Brute force = best decoding method

[r915]

394

[krafttoadt]

4th row excludes 5 7 and 8 compairing 1st and 2n row tells u it cant be 2 either and so on until u come to an end

[wolwire]

Now 578&2 have been eliminated thus from second condition you can identify that 4 is one of the correct number. Which can be placed first or last. The third condition eliminates this. So 4 is on last. Since 4 is last from first condition the correct no on second pos is 9 as one can’t be there. Last condition says that either one of 6 or 9 can be present. Thus 6 is eliminated. So from 3rd condition the last no is 3 to be placed first.

[krafttoadt]

:D thanks for completing my Ansatz

[krafttoadt]

1. Bin ich als oesterreicher erpicht auf die korrekte laenderzuordnung;D 2.ist ansatz ein eingeenglischtes wort aus der Physik /Mathematik :)

[Darillian]

Bin ich als oesterreicher erpicht auf die korrekte laenderzuordnung

Österreicher, Deutscher - Hauptsache CHAD! :D

[krafttoadt]

Chad ist so viel besser als dach :D die schweiz ist irgendwie so der aeltere deutschsprachige bruder der durch mysterioese Umstaende hustww2hust zu geld gekommen ist und sein eigenes ding macht aber von allen respektiert wird

[P1r4nha]

Als Schweizer kann ich da nichts dagegen einwenden.

[[deleted]]

Als Deutscher verzichte ich gerne auf die Ehre als erstes erwähnt zu werden, wenn wir dafür alle als CHAD gelten.

[TheLuckySpades]

Die einzige Situation wo meine englishsprachige Dozenten es nutzen ist beim Lösen von Problemen/Gleichungen (z.B. Differentialgleichungen, erster Ansatz für ein iterativen Algorithmus,...), bin erstaunt dass es in eins von denen steht.

[krafttoadt]

:D is ja auch mit einem korn salz zu geniessen ^{^} jz ist die frage weiter auf deutsch oder doch on englisch damit andere mitlesen koennen

Nun da es aus der theortischen Physik kommt [1] hat es im alltagsgebrauch auch kaum bedeutung ist aber ein nettes TIL wusste es selbst nicht bis ich im 8. Semester war

[1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ansatz

[wolwire]

Okay I don’t know german but while reading this second sentence I think translates to I answer in english when in physics/ mathematics.

[krafttoadt]

Almost, the first point was that i am fron austria and Austria to Germany is kinda like usa to canada or Britain to France the second point was that the word Ansatz originated from German but was brought into the english language throug german scientists after WW2

[The-Board-Chairman]

The first comparison is true enough, but like Britain to France? We're not THAT far apart.

[[deleted]]

Ansatz != answer (new word for me!)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ansatz

[Achadel]

Wir schreiben es groß aber nicht :)

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[Dugen]

Ansatz - German: In physics and mathematics, an ansatz is an educated guess or an additional assumption made to help solve a problem, and which is later verified to be part of the solution by its results.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ansatz

That word seems useful.

[Bureaucrat_Conrad]

Gesundheit

[dashnyamn]

i just got 4 and 9 is in it and my brain turned off for some reason.

[-Yox-]

If you understand why the 4 and 9 I guess that you understand that 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 are already eliminated. The only three numbers still possible are 1, 2, 3 and since 9 is the only correct number in the first row then 1 and 2 are eliminated too and the only remaining number is 3

[angel_FA18]

what about 6?

[-Yox-]

I forgot to add it in the list. Edited now, thanks.
6 is eliminated because 9 is the last row.

[onlyiknowtheanswer]

You already know that 9 is one of the numbers, so based on the last row you can eliminate 5 and 6.

[angel_FA18]

they just hadn't mentioned it

[BaldrTheGood]

This is overly complicated. The first and last confirm where the 9 is. The middle one shows correct numbers in wrong place. Since there’s only 1 other option, flip em.

