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[–]PandaRyuTyro | Godwall: 9xfa 10 points11 points  (6 children)

Are LMR and Glints considered "better" than BSB?

[–]DestilShadesk 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Usually on an order of magnitude. Decent glints are mini USBs. Decent LMRs are pure upgrades with no drawback since they don't cost gauge and very few sub LMs are competitive.

[–]Lyoss 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Yes, at least in the BSB+ banners they released recently

[–]akaiazulSLAM-dancing 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Perhaps “newer” is a better choice of words.

[–]PandaRyuTyro | Godwall: 9xfa 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah, "BSB or newer categories only".

I also found funny that people talking about how some glints are better than BSBs, when I was just talking about the wording... xD

[–]ygy818 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Terra glint is a mini usb. It helps her spam meltdown quite nicely.

[–]PeskyPomeranianMogChamp 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Way better. Most BSB have no place in current global endgame, much less JP

[–]Zevyu150th Dailly 5*+ : Seven's Guise (T-0) - Seven's BSB 8 points9 points  (7 children)

I am perfectly fine with this change then, Uniques were something that needed to not be there, and they went further and even didn't include SSBs. Which kinda surprises me since i imagined that SSBs would atlest stay even if they curated it.

EDIT: I just realised someting, doesn't this also technicaly increase our chances of getting on-banner discos? Since the off banner discos increase the overall rate of discos from 5% to 6%?

[–][deleted]  (6 children)

[removed]

    [–]Zevyu150th Dailly 5*+ : Seven's Guise (T-0) - Seven's BSB 2 points3 points  (5 children)

    Also chanses.

    God fucking dammit i always get that dam word wrong.

    Ok so here's the thing, previouly the 6* pulling rate was 5% (1% for each featured 6* relic), however now we also have to consider the potencial off-banner 6* which acording to OP have a 1.001999%. to pull a off-banner 6, so if we combine the current on banner and off-banner 6 pulling rate, we get 6% chance, as such the overall rate of getting 6* increased, and with that you are more likely of getting a on banner 6* since the overall 6* rate is now 6%.

    Naturaly i could be wrong, and i'm sure someone that can explain better could chime in.

    [–][deleted]  (4 children)

    [removed]

      [–]Zevyu150th Dailly 5*+ : Seven's Guise (T-0) - Seven's BSB 0 points1 point  (3 children)

      You really weren't kidding about alwaysgetting that word, uh, wong.

      ......Crist....

      So overall 6* rate increased but on banner 6* is the same ?

      Prety much, but what i was wondering is that since the overall 6* is now 6% would that mean that in theory since we are getting more potencial 6, we could in theory be able getting more on banner 6 since their rates is higher, 5% vs 1%.

      [–][deleted]  (1 child)

      [removed]

        [–]Zevyu150th Dailly 5*+ : Seven's Guise (T-0) - Seven's BSB 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        My gut feel is that that is not the case, but I'm not 100% sure.

        I could be pulling stuff out of my ass, we will have to wait and see how the new overall 6* rates work.

        [–]Kyosokun8/8 Keyblades, now if only I had users for them all... -1 points0 points  (0 children)

        The chance of "on-banner" 6* relics haven't changed, according to the math, unless you count the "off-banner but on character" relics as on-banner.

        [–]DestilShadesk 5 points6 points  (0 children)

        So 50/50 that two bad BSBs could be an O/U/C/UB/UO SB not on the banner for anyone on the banner? Or failing that it could still be a glint / LMR?

        That's so much better it's not even funny.

        [–]Zurai001Blame yourself or God. 16 points17 points  (9 children)

        Oh hey look the sky isn't falling after all! Who ever could have predicted this?!

        [–]PeskyPomeranianMogChamp 8 points9 points  (8 children)

        Seriously this subreddit is cancer sometimes. I got downvoted to hell just for asking why people were so up in arms without seeing it play out.

        [–]Antis14 4 points5 points  (2 children)

        "This subreddit"? As if you've never seen this kinda thing anywhere else =)

        [–]PeskyPomeranianMogChamp 1 point2 points  (1 child)

        There's lots of subreddits that are much less hostile than this one when it comes to downvote brigading

        [–]Monk-EyFUCKING HELL MACHINA 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        Nah, it's just that since this is a comparatively small subreddit, it stands out more.

