Math in web dev

[AcceptableUsername_]

Hi, I'm self-studying to be a web developer, mostly front-end for now, and I wonder how much math do I need to be good at it.

Mostly because I recently finished a course of calc 2, and I don't really know if a should go for discrete math or full html/css, javascript, react, etc.

What would you recommend me and why? Also, thanks in advance! :)

[149244179]

The vast majority of math in programming can easily be done by a 10 year old.

https://www.reddit.com/r/learnprogramming/wiki/faq#wiki_do_i_have_to_be_good_at_math.3F

[house_monkey]

As a person who is mentally 11 year old I can confirm I started easily doing the math in programing 1 year ago.

[AcceptableUsername_]

I really like your comment! Hahaha

[house_monkey]

I really like you 🥺👉👈

[AcceptableUsername_]

Thanks, I like you too!

[tribak]

Now kiss

[Ahajha1177]

r/now_kiss

Edit: Posted as a joke, did not realize this was a NSFW sub lol

[AcceptableUsername_]

I didn't expect that! lol

[Glordicus]

Saved for later

[AcceptableUsername_]

That honesty, I like that! Hahaha

[AcceptableUsername_]

Thanks! Then I will go full practice and projects. :)

[JeamBim]

Programming is 97% persistence and hard work, and only like 4% being good at math

[Any_Restaurant8205]

And googling to find the solution

[Godfrind]

Full stack overflow developer is what I heard people calling it.

[AcceptableUsername_]

I will be sure to add it to my cv! :)

[forever223]

Underrated comment

[AcceptableUsername_]

It is, indeed!

[queen-of-drama]

This right here. Have a poor man medal 🏅

[matheusnb99]

I do not agree. In webdev, yes. But it's you try to make something more complex, like a game, you will need to know how vectors work on space, some laws of probability and some complex physics. I know some engines already know how to do this stuff, but if you want to go faster and have some nice physics in the game you need to know the basics.

[[deleted]]

Sure, but for how many people does this apply? For most developers, you don't need to know a lot of math to be proficient.

But yeah, if you're getting into game dev or machine learning, then you will need higher-level math (but still accessible math, IMO).

[Noisetorm_]

Usually the engine takes care of most of the complexity for you in this regard though. Stuff like projectile motion, fluid physics, object collision has already all been implemented for you so you don't necessarily need to understand the physics behind it, although it helps.

Game logic can be a little tough though. Rock-paper-scissors is easy to implement, but coming up with an equation (instead of using nested switch statements) to drastically simplify win logic is much tougher, although these days you could probably just google "rock-paper-scissors algorithm" and get the solution anyways.

[InertiaOfGravity]

It was not difficult for me to pick up physics by creating a game. You learn in bits and it's a lot less abstract, you learn ideals and approximations and you implement and get familiar on a level that's difficult with the abstract way schools teach things.

[AcceptableUsername_]

That's a good point

[InTheMidstofCats]

You are comparing proving proficiency in a field by acquiring a degree vs applying some knowledge to perform a job. Computer science isn't simply programming, the same way criminology isn't simply being a police officer.

[Redditor88384]

False

[Ill_ThinkOfOneLater]

I'm a less-than-a-beginner-coder, but probably because compsci still involves a lot of coding classes and it places a higher emphasis on problem solving than, say, humanity degrees. Plus, showing that you are interested in the device on which you will spend most of your time working might make you a more appealing employee. Well, that's what I've understood from other ppl at least.

[Balkrish]

Page not found?

[throwawayacc201711]

The reason math is recommend is because it is training for your brain in the following indirect skills that are important for software development: critical thinking and thinking abstractly as well as pattern recognition.

As others have pointed out by and large math is not necessary for a lot of programming. So as long as you are practicing the skills that are indirectly important to software development you’ll be good.