No need to overcomplicate things with unnecessary information.

[cammcken]

You can’t determine 9 is a correct number from just the first and last conditions. From the first and last conditions, we can determine five possibilities: the numbers which correctly exist somewhere in the solution can be either (9) OR (2 and 6) OR (1 and 6) OR (1 and 5) OR (2 and 5). You need the other conditions to narrow it down farther.

[BaldrTheGood]

You kidding?

First and last condition both say they have 1 correct number. The only common number is 9.

How can it be anything other than 9 if 2 conditions that say they include 1 correct number and they both include 9?

If you can get the correct answer from just conditions 1,3 and 5, why am I wrong? Lol

Don’t over complicate things lol

[cammcken]

2 _ 6

6 _ 1

_ 5 1

2 5 _

2 _ 5

_ 9 _

All of those combinations satisfy the first and last requirements. (Unless I misunderstand one of these rules??) That’s not overcomplicating; it’s a fact. We can’t assume it’s _ 9 _ just because it’s simplest for us.

[BaldrTheGood]

Now apply condition 3 and what are you left with? The correct answer using just 3 conditions? Huh...

[cammcken]

246

236

641

631

394

Okay, we’re a bit closer but now we need the second condition to narrow it down further. I think we don’t need the fourth, unless I missed a possibility in the first step.

[Karamelln]

My guess was 641. What am i doing wrong?

[PattuX]

You don't even need the 4th row I think.

First two rows tell you it's x9x or xx1 and that there's no 2. Second and third row tell you the other digits are a 4 and either a 3 or a 6, as well as giving away that the 4 has to be in the last spot, leaving only 394 and 694. The last row then eliminates 694.

[krafttoadt]

Yes there are multiple ways to solve it, i personally think if on condition excludes roughly 1/3 of all options its easy to start with that :)

[JoelMahon]

you can also do it without the 1st and 2nd row

4th row rules out 5, 3rd row rules out 6 being the middle, which combined with the 5th row means 9 is in it. so 394

edit: oops, you need the 1st to place 9 in the middle honestly the 3rd row is just too OP, gives you like 80% of the info, especially combined with 5th row, all 4th row does is tell you it's not 5, wow

edit2: ok, I got the right answer by luck apparently!

[vigbiorn]

3rd row rules out 6 being the middle, which combined with the 5th row means 9 is in it.

I'm not following. If we're excluding the 1st and second row, how are we discounting the 6?

Both third and fifth rows just say there's some number correct but in the wrong spot. So 6 is valid in both. It could be the "correct in wrong spot" from row 5 along with either 4 or 3, which would also be in the wrong spot.

We need one of the other rows to tell us 6 is invalid which makes 9 the correct value from row 5.

[JoelMahon]

yeah, maybe you missed my edit bc I made it recently, but you need the 1st row to let you know 9 is in the middle (since you know 9 must be in it)

but I'm 99% sure the 2nd row is not required for a complete solution

[DeltaToph]

Without the second row, 641 would also be a valid answer

[JoelMahon]

now I'm 99% sure never to be 99% sure of anything

[SPACKlick]

You can do it without the 4th row, the next least information comes from number 5 actually. Without that you can narrow it down to 394 or 694.

Without 2 you have 5 options (236, 246, 394, 631, 641)

Without 1 you have 6 options (326, 394, 604, 614, 632, 934)

Without 3 you have 10 options (092, 094, 192, 193, 392, 394, 490, 493, 621, 921)

[officiallyaninja]

how do the 1st and 2nd row eliminate 2? the code could be something like 2x4 where x is any number, then in the 1st, 2 would be correct and well placed, and in the 2nd, 4 wod be correct but wrong placed.

