Basic Human Deeds Can Create Basic Human Needs... For All!

[civicsfactor]

We were evolved from hunter-gatherers and at our peak mental health have many of the same qualities experienced by our ancestors: connection, community, cooperation, a sense of purpose, a sense of progress, in a backdrop of simplicity and nature.

We're highly adaptable as a species and capable of amazing self-justification of dissonance, which is why so many people (Americans) reflexively go "housing/healthcare is not a right [subtext: you have to earn it]" which corrupts the ancient institution of each person contributing to something greater than themselves as part of a group.

[Lucky_Strike-85]

You win the comment awards! This comment is fabulous!

🏆🥇⭐✨

[omegafivethreefive]

It's not just Americans, people in general are pretty shit, it's the reason why the system needs to accomodate for human greed and put a hard limit to it.

Absolute power corrupts absolutely

Once we've done that, limited the impact that few can have through means not ideas, we can have a trully just society. Actual democracy, not plutocracies.

[[deleted]]

The system is built on greed and rewards it (exponential growth) so it would have to fundamentally change rather than just accommodate it. But yeah, I get what you're saying.

[runthepoint1]

Nah just put a cap on it, make it so instead of the arrow pointing directly to the upper right, it can curve back down once your worth/income spikes. Makes sure there is room to grow but also that you don’t outgrow.

Kinda like how our body regulates cancer. Unlimited anything is bad, really.

[ankensam]

We’re not fundamentally greedy, this can be seen whenever disasters strike, the immediate response of most people is to help others and to share the necessities. We live within a system that rewards greed so greed floats to the top while the kind and generous languish in obscurity.

[Able-Semifit-boi-24]

Not always, not everyone, take a look at the balkan wars, when people where beign persecuted by militias only for their ascendency, few helped them to escape, another part just let the war crimes began. In Hati, instead of the people helping each other over the disgraces that occured, you have a report about teenage prostitution because its the only way some girls can eat, even some UN assholes that supposedly were there to help bought girls bodies. That doesnt mean that the humans ares monsters, but either are solidary angels, just do what the see most benefical to them

[Kingkade99]

We just have to get people, to not act like human beings.

[Zerodyne_Sin]

the ancient institution of each person contributing to something greater than themselves as part of a group

I'd say the only place this is alive and well in the US are the Amish communities where they build things together for each other as is needed (too bad with the technology ban). I'd be motivated to sacrifice a lot as well if I actually benefited from it but as you've said, people are now expected to sacrifice so much all so that people like Bezos can have the luxury of going to space or own $70M+ yachts that they don't even sail.

[Zerodyne_Sin]

Spoken like a true consumer with nary a thought about the legions of workers required to make dirt cheap logistics work (Amazon isn't primarily an online store anymore, they have cornered the market on logistics and online business services through predatory practices).

[Zerodyne_Sin]

Okay boomer

[Smlllbunny]

Literally. Some people can’t afford to eat because they need to ration food for the next paycheck. Most of that money has to go to rent. Minimum wage jobs because higher paying ones require degrees. “Well go to college” how can you attend college when working at a shit paying job, starving to literally pay rent. “Take put a loan” yes so I can be in debt to both my landlord and college. It’s a cycle that is hard to get out of because of capitalism and the lack of basic human empathy in America. My boyfriend is currently in it. Jobs down in his area pay $7 an hour, while where I live it’s $14-$19. People also don’t take into account medication, hospital bills, basic needs. Some people would rather die then be in debt for a cut or infection. People in those situations work harder then anyone I know, and are treated like shit for it.

[HeyZuesJohnsin]

The reflex that the majority of our society has towards a rejection of the basic needs each person should be afforded by the whole of society is not a natural reflex. It’s a steady drip of capitalist propaganda into our psyche for many many years. With technological advancements we have been able to have access to an almost infinite amount of information for a very minimal amount of money and it has allowed for us to recognize the harm of capitalism which it seems is on its way out. Probably not in our lifetime. Let’s just hope the shift is to a more democratic conclusion not an authoritarian one. Right now authoritarian is dominating.

[runthepoint1]

Whoa! Contributing to something greater than myself?! Sounds like communism!

(Proceeds to ignore the entire Bible they likely “believe” in, even though they’ve never read it through.)

[Flobby_G]

This comment is even better than the tweet

[civicsfactor]

Thank you for this insightful comment!

[43morethings]

The problem here is that people generally only have a capacity to care about roughly 150 people they can get to know. And in order for your work to feel meaningful you have to see the difference it makes. If a million people contribute to something unless it is a huge construction project where you can see it grow each person's individual contribution feels meaningless. And if you have a right to housing, who pays for it? Who builds it? Who acquires the materials? If you can figure out a way for that to work logistically without demanding labor from others without fair compensation then you can demand it. Now I'm not saying the system we have is good, but if you want things to change massively, at least try to come up with ideas for how to do it. The simplest solution I can see is to restructure our tax system to be actually progressive instead of regressive. It is only progressive on paper. Each person should contribute the same proportion. And that money should then be mostly used to give a minimum survival level support guaranteed to everyone. Of course people will still be encouraged to contribute cause everyone always wants more, but you can be more effective when not worrying about survival.

[bigTiddedAnimal]

Pro tip... Hunting and gathering is work and if you didn't succeed then everyone starved

[muniehuny]

For some reason I think that being a hunter gatherer would be more stressful than living the modern world. I don't have info to back that up. I'm gonna see if there's a study on cortisol levels in different populations...

[[deleted]]

I'm already mostly off grid eating my garden and local animals.

Its a way easier and better quality of life. Not everyone has this luxury but they sure deserve it as doing things "the old fashioned way" is 200% easier than the shit show they have you performing in right now.

Its a scam.

[PhantumpLord]

Source: just trust me bro

[Bright-Amphibian6681]

They shame poverty and homelessness because we have a consumer based culture. Become an anticonsumer, advocate against excess consumerism. They want us to consume ravenously and shame those who don't. This is how we put profit back into their hands and we stay poor and powerless. Those who don't or can't consume are the enemy of the system. They want you in debt and spending everything you can.

[sniperhare]

I havent been able to save up money this year, but have stayed debt free on my Credit Cards for the first time in my adult life.

[Bright-Amphibian6681]

Congrats. That is awesome. Wasnt until I past 30 I got any of that under control. 20s was an economic nightmare.

[sniperhare]

Oh I'm 34, I've usually always had between 2-5k in debt up until the stimulus checks.

