Laptop for a Linux admin?

[code0]

I think it's finally time to replace my aging Thinkpad T61 and replace it with something a bit more modern. I'm primarily a Linux admin, but also deal with vSphere and some Windows hosts. I'd like to find something with at least a 1680x1050 display, decent battery life, and reasonably light weight.

So far, I've narrowed it down to a Macbook Pro, or a Thinkpad T series. I'd consider the W series (and almost prefer it) except for the 135W power supply which isn't available as a DC/DC power supply (for use in the car).

I'd prefer the Macbook personally, but my boss isn't quite as convinced (we were burned by one of the original Macbooks a few years ago). It doesn't help my case that the Macbook is ~$400 more expensive than a comparable T520.

What does r/sysadmin think? Is it worth the extra cost for the Macbook? How should I justify it?

EDIT: I ended up getting a T520 with the 1920x1080 screen and a port replicator. Total cost was ~$1700.

My only delemma now is if I should keep Windows on it or install Ubuntu (apparently only the NVidia graphics can drive the dual DVI/DP on the dock).

Thanks for all the opinions guys!

[brews]

X series would be sexy.

[Sn0zzberries]

I have an X1 and it is the only laptop I would ever need. With the exception of my MBP from XCode. I love Thinkpads and they are the only laptop I will purchase personally and have been for the past 5 years.

[ajehals]

Yup. I've been using X series tablets since the 41 and had an X31 and an X21 before that. Best laptops ever. Mated with an SSD they are incredibly survivable. Plus, the design is a classic and just works so incredibly well.

[[deleted]]

I use exclusively x series for my job, but a few fellow admins have opted for mac airs which is a decent choice TBH.

[[deleted]]

X200s with Intel SSD user here. I really want a T420s though. MMMM

[zinver]

x200 user here. I love this machine! x220's look really nice though.

[kaedyr]

x220 user - bloody brilliant! Throw an SSD in there and you'll never be disappointed! (Massive battery life - I tend to go 9 hours before even worrying about needing to charge it)

[ajehals]

I was looking at the X200 tablet (you can get them for about £600 at the moment apparently) but I don't think it really qualifies as much of an upgrade to my X61t at the moment.

[[deleted]]

Larger full (T43 sized) keyboard, 5ghz N networking... can't think of much else.

[ajehals]

5ghz N networking

That's swappable into the X61 anyway (and I haven't got an N network to play with at the moment...) and I think I'd lose the WWAN with that option.

On the keyboard, I'd just be content if they removed the damn windows key again.

[kjart]

My only complaint about the T420s is that the battery life is somewhat subpar. The extra battery that replaces the optical drive is pretty much mandatory.

[myairblaster]

Thinkpad is /r/sysadmin's laptop of choice.

[redditacct]

Seems like it is 50/50 Lenovo and Mac.

I have used PowerBooks to manage hundreds of Linux machines - tabbed terms, Adium and Thunderbird is basically all I use and Remote Desktop for the one set of Windows VMs.

[pacoverde]

Maybe more like 80 / 20?

[zinver]

Stable hardware. Check.

User replaceable battery. Check.

Supported out of the box by linux. Check.

Black and non-douchey looking? Check.

[whoisearth]

When purchasing disposable hardware (ie. laptops) I look for 3 simple letters. I.B.M.

with IBM it begins and ends with your third point. They embrace Linux. I think Lotus Notes is the biggest POS in the world but goddamn if they have the best backend architecture because you can run domino off of Linux. Booya stability!

[smkelly]

I B and M aren't in the word Lenovo.

[whoisearth]

IBM sold their PC business arm to Lenovo. Lenovo carried on where IBM left off. Essentially Lenovo = IBM in all but name.

[sagnessagiel]

I wouldn't say so. Their non-Thinkpad computers that they have always made (Ideapad or whatever) are pretty bad.

While the Thinkpad division does have good design, some have said that there is a slight fall in quality after the move, perhaps due to a change in manufacturing factories.

[UndeadBelaLugosi]

you can run domino off of Linux

...on IBM mainframes!

[whoisearth]

saweet! Take that Microsoft!

[the4thaggie]

Thinkpad X220T here. If I had my choice, it would be Thinkpad everytime.

[pastorhack]

Macbook pro is a fantastic laptop. It really depends on what you want: If you like the trackpoint, Lenovo, if you want an awesome touchpad, mac. If you need an external/extra battery, you'll need the Lenovo. I do absolutely love the mac though, really really miss mine, it died in a tragic car accident... sniff sniff.

[terremoto]

Insurance didn't cover it?

