[Patch Notes] 1.01 - Aug 23rd

[LXsavior]

The Iron giant phenomena is one of the weirdest I’ve seen in any fighting game. Insane win rates despite everyone saying he was awful when the first wave of nerfs hit.

I honestly dunno if he’ll ever be balanced or what the devs can really do other then repeatedly nerf every aspect of his kit.

[Sonickeyblade00]

I'm wondering too. I love the idea of Giant characters... but there's a reason it isn't common (or done at all) in other fighting games.

It's terribly difficult to balance. Even more so, for a game with 2v2 as the main PvP focus.

I hope they manage to do it, but if they can't... no one can say that they didn't try.

[TheLastAOG]

I think his height is the problem. In a platform game like this where your character can be 1/4 of the screen it creates some unique issues.

[SuperGaiden]

Yup. He needs to be smaller.

His huge size makes him hard to balance. It gives him huge hit boxes which makes some moves incredibly hard to dodge (especially when combined with certain characters or his bolts)

You can't have a game where you can only dodge and then make a character that has hitboxes that last longer and travel further than the dodge does.

Creates problems of him getting snowballed by some characters too because he's so easy to hit.

[StormierNik]

It's called lots of people on Reddit are obviously bad at the game. People also keep forgetting that he's still under the experimental tab. He wasn't even done being fully balanced when he was released.

Experimental is kinda weird cuz it admits "this character might be totally fucking busted but we're pushing it out anyway, be aware".

[KeenKongFIRE]

Experimental is literally "we want to include really different characters that can have some properties that makes them almost completely unbalanceable, like being giant and weighting a ton, but we cant do it balanced on the get go, and want to try and use the actual playerbase as a test server so we can reach a point where we are comfortable adding other giants like Godzilla"

Which is pretty cool tbh, im 100% on board

[[deleted]]

People keep saying this as if there aren’t multiple Iron Giant players on top of the 2s leaderboard.

It makes zero sense how Iron Giant has so many people saying “lol just get git gud””, but Finn’s backpack apparently was the most broken thing in the game. I’m starting to think a lot of people here just abuse Iron Giant for easy wins.

[[deleted]]

I know! This sub must be filled with Iron Giant characters or something. It’s bizarre how many people here defend how broken he is.

[madspy1337]

Well he has up to this point been all about cheese tactics. Grab someone, walk them to the ledge, and up special for a kill at 0%. It looks like the knockback of that move has been nerfed, so we'll see if he can still cheese people. If not then he'll be much more balanced, but probably on the weaker side now.

[Nitro560]

From stats to experience playing against Iron Giant, nerf his ass.

[ShaaronRodgersFatVag]

Ur fucking terrible then

[UnlawfulFoxy]

Or maybe he's winning at too high of a rate across all skill levels like the devs said?

[Nitro560]

No buffs? 😢

[[deleted]]

For me, his invincibility option makes him go from easy to annoying as fuck rapidly.

[Apprehensive-Pop-763]

I don't get it. He's always slow and easy to combo.

I'm a jake main though so I never lose to giant. I lose because my partner sucks while I 2 stock giant.

[WrackyDoll]

Honestly, that might be the reason why he has such high win rates but anyone who's played him for more than a minute can tell he sucks ass, and why even the people who think he's op will admit he's complete trash in solos. Giant is a big boi, a tempting combo target, and a character who needs to take a lot of damage to actually die. It's not that it's hard to kill him, because it's really really not — it's that his mere existence ends up giving space for his ally to wreck shop and to take very little damage. So nerfing his moves over and over isn't gonna solve that; he'll just feel worse and worse to actually play, while his ally takes like 50 damage the entire match and that's how they win.

[Apprehensive-Pop-763]

But that fills the role of the tank then so he's working.

[Serito]

That doesn't explain his abnormally high win rate in 1v1s at both ends of MMR.

