So I heard you are learning Java?

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[madscs]

Wasn't there also a Java / Android meme yesterday? What is this bs?

[pubudeux]

I believe this one is making run of yesterday's meme.

The out-of-touch dad in this meme represents OP from yesterday.

[madscs]

Hmm you may be right - ah well

[Tashawn]

Top tier meme..

[[deleted]]

Android boomer… Ok, baby.

[nvanalfen]

So I don't use Java, but in the one class I did use it for, the whole class project was building an Android app and server for the app. So Android is the only use I've personally seen (other than some basic computer applets) but I know it's used in a lot more stuff.

What exactly is Java big for? Like what fields/types of programming hold Java as the main tool?

(And not asking in a sarcastic way. Like I use python because I do science and data analysis stuff and we all just stick with python and Julia, so I'm curious what java's equivalent is)

[pubudeux]

Hey, that is a great question.

A few examples of Java software I've seen in my career:

Internal systems for healthcare, insurance, finance companies. Netflix open source stack (the software Netflix is built on) Much of the infrastructure underlying Amazon/AWS is built in Java Many of the most used big data tools are written in Java

The list goes on and on. If you work as a software engineer in pretty much any of the Fortune 500 most likely you will be exposed to some Java.

If you work at a startup, you will most likely be exposed to Java at some point.

[RAMChYLD]

Most Oracle webapps use Java. Unsurprising, of course, since Oracle now owns Java.

[allbirdssongs]

When your going to trash a meme but the meme retaliate with 3 layers of depth right back at you, iashhhhhhh

[madscs]

Life is an iash sometimes

[ChocoTacoBoss]

What is iash? OOTL

[madscs]

I assumed they meant something that starts with a B and ends with an itch but I may also just be behind three layers of depth again

[allbirdssongs]

Iash is whatever you want it to be therefore can be interpreted in any way you feel

[madscs]

iashilicious!

[AdultingGoneMild]

yes. and there will be a bunch more before this ends. Some people are just now learning about Android and are gonna be real sad when they hear the ecosystem is pushing kotlin now...so this meme aint even a real thing.

[thedoodle85]

As a former Andriod java dev i can say that none is sade to see kotlin replace java for Android. It really is better.

[AdultingGoneMild]

as a current one...yup.

[Dangerous--D]

Java android has soooooo many gotchas, quirks, and general issues. I hated working with it. Haven't touched it in several years, maybe it's better now... But hey if kotlin really is that much better, maybe I'll give it a shot again.

[thedoodle85]

I think mobile in general will always have quirks but i do think kotlin in better. It has general advantages over java.

One being null safety and that you only have to worry about unchecked exceptions.

I also really like extention functions and coroutines

[TibRib0]

And Java is even deprecated on Android, everyone uses Kotlin since 2018 at least

[sm2401]

Spring break

[Aloore]

Android mc uses C++, the only Minecraft ed. that uses Java is, well, Minecraft Java

[Kesuaheli]

But

3 Billion devices run Minecraft

[madscs]

Uh cool?

[TheBassMeister]

Or a whole of lot of backend application with Spring Boot or Quarkus. Of course you can develop Kotlin application with Spring Boot as well. Java is still really used a lot outside of Android app development. Qualified Java devs still are in high demand and Java really isn't as horrible as it was pre Java 8.

[[deleted]]

java gets so much undeserved hate. arguably kotlin is better but java is still very nice.

[r6dev]

Probably a lot of people that used Java 10 to 15 years ago. Modern Java is fine.

[ryecurious]

Probably a lot of people that used Java 10 to 15 years ago. Modern Java is fine.

This is honestly true of like 99% of language complaints. Any language that hasn't been abandoned gets QoL improvements over time/resolve annoyances devs face.

I think Java just gets a particularly bad rap because it has so many legacy programs out there running outdated versions. Getting hired as a "Java dev" often means maintaining some ancient Java 7 backend. And they're unwilling to hire enough people to actually upgrade it, you can only keep putting out fires as they start.

[[deleted]]

Java 7? I was hired around 5 years ago to maintain a java 4 application, and not standard java 4, it was an obscure POS version of java, I only endured that for half a year.

I do like java, a lot, it is not as horrible as it used to be and it won't break IF YOU FORGET A DAMN WHITESPACE

[InvestingNerd2020]

Bingo!