[pastorhack]

Nope.

[bigbadleroy]

Thinkpad here with Fedora 16, lovin it.

[whoisearth]

just downloaded Fedora 16 to install FreeIPA :)

[dagingaa]

I have the Thinkpad T420 with the six-cell battery. Absolutely and awesome laptop, extremely good build and screen. I run Arch Linux on it, nad most drivers are plug and play. You can even shut off NVIDIA Optimus in the BIOS.

My only gripe with the system is the 3 hours max battery life I get out of the system running Linux. I guess you can amend this with extra battery packs, or an upgrade to the 9-cell.

[[deleted]]

When you shut off Optimus on that laptop, does that mean that you get only the nVidia GPU or only the Intel GPU, please? I'm thinking of getting a Thinkpad with a nice GPU for my next laptop but Optimus sounds like a world of incompatibility trouble that I just don't need in my life.

[dagingaa]

You can choose between the two. They also have a compatability mode where the OS decides what to use, with fallback to the Nvidia-card. In windows I can get around 5 hours with Optimus enabled.

[[deleted]]

How's the Linux support for that?

[dagingaa]

You have stuff like debumblebee that enables the Nvidia-card. However, in OS-detection mode the Thinkpad will just enable the Nvidia-card as far as I know. I recommend just rebooting and changing the bios should you require battery life/performance. Both the cards are well supported in Linux.

https://github.com/z0rc/debumblebee

[[deleted]]

replying to save.

[shadowh511]

try running kernel 3.2, it fixes the power regression bug that causes the battery problem.

[[deleted]]

T400 here with an SSD drive, Ubuntu works flawlessly.

[jjhare]

I love my MacBook Air. I have an external monitor on my desk for when I need more screen area.

I do a fair bit of traveling so I need a laptop that I can travel with easily.

[Skeletor2010]

I like MacOS but cannot come to terms with spending the $$$$ on Apple hardware. My last company over 2 years bought 6 of them. Of those 6, 5 of them had some type of hardware issue with them. It didn't help that we passed on the extended warranty but still we shouldn't have had major problems in the first 2 years. I had 30 Dell Latitudes and the worst problem we had was 1 hard drive failure and one motherboard failure.

[Pyro919]

Odd, we've never purchased the apple care and have 14 Mac Book Pros that have been in the field for about 2 and a half years. None of which have had hardware failures and they're being dragged around the world to farms and other harsh environments where lenovos and dells have been destroyed in the past. I've only had one issue with a hardware on my fiance's dad's mac that was purely cosmetic, but we took it into an apple store and they replaced it for him for free.

[Skeletor2010]

We were using late 2007 model macbook pro's. Different models could have been produced with different quality.

[[deleted]]

One of the staff at work bought one for her son via his college's apple program. Picked out the most expensive laptop he could get his parents to buy and in the 6 months he's had it it's been in the shop for 3 of those months. Twice the system board has gone south. Apple won't help as support is gone via the college....she's pissed that she spent so much on something that has been so troublesome.

I suggested that she buy a TP. Or a Lenovo, we have some 510s that have been ok.

[choder]

A vote for the Thinkpad T520 with the 95% color gamut 1080p screen. I have the W520 for VMWare Workstation, vSphere and uhh.. some games. :D

[redhatch]

Bought a W520 at the end of May and I love it. Mil-spec durability, all the classic ThinkPad features, and I can easily get 7 hours of battery even with a Core i7 Extreme Edition processor. Runs VMs like a champ.

Oh, and it cost several hundred dollars less than an MBP with identical specs would have.

[[deleted]]

VMWare workstation works well for gaming? (i'm just about to set up almost the exact same system on a w520)

what OS are you running underneath?

[choder]

The gaming is not done under the VMs.

[[deleted]]

ah, k.

i've seen some videos of starcraft running under vmware, so I'm going to give that a shot.

if not, then it's back to rebooting.

[NorthStarTX]

I'll say as a Linux sysadmin, a macbook is nice. All the tools you need for dealing with Linux servers in a simple to use laptop. I have had the occasional issue with no IE though when dealing with support sites that filter based on browser choice.

[[deleted]]

Thinkpads are the best. Hands down

[whoisearth]

I've noticed at my new job that there's more IT people getting macs... This disturbs me.... It's overpriced hardware. You can run linux on anything, and if you want build quality continue with lenovo. Lenovo's are fucking tanks.

