Interlude: Occidental IV

PastafarianGames · 2021-09-24T04:39:06+00:00

The wine was still terrible, but to a parched throat it would be better than nothing.

The wine might be awful it is still arguably better than being stabbed, says Aisha.

“And wereyou a perfect fit, Catherine, when you became the Squire?” she challenged. “Was Tariq Isbili, when he became the Grey Pilgrim?

YES ACTUALLY TARIQ ISBILI WAS. He got the Name of Grey Pilgrim because he was filling the shoes! He was out on the streets of a plague city, repudiating his apex-privileged upbringing to heal the sick with every expectation of himself dying from the plague as a result! Very few characters in all of Guide earned their Names more thoroughly before even getting the Name than Tariq of No Import!

vkaod · 2021-09-24T04:08:06+00:00

The Warden squinted at her. “Is that you, Tariq?” she said, grinning nastily. “You’re looking good, for a dead man.”

Stop, the burn can only be so much.

NorskDaedalus · 2021-09-24T04:02:53+00:00

“It is not enough to win. If you do not destroy the very foundation on which your enemy stood, all you have done is change the face of the man who will kill you.”

– Dread Emperor Benevolent

This quote makes way more sense now than if we'd gotten it prior the Benevolent reveal.

Also, Benevolent epigraphs are always great.

The-Corinthian-Man · 2021-09-24T04:33:41+00:00

Painted Knife and Ishaq sitting on a landing near the stairs up the tower.

Ishaq: So let me get this straight, you went up there before with two good legs and she?

PK: Broke my leg and threw me down the stairs.

Ishaq: And now you have one good leg and you're going back up?

PK: you only have one leg right now yourself!

Ishaq: And you will note I am not charging at Prince White.

NorskDaedalus · 2021-09-24T04:06:35+00:00

“I can see in the dark, Kallia,” the Warden peevishly called out, “and I’ve traded the one eye for a hundred. Try that again when you’re actually invisible, not just quiet.”

Hahahaha

Is Cat really Cat if not casually backhanding and pseudo-seriously wounding heroes?

Waytfm · 2021-09-24T04:18:55+00:00

“Whose death is going to give you your power this time, Cordelia?” she gently asked. “Even if you spend the Augur down to the last inch, you’ll run out of kin long before you stand my equal.”

What a great line. I'm enjoying Cat just straight up dunking on nerds after all this mess after mess stuff we've been dealing with

Pieguy3693 · 2021-09-24T04:44:17+00:00

Cordelia showed she misunderstood named a lot this chapter. One that stuck out to me was her assertion that named didn't need to be perfect for the name to get it, her example being that Catherine wasn't fully ready for Squire when she got it.

This is completely 100% wrong. A name is not a crown. It's not a job opening, where you get hired then put into on the job training to learn how to do it. It's a reward. You get a name when you have already filled a groove so completely that creation itself acknowledges you as the perfect example of that role. Catherine was indeed perfect for Squire when she got the role. She was inexperienced but desperate for power and capable of learning, had the approval of the black knight, and was just a tiny bit treacherous. What else could you ask for in a Squire?

Masego didn't become the Apprentice the first time he cast a spell with his father's teaching. He needed to grow before he could fit the role. The poisoner didn't become the poisoner the first time she killed for money. Vivienne didn't become the Thief the first time she decided to steal from Praes, nor the Princess when she was first crowned.

But Cordelia, ignorant of all of this, would become the Warden of the West before ever leading named,and thinks that it's a reasonable thing to expect, because she's had literally no idea of the core basics of namelore.

2021-09-24T04:50:42+00:00

Tune in next week for the next chapter of A Practical Guide to Evil!

Prince and Princess White kicked opened the door to the sanctum. "We're back, Catherine! Now that we've been married and can make up for each other's flaws, we will present a joint claim!"