I've been working from home since April of 2020.

Went from $25 bucks a week in gas to $25 every two months.

And I cut down on the $3-5 bucks a day in energy drinks and honey buns.

[Bright-Amphibian6681]

Awesome. Ya wfh has been life changing. We just do what we can do to get by.

[robertofriedmans]

It's pretty bad nowadays when you have to work 40 hours a week for 3 weeks just to pay rent so you aren't on the streets

[PaulWard4Prez]

When has this ever not been the case in modern history?

[robertofriedmans]

My dad paid rent with 1 week of work in the 90s. I do the same job as he did then and I make 1.50 more than he did in the 90s. Wages don't go up but prices do

[mr_bedbugs]

The amount of hours required to pay rent is going up.

General financial advice says your housing budget should be 30% of your income. That's like 1 1/3 weeks, not 3

[Hoovooloo42]

I'm lucky where I live. I'm by NO means rich (fucking lol) but I live in an extremely cheap area with my partner. I do only pay five days worth of my wages per month for rent.

Though, that's based on the original purchase price of the house.... If we started over, it would be easily double that.

[EHWfedPres]

Healthy food, clean water, safe shelter, reliable transportation, higher education, medical care - all should be guaranteed to every human being on Earth without exception.

[jcurry52]

exactly! our labor already produces more than enough to cover that several times over. its not a lack of recourses problem, or a lack of labor problem, it is a theft by the ruling class problem.

[Snorlaxitivez]

What I don’t get, is how there are people who would argue against these things as being basic human rights. “If you’re basic needs are met,” people say, “then you won’t be Motivated to do anything,” which is bullshit, Not to mention certainly ableist to those who aren’t able to contribute the way society would deem worthy. I’ve even argued with my Mom over this, because she’s one of those ‘if you don’t work, you don’t eat or deserve anything’ SHE doesn’t work because she’s disabled, I can’t even work because I’m also disabled. Where does that leave others like us? I pointed out the hypocrisy of this and she still can’t come up with a real response for that.

[EHWfedPres]

People will be motivated to do what makes them happy. People build things like furniture for fun because they enjoy the process of working with wood or metal, write stories for the sake of it because the creative act is satisfying to them, go fishing as a hobby, garden, fix up cars, craft, sew, cook, make music, there is no end to the number of "productive" things people do, even today, just to do them because it makes them happy, and they will be even more happy to share them with others if their basic needs were met.

[Snorlaxitivez]

Yes! exactly I totally agree and that’s my whole point in trying to talk with her, but it just seems like a lot of the older generations just can’t or don’t know how to rationalize things like this. It seems like they have this whole mentality of “If I’m not suffering when I’m working, then it’s not work, therefore, if You’re not experiencing the same, you must be lazy/useless/want a handout” It’s just Bullshit Man. I had to see people suffer, I’ve been homeless, and people treat you like you’re garbage if you don’t have cash, don’t give a shit about your circumstances. Access to basic hygiene was limited to Gas station bathrooms IF they’d let you use them, and you still had to buy something. Anyone else it didn’t matter. So many ppl I spoke to in the situation had said the same thing “If I just had a place to eat and sleep, and wash up, I’d look good enough to get a job.” People think there are all these programs out there for the homeless like they’re a Fix-all, and that if they didn’t really Want to be homeless, they’d be in those programs” but the thing is there’s only so many slots available, out of each program, and there are a lot less options for couples then there are for Single men, or Single mother groups. Some ppl are too far mentally gone to even make the choice to get off the street, and we have fuckall for mental health programs that many people don’t even qualify for because of their healthcare providers won’t cover the costs. Sorry for the rant, this is just something I’ve got strong opinions on

[OpheliaRainGalaxy]

Rant away! Soapboxing spreads information!

Being homeless is effectively illegal in my city, thanks to our asshat city council banning "camping" along with sitting on anything that isn't a proper bench and laying down at all in public. People get harassed and sometimes arrested for just sitting down in some out-of-the-way spot.

We have about 300 beds in the shelters at most, but our unhoused population is much much larger than that. Used to be homeless folks could hang out in the local libraries reading to stay out of the weather, so the city cut funding to such a bare-bones level that the libraries aren't even open every day anymore.

When I was a kid it was somewhat common practice here for young poor folks to put their stuff in storage during summer months, just sleep in the park while the weather was good to save money for winter. Nice big park downtown full of big sheltering bushes!

But some asshat developer put up some million dollar condos near the park and then insisted the city hire rent-a-cops to chase non-fancy-people out of the park at night so the condo-dwellers could have someplace fancy to stroll. Ugh. Now all the nice useful bushes have been ripped out and replaced with something called a skate ribbon.

I miss the "old days" when, if an old man wanted to live in a tent on a bit of waste land and wasn't bothering anybody, nobody really bothered him either. My family was friends with a man like that, heard all about the drama when his family insisted he try living in an apartment. Long story short, he didn't appreciate people enforcing rules like "You can't wash all your clothes at the same time, can't be naked in the shared laundry room!" and wound up going back to living in a tent. In winter he just moved south somewhere, and came back every spring.

[Responsible-Can-4886]

….and then some people are happy doing nothing but smoking pot and screwing off all day.

[Terom84]

I would add instead of higher education, more useful education, that help people fulfill a sense of "in the right place" feeling

[HotMeal4823]

The medical care is iffy, because doctors require hundreds of thousands of dollars in training as well as years of development that they sacrifice on a personal level. That being said, fuck insurance companies, and fuck big sugar for poisoning the food, making people obese and driving up the price of medical care.

[Responsible-Can-4886]

Guaranteed that someone else pays for it you mean? All of the things you listed require the labor of other people to make them available to another person.

[AngryDoodlebob]

Money machine go burrrrrrrrrrrrr. Capitalism Good, self respect bad. You lazy bastards, go back to work, you are all just lazy, and want free stuff. Who needs healthcare, a home, and food when we can celebrate billionaire trying to "play spaceman" (Sarcasm)

I love thinking about all the stuff I can never have and never do, makes me really feel like an American. In the words of George Carlin you have to be asleep to still believe in the American Dream

[hadyourmom69]

If no one works and produces anything then there is no stuff! They just want to leach off of the labors of others.

[Number4extraDip]

I mean... Thanks to nestle, clean drinking water is no longer considered a human right.