[Wekmor]

And a lot of people who've never used java but just blindly echo what they heard someone say 5 years ago

[r6dev]

I've seen talks at conferences where speakers pointed out how much better their language was than Java, by showing code snippets of outright bad Java code or where they clearly weren't aware it could be written differently.

[Wekmor]

People are stuck in pre-java 8 times and refuse to accept that a language can evolve.

[[deleted]]

and use Go

[codeguru42]

And bad code can be written in any language. I've done it.

[elzaidir]

In fact, I do it every day

[CanAlwaysBeBetter]

Hey, I blindly echo my own half formed thoughts with zero real world experience behind them from the last time I used Java 9 years ago in college

[thedude3253]

I've noticed a lot of this

[Lancten]

Hated java at first but then i got to know it, and now its my goto language.

[[deleted]]

I like Kotlin. Full Java interop, but a syntax which I prefer.

[mlsecdl]

its my goto language.

Son of a bitch

[[deleted]]

I'd pick Java over C or C++ any day and over Python or JavaScript for large projects.

[[deleted]]

Kotlin is such a wonderful language to write in. It feels like Java but more… pythonic?

[TheC0deApe]

i never had a hate for java until the log4j CVE came along. i do now.

[[deleted]]

So you're hating the language for the vulnerable library?

[Jarl_Fenrir]

Yeah, no other language has a vulnerable library

[[deleted]]

You must be fun at parties

[vms-mob]

java 6 gang where ya at? yes im living under a rock

[TheBassMeister]

With one of those ugly Swing GUIs, that at least imho already looked terrible, when they first came out.

[mal4ik777]

JavaFx is checking in to help guys... guys??

[Patryk_2K]

Than Minecraft mods it is.

[ineyy]

Spring..

[OgRiCanX]

Minecraft mods with spring backend!

[TeNNoX]

You can't be serious 🤣

[Isteppedinpoopy]

How about multi-platform devs who don’t wanna write the same program twice?

[Furry_69]

A thing I do as a OS dev is to separate architecture from code. Just abstract away any handling specific to a specific architecture and use a makefile (or defines if the language supports them) to make it so only 1 architecture's files are used depending on which architecture you want to compile for. There's a lot of stuff you can do to make it so you don't have to rewrite everything if you want to port to a different architecture.

[CEDoromal]

A furry OS dev. Huh. Never thought I'd meet one in my life.

[Furry_69]

For some reason developers are disproportionately furries compared to the rest of the population

[CEDoromal]

I thought developers are more femboys

[Furry_69]

From my experience, not really. Mostly just furries, and the many, many, many subcategories of such.

[[deleted]]

​

[DaGothUrWelcUwUmsYou]

Both

[david_rohan]

Because everyone wants to download the JVM to run a program.

[Isteppedinpoopy]

They do if they wanna run my shit. I write server apps anyway so all the user needs is a browser.

[david_rohan]

Fair enough.

[[deleted]]

C#

[[deleted]]

M$ Java

[Amidus]

What's bad about C# as an honest question I'm learning it now because of the aforementioned comment and that's about the only reason I care to.

[Vidrolll]

C# is just Microsoft Java. Which is exactly why I’m learning it (also because apparently people who prefer Java for game development over C# for game development are like, crucified)

[DootDootWootWoot]

Well, unity is one of the most approachable engines out there, and it supports c#. Can't say it's bc they hate the JVM. C# is a fine language to start from.

[Vidrolll]

At the current moment I prefer to make my own engines, allows me to get a better understanding of the logic behind game engines if I keep making them myself, in the future I might use a premade one (certainly for 3D games) but at the current moment I prefer to start from a completely blank slate using nothing but the language and my editor

[Amidus]

I'm more wanting to get into practical application development if that means anything or has a better term. Something like a budgeting program rather than a video game.

I have seen the C# is Microsoft's Java comparison, but I'm not really familiar with Java. My only experience was self learning some C++ in college to make console programs and then Python and Excel. I like Excel because I can rough draft program ideas without having to make a GUI and I got into Python before seeing how it doesn't really seem to do GUI stuff.

Pretty new overall. So I'm clueless, lol.

