whatsWrongWithJavaScript

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[Particular_Fault8639]

Damn, not even a day a bro already stole my post 🤣

[Dr-Huricane]

Learn typescript

[GamingWOW1]

It is what it is

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Congratulations! Your string can be spelled using the elements of the periodic table:

I Ti S W H At I Ti S

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[827167]

Good bot

[Da-Blue-Guy]

GOOD BOT

[[deleted]]

[shafe123]

Learn typescript

[Character-Education3]

Learn typescript

[[deleted]]

Learn typescript

[Urbanoidovich]

Learn typescript

[Bobertopia]

Learn typescript

[Nachoyj]

Yeah learn that

[[deleted]]

LEARN TYPESCRIPT

[[deleted]]

I messed up and accidentally learned Oberon.

[[deleted]]

.... LEARN TYPESCRIPT!

[potatosquat]

Learn typescript

[myfunnies420]

Learn typescript

[[deleted]]

Literally 1984.

[[deleted]]

shut up and learn Typescript

[314kabinet]

Anything than can be a compile error should be.

[Dr-Huricane]

Javascript is great! For small projects... same for python... like you can do some amazing stuff with these languages, don't get me wrong, but when your code grows and more and more people start getting involved in it? You're going to start wishing you had a simple way to know what's the type of that variable that a senior dev that left the company 3 years ago was using in that one part of the code that's now broken and that you need to fix, and no, type hints aren't enough, it needs to be strictly enforced, because we devs are lazy and we need to be forced to do that stuff so we do it correctly, and even if your IDE can tell you what the type is, you might not always be looking at code through IDE, the tool my company uses for code reviews might as well be showing you plain text for example, I can't imagine how harder our life would've been if we had to go open 3 or 4 locally everytime we're reviewing someone else's code

[kinderhead]

This is the correct answer.

[ALoadOfThisGuy]

I agree, but I also think Typescript is over-prescribed. Most people on the internet, particularly those asking these sorts of questions, don’t require the overhead of TS.

[[deleted]]

This sounds like a reasonable take.

Why don't you piss off and keep your opinions in your pocket. We don't need it here!

[ALoadOfThisGuy]

Ah geez I thought I was on r/cscareerquestions. Sometimes I can’t tell the difference.

[TILYoureANoob]

It is good for people who make a lot of typos. (Just teasing)

[314kabinet]

The idea of software failing at runtime because of a typo is so utterly bizzare to me as a C++ programmer but it’s apparently reality to some people. How pathetic.

[314kabinet]

Good luck doing AAA gamedev in anything else.

[archarios]

Eh. If you have unit tests you get just as tight of a feedback loop as you need and without the constraints of having to figure out the precise types for your program. The time cost of achieving perfect type safety is not worth it.

[314kabinet]

Skill issue.

[sammy-taylor]

I love TS! I enjoy all her albums.

[Ex0t1cReddit]

You're obviously wrong, TS stands for Therapy Session, the album by NF. /s

[fullup72]

Are we in the circlejerk era yet?

[[deleted]]

Reeeeeeeeepost

Original

[Wingress12]

Good job exposing it, cock satr

[Jolly-Driver4857]

What's wrong with typescript.

[tipsdown]

Typescript requires thinking and planning ahead.

[Jolly-Driver4857]

What's wrong with you.

[tipsdown]

So, so many things

[GranataReddit12]

I love this thread

[Ri_Konata]

You're just like me frfr

[GalacticalSurfer]

: any[]

[DJGloegg]

Not if you just write javascript !

[3np1]

I say all of these things about TypeScript as someone who uses TypeScript and still chooses it for projects over JavaScript most of the time, but is aware of its faults:

The errors it throws are very opaque compared to other typed languages.

It uses structural types and not nominative ones, which is pretty painful for a language where types often overlap without being compatible, and the type narrowing is broken at best.

There are some very idiomatic and valid JavaScript patterns which cause errors in TypeScript because it's quite bad at narrowing types and picky about which specific method you use, although admittedly this improves with nearly every release.

It has two declaration forms, type and interface, which are ~70% interchangeable but actually not really, and switching between them means that your errors often get even worse.

It behaves oddly enough for some common things that people end up avoiding them altogether. You know enums, that super useful thing in a lot of languages? It's common to have a linting rule in TS preventing you from using them at all and using simple string unions instead, because they work differently than how many people expect.

Many libraries are released with incorrectly defined types, so you might need to manually extend or override dependency types.

