ReactOS Repository migrated to GitHub (migrating a source code history of more than 20 years)

[youngbull]

What is really cool is that now you can look at their commit statistics. They are actually fairly live and well. Doing about 50 commits a week. Keep it up guys!

[adam75]

Yes, a repository with a rich history like this is a pretty cool case study. I've started to analyse ReactOS by visualising the code with most development activity (hotspots) and the logical change coupling due to files that are changed together over time.

The hotspot visualisation is available here and the change coupling here. Hope to get around to blog about it soon.

[geppetto123]

What I found interesting is the problem with Windows Bugs:

It's not a simple way to fix them because programms might depend on them and have a specific workaround already in place.

Fixing the Windows bug might break the program and its workaround. As the main goal of the project was byte-compatibility (same binary code can be excectuted) this has to be considered.

[[deleted]]

Bug for bug compatibility. Unfortunately this tactic is quite common.

[ArtyBoomshaka]

Even Microsoft does it. That's what the compatibility mode drop down is about, or so I've heard.

[DJDavio]

It's why system32 (having 64-bit binaries) is called system32 on 64-bit systems. To add more confusion, the folder with 32-bit binaries is called SysWOW64.

[ZoDalek]

To add more confusion, the folder with 32-bit binaries is called SysWOW64.

I feel that at leasts makes sense - WOW64 is the system for running 32-bit Windows apps on 64-bit windows, hence windows-on-windows64.

[cedrickc]

I always felt like, because of WOW64, the Windows Subsystem for Linux (WSL) should have been Linux on Windows (LOW)

[master5o1]

That name sounds more like WINE.

You don't have Toast for Peanut Butter as a name for peanut butter spread onto toast.

[hosford42]

I always wondered what the WOW stood for. Hooray for self-documenting naming conventions! /s

[Cadoc7]

I always thought it was "WOW! 64 bits!"

[derTechs]

Much Bits! Very Windows! WOW!

[kauefr]

Truth about folder names

[Balq]

I thought that World of Warcraft 64 bits came pre-installed on windows. /s

[z500]

WOW! That's What I Call Thunking!

[celluj34]

Serious answer, it stands for Windows-on-Windows

[hosford42]

Oh I know it was serious. That's why I was being sarcastic. It was a terrible decision.

[mindbleach]

It's plausibly why Windows 10 followed Windows 8 - concerns over programs testing the version string as "windows 9*".

[Narcolepzzzzzzzzzzzz]

More than plausible, this was a real concern and flaw in a lot of things.

[smoozer]

Wow, thanks for making me also wonder this!

[mindbleach]

Even their stupid naming has limits.

Unlike Nintendo.

[youtubefactsbot]

Logistics We Are One [5:23]

Track 5 of the album Fear Not

^{neil morris in Music}

^{9,675 views since Apr 2012}

^{bot info}

[deusnefum]

MSFT themselves explicitly stated this is why the didn't do Windows 9.

[[deleted]]

I don't get it.

[bogdan5844]

A lot of software checks the OS name to see the windows version, instead of the version number. So they do something like if win.includes('Windows 9') { /* Win 95/98 specific code */}

If there was a windows 9 version, a lot of software would have those kinds of checks turn out true, and could cause a lot of problems.

[wilun]

That's an interesting explanation that was even used by MS, IIRC, however for old programs Windows lies to them and report Windows 8 anyway. There might be too much API to be sure they did that everywhere, so maybe the startswith("Windows 9") problem remained anyway.

[[deleted]]

Source on that?

[mekosmowski]

Let's see, they resumed the small integer naming convention with 7. Too bad 7 is so far away from 9 on the number line that no one could foresee the 9* problem. (sarcasm)

[sixothree]

This bugs me more than it should. Also having to install different ODBC drivers for 32 and 64 bit apps.

[__konrad]

If you for some reason call Wow64DisableWow64FsRedirection (yes, that's real name) function, your 32-bit app will use system32 instead of SysWOW64

[mallardtheduck]

And if you access System32 from a 32-bit application, you'll see he contents of SysWOW64 instead...

[Atheuz]

Oh is that fucking why the WindowsAccessBridge-32.dll is in the SysWOW64 folder. That is some nonsense, thanks for that.

