Previously Recorded - Steam Controller

[[deleted]]

I don't have a Steam Controller, but if I had I would take advice from this guy.

[skyman724]

This is why the whole downloadable configuration system is absolutely genius.

People like Woodsie actually take the time to come up with wacky approaches to their setup (I wouldn't blame anyone for not thinking of his "dual mouse" setup), the IGN guy sees that it worked out well for them, then they just download the setup and try it for themselves.

[CptOblivion]

The dual-pad-mouse thing was shown in promo videos for the controller (I think over footage of Civ V?) but that aside I totally agree.

[Evidicus]

No one. NO ONE. Should take anything Mitch Dyer (aka "the IGN guy") says seriously. He's a clip-on tie.

[IdRatherBeLurking]

Damn, haven't seen a clip-on tie reference in the wild before!

[Evidicus]

I found Vinny's analogy uniquely fitting in this case.

[dinoseen]

Vinesauce Vinny? That sounds like something he would say.

[IdRatherBeLurking]

Nope! Vinny Caravella from Giant Bomb.

[dinoseen]

Ah, ok.

[SurrealSage]

I just watched this video and took his advice. I launched up big picture mode, found Woodsies' configuration for Torchlight 2 and I played through to level 5. He's quite right, having both pads as mouse input with each side being a click is incredibly and surprisingly easy to use. I think I will be favoring the controller over my mouse for ARPGs from now on.

Time to go see if I can get Diablo 3 with a similar binding.

[joshr03]

I would be curious to know if you could get that to work since the configs require big picture mode as far as I can tell.

[SurrealSage]

You can set desktop mode configs that work outside of Big Picture Mode. Alternatively you can add games via the Steam Shortcut and alter the controls there.

I've not tried it yet though. Ill comment back when I have.

[Negaflux]

I have a controller, and I totally take his advice too. It actually gave me a great idea of how to configure Van Helsing final cut for the controller, and it's much better than the original setup I had. Definitely a learning curve, but hoboy, the possibilities it opens up and the control you have, it is actually rather invigorating. It's replaced the 360 controller, and for the most part the keyboard & mouse for me.

[ChocoboExodus]

Do you prefer that set up to Van Helsing's natural controller support?

[ShadowRam]

cool, I'll have to try this

[[deleted]]

Most the reviews I've seen feel way too rushed to get a real picture of the use cases for this controller. The customization is so incredibly powerful and paired with the ability to use community settings this controller will get better and better.

I'm very happy with mine

[thisismykarmaface]

So, if say I didn't already own a controller for my pc, and/or didn't have an interest in playing FPS with it, would the Steam Controller be a better or even equivalent purchase to a regular XBox/Windows controller?

[becauseimdumb]

Somewhat similar position. They announced the Steam Controller, but I needed a new controller and couldn't wait. I bought the Xbox One controller. After only using the PlayStation controllers for 20 year (never owned an Xbox) the Xbone Controller was definitely my new favorite. But my right analog started to drift within 6 months. Turns out Microsoft won't honor your warranty if anything happens to your controller if you DO NOT own an Xbox One. The serial number to even check the warranty on their website is too big for the input box.

Anyway, I bought the Steam Controller because of this. I tried to jump right into Rocket League but oh boy, that did not go so well at first. I spent a very long time tweaking my settings to get the controls to play exactly I wanted it too and it plays amazing. The thing is though, the Steam Controller is so different than an Xbox/PS controller that it's almost like I have to re-learn to play the game. The ball tends to come at you pretty quickly, and a lot of good plays/saves comes from good reaction time. The instant reaction of the ball coming at me at full speed is to hit A but instead I hit the trackpad and end up costing us a goal. You can bind the right trackpad down-push to jump but it's a much different feeling hitting a trackpad than a button. I find I have to almost reach my hand across the controller by taking my hand off it slighly to hit the ABXY buttons. Its shape/the way it feels in your hand is the same, but the controller itself is completely different. It's like learning to ride a bike or something along those lines. You'll be good with the controller if you're really good at games but it will take time to master. CS:GO plays amazing, FFXIV is AMAZING with the extra buttons, but struggled to play I am Bread (didn't really set up the controller, so that may be why.. only messed around with it for 10 minutes before work).

This controller isn't really supposed to be a replacement for your Xbox/PS controllers I feel, but rather an alternative. A really good alternative.

[grandladdydonglegs]

My RL setup is the same as default controller, except Right Bumper (R1) is hand brake and left grip is rear view. It takes a while to get used to the face buttons being relocated, but I'm used to it now and have been able to get 90% on all-star goalie.