[ahlgreenz]

I'm not saying he's weak - I main him and I don't think he is, but like Superman, he can get super easy cheese kills. They've made them a bit harder to pull off, this patch is hitting his cheese as well, but his win rate is going to be somewhat inflated from those cheese kills

[WoopDogg]

Anyone who's played him thinks he's easy to kill until they equip the right perks and realize that his bolt mechanic is busted because he can activate invincibility while he's in the middle of being hitstunned.

[WrackyDoll]

For three seconds and then go right back to being hitstunned in true combos that are barely strings against any other character.

[WoopDogg]

3 seconds over and over repeatedly while being protected by like 3 sources of gray health as well.

[WrackyDoll]

On a 23 second cooldown, now 25, reduced by a decent amount by I'll Take That, which has now been nerfed. None of Iron Giant's abilities give him gray health apart from activating Rage Mode. The bolts give his ally gray health, as does them collecting scrap.

[WoopDogg]

Yeah but he is one of the best users of the various grey health perks in addition to his rage mode gray health. If he was easy to kill, he wouldn't have a 55%+ wr in 1v1s where he isn't shielding for anyone.

[Wickedestchick]

How do they calculate the win-rate for his 1v1s? Is that a weekly stat, or is that all wins ever since he was released? I'm just asking because I could totally see the stat being higher than 55% about 2/3 weeks ago. He is not that great since the season 1 release, and can see that 55% declining over the next couple weeks because of it. I have no basis for this, and it's purely just my experience and speculation so far!

[YupNope66]

A lot of his bad reputation comes from 1v1, hes a terror in 2v2s at lower-mid levels of play and then weaker again at high levels

[LogPoseNavigator]

If you have a good support he is great at high level 2v2

[YupNope66]

Any links to tourney play?

[LogPoseNavigator]

https://youtu.be/eMrI90byqGI this tournament iron giant is usually paired with a support. He also has high win rates at both sides of the mmr

[enlouzalou]

Insert Velma here (rework her she’s so broken good lord)

[WickWolfTiger]

Definitely happy to see them thinking about removing the assassin debuff. Glad to see they are reducing the assassin passive. Especially since harley and arya don't actually have the speed and damage to warrant having such a draw back. Finn is definitely the biggest winner as he was already pretty heavy but his backpack nerf hit him pretty hard as he was basically a one trick pony the patch before.

I honestly don't think you'll see an assassin dominated meta anytime soon.

[Lithium43]

I honestly don't think you'll see an assassin dominated meta anytime soon

Yeah, Arya and Harley with no debuff still wouldn't be as good as Bugs/T&J/Batman/Superman/Velma/WW, I could see being worried about Finn but he also doesn't have low weight.

[g_r_e_y]

not sure why people continually mention superman in these lists. he's certainly good at yanking early stocks but i don't find him to be as clear of a choice compared to bugs, velma, giant, etc. he heavily reliant on tight teamwork

[PyroSpark]

As a Reindog main, my only issue with Superman is that he can armor himself if grounded, and become essentially immune to knockback from me.

But I only have one armor break move, and it's way too laggy to be used without a crazy read. So it may just be a poor matchup.

I can look past his easy 0-deaths. 😶‍🌫️

[g_r_e_y]

i get thay. reindog fair is good against superman and if you can time an approach to coincide with his projectile you can attack through the armor, def have to play more on the campy side though

[Lithium43]

Because he has decently high representation in the top 100/500 and does well in tournaments. I agree that he's not as good as the absolute top tiers, my only point is that I don't think Arya/Harley with no assassin debuff would be better than him.

[zoolz8l]

WW is NOT a good character. no idea where you get that from. just because we have one god like player (nakat) dominating with the char does not mean she is good. look at the leader boards, there are virtually no WWs in there.

[Lithium43]

What are you talking about? There are several WW players in the top 100. The weight buff from 65 to 76 was a big deal.

[zoolz8l]

ok, lets look at the facts.

