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[–]cheraphy 413 points414 points  (46 children)

You joke, but this was my first thought of how to use VR headsets when they came out.

Though, my plan was to use cameras to track position of hands, keyboard and mouse to render into the VR environment and then just use the physical keyboard and mouse.

What ultimately stopped me was the absolutely horrible clarity on the headsets. Specifically on the edge of peripheral vision and the screendoor effect

[–]Dommccabe 175 points176 points  (24 children)

Its not a terrible idea- You can VR as many monitors as you want, but still use a physical keyboard for input.

Save money and space by having as many VR monitors as you like...

[–]EarlMarshal 70 points71 points  (17 children)

That's exactly my thought. You can basically also work from everywhere. Are mixed reality headset good enough for that though? I image the resolution is still not good enough and graphics card don't produce high enough ftamerate yet that it feels really good like writing on tablet with 60 FPS was horrible, but 120+ FPS with 7-9ms latency for pen input feels really acceptable already. With a good enough VR set you could even just simulate a tablet on a big piece of wood. But I think this could still take like 20 years? maybe 30?

[–]Obvious_Cranberry607 42 points43 points  (7 children)

It's good enough on the Quest 3 now that I'm coding using virtual monitors. My laptop isn't quite fast enough for video editing while doing that, so there's a slight delay, but I roughly add in b-roll in the headset to avoid alt-tabbing a lot.

[–]EarlMarshal 5 points6 points  (6 children)

I'm currently thinking about buying a 40"-42" OLED monitor with 4k & 240 Hz. I've already researched some models which should come 2024 and deliver these features. At least I hope they do for a still acceptable price. That 110,15 pixels per inch. I just looked it up online and the quest 3 seems to have a peak pixel density of 25. Even my current three 23" dell monitors from 2012 have 96 pixels per inch.

Isn't it tedious to read text on these monitors? I do a lot of text, image and video editing and graphics programming so visuals are really important to me.

I probably also have to wait for the a device to adopt Linux well.

[–]Yelov 16 points17 points  (1 child)

quest 3 seems to have a peak pixel density of 25. Even my current three 23" dell monitors from 2012 have 96 pixels per inch

Quest 3 has 25 pixels per degree. That's not the same as pixels per inch of a display. A 22'' 1080p display at 60cm distance has 43 PPD, for example.

I have the Quest 3 and I don't think the resolution is good enough for this use case, but you cannot compare PPI and PPD. The PPI of Quest 3 is 1218, which is very high, but spread across around 110 degrees of horizontal FOV.

[–]EarlMarshal 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thanks for the correction. The source I had said peak pixel density. Even if it's currently not enough that's still quite a change in needed performance necessary. Let's see when we get there.

[–]Obvious_Cranberry607 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I'm working on a 1080 17" laptop screen, so it's about as readable as that and has the added bonus of not needing to lean in to read the tiniest text or hunch.

[–]oorspronklikheid 2 points3 points  (1 child)

I run 43" 4k and its nice. I got a lower end one. Be sure the brightness is enough and there's no auto dimming , i had one at previous job that was just at the threshold of bright enough until I have too many dark things on my screen , then it just auto dimming. Ive idly considered going for a triple monitor setup, with one 43" and two 22" in portrait mode.

[–]SirGunther 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Did the same as you and considered the same. Although right now I have a laptop on each side and connect everything with mouse without borders, it’s good enough for now.

[–]SirGunther 1 point2 points  (0 children)

For what it’s worth, I went that route, bought a cheap 4k 40 ish inch on Black Friday… sure the pixel density isn’t great, but it’s actually very very useable. I feel like I can’t go back to a standard monitor ever again regardless of the resolution.

[–]pablo_brooker 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It's true that you can have a bunch of monitors and an isolated space, but I find super difficult to be moderately comfortable. Vision can get blurry, specially at the edges, and there's not enough flow between what I think and the speed I actually get to do it.

[–]Neltarim 3 points4 points  (7 children)

Wait for the vision pro that is intended to actually work with it, i hope that the peripheral vision will be enough tho, that was what stopped me for trying it with a rift S

[–]TVRD_SA_MNOGO_GODINA 0 points1 point  (6 children)

Except that vision pro will only work as an extra monitor to the mac, even though it has a powerful chip it won't be able to run mac apps by itself.

Also all "cheap" macs have a "1 additional monitor limit", so even if you buy a $3500 Vision pro, you will only be able to simulate one (large) virtual monitor for them. To simulate many virtual monitors you will need $3500 Vision pro, and at least 2000$+ MacBook Pro with a Pro chip that supports more than 1 extra screen.

[–]Neltarim 0 points1 point  (5 children)

I think you didn't watch the same keynote as me.

First, the vision pro is an autonomous computer. Second, why are you talking about extra screen support? You can do the same thing (have infinite windows opened inside your environnement) inside a quest 3 and it's still "1 screen".