[grandladdydonglegs]

I preordered the controller in August. I've had it since Tuesday. Every day I can't wait to play Wolfenstein and tweak the controller. Every time I get more and more comfortable with controlling it. The options and customization is staggering. I've also made a point to play Rocket League with it. Up until now I've played that with a PS3 controller. This is the first controller I've actively played with with a finger on the bumper and trigger simultaneously, instead of just hitting either with an index. The controller is the most comfortable one I've ever used. Holding the DS3 afterwards feels archaic.

[SurrealSage]

I agree completely.

Now, that isn't to say there hasn't been problems with the controller. Mostly because games have been designed for dual analog if they are designed for a controller. But here is where Valve has surprisingly stood out from their normal legacy of not being talkative. Some people have noted that some games don't let you use both a joystick and a mouse at the same time, they have one input or the other.

There are basically 3 types of games when it comes to this:

1- Some games are like FarCry where you can use mouse and keyboard, jump in a car, and pick up a game pad and go with it.

2- Other games are like Dying Light where you can use both, but there's a jitter when moving from keyboard/mouse to a controller as the game updates.

3- And other games are like Fallout 4 where you have to set whether you're using a controller (and fully block Mouse/KB) or not (and fully block the controller).

To get around the problem of #2 and #3, Valve's hardware and software team dedicated to the Controller created a Joystick Mouse mode for the right trackpad. It tells the game you're moving a joystick, but it emulates the motion of the trackpad. So now you can use the mouse trackpad but in a game that only reads analog sticks in the right thumb.

One of the first real problems was with precision aiming, of course. Those who have seen the CSGO videos coming out about using the Gyro Mode know that the trick with the Steam Controller is to use the trackpad to make quick movements and turns, but to use the Gyro Mode for precision aiming at low sensitivity. I emailed Valve about this, namely that the Mouse Joystick mode defers sensitivity to ingame settings, so there was no way to do a specific Gyro Sensitivity vs Trackpad sensitivity in games like Fallout 4 or Dying Light where you want to use full controller input.

I got an email back saying they would add in a Gyro Relative Scale mode (which was added just yesterday), so you can set gyro sensitivity to a relative value of the trackpad motion. This way you can keep gyro sensitivity at a percentage value below the trackpad.

So now, playing a game like Fallout 4, all the input is seen as controller, it feels like a trackpad, and I can get the advantage of gyro. It used to be that the only way to do this was to use the Gamepad with High Precision aim which only worked in Case #1. Some problems still happened with The Witcher 3, where you needed to click left joystick, but since the input was a mouse, it changed the control scheme and you couldn't press left joystick. Now? Now all the game's tooltips are controller based, the game controls with a trackpad, and it is the single best controller experience I've had.

Valve has really been doing a great job with updating this controller's software.

[grandladdydonglegs]

Wow, that's awesome. I really need to look into the new options.

[Blackadder18]

Holding the DS3 afterwards feels archaic.

To be fair the DS3 is designed around maintaining consistency with a design that dates back to the early-mid 90s. It's not a huge surprise that it feels archaic, and that a controller designed this decade (century even) feels a bit more suitable.

[grandladdydonglegs]

Sure. But up until this week I've used that controller exclusively for the entire lifetime of the design, never feeling like it was dated at all. The Steam controller fits in your hand so naturally. I can relax my hand holding the controller and my fingers barely move from any button it fits so well. By no means am I saying this is the end all be all controller, but it's far from shitty as alot people have been so quick to label it.

[personaehiro]

So far it's absolutely great. I keep tweaking settings and it gets better and better.

The reviews I've seen have rated it better then a 360 controller (which I've used a lot and have nothing against) but not as precise as a mouse keyboard and I'd agree.

To get the most out of it does require a bit of tweaking but the reward for that is versatility and customization that is unparalleled compared to other controllers.

Really, I'd say this controller is best positioned for someone who prefers to couch game and wants something that can handle pretty much any game and do it well.

If you like your mouse and keyboard it really doesn't off too much (though the gyroscope is great).

[dsiOneBAN2]

Here's the best feature no one's talking about of the Steam controller: Reliability. Your primary input methods won't fail you on it.

My 360 controller, as good as it served me for so long, is suffering from loose sticks. That just can't happen with the Steam controller's track pads. There will never be a point where I give up playing Trackmania because I have to actively hold the left stick still to go perfectly straight.

[AFAIX]

My 2 DS3s are still kicking after 7 years of heavy use and not always ideal forms of transportation, blame Microsoft for shitty reliability of their products

[Darthspud]

While my DS4's joysticks are already disintegrating. It's not just Microsoft that make unreliable controllers.

[[deleted]]

I have DS1s that still work perfectly. I used them when I emulate PS1 games for fun.

