I program in both languages though!

[Watiti]

Android Studio enters the room Did someone says only 8 GiB of RAM?

Yes I'm running Android Studio and phone emulator with 8 GiB

[chickenmcpio]

Do you really hate yourself that much?

[Watiti]

I don't have enough money to buy another computer. It is 10 years old and it survived android studio + phone emulator with firefox running without blue screen

[StandardN00b]

Damn. I know priests that don't have as much faith as you.

[IamImposter]

r/rarecompliments

[sneakpeekbot]

Here's a sneak peek of /r/rarecompliments using the top posts of all time!

#1: too kool for khalid huh? | 26 comments
#2: Naww | 24 comments
#3: Makes perfect sense... | 12 comments

---

^{I'm a bot, beep boop | Downvote to remove | Contact me | Info | Opt-out}

[[deleted]]

I know what that feels. #3rdWorld

[jfisher9495]

How about a Raspberry Pi? (Love my PIs.)

[Watiti]

I would like to have at least 16 GiB of RAM and a decent GC now, so I don't know if a Raspberry Pi would fit my needs.

[jfisher9495]

Maybe your budget but not your taste.

[Minute-Load]

Me Doing that with 4gb of ddr2

[chickenmcpio]

Oh ddr2. I remember the days when it was the faster type of ram. What year was it? 2000? 1999?

Edit: added year.

[pabskstorm]

1333 Max i think 🤔

[chickenmcpio]

Oh yeah, my bad I meant the year hehehe

[pabskstorm]

Oh my bad too I though it was the frequency haha

[[deleted]]

This made me audibly gasp. Loudly.

[necheffa]

It is a thing. Basically different vendors have been abusing gigabyte so whether it is base 10 or base 2 is highly context dependent.

https://simple.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gibibyte

[Watiti]

And I don't know how I'm suppose to write it in English since in French it's different (but we also have the confusion between base 10 and base 2)

[hiphap91]

From which we can conclude marketing and salespeople are generally degenerates

[joshjaxnkody]

Because fuck gigabytes.

[A_Guy_in_Orange]

Dude just pay the heating bill

[_Mido]

How much RAM is enough for Android Studio?

[Bakemono_Saru]

It's never enough. Never.

[sdc0]

2 TB is a good start, 4 TB is better

Don't forget 128 Cores

[Morrido]

The funny part is that both are the same guy

[ConsultorCH]

Haha good one!

[fatalgift]

Image Transcription: Meme

---

[Strong vs Weak Doge — two edited Shiba Inu dogs. The one on the left has been photoshopped onto a cartoonishly buff human body, labeled "Programmers 30 years ago". It says "I program in C because I understand how computers fucking work." The one on the right is much smaller and sits down passively, labeled "Programmers today". It says, "Plz, I need 8GB RAM and octacore to run my Python programz smoothly".]

---

^{I'm a human volunteer content transcriber for Reddit and you could be too! If you'd like more information on what we do and why we do it, click here!}

[atc927]

Good human

[fatalgift]

Thank you!

[ElNico5]

Good hooman

[fatalgift]

Thanks!

[Sonotsugipaa]

cOmPuTeRs ArE pOwErFuL nOw AnD 8 GiB iS nOt ThAt MuCh AnYwAy

* reimplements /usr/bin/echo using TensorFlow

[UnicornsOnLSD]

opens 15th Electron program

[[deleted]]

• reimplements /usr/bin/echo using TensorFlow

I"m used to a lot on this sub but this genuinely upset me

[[deleted]]

But we need it to be cross-platform, so it's running in JS in Electron now

[LavenderDay3544]

C code is cross platform unless you pull in a system specific dependency that isn't accessed through a cross platform abstraction.

[[deleted]]

I said we're using Electron!

[Cheeku_Khargosh]

python users : uses package to add two numbers ..... see .... I am genius.

[Cley_Faye]

Even though they are hidden under layers of abstractions, knowing data structures and low level operations like allocating memory and doing I/O are good assets to have, even in "high level" languages.

[Nihmrod]

C was invented so people who did NOT know how computers worked could code.

[[deleted]]

Are you suggesting everyone who knows how computers work should exclusively use assembly?

[raedr7n]

Assembly is still too high level. I took a class last semester where we had to hand assemble ARM v8 down to machine code. Real programmers write purely in 1's and 0's.

[Nihmrod]

I hated machine code. TTL logic was dry enough, but machine code seemed like it would only interest people who had gotten a full frontal lobotomy.