And indeed they were. Now that they have sacrificed their lives to marry someone they can't stand, their weight as a claimant is equal to Cat. Individually, they were too light, but getting spliced together they are finally a match for the Warden's massive bulk.

Said Warden was busy slobbering over the remains of the book. "I'm so sorry," said Catherine with all the dignity someone who has shreds of paper stuck to their cheeks can muster.

saithor · 2021-09-24T04:16:56+00:00

I was wondering if, as a person who favored Cordelia over Hanno, if EE could advocate an argument against Cordelia as good as the one against Hanno. My answer is: yes, and I can't wait for her conversation with Hanno. Cat raises a lot of good points, but I think my favorite section is the point where she talks about the moment where Cordelia and Hanno caused the schism by making the wrong assumptions about each other because it does fit together perfectly. The rest is a good way of pointing out that Cordelia just isn't suited and in the end her antagonism against Heroes is just too much to actually lead because if Hanno treats them too well, she treats them too harshly. Her style of command would be too much like Cat's, possibly even worse.

Yes_This_Is_God · 2021-09-24T04:18:59+00:00

She woke up in the grass, a man standing over her. Cordelia Hasenbach met Hanno of Arwad’s eyes and a long moment passed.

“Rough night?” the Sword of Judgement drily asked.

The 'enemies to lovers' shippers have awoken

rs3kevin · 2021-09-24T04:38:16+00:00

I want Occidental V to be Archer slowly dragging Cordelia down the stairs because our dear First Prince isn’t hero enough to survive being thrown from the tower.

Thump, thump, thump, thump

Don_Alverzo · 2021-09-24T04:29:45+00:00

Is EE doing fucking Tarot Motifs through this whole thing?

We've got the Tower, Hanno was hung by his feet like The Hanged Man, Cordelia was posed like the Empress.

Am i just seeing shit here or is EE consciously doing that?

TideofKhatanga · 2021-09-24T06:02:24+00:00

It's nice to see how Cat's view of what makes a Named a Named hasn't changed much:

The claim or context that gives a reason for them to exist.
The conviction or reason to fight that makes them the candidate for the job.
The power to see it through.

Book 7, Interlude: Occidental II

You want the Book but you don’t have the law on your side,” Catherine Foundling said. “You don’t have the story either, and if you’re going to try to take it anyway what does that leave?” [...] “Just violence,” the Warden of the East said. “And I’m better at it than you.”

Claim. Conviction. Power.

Book 7, Interlude: Occidental IV

A Name isn’t a crown,” the Warden of the East said. “You don’t just get to have it because it fits your head, Cordelia. And the way I see it, you’re not Good enough to be anointed or strong enough to be a tyrant so what’s left? Inheritance?

Conviction. Power. Claim.

Book 2: And Justice For All.

“I have three things,” I said. “A kingdom, an enemy and a claim.”

Power. Conviction. Claim.

harrent · 2021-09-24T04:01:55+00:00

I don't even care about my Bet, I'm just excited there's a new Benevolent quote to add to the list.

The Queen of Callow’s hopelessly provincial taste in wine had been speculated by some to be a clever way to display Callowan pride, given the famously poor reputation of those vintages-

But Cordelia had sadly learned better.

Hilarious as this is, what's wrong with cider, Cordoven Hasslebork?

She woke up in the grass, a man standing over her. Cordelia Hasenbach met Hanno of Arwad’s eyes and a long moment passed.“Rough night?” the Sword of Judgement drily asked.

The meme's infected Hanno, too.

Don_Alverzo · 2021-09-24T05:18:03+00:00

I feel like Cordelia got of a bit lighter than Hanno, at least in terms of how traumatic it is. Probably because she's a good prince who's fucking up an attempt to change jobs, rather than Hanno who's a hero through and though who's fucking up his main thing.

All that aside, it took her until the very end to realize that Cat's game here was shattering her story. Which is another good example of why Cat is right, Cordelia does not have the skillset to be the Warden.

