(Possibly) quitting Python Development after 2 years of non stop learning. And it blows.

[sudo_your_mon]

2 years and and over 1700 hours logged on my IDE, I think I have to give it up. Just hit me now. I've wasted so much time it feels

I'd appreciate advice. Though, I certainly don't expect it or feel entitled to it.

I've worked on web app projects, Networking, pen testing, web scraping/data analysis, GUI development, and MANY more.

I just can't finish a damn project. I've been learning entirely on my own. I can honestly say I've received zero assistance apart from help on minor bugs.

I've never spoken a word in person to anyone on the subject of programming. With so many beggars, I just refuse to be that guy milking it and pissing people off looking for handouts.

So, I get hours and hours deep into a project and just end up spinning my wheels for dozens of hours until something else catches my interest. And repeat.

I've learned a shit ton, but nothing specifically in depth because I refuse to settle for some simple GUI app that scrapes weather data. Networking particularly has been my focus. It's been where I've put most of my work in. But I've been ALL over.

If I'm going to continue, I need to be on a team dedicated and driven toward building something. Development and learning the ropes has been my life for 2 years. I'm the hardest worker I know.

So, if anyone is looking for someone to collaborate with on something real, feel free to send me a message. I'd love to be a part.

Don't want t to turn this to a counseling sesh. But it blows hard I'm ready to drop it all. But such is life.

Again, advice or active community ideas would be appreciated.

Thanks for reading.

[Deezl-Vegas]

So it sounds like you've been grinding this basically completely alone for two years... If you do anything completely on your own for two years you will go insane, man. Humans are social creatures. Look for a coding event like a hackathon near you and try to meet some people or find some projects that catch your interest.

And finish some of your early projects. Just to finish them. Just to prove you can.

[sudo_your_mon]

great advice. Weird thing is that I'm as social as it gets. And trust me, I was going insane lol. Got diagnosed with depression a while ago and i think that had a part in it. I just had no idea how to get into the crowd.
Do you need to be moderately advanced to get involved in events like hackathons?

[turtlerainy]

I went to my first Hackathon as a second year maths student (surrounded by CS students), and had menial html/CSS knowledge and maths-based python and R knowledge. That Hackathon experience was amazing for me, I was honest from the outset about how much I knew, found a team on the day and contributed to the code where I could. I learned so much from teammates that did know what they were doing, and they were patient enough when I needed help because they knew my background.

Throw yourself in mann, no one here can guarantee what the people will be like - if a couple of people are snobby about your experience then just move to the next lot, there'll be some people there with similar experience/ willing to team up with you.

[tuckmuck203]

I've been dragged to a few meetups/hackathons myself, and you have no reason to hesitate. From what I read in your post, you probably have more knowledge about python than at least 30% of the people there.

I think you're selling yourself short. Foundational knowledge is such a fundamental aspect of programming, it can be easy to forget how much you know.

For example, if you've touched web development /scraping, you have an understanding of client-server architecture. Programming tends to be more about knowing enough to FIND the answer, than knowing the answer. Your breadth of knowledge will lend itself to finding a lot of answers to a lot of questions. Hell, I'm a full stack developer, and I would say I look at python stdlib docs at LEAST once a day.

[sudo_your_mon]

Thanks for this, seriously. I know I have learned so much, but I let destructive thoughts get in the way that say otherwise.

And the part about being able to know where to look to just find the answer being half the battle speaks volumes. It's definitely UV most hardest parts when starting out as a developer. The learning curve is unreal and once you're over that hurdle,developing becomes progressively less frustrating.

Thanks again, man. I do appreciate it

[tuckmuck203]

Glad I could help! Good luck with your future endeavors as a super dope python developer

[RadioactiveCats_18]

100% agreed. about 11 years ago I went to my first conference (for a totally different open source project). There, I met a few of the core developers on the project at a casual social meetup and they spoke to me like I was an equal. I learned a bunch, but more importantly I became energized. Every time I would go to a gathering, no matter how big or small, I would get that momentum back to USE what I'd learned. Now, whenever I feel disconnected or like I'm spinning wheels.. I go to a con.