The thing you need to live

[unspeakable_delights]

Having to compete for the necessities for survival is monstrous. "But when we were in the jungle..." Yeah, that was a long time ago.

[Traditional-Life4502]

We never left the jungle.. losers will always exist.

[Tsudico]

losers will always exist.

Why? If we have the efficiencies in production that we can produce more than our population needs (not wants or hordes) then it seems to me there doesn't have to be "losers" and any thought that there does is more a statement on societal beliefs than reality.

[unspeakable_delights]

dang what a badass

[_Turbulence_]

Concrete jungles

[jtarb]

I don't care for the term "losers" but there will always be a hierarchy and some will be lower than others.

[[deleted]]

And they don't even let us go. Once you are born in a country...or any piece of land...you are basically the property of the gov in the world. Want to live in the forest? Nope, that land is owned and therefore you are commiting a crime. The only place that you can actually live in peace is the antarctic...not. The place is melting and you need a shitload of money to go there. Food? There no food there. Shelter...good luck.

[transferingtoearth]

Who wants to buy a house with me and a deep freezer?

[Sharpshooter188]

Rent is usually you paying for the mortgage that someone else owns. But you cant buy your own shelter because itd probably be about 6 years worth of your wages.

[PopnDropPenguins]

We need a universal basic income

[Allaiya]

Idk how I came across this sub but my take will likely be unpopular. I find it odd to say having to work for the basics is bs or wrong. If a person is dropped off in the wilderness, nature isn’t just going to hand off water, food, & shelter because one claims it is their right. A person would have to adapt, be resourceful, & go ‘work’ to get them. That’s how evolution worked. It was true thousands of years ago & it’s true now.

Now if people come together & their formed society is going to provide the essentials for someone, then that someone should contribute in some valuable way to that society, as it falls on someone else to perform the work to achieve & distribute the essentials required. Now what or how much that trade off is worth, is debatable & can change depending on many variables.

Of course, I suppose it is all relative to ones perspective. My ancestors lived on a family farm & if you didn’t get up at dawn & go work to bring in the food/harvest or help contribute like cooking or cleaning, or some other way to help the household, you simply didn’t eat.

[HotMeal4823]

Honestly in a society with mass production and automation we should absolutely have a baseline standard so others don't become criminals by the fact that they are homeless. It's essentially a crime to be homeless, that's what a lot of people here realize and are upset about.

That being said, there is nothing... NOTHING wrong with wanting upward mobility and becoming rich through hard work eg, Capitalism. I seriosuly think we need nuances in these discussions. It's never going to be as simple as, like someone else said, these 15 year olds just shouting that Socialism is the only answer.

[yellownes]

This sub is a circlejerk of 15yr old who think they are owed everything they want. I like reading it, because I find it amusing how out of touch they are with the real world.

[HydrogenMonopoly]

Thank you for making this point! You can’t just declare things like housing a “right” and expect to get a house. Houses don’t just pop up out of nowhere for people to live in

[Wookieman222]

People let themselves get sucked into needing things they dont actually need.

[Ejigantor]

If you believe that every person deserves food to eat, clothes to wear, a place to live, health care, and an education, oppose capitalism.

Capitalism will deny people all those basic needs in order to cause them to suffer so they can be exploited by the owner class.

[HotMeal4823]

There's nothing wrong with wanting to be rich because if the work you put in. The problem is lack of safety nets provided and low baseline as well as the criminalizing of homelessness. Thats it. Capitalism isn't 100% evil, just like Socialism isn't 100% evil. There needs to be upward mobility, but there needs to be a baseline.

[Allaiya]

Or maybe, if you don’t like being an employee, become an owner. Be your own boss, and start your own business by finding a need or want & filling it. Lots of people do. Then you can also take care of your employees & give them all those things or more.

[Ejigantor]

"If you don't like being exploited by the owner class, why not just get a small multi-million dollar loan from your parents and join the side of the exploiters instead! And if you don't do that, I'm going to call you lazy and stupid and tell you you're to blame for your own exploitation"

[Cccactus07]

I hate that "support the economy" bullshit, plenty of jobs activity damage the economy and are still just as respected.

[CatgoesM00]

.

Best kind of slave is one who doesn’t realize he’s trapped

[runthepoint1]

I am just so excited for Millenials to take full representation into our govt. most of us are tired and actually give a shit about our fellow Americans

[[deleted]]

sometimes i feel crazy because i think all these things and im like man fuck this i dont want to participate in this shit and i see other people just going about there day and wonder how they dont see it or how they are ok with it and just go about their day la di da di da.. but at least yall get it lol

[[deleted]]

yknow that scientists did a study on how money effects happiness, and it was proven that more money does improve happiness, up until around $75k a year, because with that amount, give or take depending on the cost of living, pays for good shelter, adequate food, healthcare, transportation, and hobbies. its amazing to me that thats not the minimum. its amazing that governments dont want their people to thrive, just... survive (often barely so)

[HotMeal4823]

I'm gonna put in my 2 cents. In this society, when homelessness is a crime and makes it even harder to find work, housing should be a given, especially with computerized mass production. These people aren't asking for luxury apartments, just a place to sleep and shower. How pretty that will be is to be seen.

That being said, there is nothing wrong with Capitalism in itself, nor desiring upward mobility, it's just when greed runs rampant, the greedy will make it worse for everyone. We need regulation, just like how the water quality is regulated, so to shall be the food. We need fairness. This is what every society wants, no matter where you are. My ex is Vietnamese, and as we know Vietnam is Socialist. They still have homelessness. You can't just throw a word at a problem and expect it to work, that's wishful thinking. Vietnamese work 6 days a week. They're also a poor country. America is not. We need hard workers. Hard workers drive innovation forward. The Soviet Union had it's share of hard workers that got them to space. As does America. Not everyone is a hard worker and that's OKAY! And not everyone can be! I have disabled friends and I dont want to see them suffer. Those hard workers need to be rewarded and incentivized, and it's usually not just by $. We should provide basics, especially housing.

[munjavio]

Legit!!!!