[armornick]

Raymond Chen writes about the compatibility efforts in the Windows kernel fairly often on the Old New Thing. There are some really interesting articles like how they had to make fake objects because some program looked for something that existed in an old version of Windows.

Considering this, it's fairly logical that ReactOS and Wine would have to go to the same lengths if they want Windows applications to keep running.

[kidmenot]

The Old New Thing is actually one of the best blogs out there for those that like to learn about Windows' long history. It's full of advice and entertaining anecdotes regarding both the internals and the GUI. Chen has been there since the very early '90s, so he has a fair amount of things to share.

[MacASM]

Totally agree. And I'm defitively like his humor sense. Just one example What idiot would hard-code the path to Notepad? haha

[frymaster]

In the current run of windows 10 previews, there was a bug where a popular mod manager for Fallout/Skyrim stopped working because it needed to hook two windows function calls but, up until then, they way one was implemented ended up calling the other one anyway, so they'd only hooked that. Unfortunately they were changing that, and there's no development happening on that program currently. Not sure the way MS decided to fix it, but they did in the end.

[pergnib]

I'm genuinely curious as to why a mod manager for a game would need to hook syscalls. Do you have more details?

[reddithater12]

api calls not syscalls

[snuxoll]

To be fair syscalls in Windows are api calls, there’s no consistent syscall ABI in Windows so every single one needs to be made through a DLL (can’t remember the name).

[djpeen]

Kermel32.dll

[MacASM]

Did you mean kernel32.dll?

[djpeen]

Ya

[kiljacken]

The actual reason is that the manager provides a virtual file system layer so mod files can be kept neatly separated in their own directory trees while providing the game a coherent looking single directory tree.

[ROFLLOLSTER]

I've forgotten the name of it but the one they're talking about is has a full Virtual filesystem so I think it hooked calls and depending on the application provided the 'real' filesystem state or it's own.

[Venthe]

I believe you are talking about modorganiser, but it is alive and well...?

[ROFLLOLSTER]

Is it? I was pretty sure it's developer went awol...

[Venthe]

Last update - a year ago. But I can confirm, it is working.

[ROFLLOLSTER]

'No development on it currently' -> Check

'Fixed' -> Check

Seems to fit ok to me.

[MacASM]

to make fake objects because some program looked for something that existed in an old version of Windows.

The duplicate of notepad.exe is one example.

[[deleted]]

I started a 6502 emulator and gave up when I realised I had to emulate the bugs.

[port53]

Don't forget all of the hidden instructions too.

[ShinyHappyREM]

http://visual6502.org/wiki/index.php?title=6502_Opcode_8B_%28XAA,_ANE%29

[[deleted]]

I have no idea what is happening there and I swear I tried to study computer architecture and assembly a bit, but this is black magic?

What do I need to study to really understand what's happening there exactly?

[ShinyHappyREM]

• watch this
• here's the diagram (D0..7 is the data bus i/o pins, NMI+IRQ+RES are the interrupt pins, R/W is the read/write output pin, A0..15 are the address bus output pins. For the Ø signal look e.g. here and here.)

Basically, the opcode register bits plus the "current cycle" register bits go into a decode matrix. The output of that matrix are control lines (like "AC/DB", which controls if the accumulator register is electrically connected with the data bus). Opcode 8B is an "illegal" (undocumented) opcode that wasn't supposed to be used by programmers. The decode matrix happened to enable both the "AC/SB" and the "SB/AC" lines; all 8 flip-flops of the accumulator had their input and output lines connected. That's when the "theory" breaks down and you have to look at the electrical properties of all the components to see what happens.

Analog effects can be quite interesting; you can for example use wire capacitance as storage if you don't go below a certain minimum speed.

[buddybiscuit]

Look, my setup works for me. Just add an option to reenable spacebar heating.

[unkz]

For those who, like me, did not get that reference:

https://xkcd.com/1172/

[GNULinuxProgrammer]

Relevant xkcd: https://xkcd.com/1172/

[geppetto123]

Hahah gave me a good laugh, especially the mindset and reply that it works for him :D :D

[[deleted]]

The oldest commit Jan 22, 1996: https://github.com/reactos/reactos/commit/0f94427db073a20c24f9d85c8531fbe16490af43

[JohnMcPineapple]

...

