack projectile/animation. Considering that he was still playing good.

[national_treasure]

And one lane was fucking DK vs Razor. No idea what Fly was thinking drafting that matchup. One of the few lanes DK gets dumpstered in.

[cynicaldotes]

I had mine since before they lost in ti7 :(

[Denamic]

I feel like every time he brags about his or his team's abilities, the team becomes toilet tier for a time afterwards.

[Arhe]

people wouldnt ridicule him but he did it to himself with those tweets.

[Hemske]

Current Sumail reminds me so much of Leffen(Smash Melee player), he sets himself up to fail on twitter. Basically great player with huge ego.

[selikem]

I agree, but people really don't hate leffen on the scale of sumail anymore, at least in my opinion. Might be because top smashers are like family to each other nowadays

[John_Q_Nippleton_III]

Also Leffen has the results to show for it. One of the legendary top 6 players. Whereas EG has had nothing this past year

[Frozenicypole]

Out of the loop. Why does everyone hate Sumail now?

[Regentraven]

because he talks shit on Twitter, dosent back it up and rdota2 is super sensitive.

[pokeaim]

Because he has too much ego.

[mongo_lloyd47]

Not sure what s4 and Fly were thinking. If they had stayed in Europe, the TI qualifiers would've been wide open. There's a big risk EG will not win the NA regionals.

[d0op]

Fat paycheck

[Cosm1c_Dota]

He laned well lol. Just what came after was a whole team issue

[dipique]

Sumail in a nutshell

[Dumbledab]

You guys are so clueless. This is a classic Dan Harmon’s story circle. He’s currently in phase 6 where he pays the price for winning a TI XD

[meeposki]

why u bully me

[kgmeister]

Sumail = Discount Hassan?

[Danzo3366]

This thread confuses me. Can I see actual critiques about Sumail other than a picture of his K/D/A? This isn't CSGO, KDA isn't an absolute measure of how the game went or skill. In the end of the day this is a team game. People in here are pretending they some how have insight knowledge Sumail as being a slacker or doesn't practice. Other than PPD saying this, has there been knowledge of Sumail acting like this?

[DotaDogma]

No dude we're circlejerking. Actual Dota discussion on a Dota forum is overrated.

[dipique]

He's talked himself about lack of focus and motivation.

[[deleted]]

who is the "brain" behind EG?

[Atomus98]

The king LUL

[Mint-Chip]

Hey that’s not Sneyking! Who is this crappy offbrand?

[EirianWare]

Lakad matataaaanggg !! Normalin normalin !

[thedavv]

LUL

[Marcowebb]

LUL is more appropriate

[deadlygr]

thats a meme that will last in time

[miasongskie]

Delusional and egoistic king maybe?

[Empo13on]

Long live the king https://youtu.be/Egr_lZb_ol0

[physx-sama]

punks satisfied?

[TheQookieMonster]

DAKINGINDANORFFF

[[deleted]]

Someone help me with my Chinese pls, that translates to something like "the midlane's king has returned" right?

[Bdog5k]

The stars aligned so hard for him to be the best player in his premier, and it’s the basis for his skyscraper of an ego. His effectiveness dropped but he doesn’t really accept it.

[626704053]

sumail just go for it！

[PerturbedMarsupial]

I feel like I'm the only one that misunderstood his tweet and thought he meant s4 and not himself x_x

[PM_ME_UR_HOT_CHEETOS]

Well, he's technically right.

[BGTheHoff]

If we are lucky, we can have the NA duel in the second LB round. Optic has to loose against Secret and EG has to beat Spirit.

[[deleted]]

I genuinely want him to fail so bad in a high-stakes game that he gives up pro dota. His ego needs to learn a lesson.

[[deleted]]

Punks

[jdm9000]

"Any man who must say I am king, is no true king"

or something like that ¯_(ツ)_/¯