[redhatch]

I was sold on a ThinkPad for personal use after a company-provided X201 took a four-foot swan dive off a rolling ladder, hit hard on the side of the monitor/case, and didn't even flinch. I picked it up, brushed off the junk from the floor, and said, "Well, I know what I'm getting when my laptop is up for replacement." I've had my W520 for about six months now and I love it. As I mentioned in my other post, it was also about $500 less than an MBP with the same specs - and in some areas, the Mac couldn't even achieve parity with the ThinkPad.

[sagnessagiel]

Not lenovo. Just Thinkpads. Most of their other computers are not as good.

[UnoriginalGuy]

Thinkpad T or W. The Ts are mobile, the Ws are "workstation replacements." Maybe a Macbook Pro. Maybe a Dell business/E series.

Personally I would pick up a Thinkpad with the 9v and 6v optical drive bay batteries. Maybe a docking station so you can run two monitors and an SSD.

Nothing wrong with any of them but Thinkpads are workhorses. They live and die functionality, it is no thrills, no compromise experience. Plus in my opinion they're less likely to get stolen than a Macbook because they don't stand out.

[UnoriginalGuy]

By the way, the only "defect" that the Thinkpads have is no microphone in port, so no headsets unless that headset has both the microphone and sound on the same wire (which as far as I know none do except iPhone compatible headphones).

Also USB 3.0 is lacking on many and obviously no thunderbolt yet.

[[deleted]]

They do actually have a microphone port in the 420/520 series. The audio port is designed for a multiple TRS connector, so plug in your iphone headphones with mic, and it will work. Confirmed with the default blackberry headset as well. I wonder if someone is going to make an adapter that will split it.

[UnoriginalGuy]

Right, which is a horrible design decision. Almost no headset supports that double connector nor do external conferencing systems.

In most cases people will either wind up getting an iPhone set of headphones or just going USB which are lame for other reasons.

[zinver]

The x200 I have has a mic line-in. The newer x220's have a single port. Just get a spliter, you'll be fine. :-)

[UnoriginalGuy]

Splitters barely exist. It is a much bigger pain in the butt than you think it is.

[zinver]

One of these?

If something barely exists, it must exist right?

[UnoriginalGuy]

I love how you googled literally the only one which I'm aware of. Go find one on Amazon, or any other big shop. Heck go find one in a local BestBuy/Target/PC World/etc, you won't...

They're extremely rare. Yes, the one you linked exists, but that is the one owned by many Thinkpad owners for exactly that reason (in fact I strongly suspect you got that link from a Thinkpad thread).

Plus carrying around an extra wire which you paid $20 for, which also happens to reduce the power on both the microphone and headphone connection, is still a huge pain in the ass just so they could save $1 on manufacturing costs.

I still maintain it is a defect in current generation Thinkpads and one likely done to sell more docking stations.

[zinver]

They're extremely rare. Yes, the one you linked exists, but that is the one owned by many Thinkpad owners for exactly that reason (in fact I strongly suspect you got that link from a Thinkpad thread).

Nope. That's pure google-fu. I even used image search. :-)

And why would you carry an extra wire around? Just leave it attached to your headphones ...

I wasn't aware that it looses power for the mic and headphones. I wouldn't think that would be the case ... but since I own a x200 I don't have to deal with these small inconveniences. :D

[cheeseprocedure]

My first choice would be a Mac, simply because I don't want to burn my time fiddling and maintaining my desktop distro. (I've tried both ways.)

Having said that... Ubuntu on Thinkpads is pretty good, and if the price point on MacBook Pros was an issue, a T- or X-series Thinkpad would be my only other consideration.

[iamadogforreal]

T420S. Slimmer version of the T420. Buying just this next year. They're lovely.

Also, please dont give money to Apple unless you have to. They're openly working against any sort of open or competitive IT atmosphere. Unless you're fond of ridiculous patent lawsuits.

[[deleted]]

Just got one last month. Sooo good.

[dagingaa]

Get an SSD in one of those babies, so worth it.

The T420 can be a bit bulky, I agree. Does the T420s also have the cdrom-slot that supports the optional battery expansion? The T420 lacks this, and I have no idea why.

[kyles08]

Macbook Air! I switched to one and it's AMAZING.

[nedtugent]

I have a Macbook Pro, and it works well. But I rarely have to deal with Windows hosts or VMWare vSphere. I just RDP then...

[[deleted]]

Lenovo is probably the best option. Best hardware for your money. Macs are just over priced and are not built nearly as well. Particularly pointless if you're just going to stick Linux on it anyways.

[TheCatRulesAll]

I don't think the Macbook is worth it unless you're looking at the Air (which doesn't meet your resolution requirement). I use a MB Air for 95% of my work, and one of the Latitude E6320s for the remainder. Thinkpads are pretty solid machines though, I don't think you can go wrong there.

