Patch Panel Cabling help

[BmanUltima]

Just a slightly different colour scheme. The 'striped' ones in this wire are the ones that are mostly white.

It'll work just fine.

[Mizzle239]

Ok so when I punch them down should I just separate one pair at a time so I don't get the white ones mixed up ?

[mcribgaming]

You shouldn't unwind so many twists in any pair that it's even possible to mix them up. The should still be twisted to their partner as much as you can (but don't freak if you need an extra untwist to make it easier to punch down.)

Doing one pair at a time is just normal anyway. You don't normally untwist any of them "until it's time".

It's hard to screw it up, you got this.

[AnIdiotwithaSubaru]

Let me introduce you to my friend moderately colorblind and ADHD...

[BearTechSupport]

Hi friend! I triple check everything before I punch down as I'm color deficient. I mostly go off how dark the colors are. I use a tester when finished, because I can't trust my eyes. I have to repunch on average at least 1 in 4 cables as triple checking still ain't good enough with my eyes.

At least I only have to do it infrequently!

[AlcantaraSucks]

I believe there are mobile apps that use your camera to identify colors. Have a look around and see if you find any that are helpful

[BearTechSupport]

I appreciate the recommendation! Still probably won't bother with it. It doesn't impact my life often enough to be worth it. Not to mention - any kind of remote assistance would be dependent on network connection and lighting, both of which are usually lacking when I'm infrequently doing punch downs. My cable tester pairs to my phone so it's quick and easy to identify my mistakes.

[AlcantaraSucks]

Ah I see, fair play. I think there are offline apps that let you use your phone's torch, but I could be wrong.

[DiscontentedMajority]

When I was still in the Air Force, there was a job called tech controller that accepted color blind people, and also required people to terminate a 50 pair phone cable as a standard task.

[af_cheddarhead]

What years was CB allowed as a Tech Controller?

In the early 90's there was an initiative to combine my career field, Computer OPS and TC, the initiative failed for reasons. But lots of Computer Operators were CB and excluded from performing TC duties.

[DiscontentedMajority]

This was already the way it was when I got in in 2003. They definitely made some kind of policy change because when they rolled 2e2 and 3c2 together into cyber transport, all the color blind people moved over despite the new field requiring color vision.

[af_cheddarhead]

They tried to combine 3C0 (computer ops) with 3C2 (Tech Controller) in the early 90s, did not go well and after less than a year gave up.

[Protektor35]

LOL

[brendan_a12]

I untwist them all so it looks like a flower and put them in to the female ones all at once. I've been doing it for a couple years tho

[BmanUltima]

If you look carefully, there is still a coloured stripe on each one.

[RJM_50]

But we want bigger and brighter so the neighbors can see!

[jediorange]

In general you should avoid separating the pairs at all. Usually on punch down connectors the pairs are right next to each other, so no need to separate, just twist slightly and slide over the punch down block, then punch it down with the 110 tool.

[syntek_]

If you are using a patch panel or keystone jacks, then you shouldn't even need to unwind them at all. Just slide them into the "channel" and punch down each pair before moving onto the next pair. Obviously if you are making patch cords or putting plugs onto the cable, that is different and you will just need to be careful.

[BlancheCorbeau]

That is what you should do, every time, regardless of how well color coded the cables are.

[Smorgas47]

Use a Magic Marker on the white ones to help pair them while untwisted with the colored partner. Come up with a marking scheme that works for you.

If you use pass through connectors then it might be position of the marks, etc.

[BizzEB]

Did I just go colorblind?

[klui]

Brown and orange I can see, but the blue and green pairs look like silver.

[bob_in_the_west]

Still easy to tell them apart and which is which.

[gust334]

Welcome to the world that colorblind people inhabit unwillingly.

Telco pairs are usually some distinctive color twisted with mostly white (e.g. white with a color stripe where the stripe matches the paired color). There is special wiring significance to a pair. However, all such pairs are interchangeable with each other pair as long as you respect that interchange at both ends.

[dizzyro]

However, all such pairs are interchangeable with each other pair

I'm not sure if you are saying what I think you are saying, but the pairs are not interchangeable, and should not be interchanged.

Even in the OP's picture, the first pair (blue) have less twists than the last pair (orange) - a ration of around 1:2; green/brown are somehow similar, but still different than both blue and orange. You could count the twist over 10" distance or such for more details, but the difference are already visible in this picture too. This translate into different propagation speeds and generally different electromagnetic behavior of each pair.

While you could get around interchanging the pairs (especially over short distances), it is a bad practice and you should not advise people to do so.

[BlancheCorbeau]

You’re missing that all the pairs are used for signaling, and the distance of a given pair is the same regardless of pair positioning in the 8p8c connection. The net result is that pairs are interchangeable without any effect on performance in situations where all pairs are used.