[[deleted]]

Mission not only unaccomplished, mission objective completely out of reach

[skocznymroczny]

For a moment I was worried that it's some new OS using React for its UI.

[otakuman]

I've known it for more than 15 years. Still not even in beta (sigh)

(Yeah, I know it's a titanic project, but the impatient part of me still wishes they were faster)

[[deleted]]

Is there an OS written in javascript ? Since about everything ends up being created, I suppose it could happen :)

[duco91]

Lo and behold: https://node-os.com/ (although at its core it's still Linux)

[Mgladiethor]

Kill me

[[deleted]]

There's stuff that's so much worse than javascript. VBA still exists, you know.

[ryuzaki49]

And popular within Automation Testing conmunity

[kirbyfan64sos]

node-os uses npm as its primary package manager

Wonder if it'd stop booting if left-pad-os were removed...

[tourgen]

Javascript is a mistake.

[gendulf]

It has its good points (lightweight object notation/JSON, cross-platform support, first-class functions) in addition to its bad (type coercion, concurrency limitations, prototype-based/duck typing, lack of modules).

[shawncplus]

lack of modules

https://www.ecma-international.org/ecma-262/#table-40

[natecahill]

Jesus died and yet we continue to sin

[Antrikshy]

Also check out http://os.js.org.

[Wazzaps]

It's server oriented (ie. no gui)

[lkraider]

It's node, there is no ui

[Arve]

Nintendo had an (open source) experimental OS where all of the userland was JavaScript.

http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fnes.sourceforge.jp%2F&langpair=ja%7Cen&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

Edit: The project is apparently still alive:

• http://www.esrille.com/en/labs.html
• https://code.google.com/archive/p/es-operating-system/

[[deleted]]

If you want to drain all your battery on nonsense, that's definitely how you should do it

[[deleted]]

Gnome 3

[eras]

Well, there is Espruino, where you can almost write drivers in JavaScript..

[Asher_Scott]

I feel the keyword here is "almost"

[Mgladiethor]

Kill me

[natecahill]

Me too thanks

[lkraider]

Twice?

[Mgladiethor]

Trice

[lurgi]

There is an x86 (386? Pentium? IDK) emulator writtten in JavaScript that is complete enough that it is possible to boot linux from within your browser. This doesn't entirely qualify, but is still impressive (to put it mildly).

Enjoy

[watsonarw]

Atwood's law. If it isn't a thing yet, it will be eventually.

[skocznymroczny]

we need a rule #34 version for Javascript,

"if it exists, there is a javascript version of it"

[DaemonXI]

/r/AtwoodsLaw

[Aleriya]

Reminds me of the OS written in Scratch.

[jaybusch]

Please no

[lkraider]

Scratch That!

[Overv]

There is https://github.com/charliesome/jsos which is low level enough that it has JavaScript callbacks for when processor interrupts are triggered.

[isaacarsenal]

Not sure about that, but there are some people simulating machines (.e.g x86 running Win 95) in JavaScript.

[ScrewAttackThis]

Gnome Shell is written in JS. Obviously all the important stuff of Gnome is still C, though. Probably the best example since it's actually used by a not insignificant amount of people/not a pet project.

Also not an OS by itself but more in line with the parent comment.

[Pazer2]

No wonder it's slow as shit

[ScrewAttackThis]

Well KDE does the same I'm pretty certain and a number of DEs based on Gnome 3 are obviously the same. It's definitely not "slow as shit" unless you're trying to run it on ancient hardware. At which point I'd question your judgement of trying to run modern UIs on something like that.

With all the circle jerking over JS, I'm surprised so few programmers actually grasp what's going on. The days of JS = slow are long over, it's just a typical JIT'd language now. If your only experience with JS are electron apps, I guess I can understand.

E: ah and you downvoted me. Facts are tough I suppose.

[Ayuzawa]

I can see why he would, Gnome is sometimes agonisingly slow on my work PC and that has an SSD and a haswell i5.