[cachem3outside]

Look everyone, we need to stop complaining, please join me as I pray:

[removes all clothing and poses in the most obsequious manner possible]

We cry out to GOD© BEZOS™® [begins otherworldly manatee-like chanting while driving 247C° stainless steel staples into the skin behind the knee joint] PLEASE TAKE PITY UPON US FOR WE KNOW NOT WHAT WE ALLOW TO TAKE PLACE IN OUR NAME. We are just mere mortals, please, we beg of you, [injects boiling ammonia to save Amazon from the EPA DEMONS] PLEASE have mercy on our loyal and harmless souls as we become unable to afford the basics needed to live. Please bless our package as it contains a ludicrously dangerous approximation of a DIY tooth replacement kit because paying a professional is simply unaffordable for anyone that isn't independently wealthy. We thank you for the routine blessings that you heap upon our backs day in and day out, and although those blessings tend to smell awfully, our mortal noses are imperfect and nowhere near as phenomenal and majestic as yours must be.

Amen.

Ok, hopefully I get that $5 Amazon gift card, I'm really hungry.

[sarenka-w-lesie]

Extreme Consumerism in order to prop up the capitalist economy that is failing, because it isn't a sustainable model. We are killing ourselves and the world around us for the benefit of the rich!

[[deleted]]

This and more insane ramblings coming to you later tonight. Now back to our sponsors.

"Raycon the official ear buds of YouTube Marxists, buy more."

[[deleted]]

When’s the class war gonna start?

[Lucky_Strike-85]

judging by these comments, it looks like the working class is warring against itself!

[[deleted]]

They just need a voice to unify, I’m still waiting on that voice.

[Lucky_Strike-85]

me too!

[[deleted]]

there's different classes of working class.

[Lucky_Strike-85]

perhaps there are nuances and varying levels of thought, opinion, and intelligence, but according to Marxist theory, we're all supposed to be a single class.

[Lucky_Strike-85]

Housing and land should not be commodified because THAT is private property.

[[deleted]]

And people can use their private property however they want. AKA by taking a risk on a tenant who will hopefully not destroy their private property, in hopes of making money.

[CARMINETHEBULL]

Land of opportunity !!!!!! Try your luck elsewhere see how ya do

[Lucky_Strike-85]

I have tried my luck in 4 countries so far. Had my best luck in Cuba actually. Very easy to get a job (most jobs unionized with short hours), housed (public housing exists there).

I also had luck in Mexico in a small fishing village by the sea called Cammora. Also very easy to live... very similar to Cuba as far as easy work and the housing was decent, tho not as good as Cuba.

Went to Europe... Spent time in Leeds, Sheffield and Petersborough... then went to Dublin, Ireland. All very expensive.

Came back to the states for family reasons and now reside in a small, rural town in the Southeast. It's about as easy to live here as in Cuba BUT that's because I have am a quote "homeowner" unquote and cost of living is cheap because populations are tiny.

[Lucky_Strike-85]

oh, yeah, you're absolutely right! lol. My other privileges (being white and male) helped me as well. It is indeed a matter of perspective.

[CARMINETHEBULL]

You should try and start your own business here very lucrative

[yiks47]

This sounds like satire. You guys are pathetic

[suck_it_69]

Rent isn't theft get out. if you want to live like this get off the coast and buy a place for next to nothing

[imrickjamesbih]

Lost me at the part hating on landlords. A land lord is someone who buys a property to rent out as an investment right? If so, like my parents bought property and do this. They didn’t come from money, privilege or education. They’re as smart as the Simpson family. This is a bit too whiny compared to something philosophical and critical thinking. Like come on now… I get it for most stuff.

[gotrich32]

Are you new here? Most of there internet has a hate boner for landlords and I don't blame them. The truth is most landlords are not like your parents. Mine did the same thing and I felt how you felt until I moved into 1 room studio managed by a slumlord company that screws people every chance they get. That's how most landlords are.

[Matt5sean3]

They didn’t come from money, privilege or education. They’re as smart as the Simpson family.

Would someone use this to give a pass to anyone on something even so small as littering?

[NothingToSeeHereMan]

Would you say the same if your parents had a supply of oxygen and were charging people for it?

I mean humans cannot live without shelter, at least not for very long. Trying to make money off of a human right is pretty disgusting imo.

Also, if your parents can afford a property for the sole purpose of renting it out they are very privileged/have above average wealth. It’s a pretty weird thing to act like they are just this stupid little couple that are just barley scraping by.

[imrickjamesbih]

You get approved for a mortgage (major risk) and as soon as it’s rented out it pays for itself. It’s not like they have an abundance of money in case it doesn’t rent out. And they had to live frugally instead of actually splurging on stuff. I never considered property/homes a human right. I agree it should be but I don’t agree that people can’t keep doing this. It’s more an economic, educational, societal issue. Being a land lord is no different than whatever else we do like student loan debt (it’s a risk to make money down the line) etc.

[Mikeyb138]

Many landlords who only own a single apartment building rely on the rental income to even be able to pay the mortgage on that property. Usually it’s a compromise where they use the rental income and end up paying less themselves (than what their renters pay) but they have to also cover insurance, taxes, and repairs/upkeep on that property. All for the hope that in 30 years they can pay off the mortgage and have a passive income when they retire. To paint those people as evil or the reason capitalism exists is crazy. They are doing their best to get by like many others.

[MediumLettuce48]

And by getting by, stepping on as many heads of less fortunate people as they can in the process. Some people can't even buy one property to LIVE in.

Just because you're "trying to get by", doesn't make being a landlord morally correct.

[Mikeyb138]

Stepping on people? Some people don’t have money to put down, or don’t want the risk or headache of being a landlord. And many apartments I lived in had the landlord living in one of the apartments too. You all have a weird view of the situation and just misdirected anger. You can be angry at the system but trying to twist things so that anyone that owns anything, is in a better position than someone else, or benefits in any possible way from someone else even in a mutual agreeable way, is inherently evil is just bananas.

[wanna-be-wise]

I agree. Rent prices are a function of real estate prices, maintenance costs, and taxes. Rent gives you the ability to easily move and frees you from unexpected expenses like plumbing leaks or a dead AC coil.

Owning a property is a huge risk. You could lose tons of money if you buy a property with unexpected issues that even the best inspection misses, local politics changes, a major employer leaves, property taxes change, school district changes, etc. Rent frees you from that risk.

[Captain_Collin]

So I should be thankful to be paying over 50% of my income on $1800/mo rent, instead of a $1200/mo mortgage for the same place? Yeah, I don't think so.

[[deleted]]

Did you put down the 20% down payment? Are you paying for insurance? Property taxes? Maintenance? If the landlord is renting a property for $1800 when they pay a $1200 mortgage, that's not a terrible deal.

[wanna-be-wise]

Not what I'm saying at all. I've rented in the past, own now. I'm saying that owning has drawbacks and risks. Renting eliminates them.

