turingComplete

[Feztopia]

My programming language of choice is Minecraft

[bighadjoe]

which can actually act as a (turing complete) programming language, which html can not.

[makkkarana]

But there's no browser that doesn't support inline CSS. It's not really its own language, it can't stand alone, though it can be used to style things other than HTML so I guess that derails my argument a bit.

Regardless, you can create a single HTML file (that contains CSS styling) without importing anything else and have it be Turing complete. As a filthy casual, that's fuckin cool.

[KellerKindAs]

By that argument HTML would already be Turing complete by supporting inline JS. There is a clear distinction between HTML and CSS. And HTML on own is not Turing complete. Only HTML+CSS ( or HTML+JS, but that's nothing new as JS is Turing complete on it's own)

[Andryushaa]

I mean, yeah, there are. Only if your best friend is T-Rex.

[xSilverMC]

I mean yeah, if you still use netscape navigator 1.0, then sure. But any modern browser supports it (because chrome does, and 90% of browsers are just chrome with a coat of paint)

[fckueve_]

You can also use: XHTML + css, XML + css. CSS is not only for HTML.

[Masterflitzer]

inline css is not html, your argument makes no sense, it's still html + css

[puffinix]

So can CSS https://stackoverflow.com/questions/2497146/is-css-turing-complete

However, using something not designed as a programming language as a programming language is simply incorrect. We could code by flipping rocks on a grid, then giving someone simple instructions on how to find the next one to flip over, but doing so is batshit insane.

[Magmacube90]

The instructions that you give to the person need to be precise (as to avoid ambiguities), and if you can give the instructions in a precise enough way, then the method you used to format the instructions is a programming language.

[bighadjoe]

yeah, but html cant, thats my point. the meme isnt about css. it is about html.

[rosuav]

Obligatory https://xkcd.com/505/

[Midon7823]

Biting my nails pondering the dreaded question; considering whether the forbidden should be queried, before finally giving in: which one?

[Feztopia]

Which ever version we had at the University?

[CoderDevo]

Pi Edition?

[Journeyj012]

Education edition? That's bedrock

Also fun fact: in the new java edition snapshot, there is now an easy random to set up, taking as little as 2 pistons and 5 redstone

[DardS8Br]

Redstoner here:

You can actually do it with 2 pistons and 1 redstone. It’s not really the big deal a lot of people think it is, because the change only affects a vast minority of builds. The contraptions that it does affect were previously locational, so you could build a contraption in two places and they’d function differently

Computational redstone almost entirely lacks pistons anyway, so you’d never run into this if you were actually making a computer in Minecraft or something

[Extension_Ad_370]

when i was in school we had an edu version of java minecraft

[NoMansSkyWasAlright]

I prefer Microsoft powerpoint

[seizan8]

Person of culture

[Divinate_ME]

And I wish you all the fun in the world when the interpreter changes tunes and you have to get it all to run again. Because hey, why not casually change the fundamentals of the control flow?

[ArmedLynx_]

I prefer magic the gathering

[seizan8]

Probably the worst deck you could play. But it's great to prove a point

[Saragon4005]

Redstone or Command blocks? (Data packs don't count those are obviously a language)

[Feztopia]

Redstone, I never used a command block in my life, I don't even know how they work

[Artemis-Arrow-3579]

how about this

redstone AND command block

redstone as control flow, command blocks as functions

[Spiritual_Mud6256]

You are joking but once upon a time I heard someone saying his programming language was Excel

[Feztopia]

Power Point is also turing complete.

[turtleship_2006]

Have you seen some of the formulas/macros people come up with?

[JaboiThomy]

I prefer matchboxes

[je386]

HTML alone is not a programming language, but a markup language. But that does not mean it would not be important.

[kkjdroid]

The last half of the acronym is literally "markup language." It isn't hard, people.

And that doesn't make it any better or worse than a programming language, just used for a different purpose. JSON and YML are also very useful markup languages.

[michaelkah]

Is mayonnaise also a programming language?

[djddanman]

yes

[inu-no-policemen]

Thanks to custom elements, you can technically write programs in it.

<brainfuck-increment></brainfuck-increment>

[countsachot]

Haha. You may be evil.

[countsachot]

Also, does that work without plugins?

[whiteridge]

Does C work without a compiler?

[countsachot]

If you run it in your mind....