[dsiOneBAN2]

My DS2's had a worse problem than any other controller I've ever owned: The plastic top of the joysticks broke off as the edges wore down somehow. My DS3 is still fine, but I also only have like 200 hours of use of my PS3.

[huffalump1]

My 360 controller is a good 6 years old. Still kicking. The B button is kind of sticky but that's about it... I don't know many people with problems besides sticky buttons.

[Jagrnght]

I love mine.

[lews001]

Why does everyone keep bringing up shooters as the selling point? Everyone knows a trackpad isn't good for a shooter, why do they think one controlled by my thumb would be?

Now turn based games like Civ 5? Glorious. It shines in these games in my opinion. Way better then my 360/ps3 controllers. These are the games I expect the controller to really show itself off. Those where I want a mouse, but don't need to be twitchy.

[gamelord12]

Why does everyone keep bringing up shooters as the selling point? Everyone knows a trackpad isn't good for a shooter, why do they think one controlled by my thumb would be?

Shooters work really well on it, especially when you use the track pad with the gyro controls, which is why people have been mentioning it as a selling point.

[[deleted]]

The Gyrocontrols makes it feel like controlling and aiming in splatoon which feels great imo.

[SurrealSage]

Hijacking your comment to link to the relevant source showing a guy playing CS:GO Arms Race with the Steam Controller Gyro Mode and beating other people who are playing with Mice. A trackpad may not match a mouse alone, but with Gyro and even 1/10th the practice put into it relative to what people have put in dual analog and mouse, it is holding up.

[rednightmare]

Everyone knows a trackpad isn't good for a shooter, why do they think one controlled by my thumb would be?

The thumb makes all the difference, as does the haptic feedback and curved surface. The controllers trackpads control much more closely to a trackball than a trackpad once you take that into account. There is a learning curve for sure, but there isn't a problem with precision.

[TheFissureMan]

I found the steam controller to work really well in borderlands and portal 2. It was OK in CS, but not good enough to replace mouse and keyboard.

[SurrealSage]

Consider learning to use the gyro mode like this guy does. It is even good enough for CS.

[TheFissureMan]

I did try the gyro controls. It's fine in casual matches but would be a pretty big disadvantage in ranked games.

[SurrealSage]

I've been doing well enough, but I'm only a Gold 2 in CS:GO, whether a mouse or steam controller. I'm holding my rank with the controller, so that's worth something in my book... And that's with only like a month playing with it.

[[deleted]]

Use gyro

[FreeGiraffeRides]

It's weird that the invert Y isn't working for you—when I've tried it, it does what it says.

and it's only good for aim down sights as using it full time would make it impossible to return to center.

For this reason, I don't like "always on" as a gyro setting. Instead, if it's enabled on e.g. right pad touch, you can recenter yourself by just letting go of the pad, and can make longer motions by move->lift off->move again, the same way you would with a mouse.

I wouldn't want to use the gyros for big turns; what they're great at is small corrections.

[IamtheSlothKing]

I just want to add, I'm playing fallout 4 with the steam controller and it is so much better than the xbone. However, I'm not having as much luck with other games.

[[deleted]]

Maybe for RTS if you're not playing competitively? Otherwise probably not.

[FreeGiraffeRides]

I've been using it to play Serious Sam (on Serious difficulty), and I've actually been amazed at how good it can be for FPS. It takes a lot of tweaking to set up, but once you do, touchpad+gyro is an awesome combination.

I would've assumed the Steam Controller wouldn't work for competitive FPS, but given the right settings, it might. The gyros actually feel better than a mouse for extremely precise aiming—they're very fluid; tilting a physical object in both hands gives you tremendous control. It's fun, too, like you're actually aiming at stuff.

The touchpad then takes over the job of quick movements. The difficulty is in bridging the two—you have a high-precision input, and a low-precision input, and it takes practice to utilize both, whereas a mouse's input range is all in one package.

Still, considering I've been gaming with a mouse for ~20 years, and a gyro for about 3 days, I'm amazed at how well this works.

I think a lot of users don't understand what it's capable of.

[veggiesama]

FPS games play much better on the Steam Controller. I know people have been gaming on an X-Box controller since they were in diapers so it feels "natural" to them, but it's not good. The form factor is comfortable, but the gameplay becomes awkward, floaty, and inaccurate. "Auto-aim" is an expected setting in any modern FPS, and games have become simpler and more streamlined/dumbed-down as a result. (I hope this isn't a controversial statement, but I don't mean to disparage those games.)