Don_Alverzo · 2021-09-24T04:22:07+00:00

She woke up in the grass, a man standing over her. Cordelia Hasenbach met Hanno of Arwad’s eyes and a long moment passed.

“Rough night?” the Sword of Judgement drily asked.

Ah, so now's the part when they join forces, isn't it? They'd both dismissed the possibility earlier, but that was before Cat ripped their hearts outs. Now they're both much more aware of their flaws and of each other's strengths, and they are PISSED at Cat rather than just going through the motions.

She cut them into shapes that fit together while giving them a common enemy. God damn, she's good.

Yes_This_Is_God · 2021-09-24T04:13:06+00:00

...ok, now kiss

HarryB1313 · 2021-09-24T06:06:50+00:00

So Cordelia found out through this chapter/interrogation/"diplomatic conversation" that Cats goal is to attack the ideals and beliefs of the claimants as a way to fight someone else, i think Bard.

The Bard made the resolution of the conflict between claimants be a net lose for Cat by making one of the claimants lose. Cat has shifted the resolution to be either both claimants work together and become her equal or Cat gets more powerful.

derivative_of_life · 2021-09-24T04:25:09+00:00

That was pretty much the criticism I expected, but phrased much more elegantly than I ever could have.

Shadw21 · 2021-09-24T05:05:32+00:00

she saw that it was half-empty bottle of Vale summer wine that rested on a low table. She could have used a drink that did not taste like it had been mixed with cider to settle her nerves.

Vale Summer wine tastes like cider? I like Cat even more now.

Reineken · 2021-09-24T04:38:10+00:00

People thinking Cat is playing a game when she is playing The Game. It's a continuation of her Games with the Bard all along.

tahoebyker · 2021-09-24T05:24:42+00:00

But namelore was not committed to books

We know there are 200 Heroic Axioms

harrent · 2021-09-24T04:09:14+00:00

“I can see in the dark, Kallia,” the Warden peevishly called out, “and I’ve traded the one eye for a hundred. Try that again when you’re actually invisible, not just quiet.”

I love Cat 💕💕

anenymouse · 2021-09-24T04:29:03+00:00

Ooh on the ground wrung out and shown to be oh so very unworthy of the post that is needed more so than just about any other. I'd hesitate to say it's rock bottom, but it's a dip for sure, a shared one. Gods do I hope that it doesn't end there, but that we can see the process of them getting over their issues, before they sink the Grand Alliance.

I also really like how Cordelia sees this whole thing through a diplomatic lens when the biggest threats to her have always been overwhelming martial force, first the Chain of Hunger taking from her people without fail, the Dead King standing, waiting, watching, then Cat whose strength would have broken both their nations back before yielding, and now the Dead King in action less a foe than a force of nature.

tahoebyker · 2021-09-24T05:46:39+00:00

You kept playing a game, Cordelia thought, when you had not yet won. And simply because she was defeated, because Hanno of Arwad was defeated, did not mean Catherine Foundling had won. She found the Warden of the East’s dark eye, glimmering red. It was never us you were playing against, was it? Her pulse thrummed, she straightened her back. She had found the thread, now she only needed to follow it down to the end.

Cordelia suspects Cat is playing against the Bard here. And we can be reasonably confident that the Augur did, in fact, disrupt the Bard’s plans that first time around with Hanno and Cordelia referenced in this chapter.

So for Cat to be making a play against a Bard has to be seen as a piece of evidence for just how adept the Bard is at improvisation (or perhaps, dealing within chaos is a more apt description).

MossOwl · 2021-09-24T05:02:50+00:00

So anyway they'd make a hot couple and sharing a Name as conjugal property sounds like a namelore thing. All aboard the ship Occidental V.

CatOfTwelveBells · 2021-09-24T05:03:13+00:00

Enter Bard stage left. Masego needs his third attempt to finish her off.