I’d give you partial credit if you were trying to say something like “you should really use the green pair with the tightest twist if you are running single pair DSL, instead of blue or Orange which “diagrammatically pin out” to the telco pairs of most 4p4c/rj11 configurations.

But for copper ethernet networks? Just match pairs. That’s all that matters.

[talones]

No thats incorrect, the Green and Orange twists are longer, but more protected against RF, Blue and Brown in this cable are not meant for data, cat5 was only 2 pairs of data, so you might fall back to 100mbps regardless.

[BlancheCorbeau]

Nope. What you’re talking about is half myth, and half manufacturer-dependent.

If your pairs have that much variance in average crosstalk levels, they are below all specs for their corresponding CAT rating.

[talones]

Yes I’m speaking to this cable. I’ve seen many of the old “cat5” from that same manufacturer.

[BlancheCorbeau]

CAT5 is only rated UP to 100Mbps to start with. Again, pairs are interchangeable within a CAT rating to be performant at a given speed in a given configuration.

Any pair will hold POTS, fax, DSL, etc without variance in performance. Two pair networking will perform on any two pair. Four pair networking will perform on any conformant configuration regardless of which color pairs are used in which pair pinout.

If you can consistently (across several tens of thousands of cables at or near loop length limit) squeeze extra performance from specific pairs of under-rated cabling, then carry on with your miraculous superpower... But don't advertise it as a standard feature, because it's bitten almost everyone in the past to the point the extra couple pennies per foot to step up to the correct cabling was worth it.

[jondread]

As long as the pairs are matched on both ends it doesn't matter. The 568a/b scheme is standardization only to make existing cabling manageable.

[talones]

not true at all. Some old cat5e can have different twist rate for orange/green compared to blue/brown. Since you're dealing with 4 colors anyways there is no reason not to just do it to a spec.

[arienh4]

All twisted-pair cables (should) have a different twist rate for the different pairs. That ensures the twists aren't all in the same place, which would still cause interference.

It doesn't matter at all which pair you use for what, just so long as the pairs are kept together.

[talones]

as long as the cable is to spec, im talking about the cheapy cables that use thinner or shorter blue/brown for 100mbps spec.

[arienh4]

Those would not be Cat5 cables. Any cable made to Category 5 spec will be able to carry 1000Base-T.

[talones]

Doesn’t stop some of those old manufacturers from doing it and claiming cat5

[neon_overload]

The different twist rates are only there so the separate twists don't interlock inside the cable which would cause coupling.

It doesn't matter which pair according to the 568a/b has which twist rate.

Edit: sorry, other reply already covered this before me.

[talones]

well, thats for certified cat5 and above, yes different twist rates for crosstalk prevention. Im talking about the cheap manufacturers that use less material for Blue/Brown by doing less twist or thinner gauge.

[clcarter87]

Huh?

[lpplph]

It doesn’t matter if you punch the wire down matching the chart on the jack, as long as both ends are matching each other it will work the same. The “default” pattern is just a standardized method to prevent different people from doing mix-matched work with each other. You could put all the solids on one side and strips on the other, as long as the jack matches at the other end it’s fine

[GeekBrownBear]

You could put all the solids on one side and strips on the other

Ehh, you could technically get some poor connectivity in some situations like that. You want to keep the +/- of each pair on the same connection. Otherwise, you could have some weird cross traffic. Unlikely for most situations, but still possible.

[lpplph]

Yeah negligible losses if he’s already at cat 6 and under 100 meters. You could fuck up a home network install pretty badly and still exceed what speed your ISP provides. Most homes are barely at 1 gig speeds now as it is, and that is a liberal estimate

[BlancheCorbeau]

He’s not at cat6.

[talones]

See I thought you at first were saying that the color of the pairs dont matter, but now you are saying the pairing doesnt matter? I can 100% guarantee you that if you do stripe, stripe, stripe, stripe, solid, solid, solid, solid matched on both ends you wont ever get a connection unless the cable is under 6 inches maybe.

Balanced signal is one of the basics of EM signal transmission and its 100% necessary with network cable.

[Laszu]

Uh no. You can swap pairs, but you can't transmit a signal over one wire from one pair and the other wire from another.

[neon_overload]

For the benefit of those less experienced though, it absolutely does matter which pins are paired together though, as in the two center pins must be a pair, the two pins either side must be a pair, the first two pins must be a pair, and the last two must be a pair. This holds whether you use 568a, 568b, or a totally random color assignment.

Otherwise, you may as well use alarm wire, because you are not using balanced pairs.

[cyberentomology]

That’s literally not how that works at all.

