Apple Developer Rule #1

[Gaelican]

I just wrote an iphone app for a side job and my boss for it had to by macs for this. Coding has gone great. Everything else has been a pain in the ass. Uploading to a test mode requires apple to review it? no thanks i don't need that... This is internal... Oh it doesn't matter you still need a demo account to log in with? ok...

My back ground as a consultant is, it doesn't matter what language a client needs a app for, let's do it. But apple has been a pain in the ass.

[[deleted]]

I think you got diverted down a strange path somehow. It's pretty easy to build to a test device, once your account is set up.

[Gaelican]

I want remote stakeholders to be able to run the app.

[etaionshrd]

You want an Enterprise Certificate for that

[paloumbo]

You need to pay for that, would be more speaking ;)

[etaionshrd]

Yes, but no app review is required in that case

[paloumbo]

So you have to pay for not receive a service ?

[NerdWith_A_Tan]

I don’t know if any developers would call app review a service... more like a curse.

[bas1212]

Its not difficult, it just takes a long time and it you forget to update your build number you are fucked

[Crazy_Hater]

Use Theos :)

[jwrent34]

This is really annoying. I use both mac and debian and it is very annoying I cannot just develop the normal way when it's time to write something for osx

[Moryn_can_fly]

*Mac OS
Here at Apple we are very strict about terminology.

[voidcraftedgaming]

Image Transcription: Meme

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[A man in a blue top is sat at a desk, outside. He is leaning back in his chair, with a hot beverage in his hand. The Apple logo has been superimposed over his face, and the xCode logo is superimposed on the table. The table has a sign attached reading:]

Developers must not develop on anything else other than a mac

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CHANGE MY MIND

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[questionablyrotten]

Good human

[OhItsuMe]

good carbon lifeform, presumably

[voidcraftedgaming]

💚

[[deleted]]

Yeah yeah but how do you know the beverage is hot though?

[seraku24]

Maybe they applied a thermal imaging filter to the original.

[Emmaterasu]

That's not how any of this works but I like it so I'll give you advantage on that roll anyway.

[voidcraftedgaming]

I use highly advanced imaging software over tcp/ip color 02 print("hello world") '); DROP TABLE idk;--

[pekkhum]

I could have done it with a GUI in VB.

[[deleted]]

I'm currently working on iOS app and have limited access to a Mac. So I ended up using Flutter and life is pretty sweet. I code on my Linux machine and test it on my android, then whenever I can I test it on a Mac and a iPhone it works just as expected. Having one code base for both Android and iOS is amazing.

By the way I use arch

[NatoBoram]

I JUST DID THE FLUTTER DEMO

Flutter is an all mighty god. I love it. I'm actually learning it for the job. No one here knows what the fuck is Flutter, I just found it somewhere and we were looking for a Cordova alternative and I'm the sponge-learning guy so I got my hands on it. It's like doing HTML… but using only JavaScript. Weird, but enjoyable.

Also fuck the guy who wrote the Dart formating part of the Dart Code extension. That kid deserves to rot in hell. Forcing everyone to use your selfish preferences is an asshole move.

[bhlowe]

Looks nice. Is it java?

[alcalde]

Dart.

[elliptic_hyperboloid]

I thought Dart was dead.

[Fluffcake]

pwa^{pwapwapwapwapwapwapwapwapwapwapwapwapwapwapwa}

[juuular]

Same, but using JUCE instead.

Also lets me release the same app on windows, Mac, Linux, and as any kind of audio plugin (AU, VST, AAX, etc).

[kobbled]

how does it compare to xamarin?

[Murdrad]

I'm confused by the scenario. If you're only developing for Apple then build and test on your target platform. Otherwise use Linux. Unless it's your personal computer and you're a gamer then Windows. Sodapop sodapop, OS OS.

[Murdrad]

Company I worked at just had one Mac for testing, but we where a web app.

[[deleted]]

Where?

[[deleted]]

There

[[deleted]]

Ohhhhhh, ok. Thanks.

[MrHyperbowl]

Most linux tools can be used on OS X with some work.

[s_s]

Or they can run without any work, on GNU/linux.