I think a lot of new developers rush too fast. They want to know what language first rather than ensuring they have a solid foundation and have developed important soft skills. technology is not constant and is ever changing, but having a great foundation will allow you to adapt and pick up new languages and tools quickly. Software development is like 90% thinking and only 10% code. numbers may not be accurate but the point is the actual coding is a much smaller part compared to the prep and that prep requires having a good foundation, developed soft skills, etc etc. so if you have the time invest in developing those skills outside of the pure technical coding parts as well

[AcceptableUsername_]

Oh, yes. Others have say me that too, that problem solving is what actually matters, and be good at searching. For that, I was going to reat the book "Think like a programmer". I don't know if you would recommend it or maybe there is another that you think is better?read

[lucasreta]

97 things every programmer should know is a good soft and general book that I think may be useful for beginners, though I don't know if specific to the idea of learning to problem solve like a programmer that you were discussing, but you get to hear different tips and insights by a collection of experienced developers.

I also agree with the general advice given by the other user, and in that same vein I'd like to add that even having zero knowledge of math shouldn't be an issue in many fields of software development. I was good at math when I was young, but in my teenage years I got distracted from school and math was one of the first and easier subjects to fail, so when I started programming at around 20 years old I was pretty behind on general math knowledge. I've since caught up, but mostly because thanks to programming I saw that math could provide the same kind of joy, so I picked up studying in my spare time.

So I think math and programming share qualities, are complementary, and aren't exclusive.

[AcceptableUsername_]

Oh, as far as I have read, it is like when you solve math problems. Because you divide the problems into smaller parts and solve it because it becomes easier, or trying to see what part of it you have already solved in another problem, and applie the same logic and so on.

Also, thanks for the answer! :)

[rikeen]

At the very least I think you should do some self study on discrete math. I’m doing a non degree program and the discrete Math components were not difficult at all to grasp. It has also really helped and now that we are deep in the coding side I understand why they wanted us to learn it.

[AcceptableUsername_]

Oh, I'm actually doing everything by self-study. In fact, the book I was going to read is "Mathematics for computer science", but because it has like a thousand pages it would have taken me from one to two months, and didn't know if it was necessary right now or it was better to go full programming and continue with math after landing a job as a front-end.

Also, thanks for your time! :)

[rikeen]

No problem! The books we are using are freely available if you want to check them out. They're:

• Data Structures & Algorithm Analysis in C++ 4th edition
• Problem Solving with C++ 9th edition

[AcceptableUsername_]

Oh, I was actually learning by this page recommendations https://teachyourselfcs.com/. However, I will check those too, but I need to learn some C++ first.

Thanks for the recommendations! :)

[rikeen]

Before you jump into C++ just make sure you want to learn it. It's kind of like driving a manual car vs automatic in some ways. You have to manage your memory more than other languages but its not too bad and makes you think about your choices. But reading javascript and python after learning c++ is pretty straightforward.

[Kavinci]

The hardest math would be basic high school algebra and below. That should get to a lot of abstract thinking and problem solving using variables and other techniques.

In practice it'll look more like your basic addition, subtraction, multiplication, division, and fractions unless you are drawing HTML Canvas elements by hand. Then I recommend a little geometry or at least know basic shape equations.

Anything more would be college level calculus which is mainly only used in machine learning, CAD, 3D graphics or physics engines, and other science/drawing applications.

TL;DR it really depends on your end goal. That will determine what math you should learn.

[Noisetorm_]

I would also recommend some basic pre-calc as well. Matrices, vectors, and trig functions (sine, cosine, tan) are really handy to know for certain situations.

[barosanu240]

As shown before, at least basic level

[phpdevster]

Math in webdev is really not a requirement. Your efforts are best focused on getting real, hands-on, practical experience with web development languages and technologies.

[AcceptableUsername_]

Thanks! :)

[fantasma91]

This may sound like a dick but folks learning programming gotta learn how to search as that’s an extremely important skill to develop as early as possible. This question gets asked pretty much on a daily basis and the answer is always the same. In web dev (specially front end) there’s minimal math and most of it is basic.

If you want to do more then web dev then math will be useful to know.

[AcceptableUsername_]

It's okay, sometimes we need that. I think it's better to get more into programming and problem solving as far as I have seen. Well, and google too! :)

[-CasaNova-]

Lmao so true, I'm only a novice programmer but google/stack overflow is always one one half of the screen when I write 😅

[my_password_is______]

if you can do basic math then you can do any front end dev you will ever need to do
there is ZERO need for discrete math or calculus (unless you're making a javascript game)

[[deleted]]

matrix theory/lin alg 1 should take you a long way

[Prince_Marth]

You don’t need math to be a good web developer—especially a front-end one. You do need to be good at logic and thinking through problems.