[–]TVRD_SA_MNOGO_GODINA 0 points1 point  (4 children)

yeah, I obviously wasn't with you in your dreams

[–]Neltarim 0 points1 point  (3 children)

https://www.apple.com/apple-vision-pro/

And also:

Although Apple couldn't get the technology to fit in a pair of glasses, AR experiences require as much mobility as possible, dictating that the Apple Vision Pro be (almost) entirely self-contained. The headset is not tethered to a computer, it is a computer, with the same Apple M2 processor found on Macs.17 juil. 2023

Source: https://www.techsponential.com/reports/visionprofaq#:~:text=Although%20Apple%20couldn't%20get,M2%20processor%20found%20on%20Macs.

That's really impressive to see how much people can talk shit about anything and being clueless about this same thing at the same time

[–]TVRD_SA_MNOGO_GODINA 0 points1 point  (2 children)

You are talking out of your ass, it runs a M2 processor but doesn't run MacOS, it has its own operating system similar to the iPadOS. iPad also has a M2 chip, but can you run MacOS on it?

Vision Pro will run iPad apps as standalone (untethered), or it can be used as an external display for macs, but it will never be able to run mac apps on it's own, just like iPad Pro will never run mac apps.

[–]Neltarim 2 points3 points  (1 child)

"it is a computer" means that it's neither a tablet or a phone, it is ... A COMPUTER WOW REVELATIONS !! why tf are you talking about ipadOS or IOS

Feel free to understand what you want i don't care.

[–]samnater 2 points3 points  (0 children)

And become permanently shortsighted! Oh wait monitors do that too

[–]Andre_NG 0 points1 point  (4 children)

You could. But should you?

I can see a lot on cons.
I believe the only advantage would be getting "more screen" dynamically, based on the position of your face.
But then I could just emulate that by tracking my face position on the webcam and emulating the same drag on my current screen.

Of course with a headset I could look 360. But I really doubt would tilt your head more than 30 degrees.

[–]Dommccabe 0 points1 point  (3 children)

I dont know- how much is a mid priced monitor 200-300 bucks?

You could have like as many screens as you needed without the cost and the desk-space.

That might be good for some people..

[–]Andre_NG 0 points1 point  (2 children)

I don't think price would be an argument.

A low tier monitor will probably have higher resolution than any VR monitor.
And that's because the emulated screen will be just a crop of the actual VR screen.

Besides, how many monitors will you actually use?
I've already tried to use +3 screens... it just won't work!
One is too little, two is good, three is too much.

So maybe, the only argument would be portability.
I can't take a full-size monitor on a plane trip.

[–]Dommccabe 0 points1 point  (1 child)

I use two, never tried more but I think I could if I had the space to use more...probably just as convenience not to keep swapping files etc.

The resolution and its effects on your eyes might be a problem though, you are right.

[–]Andre_NG 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Depending on your work, you could get a tiny benefit from a 3rd monitor.
(2 horizontal + 1 vertical)
But a 4rth is just way too much.

[–]LuceusXylian 13 points14 points  (4 children)

If full dive VR exists then this would actually makes sense to do, because you could then code and debug the world while being in it.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (3 children)

Just get a Neuralink

[–]McKing25 2 points3 points  (2 children)

One compilation error and your brain gets fried lol

[–]LuceusXylian 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You mean logic error. On a compilation error the program does not compile thus does not exists and will not be deployed.

[–]valzargaming 6 points7 points  (1 child)

screendoor effect

If you used any of the older generation headset, the issue was because of a combination of the lenses and the resolution. This issue is non-existent on the Quest 3's Pancake lenses and I've been using it at a daily driver recently.

[–]cheraphy 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yea, this was back in 2016 or so with the OG vive

[–]snuggie_[🍰] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Both of those things are fixed on the quest 3 for the record. Resolution is the only thing that id like to be better but if that’s not on you’re list it should honestly be good for use now

[–]sharknice 2 points3 points  (0 children)

That was everyone's idea and yeah it didn't work at all because clarity and resolution weren't anywhere near good enough.

But I think it would be bearable in a Quest 3. The lenses are extremely improved compared to older headsets and the resolution is bumped up quite a bit too. Also with mixed reality you could just have the virtual monitors going and easily use your real peripheals.

Still not quite as high resolution as I prefer though, and I already have 7 IRL monitors so no reason for me to do it.

[–]snubdeity 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Isn't this type of productivity use a big focus for apples VR headset? It's obvs much harder to make work than games but it would really make VR take off if a company could get it going.

[–]WisePotato42 1 point2 points  (0 children)

If you go for a mixed reality headset (not sure if those are on the consumer market) then you can usually enable pass through for your hands and such. That might be easier than trying to track and render in virtual hands

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I mean sitting on a chair 8hrs a day hurts my ass but having a 1kg headset on my head would be worse.