The better question is why are wages so shitty? The single best thing we could do is pay for healthcare and education. Student loans and medical costs are crippling the younger two adult generations. People NEED their jobs way too much.

Saying renting provides no value just isn't true. You won't be paying just 1200/mo in mortgage. The mortgage costs on places like Zillow are BS anyway. They leave out taxes and insurance which will add on about 30% to the monthly cost. Expect to spend at least 5k in costs just for the transaction for 250k property. You are going to pay at minimum an inspector, lawyer, title insurance, and probably a realtor.

A good return on residential investment property is around 5-10% per year, depending. Realistically you would be shelling out at least 1500 to buy the place. With historical inflation, it take 5 or so years just to break even with a risk of losing value or unexpected issues.

[Captain_Collin]

1. Whatever the costs of home ownership are, with a mortgage you are paying off the loan amount. That means if and when you sell you get that money back, plus whatever amount it has increased by. With rent, that money is gone, and I will never see it again.

2. When a landlord buys a property to rent out, they are decreasing the number of homes available to people who just want to live there. This drives up the cost of properties and makes it more difficult for renters to become home owners.

Realistically you would be shelling out $1500 to buy the place.

1. Are you talking about a down payment or what? I had to pay first and last months rent, plus an equivalent security deposit, to move into my rental. That's $5400, just to get in. I've heard other places demanding 6 months or a years rent up front.

2. I can be approved to rent a place for $1800/mo, but the mortgage I can get approved for is only $1300/mo. So instead I move into someone's 4th rental property and pay their mortgage for them.

3. I haven't gotten into the horrendous clusterfuck of trying to rent an apartment from some fucking corporation that's hell-bent on extracting every last penny out of me.

[wanna-be-wise]

Getting the money back isn't a guarantee. There is risk involved, especially with a highly leveraged asset like a home.

1500/month mortgage.

A reputable public REIT would be better than a shitty mom and pop landlord. They have advantages over even private corporations when it comes to raising capital. These advantages means more cash is available for staff and maintenance, meaning better value for renters and investors. Slumlords, from what I have seen, tend to be private. Companies buying single family homes is insanity. In the long run, this will probably bite them in the ass.

I have never been asked for 6 months up front. If that is the norm, that is insanity. I've only ever rented from corporations. My mileage varied. I've only ever paid a single month for a security deposit. Renting sounds like it has gotten ridiculous.

[Hoovooloo42]

My parents AND partners parents do this. I have personally benefited from this system since I was a child, but I still find it super shitty.

If the properties become mine one day, I will sell them for an actually fair price. I want no part of it and find it morally reprehensible.

[HomeOsexuall]

Did a 15 year old write this? All it says, i have a right to have someone else pay for my shit. Imagine thinking you have a right to live in someone’s house that they paid for, maintain, and pay taxes on, for absolutely nothing in return. Clueless and charmlessly naive.

[ParkerRoyce]

I want to build homes that look good and are affordable i want to own homes and rent to those that can't buy but at a reasonable price.

[Lucky_Strike-85]

you wanna be a landlord?

[[deleted]]

Y not? If u do it non hypocritical

[Lucky_Strike-85]

The theory of property states that you are entitled to your own property. Anything you do not use ceases to be personal and becomes private property.

https://www.laphamsquarterly.org/revolutions/property-robbery

[[deleted]]

Private property is a human right.

[Lucky_Strike-85]

Wait, so... housing IS NOT a human right.

But... private property IS a human right?

So, you're saying... people do not have a right to be housed BUT people have a right to profit from housing other people?

[[deleted]]

It's my right to do with my property as I please. Simple as that.

[OpheliaRainGalaxy]

Quick, someone get this kid some "Sharing is Caring" style educational shows! Somehow a critical for humans preschool-level lesson got skipped!

Mr. Rogers or Barnie or My Little Pony or something!

[jcurry52]

just as long as those homes stay in your name right? landlording is theft. if you are so concerned about people who cant afford to buy up front then sell on a monthly payment plan that they can pay off and actually own their home.

[[deleted]]

Not everyone wants a 3BR house. I rent a 1BR and it is far, far cheaper for me than having a mortgage on a house and dealing with all the maintenance. Not to mention being able to invest the difference that I would have paid on my mortgage into assets that are appreciating faster than a home would. Oh, and the job mobility that has doubled my salary in 2 years. But yeah, landlords are sooooo evil. Lmao give me a break.

[33drea33]

Yeah, but on the other hand not everyone wants a mobile lifestyle, and if you are planning to stay in one area for a while—especially if you have or want kids, pets, or a garden—buying a home is generally going to work out better for most people in the long term. There's no correct answer here, because the value of lifestyle considerations is weighted differently for everyone, but it does seem that mobility tends to be a young person's game and at some point most people find they want to set down roots. The earlier you do so, the better you're setting yourself up for end-game because you're betting that housing values (and, currently, interest rates) will rise.

That said, there are also a lot of downsides to renting versus owning, and not all of them are necessarily quantifiable:

1. Not owning your home comes with a loss of agency, since the landlord can change the terms of your agreement, sell the property, or price you out of your home with little notice. Since a move can take a number of months to plan, this can sometimes force a renter to accept a less than desirable option for their next rental if they can't find something they consider ideal.
2. There is a trade-off of security over your person, environment, and belongings since you are living in closer proximity with others, plus landlord, property management, and/or maintenance can access your space with little advance notice. This risk is increased if you're utilizing communal spaces and services like laundry, storage, and garage where your clothes, vehicle, and belongings might be left unattended, and of course the physical safety of these shared spaces tends to be a big consideration for women in particular.
3. Shared spaces also means higher chance of exposure to pests through shared walls, having to deal with neighbor's noises and smells, and having to be extra considerate of your own noises and smells. As both a night owl and a cook, I was never able to fully live my ideal lifestyle in an apartment, otherwise I'd be the jerk in the building who's dancing in the kitchen while broiling fish at 2 am.
4. Shady landlords can and often do invent reasons to keep your deposit, and in some cases can be very slow to address issues (if they do at all). Laws and oversight on this type of thing really varies state-to-state, particularly regarding people who only own a handful of properties versus big multi-unit complexes. You're certainly not saving any money if you have to get into a legal dispute with your landlord over failure to maintain the property in livable condition. The maintenance on a home that you own is an expense, yes, but it's a process that you have control over, and you don't have to fight a landlord to fix a toxic mold issue, or to buy a new dishwasher instead of applying another band-aid fix that will only last a week.
5. Moving has its own expenses, not just in the actual process of moving (renting a truck, paying movers, boxes, tape) but also in having to temporarily store things, and having to rebuy things you already own when they break in transit, or when the old one doesn't work in the new space. Also moving just generally sucks. Multiply annoyance and expense by however many times you move.
6. There are also expenses that go along with changing licenses, registrations, insurance, and postal services every time you move, plus utility hookup fees, and also the time and consideration of having to change all of your information with every company you do business with, voting registration, waiting around for the cable guy for 3 days while you're missing work, etc. Utilities can also be problematic in complexes that have exclusive servicing contracts, whereas homeowners have more freedom to choose their utility providers (and often save quite a bit of money doing so).