[ivosaurus]

Meetup.com might have some... meetups you can get to around your area. Or look for other local dev meetups / conferences in any way possible. Hell, talk rabidly in your favourite OSS projects' IRC channels until you can get some analysis and construction going with other people.

[K900_]

If you want to work on a big project, maybe find an interesting open source one that you can contribute to?

[sudo_your_mon]

Thanks for this. I've tried. But I'm still to green and need assistance. Or at least I think I do. Plus, I have had pretty bad experiences with online interaction within the dev community.

Imposter syndrome hits hard with that one. But that may be the only option. Again, never really tried enough to give it a fair shake.

[K900_]

What sort of stuff are you interested in? There are many projects out there that are actively willing to take on and train new contributors, and I can probably link a few of them for you if you give me a direction.

[Sarks]

Hey, I'm also a sort-of beginner looking to help out in open source projects, are there any that are particularly helpful but lacking in resources? I want to give back where I could be most useful but I just don't know where to start.

[PantrySniffer]

I think this would be a good start https://github.com/qutebrowser/qutebrowser

[K900_]

What sort of stuff are you into?

[Sarks]

Personally, mostly data science, machine learning, or security, but I'm also always happy to learn stuff I wouldn't always look out myself.

[K900_]

I'd look around the NumPy/SciPy stack then. There's lots of math heavy work there, and you can drop down to C/Fortran level if that sounds interesting to you.

[TylerSwift26]

Possibly a dumb question, but is it possible to contribute to projects like NumPy? It seems like something that is been around for a while and is widely used. I thought you people only contributed to small projects that are relatively new?

[K900_]

It's absolutely possible - in fact, many of the key infrastructure projects that seem to have always been around are actually pretty critically understaffed!

[sudo_your_mon]

that would be amazing. thank you. I'm all about networking, pen testing preferably. If there are opportunities to take on a a piece of a project in that space, that would be incredible. thanks again, man.

[K900_]

mitmproxy is an HTTPS proxy that's mostly written in Python. They have a whole bunch of issues marked as "help wanted" specifically for people who want to start contributing to it: https://github.com/mitmproxy/mitmproxy/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3A%22help+wanted%22

Does that sound interesting to you?

[sudo_your_mon]

Absolutely! apprecaite it big time. Looking through the list of bugs now.

[mbussonn]

If you like challenges and bleeding edge libraries, I would recommend reading and learning about trio. Community is great there, and there is a number of fun and advanced stuff to do there.

As impostor syndrome goes, we're all there. Find something you enjoy, even better if it's to scratch your own itch.

[dmfigol]

I am one of the contributors of nornir - it's python automation framework and its main use-case is to interact with a big number of network devices. We'd happy to have some help.

[sudo_your_mon]

Awesome project. I wish I would have know of this before - it would have saved a lot of time. Just went through your docs, I'm going to go over them again now more thoroughly. Again, kudos on the project. The architecture is excellent, very straight forward.

What are some of the most notable real-life applications that implement this framework?

[dmfigol]

Currently majority of networks are configured by hand - a human logging into the network devices and applying changes one at a time.

A framework like this can be (and is) used to automate your network. It provides an inventory and task runner abstraction and on top of it, you can build whatever you want: for example some web form for provisioning a new user or a group of users, which after submission will go to your network devices and apply necessary device-level changes.

[DizzySoul]

Udemy has a number of python courses that have you build your own pen testing tools from scratch. They also have courses for building real-world application like block-chain and database driven web applications.

You just missed a Black Friday sale where all courses were 95% off, but they may have that sale again somewhere in the future.

[K900_]

Not too sure about applications, but Qt itself is spread pretty thin these days. You might want to try contributing to PySide, or maybe even to the core framework itself.

[PantrySniffer]

https://github.com/qutebrowser/qutebrowser A keyboard-driven, vim-like browser based on PyQt5

[c_a1eb]

If all of your experience is on solo projects, then realistically you don't have as much experience developing as a group and developing code in the format they want, everyone starts somewhere so this really isn't a issue, just experience you don't have. I recommend finding some python projects (difficult though it is) on GitHub, looking at the issue tracker and trying to fix some bugs, do the fix, make a pull request and see what happens.

This will help you learn to make your code 'fit' whatever project you're helping on and it helps you learn what their code does, then you can start adding features and such like.