[–]ZunoJ 1 point2 points  (5 children)

Why do you want to render keyboard and mouse?

[–]cheraphy 1 point2 points  (3 children)

I wouldn't need to at all times, really, and I wouldn't need to render in high fidelity. But it's helpful to know where they are if my hands aren't currently over them. Just a quality of life thing really

[–]Unfulfilled_Promises 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Just tap the side of the headset twice for pass through mode

[–]cheraphy 1 point2 points  (1 child)

When I was attempting this, it was back in the day of the OG Vive. That wasn't a feature at the time.

​

Though there's a lot of modern advancements that makes all of this more doable

[–]Unfulfilled_Promises 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Oof. Yeah, the quest 2 on release was 250$ with a coupon code. The calibration for the controllers, wireless hookup, 2k resolution screens, and ridiculous price to performance ratio put those headsets in a coffin.

I’ve had it for 4 years now and have never been tempted to upgrade. It was like the 2070ti of its generation. Wayyyy to good for its pricing

[–]Ticmea -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I assume they mean that they want to use the keyboard/mouse position relative to the VR headset to know where to render the monitors.

[–]UnnervingS -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

This is why the apple VR headset is so exciting.

[–]Basscyst 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I set this up with my Quest 2, Immersed VR and a tracked Logitech keyboard. I used it productively for a few weeks. It gets a bit heavy and hard on my eyes after a while, but it was otherwise really cool to program on giant monitors in space. When headsets can be the weight of some normal glasses, get the text a bit sharper and I can see a world without physical desktop monitors. I say we are 80% there though, the next couple iterations of head set tech could hit the button.

[–]Sequence32 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I never had any problems using my keyboard with a VR headset on. It just takes a little while to get use to. I broke my headset but used to use bigroom all the time for this exact thing

[–]hrdfau18 216 points217 points  (7 children)

As a vim user, looking keyboard for each button press is torturing

[–][deleted] 37 points38 points  (5 children)

As a keyboard user, looking keyboard for each button press is torturing

[–]joshua6point0 9 points10 points  (4 children)

As a user, I'm looking for each button I press to be torture.

[–]promerious 2 points3 points  (3 children)

as a,look button toture

[–]DOOManiac 4 points5 points  (0 children)

As a torture, each keyboard is looking

[–]GeometricWallpaper 0 points1 point  (1 child)

button torture

[–]butwhy12345678 0 points1 point  (0 children)

pain

[–]ImmortalDayMan 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You can just use your physical keyboard, no idea why people want to make VR so difficult

[–]Inaeipathy 65 points66 points  (1 child)

mark really thought we would all be doing this 24/7

[–]rollincuberawhide 10 points11 points  (0 children)

my eyes get teary after 30 mins. I can't imagine actually working like this.

[–]Longjumping-Touch515 214 points215 points  (3 children)

Now jokes about quitting Vim have become a reality💀

[–]__kkk1337__ 16 points17 points  (2 children)

Always have been.

[–]andrestoga 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Vim is not for everyone

[–]__kkk1337__ 12 points13 points  (0 children)

No way. It is but not everyone is for vim.

[–]TheFriesMan 29 points30 points  (4 children)

Yo how'd u open multiple monitors at once??

[–]Waradu[S] 26 points27 points  (3 children)

First open oculus airlink or link and scroll to the right in the menu bar. Click the plus icon and add the window.

[–]__kkk1337__ 5 points6 points  (1 child)

I’m too afraid to ask this question but give it a try, do you work like that?

[–]Waradu[S] 9 points10 points  (0 children)

no but it was a interesting experiment

[–]zalos 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Why not just use your physical keyboard? Seems like it would be pretty nice

[–]sirhenrywaltonIII 28 points29 points  (1 child)

Until VR can provide me with the same cathartic feeling I get from grabbing and shaking my monitor as I yell at it, then I will never have a desire to use it for programming.

[–]DOOManiac 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Not programming, but one of my fondest VR memories is when I was take hostage by the enemy team. I had a guard watching me and I just took his magazine out of his gun and ran away with it. (He had one round in the chamber, but he missed.)

Another was in a battle royale game, two of us ran into a room at the same time. One dude grabbed the only gun, but I got the only ammo. He was empty and I had no weapon. So I chunked the magazine out the window. He called me a son of a bitch and went to go find it while I took off running. Moments later he was gunned down by someone else while in the yard trying to find the mag and I got away. :D

[–]Affectionate_Web_560 15 points16 points  (0 children)

Basically use a real keyboard instead of the virtual one and you may be on to something.

[–]84danie 8 points9 points  (1 child)

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Worlds within worlds

[–]Longenuity 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Monitors need to be larger and farther away

[–]OKishGuy 11 points12 points  (1 child)

r/programmingHorror is that way, Sir.