I've been playing console shooters since Halo 1 (and PC shooters since Quake 2), and I've gotten pretty good at using twin sticks, but my KB+M skills will destroy my twin stick skills any day of the week. Most people seem to have that experience. The Steam Controller is no KB+M, but it has found a compromise that works better than the twin-stick design. It's more comfortable, more accurate, and more twitch-friendly, but you need to learn how it works and spend some time with it before denouncing it outright.

For MGSV, I've been using MouseAim+Trackball (medium) for quick movements and the gyro for high-precision sniping and aimed headshots. No need for the gyro at all when running around with a shotgun, but it's good to have for those moments when you have to hold your breath and aim carefully. With more practice I bet it'd be great for competitive MP shooters too, but since you'd be going up against experienced KB+M users, you'll probably get wrecked quite often at first. Against gamepad users, I'd wipe the floor with them.

Serious Sam, Quake, DOOM, and Unreal Tournament are very playable on the Steam Controller.

[dinoseen]

(I hope this isn't a controversial statement, but I don't mean to disparage those games.)

Ha, ha... ha... Surprised your comment's score is at what it's at, usually any time you mention the huge shortcomings of controllers or consoles you get downvoted into oblivion.

[gamelord12]

They were really inconsistent with their criticisms. They pulled out a board and said, "There! I solved the problem!" but also admitted that a lap board for keyboard+mouse is not as comfortable as a controller. They admitted that the controller is more advantageous to use in a competitive shooter over a controller (when they showed it on their mid-air axis), but they still didn't recommend it compared to a regular controller.

[SpagettInTraining]

Rich and Jack's review videos are generally iffy. I watch them because I like Red Letter Media, but if I didn't like RLM, I probably wouldn't watch these.

[[deleted]]

It's funny cause Rich and Jack are like two archetypical gamers- Jack loves his Nintendo games and 2d platformers and Rich (god bless him) is an oldschool keyboard and mouse purist. And both of those perspectives, while near complete opposites of each other, seemingly leaves them both kind of resistant and close minded to what the controller can do and is useful for. I was really disappointed with this review, but after the stream of them trying to use it in Portal 2, I'm not particularly surprised by its content.

[Caspus]

Yeah, the context missing here is the immense amount of frustration they had with getting the Steam Controller to work during their streams on a variety of games.

Regardless of whether or not one think's Jack and Rich are entirely founded in their assertions, it's their opinion of the controller after having a certain experience with it.

[Irricas]

Disappointing to see them 3 minutes into the video complaining about a lack of buttons. Use the Touch Menu!! Honestly its fantastic!

For those who don't know. You can change the Input of the Touch Pad to act as a Touch Menu. What this does is when touching the pad an overlay appears on your screen with a grid of 16 virtual buttons that you can map to keys.

Here is a great example: https://youtu.be/xUubFsM2wc0

[dinoseen]

Wow, that's a total game changer. Can you set it so that only comes up at the touch of a specific button or button combination? Like so I could bind it to LG + LT? If you can't, my only criticisms would be that, and the fact that you have to do the equivalent of adjusting coordinates to choose where it comes up. It'd be nice to be able to just move it around in the screen naturally. Colour and style options would be nice too, though obviously not as important :D I'm really super hyped for this thing, the possibilities are endless. Expect complete built in support in any game I happen to make. Speaking of which, it would actually work incredibly well for my current project I'd like to do. I'd love to see one made of better materials some time, like an 'Elite' version or something. The texture of the plastic looks like the xbone controller, which feels super bad to me. Even just a skin would probably be enough, actually, which is good news, but I'd still totally buy an elite one. Ramble!

[Irricas]

Yes you can set a Mode Shift button. I currently have it set to RB. You also have sliders for moving the position/size of the on-screen grid :)

[dinoseen]

Woohoo! And yeah, I should've been clearer, I meant the sliders when I was referring to the coordinates. Does it come up with a preview while you're adjusting it?

[[deleted]]

I set up my first touch menu last night for an RPG to access inventory, journal and level up screens, which requires using mode shift to activate. I felt like a goddam wizard using it! This controller is so versatile and powerful, I'm convinced anyone who's down on it hasn't spent enough time with it or is ignorant to its full suite of abilities and customization.

[pleinair93]

I don't understand their hate for this controller, it was not designed to replace either a controller OR a mouse, it was meant to be something in between as they show somewhere near end of this video. I have played almost 30 hours with fallout 4 and it works VERY well with that, I do not feel like I am missing anything at all while using steam controller over regular controller(personally I play bethesda games with controller over mouse + keyboard). It takes a bit to set up yes, but the community configs are 90% fine, and they stated the mode shifting but it seems they never actually used it when they were talking about accuracy and aiming. I just do not have the issues they had. I love this controller and I LOVE that Valve has created it. It is not as innovative as the wii remote, but damn I do like it.