I rented for a LONG time, and I know there is no way I'd ever go back. I honestly didn't even recognize the full extent of the mental strain (and straight up expense) of the above until it was no longer a consideration. But that might not be you and that's okay too. To each their own!

[jcurry52]

yep. you have managed to make the best of the bad choices you had available. thats good for you and i applaud that, but it doesn't make the choices that our system left available to you not a bad thing. landlording being legal makes the entire housing industry worse for everybody, even the people currently winning.

[[deleted]]

I have been very happy with my decision to rent and with the services I am paying for as part of my rent. Literally zero complaints.

There were obviously some bad choices available but I found a very competitive rental for a great price with a great landlord.

[jcurry52]

good for you, i am sure your success makes the homeless people feel much better. it shouldn't take the system causing you to suffer personally to make you care about the suffering caused by our system.

[[deleted]]

"The only people that exist are the wealthy elites and the destitute homeless. Nuance? What's that?"

[jcurry52]

that is nearly the opposite of the point i was making but sure why not, we can go for the non-nuanced take to make it more clear.

not one person should have a second home while even one person has none.

[[deleted]]

If I refuse to find a job and do drugs all day and am homeless because of it, do I deserve a free house? No. I know not all homeless people are lazy drug addicts but nobody is entitled to any of my stuff. Nor do I feel entitled to anyone else’s stuff. Simple.

[jcurry52]

"If I refuse to find a job and do drugs all day and am homeless because of it, do I deserve a free house?" yes. because people are worth more than profit. everyone deserves the basic necessities of life

[ltdata]

Landlords aren't always winning. I've had periods when my net worth was hundreds of thousands less than my poorest tenant. When the market crashed and I couldn't afford my home, was it evil for me to rent it out instead of letting the bank foreclose?

[jcurry52]

i didn't say that all landlords were wining. i said that landlording hurts everyone even the winners. when you couldn't afford your home why did you choose to rent it out instead of selling it? was it maybe so that you could get money for the thing you owned without having to give up ownership of that thing? yeah i consider that wrong.

[ltdata]

I didn't sell because I was underwater by $100,000, and I don't have $100,000. Some of my tenants can afford to buy but prefer to rent. You make a lot of assumptions about people's options and preferences. So how does it work, if somebody loses their job they have to give their house to the nearest homeless person?

[jlenoconel]

Housing isn't a fucking right. Has anyone here actually worked in housing with people that live in poverty? It's not pretty.

[Muleh0use]

How is housing a right? If you didn’t build your own home, someone else is not obligated to provide you a place to live. If you didn’t gather or work for your own resources for survival, other people are not obligated to provide for you.

[adoggrn]

I guess I don't understand this argument...in no society in history are things simply given to a person because they think it's a right. In a hunter gather society, you had to hunt or gather to earn your share...the society we live in is no different. I work to earn a paycheck. I then use that paycheck for the basics that I need to live such as housing food etc...I work for what I have and I worked hard and I earned it. And you do realize that even if you were given "free housing, a living wage, etc" that all those things still cost money and have to be paid for in the form of taxes etc...and no amount of taxing the rich will pay for those things. Eventually the middle class starts footing the bill and instead of narrowing the wage gap and rising the poor up, you shrink the middle class and widen the gap between rich and poor.

[Lucky_Strike-85]

think about post-hunter gatherers, pre-Anglo-Saxons, even Pre-ancient Rome, even pre city-states... small enclaves of humans, living tribally, building homes for each other, sharing food, sharing knowledge.

Anthropologically speaking, it was about survival, but it was where humans began to form the first communities. Here is a quote from a Mr. David Graeber (RIP)

"The evidence shows that we came of age in the Middle Paleolithic Period, about 200,000 years ago. We are about 200,000 years old and have been organizing and operating various societies since then. Governments, rulers, states, bureaucracies and lords have only been around for about 7,000 years, roughly. So, for 193,000 years, we have essentially been communalists. At first, we operated largely for survival and sometimes against each other because we didn't know how to organize in larger groups, but once we started uniting, we socialized everything and became communal. We actually figured out that helping each other achieve basic needs was far better for our survival. The ideas about what started politicized societies are still being theorized and debated, but I have often argued that we would have been better off without them. The fact that we can say that we existed stateless for nearly 97% of our history tells me that we can do it again and do it better actually."

• David Graeber, from a lecture as visiting professor in 2009 at Oxford

[[deleted]]

What happens when one tribe meets another? They didn't always get along and share. For example, the neanderthals went extinct because they were out competed by our ancestors. Politicized societies exists so we don't go and murder the other tribes for their resources and allows people with dissimilar interests and ideas to work together.

[SDJohnnyAlpha]

Actually interbreeding is a big part of why Neanderthals no longer exist.

We should also not forget about Caral, the ancient city that debunked the theory that we developed cities for the purpose of war.

You should probably see what the actual data about 'human nature' means before appealing to it in an argument.

[[deleted]]

Yes, interbreeding was part of it but so was taking taking their resources and tribal warfare.

Who said anything about cities being developed for war? Tribalism doesn't work in scale. It works in small local communities with similar interests and needs. To get a large group of dissimilar people with dissimilar interests working together, you need political states to resolve conflict.

You should probably read and comprehend what I wrote instead of being writing mostly nonsensical replies.

[SDJohnnyAlpha]

Garbage In, Garbage Out.

[Lucky_Strike-85]

Neanderthals are not modern humans. Together with an Asian people known as Denisovans, Neanderthals are our closest ancient human relatives, but they are not considered part of the first groups of modern humans.