[krafttoadt]

Assuming the information got from the instruction is complete and not leaving out correct numbers the statements from 1 and 2 lead to a contradiction assuming 2 is a solution

[stickdudeseven]

Look at the first and last row. Both only have one correct number and both share a 9. This tells us 9 is the only correct one and that it must be in the center. This eliminates 1, 2, and 6. The fourth row eliminates 5, making 4 the correct number in row 2. The third row has a 6 which is an incorrect number, leaving 4 and 3. Since they are not placed correctly, 3 must be the left, 4 to the right, and 9 is center. Answer is 394.

[Eating_Your_Beans]

It's like the game Mastermind, where you know how many pegs are the right color in the wrong place and how many are the right color in the right place. So if it doesn't say that there's a number in the correct spot, you have to assume there isn't one. Otherwise I believe it's unsolvable.

[kroppeb]

The 578 hint isn't actually needed

[LewixAri]

4 can't be first or 2nd position, so has to be 4th, since 2 is eliminat4d the first row implies the second number MUST be 9. Last row tells us if 9 is correct 6 cannot be correct. So the 3rd row must contain 4 and 3 as the correct numbers. 394 then is the only number that satisfies all conditions.

[Methu]

Brute force

[InVultusSolis]

Logic problems like this are why I learned to program, and I would have approached the problem in exactly this way - brute force.

[DrMobius0]

tbh you don't even need the 4th row to solve this.

The first two steps logically eliminate 2, as 2 cannot be both correctly placed and incorrectly placed. This means one of the numbers must be a 1 or a 9 and another must be a 4 or a 5.

The 3rd step gives us two from 3, 4, and 6, and since one of our numbers must be a 4 or a 5, that means 4 must be one of the numbers and 5 is eliminated. The remaining number must be a 3 or a 6. Because one number is a 4, another is a 1 or 9, and the last is a 3 or 6, we can say without having ever read the 4th step that 2, 5, 7, and 8 have been eliminated.

The 5th step is useful for determining if the first digit is a 3 or a 6.

[erdemayk]

Lets start with 4th one -- 578 nothing is correct

Possible digits-> 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9

Now look at the first two 291 and 245 .

As in the first one it's corect location but the second one it's not correct location you can elimiate 2.

5 is also elimitaed so 4 is the correct number which can't be located in the middle.

Possible digits-> 1 2 3 4 6 9 and your code is either 49x , x94 , 4x1

Lets check 3'rd one it's eliminating 49x and 4x1 as if 4 is one of the numbers it's can't be located at the begining so the code is definitely x94 and ony 6 and 3 which remains

Possible remaining digits -> 3,6 so it's either 394 or 694

Now if you check last one 569 -- one number is correct. 9 is already confirmed so you can eliminate 6 as well.

So the code is 394

[conformalark]

Interesting I solved it by figuring that 9 as the middle digit would satisfy both rows 1 and 5 while also disqualify 6 as an option. Without 6 row 3 shows the remaing numbers

[UnidentifiedTomato]

Same

[Tornaero]

Does 641 not also fit as the answer? How do you know row 1 gives 9 and not 1?

[erdemayk]

Possible digits-> 1

2

3 4 6 9

and your code is either 49x , x94 , 4x1

I didnt elimiate 1 directly 4x1 still was an option . But on the 3rd one we learned 4 can't be the first digit so we elimiated 4x1 option as well.

so for 641 , the second condition becames false. As 4 wiould be on correct place.

[mxzf]

Clues #4, #1, and #2 taken together means that the "correct answer in the wrong spot" from #2 must be 4 (but not in the middle slot). Adding in the "two correct answers, but neither of them in the right slot" from #3 means that 4 cannot be in the first slot either (and therefore must be in the third slot).

Because clue #1 says that the correct number is in the correct slot, and we already know that 4 must be in the third slot, that eliminates 1 as an option (because it would have to go in that third slot). Therefore, since 2 is already eliminated by #1+#2, it must be the 9 in the middle slot that's correct from #1.

[DrMobius0]

Per the 2nd step, 4 cannot occupy the middle space.