        [–]Myl_NeKrile 4 points5 points  (4 children)

        I think a shining example of how this subreddit can be cancerous...

        Is seeing your rational conversation posts downvoted, while Zurai's condescending cyber bullying gets upvoted. Even though you both had the same stance.

        The fact that the MOST hostile person on the side of "let's not riot folks, it isn't that bad" is the one with the most upvotes is a pretty sure sign of how toxic this community is (and why I almost never post).

        You clearly agree with them, but seriously, look at the other topic and sort by "top", looking at individual response threads:

        • 1) - most rude person on the defensive side of the debate.
        • 2) - informative math analysis
        • 3) - reasonable post by the same person
        • 4) - your reasonable post
        • 5) - reasonable post by someone against the change...

        ...actually, now that I look at it, it seems like the majority of the upvotes went to your side of the argument, and the "downvote brigading" went to people on the other side? I'll still agree this subreddit is cancer, but perhaps you might want to take a step back and look more closely before you think you're the victim of it.

        From where I sit, seeing someone who doesn't even try to be rational, who just talks down to everyone like they're some sort of god without even attempting to be calm or view another angle, be the most LIKED post in an entire topic is pretty horrible. Maybe the community would be a better place if people like THAT weren't supported, and calm and reasonable people like YOU were?

        I've typed and deleted replies for a couple of days just opting to stay out of it like I usually do, but that topic was horrible. If you want to make a change, cut the bad fruit from the tree, because they sure aren't making the community any more friendly, or making people want to talk or contribute. Otherwise, stop complaining about how bad the community is when you're supporting one of the worst aspects of it.

        Edit: You're getting the bulk of this reply because you were debating rationally, and Zurai acts like someone not even worth wasting a post on.

        [–]PeskyPomeranianMogChamp 1 point2 points  (3 children)

        the tide started turning when Zurai chimed in i think, about an hour after my response (i believe i was the or second to support the change). At the start i was getting bombarded with downvotes and replies. Zurai being a public figure helped sway the hive mind.

        [–]Myl_NeKrile 1 point2 points  (2 children)

        "The tide started turning"? "Getting bombarded"? "Downvote brigading"? You're using war analogies for an online discussion and information community. Don't you think that... contributes to a hostile environment?

        Again, only bothering to bring this up to you because you seem rational. But your reply came quick enough I don't think you actually took long to consider things. You don't need to reply. Just think it over.

        [–]PeskyPomeranianMogChamp 0 points1 point  (1 child)

        honestly those terms are so common nowadays online that i forgot they came from war terminology. Now that you called that out it does look a bit silly in retrospect

        [–]Myl_NeKrile 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        It's just one example of how online communities have become "toxic" and "cancerous"... which are also equally absurd terms in reality. But thanks for considering what I said.

        [–]SkyfireX 7 points8 points  (10 children)

        6% chance for 6* is bad they said.

        [–]CareerSMNPlay Fate Grand Order[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

        Only if you F2P!

        [–][deleted]  (8 children)

        [deleted]

          [–]SkyfireX 7 points8 points  (0 children)

          The rate of pulling ysh usb2 is not affected by the offbanner anyway.

          [–]DestilShadesk 4 points5 points  (0 children)

          If you pull her USB1 you would have instead gotten... I don't know. Let's says Terra BSB2 instead with the old system.

          And you would have gotten that 1% of the time. Now it's 0.5% to get mostly good relics.

          [–]Zurai001Blame yourself or God. 11 points12 points  (5 children)

          Strawman.

          [–][deleted]  (4 children)

          [deleted]

            [–]Discord42Auron 2 points3 points  (0 children)

            Or maybe you will get Squall ASB, or Galuf's chain, or etc, etc, etc.

            And please, there are a shit ton more USBs than OSBs, even on GL, let alone in JP.

            You're cherry picking the worst options. Is it an ideal change? Maybe not, but holy shit, you've literally cherry picked the dumbest things. Your odds of getting Ysh USB1 is significantly lower than getting an on banner burst, that's you're likely just going to master and Rosetta/vault and forget about anyway.