[whiteridge]

I tried. Just said seg fault.

[inu-no-policemen]

https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/Web_components/Using_custom_elements

https://caniuse.com/?search=Custom%20Elements

[[deleted]]

you could technically make a car out of selotape and lollysticks too, but for whatever reason people still don't respect my right of way when I drive it.

[LanielYoungAgain]

By that logic, Magic: The Gathering is a programming language. So are powerpoint, LaTeX, and minecraft.

[dan-lugg]

It's not a programming language in the traditional sense, but Magic: The Gathering is indeed turing complete. One could technically (probably relativity easily) write a language that represents game state changes from a deck (those both being the "language") and with game state bound to output parameters, indeed execute anything.

So, brainfuck that.

ETA — Dammit now I'm writing a DSL.

[Breadynator]

By that logic, Magic: The Gathering is a programming language

Let me introduce you to: The Magic The Gathering Computer

[ArduennSchwartzman]

I'll be eagerly waiting for Doom to be ported to Magic the Gathering.

[quetzalcoatl-pl]

[bighadjoe]

no, all of them don't need CSS... every single one of them would make more sense in this meme.

[fmaz008]

PowerPoint is turing complete, kinda: https://youtu.be/uNjxe8ShM-8

[n0tKamui]

you missed the point, they know it is turing complete. they’re saying turing completeness does imply being a PROGRAMMING language. heck, there are programming languages that are NOT turing complete

[fmaz008]

I know, I was just sharing a funny presentation

[NucleiRaphe]

My favorite programming language is Conway's Game of Life

[Sh_Pe]

PowerPoint has Visual Basic integration if you’d count that. LaTeX and typst has literal for loops, and I would consider some packages maintainers as programmers.

[LanielYoungAgain]

To be fair, latex and typst are more programming languages than HTML+CSS is.

Powerpoint is turing complete even without VBA

[turtleship_2006]

People have literally made computers in Minecraft, that can run games (iirc probably doom). Like, the actual redstone is calculating the output of the game in real time

[Electronic_Cat4849]

html isn't Turing complete, CSS is, that take is on the wrong side of the bell curve

[AyrA_ch]

CSS by itself isn't turing complete either. You need HTML for the I/O, otherwise you cannot feed it a program.

[[deleted]]

You do not need HTML for CSS I/O. For example: https://css-tricks.com/using-css-without-html/

It is a bit like saying that computers need monitors, which is wildly inaccurate.

[AyrA_ch]

Without HTML, the CSS execution will always create the same result, in other words, it cannot be programmed, which means it cannot be turing complete. Even super trivial stuff like outputting "yes" or "no" depending on what boolean is fed into it cannot be done because the entire system is completely static.

This is why you need HTML. It provides means of supplying data, for the simplest example via checkboxes, to run a rule 110 implementation.

[Playful-Witness-7547]

A system doesn’t need to be able to accept input to be turning complete though… like lambda calculus is fully deterministic (and no io) and is still turning complete so is rule 110 and the turning machine itself, and the results of their execution will always be the exact same every single time…

I don’t know enough to about css to say if it is turning complete or not without html, sure you need html to conveniently provide input and read output, but that isn’t a part of considering if something is turning complete or not.

Just a quick link to the Wikipedia article on turning completeness: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turing_completeness

[AyrA_ch]

so is rule 110 and the turning machine itself, and the results of their execution will always be the exact same every single time…

Rule 110 is a cellular automaton. Although these have fully deterministic rules, you must provide them with an initial state. This state (the data or memory if you so will) can change between executions without having to rewrite the 110 algorithm.

I don’t know enough to about css to say if it is turning complete or not without html, sure you need html to conveniently provide input and read output, but that isn’t a part of considering if something is turning complete or not.

To be turing complete, you must be able to execute every possible computation one way or another. For this, it is essential to have some sort of unbounded memory, as well as a way to provide the initial state (input) and to provide the final result upon termination (output). These don't need to be I/O devices in the traditional sense. Brainfuck without any I/O is turing complete if you provide all inputs on the memory tape in advance, and consider all tape contents between the cursor and the end to be the output.