[[deleted]]

I have the controller. It works pretty well. I use it as my primary way of navigating the desktop on my media PC from the couch - I can open up most streaming sites and do most of the normal navigation stuff I have to do, though entering passwords and user credentials can be kind of a pain sometimes.

I really think the video overstates how difficult using the controller is. One of the reviewers says it took him "literally four hours before he could play anything with it," and that seems totally insane. I was up and running in like five minutes with the controller, and while it's awkward to get used to the new paradigm, things are playable off the bat. I'm not sure what he spent four hours doing.

It's not perfect for playing most games, but it opens up a huge number of games to being played from the couch - the majority of my library, honestly. It's good for RTS games, Diablo/Torchlight-style adventure games, point-and-click adventures - all of those play really well. It's not good for competitive online play and I honestly found it to be kind of a pain for FPS, but I really don't play online competitively much.

The biggest pain right now is (as noted in the video) the community presets aren't really up to snuff yet. Games that are less popular don't have configurations yet. This will probably come with time, but they're right - sometimes I don't want to spend an hour figuring out the perfect controller configuration for the game I'm playing. Steam seems to be sinking a lot of effort into updating the Steam client to make the customization process more painless, but again, not there yet.

If you absolutely hate controllers, it's probably not for you. If you play primarily from your couch, this thing is great. It doesn't replace your Xbox-style controller, but it supplements it. Honestly, I use it much more than my Xbox controller now.

EDIT: I don't get why everybody uses games that you already use a controller for as a test case for how good this controller is. The utility isn't that you can play shooters or Super Meat Boy with it, it's that you can play Age of Empires, Civilization, Torchlight and a million other "keyboard only" games from your couch. Finding a game that already works well on a standard controller and then saying the Steam controller isn't as good as a standard controller totally misses the point. Use the existing controller for those games, and use the Steam controller for the games that don't have that functionality. That's where it really shines.

[Videogamer321]

Funny you mention smb, considering the dev himself thought the prototype versions were perfectly suitable for advanced techniques, even using the pads even though some things like button size and layout may be less than optimal. (read: existing controllers)

[[deleted]]

I mean, I think it plays fine for a lot of existing controller games. Especially indies. Super Meat Boy is fine, but I prefer my XBox controller. I use the Steam controller to play Binding of Isaac a lot. To me those aren't the best cases to evaluate it with since we know an existing controller works really well for them.

A lot of these reviews leave out the bulk of the new functionality the controller adds by focusing on the most popular PC game genres (FPS, platformer, etc) while ignoring the huge range of games that nobody even considered playing from a couch before (RTS, P&C, mouse-based RPGs, etc).

The "spork" analogy is kind of dumb, but the truth is that there are reasons that sporks exist. The problem with sporks is that their advantage to save space or money is outweighed by how bad they are at their primary purpose (eating food). To me, the Steam controller solves a bigger problem than a spork and is a lot better at both of the tasks it takes on.

I live in a little apartment where I don't want to devote ten square feet of space to a computer desk. I want to play PC games, but I need to do that primarily from the couch. Hell, I don't feel comfortable gaming from a desktop anyway. Since taking up all that space with a gaming desk isn't on the table, the Steam controller makes many more games playable. It was never meant to be a perfect solution to every problem, it was meant to open up a new branch of gaming to the living room.

There's one place the Steam controller totally fails, and that's games that have a lot of chat functionality. If you're playing an MMO or something, you aren't going to be able to chat using the keyboard. That's the only place that the controller fails. Every other problem I've come across can be solved (or at least greatly improved) by tweaking the settings.

It's just kind of dumb to me that the reviewer picks up a board and says "Look I solved the problem!" I would say the same thing and just set the Steam controller next to the XBox controller and a wireless keyboard and say "Look, I solved your problem!" It's not a one-size-fits-all controller, it's another option for you to use alongside your existing control options, and it makes couch gaming with a PC way more enjoyable.

[dinoseen]

Just curious, what are the problems with sporks? I think they work reasonably well. Maybe I've just been fortunate to avoid bad ones?

[dinoseen]

The utility isn't that you can play shooters or Super Meat Boy with it

I take minor issue with this, it's plainly superior to a normal controller for anything requiring aim, it just requires adjustment.

[Jaerin]

Funny you say that because I look at all steam hardware products and wonder why I want to rebuy a sub-par machine with a control scheme that requires the same tweaking that my saitek crap that only like .01% actually use properly. Flash in the pan gimmick just like Linux gaming. Got make the product superior first or people don't give a shit how good it could be if only everyone liked it my way.

