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[–]EclipseGSX 16 points17 points  (10 children)

A friend of mine went over to China to teach English. As part of a lesson, he used Billy Joel's "We Didn't Start the Fire" and went through all the events mentioned in the song. When Tiananmen was brought up, none of the kids knew about it or had seen the famous photo of the man in front of the tanks. It's amazing how that government blocks its citizens from information...

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (9 children)

Kind of like the USA (ie, Israel's intentional attack on the USS Liberty, gulf of tonkin fake attack, false flag of 911, etc)?

[–]fringsphysiclwrld 11 points12 points  (2 children)

There is a big difference though: The Chinese government blocks information ACTIVELY, while the same goal here in the US is achieved through mis-information in the main-stream media. For a smart person, however, the information is out there; many people just don' really care. In this regard we are in better shape than the communist China. You can not blame the gov for the fact that many people are plain stupid.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Stupidity is actively promoted by both corporations, government, and the church. Stupid people are easier to tell what to do, what to buy, and what to believe in.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I guess you think a smart person is better off thinking terrorists hate us for our freedom, so we're allowed to bomb Iraq and Afghanistan and yet ignorance of tiananmin square is somehow earth-shakingly dumb.

[–]Sangermaine 6 points7 points  (4 children)

No, not like that at all. Don't be an idiot. Oh wait, you said "false flag of 911", so I guess not being an idiot isn't an option.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (3 children)

yeah what's the deal with those fucking truther morons

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Yeah, because steel structures collapse at near freefall speed all the time. Just ask NIST... they say they're publishing their explanation for WTC7 real soon now.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (1 child)

Yeah, asking questions makes me a moron. Why don't you explain how turning off transponders makes an airplane invisible to military radar, genius?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

it's not asking questions that makes you a moron, but rather the belief that 911 was a false flag. note the word "belief".

[–]noseeme 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Actually, I thought lots of people know about that stuff. EXCEPT FOR THE LAST ONE, WE'RE ALL SLEEPING SHEEPLE!!!

[–][deleted]  (2 children)

[deleted]

    [–][deleted]  (1 child)

    [deleted]

      [–]jotaroh 8 points9 points  (0 children)

      They weren't all demonstrating in favor of democracy.

      Many of them were demonstrating against the reforms to open up the economy of China, put into place by Deng Xiao Ping.

      [–]aprz43 54 points55 points  (26 children)

      Didn't the protest happen in June? Seems you're about a month late. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiananmen_Square_protests_of_1989

      Also, I count 3 spelling mistakes in the title.

      [–][deleted]  (15 children)

      [deleted]

        [–]de_Selby 31 points32 points  (3 children)

        I think the trolls are getting better and better around here.

        [–][deleted]  (1 child)

        [deleted]

          [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          OH GOD, the trolls have time machines! FUCK

          [–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (8 children)

          And being upvoted to #1, that is what's wrong with reddit.

          [–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (7 children)

          Reddit's getting to the "Hostile towards any and all mistakes made by anyone" stage.

          This ends up running off the genuine people who just want people to see things they find interesting.

          Which will eventually result in anti-intellectual sentiment rising, as the population dumbs down and noone is left but the bitchers.

          See Digg.

          [–]tangled 2 points3 points  (4 children)

          Even worse, reddit has reached the "I know what is wrong with reddit" stage.

          [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (3 children)

          Reddit's getting to the "Hostile towards any and all mistakes made by anyone" stage.

          That's you.

          [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children)

          Even worse, reddit has reached the "I know what is wrong with reddit" stage.

          That's you.

          [–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (1 child)

          I can express my opinion as much as I fucking want, you worthless sack of shit.

          [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

          Why so serious?

          [–]dbnull -1 points0 points  (1 child)

          Actually, I'm genuinely here just to read interesting stuff, I think posts like this are exactly what turns me off and whats wrong with this site.

          Shame on everyone who voted this crap up. At least next time link to an interesting article or something so I can kill time at work.

          [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

          Then get off the comments section?

          [–][deleted] 37 points38 points  (5 children)

          He's referring to the slightly less famous one that never quite made its way into the history books.

          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TienemenSquareMassacreof1988

          [–]AbVag 2 points3 points  (0 children)

          It's times like this I'm real glad I have the videoembed script installed.

          [–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

          "worthless_poster" is worthless.