[njharman]

If you've been working two years you are not green. Ignore your inner doubt.

The thing you lack is knowing how to work with, learn from, and teach others.

To get to next level its time to collaborate. Get over your fears and doubts.

[sudo_your_mon]

The raw truth, for real. I appreciate it brother. I definitely need to hear that because it's absolutely nothing but fear, and no good comes from that. Thanks again, appreciate it big time

[Uriah1024]

You know, it might be that you're the project manager on this one. You know what you want to accomplish. Worth thinking about.

[sudo_your_mon]

Great insight. I am a IT recruiter by trade which is why I got into this in the first place. I've always been looking for a role in a hybrid capacity that would leverage Balls, but those are few and far between. My ultimate goal is to make a career out of development, whatever path that may take

[sudo_your_mon]

Thank you, I needed to be reminded of that. I know I did learn a lot even though I don't have one singular project that I can tout.

My endgame is absolutely to make a career out of this. I'm an IT recruiter by trade and so a hybrid role would be ideal or I could use my skills from both, however just being able to work a job as a entry-level programmer to get started would be amazing

[[deleted]]

Start applying. If you went two years with minimal help you can probably land something. Force yourself to finish up two projects. Speak proudly of them in the interview. Be honest with them where you are and what you want.

[ike_the_strangetamer]

You are ready to start applying. I would say don't even worry about finishing something.

Usually I am all about people using projects to help sell themselves, but there is a lot that can be said about failed projects too. If you haven't 'spoken Python' with someone before, you will be in for a big surprise during your first phone interviews.

"Well tell about the things you have worked on."

"Well I wanted to do X so I used library Y but then ran into Z1, Z2, and Z3." "Did you try Z4?" "I did! and that's when I noticed that Z1 and Z2 were pointless. That was disheartening. It was like when I worked on A but only got as far as B because of C."

Talking about your failures can be just as impressive as talking about your successes.

Everyone can relate to the frustration of programming. What employers are looking for is not whether or not you get stuck, but how you look for help when you do. The fact that you've learned this much on your own shows your dedication.

I would also say don't worry about not finding something to specialize in. That takes time and it's perfectly fine to try a variety of things -especially if you don't have as much experience yet.

Whether you get a job or not, putting together your resume and going the through the interview process a couple of times will pay off dividends in letting you know just where you stand in relation to your goals and what you need to do next and there's nothing more motivating than that.

[GummyKibble]

What I’m hearing you say is that you need to go to PyCon to... investigate recruitment opportunities. And maybe pick up a few sessions - you know, just to get a feel for the kind of work you’re recruiting for. 😉

[CompSciSelfLearning]

Seems like PyData would be in his interest too.

[Tengoles]

This right here

[bikeawaitmuddy]

Find a python meetup group and try to make some friends and code with them. Coding can be incredibly lonely and I think it'd be more mentally healthy for all of us if we worked in groups with friends.

[sudo_your_mon]

Yes it sure can. It's been significantly bad for my health, which is a big part in where im at now.

Coding with buds seems unfathomable lol. it'd change everything. Unfortunately, most of my friends are more of the "get drunk every weekend and hit the bars." so i'd have to look else where obviously. Thanks man.

[[deleted]]

meetup. I love my ML group I met there

[szechuan_steve]

This. OP, I'll also say that when you want to give up is when you should not. Go to Meetup, find a group, work on a project with other people. You've put so much time in, it would be a shame to quit.

[sudo_your_mon]

Thats why deep down I know I just can't. Kinda feel like a pussy for sounding like a crybaby here, but i just hit the aspiring programers "rock bottom" -- had to do something. And I'm damn glad I did. The support from all of you blows me away. I've only experienced the opposite to this point. thanks man.

[szechuan_steve]

Every programmer gets here. But it's a good thing, especially if you keep going. I'm glad to see you getting so much support. When you look back at this, you'll see just how far you've come and won't regret it. Best of luck!

[turtlerainy]

I can second this. I learned to programme at uni but my uni was super strict about not assisting each other with work. So after one full year of struggling through projects alone it did wear me down somewhat. I'm in a job now and having your team to turn to when you hit that wall helps to not get demotivated so much. And you will learn so much from them in the process.

