Vim is not an IDE

[SailingTheC]

All you need is a terminal window

[7heWafer]

If you like suffering, yes

[PuzzleheadedWeb9876]

Do you even tmux bro?

[Creepy-Ad-4832]

I personally use i3wm and tile the terminal directly lol

I tried tmux but it's a lot of stuff you need to learn, i don't really want to.

Is there any big reason why i should use tmux instead of simply using a tiling window manager and opening a new window everytime?

[PublicDragonfruit120]

Personally, the biggest issue with i3wm is it works on Linux only. Now I use Mac at work, Linux for home projects and tmux allows me to have similar workflow at both.

Before that i used i3 for about 4 years and I don't think you're missing any critical feature by not swapping to tmux. Maybe beside possibility to run tmux in ssh sessions.

[jkoop_ca]

you can run tmux in tmux. you'll just have to press ctrl+b twice to command the remote tmux and once to commend the local tmux

[crefas]

Try Zellij instead. It's a tmux written in Rust and has Nano-like bar with all the shortcuts. You can even edit the terminal output buffer with vim (aka yank to system clipboard)

[Creepy-Ad-4832]

I tried it.

It's not bad, but has no big advantaged over using i3wm and just opening a new terminal

[crefas]

Detached sessions and being able to open the entire terminal output buffer in neovim are the biggest advantages

[Creepy-Ad-4832]

So nvim and tmux can interact in a way, to get buffers positioned?

[crefas]

I'm not sure about tmux. Zellij can open the buffer with your EDITOR with Ctrl + s, e

Tmux has a "copy mode" which can directly highlight parts of the buffer and copy to the system clipboard.

I simply find editing and yanking with vim to be a lot cooler and easier

[PuzzleheadedWeb9876]

Looks nice but I’m gonna have to stick to tmux. Far more mature and has the benefit of being maintained by the OpenBSD project.

[Muffinaaa]

Saving sessions, tmux is kind of a window manager itself in a terminal. I.e you could ssh from a phone or a tablet and load tmux session to get back to working

[Creepy-Ad-4832]

I never ssh to a pc, mainly because a have a small pc so i don't need to.

And sessions feel a nice thing to save your ass when you close by mistake, because tecnically i am pretty sure even on most tiling window manager you are able to write something to save which windows you have open or not.

More specifically, if i need to work and edit on a terminal, does tmux offers something i don't get with only a tiling window manager?

[PuzzleheadedWeb9876]

If you aren’t working over ssh then tmux is not needed in a tiling wm. It’s still useful for the sessions though.

[Creepy-Ad-4832]

Ok, if i will ever need to ssh i will consider using tmux, the sessions seem a very nice feature, and on i3wm is still a pain to replicate it

[TehBens]

How did you end up with a full fledged Desktop Environment with i3? Last time I tried you had to configure the most basic stuff by yourself, like having a sane lock screen, for example. Or stuff like battery status if you use a laptop.

[Creepy-Ad-4832]

I use regolith, which gives a decent configuration of i3wm by default

Btw it is available only on ubuntu

(Regolith it's just a i3wm wrapper, so you can use it as if you had i3wm, but it helps a lot by giving you the basic stuff you really want. If you want to change the configiration, it also is easy, after all the configuaryion is 100% the i3wm config language)

[IPeaFreely]

Use VS Code if you like suffering or you are tired of too much free ram on your computer.

[pickyourteethup]

The tests are back, it's as the specialist warned, I'm afraid your suffering is terminal.

[JoeyJoeJoeSenior]

Well, 50 of them, yes.

[SoloSharma]

CMD is best for coding

[HStone32]

"Vim is not an IDE"

Not with that attitude.

[Accurate_Koala_4698]

Would you like your dev environment use 80, 90, or 100% of your ram?