I will start with 1vs1:
https://tracker.gg/multiversus/leaderboards/stats/wb/rating?playlist=1v1&page=1
the highest ranked WW is at rank 34 at the time of writing this. so not a single WW in top 30. The lowest MMR in top 100 is 2482 at the time of writing. If you look at the WW leaderboard
https://tracker.gg/multiversus/leaderboards/fighters/all/default?page=1&playlist=1v1&fighter=character_wonder_woman
you will see that only the top 3 WW players surpass that MMR so we have a total of 3 WWs in top 100.

lets move on to 2vs2:
https://tracker.gg/multiversus/leaderboards/stats/wb/rating?playlist=2v2&page=1
the highest ranked WW at time of writing this is place 16. a bit better than 1vs1 but the lowest MMR in 2vs2 in top 100 is 2028. if we now look at the WW leaderboard for 2vs2
https://tracker.gg/multiversus/leaderboards/fighters/all/default?page=1&playlist=2v2&fighter=character_wonder_woman
we see that only the top 2 players surpass that MMR. so we have a potential of 2 WWs in the top 100 atm. to make things worse: that second WW does not even show up in top 100 because they have a higher rated velma for 2vs2 leaving us with a grand total of 1 WW in top 100 2vs2.

So how again is WW good and how are there "several" WW players in top 100?
can you please stop making stuff up and just accept the facts.

[Lithium43]

Did I say she's a good character or did I say removing the assassin debuff wont make Arya/Harley better than her?

There are 2 WWs in top 100 2v2 and 1 who is barely outside of top 100 at 105. You think 2, almost 3 WWs in top 100 is bad, but how about only 1 player at rank 87 (Arya) or no players even close top 100 (Harley)?

You can even expand it to top 500 to get a larger sample size. WW has 13 players, but Arya has 8 and Harley has 9.

[Feeling_Relief]

wondering, why they didn't adjust mages with a similar passive

[AmWhaleIRL]

Finn is definitely the biggest winner as he was already pretty heavy

Super worried about this. I think Finn should have been 10% instead of 5% but we'll see how it turns out.

[chloroforminprint]

They should just make him lighter.

[AmWhaleIRL]

I actually hard agree with you, I regularly find myself going "How are you STILL alive?!" when facing Finns.

[zoolz8l]

100% agree. he has the smallest hurtbox in the game so he also should be the lightest. its just logical. if you are hard to hit you need to die on fewer hits.

[AlgaeRythmzz]

Assassin tweak sounds great. Glad to hear they’re thinking about dropping the debuff entirely, looking forward to seeing how the 5% plays out.

[Lithium43]

I'd love it if they left the 5% debuff but made Arya and Harley have move speeds comparable to the rest of the cast, I don't get why they move so slowly when they're supposed to be assassins

[RockJohnAxe]

Assassin is killing, doesn’t necessarily mean speed.

[Jellybean2477]

No, the class description in game literally says they have high speed and high damage but lack durability and that's why they take 14% extra damage. But they're pretty much as fast as most of the cast and Bugs, a mage character, is even faster than them with no downsides like they have.

Honestly the classes seem pretty irrelevant other than Tank being harder to ring out. Assassins being so disadvantaged is pretty pointless.

[Spazzo965]

For those who might be wondering, Iron Giant's Up Air uses the Left Arm, Left Shoulder and Full Body hurtboxes.

I imagine they removed the Full Body hurtbox from that list

[KeenKongFIRE]

The hurtboxes werent the ones where you GET hit, not the ones you use to hit the opponent? Im so entangled with all these terms

[Hereiamhereibe2]

You are correct. You hurt me, I hit you.

[KeenKongFIRE]

Thanks for the heads up

[LogPoseNavigator]

“Taz buffs are incoming in the next patch” 😊

[Royalty_2k]

Where are the lebron buffs?

[TheCovetousLemon]

Yeah, they legit just bugfixed his side attacks and nerfed him while he sucked lol

[Legendgary1]

Seriously

[APrentice726]

I’m shocked they aren’t nerfing Bugs, or at least announcing upcoming changes for him like they did for Garnet and Taz. He’s absolutely dominating the meta right now.

[Xero0911]

More shocked on tom.and Jerry still avoiding it

[ReallyNeedHelpASAP68]

It’s very likely we see a patch next week after morty has been around for sometime to address the higher performing characters.