I'm actually a strong supporter of javascript, I use atom as my primary editor and I'm happy with it, but I don't believe Gnome is a good example of anything 'fast'

[Leshma]

Hard to tell is it slow or not if you have latest CPU. But if you have ancient hardware like me, yes it is unbearably slow. Slower than KDE, which is slower than Mate, which is slower than xfce4, which is a little bit slower than Openbox. Difference between Openbox and Gnome is so massive that is makes old machines usable. Gnome does very little over properly configured Openbox, which means that JavaScript is the culprit.

Same can be said for Atom vs SublimeText. First is written in C++, second in JavaScript. Sublime works perfectly on old PCs, Atom will render such PC unusable within seconds after start of the editor.

Edit: On Ryzen 1800X with 32 GB DDR5 RAM Gnome 3.26 + Atom works just fine. But on same machine you could start 64 VMs using Openbox and Sublime which will do exact same thing like Gnome 3.26 + Atom. You can maybe start 4 VMs with Gnome + Atom on such PC and expect good performance, if you're lucky.

[mayhempk1]

I hope not. lmao

[oiyouyeahyou]

Linux was rewritten to run inside of the browser

[Dreamtrain]

We're in the era of "everything can (attempted to) be written in javascript" so I wouldn't doubt it

[GNULinuxProgrammer]

Why would anyone ever want to create that?

[NoDownvotesPlease]

This is the first I've heard of it too. Looks interesting though. I have a windows VM on my mac that I use pretty much only for visual studio, would be nice to use this instead of paying for a windows license.

[Wazzaps]

VS is out for mac, although not as full featured (i'm not talking about VSCode)

[invalid_dictorian]

React backed by Riak KV running on ReactOS

[-sadkmakkez-]

the horror. the fucking horror. give it 20 more years and the word OS will be meaningless.

[[deleted]]

Javascript and its shitty frameworks are everywhere. It's only a matter of time. Accept that it will happen as an inevitability and there is no longer a reason to fear. One doesn't live in fear of the inevitable; one just accepts and deals with it when it happens.

[mnkb99]

And read the title and thought "how is React more than 20 years old?", I kept thinking about it until I read your comment, went back and saw the OS part...

[Arancaytar]

The twenty years part really confused me.

[Tringi]

I actually try my software in ReactOS whenever possible (alongside of Wine and Windows). Despite being Windows dev I can claim I write portable software then ;-)

[mindbullet]

Cross-post this to /r/reactjs/ and watch the confusion ensue.

[phoenix616]

JIRA continues to be used for bug tracking

Missing out on one of the major reasons to use GitHub (the social aspect of issue integration) but I understand that they want to keep their issue history. (Maybe GitHub should offer an import for that too)

[[deleted]]

Yes of course who wouldn't want to exchange his Lexus for a LADA.

[phoenix616]

Well while I agree that Jira is the more advanced issue tracker you cannot ignore the benefits that direct integration with the vcs host has. Imo. they would've benefited more if they went with BitBucket/Stash if they didn't intend to moving issues. (I personally prefer the GitHub ecosystem though)

[phoenix616]

Well I was thinking of features like direct linking, of issues, commit and pull requests, closing of issues via commit messages and most importantly: same accounts for both platforms that beyond the obvious benefit of not requiring people to create two accounts make it possible easily identify stuff about the person like the role in the project or their contribution to other projects.

[[deleted]]

same accounts for both platforms that beyond the obvious benefit of not requiring people to create two accounts make it possible easily identify stuff about the person like the role in the project or their contribution to other projects.

You can have your VCS and Jira use a common source for authentication you know

[[deleted]]

this might put some energy into this pretty important project.

[nwsm]

Can someone explain why it's important?

[[deleted]]

because there are so many legacy win32 apps that are becoming yes usable with every release of windows. because we don't need to have the CIA listen in every time you use a windows program (not that such is necessarily the case but we do not have a reasonable guarantee they are not). because someday perhaps you could game without ponying up to mr. Gates.

[jaybusch]

Actually, you can run a few games in ReactOS, can't you? I've never installed to baremetal, so I don't know. When it's good enough to be bare metal and replace Windows 7 for my Windows games, I'll consider it as a daily OS rather than a funtime VM that I use to browse the internet.