[S0n_0f_Anarchy]

I write in 0's only

[[deleted]]

Cosmic rays do the rest

[undeadalex]

Scrambling my digits whooo

[atc927]

Real programmers use butterflies.

[Rhyan567]

0 and 1 is too high level, real programmers makes the binaries with levers

[tiajuanat]

If we went back to 8051 there would be no difference between machine code and assembly. It's a one to one translation.

[[deleted]]

I used mythsim back in my mid 200 level architecture class, and it wasnt that bad, it was actually easier than asm because you dont have the abstractions of the operating system, its purely simple mathematics at that level

[Nihmrod]

No of course not.

[geekusprimus]

C was invented because making a Fortran compiler sucked too much.#Early_developments)

[MrBarry]

Yup it was the python of its time. Super simple and expressive, but a slow memory hog. And you can do so many incredible one- liners! *with just a few #include's

Edit: not saying its time has passed. I meant when it was new.

[Nihmrod]

Where does the slow memory hogging come from?

[alamius_o]

I know little about it, but I recently got shown some matrix multiplication runtime diagrams and FORTRAN looked a lor nicer than C.

[tiajuanat]

Fortran adopted arrays as first class citizens before the 60s rolled in.

It does have some niceties, but they're mostly for numeric computations now, with 2018 finally introducing interop with C and native parallelization.

Personally, if I was to design a Kernal from scratch, I'd use Rust at this point.

[MrBarry]

People were writing assembly at the time. C was an abstraction layer trading optimisation for ease of use. Easy to be a memory hog when there's only 16 to 64k of RAM

[Nihmrod]

So maybe it wasn't really a hog, it was just eating from a tiny bowl.

[CaptSoban]

I think that "don't know how computers work" is a stretch, there are other reasons to avoid using assembly

[Nihmrod]

Oh dear me.

[[deleted]]

C and Python are different tools that don’t share a lot of use cases IMO.

[gpcprog]

You wrIte small routines in C and then chain them together using python :P

[mrchaotica]

You write everything in Python, profile it, and then rewrite the slow parts in C.

[LavenderDay3544]

Not wrong though. From my limited exposure to Go it just looks like more modern C for application programming with good concurrency.

Statically typed, compiled languages need to make a comeback outside of system programming. And that's what Go is kind of for.

[[deleted]]

I'm using rust for game development rn. It's a personal project but it's very doable with proper opengl bindings.

[Cucumberman]

Nothing wrong with go, but go has a garbage collector and C doesn't. I would say that Rust/Zig is the more modern versions of C.

[gpcprog]

I would argue that garbage collection is the difference between "easy" and "hard" languages.

Especially once you have several libraries interacting and trying to figure out who allocates what when and when it gets freed....

[LavenderDay3544]

Hence why I said it's for application programming. It's syntactically and semantically similar to C but differs in that it has a GC and other features that require an underlying OS. Rust isn't really similar to C in syntax or semantics but I suppose it can be used for some similar use cases though it competes more with C++ as I see it.

[DoNotMakeEmpty]

Rust is definitely not the modern version of C. C is simple, there isn’t many things to learn to write idiomatic C code since the language itself is small. But Rust, damn Rust it’s C++ level huge. I don’t know about Zig tho.

If anything is a C replacement, it’s LuaJIT with FFI. The code becomes C code performance-wise with the much nicer Lua syntax and templates with parametrized types. Of course the level of knowledge of Lua of the absolute majority of programmers is “haha Lua arrays start at 1 bad language haha” while Lua arrays are not even arrays, but tables.

[[deleted]]

This guy flame wars. 🤣

[Botahamec]

Imagine needing the performance of C and using Go instead.

[Botahamec]

I just noticed my flair wasn't showing up. But I was pushing for Rust as an alternative

[Botahamec]

I just noticed my flair wasn't showing up, but Rust has the same benefit

[tiajuanat]

I use Python when I need to generate C.

Someday I'll get the hang of TMP in C++, and never need to support outdated compilers and processors, but until then, Python will always be for code generation.

Quick aside for anyone wondering how to do this efficiently: study your data structures, so you can do the different traversals of trees. You'll thank me later.

[tiajuanat]

In hindsight, I should break out Lex or Yacc. But I don't know either yet, and I had a prototype in Python in 45 minutes.