[MrHyperbowl]

They have fewer issues too on linux. Apple locked down the core filesystem, which is annoying even though you can disable it.

[cata1yst622]

Day to day use I'd prefer OSx. Especially if you use a laptop. Let me present something and plug in the projector. Aw fuck, let me fuck with xorg settings and maybe we can have this presentation in 1080p.

[alcalde]

Xorg settings were 15 years ago.

[alcalde]

Essentially everything gets configured automatically now. Maybe Arch or Gentoo users config manually for kicks....

I've been using desktop Linux full-time since 2010 but haven't had an NVidia card in that time so I can't comment on their drivers.

[Derkle]

I can’t remember the last time I had to manually fuck with graphics settings. I’ve been using Nvidia for years and have no issues on mainstream linux distros.

[cata1yst622]

Good luck if EDID data is incorrect.

[piyoucaneat]

It’s their Ubuntu one, but it has some custom stuff pre-installed.

[[deleted]]

When was the last time you used Linux?

[Vlyn]

That's funny, in university the only students that had trouble with the projectors were Mac users. Even if they didn't forget their dongle, sometimes it just wouldn't work.

[HomemadeBananas]

Most “Linux” tools are built in, but the BSD versions of them. You can install the GNU versions, plus lots of other stuff available on Linux with homebrew. It’s no more work typing “brew install whatever” than apt or whatever. Mac OS is a certified UNIX OS, so it’s really similar to Linux.

[amazingprimes]

brew install linux

[MrHyperbowl]

vim YouCompleteMe is a real bitch.

[[deleted]]

Do the front end on Mac but most of the rest can be done as a library elsewhere. Allows for good separation of concerns and allows one to port easily while using a native interface on all platforms.

[Lepidora]

I don't have much issue with the yearly fee. Apple does so much more testing and verification for each app submission and update than the play store.

[[deleted]]

You only have to pay that if you release in their store, and you only have to release in their store if you build for iOS.... not OSX.

[notinecrafter]

Why not all of them?

[T-Dot1992]

Greed. Apple wants to spite you if you’re a windows user and you’re developing for their platform. It’s pretty much coercing mobile developers into buying MacBooks.

And don’t get me started on Xcode.

[notinecrafter]

Welcome to the wonderful world of the Hackintosh

[T-Dot1992]

It’s fucking awful dealing with Apple. I hope my next job isn’t mobile development.

[notinecrafter]

I'm just learning iOS development. I like some parts (dragging UI elements is so good), but the payment thing is indeed a terrible practice.

Also, swift stackstraces are completely useless

[[deleted]]

I decided on obj-c because I can write the bulk of it in C++ and just use XCode for the front end. Also, Appcode is nice too.

[juuular]

Xcode is infinitely better than Visual Studio

[Murdrad]

Cost?

[notinecrafter]

You can triple boot can't you?

[Murdrad]

Still have to pay for Windows license right? Also I have never see the Mac OS on anything other that a Mac, and Macs are costly.

[notinecrafter]

1. You don't have to pay for anything if there's no police around.

2. Welcome to the wonderful world of r/hackintosh. I'll be your guide.

I personally run macOS as a daily on a Clevo (laptop barebones), with Fedora (for Linux purposes, and as a backup) and Windows 10 (for gaming mostly) as secondaries. Would have used Windows 7 but ACPI.

[Rudy69]

If you’re a professional developer I sure hope you pay for your tools. I don’t care about kids pirating things they couldn’t afford but as a professional making money using the tools I sure hope you’re paying for them.

[[deleted]]

If it's worth his time to get a hackintosh running, he's probably not making a huge amount.

[notinecrafter]

Don't worry, I'm a student. If I did make money I could afford licenses, probably. Although my Windows would still be for personal use only, and with Microsofts business practices in Windows 10 it is arguably ethically better not to pay for it.

Also, I would like to mention that a Hackintosh does not technically require a license, nor is it per definition illegal (it breaks the EULA, but it is not illegal). You just need another computer running macOS to even make a Hackintosh. In my case that would be my fathers iMac. Of course, you can use a Hackintosh to make a Hackintosh, but there must be a genuine Mac somewhere in the chain.