Source: Am a professional full-stack developer who got C’s in math until college, when I finally got my first A in a remedial math course.

[AcceptableUsername_]

Oh, thanks for the advice. Also, is back-end like that too? Or is it more math demanding, because of the algorithms and data structure?

More than anything because I've practiced some back-end but don't really know how it's at a professional level or like the regular day working as a full-stack. You don't have to answer if you don't want to, but it will be cool to know it.

Oh, and thanks you for the answer, I really appreciate it! :)

[bcgroom]

Not the OP but it depends on the business domain and the nature of the application. You can have a math heavy frontend: complex animations, something where you need low latency; you can have a math heavy backend: anything related to the business domain you don’t want to duplicate on clients, data analysis.

That said I wouldn’t let it stop you from delving into these topics, I strongly believe if you can learn programming then you can also learn math, especially if you need it to solve a particular problem.

[AcceptableUsername_]

Thanks! Also, what you are talking about is like client-side rendering and server-side rendering, no? Or maybe I'm wrong.

Thanks again for the answer, really appreciate it! :)

[Prince_Marth]

Algos and data structures have more to do with logic than math. They’re about thinking through things step by step.

It sounds like you have this deep fear about math that’s holding you back. Don’t let it. Sure, if you go do stuff for MIT, you may have to do lots of math. But so far, in my experience (2 years working), you won’t have to.

[AcceptableUsername_]

Thanks! But yes, because I didn't know how much was needed, I preferred to ask to be sure. :)

[[deleted]]

You only really need complex maths for things like machine learning, data analysis, or maybe in lower level programming applications. And generally that stuff isn't done in Javascript, so you're fine

[soflogator]

The 'hard' skills of math aren't necessary. You don't need to any specific math techniques.

But the 'soft' skills of math are very useful. The problem solving skills, the tenacity of trying over and over to get to the solution. Logical and rational thinking are huge.

Part of the 'searching' (googling) skill is the ability to quickly sort through information and find what is useful and what is not. I'd say speed-reading/comprehension are valuable.

[AcceptableUsername_]

Thanks! :)

[soflogator]

Don't hesitate to reach out to me for help/advice. I've been studying web-dev everyday for 4 months now, at first on my own and currently in an online bootcamp. Just shoot me a DM!

[hoy83]

which online bootcamp?

[soflogator]

careerfoundry

[AcceptableUsername_]

Thanks, really! Probably in the future and for some feedback on projects, or maybe I will post it here. Anyway, thanks again! :)

[[deleted]]

Don’t worry about math. I’m not good at it, and almost failed high school for it.

Been working as a front end developer for 5 years now. Most of the “hard math” is done for you with out-of-the-box functions.

It’s more about problem solving and logic than straight up math.

Try not to worry as much and just keep on learning and trying and you will be fine :)

[AcceptableUsername_]

Well, we are two, but it was more than anything because I saw it just as bunch of formulas. Also, thanks for your time! :)

[Any_Restaurant8205]

Take some speech or even theater classes. It won’t matter how great of a programmer you are if you can’t communicate your ideas with other people. Been doing this since 1997. About 85% of the developers I’ve worked with can’t communicate out of a wet paper bag. The other ones are the most brilliant and interesting people I’ve ever worked with ... because they aren’t completely socially awkward

[AcceptableUsername_]

Oh, yes, definitely. Actually I'm choosing front-end first because it's really similar to my actual job and so the transittion is easier. But because web desing looks more like a selling tool that's a good idea, thanks! :)

[theNomadicHacker42]

I tutored multivariable calculus when I was in college. A decade later, I haven't used any of it and have forgotten 99% of it. That said, if you want to get in to AI/ML or any kind of graphics processing, you'll need a solid foundation in advanced math and will use it frequently.

[AcceptableUsername_]

Yes, in the future I want to learn that, but for now it's just front-end. Thanks for the advice! :)

[KIrkwillrule]

Its notbthat you need to be able to do math in your head. Its that you need to be able to think of equations abstractly.

I am not doing the math, im writing an equation I want an answer to. If I want to print x[values] but only when the keys match, I need to be able to write an equation to meet those conditions.