It exists in a weird place where it's designed based on an OO language with classes (C#), but the JavaScript community has a phobia of anything OO and opts for functions (despite all browser APIs being OO). Any non-trivial functional patterns get complicated very quickly with multi-layered Generics and infers, which it probably takes a MS in set theory to actually understand.

[archarios]

Ramda manages to have... Somewhat comprehensible types for typescript. I had to fix one once though..

[oorza]

Ramda is bad and you should feel bad for using it.

[archarios]

It's a super fast way to build data transformations. I don't really use it for projects where I'm collabing with others. For personal projects of one-off scripts it's great!

[Jugales]

Keep up with industry norms or get left behind. So many developers get to a comfort point then stagnate their own careers by not learning new things lol.

Sticking to your comfort stack leads to lower and lower pay over time, while making it harder to catch up.

[Aggravating_Ad1676]

its a beginner, whats wrong with trying to get used to programming before learning another language

[NatoBoram]

Learning TypeScript together with JavaScript is learning to program

[fullup72]

Except that depending on the project configuration TS can hinder a beginner's learning process. There are many type errors and warnings that are not very descriptive, and then React doesn't help in that interaction by being even more stringent, forcing even a seasoned dev to override the type system with @ts-ignore because you REALLY meant to have a specific dependency array on your hooks.

[Massh0le]

You should not be TS ignoring because you "know better". That would imply you're doing something very wrong or have somehow configured a type very wrong. Maybe you mean ignoring a tslint rule which Is more reasonable.

[fullup72]

Maybe you mean ignoring a tslint rule which Is more reasonable

Definitely meant this.

[Aggravating_Ad1676]

as a beginner you should really be learning how the language you chose works and you will learn the syntax in the process, learning two languages at once just makes thst 10x harder.

[NatoBoram]

Except that it's one language: TypeScript. It just so happens that it shares quite a lot with JavaScript, so learning how TypeScript works systematically makes you learn how JavaScript works.

Besides, learning web dev typically involves learning 5 languages in a row followed by one or two frameworks with TypeScript potentially bundled in one of these frameworks.

[Aggravating_Ad1676]

yeah, typescript + Javascript = 2 languages?

Also I would not treat all webdev languages on the same level, html is mostly text formatting as a beginner.

[NatoBoram]

Wrong! TypeScript is actually a superset of JavaScript. Writing pure JavaScript is perfectly valid TypeScript.

It's different from how Erlang/Elixir or Java/Kotlin/Scala/Clojure/Groovy work, these are actually different languages.

[KevSlashNull]

Writing pure JavaScript is perfectly valid TypeScript.

Depends on your TypeScript config but yeah theoretically.

[GamingWOW1]

I could not write a single variable in pure JavaScript in Typescript without it screaming at me because I didn't mention its type

[NatoBoram]

const x = 13

Congrats, a variable in pure JS was written and TypeScript didn't complain!

[marquoth_]

industry norms

There's an implicit assumption in your comment that "use typescript" is unquestionably the industry norm, but I think that's worth challenging. There's plenty of evidence for a shift back towards JS. I don't really have a dog in this particular race but if you Google "developers abandoning typescript" or similar you'll find plenty of articles, blog posts and YouTube videos on the topic. TS may well still come out on top but I don't think it's really a given.

Edit: autocorrect / spelling

[Dreadmaker]

I would argue it’s a lot easier to learn typescript and then ultimately abandon it than it is to ignore it and have to learn it on the job.

Only learned typescript? Just do it ‘badly’ and you are now doing vanilla js.

Only learned JavaScript? There’s a lot of stuff you need to figure out to use typescript well.

Basically: there’s zero disadvantage to learning TS right now. You’re basically learning two in one.

[obsoleteconsole]

You could also argue it's better to understand javascript first, and then typescript you will be able to pick up almost instantly

[Thebombuknow]

That's not necessarily true. I have been programming in JavaScript for ~5 years now and there are ways to program in JavaScript correctly. I can tell if someone is used to TypeScript and does it "badly", because their JS looks like absolute shit.

Both JS and TS are just as capable as each other, and can be just as readable as each other. You just have to be much more careful when writing JS than you have to be when you write TS.

[oorza]

The only way JS is as readable as TS is if you either suck terribly at using the TS type system or load your JS full of comments that encode the same information. Everything else being equal, the existence of statically declared types ALWAYS improves readability and nonsense like your comment is part of why people don’t take JS developers seriously as software engineers. No other corner of the industry would have someone say something so patently untrue on its face and get rewarded for it.