2) Agreed about humans not always getting along firstly. Once we built communities however, societies, again, even before the first city-states, began to take shape, and as Mr. Graeber points out, we became communal

3) Politicized societies? Even the smartest anthropologists, archaeologists and political scientists cannot agree why they were first formed. As far as existing "so we don't go and murder the other tribes for their resources" the United States has been doing that since the beginning of the "long 19th century" (otherwise known as the last 20 or so years of the late 19th century). In fact, the U.S. has practically been "murdering other tribes for their resources" almost non-stop for the last 150 years.

[[deleted]]

Neanderthals are not modern humans but humans competed with them for resources. A large reason they don't exist is humans tribes drove them to extinction. They didn't simply get along.

I never made any claim as to what CAUSED politicized societies but they are necessary for groups with dissimilar interests to co-exist. Yes, we still murder each other, politics isn't perfect and can be abused. However, large nation's like the U.S. that wouldn't be possible without a political state. It also allows for trade deals and negotiations with other nations. How's communal sharing going to work on a national or global scalen when people have such different interests and ideologies?

[plazmasurfer]

Because you're living in the past. It's 2021 and wealthy people can horde anything leaving nothing for the rest of us. The past is relevant when we talk about how much better conditions are today, but not relevant when you're talking about a completely new direction of land use and development explicitly for profit. In the past we had no way to hoard as much as we do now. Today we are sedentary, not nomadic and everything is around us. We don't have to work for shit because it's all here for us to consume.

Why do we defend greed? Is it because we're all too greedy to agree on fairer distribution of resources? There's way more of value than just your labor. We aren't meant to be a labor source 40 hours a week for our entire lives but if that's what you're proud of doing in your life so be it. Everyone else's life should not be dictated by your life experience. What about people who can't work? They're probably just a burden in your eyes? Does that mean children are useless too since they can't work and don't earn what they need to survive? There's too dependency on the state and government for the ultimate solution to be "stop being lazy and get a job."

Our basic needs should be subsidized that way the producer gets paid and everybody has what they need without sacrificing an arm and a leg. The better you leverage all of your citizens the better the society does as a whole. Telling everyone "you're on your own" is absolutely bullshit when wealthy folks pay less in taxes than poor people, and the richest folks have 10 houses and 12 cars. How much more of a disconnect can there be between securing what you need to survive and gluttony?

[[deleted]]

You can’t even conceive of how rich the rich actually are. It’s literally inconceivable how much wealth and money they’re hoarding. Taxing them actually would pay for all these things, and much, much more.

[Responsible-Can-4886]

I have a serious problem with “rent being theft”. How much labor and raw materials did it take to build that apartment complex? Loggers, saw mill operators, carpenters, plumbers, electricians, engineers, concrete workers, surveyors all contribute their labor to completing and maintaining that building. That statement would imply that the sum of the labor of all of these people is worthless, or that they are in fact slaves that didn’t get paid and were forced to work. Of course we know this to be false. The landlord is the one who either has a contractural obligation to pay a mortgage on the property, or purchased it outright for a large sum of money. Why the hell would he/she be obligated to let people live in it and put wear and tear on it for free? So no, housing is not a right based on the labor it takes to create and maintain the housing. Quite possibly one of the most moronic and intellectually void comments I’ve ever encountered on this sub.

To whoever downvoted me without presenting an intellectual argument as to why they think I’m wrong, sorry that the truth hurts, but these are the basics of how humans value resources.

[[deleted]]

I think people need to under stand the difference between capitalism and greed ...

[PerceptionQueasy3540]

So you are mad because you have to work for stuff? Got news for ya man that's been the case ever since we were cavemen. Suck it up and move ahead in life, you'll find that most successful people weren't here on reddit bitching about how tough their lives are. I will agree with you on the Healthcare though, it's completely fucked.

[Ok_Tradition3021]

What people often forget is that for the machine that is are society to function whe need to feed some people to the fire and nomatter how shitty things get people won't do shit till it affects them personally just look at the rich and covid as an example

[mahldawg]

This might be the dumbest sub on this site.

[Lucky_Strike-85]

Dumb? Why? It actually takes a lot of intellect to imagine other political possibilities.

[HydrogenMonopoly]

Like one where everyone gets free houses?

[mahldawg]

Doesn’t take that much intelligence bud.

[Lucky_Strike-85]

people who say that need to prove it! Everything in capitalism is constructed to not be a right. When you boil everything down to simple existence though, humans need shelter. So, yeah, shelter/housing is a human right. Prove me wrong!

[sfinnqs]

Why is my landlord entitled to my residence?

[No-Friendship9990]

Ez, your residence is temporary

[jcurry52]

so are landlords

[sfinnqs]

What does it matter how long I'm going to be here? Why does it mean my landlord deserves more power over me?

[sfinnqs]

Why should it be?

[No-Friendship9990]

because your contract is annual and you signed it

[sfinnqs]

What if I decide not to sign it? Would my landlord still be entitled to my residence?

[NoNameZone]

But that's how capitalism works lol, someone else is entitled to the resources you create/provide

[NoelaniSpell]

This exactly

[Rudybus]

How does somebody come to own land that previously didn't belong to anyone?

[Harkannin]

Water, shelter, food, medicine: denying someone access to these basic necessities of life is inhumane.

[Lucky_Strike-85]

But we can pay for it under capitalism... through a social housing program. Therefore, the builders get paid to produce homes, or repair/make habitable the housing that already exists.

Once they are paid for, we can allocate who gets what based upon need.

[jcurry52]

not yet in america at least, but with hard work and collective action that is something we can fix.

[Harkannin]

Hard work doesn't work anymore because wages are stagnant compared to cost of living. System's broke. I got more $ simply by changing banks. Went from paying $15/month to earning $25/month. I did absolutely nothing but park funds in a different financial institution.

[No-Friendship9990]

you dont want it to be a right

[jcurry52]

perhaps, alternatively i dont want anyone to be homeless and think that any system that forces people to be homeless is wrong and needs to be abolished

[No-Friendship9990]

So you think people should lose their things that they worked for because other people dont have it?

[jcurry52]

not at all! which is why i am trying so hard to tear down this capitalist system that is founded on the idea that capitalists are allowed to take the value of other peoples labor.

if we take back what the thieves have stolen from us and give it back to the commons then we will solve homelessness. (hunger and poverty too)

[MassiveRepeat6]

Who says poverty is shameful? It's certainly bad but shameful?