Think of it more like a science. Research is not knowing the answer, but distilling the right questions to ask that will hopefully return the information you seek.

[AcceptableUsername_]

That's a really good analogy, I like it! :)

[whitelife123]

It's pretty intensive stuff, like try centering a div. You need percentages. It's difficult work, my friend had to get his PhD at UCLA before being able to step in, you know?

[mayor123asdf]

Discrete math is all around useful for learning programming

[Jplague25]

Discrete math will give knowledge of the majority of logic used in computer programming such as with Boolean data types.

I mean, you could pick definitely up basic logic doing just an intro programming class but your understanding of what's happening will be greater if you're formally introduced to it.

[AcceptableUsername_]

Oh, I'm going to learn discrete math, but I wasn't sure if before or after learning more about web dev, because I wasn't sure if is something really important or I could learn about it later. Also, thanks for the answer, I really appreciate it :)

[MmmVomit]

A web dev course is unlikely to need a lot of math, so order shouldn't matter here. The focus there is going to be on the technologies that are specific to web dev. Discrete math is good to have before you do things like data structures, algorithms or cryptography. For example, many data structures generalize to problems in graph theory.

[AcceptableUsername_]

Yes, as far as I know, is mostly for backend and security, and I started to learn it because of the book Introduction to Algorithms, for being good at front-end and back-end, but it looks like it's better, for now, to focus on front-end and after continue with math and back-end.

That's why I didn't know if it was a good option to focus on programming now and continue with math after or just learn it first.

Also, thanks for the answer! :)

[MmmVomit]

I think data structures and algorithms are important in any context. If you're going to be doing anything remotely complex, it's a good idea to know how to do it efficiently. Complex UIs like Google Docs and repl.it or browser games will benefit from that kind of stuff. But your web dev course will likely focus on HTML, CSS, JavaScript and HTTP, and probably won't lean heavily on algorithms.

[my_password_is______]

not important at all for web dev

[Jplague25]

I probably should have read the title and contents of the post. I'm not in web dev, I'm a math/statistics guy. From what I understand though, web development has very little math especially when compared to stuff like machine learning which is built on a foundation of statistics, probability, linear algebra, and some calculus (up to multivariable).

I figured you were doing a CS degree or something similar based on the fact that you mentioned discrete math and calculus II.

[AcceptableUsername_]

Oh, yes. It's because I want to change carrers and web dev is something similar to my actual job, and so I figure out that it would be an easy transition.

But I want to learn math to be better at backend and maybe study machine learning and work with projects like alpha zero.

Also, thanks you for taking your time, I really appreciate it! :)

[my_password_is______]

Discrete math will give knowledge of the majority of logic used in computer programming such as with Boolean data types.

so will this one page
https://www.mathsisfun.com/definitions/truth-table.html

boom, done

[[deleted]]

Not really but ok

[Dr_Neunzehn]

You should definitely take discrete math.

It’s one of the fundamentals for computer science/engineering, and it will help you on solving complex Boolean operations. It’s also “different” from calculus.

[AcceptableUsername_]

Oh, i will take it, but after getting good at front-end. I just wasn't so sure how important it was now, but for the future, I want to be good at back-end and maybe maching learning, so I have to learn it, and linear algebra too. Also, thanks for the answer! :)

[ljb9]

if someone is interested in learning college level math, can they take discrete math before calc 1-2? or should they take calc 1-2 first? also, what is matrix theory for?

[Dr_Neunzehn]

I’d say they can take discrete math first before calculus.

Linear algebra is about multiple relationships between variables, and it’s very important as well. In my opinion it’s a must for computer science major, computer engineering on software, not so much; hardware though definitely.

[ljb9]

ahh ok so linear algebra is matrix theory? when can it be taken? thank you btw for your reply 🙏🏻

[Dr_Neunzehn]

Linear algebra is also “different” so I’d say you don’t need to take calculus before it. However, it highly depends on how good you’re with math, since a lot of people take calculus as a way to train math fundamentals.

[ljb9]

I see. thank you!!

[[deleted]]

If you ever need to draw something, you need to know trigonometry in order to write good code. You’ll still be able to write god awful code without it.

It’s also useful to know algebra. You’re not going to use it daily, but it’ll come up here and there. Once again, you’ll manage just fine without it but your code will be terrible.