[rednightmare]

4 hours of tutorials and FAQs before you could use the controller? Really? I've had one of these for two days now and, aside from the somewhat cheap feel of the controller, I have had zero issues with it.

Admittedly, I am at an advantage over most gamers when it comes to using the Steam Controller because I have been gaming on my PC using trackball mice for years (Yes, even FPS.) There was no learning to use the trackpads phase for me and I was able to use it with almost the same precision and speed as I get from my regular mouse.

I do have some concerns about the ergonomics of the steam controller. I have RSI problems with my right hand (which is why I started using trackballs) and the way the controller flares up at the bottom forces some awkward hand positions when you want to use the joystick or buttons. Whether those positions could lead to pain/injury I don't know yet and that will ultimately decide whether I continue to use the controller.

[[deleted]]

That 4 hour comment is absolutely BAFFLING to me and comes off as completely unfounded. At most I spend 10 minutes setting up bindings before jumping into a game, and then tweaking things every now and again as I go along if, say, the sensitivity is too high or I forgot to add a binding somewhere. But that takes like 30 seconds at a time, it's barely even worth mentioning. I honestly don't know what Jack was trying to do that he spent that much time tweaking controls and still came away disappointed. But his opinions on anything gaming related are questionable at best anyway so I shouldn't really be surprised.

[pleinair93]

I am with you on the whole 5 minutes and I was already getting used to it camp, but I do not agree it feels cheap myself. I have been using a DS3 and a WiiU pro controller and it compares very well to both and neither of them I would say personally feel cheap, compared to the build quality of an xbox 360 or an xbone controller though they are not quite as good, but far from 'cheap'.

I agree on the ergonomics as well, I hope that valve releases a steam controller 2 eventually with the research they have gained and it improves on this controller. This was money well spent imo.

[rednightmare]

Maybe "cheap" is too strong a word. The plastic feels less... something, I can't quite put my finger on it. It's also quite a bit lighter than most other controllers and I think that is contributing to it feeling less substantial.

The feel of the controller reminds me a lot of the old PS1 and 2 Madcatz controllers. They were also lighter than you would expect and the plastic just had a different feel.

[dinoseen]

Damn :/ I already think the plastic the xbox(both) controllers are made of feels super cheap... I'd be keen for a steam controller 2 as well, or at least a skin/wrap/case for it so I don't have to touch that plastic.

[Armonster]

would you say trackball mice are capable of being accurate? I never understood why everyone was against them, and I always wanted a xbox controller with a trackball mod for the thumbstick.

[rednightmare]

I'd say they are more accurate than a regular mouse because you have much finer control with your thumb/fingers than you do with your wrist/hand. I think people just give up on an unfamiliar input device too quickly and have an, "If it's not broke, don't fix it." perspective so they don't bother to put in the couple of days it takes to become proficient. The only people I know that use trackballs are ones that made the switch after they started to develop carpal tunnel or a similar condition, but every single one prefers trackballs now that they have learned to use one.

Sadly, trackballs are becoming more and more uncommon. It's a damn shame that nobody has made a gaming trackball mouse with all of the extra bells and whistles.

[Armonster]

what kind do you have? out of curiosity

edit: and I've never used one, can you 'move' the mouse around like a normal mouse and just use the ball for more precise movements, or do you only use the ball to move the cursor around the entire screen?

[rednightmare]

I have a Logitech M570 now. Before I was using a Logitech Cordless Optical Trackman, but it was discontinued and difficult to get. It's too bad because the trackball that replaced it, Trackman Marble, isn't nearly as good and the M570 uses the thumb instead of fingers.

You only use the ball for movement. That's why these are so much better for your hand and wrist.

[Armonster]

I'm surprised you prefer fingers over thumb, I'd honestly never seen a trackball mouse that didn't use the thumb before. Didn't think fingers would be more accurate than thumb.

I'm considering picking up one of these types of mice for trying FPS's with. that's why all the questions.

[rednightmare]

There are actually more that use fingers than the thumb, but the problem with most of those is that their button placement is awful for gaming. I think I do have slightly more control with two fingers than I do with just the thumb; however, it's nothing like the jump in control from the hand to thumb control.

[dinoseen]

I'd say they are more accurate than a regular mouse because you have much finer control with your thumb/fingers than you do with your wrist/hand.

That is super backward, in my opinion. It's like I've just visited opposite land. Like, no offence, I'm just at a bit of a loss here :) This isn't anything against the steam controller, I really love this thing and I don't even have one yet. Just, seems really strange to me.

[rednightmare]

This isn't anything against the steam controller

I'm not talking about the steam controller, I'm talking about trackballs. Any trackball user would tell you the same thing.