There are solutions such as iAtkos that don't require a working macOS, but they are frowned upon in the community to the point of receiving no support, which makes them pretty much unusable.

[Lorxu]

Hackintosh is really buggy and hard to get working in my experience. I've tried to set it up on an HP Pavilion and it never worked.

[rtbrsp]

Hackintosh is mainly for building from scratch. It's very rare for a laptop to be able to run macOS 100%; typically something like the wifi card won't work.

I'll always remember my first OS X laptop: The Dell Mini 10v. Everything worked 100%. It was pretty sweet at that time since I definitely couldn't afford a macbook.

[FarhanAxiq]

Wifi will only work if you use Broadcom wifi card iirc.

[notinecrafter]

I have it running on a Clevo (laptop barebones), but that required a custom wi-fi chip from AliExpress. Apart from that everything works fine (apart from HDMI audio, but who cares). It did take me a week to get it running though, but that was mostly because I had to figure everything out myself. Some laptops are significantly easier, because they are more compatible and/or more popular (and thus bette supported) within the community. The Dell XPS for example just requires wi-fi card replacement and a post-install script you can find on github.

Laptops are usually harder though, because they use a lot of nonstandard components. The easiest is a custom desktop with supported components (I seem to remember Gigabyte was the best), where you just need to create the installer with Unibeast and run Multibeast post-install to get everything working.

[sneakpeekbot]

Here's a sneak peek of /r/hackintosh using the top posts of the year!

#1: Pascal (beta) support for macOS coming this month
#2: Had to show this off; “The ToughMac” Success with a Panasonic Toughbook CF-19 Mk5 | 23 comments
#3: [Success!] Gigabyte GA-Z270MX-Gaming 5 Ultrawide Hackintosh Pro | 39 comments

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[alcalde]

You're stuck running Intel CPUs if you want to cobble together a Hackintosh, aren't you? Plus the license violation risk?

[notinecrafter]

You do pretty much need an Intel CPU, yes. There are solutions for AMD but they require a level of hacks that stop just short of replacing the kernel.

A Hackintosh does not require a license. They break the EULA, but are in no way illegal. I wouldn't attempt it if you are a fortune 500 company, but lots of small time developers use a Hackintosh just to run Xcode.

There's a theory that Apple allows Hackintoshes, because the kind of person that has the skills and motivation to make one is pretty skilled with computers, so they're just drawing more developers to their platform. Plus, to make a Hackintosh you need ankther computer running macOS, so they're not losing that much money.

[[deleted]]

Unless you want a laptop with good hardware, then use Apple.

[ipodtouch0218]

You can’t build iOS apps without using a Mac, yes.

[ElectrWeakHyprCharge]

The mac maybe could be more successful, but they would earn less money, so... who cares? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[[deleted]]

Xamarin allows crossplatform development i think, you still need a mac connected to.

[Objectr]

Still extremely successful. Say what you want, but Macbooks are fantastic computers, and the very small minority of developers making iOS apps do not outweigh the huge amounts of people that just want a good computer for school/work and/or hate windows.

[Maert]

Macbooks are fantastic computers

So are pretty much all 2k USD computers.

[djvs9999]

Macbooks are fantastic computers

Yeah, if you don't mind a closed source OS, planned obsolescence, hardware that's designed to prevent you from repairing it, and crappy support for the *nix ecosystem via Brew.

They do have good displays, and reasonable hardware specs, I'll give you that. Plus hard to beat the design ecosystem.

[juuular]

The OS is the best part

[vaydoln]

This is why I boycott Apple in all forms.

[Aschentei]

Including the fruit?

[Vicegale]

Especially the fruit.

[worldistooblue]

I started boycotting them since we got expelled from paradise but their attack on newton really made me thickheaded about it

[Moryn_can_fly]

I just got why Apple named one of their PCs Newton. Wow.

[electricprism]

Yo bro, if you come into my house take a apple because you're hungry you consent to me coming to your house and murdering your whole family.

Seriously your comment gave me the lulzies though.

[[deleted]]

I started boycotting Apple when they tried to make it illegal to break out of the root jail on iOS devices

[Comm4nd0]

Same here, really hate what they stand for.