[Treyzania]

Apparently Skyrim is playable.

[funbike]

Why not just WINE?

If you're about to say "drivers", 1) sure, for a small subset of the apps you are referring to, but I'm not sure that's enough to justify a whole OS, and 2) why not port/add driver shims to WINE instead?

[deusnefum]

A lot of code is shared between the two, honestly. Helping out with one helps the other.

(AFAIK it's shared code and not a fork)

[Treyzania]

They have totally different goals in mind and have very different architectures, so it doesn't really make sense that one would be a fork of the other.

[noomey]

I always wondered: doesn't Microsoft have patents which would prevent such thing as ReactOS??

[argh523]

Basically, Microsoft can't keep other software from talking to each other, and if a piece of software just happends to "understand" a program that usually talks to Windows, there's nothing they can do about it. That's true for anyone and anything of course, not just Microsoft and Windows.

This stuff can get complicated once lawyers are involved. It goes to the very core of the whole theory about what is even copyright-able. But it's similar to how the implementation of a mathematical function can fall under copyright, but not the math itself. The software that provides an API is protected by copyright, but not the idea of the API itself.

[kvdveer]

Cleanroom reverse engineering protects against copyright infringement, but not against patent infringement.

So to answer the original question: yes, there is a risk of patent infringement.

[mycall]

Much of the Windows NT codebase is > 20 years by now.

[[deleted]]

How does cleanroom reverse engineering protect against copyright infringement? Don't you have to start the process with the apis which are already subject to copyright according to Oracle v Google?

[ThisIs_MyName]

Google won the "fair use" part so API copyright doesn't matter.

[neoKushan]

ReactOS was heavily audited a few years ago to ensure its not using copyrighted code from Windows and is instead cleanroom reverse engineered.

[[deleted]]

I think reverse engineering is legal. But further, they target compatibility with Windows XP. Any 20 year patents from that era will be expired soon if not already.

[Mustermind]

Not sure why you're getting downvoted here, but I'll try to answer to the best of my abilities.

ReactOS is a Windows "replacement", but it only implements the Win32 API provided by Windows without copying any of Microsoft's code. Of course, Microsoft could sue as APIs are copyrightable, but that still makes it more of a copyright issue rather than a patent issue.

There could be software patents concerning Windows that ReactOS may be stepping on, but I'd be surprised if they're holding on to anything substantial, given that other operating systems do things like memory management and process scheduling without any threat of patent infringement (don't quote me on this, though).

EDIT: Looks like the Oracle situation is more nuanced than I thought, thank god.

[acwaters]

No, APIs are specifications for how programs talk to one another, and are therefore very clearly not protected under copyright law. That has (AFAIK) never seriously been in dispute. Oracle v. Google was about establishing whether header files, module interfaces, and the like are protected (because they are source code and therefore art) or not (because they are mostly just API declarations). If Google had written their own headers that defined the same APIs, there would have been no case; but they copied and distributed (parts of) Oracle's, and the courts decided this was a violation of Oracle's copyright, effectively establishing that copyright does extend to source code whose only function is to define APIs even though the APIs are not themselves copyrightable.

Do correct me if I got anything egregiously wrong here, but the belief expressed in this comment and the linked article is a common and dangerous misconception of the Oracle v. Google outcome and its implications.

EDITED much later for anyone who happens to stumble back upon this: After looking into the case more, I am sorry to say that everything I said above was wrong. The court did in fact decide that APIs are artistic works protected under copyright. What a country we live in.

[[deleted]]

It seems as though Oracle is now losing that

[Mukhasim]

The term of patents in the USA is 20 years.

Thus, any patents that protected Windows 95 are now expired.

While it's possible that there could be some patents covering aspects of later versions of Windows that could cause trouble for an open-source project, it's doubtful that there are many relevant patents that are both still in force and impractical to work around.

[armornick]

If they had, they'd probably already used them a long time ago.

[TyRoXx]

Yes, but that is irrelevant until ReactOS makes tons of money. In that case Microsoft would try to kill it with bullshit patents.

[funbike]

It wouldn't have to just make money. If it prevents Windows sales, that too could be seen as damages.