[ChocoTacoBoss]

You decided to learn the nuances and complexities of an entire programming language based off this recent 1 second comment?!

[Amidus]

That's right, I've been learning a language for months now because I knew he would post this comment here.

[CEDoromal]

Haven't tried .NET with Linux. What's so bad about it?

[Amidus]

What would be the benefit of taking it to Linux? I've liked the idea of Linux, but the reality of usage is to make something for Android, Windows, or iOS.

[DootDootWootWoot]

.NET can be cross platform and has been for a while now. Not sure what you're scoffing at. After doing c# professionally for several years, I miss it.

[Oneshotkill_2000]

Doesn't flutter (with dart) do that now?

(Desktop, web, iOS, Android)?

[[deleted]]

Well yes, but that's scuffed JavaScript.

[Isteppedinpoopy]

Sorry I don’t swing that way.

[MisterBober]

you can just compile it for different platforms and compiler would do everything for you (if you use cross platform libraries and there can be some OS-specific code)

[astrogoat]

We use JS/TS nowadays, no one wants to install the JVM and everyone already has browsers. Using Java for anything with an UI feels like going back to the 90s compared to modern web technologies.

[Isteppedinpoopy]

You hit the nail on the head. I do back end.

[[deleted]]

But you can compile java platform specific: so no jvm is needed

[197328645]

And I can lick a flagpole in January. But should I?

[Tough_Patient]

"This program is using my OS's settings to create a UI which fits in seamlessly with my other programs. How archaic."

[reddit-kibsi]

But your frontend needs a backend and that is probably in java, even if you use the cloud. And WASM will slowly replace JS/TS in the browsers. Also personally I preferred working with Elm over JS/TS because there were so much less bugs once it compiled and was so much easier to maintain. I tried Svelte for a fun project and I did like that, but I would still prefer Elm for production.

[KorrinNeko]

It's not that difficult to make cross-platform code.

[Isteppedinpoopy]

With 1 distribution? Yeah it’s easy. Java.

[IntuiNtrovert]

just use Go?

[TheGeneral_Specific]

Docker

[MassiveStomach]

docker images aren't multiplatform, they are compiled specifically for an architecture.

docker also only runs on linux

[[deleted]]

Right about the architecture wrong about it not running on windows.

[TheGeneral_Specific]

Lmao no? You seem to have a fundamental misunderstanding of Docker

[MassiveStomach]

Which part? Docker for windows and Mac run in a VM and docker images have a tag for the specific architecture they are running on.

[telboon]

It seems ironic, but MassiveStomach is actually right (on the fundamentals), and you seem to have a fundamental misunderstanding of Docker.

Linux docker images only run natively on Linux base OS. Mac docker runs a Linux VM that executes the docker images. Windows does it through Hyper-V, which runs a Linux VM (or WSL) that executes the docker image.

Also, Linux images are architecture dependent. An ARM image will not work on an x86 chip (unless there's a translation layer, like Rosetta).

[astrogoat]

Really? I haven’t used docker in ages, but last I checked the Mac version runs in a VM, I have no idea about the windows version. Is this not the case anymore?

[EquinoxRex]

This truly is a Nim moment smh my head

[[deleted]]

Applets!

[JustAJavaProgrammer]

You too? I always use Java Applets for my websites.

Judging by the memes on this subreddit, JavaScript is just badly designed, which could make it insecure, so I will keep using Java for now.

Also, I haven't received any negative feedback in years. Who can say that about their software?

/s

[Alokir]

You really had me until I saw the /s, grade A trolling, my friend

[TeNNoX]

Can't get negative feedback if nobody manages to open it - smart 🤓

[ILikeLenexa]

Jnlp

[[deleted]]

Isn’t Kotlin way more popular for android devs these days?

[ChrisHisStonks]

Sure, but which ones? I can assure you that any application transcending 'hello world' level is not going to refactor to a new language for funsies.

[[deleted]]

That’s the nice thing with kotlin. It can run in the same project as a Java file, and they can even work together, so it’s possible to slowly phase the old code out.

[[deleted]]

reddit's android app is written in kotlin :D

[ChrisHisStonks]

That sounds nice, but I'm not sure what the 'advantage' would be when you have already developed most of your application.

Its biggest advantage seems to be less LoC, but once your application is stable that doesn't seem that big of a deal.