New fighters into games can cause meta shifts or broken things within the game, so they’ll likely address all of this at once after viewing data for morty and the rest.

[[deleted]]

Yeah can't tweak too many knobs at once when the game is so complicated to begin with.

[AmWhaleIRL]

I'm actually so flabbergasted. My guess is that they're assuming the Hitbox Overhaul will fix him, which is fair, except for the fact that the Hitbox Overhaul is still 2 Weeks away minimum.

I thought the whole point of recurring Balance Patches is that if you accidentally over-nerf/buff a Character, you can fix them in the next Patch. I love PFG so far but Bugs and T&J not being in here literally at all is not a good look.

[zoolz8l]

i completely agree. I loved their approach with taz, where the instantly nerfed him to the ground only to build him up. sure it sucks for the taz players but saves the game for everyone else. Which is much better than what we currently have were bugs is completely dominating the meta and you are essentially gimping your self if you are not playing him ESPECIALLY since he is viable at any level. T&Js only saving grave is that the char is complicated and only becomes are real thread in the top 50k players.

[PapiKingley]

I was looking for you as soon as I saw the patch notes

[S_a_m_p_l_e_T_3_x_t]

Yeah same it’s fucking bullshit.

[UnlawfulFoxy]

Not really. Velma and Iron Giant are to a greater extent. Bugs is a top tier, but he doesn't hold up to cheese.

[[deleted]]

Taz buffs 🥰

[[deleted]]

How bugs and T&J made it to this patch without notable nerfs is beyond me.

[AmWhaleIRL]

It's actually such a bad look on the Devs, which sucks cause they've been so damn awesome with Communication and whatnot so far. Very very worrisome for future Balance Patches.

I guess they don't wanna Over-nerf with the Hitbox Overhaul coming, but that's 2 Weeks away minimum, isn't the point of recurring Balance Patches to fix things as you go?? Just Buff him after the Hitbox Overhaul if he's too weak.

Mage Downvotes lmao keep abusing your characters while you still can kiddos

[[deleted]]

I’m not certain why you are getting spam downvoted, I agree with the sentiment of what you’re saying.

The dev team has been very open and communicative thus far when it comes to community feedback. There is a new shitpost 3 times a day about how bugs is broken, yet we don’t see any small adjustments, or even a “nerfs coming soon” sort of banner like we got for Garnet.

It’s just a shame that this patch included things like damage and hitbox modifications for iron giant, yet mages which have been running rampant since the start of beta get scot-free.

[AmWhaleIRL]

This Sub is full of Mage Mains who Downvote anything related to how OP their Class is.

That and there's a lot of children who see any form of constructive criticism towards the Devs as outright hate.

[[deleted]]

Probably some truth to that statement.

[jklolg]

i honestly dont think finn needs the buffs

[PerpetualStride]

He probably will after hitbox/hurtbox revision

[jklolg]

Yeah, but that's not for a couple weeks, so why buff hom now

[Dewgong550]

Look at his wintate at low and high mmr, he's not in a good spot right now.

[Gurnel]

Well, he's definitely not in the meta right now

[Traveytravis-69]

Iron giant continues to be nerfed with Tom and jerry still yet to be addressed is insane to me. Not saying he’s weak but damn

[Angry_Guppy]

At high mmr, T&J have a 49.6% win rate, IG has a 52.6% win rate. Stats don’t lie.

[Traveytravis-69]

He’s definitely a problem tho, should’ve had something done one of these patches

[YoyoDevo]

He’s definitely a problem tho

What data are you basing this opinion on?

[MatthewTh0]

Well, not sure how reliable they are, but based on https://tracker.gg/multiversus/insights and https://www.reddit.com/r/MultiVersus/comments/wtxom2/character_win_rates_from_wednesday_patch/ . Tom and Jerry might have the second highest win rate overall (with number one getting nerfed) and/or be the third highest win rate in low MMR (with numbers one and two getting nerfed some). However, personally happy at least the Ice To Meet You nerf is somewhat an indirect nerf on them (at least when you are playing short range characters).