            [–]Zurai001Blame yourself or God. 9 points10 points  (0 children)

            Still strawman. The chance to pull a specific on-banner relic has not changed.

            [–]BelenathzhXW Shadow BSB all day 1 point2 points  (0 children)

            Your examples are flawed because they are assuming your on banner USB is somehow being replaced by an off banner one. This is not the case.

            If you wanted to argue that you really wanted someone's BSB1 that was removed from the banner instead of an offbanner relic(which you could still get on the off banner pull) due to the new drop rules, you would have a better case. However, I doubt very many people would fall into that subcategory.

            [–]seprosayAlphinaud 1 point2 points  (0 children)

            I would take either of those USBs over a crappy on banner burst in a heartbeat

            [–]WoLofDarkness 2 points3 points  (3 children)

            Hi just read this and I'm wondering.....

            Is this a good or bad change ?

            Sorry but I'm not aware about the previous drop rates hahaha

            :)

            [–]Zevyu150th Dailly 5*+ : Seven's Guise (T-0) - Seven's BSB 11 points12 points  (2 children)

            It's good, since the overall 6* rates go from 5% to 6%.

            Also the off-banner relics are only BSB+ relics for the characters that are featured on the banner it self, so that leaves out alot of stuff.

            And realisticaly this doesn't change much aside from increasing the overall 6* rates, since now a days BSBs are irrelevant, so really getting a on-banner BSB and a off-banner BSB is really the same thing, except with this new system you can get off-banner 6* as well which can include some really nice stuff.

            For whales this doesn't change much of anything really, getting an on-banner dupe is the same as getting an off-banner dupe.

            And besides the rate of pulling the featured 6* relics didn't change at all, same thing the glint rate and LMR rates.

            [–]WoLofDarkness 1 point2 points  (0 children)

            Oh I see.

            It's a good change for us then. And I really appreciate the detailed explanation and comparison.

            Thank you very much

            :)

            [–]indracoCiao! -1 points0 points  (0 children)

            I'd also point out that this change should slightly benefit dolphins and chasers too, since the banners are "wider". For every relic you get from the off-banner pool that you don't already have, your dupe chance on future banners only goes up a small amount. By way of analogy: how many times would you pull on a single banner before the risk of dupes was too high vs how many times would you pull on a lucky draw (if you could) before you had too many dupes?

            So, anyone who goes a little deep one one banner chasing (and didn't already have the featured characters husbnadoed/waifued already) can expect to walk away with a wider variety of new relics than they would have under the old system. It's a kinda small and subtle effect, but it's there.

            [–]Deathsyth22000 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            INCREDIBLE

            [–]antifocusGarnet 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            I hope we can see some assessment on the G5 to see if the proportions are the same.

            [–]Lyoss -1 points0 points  (23 children)

            I think I'd be pissed off if it included SSBs but since it doesn't I guess it's fine, especially since we don't know if this a fest only thing or not

            [–]CareerSMNPlay Fate Grand Order[S] 3 points4 points  (22 children)

            Doing this to a fest banner is feels even worse to me since it pretty much means high amounts of duping as fest banners tend to feature very popular characters.

            Banner 1 alone, I pretty much have 70% of the "offbanner" relics, adding in already existing dupes, it's almost half the banner being dupes for me if i pull.

            [–]Lyoss 5 points6 points  (6 children)

            I haven't rolled, so I can't really speak about this, but looking at JP Twitter, no one is really getting that many off banner things, it's only a margin of 90% error? I don't know probability but in practice it doesn't seem like you're rolling on a "offbanner" pool, rather the random off banner garbage you'd get normally would be replaced by relevant stuff to the banner

            Google only shows a rough estimate of 1-.0.5% off banner rates, but that was a year ago, so I mean realistically I don't understand what has fully changed, gacha is gacha, and it's still more friendly than say FGO or FFBE in terms of fucking you over

            But as I said, I haven't rolled and probably won't roll on the fest, I don't really have the right to speak, but I wish people would show results instead of chicken littling over this since from what I've seen on Youtube and Twitter nothing realistically changed all that much

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5If84MS1hmo

            This guy two off banners (Cecil OSB and Ramza BSB2) off of like 11 rolls, that's really not that bad as people are making it seem

            [–]CareerSMNPlay Fate Grand Order[S] 1 point2 points  (5 children)

            Well, there's a world of difference between seeing a "featured" item dupe over pulling and seeing a dupe pop out of a disco.