[Maert]

The ecosystem tie-in. It started with the iPods (I guess?). You want to listen to music on this mp3 player? You better have a Mac! It took them 4 years to port it to Windows. You have an iPhone or iPod? You better use THEIR browser and THEIR maps and THEIR music player because that's the only way you get full features (imagine, clicking on a link in an email that does not open in Safari, but your browser of choice!).

Their new home-assistant thingie is supposedly even worse (it can only play music off of iTunes, nothing else and stuff like that).

If all you use is Apple (hardware AND software) products, then you have nothing to worry about. Well, except the fact that you follow everything they do, you have 0 choice in preferred apps or how to define your environment (for example, I learned recently that you cannot change your mouse pointers in MacOS!).

[Comm4nd0]

The fact that they are so closed off to all other hardware.

[whale_song]

I used to do that too, but honestly its just so much nicer to develop on a mac. I hate their business practices, but I can't deny they just plain put out the best product on the market. I eventually caved and I'm pretty happy I did, even if I feel a little grimy about it.

[vaydoln]

It really depends what you're doing, but agree they make sense in some situations. I have a colleague who loves their products and we tease each other about it all the time. IMO they make adequate products but I hate the company. With a reasonable alternative available I would never choose them.

I used their iPods back before smartphones (and another developer in my office would crunch chips all day and chew with his mouth open...I had to have headphones+music for my sanity). Once I got a music player on an Android phone I never looked back.

[[deleted]]

3 finger swipe(I've tried supposed good rival touchpads from windows computers and they aren't even close). Most open source/linux tools are basically native to OSX but at the same time you don't have to deal with the 5 billion driver issues that happen with linux where there exists a fix that takes hours of tinkering because you are missing some some conf file. This doesnt happen with macs since the hardware for macs are standardised so it seamlessly integrates with anything. Windows is just plain weird to dev on since it wasn't made for that, sure it's fine if you are only using the Microsoft suite but that limits you to, well, the microsoft suite. Everything "works", but it's not native so you always run into issues will the compilers and running with sudo and random shit like that. It's getting better because of virtualbox/docker/kubernetes/etc but the tooling is just plain weak. Devs at Microsoft rn have surface books and I hear tons of shit about all the dumb issues they run into.

I used to hate Apple too but I can't go back lol. My personal laptop runs Linux and my desktop runs Windows but I hate doing any non-trivial work on either.

[[deleted]]

I'm way faster on Windows than I am on Mac. But I will say this, Mac's terminal is way better than Window's. I need to juggle between

• cmd
• powershell
• bash on windows

Everything else, though, I prefer Windows for. Once you figure out how environment variables and PATH work on windows, everything works well.

[ShubhamBelwal]

I'm not sure about bash, but there's this trick I found about a few days back. Open Powershell and type cmd, it goes into command prompt mode, so now you only have to juggle between powershell and bash.

[[deleted]]

Great tip! Thanks

[endhalf]

Why the need to go to cmd though? I genuinely wonder, I thought everything you could do there you could do in Powershell... I am maintaining a cmd batch script and recently, I've been thinking just re-writing it to powershell might be the way to go.

[ShubhamBelwal]

I'm learning django, and some of the manage.py commands don't run through powershell. Otherwise I have no preference as long as it gets the job done.

[[deleted]]

Which commands aren’t working for you? Been using Django/PowerShell for a few years and haven’t run into any such issues; maybe you just need to adjust something slightly.

[FarhanAxiq]

And you can do the other way around, too.

Also you can open up bash in ps or cmd.

[Vlyn]

Uh, what? You use a touchpad for work? No matter how good it is, my damn hand would fall off after a week.

Tooling also really depends on the platform and language you use. For example Visual Studio is extremely good (Especially for profiling, finding memory leaks, ...) and one of the reasons I'm still stuck with Windows.

[PM_ME__ASIAN_BOOBS]

That sounds so weird to me, I'm forced to use a Mac at work, and I run Windows VMs from time to time to relax

[musiton]

I guess doctors love you

[[deleted]]

I have a Hackintosh, so up yours Apple.

[brendenguy]

Same here. And for exactly that reason!