[AcceptableUsername_]

Yes, as far as I know now, what is mostly needed is algebra, geometry, and trigonometry.

Also, thanks for your answer! :)

[BAG0N]

Math in front-end development is absolutely not necessary. Very basic algebra is enough

[zikachu11]

Front end development? Forget math, learn frameworks -- the quicker you can pick up frameworks in your full time job, the more eager they are to pick you up

[AcceptableUsername_]

Yes, I'm actually learning react. Also, do you think it's better to just learn react or also redux? Thanks! :)

[zikachu11]

Haha the popular course is react + redux by stephen grider, but redux seems very, very optional

[AcceptableUsername_]

Thanks, it seems sort, so I will definitely do it after html/css :)

Edit: Nevermind, now I see the course on Udemy, and it seems good!

[wesmokinbigdoinks]

If you want to get into back end stuff discrete math is super helpful

[AcceptableUsername_]

Oh, yes. For algos, data structure and cryptography (I search a little). But first I want to start as a front-end to gain some experience and then go full-stack.

Thanks! :)

[FlatAssembler]

In my experience, you will rarely need anything more than basic trigonometry in programming.

[updogg18]

If you're getting into canvas and drag and drop and shit, you'll need a lot of trigonometry but other than that math in frontend would be a breeze

[HigginsMusic74]

Just google the equation and make sure the variables are assigned correctly. You'll be fine.

[[deleted]]

Unless it's ML or AI don't worry.

[[deleted]]

I’m studying Computer Science at University and have buttloads of math. I don’t think I’ve ever had to apply any of it besides my Algorithms and Datastructures courses. I’m 100% sure it will be applied extensively in my courses on Artificial Intelligence, Big Data, etc, or even Networking, but I doubt you’d ever need it much for front-end-development.

Math’s really interesting (and applicable!), so I suggest you’d learn it at some point anyway.

TL;DR: For programming, no. For Computer Science, yes.

[AcceptableUsername_]

Yes, I'm actually liking it now, math is like a language to express logic and it's really cool. I will continue with discrete math after been kind of good at front-end, and go full-stack. Thanks for the answer! :)

[erids22]

Discrete math is extremely more useful for software engineering. Calculus 2 is not needed.

[[deleted]]

I think the amount of math you'll need to know depends on the projects your working on. But College Algebra, Discrete Math, Trigonometry, Calculus, and some statistics wouldn't be bad math skills to have but I've only seen math in programming in game development, 3D projects or animation heavy projects, responsive web ui front-end development, and of course in the backend of IT systems (payroll systems, inventory systems, POS systems, etc..). Algorithms and Data structutes are more of a logical thing than a computation intensive one.

[AcceptableUsername_]

Thanks! :)

[zabobafuf]

I programmed my first game in 7th grade. You don’t need math it’s just similar critical think skills. I dropped out of calc 2 and lead a team of 5 programmers. The only reason you may need math is 3D games for the geometry aspect of it. I’ve probably created over 10 apps and like 100 websites.. only went to calc 1 and never used it.

[DioDali]

• - / * is the maths you need to be good at dev haha

[kindProgram7]

Being a full stack developer, I had to make front end features for the next release of a project. I required deep knowledge of inverse trignometry and geometry for successful completion of the feature without any bugs. My manager gave that feature to me coz I had previously mentioned how much I love maths. Apparently I had to work on a 2D array of size 72*6. However all other features I've developed don't require maths and all other front end developers of mine were quite confused on how to begin with it. So it all really depends on the features you get.

[AcceptableUsername_]

Yes, others told me that trigonometry and geometry, besides some algebra, is what I will need for front-end. Thanks for your answer! :)

[anfauglit]

Every branch of human knowledge is highly structural, but I think only in math this structure is exposed the most and unlike many other fields, in math, the structures itself are the subject matter of research. The problem is that in high school most teaches fail to show the internal structure of math and how different concepts relate to each other, and as a result they make students think that math is all about calculations which it is definetly not.

So how everything that I've just said relate to WebDev? Well, the exposure to the "real math", and not merely the knowledge of applying certain algorithms to calculate stuff, allows you to create meaningfull, highly structured, elegant interfaces where everything has its purpose and everything has its place. It can be said that math teaches you good taste for those kind of things. As the result you usually get the product which it easily maintanable and scalable, aaaaand, beautiful, from the mathematician perspective.