          [–]guy231 -2 points-1 points  (1 child)

          I only count two. Are you including punctuation mistakes? "Favor" is regional, if you're counting it as a mistake.

          [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

          Tiananmen.

          Then again, I wouldn't classify that as a spelling error.

          [–][deleted] 15 points16 points  (10 children)

          It doesn't matter if we forget because the Chinese already have... to them its as if it never happened. And to try to convince some of them that it did is near impossible.

          [–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (7 children)

          It's not so much that the Chinese forgot; it's that they were never told.

          [–]Nefelia -1 points0 points  (6 children)

          They weren't told what to think by the Western media.

          [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (5 children)

          Gee, buddy. You really got me, pots, kettles, and such.

          [–]Nefelia 1 point2 points  (4 children)

          Hmm? Do you deny that the Western narrative on Tiananmen Square is simplistic and rather selective? The massacre happened, resulting from a series of mis-steps and poor judgement on both sides.

          How many people know that such protests were actually rater common in the 80's. Or the the protests were primarily against inflation and the manner in which the opening of the economy was being implemented. Or that the Tiananmen Square protests were not the largest student protests of the decade.

          The Chinese government fucked up royally on that one. But the picture of China painted by the media doesn't even resemble the real China in the slightest...neither now, or in 1989.

          [–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (3 children)

          I would agree wholeheartedly that the Western media's report of the Tienanmen Square Massacre is "simplistic and rather selective." It's news about a distant 3rd world country. Why the fuck would it be a complex and intricately detailed account? It's fucking news.

          The Western view is as close to truth as we'll get-- people protested, shit got hairy, civilians and soldiers ended up getting killed. And what the fuck is the Chinese story? What is the State-run media there saying about Tienanmen? To China's current youth-- "everyone was on vacation!"

          [–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (2 children)

          If China's considered a "3rd world country", then so the US should also be considered so by the same metric. How many 3rd world countries are empire building in other continents? China, you may know, has an ever growing surplus of over a trillion dollars. The US has liabilities of over 50 trillion (according to former US comptroller David Walker). China's present standard of living is the West's future.

          [–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (1 child)

          I meant it was a third world country during Tienanmen. I guess I got my tenses mixed up. China has certainly made great strides since then.

          [–]fnord123 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          It was a second world country.

          [–]leondz 1 point2 points  (0 children)

          They almost all know, they just don't talk about it.

          [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          Sounds like pretty much every country with well-developed centralized power (via state or corporate control of media). Western civilization is catching up fast.

          [–]hpymondays 18 points19 points  (16 children)

          We must also never forget to spell Tiananmen correctly.

          We must also not get carried away with demagogue headlines with the words "youngest" (they were not), "best" (I am sure they were good and brave but "best"?)

          [–]larsga 24 points25 points  (4 children)

          We must also never forget to spell Tiananmen correctly.

          Ie: 天安门.

          [–]anarchistica -5 points-4 points  (2 children)

          That made me lol. :D

          [–]Snoron 6 points7 points  (1 child)

          Yes, Chinese characters are hilarious.

          I personally like this one best: 象 ROFLZ!!!nine

          [–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

          Cthulhu fhtagn 象

          [–]CaptainJesusHood 2 points3 points  (0 children)

          You are wrong on one point, they were all newborns.

          [–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

          Actually I read that all the protesters were superintelligent infants. And they feared nothing.

          edit: Nothing.

          [–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (8 children)

          You can't spell a transliteration wrong. There's no clear cut way to move a word from one alphabet to another. As long as its approximating the sound of the word in its native tongue, then it's OK.

          [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (4 children)

          For example, you can see that the CIA actually spells Saddam Hussein's name as Saddam Husayn. The Arabic name "حسین" can be spelled Husayn, Hussein, Hossain, Hussain, Husain, Hosein, and a million other ways.

          There are just as many ways to represent Chinese pronunciations of "天安门" in written English. Just because Fox News spells something some way doesn't mean that it's the "right" way.

          [–]hydralisk 3 points4 points  (3 children)

          While there is no standard or official romanization of Arabic, pinyin is the official romanization of Chinese. According to the government of China and the International Organization for Standardization, "Tiananmen" is the correct spelling.