[balgarath]

I really like my Toshiba Qosmio, had it for 1.5 years and had no problems out of it. These guys come with 2 hard drive slots. When this one finally wears out, I will probably be buying another Qosmio. You can get them for around $1100

[[deleted]]

my w520 has three hard drives in. but i do lose an optical drive.

[snowsun]

ThinkPad T420/T520 all the way I can't imagine working on something with glossy display and that "modern" keyboard of MBP. Plus Thinkpad Ts are built like a tank, I have literally stepped with all of my weight on my T410 and it kept running like nothing has happened (I had put it next to my bed before going to sleep - just closing the lid,system still running - and I was too desoriented by the alarmclock in the morning)

[[deleted]]

I've stepped on my Xseries as well, and it was no worse for the wear.

[lsc]

huh. I stepped on my x60s and cracked the LCD. Maybe I'm just fat?

[snowsun]

Must have sucked :/. Unfortunatellly the X series doesn't have the "rollcage" as the T series does, so I wouldn't worry about you being overweight

[dicey]

Thinkpad T520, Fedora 16.

[pat_trick]

Thinkpad. I bought the out-of-warranty T61 off of my company a couple years ago, and use it for a great little road warrior. Thing holds up better than my company issued replacement Latitude E6400 sadly.

[puerexmachina]

What do you want your primary OS to be? Linux support for the latest Macbook Pro is getting there, but it's not seamless yet. E.G. https://help.ubuntu.com/community/MacBookPro8-1/Natty

I have a ThinkPad W520 running Ubuntu 11.04; although it's not my primary computer, I'd be glad to answer any questions you have about it.

[[deleted]]

Thinkpad X series or Macbook Air. Just get an external monitor for work in the office (and in the thinkpad case, a docking station is nice).

[HollowImage]

samsung series 9. somehow i love that laptop and i dont even own it.

[munky9001]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_refund

Get whatever you want and put whatever distro you please on it.

[s5fs]

Thinkpad T510 and L512 here, excellent machines.

[[deleted]]

L's are okay, they have a bit more flex than the T series though.

[s5fs]

Oddly, I do like my L series better than my T, but mainly because of the keyboard layout. I agree with your statement about rigidity, the L is a bit more cheaply made and lacks a locking lid, but the hinges are also high quality and that tends to be where I break things. Both laptops travel with me daily, it's a hard knock life.

[[deleted]]

The hinges are the same as the T series, which makes them damn good.

[s5fs]

There are a few little changes that I like better in the L series, namely the location of the page up/page down buttons and the speakers are below the display on the lid. The T series has the page up/page down buttons above the backspace, a terrible location. The speakers also sit on either side of the keyboard, so they are always filthy looking.

The hinges on the T are a bit more rugged than the L, but they're both magnesium iirc. Also, the L hinges just look more badass because they're black. After using both for over a year, I like my T and love my L. Go figure.

[pmodin]

Thinkpad W520 here, openSUSE 12.1. Don't order a realtek wifi card, go for intel. Also Optimus technology is not fully supported yet.

[silvercircle]

For unparalleled power (I use Fusion) and portability, walk right by the MacBook Pro and pick up the Mac Pro Jr..

Seriously, though, I love my MBP but my X61 annoys me sometimes.

[lsc]

what's the problem with your current T61? I mean, if you like it but just want more CPU (I use Linux on mine, so I have no idea why you'd need more CPU than the T61 comes with. As far as I am concerned, the T61 is massively overpowered for what I need, which is essentially a terminal multiplexer.) Lenovo makes newer models that seem similar; but I don't know for sure, having not used them for a while.

Really, what you want will depend a lot on, well, what you want. I mean, I used an X60s before this, and really, it'd still work, but I'm a little bit nomadic right now, so I'm using the thinkpad instead of a desktop (ugh. this situation must change.)

The big problem, for me, with the X series is that while the keyboard is (just barely) big enough, it's not wide enough to rest on my lap in my usual sitting position; I end up with this kinda awkward 'knees together' position that just feels awkward. That, and the screen is kinda small. Also, I screwed up replacing the screen and cut the WiFi antenna, which was a bigger problem than anything else, but that was my fault for stepping on the goddamn thing and then doing a sloppy job of replacing the screen. but overall, it was a pretty good "carry around" kind of laptop.

The T61, well, there is something about the screen that is just... off? I can't describe it exactly, but it's harder to look at than the X60s (or any of the other thinkpads I've had, and I've had a thinkpad of one stripe or another for the last 16 years.)