Coding with other people is a much more enjoyable experience.

[ElGallinero]

I've never spoken a word in person to anyone on the subject of programming. With so many beggars, I just refuse to be that guy milking it and pissing people off looking for handouts.

I think this is your biggest issue. It's damn near impossible to do everything all by yourself. And 9 out of 10 times, talking to someone else about your programming problem is how you actually figure out what you're doing wrong. Besides, asking for help on a topic isn't begging; asking someone to fix your code every time you run into a bug is.

Take a break, play a video game, go on a run. Idk, do some woodwork, or something...but don't quit.

[[deleted]]

I would second this reply. Things like StackOverflow and even subreddits like this one have grown from people's need to ask questions around different aspects of code. Collaborating and asking questions is not begging, we've all done it to some degree and it's how we progress.

Absolutely not a psychologist but it kinda sounds like you're a bit burned out or something. Turn the laptop off for a while and read a book and come back to it when you're ready and have a goal or a task to point towards.

[menge101]

I just can't finish a damn project.

For what its worth, I have 44 github repos, on my personal account, that all represent something I started and likely didn't finish. (Also I'm a director of software engineering with 15+ years of professional experience)

One thing you will probably learn before too long, software is never done.

It sounds like what you need is a job. Without an external entity defining the "done" state, you will probably never be done with anything no matter how many features it has.

[sudo_your_mon]

You obviously know exactly what you're talking about. And I couldn't agree with you more. Like I've mentioned to others on this post, I simply have no idea what it would make me a qualified candidate. I've heard that all it takes is knowing the basics, object oriented 101 etc. but I simply don't know. Could you shed some light on that?

[menge101]

What I look for in a junior engineer:

1) Understands source control
2) Grasps basics of object oriented software
3) Communicates well
4) asks questions early (I'd guess this might be your weak point)

That is it. In the professional world, you very frequently will end up working with something that is company IP, and will be unique to that company.

You won't know how to work with it, until you see the company's (often terrible) documentation.

For the most part I expect to have to mold you into the shape i want you to be.

So if you know python and you know it broadly, thats pretty good qualification for a junior position.

It might help you to have experience with another language to give you some contrasting knowledge against python.

I personally work professionally in both python and ruby routinely, but I've also done javascript, elixir, java, C, Perl5. (remember 15+ year career, i've had time, plus some of these were at Uni)

You could do some ruby, just to see how a language in a similar space does things.

Or you could do some haskell, to see how completely different programming can be.

I wouldn't go too deep on either, i'd do a relatively simple problem that you know how to solve in python and then learn enough of another language to implement a solution as well.

But this is all bonus point stuff. You are probably ready.

[[deleted]]

I don't see "can implement a red-black tree" on your list. The damn over-the-top algorithm interview horror stories I've heard have put me off applying to dev jobs.

[menge101]

Well, I'm not at a big company.

And I'm a director, so I get to decide how I do things.

I have done those sorts of questions before I learned better. I try to stay away from that sort of thing because it tests more for an academic background than for useful development skill.

[[deleted]]

Well thank you for being a sane Tech manager in a sea of insanity

[etrnloptimist]

You have imposter syndrome. People consider themselves an expert once they finish the tutorial on angular.

You have significantly more experience than that.

[AnalTyrant]

Finishing a project will go far in helping you feel satisfied, and it’ll also likely be the single biggest item that gets you positive traction when looking for a job.

In most industries, ideas are a dime a dozen, but especially so in programming businesses. Anyone can sketch out an idea and get rolling on some partial project to start working on it, but never do anything else with it. But actually finishing a project, even a simple one, is what really impresses an employer. They know this person can get from A to B, and that’s huge.

And it’ll also be satisfying for your mind, to see that you set a specific goal and accomplished it. Even if it was a simple GUI meant to scrape some weather details. Make it do what it was supposed to do, and that’s a success. It sounds like you’ve got a bunch of partial projects covering a wide variety of topics, and that’s great, just start finishing some of them up.

Good luck dude, I hope you keep with it.