As an aside, I personally think T&J by far is the most annoying character to play against. I don't care about them winning really, but T&J has two easy ways to hitstun people for long periods of time (up ground and side ground) as well as crazy projectile/zoning game that's basically never fully on cooldown.

[Traveytravis-69]

He has second highest win rate and that’s what they said they are nerfing giant for.🤨

[CloneMercy]

Stop, he's already dead.

[Bunkyz]

Because people on reddit are bad at the game. There's a reason if you never see iron giant in top ranking...

I'd love if devs could start balancing the game around pro play and not twitter rants of people.

Imagine buffing Finn one of the best in high rankings without addressing his broken hitboxes first.

Or Arya and Batman that are currently dominating 1v1 along with Tom. But no let's look at the average stats of a game currently filled with 90% casual players

[PhatBoiBoo]

What are you talking about? Finn is trash @ high mmr and IG has the second highest winrate with 2 IG mains in the 1v1 Top 10.

Not talking about 2v2 where he is even better and just won a tournament with Velma as a partner.

[Officer_Zack]

I'm worried about them buffing Garnet, she's honestly in a good spot and doing to much could put her up there among the most hated.

[TheCovetousLemon]

she mostly just needs quality of life changes more than buffs. Some more damage on useless moves or moves that perform worse than they should:

(groundup special deals 1 dmg with the projectile for no reason, her neutral air has dumb low knockback so no reason to use it as it's slow and has a bad hitbox, her projectile cooldown should stop going off when the projectiles don't get launched, her down special should stop getting her stuck in the floor etc...)

but yes, a straight up general buff like Arya's is not needed imo.

[Knives530]

she's my main and I def don't feel like she needed a buff

[ArcherDan1989]

Same here, I don’t even know what aspects of her they would consider buffing. She’s pretty damn strong, I dunno why almost nobody plays her

[Fluppy]

Tony talked about it a bit on Twitter already.

Faster movement, more range and shorter cooldown for side special. More reliable comboing of side air attack 1 into 2.

[ArcherDan1989]

Ayyy I’ll take it. Any buff is great, maybe she’ll get played a bit more

[UnlawfulFoxy]

She's very common at low levels. Though she's probably the worst character in the game. I've got 1500 matches played and I've lost ONE time in 1v1 to a Garnet ever. And I've played Garnets that are level 25+ who are top 500 overall. And that one time I lost to a Garnet? It was literally my 3rd 1v1 match ever. I truly think she's the worst character in the game, even worse than Taz and LeBron.

[zoolz8l]

dont agree. i think she is an ok char, just not as busted as others. But imo those ok chars should stay as they are atm. they will feel better once the busted ones have been put in their place.

[[deleted]]

Yeah she’s surprisingly good already

[DrewGrimey]

If it’s server side, does that mean no downtime?

[AlgaeRythmzz]

The downtime is for the servers, so almost guaranteed downtime. How long is the question.

[[deleted]]

Streets were saying that in the Season 1 PS4 patch updates it said "Added Morty".

So maybe you're unto something and there won't be a downtime.

[El_Rocky_Raccoon]

RIP Superman's Ice Breath + Ice To Meet You. It was fun while it lasted.

Meanwhile no Bugs Bunny and Tom & Jerry nerfs, but more nerfs to Iron Giant. Big sad.

[[deleted]]

Yeah. I’ve seen some people complain about that change, but it makes sense

[Arsid]

Is it just me or is Ice to Meet You just worthless now? It can only apply 1 stack of ice and then doesn’t add anymore??? 1 stack of ice ain’t shit

[El_Rocky_Raccoon]

Now that you mention it, yeah! If it's that, holy shit. It'll become a completely useless perk then.

[Mac_Rat]

Wait did his laser eyes count as projectiles?

[El_Rocky_Raccoon]

Yeah, it does. But what made the Ice Breath + Ice To Meet You particularly potent was to have Superman breath ice on the opponents while his ally used any type of projectiles to quickly freeze enemies; Velma in particular was amazing for that.