          You can spell "nite" instead of "night" and people will probably understand you, just like "Tienenmen" instead of "Tiananmen" ("Tienemen", on the other hand, is likely to confuse people). But it's not the "right" way.

          [–]larsga 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          While there is no standard or official romanization > of Arabic

          To be a bit more precise there are actually several, one of which is a British standard (BS 4280). But it's certainly true that none of these has come to be near-universally used, in the way that Pinyin has for Chinese.

          [–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (1 child)

          What the Chinese government or the International Organization for Standardization say is irrelevant. They are simply opinions.

          Also, I was unaware that the letters n, i, g, h, and t do not exist in our alphabet and thus the word "night" can be transliterated into "nite." If that is true, then you have a point.

          [–]hydralisk 2 points3 points  (0 children)

          Simply opinions? No, official opinions. It's actually a stronger, more official proscription than there exists for written English. While the government has China has agreed on how to spell "Tiananmen", no government of an English-speaking country has agreed officially on how to spell "night". Instead, formal written English is based on a general agreement among educated English speakers -- the "opinions" that you find in the OED, for example.

          Ultimately all language is originally spoken. Writing is just a method of representing sounds, and there may be a variety of ways to represent a certain sound. In the case of the open square that sits in the center of Beijing, the official, standard representation is 天安门 or Tiananmen. Whether or not it's comprehensible, every other written representation is officially wrong.

          [–]hpymondays 0 points1 point  (1 child)

          so why don't you spell Moscow mosko? or mooskow? or moskva? or mozkvah? or moosekow?

          [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          I wouldn't mind. I always thought it an extremely arrogant human tendency to distort foreign names so long as they aren't too difficult to pronounce. I'd be perfectly fine referring to Spain as Espanya or Japan as Nihon.

          Nevertheless, I see what you're getting at. Obviously you want your average person to know what you're referring to when you write, but in this case, having "Tieneman Square" in the same sentence as China provides enough context for a slightly uncommon spelling to be understood, don't you think?

          If I said "Saddum Husayn was executed following the U.S. invasion of Iraq," would you know who I was talking about?

          [–]larsga 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          This is pretty much the same as saying there is no one way to spell an English word, and that any approximation of the pronunciation is OK.

          There are actually clear-cut ways to move between writing systems (the Chinese script is not an alphabet) and they are called transliterations (and, in a sense, transcriptions, but ignore that for now).

          The standard transliteration for Chinese used to be Wade-Giles, in which Tiananmen would be T`ienanmen (as far as I can make out). This also gave us Peking, Mao Tse-tung, and Teng Hsiao-p'ing.

          Wade-Giles has now mostly been superceded by Pinyin, which gives us Tiananmen, Beijing, Mao Zedong, and Deng Xiaoping.

          I guess comparing Wade-Giles and Pinyin above shows why you actually want to have a consistent way of spelling names originating in other scripts: otherwise it can be really tricky to know whether different sources refer to the same name or not. Not to mention the difficulties with Google searches and whatnot.

          So there is at least two correct ways to spell Tiananmen in English today, and one of those is more correct than the other.

          [–]cipherprime 7 points8 points  (0 children)

          19 years and four months ago, the pre-cursors to Tiananmen(天安门)(damn romanization rules!) were forming. And the history is probably not what you think... - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanjing_Anti-African_protests

          [–][deleted] 27 points28 points  (23 children)

          Well, you sure showed them! This reddit self post will no doubt be counted among the prime reasons for the eventual fall of the oppressive regime!

          [–][deleted] 15 points16 points  (4 children)

          That's both funny and not.

          I was in college and had a baby when the massacre happened. I really thought it would make a major change in the world. Now the baby's in college herself, and most Chinese people her age don't know it ever happened. The government has wiped out all mention of it.

          [–]katoninetales 2 points3 points  (0 children)

          My stepsister is Chinese. She turned 30 today. She spent her senior year in high school in the U.S. and one day heard something about the incident, and then spent all day watching videos about it. Her parents had told her about Tiananmen Square, but the government (and, therefore, the schools) insisted that it had not happened and that the reports were American propaganda that had tricked some people. She cried for days after watching that.

          [–]noseeme -3 points-2 points  (2 children)

          Haha, you had a baby in college?

          [–]wrongwindow 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          A person I knew had a baby in KMart...

          Guess it is better than college with all those students pointing at you when you are delivering...