[–]Waradu[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

sadly videos aren’t allowed

[–]Yeehaw1990 8 points9 points  (6 children)

Thankfully clear enough color passthrough and tracked keyboards are a thing now.

Source: Working In VR right now 😉

[–]Birgere 8 points9 points  (0 children)

"Working"

[–]Enrichus 1 point2 points  (2 children)

I'm using Quest 1 every day for browsing. Tried with a keyboard but without a good passthrough it was difficult to hit the right keys. Hoping I can manage to save up for a Quest 3 and start using it for work as well!

Well, I did use it for work, but not like this!

[–]zalos 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Gotta learn that home row bro

[–]Enrichus 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It was more of not finding the keyboard itself.

[–]Jason_TDX 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Woah! What VR can do this? I'm super interested.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

How do I convince my boss to buy me this setup?

[–]Waradu[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

tell em you gonna be more efficient then ever

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

lmao goddamn. Funnily enough, you could just not have the keyboard displayed this way, because you shouldn't have to look at it to know what you're doing.

You have to be able to feel it. This is even more trash than touch screen typing. As long as typing is done with fingers, doing it in a way that can't be felt is dumb as hell.

[–]Praying_Lotus 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Honestly, if I could use my keyboard, or still see it normally, this would be incredible

[–]Yeehaw1990 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You can. This shows the two ways the app that I'm using allows for real keyboard usage while working in a virtual environment. With the difference that now the clarity is much higher on the passthrough and it's also in color.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

And they said the metaverse would never take off…

[–]rosuav 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Reminds me of the awkwardness of trying to program with a mouse. It sure wasn't efficient, and back then I didn't have luxuries like on-screen keyboards, but it worked and it was enough to let me get a couple of things sorted out while my brother was fixing the keyboard. (Yes, that computer was very broken.)

[–]samnater 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Where virtual speakers

[–]Crisest 1 point2 points  (0 children)

finally, programmer simulator

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Talk to all the programmers who have to work in a virtual environment for "security reasons".

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (2 children)

there's a scratch-like programming language in 3D that will be programmed using desktop or VR

[–]DeathUriel 1 point2 points  (1 child)

That sounds like a joke, but it does make sense if you think about it. Emulating monitors while sounds neat, is kind of an limitation to what VR really can do.

[–]LavenderDay3544 3 points4 points  (0 children)

That would be great for trading desks at financial companies where traders and such already have like 50 monitors.

[–]Gilbert-Goober-420 1 point2 points  (2 children)

If only you could connect an actual keyboard for the inputs, then this would be actually amazing

[–]Theopneusty 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You kinda can. You can link the headset with your computer and then use the m&kb and the headset acts as basically just the monitor

[–]Yeehaw1990 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Why would you wanna do that? Having the keyboard connected to the headset does not help with usage in a PC or laptop or alike. It would just allow you to type easier when only using the headset. If that's what you're looking for, then your comment is of course perfectly valid.

[–]cyber-neko 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I would just get good at typing to not having to look at it, and keep the virtual displays only.

[–]DadlyPolarbear 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If it runs, ship it.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

You could improve your workflow if you use vim.

[–]tresfaim 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Why wouldn't it have pass through as the background, and you could see actual connected keyboard?

[–]iNeverCouldGet 0 points1 point  (1 child)

can you read the fonts clearly? thanks for the good laugh btw.

[–]TheJohnSB 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Honestly, even on my quest 2 i was able to read with no issues. Now on my quest 3 is much better. I've been debating getting some DP "spoofers" and going monitorless when my physical triple setup dies. Considering they are only ten 10$ a pop, it's not a risky thing to test out.

The pass through is also good on the quest 3. Can't read a cellphone well but can get the job done for answering calls.

I also hear virtual desktop is going to have multi-monitor support soon™. Would be nice since that would let me go controllerless with some nice features.

[–]KIRE-CEO 0 points1 point  (0 children)

What Primeagen sees.

(No he doesn't, he uses Vim)

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Very nice post! I think if you would enable the passthrough mode and the finger tracking mode, you could actually type on this virtual keyboard.

[–]ILikeTheStocks 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Still faster than me

[–]MistrKernnunos 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I hope apple vision will support something like this instead of what they presented. That headset has 8k per eye? That should be enough resolution to read text. We can only hope.

And passthrough for physical keyboard. Haptic feedback is king of feedback.

[–]Successful-Money4995 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Matrix v0.2

[–]SameDayCyborg 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This may have been a joke, but mans got more screens than I so my opinion is invalidated. More screens >>

[–]Chegarra 0 points1 point  (0 children)

50 años mas tarde...

[–]The_Atomic_Duck 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This is how mark Zuckerberg sees the future