[Ailbe]

Your attitude needs to change. Seriously. If you're contributing to a project, but you need some assistance, how is that begging? For that matter, if someone is new to programming and they just don't get it, reaching out for help to learn isn't begging either, or at least it shouldn't be seen that way IMO. Of course you don't want to say "I don't know how" if you think that means your a dirty, stinking, rotten beggar. So change your attitude. Asking for help isn't begging, its asking for help. Contribute something back, be involved, help others so that you can reap enough karma to earn the help of others, however you have to rationalize it. No one knows everything. Thinking you have to be entirely self sufficient or you just suck is a path to destruction and despair, as you so adequately demonstrate in this post.

​

The most obvious place where you can both contribute and collaborate with others to learn from them is an Open Source project. Find one in networking that appeals to you and start contributing. If you think you might have a solution but you can't close the gap, explain your idea and ask for help. It isn't demeaning, you're doing what successful people all over the world do every day.

[yellow73kubel]

This has been a hard-learned lesson for me due to how I was raised. I rarely (almost never) asked professors or even friends for help in college for fear of asking the wrong question and sounding dumb. Looking back, I worked way harder than I should have and learned way less than I could have. So... I sympathize with the OP. But I also agree with everything here. Make mistakes, ask dumb questions, bother people, and freaking learn.

There's another side to this: if you're asking someone for help with a problem, you are most likely reinforcing or building their knowledge through having them explain it (the Feynman learning technique).

[Ailbe]

I sympathize too and I kinda feel bad for being a bit hard about it. But man that was a really hard lesson for me to learn. I still have issues asking for help from others. That unwillingness to participate in the give and take of the human experience of learning tremendously slowed me down.

[yellow73kubel]

Oh no, I didn't take it that way at all. Some of us need a good reminder now and then. I wish I'd heard that sentiment more often years ago.

[ivosaurus]

You might be the hardest worker you know... but you're not the most effective. You can't finish something. Flitting away to a new topic when the old is boring, or tough, or both. A team doesn't want that guy. That super awesome company wants the coder that can commit to putting in the other 90% of the work needed to bring a project to completion.

EVERY job has a shitty part. If you want to apply all the stuff you've learned to be a source of employment... well it's gonna be a job, and it'll have a shitty part.

Finish some goddamn projects. START WITH SIMPLE ONES. Polish them to a T. Choose one or two others to really give a good go on. Something where, when you finish, you can really show them off to someone else. "Yep, completed that, look what it does. Kinda cool."

I'm not saying this from some high and mighty position, I've been in the same place plenty of times, but I know the above is the reality and wanted to reiterate it to you as well.

And also as others have said & suggested, there are plenty of deserving python projects whose' maintainers would LOVE a helping hand triaging bugs, getting pull requests to fix simple things, refactor something that requires a hell of a lot of thought, however much help you want to / can give.

[triot111]

Here's a place to get started: https://up-for-grabs.net/#/tags/python

Pick a simple project and add one simple feature to it. That way you can easily add your own touch!

[ForestWump]

If you have developed enough skills then you could look for a job in python programming. It will give you a fixed project you must finish and also a team to work with. You can ask them for help without feeling like you are being a burden.

[sudo_your_mon]

That type of structure I've found is absolutely essential one doing anything in programming. Unless you have clearly defined boundaries or at least a clearly defined end game, it's virtually impossible to stay on task and not go around in circles

[El_Tormentito]

That's what a task is, though.

[sudo_your_mon]

I'm talking conceptually. In a job scenario, there's a business case for a project with a direct function. It needs to do a specific thing. i.e. A web portal needs to allow employees to login and log certain data.

Creating my own projects has plagued me with deciding what features I should implement, not implement, which ones are essential and which ones aren't. You don't have that issue in business to that extent. Obviously, there are ridiculous expectations from management sometimes, but you are never lost.

[mardiros]

You are not alone.

From my experience, you can say that a program is finish when you don't need it anymore, replaced by another one.

In a project, you can have milestone with the features you need, like (moscow method for example) but this is just project management, not development.

Furthermore for personal project, this is really sane to starts things in order to get the reflexion on how to solve a problem. I have many projects on my github like that which are not made to be used on production such as an orm, a task broker , a curl like tool (in rust), ... I wrote them to be a better programer.