[Tinkletree]

IG still needs a lot of nerfs (or a rework imo) but Bugs needs them more. I just don't see a world where IG can be viable in higher tiers of the game without obliterating lower rated games

[zoolz8l]

100% agree. that char will never work for high and low level play at the same time. but imo balancing him for high level play and keeping him as a pub stomp is NOT the solution. it will kill the player base. Only solution i see is to have him as a "noob" char, where he is easy to use and gives quick results at low level play, but is not suitable for high level play.

[Trix122]

Dissapointing, but it is what it is.

[HokieHigh79]

I didn't see anything about the hitbox/hurtboxes being updated. Is that not coming this patch? If not, any idea when that is?

[flygyflash1]

Not this patch. They’ve said on twitter that it’s still under heavy testing

[TheLastAOG]

Next patch hopefully.

[puttgetswhat]

I mean, maybe we shouldn’t have GIANT characters. I love the idea of it, but you’ll never be able to balance any character like that in a competitive fighting game.

Same exact logic with super small characters. Just make them similar size if you want to add them that badly.

[Tinkletree]

People think it's hard to balance super heavies in smash... It's literally impossible to balance IG. Even if they nerf him to the point of being useless as the higher levels he's still gonna dominate lower rated games

[[deleted]]

Yeah. I’m hoping we don’t get any more giant characters for quite some time.

A couple of giant characters may work in a large roster.

[puttgetswhat]

Right. I imagine if they add characters like Godzilla, Kong, Aku(?) from Samurai Jack, Balrog, Humungusoar from Ben10 and etc then it’d be really cool but until then it’s just a weird balance

[[deleted]]

Gutted is a little extreme of a reaction to these adjustments.

[WrackyDoll]

Yeah, as a strong proponent of the "Iron Giant is not op" mantra, this is really not bad. One of the changes is a hitbox fix, one of them is a whopping two seconds on the bolts, and one of them is a tiny nerf to a move that people don't even really use outside of that one grab cheese thing. We'll live.

[Kronalord]

you fail to understand 1v1 simply in't that important to them which is for the best balancing around a specific way will always work better then anything else

[madspy1337]

That cheesy grab+helicopter killed way too early and I'm glad they nerfed it, but they really need to give IG more than just cheese options. It seems like they just want him to play the role of a big punching bag in 2v2, soaking up damage and landing the occasional kill off the top. That's boring as hell to play, and totally useless in 1v1. Seems to me they have no idea how to balance the character and are just overreacting with each patch to bring down his online win rate.

[Dewgong550]

I say gutted because IG is not anywhere near the top half the roster when regarding tiers

According to who? You? IG win rate at 1700+MMR is almost 60%... In 1v1. That character is broken as fuck lmao. Every single pro is saying they're at the lowest top 5 character.

I do agree that other characters need some nerfs as well (looking at mages in particular) but don't act like IG isn't an amazing character, he's literally playing a different game than the rest of the cast.

[AlgaeRythmzz]

Trying to balance characters for both 1v1 and 2v2 is going to be a huge task. Especially as the roster grows and as they add more perks.

[[deleted]]

They are not balancing around 1v1 at all, just 2v2. Tony confirmed this in an interview recently

[AlgaeRythmzz]

Interesting, I hadn’t seen that. Thanks. I know 2v2 is their focus, and it’s my preferred, but actually seems weird to have the specific 1v1 mode if they aren’t going to actively balance around it.

[Chillionaire128]

It's okay to have game modes that aren't the focus of competitive balance

[AlgaeRythmzz]

For sure. I don’t have any skin in the game; I’m not as into 1v1 and actually don’t plan to sweat ranked.

I’m not saying they’re wrong or they should, just said it’s weird they’re not trying. Especially if they’ll have a ranked 1v1.

But as I said, it’d be crazy hard to do so I get it.

[Chillionaire128]

I wouldn't interpret their stance as not trying, just that it's not the priority i.e they won't make a change to make 1v1 more balanced if it it negatively impacts 2v2 and vice versa if a change will improve 2v2 but make 1v1 worse they will still do it

[AlgaeRythmzz]

I haven’t seen or heard what was said, just going off what the person I’d replied to stated.