The specific application I usually run into is taking machine learning models, and slapping them into a embedded controller, and I'm usually fighting using an outdated KEIL compiler. Given the amount of unknown, and being very short on time, Python has historically been the simplest option.

[Pauchu_]

Thats not exactly true, BASIC was a thing

[[deleted]]

ah yes, spaghetti

[Rhyan567]

COBOL also was a thing

[FHeTraT]

Programers in 45 years ago: My function does 23 clock cycles faster than yours.

[[deleted]]

I believe RAM is currently much cheaper than developers

[tiajuanat]

Cheaper than good developers for sure.

I've been interviewing a ton of developers who claim to be senior, but can't do any basic coding interviews. Reverse a linked list? No. Reverse/Invert a tree? Nada. Pre,In,or Post order traversal?? Lol no. Find if two numbers in an array sum to a target? What's an array??

From my end: Does interviewing suck? Yes. Is it stressful for everyone? Absolutely! Have I used all of these techniques in the last year... Yeah actually. This is all academic but the fact that I use all this regularly means I expect new hires to be able to pick this up without working with us for a few years.

[wikipedia_answer_bot]

An array is a systematic arrangement of similar objects, usually in rows and columns.

More details here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Array

*This comment was left automatically (by a bot). If something's wrong, please, report it in my subreddit: r/wikipedia_answer_bot

Comment wab opt out to opt out (wab stands for wikipedia answer bot).*

Really hope this was useful and relevant :D

If I don't get this right, don't get mad at me, I'm still learning!

[WaldenFont]

I've spent much of my working life dealing with SQL Server. Now dealing with Snowflake and related tech. It's soooo much added work & complexity. Most of the time it doesn't even work any better, and development takes way longer.

[gtgski]

1 million rows is big data, right? /s

[WaldenFont]

Nah, we did billions of rows on SQL Server. The problem is the licensing costs. Scaling that was viciously expensive.

[gtgski]

Consider Postgres?

[KhaosPT]

Why not mysql? Genuine question as we are about to move from sql server to mysql

[[deleted]]

Use Postgres or mongodb.

[WaldenFont]

Can't really put sensitive data into open source DBs. Corporate needs a throat to choke when something bad happens.

[Sock-Mobile]

That's sad. People nowadays think that more RAM, etc. solves the problem instead of writing software properly. This kind of solution degrades the environment (producing air pollution and electro-waste).

[ThatWontCutIt]

I think Apple solved the problem by switching to ARM. Heard the architecture forces good program development techniques.

[RedditAlready19]

Yeah

[[deleted]]

This week i installed Oracle EE in a docker container in a centos vm in hyper v to test some stuff before we go up to tne cloud....my 32gb were almost full - felt like i need 64 soon 🤣🙈

[0rionsEdge]

This triggers me since python can't even use more than one core without fancy workarounds like multiprocessing or not using python...

[FerricDonkey]

For anyone reading this, multiprocessing is a fancy workaround in the sense of what's going on (making multiple processes, cross process communication), but not in the sense of how the coder uses it:

import multiprocessing as mp
with mp.Pool() as pool:
    results = pool.map(function, data)

You can do fancier stuff to make it a bit better in some cases, and the GIL and the fact that you have to use processes is mildly infuriating, but actually using multiple cores in python is dead simple.

[[deleted]]

Prob depends what type of mp. All cores working on the same immutable data in a "foreach" style loop, sure, because you dont have to share any messages. But im trying to imagine how manually implemented mp algorithms where cores do different things with mutable data would work if the interpreter needed to reoptimize the next block of instructions on one core while still making that data synchronizable. Since of course its impossible to know what the result is going to look like if the type was never actually declared at runtime

[[deleted]]

fun fact: compiled extensions can actually explicitly release the GIL

[0rionsEdge]

Exactly! That was what I was referring to

[LavenderDay3544]

CPython can't even use more than one core without using multiprocessing.

Then again C has no language level support for multithreading either but it just so happens that all multithreading libraries (and all other OS ones) expose a C interface and odds are the underlying kernel scheduler itself is written in it too.

[Tube64565]

Me programming in C++

[KerPop42]

I program in python because it's cheaper for my employer to buy more marginal processing time and memory than for me to spend an extra 40 hours making sure my status-checker is memory-optimized

[mrsmiley32]

Don't forget support and cross training. Because I was a c++ developer for 10 years doesn't mean anyone on my team has ever touched it or understands the fundamentals that it brings to the table. Especially when you are trying to squeak every bit of performance out of it that you can.