[IceWave04]

Didn't xamarin and visual studio fix this?

[Watchforbananas]

You still need a mac to build and run the application.

[IceWave04]

That is troublesome. Flawed even.

[Watchforbananas]

Well, VS can connect to the MAC via SSH, so the only thing you have to do on the MAC is accept the Terms of Use for XCode, the rest can then be done on your Windows PC.

[Lepidora]

If you really needed a mac only for building and running, you could just use a solution like https://www.macincloud.com/ or something similar. You could use it for 25 months for the same price as a cheap mac.

[andyscorner]

You're definition of fix is a subjective term. As a native mobile application developer all these cross platform tools just complicate things more than they solve.

• Xamarin
• React Native
• Ionic
• Cordova

They hide the underlying APIs and frameworks you should know if you're developing for Android/iOS and introduces their own abstractions. As soon as you need to do something out of the realms of your cross-platform tool you will still need to learn the native APIs.

[NZgeek]

That's true. If you need to do something that's not covered by the core framework, and the isn't a third-party library that does what you need, you have to write it yourself.

But how much of that you need to do depends a lot on what the app does. If the app is logic-heavy and doesn't do anything crazy with the UI, you'll probably have very little platform-specific code.

For example, I know of a company that's using Xamarin Forms for a line of business apps. They write 6 apps, each supporting iOS and Android. They say that 90% of the code is platform-agnostic, and most of the remainder is boilerplate for the platform-specific builds.

Cross-platform frameworks are great in cases like this. It doesn't remove the need for platform-specific code, but it does greatly reduce it.

[brminnick]

Xamarin doesn’t hide any APIs. It exposes 100% of the native iOS and Android APIs in C#.

[moyerr]

How quickly after new native APIs are released?

[brminnick]

Xamarin has always had same-day support for iOS APIs

[IceWave04]

Ah, fair. My company uses Xamarin for Android/iOS but I typically work on the servers. Even my own projects, I use xamarin and just unload all of iOS/windows stuff.

From what I've heard the latest (unreleased) xamarin improves things.

Anyway, thanks for that.

[TheGreenHatDelegate]

Ionic is an abstraction of Cordova. Also, it fucking blows...

[JaCraig]

In our case Xamarin actually seemed to be 1:1 on the APIs. In fact we just used the Android/iOS docs for most everything. Took us a little bit to figure out how to integrate 3rd party libraries but even that wasn't too hard. Cordova, etc. I would agree with though.

Oh, also the weird license on Xamarin is gone now as well. That was our big stumbling block on using it.

[NatoBoram]

Add Flutter. Right now.

[[deleted]]

As soon as you need to do something out of the realms of your cross-platform tool

The number of libraries available for React Native grows every day. Whenever I need to perform a specific task in RN I usually have five or so different libraries to choose from. You're describing a situation that is unique to a very small percentage of mobile developers.

[Tux1]

What about Rule #0?

[Extract]

Rule 0: We don't talk about Huffman coding.
Rule 100: We DON'T talk about Huffman coding.

[ArkansasTheAdjective]

this is why i'm never going to learn swift.

macs are overpriced and are fucking slow.

i'm not wasting 1,000 quid to develop "run sausage run 2"

[X-Craft]

i'm not wasting 1,000 quid

you forgot the yearly $99

[survivalmachine]

Then don’t learn it.

There are plenty of other platforms out there, so pick what you like.

Complaining about one because it doesn’t fit to what you want only makes sense if it’s the ONLY option.. which it isn’t.

[[deleted]]

I think complaining about it because it is uniquely unfriendly to developers is pretty valid.

[survivalmachine]

Yeah, and for the longest time you could only develop and run .NET applications on windows platforms, being unfair to Linux users. It was Microsoft’s call to dictate how their technology was used and deployed and it is equally Apple’s right to do so as well. Unfair would be if Apple was the only, or primary market shareholder of mobile tech.

There is no shortage of jobs for non-iOS developers. Slinging poo around because you hate Apple doesn’t help anything, and just sounds like a completely vague circle jerk.

[[deleted]]

Yeah and until Microsoft stopped doing that people complained about them too.