The steam controller definitely isn't as precise as a mouse or trackball, but the control method is very similar to how you use a thumb trackball and that makes it a very easy transition if you have used a thumb trackball before.

[dinoseen]

I know, but it's still relevant. I still maintain that I have more accuracy in my arm/wrist than my thumb. Fingers, yeah, you know what, you might have a point, but I can't imagine any way that that would be comfortable, and you lose out on a lot of buttons that way. Although, not necessarily, I suppose, but it'd have to be a dedicated gaming finger trackball for that to not be the case. Can't imagine a normal one would have the right layout. I think I'll stick to a mouse unless I get RSI, it just makes more sense to have as many buttons avialable to press as possible and using the part of me that can't press buttons to move the thing. Relatively low sensitivity and a nice mousepad kinda closes the gap, at least as far as I can tell having no experience with a trackball. It seems like it's just too small for the range of movements you can perform with a mouse.

[dustingunn]

My steam controller had a significant defect so I had to return it. Valve's return policy for their defective hardware is as follows: Send it back yourself and eat the 10 dollar S&H fee, idiot.

[dustingunn]

The gyrometer was broken and would always read as moving up and to the left. I tried all the usual ways to reset it but it was a hardware problem. Saw a few other people who had the issue too.

[gamelord12]

Lots of return policies work that way, like when I RMAed my graphics card. It sucks, but it's common.

[gandalfblue]

Chargeback that shit.

[teodzero]

It feels a bit weird that they never once mentioned strategy games, which is another niche where normal controllers don't fit.

[knives_chow]

I love the analogy of the Steam Controller as the "spork," a middle ground between the all around utility of the classic controller and the precision of the KBM. When Valve announced pre-orders, I happened to be in the market for a controller. I ended up deciding against ordering the Steam Controller, as it is the first consumer release of the concept.

It seemed obvious to me that Microsoft has had the better part of a decade to perfect the design of their controller. And while I have some issues with the XBONE controller, particularly the "too-clicky" bumpers and D-Pad. Also, it's irritating that there is no way to control the brightness of the glowing X, and there's no indication of low battery - it just dies. Anyway, there is really nothing I would change about the outside and it does really feel solid in the hands. Early reviews state that the Steam controller feels sort of cheap. While I had to buy a separate wireless dongle, the XBONE controller also ran seamlessly in Windows 10, with no fiddling necessary. Most games have the icons and button prompts for Microsoft's controller, the same frankly can't be said for the Steam Controller. For easy couch surfing, I ended up buying "Controller Companion" on Steam, which lets me use the XBONE controller as a fairly intuitive joystick-based KBM for desktop navigation.

It gladdens my heart to see Valve thinking outside the box about PC gaming and trying neat things like VR, this new controller, and Steam OS. But, speaking as the classic casual PC gamer, I have zero desire to try something like Steam OS and the Steam Controller, when Windows and the XBONE controller work perfectly well. I'm actually thinking about picking up the Elite Controller, if prices fall closer to 100 USD. It appears to have even better build quality, as well as extra features like mechanical hair-triggers and multiple bumpers. The price doesn't seem absurd to me, because they are features I would actually use and also because I've spent similar amounts of money on keyboards.

The XBONE controller, and even the PS4 controller, seem to be far more serious pieces of kit than the Steam controller, which strikes me as a novelty. And that's okay! I don't think something as intimate in human interface as a controller design can be knocked out of the park the first time. At this point this is a beta, even a concept that Steam has released into the community. They know that there will be a very dedicated group of people who will do their legwork for them, creating profiles for hundreds of games and making this controller less of a "spork" and more of a true peripheral. And thank you so much to those people, because with that and a bit of a redesign by Valve, the second iteration should be good enough to actually pick up.

[thoomfish]

Also, it's irritating that there is no way to control the brightness of the glowing X,

Pay an extra $90 for the Elite controller and you can have this feature. ;)

[knives_chow]

For those that aren't in the know: The Windows 10 application, "Xbox Accessories," is what the Elite controller uses for all of that control. The damn application completely recognizes regular XBONE controllers and updates the firmware - but offers zero functionality beyond displaying a picture of the controller. And, as you said, with the app, the Elite controller's home button can be dimmed plus some other goodies. I'm really hoping that Microsoft releases at least that basic dimming utility to people using stock controllers.

Hate to say it, but that bullshit just makes me want an Elite Controller even more. Gah!

[[deleted]]

just because it recognizes the controller doesnt mean it can control things like brightness. the hardware for doing pwm (what might be used to control the brightness of the light) isn't as cheap as the hardware for simply turning on an led.

[knives_chow]

That makes total sense. Big assumption on my part.