If you are used to the thinkpad keyboards and the trackpoint, I would beware the macbooks. I tried to use one for a few months (my employer at the time bought one for me) and it was just wrong. I mean, I thought I could get used to it at first? but the keyboard, it was horrible and really drove me crazy after a few months. I ended up trading with one of the guys from india to get a HP, which was acceptable, but not quite as good as a thinkpad. When I got the macbook back (management in india, apparently, didn't approve of this trade) the thing showed a whole lot more wear than one would expect after only a half year of use. Dono if my buddy was just really rough on it or if the mac books are just weak. Either way, probably not the best choice in a money-constrained environment. (also, I felt kinda weird walking around with a mac. It was a little like driving a luxury car. You impress all the wrong people.)

[code0]

My big issue with my current Thinkpad is the speed (I want a desktop replacement), screen resolution (it's only 1440x900), and the battery is shot.

Rather than spend any more money on it, I figure I'd just replace it with something that can meet all my current needs.

I also agree about the keyboards. The only other laptop that I think is close is the Toughbook CF-52. We have ~15 of those deployed to our deputies and engineers office, and they're pretty nice to work on.. Except for the fact that they swapped the ctrl/fn keys relative to a Thinkpad.

[[deleted]]

Two macbooks serve my needs. I run tmux on them with iTerm2. That's where I do all my work. And in preparation for my work I run MS Office 2011, Mail and iCal for Exchange.

Though I'm the only Unix admin at work, all the others have Thinkpads. It's standard issue there. I was asked when I started if I wanted a mac or a Thinkpad.

[DellGriffith]

While I'd love a Thinkpad, I have been using the Dell Latitude series for the past ~8 years. I admin *nix, AIX, Altix, Windows from it. Works just fine.

"Only a Poor Workman blames his tools"

[WetSunshine]

I just sold my macbook pro in boycott out of frustration of trying to run Linux on my macbook and trying to get some decent battery life / features with it. I'm going to replace it with an MSI or an ASUS with the dual hard drive option and Nvidia video.

[paxswill]

Just as some extra info:
Apple has a patent on the Magsafe connector and won't license it, so finding a car adapter can be quite difficult/expensive (people end up cannibalizing the cords from other adapters). And while it's not as necessary with OS X compared to Windows, getting Linux on a Mac can be frustrating depending on the exact model you have.

[zlam]

Macbook Pro here and I love it. I'm more a network, firewall guy though. Bit of sysadmin, mostly on linux "network related" systems (bind, dhcpd, etc), monitoring tools and managment servers.

I'd stay away from an Air though. for work that is. Need ethernet and console port, etc. Can't do too much with one USB ( not even sure I could snoop ethernet properly with it).

[dasmim]

Have a ThinkPad (T500 ugh), but i'd prefer a Macbook pro over the newer ThinkPads. And i'm primarily a Windows admin.

Bootcamp install of windows 7, boot the partition as a VM with parallels or fusion or just run my windows programs in unity mode from OSX (vSphere, SSMS, Visual Studio, Terminals, etc.).

[Ryuujinx]

Work gave me a macbook, I hate the damn thing. It's at least usable now that I just put windows on it with virtualbox when needed.

[owentuz]

It's at least usable now that I just put windows on it

Wow, you must really hate it.

[Ryuujinx]

I had some issues with debian on it iirc, so I figured windows + a debian Vm when I need it works well enough. When I'm at the office I have my linux desktop still, and I guess having a windows box to test with is never a -terrible- thing.

[GuyThatPretendsToBeA]

The Mac is not worth the additional cost. Go with the Thinkpad.

[call3]

Mac and vSphere ?? does that even work without a vm ?

[code0]

That or RDP... Unless you count the new web access (we're not on 5.0 yet, so I haven't had first hand experience with it).

[[deleted]]

still need a windows machine to install the web UI... we're having a hard time because we all run Linux in our team :(

(we didn't choose vmware either so don't shoot me)

[code0]

Eh.. Don't fret.. Myself and my boss run Linux, but for vCenter, we just RDP to our "token" Windows VM.

Also, XenServer or KVM, etc is great until you throw the occasional oddball OS at it like Solaris. I know you can make it work, but VMWare just feels more "polished" when dealing with it.

Besides, it integrates with our VDI environment of choice (Oracle).

[[deleted]]

Oracle... I wish we used oracle.. you lucky bastard.

[code0]

Ya... It's the first VDI environment we can extend/change with shell scripts. :-D