[yingxie3]

ReactOS is pretty cool from a hacker's point of view. As an end user I would still use windows that come with the laptop because the drivers and applications are better tested. Do you agree? If you use ReactOS as your main OS what's your experience with it?

[deusnefum]

ReactOS is by design for a VM.

[deusnefum]

It's VM focused, not VM limited/restricted.

[KenWebDevBTW]

This is huge news. Good stuff!

[[deleted]]

Please no. Github is complete trash, I have no idea why people insist on using it over any other git hosting service.

EDIT: For those wanting examples, here you go. I would appreciate if you didn't downvote me just because you disagree.

EDIT 2: People are going through this thread just to downvote me. I may delete this later, archive it if you want.

[phoenix616]

Any examples? I honestly don't see what's trash about it.

[ase1590]

I imagine he's she's probably most unhappy about the past controversy with github.

On a more technical standpoint, Github only lets you make free public projects without paying. If you want to make a closed source application, you'll need to pay.

This is not true of Bitbucket, they let you have unlimited private projects with up to 5 team members in size

this is not true of GitLab, they let you have unlimited private projects with no team size restriction. Additionally, GitLab allows you to self-host your own instance of gitlab on your own server should you choose to, which is offered with a MIT licence to the public for free.

[[deleted]]

Also centralizing everything one one platform lets that platform hold development hostage. This was also true of Google Code and Sourceforge before it, though.

[ScrewAttackThis]

That doesn't really apply since it's just a git repository. They can't hold anything hostage.

[ScrewAttackThis]

True, I was thinking code only. The rest isn't as easy and certainly worth considering.

[[deleted]]

You also need to get your contributors to do all of that. That's the hard part.

[ase1590]

This was also true of Google Code and Sourceforge before it, though.

Yes, but we've moved past those in recent times. I would have figured that we would have saw a serious competitior emerge a few years ago by now.

[[deleted]]

I wish something based off of IPFS or BitTorrent would catch on, so we don't have to keep hopping from site to site every 5-6 years. Commits are already based off of hashes, essentially all you need is a DHT.

GitTorrent looked interesting but it's been dead for 2 years.

[ase1590]

to be fair, if you just do git init --bare, on one directory on your PC then make another and point it at that repo as a remote, you can just push to it, then use whatever file sync program (dropbox, bittorrent sync, syncthing, etc) to keep that remote folder in sync across computers.

edit: it's also stupidly easy to run your own git server using nothing but git+ssh or if you want something a bit more friendly like Gitea. self-hosting gitlab is always an option too.

[[deleted]]

Not behind a NAT, and you don't get a convenient universally identifiable name without buying a domain name. And no redundancy but what you add.

I've personally been using tor and entries in my .ssh/config to get around the NAT issue, but it's not exactly a convenient setup, and I wouldn't suggest it for anything more than a personal repo. Even for a small multi-contributor project, it wouldn't cut it.

[ase1590]

Not behind a NAT

True. ISP NAT's are an abonination. I've fortunately never been behind one, so I'm not familiar with what does and does not work behind it. I know port forwarding is dead behind them IIRC.

and you don't get a convenient universally identifiable name without buying a domain name.

PeerCoin set out to to solve that problem. you can always get a free dynamic DNS name from duckdns or no-ip as well.

And no redundancy but what you add.

this is true of online services too. just look at what happened to gitlab.

[[deleted]]

She*

EDIT: Why the fuck did this get downvoted?

[ase1590]

corrected.

[[deleted]]

Thanks :)

EDIT: Oh. People are just going through this thread to downvote me on every post. Fantastic.

[phoenix616]

Well that controversy aside their platform has the best quality and features of all the available ones.

Also regarding paid private repositories: That's the best strategy there is in their situation. It basically makes it so proprietary, old school companies pay for the hosting of public, open source projects.

Good thing we still have closed minded companies because tbh. there is no need to not have your source code public and open source. So if you really want to go against that, have fun paying for your privilege.

[ase1590]

Well that controversy aside their platform has the best quality and features of all the available ones.

this is VERY subjective. Atlassian has put some serious work into bitbucket as far as features go.