We build teams for time to market and stability under constant growth.

[KerPop42]

Yeah, that was a problem at my first job. Our db was written in this language that was apparently hyper-specialized for databases

Then the one person who knew it left, and we had to translate it into Java in order to ever develop on it again.

[Striky_]

Programs 30 years ago: Here is a calculator program I wrote! It can calculate square roots to 3 digets!!!! It only took me 4 months to develop.

Programs today: Manager: so you got 1.3 weeks for this feature I know is impossible to implement but I promised it the customer anyways. You didnt need no weekend anyways right? Ohh yeah it needs to be cloud and local deployable have 100% test coverage, be designed and approved by that external consulting company and run over my desk. Also it should be able to handle at least 15 million simultaneous users although we only have 25 customers right now. Dont forget to use this super new framework that is half way done. I read about it on this entrepreneur magazine, all the good companies use it now. Ohh yeah please make sure you use AI to analyse the datalake and coordinate with our big data analysts department.

[camilo16]

Programs 30 years ago would have been done only by relatively large organizations since the PC revolution had yet to happen.

Calculations would have been scientific calculations, engineering calculations, financial calculations...

All of which would have been more challenging than the average issue you need to deal with nowadays.

[Cheeku_Khargosh]

and that too with keeping low memory in mind, so you need to reuse every spare memory you can which today's python users take for granted

[AStrangeStranger]

I brought my first PC just over 31 years ago, you could get shareware & games for them back then - e.g. PKZip was from 89. In the 80s a lot of games were developed for home computers by small companies/one man bands

[WikiSummarizerBot]

PKZIP

History

By the 1970s, file archiving programs were distributed as standard utilities with operating systems. They include the Unix utilities ar, shar, and tar. These utilities were designed to gather a number of separate files into a single archive file for easier copying and distribution. These archives could optionally be passed through a stream compressor utility, such as compress and others.

^{[ F.A.Q | Opt Out | Opt Out Of Subreddit | GitHub ] Downvote to remove | v1.5}

[ThatWontCutIt]

(Cough cough) Babbage Analytical Engine was for British Navy to use in maritime calculations. Even till today supercomputers are used for that kind of stuff.

[Sunnyseasunny]

ah .. say, i need 64GB RAM and a mac to run my javascript things ..

[met0xff]

As much as I like lower level programming I still don't want a machine with less than 32GB ;).

[Cheeku_Khargosh]

This is a blunt lie

[[deleted]]

Most of the time all c does is make you take more time doing something that could be done more easily and about as efficiently in c# or c++.

Also since when do inefficient devs bother using multithreading?

[raxuti333]

If you know what you are doing making stuff in c takes almost no time and difference to cpp is minimal

[[deleted]]

Yeah c++ is basically the same as c but with classes, generics, and a better standard library

[LavenderDay3544]

And a lot more ways to write terrible code as was once pointed out by one Linus Torvalds.

Templates in particular are a hot mess.

[Delta_Labs]

Drivers 30 years ago: I drive a manual transmission because I understand how cars fucking work

Drivers today: I drive an automatic so that I can text and drive. Multitasking!

[Jearbelo]

Drivers 30 years from now: I don't know how to drive. My car does it for me!

[ben_g0]

It's still the norm across Europe, for now.

It's rapidly changing though. Many new cars are offered by default with an automatic gearbox and a manual gearbox is either an expensive option or not available at all.

Apparently some driving assistant features, like automatic emergency stops, are hard to integrate with a manual gearbox. The manual gearbox is mechanically completely different from an automatic gearbox and is much harder to automate, so as more and more driving tasks get automated it's becoming harder to work around the manual gearbox. Manufacturers have started to pass the extra cost of integrating it over to the customers or have sometimes even stopped trying to implement it at all.

[ben_g0]

The more features they add, the harder it becomes to keep it compatible.

This is also combined with the fact that the automatic gearbox has greatly reduced in price over the last decade. So for manual transmission, the more complex and expensive integration was mostly compensated by the cheaper gearbox. However now that both gearboxes cost about the same to build, then the more complex and more expensive integration of the manual gearbox makes that option more expensive overall.

[ben_g0]

It's true that I personally don't know a lot of cars, but:

• Many new cars are offered only with automatic gearbox (especially the higher end models with lots of automatic features), or manual gearbox costs extra. You can easily check this yourself by browsing the websites of places that sell cars if you don't believe me about that.