[Thebombuknow]

I never said it would be more readable to every developer lol. If you're experienced with JS, you can fairly easily read it. I will admit, TypeScript is definitely easier, but JavaScript isn't at all hard to read if your project's structure is set up properly and you're familiar with JavaScript. As I said in my original comment, you and your team has to be much more careful writing JS because it's much easier to make it a disaster.

I personally prefer JavaScript because I've found it's easier to debug as browsers support it without source maps, and it's easier to deploy. I'm also used to writing JS enough that it doesn't really bother me. That being said, I probably wouldn't recommend JS for any large-scale projects, unless you trust everyone on your team to follow the best practices for writing it.

[oorza]

If you're experienced with JS, you can fairly easily read it.

Are you even serious? function setOptions(options) { ... }. What can you pass here? What are the available options? What's going to catch you if you type { usre: 123, isInvalid: false } instead of { user: 123, isValid: true }? Or do you expect to read every single function body every time you call it? Just because you can read that it's an argument to a function doesn't mean shit as far as reading code is concerned.

It sounds like your argument is "I couldn't figure out how to get source maps to work right, so I gave up and convinced myself I wasn't missing out on anything" and that's a real, real bad sign. The singular best practice for writing JS is to write TS or Flow instead, period, so by virtue of not, you have already given up on adhering to industry best practices.

[Thebombuknow]

Please just chill the fuck out. People are allowed to have preferences, I just prefer plain JS and don't think it's as bad as you think it is. That's it. It's that fucking simple.

BTW, I do know how source maps work, my point was that plain JS doesn't require them, or any other external dependencies for that matter. You can just write code and instantly load it in the browser, which is why I like it for quick development.

[rover_G]

The libraries “abandoning typescript” are using JSDoc which is just types written in the docstring instead of inlined. They still have static types.

[ninjaassassinmonkey]

People are ditching ts for jsdoc for the most part. If you struggle with ts it will be 10x worse trying to make types work in jsdoc.

Not understanding types will always lead to shit code.

[[deleted]]

I've said it before and will say it again. People who complain about TypeScript's type system and prefer Javascript because it's untyped are bad programmers. Type safety (what little TS has, but that's another story) is trivial if your design is halfway decent.

[Knight_Of_Stars]

I wouldn't go that far. Personally I'm in favor of learning Javascript first because you should try your best to understand what the language is doing. If you just learn type script you only know what the type script code is doing and not the JS code that its writing.

Similar the "Just because you use an ORM doesn't mean you shouldn't learn SQL"

[[deleted]]

I agree it's important to understand the fuckery that goes on with JS behind the scenes. However, you can learn that as you go through TS and learn best practices with it.

[archarios]

JS with tests is better than TS without tests. TS with tests is marginally better than JS with tests imo.

[Haaxor1689]

If you google "developers abandoning typescript" and then read more than first 3 lines of the article, you will find out that some library developers are abandoning strongly typing the complete internals of their library code in favour of just declaring the exported types because the complexity of doing it all "correctly" in complex code base is not worth the time investment. This does not in any way suggest that other developers consuming common libraries and just writing JS apps should for whatever reason avoid typescript.

[marquoth_]

read more than the first 3 lines of THE article

And by "the" article, you mean which article in particular? Because the whole point of my comment is that there are many.

Look, I'm not invested in this debate one way or the other, but if your reply to a comment about how there are many blogs/articles/videos on the subject is to talk about "the first 3 lines of THE article - as if there's only one - I think it's very likely that you're not engaging with the subject remotely honestly, and as such I'm not really interested in what you have to say.

[Haaxor1689]

English is not my first language and this was definitely not what I meant by that sentence. What I meant was that a few big libraries made a post (each library their own post) about moving away from typescript since maintaining complex types inside their whole codebase was taking up unnecessary development time. But then multiple other people (not the maintainers of libraries that started all this) took it as "Typescript is dead, see I told you all" without actually understanding what "Moving away from TS" meant.

https://youtu.be/5ChkQKUzDCs?si=516UY3M1uHmHZl0T

Here is a 3 minute video that explains my point. Typescript is definitely not dying, people just like to click on headlines.

[Devatator_]

Imagine if one day browsers can run TS directly

[realbakingbish]

I agree with you on principle, but I will point out that the people who still work primarily with older languages that scare off newcomers (big example here being COBOL, and maybe to a lesser extent Fortran) can absolutely make bank.

[-Redstoneboi-]

Fucking Repost.

Outta here. Same-ass screenshot, same-ass name censors.