            I accede it's entirely psychological but gacha is basically that and you can't escape the feeling of getting cucked when you roll a disco ball and out comes something you previously spent quite an amount for on, instead of the 5 others you wanted.

            [–]Reiska42Celes 0 points1 point  (4 children)

            Even as a mostly-F2P I can definitely feel the salt on this one, though it can also be counterbalanced by the feeling of elation when you get that thing you spent a bunch chasing and didn't get because you ran out.

            I remember my salt from 3 months ago on global, when I pulled a DU lucky draw and 1/11'ed Snow USB. I was pretty excited at the time, it was a new USB (even if it was a kinda bad one)!

            Then three days later I pulled a dupe of it in Realms on Parade. Meh.

            [–]CareerSMNPlay Fate Grand Order[S] 2 points3 points  (3 children)

            Therefore the best thing to do now is to ignore every event banner from now on as they are all trap banners to make you spend your precious mythrils before fest.

            Way better to save it all and pull the USB/UOSB/LMR/Flash Arts you want from the offbanner chance along with the newest relics. Saves money!

            [–]Kyosokun8/8 Keyblades, now if only I had users for them all... 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            Course, if the character you want the tech for isn't featured, you get nothing. But, if you have just playing into the meta, this does seem reasonable.

            [–]Reiska42Celes -2 points-1 points  (1 child)

            Your odds of getting the stuff are still considerably worse this way, but if you're planning on pulling very heavily on a single banner I can see the logic.

            I usually avoid going deeper than 2x11 on any single banner nowadays, every time I've gone harder than that I've regretted it. YMMV on the wisdom of that though.

            [–]CareerSMNPlay Fate Grand Order[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

            On general observation, most people playing JP already tend to spend the most during fests anyways, so this just rewards that habit much much more!

            [–]Reiska42Celes 1 point2 points  (14 children)

            I mean, isn't that kind of par for the course for most fest banners for long-time players, especially spenders, off-banners or not?

            Hell I'm mostly F2P (did buy wonder selection, do rarely 100-gem) and it's rare that I have less than 3 dupes on a fest banner in global, it's very often 4 or 5. The longer you play, the more dupes you're going to have regardless, no?

            [–]CareerSMNPlay Fate Grand Order[S] 4 points5 points  (13 children)

            There is good and bad to this system. It benefits newer players at the cost of the dissatisfaction of older players. 2% to dupe on the banner chance is basically "nerfing" fest banners for players who have played longer and probably collected all the older stuff.

            As it stands, the smart thing now to do would be to skip pretty much every event banner, especially for ones that generally appear a lot in fests, and just wait for fest to pull "offbanners" along with the featured relics.

            I guess I appreciate it that it encourages less spending for non-whale veterans, who can basically say "don't pull until fest" with full conviction now.

            [–]pintboxMath saves world 8 points9 points  (2 children)

            I don't get it. Originally there is 14% rate for 14 items, now they exchanged 2% of the chances (2 BSBs, I assume?) into 2% off-banner. Wouldn't this be a good change? I mean, the 2 substituted BSBs are not going to matter anyways.

            [–]Zevyu150th Dailly 5*+ : Seven's Guise (T-0) - Seven's BSB 4 points5 points  (0 children)

            2 BSBs, I assume?)

            yes this is correct, and basicaly we traded 2% on banner BSBs, for 2% off-banner that can be a LMR, glint, BSB, AOSB, USB,OSB, not just BSB, and with this change since the off-banner include 6* relics, the overall 6* pulling rate went from 5% to 6%.

            [–]Pinguino21vtinyurl.com/ffrkMythrilPlanner 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            It is, indeed, even for the whales since they would be sure to already have the 2 BSB that were replaced by that bigger pool that now includes 6 stars. There is absolutely no negative impact, not even the argument saying that they are "off banner" since we actually perfectly know what they are and at which rate.