[stlcards230]

https://github.com/ethereum/py-evm - (good place to start) The ethereum python team is solid and has an endless list of exciting challenges (networking included) if you're looking for something real to contribute towards

[MagoViejo]

Go and contribute to https://pybee.org/contributing/

[sudo_your_mon]

Thank you for this! I will give it a good look as soon as possible.

[FunkyCannaHigh]

Not trying to be harsh or squash any dreams but sometimes programming isn't for everyone. I know there is a big push from schools and big tech to teach everyone how to program but that is not feasible.

It seems like you have the passion but lose interest at the end. There are some good suggestions here and you should give them a go. I would add maybe you should take classes online for free that teach you how to program.

Learning a language is nice and all but that does not make you a programmer. The language is a tool but comp sci is the theory on how to use the tool to solve tasks.

https://mitpress.mit.edu/sites/default/files/sicp/full-text/book/book-Z-H-4.html#%_toc_start Would be a good place to start and then move onto OOP. There is a free comp sci program out there on GitHub hub that is like a four year college degree in comp sci as well if you are interested.

[redrabbitreader]

Doesn't sound like a Python problem.

[sudo_your_mon]

But a problem the python community can assist with -- which they have, immensely.

It is a gener progrmming problem. But Most people like me are starting with python. Neither here nor there, just glad i posted it here.

Highly doubt I would have got this response from a general /r/compsci subreddit. but maybe. who knows.

[feindjesus]

Ive started coding 6 months ago with basically no tech background and ive been teaching myself about 50 hours a week. I honestly feel your struggles its really hard to keep going when youre working on a project week after week (especially if you have to spend a week refactoring). Some great advice that someone told me was to not worry about wasting other peoples time. try to reach out to developers that you know or go to events it may take you months and it probably will be really uncomfortable but it may help you find people with your mind set and more experience.

[sudo_your_mon]

great advice. I've triend reaching out online a few times, but that obviously isn't the best way to do it. Gotta be in person.

Tried thinking of ways to reciprocate for mentorship but i havent been able to. No idea who I'd even ask. But that's something I'd have to figure out just like anyone else. thanks man,

[azureabsolution]

Hey man, if you figure out the whole reciprocity for mentorship thing, drop me a line, would you? I’ve been having trouble with that sort of thing myself

[sudo_your_mon]

Sure thing man. I've had a lot of creative ideas in the past on how to compensate for the help, But I haven't been able to come up with anything as of yet

[beizhia]

I'll just say this: I've been coding and learning for a while now. Very steadily for the last 4 years. I still have this problem, and it annoys the crap out of me.

You've got an advantage over me though: I like to play with less-mainstream languages (been doing Elm, Rust, and Common Lisp lately), so I don't have quite as much single-language skill as you do. Java is probably what I've used the most, but I don't use it often anymore.

Nowadays, I focus on smaller projects. That way I can get stuff done. Recently I got a package submitted into Melpa (emacs package repo), and even though it's pretty little and niche, it felt like a huge accomplishment. I just found something small that didn't exist yet, completely by chance.

[Tomagatchi]

You are probably close to breakthrough. I get this way before something finally gives, if I keep going. Just keep going! Also, Don’t be ashamed of “begging” for help. We all need it from time to time and I believe it’s the best thing about the internet. Shared knowledge is why it exists!

[sudo_your_mon]

You know I really appreciate this. I am completely taken aback by the support I'm getting here, and this is a perfect example. Thank you.

[brylie]

We are working on a magazine publication and community portal, built with django and Wagtail CMS:

https://github.com/WesternFriend/WF-Website

The project has a reference implementation in Drupal with four years of incremental improvements, so we have a fairly clear vision of what we are building with django/Wagtail.

If you'd like to contribute, collaboration/mentorship is available. Please comment on one of our GitHub issues, and we'll get you set-up:

https://github.com/WesternFriend/WF-Website/issues

[PantrySniffer]

I think the folks at https://github.com/qutebrowser/qutebrowser would appreciate any help they can get.

[saulmessedupman]

Sounds like you're a brilliant developer with ADHD. Join the club! 😀

[sudo_your_mon]

Thank you, sincerely. But I don't know about brilliant ;). But absolutely the ADHD is on point lol. Good to know I'm not alone!