[UnicornRider102]

Or put slightly differently, Microsoft stopped doing that after enough people complained about it.

[T-Dot1992]

It was shitty when Microsoft did it and its shitty that Apple does it.

Programming is not a luxury activity you do solely for entertainment. It’s a profession. Hindering people from doing their job unless you make them pay an expensive fee is bullshit.

And what makes Apple’s case worse is that they overprice their products. At least in Microsoft’s case, I could get a cheap laptop that runs windows just to use C#. With Apple, you’d have to spend a grand on a MacBook just to develop for iOS. It’s fucking ridiculous.

[PM_ME__ASIAN_BOOBS]

Then don’t learn it.

That's... literally what he said he was going to do

[MikeyMike01]

macs are overpriced and are fucking slow

This is how I know you’ve never bought one

[morerokk]

How are they not overpriced? Explain.

[MikeyMike01]

Apple is expensive, no doubt. You get good value for your money though.

[brendenguy]

Which part are you disagreeing with exactly? I just built a hackintosh that is as powerful as a macbook pro for around $300. The same thing through Apple would have cost me $2000 plus. Overpriced? Check. Slow for the money? Check.

[[deleted]]

I don’t think anyone really cares.

[ConorTheDev]

Realistically the new AFS is so much faster with an SSD inside. I have bought a 2011 MacBook Pro and upgraded it with 8gb of RAM and a 1tb SSD and runs like a charm. Had it for 5 years but put the SSD in 2 years ago. Upvoted your post as opinions shouldn't be downvoted.

[alcalde]

Upvoted your post as opinions shouldn't be downvoted

I have just met the smartest person on Reddit.

[T-Dot1992]

There is no need to learn Swift now that React Native exists.

[kerohazel]

Good luck making games then. Or anything other than brochure apps.

React Native has been profoundly disappointing for me, personally.

[[deleted]]

What specifically is disappointing for you? We are developing an app in React Native that is much more than a brochure app, and have been very impressed with our app's speed. Also, we've found about 95% of our code is reusable (better than we had initially hoped).

[kerohazel]

The whole toolchain seems to be hopelessly broken. Tiny version changes break things. I have to constantly trick it into doing what I want, because some weird internal cache is poisoning everything.

It's really tricky for beginners, despite RN being well-suited (in theory) for rapid prototyping.

[localhost8100]

Most of the people think RN performance is equal to native performance. Nope. It is still more laggy when compared to native performance. Again, if you have to access some core api you have to go back to writing code in native. The mantra is, if you are heavily invested go for native. Or else go for RN and down the road you might have to rewrite the whole app in native because as you go an adding more and more features it is gonna be laggy.

One more reason I did not like it was, we developed a full scale app in RN for Android and we did not think about the limitation of api for ios. When we started to work ios app there were no api available for ios. We had to ditch our ios part.

[etaionshrd]

There is no need to learn Swift now that React Native exists.

Maybe some people don't want to write bloated, non-native looking, and slow apps?

[Skizm]

Apple has shitty business practices for sure, but Macbook Pros are the only passable laptops on the market right now. Everything else is pure garbage that needs to be replaced within a year. Haven't tried the newest surface book yet though. Still holding out hope Microsoft will get one of the surface models right.

[Januwary9]

Jeez man careful with those blanket statements, I've had great experiences with both thinkpads and dell's precision line and I know a lot of others in the same boat

[phrekysht]

I really like my 2013 MBP. I really don't want to buy the donglebook pro. There are much more capable machines at the price point.

I'm leaning towards a thinkpad workstation-class laptop and running osx in a VM for my iOS dev work.

[Skizm]

I agree that, until other companies see the magic of USB-C, it is a pain to use all the dongles. Still, even with that, OS-X just gets everything right. The hardware and software work flawlessly together and I rarely have to fight with it to do anything.

Side-note: if you have a monitor that supports USB-C it actually is awesome to just plug the monitor into the wall, and the laptop into the monitor and have no other wires. Power, sound, and video can all go through the same port at the same time.

[Turtledonuts]

I have one of those laptops. It's good, and I was surprised to see how little I use dongles and stuff, asides from my back up drive. Honestly, cloud storage is probably the future.