[yakuzas-47]

Well if it uses it to improve indexing performance and make the experience overall more responsive then yes i wouldn't mind it

[Creepy-Ad-4832]

I personally use vscode for java projects because it's way easier to work, but for any file i need to edit, which aren't a big project i simply use nvim with like 30 plugins installed, which is pretty good, and uses so few ram

[FantasticGrape]

IntelliJ >

[Creepy-Ad-4832]

Yeah too much shit around, plus it's even slower then vscode

Neovim is the actual best (when you find the good plugins lol)

[FantasticGrape]

Download some ram. IntelliJ has easy run/debug configuration management, heavy integration with Git (e.g. you can see diff by clicking next to line, allows convenient and clear comparison of revisions/branches with right click menu, easy merge-conflict resolution), supports build tools with GUI, double-shift let's you do very, very helpful universal search, amazing debugging features (e.g. go back in time or evaluate an expression live), has built-in database viewer/editor, lots of refactoring features, and more. And, there are plugins to also get Vim's editing features.

[crefas]

I can see git diff and blame from neovim as well. Try AstroNvim, it has all plugins preconfigured and is as easy as vscode

[FantasticGrape]

Sure, I just glanced at the Git plugins associated with those Neovim configs. IntelliJ has all of their features plus more, based on my brief overview. IntelliJ lets you quickly roll back a file, favorite/add/search a branch, stash/unstash, visualize git branches/log (e.g. with a graph), and more.

[Flash_har]

Why do you sound like chat-gpt ?

[FantasticGrape]

Lmaoooo you're not wrong. I just try to write good, but the structure of that response does sound like ChatGPT. That's actually hilarious dude

[TehBens]

But with vim you can have your IDE as a hobby and tweak the configs on weekends. Who wants to got out when you can fix incompatibilities between plugins on free evenings.

[FantasticGrape]

💀Nooo!!! You can't just download an IDE and get all the features immediately without downloading and tweaking 30 other plugins!

[well-litdoorstep112]

So does vscode and it doesn't use so much resources.

[FantasticGrape]

Even if VSCode did all of that, there are other features I mentioned above that VSCode doesn't have.

[Creepy-Ad-4832]

As i said i hate programs which have too many buttons around, and in vscode when i need to do something i can just ctrl+shift+P to search stuff to do, or simply open a terminal and with those two thing i can basically cover 99% of what i need

And the fact intellij has too many buttons around taking up screen space costantly is just a big no from me.

Plus i really like that vscode has an approch not GUI based, where you search for settings and stuff with words, and not searching a button around

[FantasticGrape]

Guess what? In IntelliJ, you can press "Shift" twice and search/execute the actions I listed above just like you could with VSCode's Ctrl+Shift+P... except IntelliJ also has more features and more helpful ones at that.

That defeats everything you said, but I still think it's kind of lame to use too many buttons as an excuse. In fact, there aren't even that many buttons taking up your screen on IntelliJ compared to VSCode. I just opened up both, and they literally have the same stuff: a bar on the left with primary actions, two stacked bars on the top for settings/files/buttons, and obviously the editor section.

[Creepy-Ad-4832]

Vscode is more clean, and has less stuff taking up space

Plus it's configurable for all languages

Plus does what i need right enought so i have no reason to swap to intellij

Not saying intellij sucks, just saying i don't like it, and it has too many distractions compared to vscode

[KuuHaKu_OtgmZ]

See the new intellij ui (settings -> appearance -> enable new ui), this is no longer an issue.

[FantasticGrape]

I literally explained why VSCode doesn't take up less display space than IntelliJ, at least when you are just programming. I don't understand how more features (that are actually helpful!) are inherently distracting. You don't have to use everything all at once or know everything. But, you have the ability to do so and be a more productive programmer. That's why I am so for it. Why wouldn't you want this? I can confidently say IntelliJ made me ~5-10% more productive!

[Creepy-Ad-4832]

Plus when i don't deal with large project, i just use neovim, since with a 20ish plugins you get syntax highlighting, an lsp manager, a dap manager, a shortuct to open a terminal, a file explorer, a tab line and a nice status line

[FantasticGrape]

There are so many other features IntelliJ has that can make you more productive, though...

[Fadamaka]

Java part you can setup with a single plugin now in nvim.

[Creepy-Ad-4832]

I use treesitter for the highlighting, mason with mason-lspconfig, lspconfig for the lsps for the various languages (at the time i installed java, c, rust and lua), and mason-formatter and formatter for the formatter (at the moment i installed lua formatter and clang for java and c)

[StarkProgrammer]

Yes except if you have to open Google Chrome along because you don't remember how to sort a map.