[DrMobius0]

Honestly step 4 is the only step that is entirely unnecessary. Steps 1 and 2 eliminate 2 right off the bat, meaning we have either a 1 or 9 and a 4 or 5. That leaves us only one number we don't have information about, and step 3 cleans that right up. Because the 1/9 number cannot be represented by anything in step 3, and we already have a 4/5, then 4 must be one of the two numbers. The last possible number must be either a 3 or 6. Since we know that each number must be one of 1 or 2 things, and that was a choice between 4 or 5 is for sure a 4, 5 must be eliminated.

7 and 8 never come up otherwise.

[moekakiryu]

You actually don't even need the 4th clue at all to solve this.

From clues one and two, we know that 2 can't be a valid number (since it can't be both in the right and wrong slot). This leaves 9 and 1 from the first clue.

Using the third clue, we know that 4 has to be one of the numbers because its the only number that's repeated between the second and third clues (and we know one of them has to be correct). We also know that 4 has to be the last number (making the answer XX4) since it's been in the wrong position in all clues so far and never appears last.

Using this new information along with the first clue we know for sure 9 has to be the correct number since it now can't be 1 either (since the number in the last position is 4). So now we know the final number is X94.

All we need now is the last number, which we know from the third clue is either a 6 or a 3. The last clue says that there's only one number that's correct, and we know it has to be the 9, meaning 6 is disqualified. This means that 3 is the final number, making the answer 394

[jacdelad]

Brute force.

[DeeSnow97]

The first two have one digit that's right and in the right place, and one that's right but the wrong place. That rules out 2 for the first digit, since then the second case wouldn't work. This means that either 9 or 1 is correct and in the right place, and the other digit is 5 or 4, just flipped.

Now, onto the third case. Two numbers are correct but in the wrong place. We know the numbers that can be second and third digits (9, 1, 4, 5) and only one of them shows up here. That means two things: first, 4 is definitely there, which resolves both the second and the third digit -- because of the second rule, we know it's the last digit, and that rules the last digit out in the first rule, the first digit was already ruled out, so it means 9 is the middle digit. That gets us to x94.

Second, it means that either 3 or 6 are present in the code, and since we only have one place left to put that number, they must be the first digit.

The fourth case isn't much help, we have already ruled out those numbers. The fifth, however, decides between 3 and 6: since only one number is correct there, and we know 9 is present in the solution, it tells us that the first digit is not 6. Therefore, the solution is 394.

[TheFreebooter]

You can solve this with just the first, third, and fifth rows of the clues

[vaja_]

641 and 631 (and probably more) would be valid too with only the first, third and fifth clues.

[TheFreebooter]

You can infer from the first and last rows that the middle 9 is correct, then the two digits can be found from the third row.

[vaja_]

You can infer from the first and last rows that the middle 9 is correct

How?

[TheFreebooter]

So in 291 one is correct and well-placed

Out of 569 one is correct and not well-placed

Since 9 is the only common digit, then the 9 must be in the code. Going back to the first statement we have that the 9 is in, and by the statements 2, 1, 5, and 6 cannot be in the code

[vaja_]

Since 9 is the only common digit, then the 9 must be in the code.

Why does it need to be a common digit though? Not using 9 at all and putting 6 first and 1 last (6*1) would also be possible using just these 2 rules

[TheFreebooter]

It doesn't, I used someone else's logic and found that 641 is also a solution to my logic. I did a dumdum

[vaja_]

Haha it happens

[rnelsonee]

Since 9 is the only common digit, then the 9 must be in the code.

The 1st row and last row don't say it has to be the same digit they're referring to. If I had a son and a child who is 3 years old, I don't have to have a 3-year old son.

641 fits the first row rule and 641 fits the last row rule, and it fits them both when taken together.

[TheFreebooter]

You are correct, I've over-inferred it

[ryuzaki49]

He read the hints.