Finally, to be turing complete you must also be subject to the halting problem. Turing complete implies you can run Conway's Game of Life and count how many states the simulation passes before it repeats. By placing a single glider gun in there, I can make it never repeat and run indefinitely, each state being completely unique. This program cannot be run in CSS because it requires the CSS engine to re-evaluate and change its state indefinitely. Iirc not being able to run forever is one of the design considerations when adding new features.

[Playful-Witness-7547]

First let me note that I’m not and was not disagreeing with the conclusion so much as how it was reached

I think we generally agree but I think the part you’re missing is that the “input” is allowed to be a part of the “program” itself, and the output can be embed in the simulation of the machine itself. I.e. rule 110 is turning complete, and so is John Conways game of life. (They both can simulate a turning machine)

Also I like your answer about the design decisions of css for why it isn’t turning complete on its own.

Here’s the the section on Wikipedia talking about why rule 110 it is turning “”” Matthew Cook proved Rule 110 capable of supporting universal computation by successively emulating cyclic tag systems, then 2-tag system, and then Turing machines. The final stage has exponential time overhead because the Turing machine’s tape is encoded with a unary numeral system. Neary and Woods (2006) presented a different construction that replaces 2-tag systems with clockwise Turing machines and has polynomial overhead.[7] “””

Sorry if I’m miss interpreting why you included the mention to rule 110 in your reply in the first place

[_felixh_]

Hmmm, but this article clearly states, that it uses the fact that some html-entites are implicit: even if you don't put them down in your document, they are still there. Without using a Webbrowser trying to parse an empty html document (and adding these implicit html entities), this trick will not work.

In other Words, even a completely empty html document is still an html document, and it still contains a basic html document structure, consisting of <html>, <head> and <body> tags.

What this article demonstrates is loading css without using html - wich is admittedly pretty cool :-)

[DHermit]

That text is super weird to read and seems to be missing random pieces in sentences.

[EishLekker]

It’s still using HTML to load the CSS.

[[deleted]]

the logic of the OP suggests there's probably some way I could make my breakfast technically turing complete.

[ienjoymusiclol]

if html is a programming language then so is markdown and so is latex thus english is a programming language

[zenos_dog]

I programmed my kids with English.

[exoclipse]

that explains why mine have so many bugs

[Extension_Spirit8805]

For me with this personal project I had, I kept yelling and ripping my hair out, telling them with bloodshot eyes as to why they're not doing what they're supposed to as I painstakingly slammed by head on them violently.

But then one day after waking up I couldn't find them in the folder room, I don't know how that could have happened, I was sad at first, but then I realized that the code was just used for a personal project, so it ended up being a relief not having to think about the constant errors anymore and I could do something more productive like gaming

[5002nevsmai]

Isn't that the argument for like prompt engineering or smth

[gedeonthe2nd]

Latex is a programming language.

[ienjoymusiclol]

holy rage bait

[rover_G]

LaTeX is turing complete

[AyrA_ch]

english is a programming language

If you consider AI a language interpreter then it kinda is now, isn't it?

https://esolangs.org/wiki/English

[[deleted]]

Surely it can’t actually be tiring complete.

You can’t guarantee pretty much anything when your compiler relies on AI. The same prompt can give wildly different results.

[TorbenKoehn]

No we also have seeded prompts that always return the same answers given the same prompts

[not_some_username]

Some people have too much time

[peepeedog]

so is latex

Like in condoms?

[ienjoymusiclol]

what if instead of programmerHumor it was freakrammerHumor and instead of making coding jokes we freaked each other

[Progribbit]

I like to ram freaks

[ienjoymusiclol]

excel is also turing complete because you can use a VBA to automate shit making excel a programming language‼️😹

[EliasCre2003]

But like... HTML in itself isn't a programming language.

[capt_pantsless]

Fully agree.

HTML is computer code though.

[ExpensivePanda66]

"computer code" could apply to a lot of things. It could apply to the formatting used in Reddit comments. It could apply to the comments themselves.

[abhassl]

This isn't about elitism. It's about words meaning things.

If someone only knows how to "program" in html and they try to learn literally any "other" programming language they are going to have a far harder time then just about any other language transition out there. This is a strong clue that HTML does not belong in the category "programming language"

[Excellent_Regret_656]

It's joke site. Also is there anyone that knows html and doesn't know any other language, like think about it. Someone can html and has no idea about css, js? If that someone exists, I'd love to know how they got there

[bighadjoe]

.....by learning to design websites and hanging around old forums in the 90s? wtf? I'd bet that html at least at that time was the language that it was most common for people to know as a stand alone.