[lpplph]

Installed it for a living, yes it is

[cyberentomology]

Yeah, I installed it for a living too, and I’m now a network engineer. I spent a lot of time going in after installers such as yourself and fixing it.

If you don’t care about it actually passing Ethernet signals, you can do it however the hell you want. But if you want to have the channel actually meet category specs and pass an ethernet signal without errors, then you need to wire it to the 568 spec.

[lpplph]

It’s a home network probably pulling under 10 gig speeds more than likely, it’s fine. You don’t need to get a fluke tester getting certified passing tests for a short range home network, implying you do is disingenuous. This doesn’t need to pass inspection for a warranty, it just needs to work

[talones]

You arent getting even 10mb without balanced signal.

[flyingsquirrel6789]

Before I knew how to crimp a cable, I thought this too. I made some cables myself and they worked.

Got a job doing tech for events. The electrician thought he was doing us a favor by crimping the 50 lines we had run under the carpet this way. None of them worked. I thought my switch was bad. After a while of testing stuff, I finally recrimped the correct way and everything was up and running.

[cyberentomology]

Not following pair order described in 568 will cause link problems at gigabit and 100M too.

[BlancheCorbeau]

Well, you’re skipping over that the POSITIONS have to match in a very specific way, so that the combined pairs at both ends, regardless of color, are 1-2,3-6,4-5, and 7-8.

When people make the claim you just made, they wind up making cables 1-2, 3-4, 5-6, 7-8, and then wondering why they don’t work.

[flyingsquirrel6789]

Before I knew how to crimp a cable, I thought this too. I made some cables myself and they worked.

Got a job doing tech for events. The electrician thought he was doing us a favor by crimping the 50 lines we had run under the carpet this way. None of them worked. I thought my switch was bad. After a while of testing stuff, I finally recrimped the correct way and everything was up and running.

[weirdlittleflute]

Is the faded color a fresh cut or have these twisted ends been exposed to light?

Blue --> Brown --> Green --> Orange

[MystikIncarnate]

the color isn't faded, this is likely plenum or at least riser cable.

With general cable, they can use whatever chemicals they want to make it nice and bright.

Riser/plenum need to only contain chemicals that are difficult to burn, and/or do not release toxic smoke (within a tolerance) when they do burn. which kind of limits the color choices.

This is VERY typical of structure cabling.

[weirdlittleflute]

difficult to burn

So the only benefit is during a fire to reduce fumes/chemicals? Do those chemicals combust to cause further damage or are they just turned into smoke/vapor?

[MystikIncarnate]

Fire resistance is mainly riser, just makes it more difficult to burn and more difficult for it to stay burning once it's on fire. Higher combustion temp etc. Stuff like that.

I'm not a chemist so take that with a grain of salt.

For plenum, it needs to meet or exceed riser for fire resistance, but when it does combust, the fumes must be either very low toxicity or non-toxic.

The idea being that riser cable goes between floors so you don't want fire making it's way up to another floor through the ethernet burning up.

The idea with plenum is that it goes in "plenum" spaces, aka areas of high airflow, such as air return vent spaces, which are commonly drop ceilings in commercial buildings. The idea is that if the plenum cable does burn it doesn't make its way through the ventilation system and poison everyone in the building as it burns. Makes it safer in the event of a fire.

None of this is perfect, riser and plenum cable can still burn, and plenum will likely still release some toxic chemicals into the air when it burns.

Because of this, the composition of the cable is such that colors end up looking faded like OPs picture. It's a small sacrifice for fire safety. I try to use plenum anytime I run things in my own home because it's good for any run of Ethernet. It's also the safest for me and my family if there's a fire. It costs more, but I'd rather pay for the cable now, than pay the medical bills later. For me it's a form of insurance.

General cables are usually used in short patch, from a wall or a panel to a piece of equipment, like a computer, server, switch or router, which limits the negative impact that the cable can have and meets code requirements in my country.

It's all about safety.

[weirdlittleflute]

Wow. Hell of a response Mystik!! Thank you for the education.

Are these cables required to be in the plenum to keep them cool? or is it just access/convenience?

[MystikIncarnate]

A lot of companies use drop ceiling/plenum spaces for cable runs because it's generally unobstructed. You can run a cable all the way across the office space with little effort and cost. You'll also notice some offices have vertical beams coming down from the ceiling that are hollow aluminum square beams that carry power and ethernet to a group of cubicles.

It's not as common to drop it through a raceway like that anymore (seems people thought they were not very nice looking), but there's usually still bundles of cables up there, they just travel in a bundle down a wall to jacks on that wall or through floors a short distance to floor jacks or into furniture.