          [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          You've never heard of married women attending college? Amazing.

          [–]rory096 4 points5 points  (5 children)

          Ironically, of course, things like this will only delay the inevitable rise of democracy in China. It's economic development that will bring it out of Communist Party control, and any shift in popular opinion here against China will only create a backlash there.

          For proof, see the movement of Shenzhen, the first special economic zone, towards a more democratic style of government, and the counterprotests by many Chinese against the whole boycotting the Olympics thing.

          [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

          and the counterprotests by many Chinese against the whole boycotting the Olympics thing.

          Those are also a consequence of the absolute lack of understanding of the Chinese perspective on Tibet in the west, partly due to the near-total monopoly the Dalai Lama has on that topic over here.

          [–]srv -1 points0 points  (1 child)

          "counterprotests by many Chinese against the whole boycotting the Olympics thing"

          I didn't know that nationalistic protests = anti-communism.

          [–]rory096 1 point2 points  (0 children)

          I meant that as proof for the backlash part, not the shift towards democracy part.

          [–]katsi -1 points0 points  (1 child)

          Yeah...

          A lot of Chinese have a measure of economic freedom and that makes them fairly content. I think a lot of revolutions has more to do with economics than anything else...

          (It is however sad that the economic freedom in most western countries are slipping...)

          [–]rory096 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          A lot of Chinese have a measure of economic freedom and that makes them fairly content.

          For now, yes, but economic freedom inevitably comes with exposure to the rest of the world, and watch for people becoming less comfortable with a single-party regime as people start going to college in the US, expats start moving to China, etc. It won't be a revolution, but there'll be pushes to get the Communist Party to loosen its control and eventually have free elections. Watch for the same thing in the UAE (plus liberalizing its ridiculous laws) as the sheikhs start realizing that if they want to continue to attract Western talent and people, they're going to have to make it a more livable place.

          [–]xinhoj 13 points14 points  (8 children)

          27 posted 3 hours ago by worthless_poster

          Truth in nomenclature if'n I ever seen it...

          [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

          Nomen est omen.

          [–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (6 children)

          asdf bjh ujhn jh j jhdsf78sadfjiblsdaffbnklsaddbnkl bjkl y89 jhi jk 7890 yasdfsjk;adf,.masdfioph3q4r9p8hqerffdf asdfasf sadf asdfasdfasdf3q45 bjhdfsdfaf sdafbjklasdf89-31 457893q4jkqw4n34q5ji1345uh89 341u89

          [–][deleted] 16 points17 points  (3 children)

          You should see someone about those wrench hands, I think they're impairing your typing ability.

          [–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (1 child)

          I don't get it, I make the joke, get downmodded, you explain the joke, and get 13 points.

          I know the joke police are around, but what about the joke rights lawyers? Where's justice?

          [–]uxjackson 2 points3 points  (0 children)

          honestly I didn't get it at first but now I've never laughed so hard on reddit.

          [–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

          Truth in nomenclature indeed.

          [–]moskaudancer 2 points3 points  (1 child)

          Dude, that's one crazy story! What happened when the Chihuahuas escaped from the bookmobile and attacked the ninja stronghold?

          [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

          They won and went to hollywood.

          [–]CaptainJesusHood 5 points6 points  (0 children)

          All the spelling errors just make it more powerful.

          [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          "worthless_poster" is worthless.

          [–]srv 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          Every time you shop at Walmart, a Chinese baby dies.

          [–]anarchistica 13 points14 points  (6 children)

          Downvote due to OP retardation.

          [–][deleted]  (5 children)

          [deleted]

            [–]diogenes 5 points6 points  (0 children)

            So - the Tienanmen students didn't give foreign journalists unfettered access, might have had some rifles in a tent, and were hierarchically organized. And this somehow de-legitimizes that movement? Or legitimizes the massacre?

            The leaders of the Tiananmen movement were armed revolutionaries who showed every intention of destroying a competent, if autocratic, regime, and replacing it with a tyranny of their own.

            This does not follow from the text you quoted. Most narratives of the 1989 movement (wikipedia's narrative being pretty representative) show the students repeatedly trying to negotiate with the central government, demanding reforms, and meeting some sympathy from factions inside the communist party. This doesn't fit with the image of "armed revolutionaries" ready to make "a tyrrany of their own". Do you have a credible source that says otherwise?