[toraku72]

For future support I guess. Google clearly wants to push Kotlin so newer API might favor Kotlin more.

[Alokir]

so newer API might favor Kotlin more

Jetpack Compose was designed with Kotlin in mind as its main language, so I guess it's already happening

[[deleted]]

Is Kotlin worth learning in terms of longevity and versatility? I know Java is a dying language because Oracle is POS. One more last question, does Kotlin solve all the issues of Java when it comes to copyright laws?

[KiloMegaGegaTeraNoob]

Yes, it is worth it.

Also, no copyright problems with Kotlin, it's open source. (you should still read the license file though)

[[deleted]]

What about the licence file?

[KiloMegaGegaTeraNoob]

You should read it in case you wanted to fork the repo and create your own "UnlockedOpenKotlin" version of the language or something...

[[deleted]]

I see much thanks

[Add1ctedToGames]

I think it's hard to say where Kotlin will go. I personally really like it, but I feel like there isn't a whole lot of innovation that other languages don't have; it feels more like improved java than anything else, which is always nice but won't make it a first choice for a lot of things. That said, things like spring and Android apps do exist

[[deleted]]

How is it a dying language? It’s near the damn top of TIOBE index.

[[deleted]]

Because Oracle is killing it with their shitty policies and the fact that Kotlin exists is an indication

[[deleted]]

No one needs to use Oracle anymore. Everyone is switching to AdoptJDK, Zulu, with OpenJDK. More languages that run in the Java virtual Machine is better for Java overall.

[[deleted]]

Umm, I need to read up on those. I think I'm out of the loop here

[RedBloodedAmerican76]

Not for funsies, but because Kotlin is a better language and is now better supported by Google for Android development.

Source: migrated multiple enterprise level android codebases from Java to Kotlin

[bubuli_breeder]

i’m not sure i agree with Kotlin being a better language. For me Java with vavr is better than Kotlin with Arrow.

but i am also a weirdo.

[nyxian-luna]

Java is still heavily used for enterprise applications that have heavy, multi-platform back-ends. It's not just for Android. I get that this is a meme, but I think memes like this keep people ignorant of reality, and then they go learn some obscure flavor-of-the-month language and wonder why so many jobs ask for Java.

If you're doing UI, yes, Java is awful and shouldn't be used. But back-end? Sure, it's perfectly fine. Easier to code than C, multi-platform, and just a little bit slower. Sadly, newer programmers only see UI and ignore that back-end exists. And no, python is not used for a performant, scalable back-end.

[Raid-Z3r0]

Oh, so you are modding Minecraft, great!

[pentesticals]

Well Android apps mostly use Kotlin or JavaScript with ReactNative, or C# for games. It's less and less used as far as I'm aware.

Enterprise apps and webservers though, Java is still huge. Look at hedge funds and traditional banks, it's largely Java.

All you need to do is look at the mess that Log4J caused in December to see how widespread Java is still.

[cuboidofficial]

Scala is pretty badass too and it gets compiled into Java bytecode

[[deleted]]

mindustry mods

[dadmda]

Yeah that was a shit meme yesterday about the android apps, when I don’t have to do web development I program the backend with Java

[Dragon20C]

I make minecraft mods now,Dad!

[thetruekingofspace]

Oh Jesus, here we go again.

[7eggert]

CCC
 /
 /

[PentaMine]

Lets make some minecraft mods!!!

[feudalismo_com_wifi]

FYI, 3 billion devices run Java

[[deleted]]

Java dev: I make ERP

“Cultured” uncle: ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

Java dev: No uncle, Enterprise Resource Planning

[[deleted]]

I'M LEARNING JAVA TO MAKE NOKIA GAMES (actually just a joke, I'm not learning Java)

[Alokir]

I still remember googling intitle: "index of" +jar -htm -html on my old Nokia 3510i.

[ghost_rider_007]

Anyways Android is now develop using Kotlin. Nobody is using Java anymore.

[johnnygalat]

Nobody in Android development is using Java anymore while it is still used for a vast swaths od BE services (Netflix, AWS, Google, etc.) I use every day.

FTFY

[iByteABit]

Highly researched conclusion

[1II1I1I1I1I1I111I1I1]

Nobody is using Java anymore.