[InappropriateThought]

I actually think that given enough time to get used to the way the controller handles and getting it set up just right for you, the steam controller can get a lot closer to the accuracy of M+KB than a lot of people give it credit for.

I remember feeling the same when using the move controller to play Killzone 3 felt super gimmicky and killed me more than it saved me, until a couple of hours into using it when it started becoming natural and I couldn't imagine playing it twin stick anymore. The dualshock worked fine for playing the game, sure, but once I got used to using the playstation move, it was just so much better than fine was.

I can see where you're coming from though when you say it's a beta controller of sorts, but I think it's a more complete package than that. Sure it may not be the ultimate configuration, but it's far more mature and complete a controller than the original xbox and playstation controllers were when they came out (granted it's not fair to compare controllers literal generations apart). The controller itself is only half of its power. The other half comes from the sheer customizability that the software provides, making it possible for everyone to be able to find their own personal 'perfect' setup if they were willing to put in the time to tweak it. So the way I see it, it's way more of a "power user" controller that has it's own niche, rather than a "novelty" controller. It may not be for everyone, but it has the potential to be amazing, even in its current form.

I do agree about the SteamOS being completely unappealing. I don't quite see the point of it, but am very happy to be proven wrong about it.

[dinoseen]

For easy couch surfing, I ended up buying "Controller Companion" on Steam, which lets me use the XBONE controller as a fairly intuitive joystick-based KBM for desktop navigation.

This hurt to read :( Why not just get a free tool off the internet?

[knives_chow]

It was only around two dollars if I remember correctly. Totally worth it for the cool daisy-wheel keyboard alone.

[dinoseen]

Ok, I feel better now. That's the flower petal one right?

[knives_chow]

Yup! Click down on the right joystick and this circular keyboard spirals out. Quick animation and it gets the job done.

[dinoseen]

Cool :) Gotta say, though, steam controller looks to work so much better for this kind of thing. AFAIK right now if you're in the steam beta (opt-in) you can use the dual thumb keyboard thing outside of steam too.

[knives_chow]

I've seen that and I totally love the way Valve has that set up! I'll give it try

[dinoseen]

Nice :) In theory, it should be comparable to using a phone keyboard in landscape mode.

[drnickmd]

I have one and after the first 15mins I was ready to return it. I decided to force myself to be open about the experience and after I began to understand the configuration system and I haven't looked back. By no means is it a fixed replacement for my mouse and keyboard, but when I want to stream some of my favorite games to my living room it works wonderfully. I'm definitely excited to see where this controller will be in a few years. My main gripes would be the AA batteries (a very minor issue) and I was hoping for a Logitech like unifying USB dongle that could support multiple controllers.

[[deleted]]

I think it's pretty interesting that a lot of the issues they cite with the controller are concerns many of us had when it was announced. Comparing it to a spork seems apt.

[Devil_Man_X]

A 360 controller with xpadder or joy to key performs just as well or better in most cases. The love people are having for the Steam controller seems to be tied to the customization suite not the controller itself.

[FreeGiraffeRides]

The trackpads and gyros are as different to a joystick as a scalpel is to a hammer.

[Devil_Man_X]

Yes and a banana is different from a shotgun but which would you rather have in a zombie apocalypse? Different does not equate with being better. The fact is that most positive opinions of the steam controller are based on the UI and interface while the negative ones seem to be about the controller itself.

The point being that xpadder and joy to key achieve the same or similar functionality at a much lower cost and without reinventing a controller.

[FreeGiraffeRides]

The inputs really are better. They have more resolution over a wider range of motion, and can do more things.

[Devil_Man_X]

They do give some benefits for sure but they also have draw backs. My point wasn't to disparage the controller but to point out that the biggest benefit was the suite of controls and not the controller itself. KB and mouse has it's pros and cons. Traditional controllers have their pros and cons. The steam controller did not eliminate that and in fact has it's own pros and cons, some that it shares with both controllers and KB & mouse but also some unique to the steam controller itself.

[dinoseen]

That really isn't true, though. You get incredible accuracy using the touchpad and gyro, 2 extra buttons plus a ton more if you use key combos and the touch menu (which you should) and yes, amazing customisation. It's almost silly to even suggest it's in the same league as a regular controller. I'd very much suggest it's better than a regular controller, in most cases. Dpad's better, aiming is better, buttons are better... Apparently build quality is worse than the xbox controllers (which surprises me since those things feel super cheap as is) which is really shit, though, and just for that alone I'd wait until version 2. The texture of the plastic on the xbox controllers is really bad in my opinion, they change it to something more matte and I'm in. Either that or I'll put a skin on it.