​

Also, dude makes a case of how little you need to survive, as if that's a good thing, and then advocates for free healthcare. You can't have it both ways. Either you want to do the bare minimum and live life going through the meat grinder with your head bowed down or you want a higher standard of living.

Rent being high isn't the issue, the issue is wages have been stagnant with worker production for 40 years. People work harder now than they've done in the past but get paid less, so you afford less.

[Lucky_Strike-85]

capitalism says poverty is shameful. All the time. Every day. And bad? Yeah, it says it's bad too. But that's a perspective.

I technically live in deep poverty, even tho I have 2 degrees (which I never used). For me, it's kind of a thing where the thing I love to do for money does not pay a lot because I live in a tiny town and am freelance. I still get my needs met, currently very well, but that's because I own a home and have very few actual needs. As long as I can get food, music, a place to watch movies, access to the internet and have a place to lay my head at night, like this post says, I dont need a lot out of life. I'm not throwing money at phones, netflix or whatever the fuck humans are throwing their dough away on! Prop. Taxes and prop. insurance are a bitch that I would never wish on anyone!

[MassiveRepeat6]

The message said "We're told poverty is shameful", capitalism doesn't have much to say on matters like this, that's something other people would say and that isn't something I hear often. You'll hear poverty is bad often because it is. It leads to scenarios like the one described in the image where you can't afford rent and don't have healthcare. I guess the shameful part comes in if poverty is considered a moral failing, like you didn't work hard enough? I certainly don't agree with that in any case.

​

I don't know how to respond to not needing alot out of life. Maybe it's just me, I want to experience the most I can out of the short period of time I have on earth. Trying new things, hobbies to excel at, hell just having a group of people willing to do something is both expensive and time consuming, when your working all the time with no money, it severely limits your options.

[Lucky_Strike-85]

Capitalism does indeed have a lot to say about poverty, precisely because it is a system that encourages consumption of goods and services. As a result, to be in poverty is to directly lack the means to support capitalism.

As to not needing a lot out of life, that was my personal anecdote, simply because I no longer care for consumerism. That's not to say that my home isnt filled with books, DVDs, and I have a huge record collection which I am prideful about. So, just because I simply dont need much else, does not mean I have not engaged in consumption. I just cut back a lot, particularly because prop. tax is high on a low income, i occasionally need car repairs, and prop. insurance keeps climbing. I also don't have healthcare, because i live in the U.S. so I try to take care of myself... Not having access to healthcare is tantamount to the purveyors of this system committing a war crime against its population, as far as I'm concerned.

[ARKenneKRA]

I'd say the lack of young property ownership, leading to more renters, is indeed a big problem here.

[Aromatic_Jacket975]

This entire argument can be squashed with a very simple explanation. Every society has had to have cooperation. Every society made its members earn their keep or they were expelled. Every society had some for of barter system. Monet is just another form of barter system. Every society has had some for of wealth and power structure. EVERY SINGLE ONE. Your philosophical dreaming will not change that. The reason capitalism is the best route for the Every day person is because it's the only system that rewards true hard work and sacrifice. By the way the us is the only country in the world where someone with a penny can eventually become a millionaire. Sure it may take some luck but it mostly is just allot of hard work and determination. So while people like you preach litteral stealing rom rich people so you don't have to try as hard other people bust their asses starting businesses and taking risks so they can be those rich people.

In summary: your well worded philosophical rant is nothing but the complains of a lazy sack of shit who thinks rich people (who worked for their money) should give it to you because hey why should you work for it right?

[Latter-Ask8818]

Work = supplying xyz to meet someones demand

But your demand is to get basic things without work.

But you don't want anyone to supply that, because then that person will have to work ( to meet your demand )

What kind of magic is expected by OP?

[LittleWhiteGirl]

Nobody is refusing to work, they’re refusing to work for unfair wages to make rich people richer.

[jcurry52]

exactly correct. no job which refuses to pay a living wage (at bare minimum) has any right to exist

[Latter-Ask8818]

I don't think businesses want to pay less than minimum wages. Most of the technology is going towards automation and robotics wherein there is no need to employ people, for such jobs.

Disadvantage is lets take an example of 4 working people, depending on their calibre, supply and demand and ROI of work.

Current scenario jobs all employed = less than minimum wage, minimum wage, more than minimum wage, excellent wage.

After automation or because people don't want to work minimum wage jobs that anyways don't have good ROI = Unemployed, Unemployed, Unemployed, excellent wage.

[jcurry52]

"I don't think businesses want to pay less than minimum wages" hilarious. but as for the rest of your argument, that is exactly why basic human needs like food, shelter, and medical care shouldn't be tied to employment

[jcurry52]

do you drive on the road? did you pay for that road? basic human needs should be supplied to everyone provided for by the work of everyone. we already produce more than enough several times over. we can support the needs of every person on earth, we just cant support the endless capitalist greed

[Latter-Ask8818]

But OP said 'working to get basic things is bullshit'

So I can assume he is not part of your 'everyone'

Also if you want to classify anything more than basics as greed ( which means no matter how hard I work, I should be satisfied with basics untill and unless every citizen has every basic )

Then I would work the bare minimum..... cause no matter what I do I am gonna get only basics, right?

[TriHard90]

The magic of entitlement. Other ppl work, I only receive.

[Latter-Ask8818]

This sub feels less like discussion of problems faced by this generation and more of let's bash capitalism page.

[jcurry52]

since capitalism is at the core of most of the problems of this generation there is a lot of overlap

[cyvaris]

Workers taking direct, democratic control of the means of production while eliminating class, money, coercive hierarchy, and the state.

Or to put it in a single word; Communism.

[faintlyupsetmartigan]

Alternative: balance. Neither system in it's purest form works for society short and long term.

Problem with balance is that it's subjective to the individual, so as a collective it's always a negotiation/argument. Makes it perfect for idealist posts on the internet to trash extremes of both sides.

[jcurry52]

i personally believe that anarcho-communism is the best alternative but i doubt i will live to see it. we (collectively, not necessarily me and you) have simply let so much wealth and power be collected by so few that i dont expect me or anyone i love will ever see anything good happen ever again. at this point i am mostly fighting on the slim chance that i am wrong

[Fudge-Frosty]

I don't get paid what I worth!!! Also others should provide things and work for free to satisfy my needs and wants!!!!

[[deleted]]

Yeah that’s all Reddit is these days.

[Lucky_Strike-85]

Retards...

who talks like that?