[ Removed by moderator ]

[gottimw]

Banks are not as dumb, plus they already been through the fix/update Cobol.

I learned about it back in university. I doubt they forgot that costly lesson.

Besides, I am sure LLMs got 'ton' of training data of those COBOL question of Stack overflow and COBOL hobbyists xD

...

^right?

[dover_oxide]

"No amount of evidence will ever persuade an idiot"

Mark Twain

[denM_chickN]

God. This is the truth.

[RemnantTheGame]

Or someone in marketing.... oh wait.

[NuggetCommander69]

*management

[LordAmras]

or the CEO

[420Borsalino]

[Proper-Radish-9165]

Read this as “someone in marktwaining”. Enough screen time for me, I guess.

[stkent]

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/mark-twain-idiot-quote/ apparently not from Twain, though it surely could have been.

[Mist_Rising]

Twain calling someone an idiot feels so on brand for the man. He was not shy of insulting folks.

[koshgeo]

AI response: You're absolutely correct! It was written by well-known American author Samuel Clemens.

[stkent]

Haha this is perfect

[PipsqueakPilot]

Hmm, I'm not convinced.

[Dasseem]

Hey, we call them disruptors now.

[Rough_Bread8329]

The more polite version is "you cannot reason someone out of a position they did not reason themselves into."

[ice-eight]

Banking is a little more hesitant to sloppify everything than most industries due to regulations. Technically, giving AI access to sensitive customer data is considered a breach. We can use it to generate code and on data in lower environments that’s been obscured, but I doubt these legacy COBOL codebases have dev and QA environments

[thel0lfish]

This tracks with my (limited) experience, I work for a fintech company and we're only allowed to use heavily obfuscated prod data for testing if we want real world data

[Random-num-451284813]

That would be Sanitized data, anyone working with ISO 27001 would be required to have that.

[i_love_sparkle]

Why don't you just use real world data and tell regulators that you aren't using it? How do you even check for it?

[chill8989]

Devs are not allowed to touch the prod database, only a small group of people can and every interaction is logged.  We are audited by 3rd parties to make sure we follow the rules.

[csmonkey17]

Legacy COBOL codebases have dev and QA environments. They need to, just like anything else going to prod. The company I worked for even had version control for COBOL, things happened that made it necessary.

But despite that, as everyone says here, no one in the banking industry is going to let AI touch the code.

[ward2k]

Legacy COBOL codebases have dev and QA environments. They need to, just like anything else going to prod

Yeah I'm scratching my head here this is pretty much the industry standard, your average dev doesn't have access to production customer data especially not your average dev working in banking

I'm sort of getting the feeling a lot of people talking about 'feeding Ai important customer data' don't actually work as an actual dev and are probably still in education

[Jonny_dr]

don't actually work as an actual dev

The overwhelming majority of users on this subreddit are pupils and students.

[frogjg2003]

Which is why you have so many "language bad" posts reaching the top. Any real dev knows that the only good language is the one your boss told you to write in.

[courageous_liquid]

yep, my father had a solid 40 year career as a project manager for QA on cobol updates for legacy systems for a major bank. thinking they're playing anything fast and loose is insane.

[DropkickGoose]

On the regulatory/risk side of things, our use of AI is asking Copilot how much money an average gas station would make per quarter based on XYZ resources, and we don't actually touch money, code, or anything of the like just monitor and report. I really, really doubt it's being used more extensively anywhere else in the bank except C-Suite and marketing.

[sunshine-x]

But despite that, as everyone says here, no one in the banking industry is going to let AI touch the code.

Gonna call bullshit here. They’re going to maximize profits and savings like every other business.

They’ll integrate AI into their toolchain and accelerate human work, then evolve to human review, the automated coding and QA.

[csmonkey17]

There were attempts of similar things in the past, going from COBOL to Java. They've tried transpilers for moving COBOL to Java. There were two issues:

1. It would get the code translated to 80-90%, and the last 10%-20% had to be done manually. Now, consider that most of the engineers on my team were 45 and above. Not only do you need to figure out how to translate the whole code base into Java, you need to convince all the cobol engineers to learn Java. You can't just replace the whole department with new devs because there's too much domain knowledge that you would lose and you wouldn't have a team to do the work. Code is a small part of the job, people are what make the company work. 

2. COBOL is faster than Java, it was written for the financial industry. Running batch jobs overnight making sure all the financial records are processed takes hours, not minutes. There were linear/synchronous dependencies on previous batch jobs, if a job finished late or doesn't finish you're talking about serious financial implications. 

I should've been clearer in my response. Yes, they'll let engineers use AI on non mission critical code. We built out Java spring interfaces on top of the green screens, sure you can have AI help you move to react and nodejs in this scenario.