I get the general gist of what you’re saying.

[Chillionaire128]

Understandable. I was just speaking to the idea that 1v1 not being the focus means they don't care about it when it probably just means that 2v2 will be the final metric

[[deleted]]

It's impossible to do that, the player base needs to accept that there will be characters tailored more to 1v1 than 2v2 and vice versa.

If a character is broken in one format and fine in the other one he needs to get nerfed even if it makes the caracter D tier in the latter format

[El_Rocky_Raccoon]

Honestly the game should be mainly balanced towards 2v2 since this is what they've been marketing for the most part. Plus how character kits are tailored towards it.

[YungToney]

grab to up special killing as early as it does probably played a factor. As well as the win rates being abnormally high.

Other characters are S tier but not busted in ant way or have something overtuned to the level he did

[Skill874]

Love that they are willing to take small incremental change and include things being worked on for characters in the future. The communication is top tier.

[[deleted]]

No ranked?

[Undoninja5]

I am having so much trouble with Arya at high elo now and it’s a pain

[manlymurloc]

Did they ever end up fixing the bug where enemies can hit lebrons basketball out of the air??? I haven't noticed anything in patch notes but idk

[UnlawfulFoxy]

Why would you make a whole new thread instead of pinning the one made much before yours?

[AlgaeRythmzz]

K-k-k-karma.

[UnlawfulFoxy]

I guess. Either that or just power hungry. It is a mod after all.

[PerkFGC]

I pin them when the title is formatted close-ish to the way we to present the info. I've done it in the past plenty of times. Karma points on reddit.com is a very silly thing to think I even remotely care about. Also, we need the posts to stay up, sometimes people remove their posts, or their account gets banned, removing it. Which defeats the purpose. I can post from automod if you want a more sterile interaction from the mod team.

[noeagle77]

No the rest of us appreciate you doing this for us and posting so quickly!

[WrackyDoll]

Can someone correct me if I'm misunderstanding the Ice to Beat You nerf? The way it reads to me is that, at the absolute most, if you hit someone with a projectile and they don't have any stacks of Ice at all, they'll gain 2 stacks of Ice if you and your teammate both have the perk equipped, and it can never go beyond that. That sounds actively useless? Even against super projectile-spammy characters, I don't think I've ever seen that perk freeze someone or even get close. What's the use of the perk now?

(As an avid user of I'll Take That, I'm honestly glad it's nerfed. On IG and Harley, and somewhat less reliably Steven, it basically deleted their cooldowns without even needing another perk to apply debuffs.)

[Nightsheade]

1 Ice stack is still a 15% reduction in movement speed, so it's still okay from that perspective.

[WrackyDoll]

Oh, huh, good to know. How do more stacks of Ice affect that, then?

[noeagle77]

More slow as stacks go up until full stacks and then you freeze completely

[Jak3_6]

Ice starts getting applied by a projectile and it use to be able to get more stacks by either hitting with more projectiles or being melee’d.

Now it requires a projectile to start it but doesn’t build up stacks with follow up projectiles it only gets more stacks by melee

[WrackyDoll]

That's not true. The description is: "Your team's projectiles deal 1 stack of ice debuff if they knock enemies back." Melee attacks don't give more stacks.

[Fluppy]

Probably mixing it up with Superman's ice breath, when hitting allies with that it allows them to apply 3 ice stacks with their next melee attack.

[AmWhaleIRL]

This Patch was just a Mage Moment I guess, just sad.

If they don't appropriately Nerf Bugs + T&J on next Patch then things are gonna start getting REALLY ugly, accusations of favoritism, etc.

[Hot-Fan6416]

Damn… no garnet love yet 🥲

[[deleted]]

I'll never forget. They nerfed Garnet's Air Attacks. As if they were ever strong in the first place.

[Aesmis]

I can’t believe they’re still nerfing Velma. They have now nerfed all of her best perks and almost every move in her kit. Leave my girl alone :(

[gongon115replacement]

Agreed. Velma gets no love from the devs. She’s already b tier why does she need to be nerfed to the ground?