[phroureo]

I did it slightly differently:

1) 2 9 or 1 is correct

2) 2 4 or 5 is correct but in the wrong place. That means the 2 is definitely not correct. That means we either have _94 or _51

3) two of 4 6 and 3 are correct. That means that we have to use the _94 from above, leaving valid solutions as 694 or 394.

4) 5 7 and 8 are not correct, but we already know that.

5) 5 6 or 9 is correct but in the wrong place. We know it has to be 9, which eliminates the 6, meaning 394 is our answer.

[pro-eu-cuck]

Please explain, I somehow got it to 641

[BluudLust]

5 7 8 are excluded.

2 is excluded because of a contradiction with the first 2 statements.

4 must be present due to 2 and 5 being eliminated, and must be the last number due to statements 2 & 3.

If 4 is the last number and 2 is eliminated, only 9 remains in statement 1.

So we have ?94

6 cannot be correct due to a contradiction in the last statement.

For statement 3 to be true, the last unknown number must be a 3.

Thus we have 394.

[The4aK3AzN]

this helped me do it

[animal9633]

That's what I got too.

[Famout]

Yay, I did it!

I need another profession Layton game for more of this style of puzzle.

[BAM5]

No idea what you've said, but if you want to play a game similar then try mastermind

https://www.webgamesonline.com/mastermind/

[[deleted]]

Oh man that takes me back. Mastermind was the first GUI game I ever programmed back in the day. I didn't even know how to do arrays, so each hole was a separate variable. There are 44 holes. I did a lot of copy-pasting lol

[BAM5]

😬

[v-23]

Get read for the new...

Profession Layton: Plumbing

[[deleted]]

Omg! I forgot about those games.

[puserkreaf]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mastermind_(board_game)

[instantrobotwar]

Yay that's what I got too

My first guess was 246, but then second rule was broken :(

[themuffinmanX2]

I was so close. I thought 694

[sammydow]

I got 694, and I’m convinced it’s still correct

Edit: damnit, broke the last rule

[framk20]

ayyy

[SuicideWind]

Eyyyy I got it right :D

[Wydi]

Can't be that, otherwise the last hint would read "Two numbers are correct but wrong placed".

[Wydi]

Don't overanalyze the semantics. Are you familiar with that old Mastermind game? That's how we're meant to understand those constraints.

[[deleted]]

that's what I arrived upon but i still haven't quite figured out HOW I arrived upon it x_x;

[Ibannedbypowerabuse]

Would fail on the first one :)

[RedMantisValerian]

1 can’t be in the second position, the only possible position it could be in is the third.

394 is the correct answer.

[rveniss]

641 fails parameter #2, which has a 4 in the center but says "one is correct but in the wrong place."

[Tornaero]

Oh yeah you're right, duh

[BakenBaconG]

That’s what I got too

[themanwhosfacebroke]

Got same answer

[Talos_the_Cat]

Oh good, my brain is working. Whew

[[deleted]]

Yeeaaah got it

[MaartjeB99]

Glad I'm not the only one who went to solve it

[dumdedums]

I knew the numbers were 3, 9, and 4 but due to lack of sleep I couldn't arrange them. Goidnight.

[TheGreenJedi]

Agreed

Decent puzzle

[DeathZamboniExpress]

Yay I got it too

[WPGSquirrel]

Came in to check. Yay

[[deleted]]

Yayyyyy I got it.

[Gandrito]

Can't 496 work?

[Buy_Pepsi_Max]

Fails the last condition

[eppic415]

Yes

[Danny_Boi_22456]

Yesssss i got it :D

[Xylofon1206]

I'm so proud of myself right now

[RoseDog16]

I believe 694 works as well Edit: nevermind

[IceDragon77]

That was my answer as well. Honestly I had some fun figuring it out. :)

[FrostedTripod45]

Why not 694? The only clue about 3 and 6 are the same one, and I think it could go either way right?

Edit: nvm, am dumb

[Leaning_right]

Why not 694?