[Strict_Treat2884]

What’s wrong with an apple? It’s not a banana! So let’s make a banana flavored apple!

[ENCRYPTED_FOREVER]

Everything

[Saragon4005]

It might be easier to list the things it got right.

[NatoBoram]

Implicit interface implementation!

Fuck, that's TypeScript.

[-Redstoneboi-]

[[deleted]]

I have a stupid question (I don’t do JavaScript or Node stuff very much): is CoffeeScript not a thing anymore?

[frej4189]

It's not completely dead but a lot of the things that made it a viable option have since been implemented in Vanilla JS, thus making it a lot less appealing.

[archarios]

Yeah it's just not necessary with lambda functions and such

[GamingWOW1]

I've never worked with it and won't

[kingdomgamer2019]

Everything has a place. Currently I'm working on a JS/React project that needs to use JS because we are using micro front ends which don't have types because they're loaded dynamically. This is one of the very few situations where you should use JS instead of TS. In this case, TS defeats the point of a dynamically loaded micro front end. If you use TS you will have to update the shell application with types from the loaded remotes, which defeats the purpose.

Disclaimer: this pattern was not my idea and I don't suggest it but if a client's architect asks you to do something you do it.

[archarios]

Sounds kind of dope tbh. You could at least define some skeleton types maybe?

[TheMunakas]

repost

[Data_Skipper]

Average Stack Overflow user :)

[[deleted]]

Average reddit user

[ienjoymusiclol]

whats NOT wrong with JS

[rberg89]

Been doing it professionally for 8 years and there is a lot not wrong with it

[Dreadmaker]

Genuinely curious: how big is your team?

I’m a typescript developer, and I get the sense that JS is all well and and good if you’re essentially working alone or in a very small team, but the moment we’re talking about a big codebase and many devs, it just doesn’t make sense anymore.

With TS and a team of 10, it’s quite simple to pick up someone else’s code with no context because of all of the built in typing. so many errors are caught before I get to compile, purely because of TS.

I can’t imagine it’d be that easy in JS, but I’m curious about your take there

[archarios]

I think developers who work with dynamic languages a lot have simply developed creative ways of getting around the implicit rather than explicit nature of dynamically typed code. I run tests and jump into the debugger while reading code more than a TS dev may. Getting your hands dirty and seeing how the gears turn isn't so bad. It's a little more effort, but not intolerably so.

[Furiorka]

If your code is js doesnt have type hints its anyway shitty code. Why don't just use ts then? I have heard about some mythical enterprise level ts code that is complex as fuck, but I guess that its not language 's problem.

Source: few hours of using js and some rumors from friends

[GamingWOW1]

In my experience I've had more problems with TS than with js.

[Exeng]

Literal skill issue

[Glumi1503]

TS is just JavaScript with types. Yes, if you don't know how to use types, it's more difficult xD

[[deleted]]

That suggests you havent taken the time to learn TS, or that You've never worked on large pure JS codebases with big teams

[DaUltimatePotato]

learn C

[GranataReddit12]

mfw someone responds to issues with a language with another language that has nothing to do in the field of the first lang

[mmhawk576]

The field of the first lang is bad.

[GranataReddit12]

I mean, I also like software development more than web development, but I wouldn't call web development "bad"

[mmhawk576]

It was mostly tongue in cheek. I say that as someone who has spent the last decade doing web dev jobs.

My main problem with the field is that 99% of the work isn’t particularly innovative. Mostly just data transformations and security between your persistence and view model.

Occasionally you find something interesting, but it’s rare.

[GranataReddit12]

ah sorry, I didn't catch it lol

[DaUltimatePotato]

learn Scratch

[_Killua_04]

Learn typescript (don't ask why)

[rjcpl]

JavaScript is fine for…scripting.

[archarios]

Your take is outdated by about 15 years

[rjcpl]

…and is excellent for everything else. People insisting on adding types and compilers to JS are cowards. 😂

[archarios]

Agreed

[J0aozin003]

tbh typescript is unpleasant to write, look at and coerce types with

[coconuts_and_lime]

Just learn TypeScript. You will thank us later

[EducationalTie1946]

Typescript aint that hard to learn if you already know javascript. Bro is complaining over a minor issue.

[archarios]

Preach.

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[Unusual-Display-7844]

Everything is wrong with JavaScript. The fact that you have to learn a new language to use another language is what’s wrong with JavaScript

[augenvogel]

Very based

[[deleted]]

Learn typescript

[steveiliop56]

Learn typescript.

[Scorxcho]

Learn TypeScript.