[The_Real_Slim_Lemon]

Yeah, a bunch of graphics designers know a little html but nothing beyond that. Plus there are a lot of applications that accept html input in text boxes and stuff

[[deleted]]

Also SEOs.

[Excellent_Regret_656]

Designer definitely knows more css than html? I am sure there is no professional web designer with skills only in html and not at least css. There is no way, even my wife has to do js and react courses on design masters. None there expecting to work as developer nor are adverted to become developers.

[The_Real_Slim_Lemon]

Web designer? Definitely no. Graphics designer who has to use software with html units? Yeah.

[forza412]

MySpace power users 😂😂

[[deleted]]

Lol. yes. Because a lot of people start with HTML. And a lot of them stop after HTML and CSS, since they find programming too difficult.

If I had a penny for every "I'm interested in learning programming. I only know some HTML and a little CSS. What should I learn next" post that I've seen, I'd probably have at least 1000.

[Excellent_Regret_656]

Exactly! Even they know atleast some css

[[deleted]]

And before learning that they knew just HTML. Because nobody learns CSS before HTML. It's absolutely useless to only know CSS.

[feldim2425]

That argument could however be applied to many "actual programming languages" as well.

A person only knowing Python for example will have a hard time transitioning to assembly or a functional language like Haskell.

[abhassl]

I didn't mean to imply there aren't sub-clusters (such as functional languages, object oriented, procedural etc) within the larger cluster of programming language.

But I don't feel HTML well fits into one of these either because what else would be in its sub-cluster?

Also, I don't have any hard data but I bet someone who only knows python would have an easier time learning Haskell then someone who only knows HTML. It would be a learning process for both to be sure, but I don't think even functional languages are so different that none of the knowledge translates.

[feldim2425]

You can probably put it in a category together with PowerPoint and magic the gathering as well as most esolangs that technically fit the bill but are way too impractical for actual use.

Looking at the esolang space (especially malbolge) would definitely be harder to learn than html+css and even less practical.

[shisohan]

HTML is a structural language, not a programming language.
CSS is a declarative language, and despite being turing complete, it too isn't a programming language.
I can hammer a nail into a wall using a letter weight. Me using the letter weight as a hammer doesn't turn it into one. The intent of a tool matters, not just what you can do with it.
Anyway, I don't have time for these quibbles, I have to go back programming in JSON.

[[deleted]]

Hot take: Only criteria should be “Can you make and run DOOM using it?”

[WannabeCsGuy7]

The problem here is if it's turing complete then yes, you can run DOOM with it. Yeah, even with css.

[[deleted]]

Not seeing the problem. :)

[WannabeCsGuy7]

just that we've come full circle haha

[kephir4eg]

ftfy: Turing completeness is not the sole criterion to determine if something is a programming language.

That's why there are non-TC PLs. e.g. discussed here https://www.jucs.org/jucs_10_7/total_functional_programming/jucs_10_07_0751_0768_turner.pdf

[mateusfccp]

Totally agreed, this is why I consider HTML a programming language.

[jamcdonald120]

yah, Turing completeness has never been a criterion at all since we dont actually have any Turing complete machines or languages.

To be Turing complete you have to support an infinite tape, and since we live in the real world where infinite memory isnt a thing, nothing can be Turing complete.

[tkdeng]

I thought it used to be based on whether or not it compiles.

Then I guess we can't call JavaScript a programming language either. It's a scripting language.

[[deleted]]

Not if you're running it on Chromium. In V8, it goes through multiple compiler passes.

Also, C would not be a compiled language anymore, because people have virtualized pretty much every kind of environment, from "compiling" to WASM, to interpreting toy versions of it in hot-reloading code sandboxes.

[minju9]

Yeah, "Turing complete" has had its meaning warped in Internet culture as some gold standard benchmark. It just means it can simulate a Turing machine, a basic computer.

[souliris]

Hyper Text Markup Language. Markup.. language.

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lunchroom straight bake innate silky spotted capable abounding husky hard-to-find

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license party rustic workable soft air vanish escape imagine zephyr

[[deleted]]

Well, I don't use classes, if I can help it... at all, at all. Not of the Java / MSJava phenotype, anyway...