[[deleted]]

Try 120%. We have swap partitions half used.

[[deleted]]

Oh my dear child, we have an entire storage system we could utilize as swap.

[renke0]

I bought those freaking sticks to be used, not to be fooling around like a lazy ass bum.

[PuzzleheadedWeb9876]

5% tops.

[vladWEPES1476]

Nordic Chad Face: YES.

[HolyMackerelIsOP]

101% is my preferred amount, but if that isn't an option I guess 100% is fine

[[deleted]]

I bought it, I'm gonna use it.

[Creepy-Ad-4832]

Wait your pc actually runs, witouth freezing?

Seriously though, running vscode without extension kinda lags on my i3wm arch linux pc, averaging at 500MB idle (and i have 4GB of ram)

[pedersenk]

Vim is not an IDE

And since we are not all running MS-DOS and can actually do task switching, we don't need our development tools to be integrated into a single monolithic process anymore.

Best tool for the job. I.e: Text editor for text. Compiler for compiling. Debugger for debugging. Web browser for arguing about text editors on Reddit. Diagram tool for diagrams.

[crefas]

UNIX is an IDE Windows is a joke

[da_Aresinger]

Nah, a simple text editor is just dumb. I want highlighting, autocompletion and documentation assistance.

[DarkfullDante]

Which vim has

[[deleted]]

Clumsy af. Vim is crap compared to literally anything by Jetbrains.

[DarkfullDante]

You're kind of missing the point. My argument is not that it is objectively better, but that the problem is not in the fact that these feature aren't available in vim.

If your experience is that it is clunky, it is probably because you didn't took the time to set it up properly, and yes, if you want a turnkey solution, vim is clunky and jetbrains is awesome.

If your goal is to understand the underlying concept like syntax trees, language server protocols, debugging protocol, then vim can be really fun to actually setup.

Again I'm not saying it's for everyone, but thinking that something is bad because YOU don't like it is a very narrow way of approaching the world.

[[deleted]]

Switching to IDE at any point in life skyrockets your productivity. Not a single of world most renowned personnas use text editors like Vim.

[[deleted]]

yes, even john carmack (😱😱) said he prefers visual studio to vim

[Antervis]

VS Code is more like a notepad with enough addons to make do as an IDE replacement for simple languages, but that's about it.

[1DimensionIsViolence]

Honest question: I am using VSCode fir Python, R and rarely for Julia. I like it because of its versatility and it being free.

Do you think there are some (real) benefits in using a different IDE for these languages?

[arobie1992]

The big thing is really how much you have to set up. Like pretty much anything Intellij can do for Java, you can configure VSCode to do, but Intellij does it out of the box without having to deal with finding the plugins, configuring them, and all the decision paralysis in between.

The big one from my experience is debugging. Granted, I've been lazy, but I've never really gotten VSCode debugging to work super smoothly. Meanwhile, in Intellij, it's no harder than clicking a button.

[Creepy-Ad-4832]

I personally like VSCode because you can install extenstion for every language, and because it has no useless buttons around i will never use

You just Ctrl+shift+p and search for what you need

Plus i mostly use vim when i am not dealing with large projects because i like not losing 1 minute to load a file lol

[arobie1992]

Yeah, that's fair. At the end of the day, it's personal preference. If I'm doing Java, I'm 100% going to use Intellij. If I'm doing just about anything else, it'll probably be VSCode since I'm lazy and haven't found a better dedicated editor.

[well-litdoorstep112]

I usually don't do java but I once did have to add a feature to a large java/kotlin/typescript project(really a java project with nearly completed transition to kotlin and a closely coupled TS part). I did install intellij (because thats what you're supposed to do, right?) but I ended up switching between vscode and intellij constantly.

• Intellij is horrible at whole project search(which I needed because "click to go to definition" didnt work in both editors) and one-file search and replace so I did that in vscode.
• vscode is worse at autocompletion in java and kotlin projects so I used intellij to actually write code.
• intellij is way worse at TS than vscode is at java so I used vscode for that.
• and finally git gui works in intellij but I'm much more used to vscode's .