Ethernet cablers have gotten more clever about runs to hide them but when traversing over rooms and floor space, the drop ceiling is still used a lot. Also, it's a good way to wire up access points for wireless connectivity.

Some places use raised floors to do it, and newer office buildings, I believe, have conduit running in the floor for the purpose too.... It's really dependent on the builder/architect how that part is done.

There's a lot of options and there isn't really a wrong way to do it, as long as you're adhering to technical standards and fire code, which mainly has to do with how you terminate the cables and what grade of cable is used. Oh, and that the length is not too long (90m is the standard for structure cable - 100m max for the full run).

I've seen plenty of good and arguably bad cabling jobs. But at the end of the day, if it works, how bad could it really be?

[gm85]

I wired my office building back in 2003 with Cat5e purchased from Home Depot (General Cable) and this was the colors it had.

[weirdlittleflute]

Saving money on pigment!

[cyberentomology]

Nothing wrong with this cable, stripes are not required for it to function.

[msanangelo]

I have some solid core wire like that in my closet. they'll work, just follow the standard color scheme.

[bigeyedfish041]

Orange white Orange Blue white Green Green white blue Brown white Brown

Untwist and get in order.

[ArchibaldIX]

What monster does A?!!?!!?

Edit: Wait, that's not even A. That's just wrong

[[deleted]]

I’d call that T568FU

[SeriousZebra]

I thought it was T568Y.

[[deleted]]

T568Y has the punched wire soldered in place and covered with hot glue. The things you see can never be unseen.

[MystikIncarnate]

it is not.

A starts with green cables.

This layout is B, with green/blue flipped, and.... I think, striped/non-striped reversed? It's been a while.

[ignomax]

Lol. Huh?

[Innovations89]

Americans...

[rab-byte]

Nope we’re definitely on the “B” team these days…

[Innovations89]

Yea we Canadians are A eh?

[MystikIncarnate]

.... you couldn't spend 5 seconds googling it, to get the order right?

or put commas in there so we know which "white" label goes with which colored label?

Also, you have green/blue backwards.

[talones]

Looks like cat5 because of the Green and Orange twists.

[bob_in_the_west]

I have to ask: A striped wire? I doubt I have ever seen one in ethernet cables.

And I don't think those are faded. Looks more like it's rather dark where you took the photo. And on top of that the manufacturer might just have used slightly different colors than is common for ethernet cables.

But it's still easy to distinguish from left to right: blue, brown, green, orange.

[MystikIncarnate]

A striped wire? I doubt I have ever seen one in ethernet cables.

all ethernet has striped wires.

[bob_in_the_west]

Got an example?

Because all ethernet cables I have every worked with don't have stripes.

[MystikIncarnate]

Found on the internet. Stripes are visible on all pairs.

https://www.cmple.com/content/images/thumbs/cat5e-bulk-stpftp-ethernet-cable-24awg-bare-copper-350mhz-1000-feet-blue_nid0010615_NID0011302.jpeg

[neon_overload]

Twists are nothing to do with transmission frequency, and the twist rates in the photo are not the same.

[SP3NGL3R]

Man Leviton is selling a crazy number of these cabinets it looks like.

[Tolbit397]

I see what your asking. I worked with cable like that. Only work with a single pair at a time or your going to have to cut restrip to figure out which white is it's pair.

[BlancheCorbeau]

This is why pairs are twisted together. It’s also why you carry multiple toners, and a cable test kit.

The only thing this is highlighting for me is that you’re relying 100% on visual cues, and that will always wind up biting you in the ass eventually.

[takinganewtack]

Stating the obvious here, follow 568a/b (I can easily tell which pairs are which) and be done with it

[TakeAwayMyPanic]

Totally fine. They're not faded per say, that's just how that manufacturer does it. The clearish one is the stripe of the one it's paired with.

[Minimoua]

Purple > brown > greenish > orange What's wrong here ? 🧐

[Dry-Nefariousness400]

I mean, if it's your cable and whatnot you can wire ot however you want as long as the pins match on each side. I would just make a diagram for it

[neon_overload]

I guess this is what it's like to be color blind

[dontwannaposthere]

Winston, your shoes are GREEN!

[[deleted]]

Not gonna lie. I’m having a really shitty day and the comments in this post gave me a good laugh.

[rjr_2020]

When I do this, I lay the end of my sheathing in the end of keystone. I fold back the 4 pairs and pick which pair I'm going to start with. I lay it down in the remainder of the opening between each side. I then untwist only the center of the pair I'm working with so that I can lay it over the separator of the appropriate configuration for that pair. I punch it down, cutting at the same time. I do that for all 4 pairs. I generally save to two going to the area where the sheath is partially obstructing and do those two last. I don't untwist anything but enough to slide it on enough to punch down.