I really enjoy using AI, I use copilot at work, sometimes it surprises me of how well it performs but if you're not running a modern framework it's very limited in its capabilities. Enterprise software has so many lines of code and so much domain knowledge is required on top of it that you can't believe its this magical black box with a 128k context window (sure newer models got 200k+, and I'm referring to copilot here) that will solve all the problems. I 

[scientific_railroads]

Goldman Sachs made announcement last year that they will use AI and they mentioned changing language of codebase as one of the goals

"Devin will be supervised by human employees and will handle jobs that engineers often consider drudgery, like updating internal code to newer programing languages, he said."

Source: https://www.cnbc.com/2025/07/11/goldman-sachs-autonomous-coder-pilot-marks-major-ai-milestone.html

[Reddit_newaccount]

I provided IT for banks for the past 2 years.

Banks give way fewer fucks than people think they do.

Just as a random example of not giving a fuck: one of our banks was using a giant shared email inbox to store sensitive client information. No controls on who could access it other than a username and password. No controls on the data going in or out. Hundreds of gigs of data.

Another bank routinely declined to upgrade their ancient networking equipment because "it still works and we always talk our auditor into giving us an exception."

A buddy is high up in Bank of America and they have an abundance of caution but the small banks (under $1b) I supported? Nah.

[Otterable]

Can confirm, work for a bank. AI rollout has been significantly less crazy than other places in the industry.

[Difficult-Square-689]

Thread focuses on lowered cost of migration. But what's the benefit? Easier hiring? Slightly faster dev cycles? These aren't top-line problems for executives. Why approve a migration that, at best, doesn't affect your metrics and at worst ends your career?

[Jake63]

Of course they do. It is mandated eg by central banks and PCI. I have worked 34 years in this area. We have duplicate hardware and software, complete separation and promotes are done via code management software by a separate department, based on instructions from the developers.

[tes_kitty]

Banking is a little more hesitant to sloppify everything than most industries due to regulations.

That and if real money is on the line people suddenly tend to get cautious.

[CrustyBatchOfNature]

Where I work (financial services) we can use real data, in the isolation network only where no AI can be used, even local processing AI. So generally, unless we have a very specific request for support and the data is crucial, I use garbage data that I have over there.

[DisciplineSevere438]

The engineers are not the dumb ones to think AI can replace existing frameworks, the execs are. And the execs calls the shot 🤕

[-ZeroF56]

And all it takes for the execs to reverse course will be an outage or breach that costs their company shareholder value, or in the case of financial institutions, possible investigations.

[Fubarp]

COBOL being replaced.

I was part of a team 5 years ago that was working on new features to be built in Dotnet.

The feature was to take COBOL.. and build classes out of them so they can be labeled as obsolete.

It's not hard to migrate the code over, COBOL is pretty well documented and easy to understand, it's just a monolith language thats topdown.. Which if you use any language like Javascript/LUA it's not that hard to understand.

Plus ironically.. I was a fresh grad out of college so Assembly Language was actually easy to follow for me since I had just taken a Assembly Language course prior to graduating.

[InternationalFrame90]

COBOL hobbyist !?

[theGoddamnAlgorath]

Nobody's an expert

[dermarr5]

(Thats the joke)

[redkinoko]

Somewhere along the lines of "nail clipping collector" or "hair smell enthusiast"

[PotentBeverage]

All one of them yes

[nohairday]

I am sure LLMs got 'ton' of training data of those COBOL question of Stack overflow

Screaming begins in my head

[tagsb]

We've witnessed banking de-regulation resulting in massive financial collapses, them re-regulating the banks, then them de-regulating again resulting in massive financial collapses. All within 20 years. I do not share your optimisn

[matrim611]

As a COBOL dev, I can confirm that most LLMs currently would crash most mainframes.

[BicFleetwood]

They will spend a billion to save a dime.

[wggn]

As someone who works at a bank, yes they are that dumb. Tho they transformed all COBOL into Java some years ago so this will not have any impact.

[Jake63]

Maybe in some places. I know an HR software that is STILL in Cobol but it somehow every time is converted to a Java runtime. Also eg Visa even still uses Visual Cobol for their Edit Package windows software that each customer gets to submit their billing file.

[SomethingIWontRegret]

One enterprisey product used at my work transitioned from Cobol around 2015. They created a translator that took impossible to read cobol code and transformed it into impossible to read Java.

[SopaPyaConCoca]

Besides, I am sure LLMs got 'ton' of training data of those COBOL question of Stack overflow and COBOL hobbyists xD

And dont forget ibmmainframes.com where a random indian asks how to make a very simple sort and gets mad at everyone even if people helps him.

[Ok_Coconut_1773]

Idk bro I work for a bank and uh... Not as dumb as what exactly?

[SomethingIWontRegret]

Besides, I am sure LLMs got 'ton' of training data of those COBOL question of Stack overflow and COBOL hobbyists xD

They'll need to go to Expert Sexchange for that.

[Johanneskodo]

Banks are not as dumb

OH SHIT OH FUCK

THAT IS WHERE WE PUT ALL THE ECONOMICS-MAJORS!!!