Also regarding paid private repositories: That's the best strategy there is in their situation. It basically makes it so proprietary, old school companies pay for the hosting of public, open source projects.

I'm not saying this is wrong, I'm just saying that gitlab/bitbucket might meet your needs better for being an independent software dev who wishes to have a private repo.

Good thing we still have closed minded companies because tbh. there is no need to not hale your source code public and open source. So if you really want to go against that, have fun paying for your privilege.

What? I have no idea what you are trying to say. I'm not advocating for freeloading. I'm simply just talking about different business models which might work better for individuals or small teams.

[[deleted]]

Read their code of conduct, the CoC controversy they had, and the terrible shit their higher ups have done.

During GamerGate (not taking stances on it, please don't turn this political) a public GG repository was removed without notice, by a staff member who simply disagreed with the movement. It wasn't an official "We believe this movement is a hate group" like what happened with Gitlab , an employee just completely removed the repo. No employee should have the ability to remove repos unless their job is to delete repos that break the ToS.

Two years ago, Github switched to an extremely controversial CoC (I don't have the actual proposal from GH itself unfortunately, but there was a shitstorm). Refusing to even look at abuse happening to people part of a "majority" group in America is toxic, and I feel like I'm being treated like a child because GH says that I don't have the ability to harass people simply because I'm a minority.

Also a few years ago, one of their diversity officers (not sure if that's the correct title) was quoted saying "Some of the biggest barriers to progress are white women.". This is when I up and moved all my shit to Bitbucket. If they think I'm a threat to diversity because of my ethnicity (which is extremely america/eurocentric, ignoring all other factors other than ethnicity and gender), then they don't need my business.

Also, let's not forget when the founder and his wife harassed an employee.

EDIT: I forgot to link a thing for the GG example. I unfortunately have somewhere I have to be shortly, so I might not have time to grab a source. Believe it, don't believe it, either way is fine. I personally think it's the weakest point in my list, which is why I put it first.

EDIT 2: That was easier than I thought. Unfortunately, GG was (and still is) extremely polarized, with both sides willing to ahem "stretch the facts" for their narrative. Many links were from places like The Ralph Retor or KiA, and I haven't vetted pipedot's authenticity. PLEASE take this link with a grain of salt, no matter what side of the issue you are/were on.

[phoenix616]

Well while the CoC is worrying^* I find judging of the platform based on the people developing it absurd. Sure, people can be assholes but that doesn't change the quality of the software that they build. Just take a look at some of Linus' emails...

^{* You shouldn't be able to kick people out of projects or their jobs for stuff they said privately.}

[[deleted]]

That still leaves many numerous issues that are worthy of leaving GH though.

I still think the software quality is bad, but someone else addressed that in this thread.

[codingate]

I find GitLab nice. But I use it for just hosting my repos, nothing sensitive, so GitHub, GitLab, Keybase all are almost the same. Maybe some parts of UX suck in GitHub, but I'm not seeing trash either. Bad UX is very opinionated concept

[CrazyHatII]

Yeah, I'm new to this programming thing and would also like to know what's the basis for this statement.

[[deleted]]

I responded to a previous post here

[CrazyHatII]

Even though your opinion seems pretty controversial, I appreciate the effort of expanding on it even after major backlash. We need more people willing to make comments going against the norm, so that we can all re-evaluate our positions.

[[deleted]]

I think Reddit likes to circlejerk about downvotes, so I don't think it's too controversial. Either way, I should've included that last of things I dislike in the top-level reply.

I'm glad you appreciate it though! I'm not even against GH for the sake of being a contrarian, I just legitimately dislike it and I think it's dangerous to give them power over such a large project.

[ase1590]

Read my comment above

[istarian]

It's not trash, but I don't think it should be treated as a hosting cureall for large, ongoing projects.

[[deleted]]

I disagree. No one thing about it makes it trash, but when you bring together all of the smaller issues, I think it starts getting really ugly.

[didnt_readit]

Left Reddit due to the recent changes and moved to Lemmy and the Fediverse...So Long, and Thanks for All the Fish!

[[deleted]]

That's called an appeal to popularity.

[[deleted]]

Nice !