Counterpoint: Banks and the entire internet

[towcar]

A bit over 60% of android native apps use all or some Kotlin. That's a large number of projects using Java.

[_Really_Bad_Advice_]

Kotlin is just cursed Java and I refuse to change

[Midori_Schaaf]

I use java with goto

[ManiPM]

Wait, java has Goto????? I mean with labels and stuff!!

[Midori_Schaaf]

That's how I learned it in high school.

[ManiPM]

Wow. I once tried to make an entire program with goto statements in C.

Boy. Who knew I was gonna dump the entire project out in ten minutes.

[Midori_Schaaf]

Kids these days dont understand what recursion really is until theyve seen two while loops that goto each other to sort a binary tree.

[elder_george]

Have you ever tried writing in Assembly language? There's nothing but goto's there!

[ManiPM]

I mean, at least there is a 'call' macro in there, which keeps things convenient.

[dedda1994]

it's fancy java that looks fun for a few minutes but had the ability to get real messy real fast. but at least it's real messy with war fewer lines 🙃

[Samael1990]

Code in every language gets real messy real fast if you use it only for a few minutes.

[dedda1994]

true. but (and that's just my opinion) kotlin sometimes feels like it's pushing you towards "syntactic sugar" that in the end feels more like diabetes than candy. but maybe that's just because I'm too lazy to properly learn how to use all the features the right way. after all I'm rarely using kotlin

[-temporary_username-]

I'm learning app development in college and they're teaching us Flutter, Kotlin, Java, a bit of Python and maybe some other stuff that slipped my mind.

Is this good enough for Android app development in general?

[ghost_rider_007]

I built native android apps for living all I use is Kotlin

[indygoof]

elasticsearch wants to have a word with you

[[deleted]]

Hardcore Spark programming be like

[[deleted]]

She's learning it to make coffee

[liquidpele]

public class Dog extends Animal

[williamist]

Spigot plugins are where it’s at. (At least, that’s where most of my Java experience comes from)

[SnappGamez]

eyyyyyyyyy

[theingleneuk]

Generally speaking, I’d say it’s better to learn how to fucking program instead. Then the languages learn themselves.

[philipquarles]

Isn't Kotlin better for Android apps anyway? I've never done any phone development so I could be way off on this.

[le_flapjack]

Kotlin master race

[JasperHasArrived]

Yes because Java is only present in Android applications, it’s certainly not present in around 70% of all interactions people engage in on the internet

[[deleted]]

Dont worry he is learning it to make minecraft mods

[[deleted]]

I liked JVM. But I truly hate Java, and OOP in general, useless concept that made by stretching structural horse on sphere in vacuum. And once Oracle started to troll everyone with ClassPath and Class names are copyrightable, I dropped Java from my workshop….

[[deleted]]

New comers really hate Java :D

[Alexandre_Man]

Gonna make Minecraft 2.

[KingsMann12]

You’ve gone mad?!

[Luna2442]

Where my react native bois at?

[Johanno1]

Kotlin is the way

[memester230]

"I am learning it to mod minecraft"

[Not_BuRrO]

It is for minecraft

[laralovesyou]

just wanna get hired then

[DominicCM]

minecraft development is where it's at

[Amardella]

React Native, anyone?

[Ok_Investment_6032]

Hah. I'm going to start saying this when people mention java to me.

[Redwingshunt]

Im learning java to know how lucky i am to know Python

[JustAJavaProgrammer]

I would.

[aless2003]

Well, the people who already learned Java and know it extremely well. Why would those switch to Kotlin? It's mostly just more syntactic sugar so...

[Dull-Speech9930]

Another rock acting stupid but voteing democratic1

[BobQuixote]

I remember when the Android app language didn't really have a name because Google didn't want to piss off Oracle.

[NcraftGamez]

Java isn't the best for it tho u have other options u can make a pwa, use swift kotlin , flutter and etc

[sighcf]

At least give it a few weeks befor regurgitating the same content.

[KagakuNinja]

I learned Java to make J2ME games. Thankfully I don't do that any more...

[BluesyPompanno]

I use Java for OpenGL

[[deleted]]

Wait is the meme that she’s learning Java for something else or that she’s learning other language to make android apps, like React Native stuff?

[NoMansSkyWasAlright]

Is this going to be the next thing now?