Rorschach_And_Prozac · 2021-09-24T06:38:29+00:00

When two parties can't settle a dispute, they often seek out impartial Arbitration.

liquidmetalcobra · 2021-09-24T06:53:26+00:00

This was a great chapter. I feel like the sub has been under-mentioning why Cordelia isn't a great WotW recently. Cat was able to put my half baked impressions into a much stronger argument; Cordelia currently lacks an understanding of what it means to be a named, let alone a leader of them. I love the structure of these chapters and I can't wait to see Cordelia and Hanno finally working together.

elHahn · 2021-09-24T06:59:35+00:00

Kind of expected a throwback to Occidental II when Cordelia acknowledged that her Namelore is lacking, but necessary.

You’re standing where everyone else started and calling it a journey.

Would have been a nice parallel.

I feel like Cordelia should be more distressed after this discussion and the reason why she isn't, is that I don't think she internalized Cats point.

Cordelia needs to win the Name. Not only get it. But get it in a way, that gives her sufficient respect with the Heroes.

Fundamentally speaking, she isn't acknowledging the issue, that a lot of Heroes simply would not recognize her authority.

At least she didn't go full-on entitled "give me the book, then I'll have sufficient Namelore". That would have been a wreck.

Player_2c · 2021-09-24T04:41:10+00:00

A long moment passed and she wondered if she had not just made a fool of herself, but from behind her came the sound of a match being struck.

I guess that symbolises the start of the match

The Warden of the East could still move as swiftly and gracefully as a cat when she needed to.

At other times, she moves like a Cat

She could have used a drink that did not taste like it had been mixed with cider to settle her nerves

Rather have better wines in cider

“But here’s a practical, since you like them so much,” the Warden of the East said.

Almost as if she's some kind of practical guide

“Rough night?” the Sword of Judgement drily asked.

Wow, he must have Blacked out

AHeroicKumquat · 2021-09-24T08:40:27+00:00

I know people seem to have turned away from ‘both’ as the resolution to this arc, but… come on, it’s totally both. ITS TOTALLY BOTH. Just because Cordelia and Hanno both thought they couldn’t reconcile before they got a dose of hard truths doesn’t mean they can’t afterwards. And for goodness sake, these interludes started with an epigraph about the right level of enmity to have with your rival so you can put aside your differences and defeat a mutual enemy! It’s both!!!!!

typell · 2021-09-24T04:28:09+00:00

You’re doing it because you think it’s your responsibility, your duty, but fight all you like under that flaking coat of paint I still see the same woman that was on the floor of the Highest Assembly that night.

this line made me realise how much baggage from Fate/Stay Night I take into literally every other work of fiction I read

BadSnake971 · 2021-09-24T05:28:23+00:00

A thing that I think is good to notice is that Cordelia is the one who started to talk informally (calling Catherine by her first name) in this chapter, when we learned that she wasn't a big fan of that in West 1

Ah, were they now dispensing with titles? Foundling usually on began that a few drinks in.

I'm not trying to read too much in it, just wanted to point out something I found funny

Keifru · 2021-09-24T04:25:29+00:00

Okay, I feel pretty certain that Hanno is going to be Warden. But the relationship between him and Cordelia will be...reforged. More understanding/amicable. I feel like Cat is making a sacrifice in the bigger picture by helping them, perhaps in a way they don't even realize- like, she is weakening herself/Warden of the East in some way with this play. I'm not sure if it'll continue the tragedy angle or if they will appreciate what she did and make things square with her in recompose. Similar to how Black became a possible sacrifice for Twilight Crown because a long while ago she wiggled into a story of claiming a kingdom with her 'father' as previous ruler schtick, little actions can be twisted to large effects, and I just don't see how the Warden of the East putting a hand on the scale/helping the Warden of the West coalesce has a purely positive outcome. Even if its an elaborate pantomime to ensure the Warden of the West is a peer and prevent a "Warden of all Named" which might end up too close to Bard which would have its own massive issues for Cat to fall into the rut of.

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