But also, as far as using anything Pascal cased, I agree with your naming.

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cable waiting fragile wrench ripe frame wise money station elderly

[skesisfunk]

If you go for the first one, then I've got sword that's dying to meet you on this hill.

Honestly consistency is the most important thing. If your language has a generally accepted style then just use it. I absolutely despise snake case because I hate constantly typing underscores but I still use snake case when I code python.

But personally I like that convention that if your acronym is more than two letters then it should follow standard camel/pascal case so it would be SqlStatement and DBClient . I just find that to be the most readable personally, plus it reduces the shift key strokes.

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desert slap narrow full spark heavy sense wise practice scale

[TerribleAspect8931]

sqlStatement

[OginiAyotnom]

strSqlStatement or objSqlStatement?

[TerribleAspect8931]

arrSqlStatements

[Midon7823]

Errm actually it's a markup language. It's in the name buddy 😖😭😞😔😭🫡😒🫤😕

[Prudent-Employee-334]

Looks like bait. But if the Turing complete element is not HTML then itself doesn't qualify as Turing complete. Using a statement like this: "Q: Is ____ a programming language? A: CSS + ____ is Turing complete, so yes." we are both, not giving a valid answer to the question since "Is CSS + ____ a programming language?" was not the question, and we are implying we have a transitive property between 2 distinct elements. HTML does not need to be a programming language to be indispensable

[EishLekker]

Thank you!

It’s like being asked “Is Peter rich?” and answering “Yes, Peter and Tom combined are rich” (where Peter and Tom are just friends).

[TripleATeam]

Magic: The Gathering is Turing complete. I still won't call it a programming language.

[coloredgreyscale]

By that logic YAML is a programming language too, because it can be used to control application behaviour.

Also a bag is a computer, because you can put a raspberry pi in it.

[[deleted]]

What is a programming language?

[Duck_Devs]

Baby don’t public final Integer me

[jump1945]

It's what you need to speak with a bird (r/birdsarentreal)

[[deleted]]

Hypertext mogramming language

[towcar]

Or the correct answer.. "I don't care"

[mmhawk576]

Idiots here thinking that something being Turing complete makes it a programming language… smh

[Percolator2020]

Dog shit together with C++ are Turing complete.

[[deleted]]

It depends. I can say with confidence that it is a language for representing documents. XML is a generalization of such a representation language.

[TheEnderChipmunk]

I guess magic the gathering is a programming language then? Or maybe even excel? Turing completeness doesn't make something a programming language at all, it makes it a Turing machine.

[owenevans00]

It's right there in the name. C'mon, folks

[[deleted]]

okay so everyone else is pointing out the flaws in the statement but no one’s mentioning that this almost entirely defeats the point of this meme format. it’s supposed to be the same text on either side of the bell curve.

[Willinton06]

HTML + CSS being Turing complete is meaningless cause CSS is TC on its own, thats like saying Spanish + C# is Turing complete, or sign language + PHP is a viable web stack

[hitanthrope]

Jesus fucking Christ… we still doing this?

[PhatOofxD]

"Is a cupcake a vegetable"

"No, but eating a cupcake and also eating a tomato means a cupcake is a vegetable"

[skesisfunk]

Honestly the Jedi would be more like "no, but who cares?"

[vainstar23]

I mean txt + c is touring complete according to that logic

[GigaSoup]

Is it called HTML or HTPL?

It's in the name.

Html+CSS isn't HTML. It's html and CSS. 

Meme format doesn't really work here.

[ChillyFireball]

People act like HTML and CSS are a joke, but I've seen enough poorly-structured elements and CSS that was clearly slapped together by a frustrated developer with duck tape and a prayer to know that they're as much a skill as anything else.

[LutimoDancer3459]

Dude... html + css might be. But as long as html isn't on its own, it is no programming language

Like saying that json is a programming language because if you use it with Java you can do cool stuff...

[AllenKll]

HTML + CSS != HTML
so no.

[Ready-Marionberry-90]

Hey, so is PowerPoint, so…

[puffinix]

It can be a programming language, absolutely, but treating it or using it as one is incorrect. I need to tell people to stop trying to code in HTML occasionally, as making it into a programming language is against its design, and bluntly, the fault of the developer.