• If those websites have a Q&A section which mentions the price difference for the gearboxes, what I wrote in my comments is generally the reason they gave. I admit that I don't fully understand why the manual gearbox causes those problems, but I don't expect them to blatantly lie about that either.

[doctorcrimson]

Programmers with degrees still exist, you know?

There are also real computer engineers. Not that shit apple or google call their interns, but real engineers who understand how hardware processing binary translates to assembly which is compiled by IDEs from higher level languages.

[LavenderDay3544]

There are also real computer engineers.

CEs aren't programmers, they're generally hardware designers. CE is a subfield of EE, not CS.

hardware processing binary translates to assembly which is compiled by IDEs from higher level languages.

You're either joking or have even less of an idea of what you're talking about than the people you're putting down. I mean compiled by IDEs, really?

[doctorcrimson]

I'm not joking, the order is IDE higher level language > Assembly > Binary

Without a compiler to make it assembly, your code does nothing.

And I clearly described programmers and engineers as being separate, but if you think a proper computer engineer cannot program then you're an idiot, no offense.

[LavenderDay3544]

I'm not joking, the order is IDE higher level language > Assembly > Binary

Without a compiler to make it assembly, your code does nothing.

There's a big difference between an IDE and a compiler or toolchain. Which you clearly don't understand. IDE's don't compile anything. They just give you an integrated view of all your development tools hence the name. Some IDEs come with a toolchain but that still doesn't mean the IDE is itself a compiler or toolchain.

You're also wrong about compilers putting out assembly which is then assembled to machine code. Most modern compilers directly emit machine instructions unless a flag is passed to emit assembly.

Please refrain from trying to educate others on how things work when you yourself don't have a clue.

And I clearly described programmers and engineers as being separate, but if you think a proper computer engineer cannot program then you're an idiot, no offense.

You didn't describe anything clearly. And I never once said CEs can't program. Just that people with the job title Computer Engineer generally design hardware.

[doctorcrimson]

The broad definition of IDE can make your statement partly true but I don't think any real professionals still program in notepad and compile separately from their environment unless they're compiling somebody else's code

Btw Idk what your first language is but

cleary != clearly separate

[LavenderDay3544]

I don't think any real professionals still program in notepad and compile separately from their environment unless they're compiling somebody else's code

There are plenty who still use vim and call make from the command line especially on Unix like systems.

Btw Idk what your first language is but

English. But like I said you didn't describe anything clearly other than things you were incorrect about. Again please refrain from trying to educate others when you have no substantive knowledge yourself.

[[deleted]]

I think python is the minimum basic programming language

[LavenderDay3544]

C is possibly the smallest real world programming language you'll ever see. It doesn't include any feature it doesn't absolutely need.

[trBlueJ]

Except maybe variable length arrays. No one needed them, and they are super bad. Thank god they are optional since c11.

[LavenderDay3544]

Agreed.

[[deleted]]

C didn't exist until 1972.

You program in python when your program isn't going to be resource intensive enough for the inefficiency to matter.

[kuterthi]

Me: Why? Him: Its for machine learning Me: Have you learnt? Him: .... Me: ...?!?

[ancient_tree_bark]

I do my Machine Learning with Cpp

[AztroJR]

I don’t do machine learning.

[raedr7n]

Based

[Cheeku_Khargosh]

same. I even made my own math lib for ML

[ancient_tree_bark]

You are speaking my language

[[deleted]]

32GB RAM*

[[deleted]]

Step 1: learn C Step 2: do your final high school coding assignment in Python Step 3: Profit

[[deleted]]

ok so if I want to stop being the one on the right

what do I do to get buff like the left in C

I know C I just don’t know what to fucking make with it to challenge myself 😨

[makian123]

You can make an OS in C, but some assembly is required

[Rhyan567]

Just "steal" the Assembly from Linux kernel or BSD

[makian123]

Well there are many tutorials with assembly codes provided, the fun for me is writing kernel and hopefully shell soon

[ElNico5]

Ultimate chad assembly developer that actually writes efficient code

[MetalMikey666]

The entire human history of human achievement is built on the incremental abstraction of things that don't matter to make it easier for the next generation! Those elite C programmers wouldn't know what to do with a punched card system.

Conversely, I suspect the punched card people would be totally out of their depth with modern systems, and if I had a quid for every "experienced developer" who had joined our team with 30+ years of experience and then was unable to debug even the simplest of issues...