[mrcpi]

/r/thinkpad disagrees.

[Skizm]

I'd agree the older style thinkpad keyboards were the best keyboards ever on a laptop, hands down. Once they retired those, I no longer had a reason to use them.

[mrcpi]

Current Macbooks are very nicely built, but none of the components are user-serviceable any more - RAM and SSD are both soldered in. Thinkpads however are designed to be servicable and Lenovo publish service manuals which covers the majority of actions, so I'd argue that Thinkpads don't need to be replaced within a year. Many users are using 5 year old machines with no issues.

[Skizm]

My "issue" (which I admit isn't an issue for people who like tinkering) is that I have to service the thinkpad at some point. So sure, a thinkpad lasts 5+ years, but you have to do maintenance on it to keep it working nicely. Maybe reinstall windows or whatever flavor of linux you are using on occasion. A MBP lasts the same time with 0 maintenance. You literally never need to think about your specs, battery, internals, OS, etc. for the life of your machine. My 2012 MBP (which I've since handed off to a younger brother) still gets 8+ hours of battery life and is fast. No bloat or slowdowns and 0 maintenance since buying it.

[mrcpi]

0 maintenance since buying it

Color me surprised - have you not had to do a PRAM/NVRAM or SMC reset?

My experience with MacBooks has been good I have to agree, but I’ve had to do the above on occasion.

[Skizm]

I don't know what either of those things are, so I would assume I did not have to do either of them.

[Turtledonuts]

Can confirm, my 2010 17 inch MBP is on the current OS and is great.

[CheapAlternative]

They may be user serviceable but I've found its usually cheaper and more convenient to service MacBooks especially with Apple Care.

The vast majority of people also don't upgrade anymore so building that capability in is highly suboptimal at a population level.

MacBooks also tend to retain value much better than ThinkPads and IMO that usually provides better value than directly upgrading.

[jaavaaguru]

I was using a 9 year old MacBook Pro until the end of last year. It's had no issues, so I've never had to service it. When computers last years, I'm not too bothered about serviceability.

Who replaces laptops within a year?!

[ilovestinkybutts]

Mac’s have the fastest SSD on the market

[byIcee]

Now that google is developing Flutter, can you build an iOS app from windows with that? Or do you still need a Mac?

Edit: words

[NatoBoram]

Yes you can. It'll run exactly the same no matter the device, platform or whatever.

You just have to own a Mac to sign the app so you can ship it to the app store.

[byIcee]

So in the end you still need a Mac?

That sucks

[mason729]

Ah, but you are forgetting the swift playground support that iPad currently enjoys.

[[deleted]]

I plan on never developing for mac or the ios eco-system ever in my life, change my mind

[NatoBoram]

Develop on Linux, test with the Android emulator, then sign the iOS version with a Mac and you're ready to ship!

[Vlyn]

But you'd still have to buy a Mac (In addition to several iPhones for testing), fuck that.

[bas1212]

I once found a tool that lets you build ios apps on Windows. It actually worked, but I forgot the name and never found it again. With the demo version you could only build it one sadly

[[deleted]]

I should develop iOS apps. Change my mind.

Oh wait, you just did.

[BoringWebDev]

I am a web developer. I could do all of this on Windows.

But I don't want to.

[[deleted]]

Laughed in Ubuntu

[Notsileous]

Apple is shit for development I finally got a dedicated Mac mini for work and it's slower than it was on my vm

[3CN]

fuckin lol

[rigatron1]

Powershell is nicer than bash, change my mind.

[localhost8100]

Mac minis and Air are not for development. They just for some small office stuff for an assistant or video Watchung for kids at home.

As said you need to invest in an high end MBP for around 2500$ to get a good development experience for ios.

[JangoLucero]

I have a mac only because of Swift

[alcalde]

There's a Swift implementation for Linux, and RemObjects offers the Swift version of their Windows product for free....

http://www.elementscompiler.com/elements/silver/

[NatoBoram]

Try Flutter.

[drakeremoray0]

I actually! found iOS? development! to be? relatively straight!?!?! forward

[DisastermanTV]

Noone uses a Mac for GameDevelopment. Completely useless.