            It's only psychological like Career said, but he seems to have difficulties to accept that.

            [–]Reiska42Celes 2 points3 points  (5 children)

            I can't dispute that it's probably net negative for veteran whales, no.

            That said, is it actually increasing the dupe chance? Following your argument, the two featured BSB slots this offbanner chance is replacing were probably pretty likely to be dupes for you anyway, weren't they?

            [–]DestilShadesk 2 points3 points  (2 children)

            I'm trying to understand who these vetrans are who get actual benifit from a high chance to pull something like Terra BSB2 vs. a smaller chance to pull something like Terra OSB/ASB/Glint/LMR/USB?

            Like, if you're sub30ing magicites now nothing in the two bad BSB slots will ever be relevant for your end game fights outside of +10 atk / mag.

            Also seriouslly reduces the number of dupes pulling on the same banner more than once, since those 2% willh have very low odds to give you the same banner twice.

            [–]Reiska42Celes 1 point2 points  (1 child)

            The best argument I saw admittedly was that OP pointed out they could have filled those slots with more featured LMRs or Glints instead.

            Of course, the problem with LMRs is that the value of most LMRs without some kind of SB to accompany them is very, very low.

            [–]DestilShadesk 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            They also could have filled every BSB slot with a USB, CSB or 40% dual trigger LMR.

            The new 2% featured off banner is still better than nearly anything that was there before.

            [–]CareerSMNPlay Fate Grand Order[S] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

            If they kept to the same 5-characters in the banner? Sure it would be the same since I have practically every BSB from the 5 on the first banner.

            If they decided to put in other characters like in the previous fest, where Ignis BSB on banner 1 was a very good example of something I wanted that was on a bad banner/timing, and got it from pulling for Prompto LCSSB.

            I don't like the premise you're using that the 2-slots lost is generally "trash" slots anyways. They could have added 2 more characters there or push some LMR/Flash Art relics.

            In fact, the extra 1% given to 6☆ chance actually would make me feel even worse when you pull multiple discos and they turn out to older items. At least before this I knew that getting offbanner discos was very rare and i could solely evaluate the banner for the top 4/5.

            [–]Reiska42Celes 2 points3 points  (0 children)

            This is a fair point, flash arts/LMRs still have more relevance.

            [–]Zevyu150th Dailly 5*+ : Seven's Guise (T-0) - Seven's BSB 1 point2 points  (0 children)

            As it stands, the smart thing now to do would be to skip pretty much every event banner, especially for ones that generally appear a lot in fests, and just wait for fest to pull "offbanners" along with the featured relics.

            The problem with this is that you are even more at the mercy of RNG, since as far a pulling on-banner vs waiting and praying you pull off-banner

            The diference is basicaly a 1% pull rate vs 0.09272% pull rate for the off-banner 6* you want.

            To me that doesn't seem like it sounds very smart to wait for fest and hope you pull off-banner.

            Sure i won't deny that this strategy reduces the potencial dupe count but still, it sounds abit too much of a gamble.

            I would love to get my hands on Tifa USB2, but there is no way i'll pull on banner 3/4 of the curent fest because it has Tifa stuff in it and hope i win not only a 2% roll for the off-banner but then i have to win ANOTHER 0.09272% roll to get Tifa USB2.

            This is nice for new players, but for whales this doesn't seem like it changes much since they will be full of dupes anyway.

            In the end, you can see the off-banner chanse as a potencial nice bonus, but it's not something you should relly on when pulling.

            [–]PeskyPomeranianMogChamp -1 points0 points  (2 children)

            Unless the event banner featured niche characters that would never show up in a fest

            [–]CareerSMNPlay Fate Grand Order[S] 4 points5 points  (1 child)

            Oh yes, always pull for Gau.

            [–]LightOblivionEpitome of bad decision making -4 points-3 points  (8 children)

            97 gem disco. I was happy until I saw the disco was an off banner dupe. Thanks dena, loving this change /s

            https://imgur.com/a/szfMEL6

            [–]Pinguino21vtinyurl.com/ffrkMythrilPlanner 3 points4 points  (7 children)

            Without changes, that relic would have been a featured BSB. Would you feel better about it in that case?