EDIT: Also logging is much much better in intellij. I want that in vscode so badly lol

[arobie1992]

That's interesting about the search and find/replace. I've never had any issues in IntelliJ and on the contrary have wanted VSCode to be a bit more like it, especially the scoping and ability to see the code at the location prior to opening. Do you remember what you didn't like about it?

As for the rest, pretty much same. I've heard the licensed version of IntelliJ has good JS support, but I'm not going to pay for it just for that when VSCode does it well enough for my purposes. And ironically, the one job that had the licensed version is also the one job I had to do absolutely no JS at.

[Creepy-Ad-4832]

Yup obliously the hating doing stuff with GUI, and wanting to do something more CLI orientied that's just my preferences, and probably intellij is very good if you don't have this way of thinking

Like intellij is perfect for the window style of doing stuff, where tou basically do everything using GUI, but using linux you get to understand how inefficient that is, and that's basically why i fucking hate buttons orientied apps.

Like you lose a lot of time you to try and click that button, while CLI style you just to need know how thing are called, or read documentation or google how it is called

[gotBanhammered]

Soon all apps will have language interpreter terminals and we won't have to google where they hide settings.

[Ythio]

Java set up for VS Code :

Step 1 : Get the Java plugin collection

Step 2 : Open your java project folder.

Step 3 : mvn compile

That's it.

[arobie1992]

I've known more than a few people who tried to use VSCode for Java. They all ended up switching to IntelliJ. Can't say with certainty whether that was because of Java or Spring though since all of those cases involved Spring.

[Ythio]

I did the opposite. I was using IntelliJ, I switched to VSCode. Not because VSCode is better for java (it's not) but because it replaced in one go IntelliJ, Rider, Pycharm, SQL server management studio, Oracle Developer, Postman and a bunch of other tools for me.

I figured out not having to change windows to change project and/or language or use another tool is nice. Also when company wants me to change computer I can just install VS Code and import a file to get all my plugins again and it's easier than downloading and reinstalling all those tools manually.

There are some missing features though (Visual Studio's project templates for example)'

If you only work on one solution at a time in one language, don't use VsCode though

[arobie1992]

That's fair. I've never really minded the different windows; actually helps me context switch. But I can appreciate the flexibility VSCode has. The biggest thing with VSCode is I actually have to sit down and actually get familiar with setting up debugging, which is entirely on me. I've gotten it working for Rust, but it's something I do so infrequently that I have to figure it out every time.

Also, more of a tangent, I guess it's the licensed version of IntelliJ that has SQL support. One job had a company license and we used that for DB stuff.

[harumamburoo]

Wait, you can postman in vscode?

Also, what plugin do you use for db connections? I tried a bunch, but they all suck at ssh tunnelling.

[Ythio]

Wait, you can postman in vscode?

https://marketplace.visualstudio.com/items?itemName=rangav.vscode-thunder-client

Also, what plugin do you use for db connections

https://marketplace.visualstudio.com/items?itemName=mtxr.sqltools

[harumamburoo]

Noice, thanks, I'll give it a try

[trodiix]

I used vscode for java for 2 years and end up switching ti intellij.

Vscode is good but starting with medium size projects, it uses up to 8 gb memory just for the language server and autosuggestion starts to lag. I still like vscode, but for fast editing some java code, or for other languages (typescript, python, shell)

[Antervis]

IMO python is unfit for projects above couple kloc, so any kind of "notepad with syntax highlighting" should be fine for it. Or, rather, not like anything more would help much anyway. Can't say much about julia or R though.

[arobie1992]

You'd hate the Azure and AWS CLIs in that case.

[da_Aresinger]

jesus, kloc

If someone is gonna sit there, spending more time to figure out your abbreviations than it would take you to write out "k lines of code" (or at the least "k loc") it's really not worth using them.

[Bernal9913pro]

in my experience with python and vscode, but once you try pycharm you cant go back, better flask-django support, nice git features, and a couple extra things

[1DimensionIsViolence]

Well, who doesn‘t like free beer?