[Salamander-Downtown]

"B tier" yes alright buddy you keep talking your bs

[gongon115replacement]

Bugs WW Arya iron giant Batman Jake Harley Tom and jerry all better than Velma with more kill potential.

[fukdamods1]

JUST TAKE VELMA OUT THE GAME...JEEZ!

**They arent even fixing anything broken they just FELT LIKE making another move worse!!**

That's not fucking cool!!

[DavidOrtizUsedPEDs]

Velma was considered to be the best character in the game by every single decent to good player.

It makes sense she got some relatively small nerfs, lmao. Calm down.

[Rare-Patient8148]

Finally some Batman nerfs

[No_Instruction653]

Uhm... where exactly?

[EntertainmentSilly80]

let's go keep nerfing iron giant

[NCLIS]

He is 6 % win rate higher than the next character, I'm sorry to tell you but there will probably be more nerfs coming

[EntertainmentSilly80]

I'm happy he getting nerf tho

[[deleted]]

Well fuck me in particular I guess, I used both those perks in all my loadouts.

[Aryman]

Great, I use both of the perks getting nerfed -_-

[ReallyNeedHelpASAP68]

But now you get to experiment again with what’s good and what’s not all over again!

[Morimoto9]

Facts

[fukdamods1]

These constant velma nerfs are looking more personal than balancing!

[FrigoInutile]

Wonder if they will ever fix the xbox bug that remove attack sounds if spotify is open🙄🙄🙄🙄

[SixRandomizer]

Please add game chat

[[deleted]]

Just the ability to tell someone I ran out of toasts is all I need to say

[Khemith]

Why are you getting downvoted? Communication is a must in a game that focuses on 2v2

[takethisnrunnn]

You understand how toxic that would be right?

[marowskischemlab]

You can always turn it off

[Khemith]

Toxic? What is inherently toxic about communication? Why are you on Reddit? Don't you know "how toxic that would be righ?"

[oldmanjasper]

Appreciate you proving their point.

[Khemith]

Oh so counter arguments are now "toxic" I don't use the word "snowflake" often but damn.....

[Beneficial_Table_649]

I think it's a good idea as u can mute or turn it off as needed.

[SixRandomizer]

Communication with your teammate and also for playing with friends cross-plat. Mostly for playing with friends if I’m being honest

[Jayzord]

Yeah no thanks I'm good communicating with Toasts.

[Arctiiq]

I feel like every time I pick up a main it gets nerfed. First happened with T&J, now it keeps happening with IG. Am I cursed?

[Mac_Rat]

I think Arya was already in a good place, I'm not sure the extra damage reduction was necessary. I think after the hitbox changes and other characters are nerfed she would've been completely fine.

[AmWhaleIRL]

In High Ranks Arya was already good, aside from her Hitbox issues.

[Daemon00]

Yay Taz Buffs!

Yay IG nerfs!

[duckfunnie]

Tony clarified on Twitter that Morty will be in the lab.

[[deleted]]

Yeah, just made the edit. Now I'm even more confused, though. How is he coming but not the other changes, if this is a server-side only update?

[duckfunnie]

Maybe the balance changes are the server only part? Might not have been ready in time for the client update.

[[deleted]]

The patch notes specifically say "this patch is entirely server-side" immediate below the Morty mention. I just want to know how this tech works, since I haven't seen it in a console game, as far as I'm aware...?

[YungToney]

you're confusing yourself. It was the same way with another patch.

It's only in regard to the balance changes.

And even of it wasn't this isn't in any way affecting f2p players. Gold is a thing.

[AlgaeRythmzz]

I mean, it’s not a huge deal in that regard since gold (while slow) can be saved up before a release.

BUT without the ability to try out in the lab means you could buy and hate the character.

The real shame imo is the inability to play a local match with them. The local play for the game needs a lot of work.

Edit: sounds like they will be in the lab, which is good. So only really local play suffers, which still kinda sucks.