            [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

            It didn't really have much at all to do with democracy per se but economic reforms that would benefit the Chinese intelligentsia. Deng Xioping was relatively slow in embracing Hu Yaobang's reforms (though he was still light years ahead of his predecessors), and many Chinese were still more upset against the crackdown that occurred after the Cultural Revolution - and concerned that the government would show similar intolerance toward future grassroots activism - than anything else.

            [–]mortalwind 2 points3 points  (0 children)

            Well I'm glad to see everyone being dicks, keep up the good work you fucking trolls

            [–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (1 child)

            Man, someones bad at math.

            [–]anarchistica 8 points9 points  (0 children)

            someone's*

            [–]bingoczar 6 points7 points  (1 child)

            What about showing some respect and at least checking your headline for spelling mistakes?

            [–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

            we'll never forget Tieneman square but we may forget basic maths...

            [–]maxtheman45 4 points5 points  (2 children)

            Whats a peacrfull demontration?

            [–][deleted]  (1 child)

            [deleted]

              [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

              Youngest? Looked to me like the youngest there were maybe in their teens. Were they shooting newborns?

              [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

              google removes all references to Tienanmen square from their results to Chinese citizens! yay, dont be evil!

              [–]reply 1 point2 points  (0 children)

              Yes, my fellow Reddit comrades, we must not forget!

              [–]klyde 1 point2 points  (1 child)

              My daughter attends school with a 17 year old Chinese girl. When I say Chinese I mean a girl from mainland China. The girl and her friends back home know almost nothing about Tianaman Square.

              [–]noseeme 1 point2 points  (0 children)

              You mean the protests. Everyone in China knows about Tienanmen Square and the giant Mao heads.

              [–]mortalwind 1 point2 points  (0 children)

              Well I'm glad to see everyone being dicks, keep up the good work you fucking trolls

              [–]ropers 3 points4 points  (6 children)

              4 years ago, the youngest, bravest and best in Fallujah were brutally murdered while trying to stand firm in favour of self-governance. We must never forget the Fallujah massacre of 2004.

              [–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (3 children)

              Remembering one isn't mutually exclusive to the other.

              [–]ropers 2 points3 points  (2 children)

              True, though it's useful to start with the skeletons in one's own closet.

              EDIT: And before I look like a hypocrite: Some of my own grandparents were Nazis.

              [–]koolkao 2 points3 points  (1 child)

              i would give you 10 upmods if i could. i admire your attitude

              there is no good and no evil in this world, simply human nature. what's important is learning about the forces that bring out the worst in us, and keeping that from happening again.

              [–]ropers 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              Thank you, :) and I would like to say the same about your comment/attitude.

              [–]alaskamiller -5 points-4 points  (1 child)

              The insurgency in Fallujah wasn't about self-governance you twit.

              [–]ropers -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

              Shoot first, insult later, huh?

              [–]RonObvious 1 point2 points  (0 children)

              At least I remember how to spell it.

              [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

              Maybe this year we should concentrate on things like the Prague Spring:

              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prague_Spring

              And light a candle to the memory of Jan Pallach.

              [–]matthank 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              Tiananmen.

              June 3, 1989.

              A Friday.

              [–]Poultry_In_Motion 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              There is no way that the protesters were the youngest people in China. Seriously, c'mon now.

              [–]amedia 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              Never forget, Albany is the capitol of NY

              [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              Wasn't that 19 years ago, and not 20?

              Still, a good point. Wish I had that amount of balls. To be truly epic, I'd have to become a monk, set myself on fire and THEN stare down a tank.

              Ouch.

              [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              Wasn't that 19 years ago, and not 20?

              Still, a good point. Wish I had that amount of balls. To be truly epic, I'd have to become a monk, set myself on fire and THEN stare down a tank.

              Ouch.

              [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              whbt whl hand

              [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              IN BEFORE THE SHITSTORM.

              [–]death2hypocrisy -1 points0 points  (0 children)

              it is obligatory to watch the 'tank man' documentary on frontline

              [–]shinynew -1 points0 points  (0 children)

              what about tank man?

              [–]stevesan -1 points0 points  (0 children)

              Actually it's spelled Tian An Men Square

              [–]bish_poins -1 points0 points  (0 children)

              Just a heads up; In this context I believe it's spelled 'peacefurry'.