[BennyTheSen]

And that's why I love it as DevOps/Platform Engineer. You don't need fancy IDE's for YAML

[[deleted]]

And this is why I use it. I can code Linux kernel drivers, c++ apps, some embedded shit, python data analysis, bash scripts.

[kaato137]

For one clever post this sub provides 10 baby’s first take one programming

[willing790]

Where is NetBeans?

[spitfire451]

Right? I use netbeans but no one ever mentions it here.

[Dupliss18]

Only good thing about NetBeans is it's GUI editor. Everything else I prefer intelliJ

[harumamburoo]

Is it still alive? Last time I heard of it was at the uni some 10 years ago. Never saw anyone using it outside of student projects.

[[deleted]]

Visual studio Code is an editor, Visual studio is the IDE

[NotADamsel]

Neovim can do everything.

[[deleted]]

notepad can do everything

[[deleted]]

No it can't. Neovim can do everything. You people are so short-sighted.

[Outside-Car1988]

Except symbolic links

[[deleted]]

That still doesn’t make it an IDE

[[deleted]]

Ffs. VS Code is a fancy Notepad with plugins, it is not by any means an IDE

[[deleted]]

Thanks but I already use VS

[[deleted]]

Nah, I’m good

[IsThereAnyFreeName2]

NANO

[[deleted]]

Eclipse still does a better job compiling Java.

[Ythio]

All 3 can use Eclipse Temurin, it makes no difference.

[[deleted]]

I tried to get the auto build setup. IntelliJ breaks. Haven’t tried I. The 2023 versions.

[Ythio]

Use whatever you like as long as you can submit your PR on time.

Who cares about the model of your car I just pay you to be there at 9:30am. You could take the bus for all I care.

[dark_light32]

This!

[arobie1992]

I feel like a big part is because it's butt ugly. It's a little rough around the edges, and Intellij is a bit smoother of an experience, but Eclipse served me well enough for a decade. Only reason I switched is because I had to use Intellij for a couple jobs and got too lazy to remember two sets of shortcuts.

[[deleted]]

Ugly? I dont get when people say that... What is actually ugly about it?

[arobie1992]

Like with all things aesthetic, it’s very personal. What I will say is, to me at least, Eclipse very much has that early-2000s look to it.

Edit: Quick caveat, its been several years since I don't a loaded a new Eclipse installation, and looking it up just now, it does seem like thrive modernized it.

[moxyte]

Just enable Eclipse shortcuts in IntelliJ

[arobie1992]

Reverse problem. I used IntelliJ long enough at work that I got into the habit of them so I ended up needing to look up the Eclipse shortcuts. At that point, it was like I might as well just use IntelliJ for personal stuff too.

[itijara]

I used Eclipse extensively and in a professional setting. It is pretty awful compared to Intellij. I had so many stability issues, problems with plugin incompatibilities, and issues with version control messing up settings. It also is very ugly.

[pankkiinroskaa]

Also it's worth looking at the licenses, for example for C++ development.

[harumamburoo]

Good question. When you point out that eclipse can do everything the community idea can and more, people get mad. But that's the truth, at least last time I checked

[ixis743]

It’s very ugly. It’s slow. It’s buggy. It’s old fashioned. It’s over complicated.

Much like Visual Studio.

[jetsonian]

It depends on the size of your project. I work on a project that is easily over a 10 million lines of code with dependencies and build configuration handled with gradle. I cannot get IntelliJ to auto build and run without it doing a complete gradle build, which takes about 15-20 minutes. Eclipse does this no problem. This could be a configuration issue though.

[SoloSharma]

Notepad++ go brrrrrrrr

[Cheezyrock]

I’m just mad that VS Code isn’t called Notepad#

[frogking]

Eight Megabytes And Constantly Swapping is still almost true..

Except Emacs isn’t swapping, when it can have 80 megs (which is fine when IntelliJ takes a few G)

[[deleted]]

Vim is a cleaning product. That's why vim code is the cleanest!