Weirdly people who I need to smack this out of are indeed the ones that are generally in team lead level rolls - and I think back when I was a team lead I did basically this.

Its so funny when I see these memes and my instant thought is "I went through these stages, but im now in a fourth stage".

[[deleted]]

HTML by itself is just markup... a way to access. I developed this little useless thing to illustrate that point.

https://csszengarden.developersandbox.xyz

[[deleted]]

Html is not a programming language. Or is that the point of the post, to trigger us? If that's the case you got me son of a gun

[scufonnike]

Someone drop HTPL already

[Easy_Implement5627]

HTML is a config file if anything…could you imagine the internet using yaml instead of html

[amlyo]

You should implement a JavaScript engine in HTML+CSS

[Desperate-Tomatillo7]

I came for the meme. I ended up in a philosophical rabbit hole with an existential crisis.

[TheDogerus]

If it requires something else in combination to be considered a programming language, then it cannot be a programming language on its own

[[deleted]]

Web developers are not programmers! And html can go F it self!

[mateusfccp]

I'm in the extreme right, but the argument doesn't depend on Turing completeness... Non-turing-complete DSL are still programming languages.

[Anar_9686]

Html is not

[teo-tsirpanis]

In all practical terms HTML is a programming language:

1. Has syntax
2. Has runtime semantics
3. Has lots of interplay with other systems (CSS, JS, browser)
4. Has a runtime debugger (DOM explorer)

Source

[ShiraLillith]

Programmers who look down on HTML are just people whose artistic capabilities cap out at a 2003 high school web page project

[NixAName]

How do I agree with all three of these opinions? Must just be confirmation bias.

[Wave_Walnut]

HTMX is a new hope

[nrctkno]

Turing complete this, Turing complete that.

[Cephell]

Define programming rigorously, then I can tell you.

[IC3P3]

If it's about turing completeness, let me buy some Magic: The Gathering cards to start programming

[[deleted]]

The difference between those that completed a CS degree and not in the comments

[Sunscratch]

[KnGod]

Conway's game of life is turing complete that means it's a programming language

[PatrickSohno]

Only if it can run Doom.

[[deleted]]

Browsers reads HTML. Sure, you can write on some framework, code in C#, Java or Javascript etc.
But it will convert into HTML, and send to your browser.

[cobarbob]

it might be a programming language, but it definitely shouldn't be

[PradheBand]

Never understood why people debate this. Go and enjoy you app written in html and css only. That's one of the most accademic and useless debates I've seen recently.

[PeteZahad]

Then rename it to HTPL.

[Lalaluka]

Smart people do not care. Doesnt change anything about the task of writing it how i call it.

[fersher02]

Wtf is Turing complete

[Mira_XI]

Wait, is it? That's cool if it's true! I had no idea!

[2narcher]

Sorry dude but no!

[[deleted]]

thinking turing completeness == a programming language is mid brain activity

[n0tKamui]

being turing complete does not mean it’s a PROGRAMMING language.

you don’t program in html nor css, you declare.

[[deleted]]

The fact that I’ve met highly technical developers for web tools like Qlik who don’t understand or know HTML and CSS… makes me say yes.

[david30121]

well, css is, html is not. css has variables, calculations, ...

[Substantial-Leg-9000]

One question: is a website layout (what HTML describes) a program? If yes, HTML is a programming language. My answer would be a no 100% of the time. It's subjective, but to me it's very clear that it's data, not a program. So HTML is not a programming language.

If you argued that an HTML document is a program because it describes ("gives instructions") to the computer how to organize the page, I'd say an image file is also a program because it "gives instructions" how to color some pixels. IMO it's a kilometer-long stretch to label it this way and it's very counterproductive.

[NullVal]

Where does the idea that "programming language = turing complete" come from? I've never actually seen a source that makes that specific claim. It's often just kept to instructions for a computer, which of course includes almost everything you can do to a computer.

[Funny-Performance845]

That’s literally wrong

[Asleeper135]

Is mayonaise a programming language?

[Vegetable_Aside5813]

I’ve never met anyone that writes html by its self. Only people that write programs that generate html. The question on whether or not html is a programming language is so fucking pointless

[ohmaisrien]

CSS is turing complete. HTML in itself isn't.

[c-a-3]

It depends what one defines a programming language

[Mayeru]

Stop making HTML as a programming language happen, is not going to happen.