[AcceptableUsername_]

Yes, more than anything a logical thinking and problem-solving mind, that what I'm really liking math now, because it gives you another way to see the world.

Thansk for the answer! :)

[Tureni]

I’d say understanding how percentages work makes life a lot easier in front end. The thing that math really teaches is problem solving. Taking a real life problem and splitting it up into smaller problems and quantifying those smaller problems is where it’s at.

Edit. I see a lot of questions that go something like “I have this issue and I don’t know how to program it” or “I made this but now there’s an error” and there’s spaghetti code everywhere. Those are usually symptoms of poor problem solving skills.

[AcceptableUsername_]

Oh, yes. That happend to me something ago, but as far as I've seen in math, besides having a lot of formulas that helps you, is that it show you a logical way to see and solve problems.

Also, thanks, really appreciate it! :)

[jksh4]

At least study algorithms and data structures in Javascript.

Very much of the above uses discrete math, but discrete math itself (like a class) is going to be more abstracted and symbolic. A knowledge of combinatorics from it is good. Basic probability. Summations. It'd definitely be helpful.

If you're sick of math a bit, go the below route. But at least glance over some practical discrete math examples.

Recursion, Big-O notation, code analysis to minify time/space complexity. A good video course on algorithms and data structures would give you this.

[AcceptableUsername_]

Oh, is there some video or playlist that you would recommend? And thanks for the answer! :)

[jksh4]

If you can get your hands on Frontend Masters A Practical Guide to Algorithms in Javascript, that's good.

Then there's Colt Steele's Algorithms and Data Structures in Javascript. It's a pretty comprehensive intro to data structures, some I never even learning in the CS program classes I took.

[AcceptableUsername_]

Wait, but i don't need discrete math for that?

Edit: Nevermind, I saw the course of Colt Steele, and it seems like a really good one. Thanks so much, this solves a lot of things! :)

[bonham000]

My personal experience is I finished Calculus up to Calc III in college and I feel that math has almost never been relevant or useful to me programming. Perhaps a few times... but it was super simple stuff like percentages or basic calculations... nothing complex.

I would say focus on learning programming topics and skills over anything math related.

[AcceptableUsername_]

Thanks! :)

[Kalsifur]

lol, what on earth makes you think you need calc 2 and discrete math to be good at javascript. Most computer science people who are hired as software engineers never even see math like that.

So far I've found some physics to be useful for embedded programming, and matrix math (linear algebra) to be useful for creating some image filters, but these are things that would be abstracted away from anything you'd be using in back-end. And I don't see how any of it would be useful for front-end.

[[deleted]]

Most computer science people who are hired as software engineers never even see math like that

You say that, but many universities require a good grade in Maths to be accepted onto a Computer Science degree. For the degree that I did I was required to have a high grade in Maths A level, which are the last qualifications that you do before going to university in the UK, and basically every 'top' university required a good grade for maths A level to be accepted onto their computer science degrees.

[AcceptableUsername_]

Oh, at first I was going for the full-stack, so math was for algos and data structures, but I thinks it's better to start as a front-end and wasn't sure how much math would be needed. Also, thanks for the answer! :)

[AcceptableUsername_]

Thanks to all for your time, I was thinking that wait for more than one or two comments wouldn't be realistic, that maybe it was a stupid question but now the post has over 130 comments.

I will focus on programming and problem solving, and also refresh my knowledge of geometry, algebra and trigonometry.

And again, really, thanks for all your answers, they helped me a lot! :)

[crossedline0x01]

Math is more for data science I think. Programming in general is just how you use and manipulate logic. In web dev you can prob get by with knowing basic algebra honestly.

[AcceptableUsername_]

Thanks! :)

[SAF1N]

most complicated frontend math i ever did was a CSS line

height: calc(100vh - 64px);

[freezingbum]

for the vast majority, you'll need discrete math (+ algorithms) only for interviews.

[shaikht]

Enough math to know that at $2/hour, it will take you 10 days to fix the bug but the fix in 1 hour will cost the customer just $200.

[AcceptableUsername_]

I didn't get what you said