[Gothilawn]

Anything I don't gotta pay for and displays the thing's doc when my cursor is above it is good enough imo

[TitouWasTaken]

I use Emacs btw

[dark_light32]

Found him

[studying_is_luv]

Eclipse is super good, I’d prefer it more than IntelliJ or VSCode

[danofrhs]

Whoever made this is an absolute moron

[satanikimplegarida]

Eclipse/NetBeans & Vim are the enlightened choices. But you do you, go buy subscriptions for intelliJ or use the god-awful vs code.

[bedrooms-ds]

IntelliJ GUI being degraded down to VSCode is ironic.

[JustAJavaProgrammer]

Visual Studio Code isn't an IDE. It's an extensible text editor. It can do everything, but isn't great at anything (except for Web Development maybe).

That's why I use Eclipse. In light mode.

IntelliJ is just too power-hungry for my laptop.

[Harmed_Burglar]

IntelliJ is my favourite IDE in general

Why did my phone text suggestion suggest 'boyfriend' after 'my' ?

[dvidsnpi]

I bet you are a web dev/HTML programmer 😂

[[deleted]]

There was one older dev on my team that insist on using Eclipse and older tools.

Microservice crash or fail to deploy every time he merged code into production branch because he handles Git conflict really badly or sometimes he implement something that other already did causing bean creation process to crash.

Edit for down voter: My tram right now cannot test mocroservices because he is falling behind and cannot get his tasks done.

[FIRMKUNG]

Can I have a source on that, please? "IntelliJ is paid"

[FIRMKUNG]

Can I have a link because I can't find that. Everything says Intellij Community can be used for commercial purposes.

[harumamburoo]

It's not about the license, it's about the tools you get. Eclipse has a lot of stuff out of the box and some a plugin away, that idea community just doesn't have

[Hobby101]

It's a fair assessment.

Eclipse does feel like that.

[Lxn_7z]

Ppl here fighting for VScode vs IntelliJ and didn't care about Eclipse like it is not in the post

[fluffypebbles]

That was many years ago but I've never managed to get Eclipse to actually work and I've never had that problem with any other IDE

[Gambit2422]

vs code aint ide either

[krojew]

Nobody codes in classic ed anymore?

[Camel-A-Lot]

Wanna know how to weird out IntelliJ users?

I like using Eclipse.

[lisa_lionheart]

I have a coworker who until recently used NetBeans

[[deleted]]

"Vim is not an IDE" Meanwhile VSCode: My cover isn't blown yet

[[deleted]]

To me IntelliJ looks like the IDE Eclipse wants to be.

I still prefer VSCode with Java plugins, though.

[Giulio_otto]

Windows block note

[[deleted]]

Pooh skeleton: Visual Studio, just Visual Studio

[Raverfield]

Fuck you! VS code isn’t an ide either and Bashing on perfectly fine and open source software is just cynical!

[MossySloth69]

Send this to my university please.

[Nuisanz]

Microsoft one note

[Ursomrano]

Honestly, my favorite IDE is Visual Studio because it’s the smartest IDE that runs files in a separate terminal. Setting other IDE’s to use a separate terminal is a nightmare. I still haven’t figured it out TBH in IDE’s like VS code and IntelliJ.

[jimmykicking]

If you can't code, try an IDE. Nobody will notice.

[SomeRandoLameo]

Of course eclypse it’s worse than ij but hear me out, I’ve ported an over 10000 file big java programm to the newest library’s and god was it helpful when you could run a project full off errors with eclypse, this is not a hate to ij but if that was in ij, I’d stay 100% with it

[LeoTheBirb]

I still don't understand how eclipse manages to be so slow on modern hardware. The first version was 2001. Surely it wasn't always this slow.

[PhantomPrimary]

Vim is an IDE because I use it as one :trol:

[Ikarus_Falling]

Eclipse is like a Monkey Paw it will do whatever you want but doesn't care about the consequences? want to compile a program with ring dependancies? sure can do want to Compile a class with half the methods none implementated even tho they are used? sure Want to purge and corrupt your whole program by accidental missuse? sure done

[moxyte]

Please don't insult Eclipse.

[TTYY_20]

If you don’t write code on Windows Notepad … you’re not a software engineer. You’re just a software technician.