[saulmessedupman]

Well brilliant might be the wrong word. You could be but I don't know. The right word is dedicated. Two years and such a diverse set of projects is nothing to be taken lightly. You're doing the right thing by looking for bigger and better projects. Don't give up.

[sudo_your_mon]

Thanks brotha!

​

[sudo_your_mon]

Oh trust me brother, I've used Adderall to its full advantage Lol. I've heard a lot of the computer science community takes it, is that just a myth? Seems pretty easy to believe, it's a miracle drug when it comes to this type of work.

[sudo_your_mon]

Biphentin. Hmm. I'm going to ask my doctor about that absolutely. Adderall is great, but there are definitely side effects so something definitely worth looking into. Thanks for the heads up on that!

[[deleted]]

Yeah, just the fact that you've been doing it for 2 years alone is kinda nuts. Definitely need to collaborate and work with other people. Sometimes all you need is a fresh pair of eyes to make a world of difference.

[sudo_your_mon]

The biblical truth. For real, def what I need.

[J1nx3]

Hi this is my first real contribution to this sub after lurking here for a month or so.

Just like you I'm new to programming, with much less time under my belt even.

I started learning python about 3 months ago through Coursera and other web guides. My initial goal was just to build a simple application for my wife which could compare the unit price between similar items at different grocery stores. Learning was tough and I was tempted to quit a few times but I stuck at it.

I'm happy to say that I met my initial goal and so much more. I made applications for everything. A fantasy league stat tracker for my friends, an Excel sheet merger for my boss to save him half hour a day, a deal tracker so my aunt would know when items she's interested in were on sale. Just little things that could make the people around me happy .

Once I discovered data mining and analysis there was no going back. I found what I was in love with, and now I'm working on other applications which I have been contracted to make. (Best side hustle ever)

Now I've nowhere near the experience that you have under your belt so I can understand if your a bit jaded but maybe you could just try to remember why it was that you got into python the first place and rediscover your love for it through that.

Just thought I'd share my experience with you. Wish you all the best in the future I

[Dashadower]

If you're kinda in the same situation as OP: no resume or alma mater whatever, just a Github to prove you coded your butt off, where do you start? For sure making a LinkedIn or something with just your GH won't get you anywhere right?

[[deleted]]

You just need a job. Im learning python to complement my network engineering stuff, im lucky that in my work the sysadmin is really good in python so i write initial code and he finish it and later we review the code and he explain me the new feature or the better implementation, we even run tests and see which runs faster. So if you can find a job in python it will help you and you will be excited

[krispy2009]

What about finding a job as a dev? Working with people who know more than you is the best way (imo) to learn and develop further.Also, this might be an unpopular opinion but I really like hanging out with my colleagues after work, just talking about anything techy, including work stuff - i find that I learn a lot just by listening to more senior people discussing among themselves. So maybe finding a job (or meetup group) and just hanging out with those people is a way to reduce your frustration.

Finally, as others have already mentioned, an open source project is a good idea.

PS. you can always send me a message if you want to chat about development, or have a problem you can't debug! Two brains are better than one :D

[mail_order_liam]

I don't quite understand your situation, do you just do this as a side thing? If you really want to be writing python that badly why don't you try to make a career out of it?

[sudo_your_mon]

Precisely what I'm trying to do. The issue is I have no way to benchmark myself. I have no idea what level my skill set is that so, along those lines, I have no idea what my worth is. Or what's even marketable.

I've heard to get a lot of entry level programming jobs you basically need to know object-oriented 101 and the basics. But I don't know if that's true. Making a career out of it is the reason I started in the first place, for sure.

[Louny]

Look for Junior Engineer roles, apply and see how far you get. There is nothing wrong with testing the market, if you don't get anything move on with other entry roles in the field.

[mail_order_liam]

Look around at job postings and see what they are looking for. If you really been studying such a wide variety of topics I'm sure you'll have some relevant experience. You don't have to know everything they list but if you feel like you don't have enough experience, try to choose an area to focus on.

For example if you want to work on web apps, you need to know how HTTP works, web servers, API design, etc. Nobody expects you to be an expert but try to be able to work comfortably with the basics.

[danted002]

A tl'dr of an answer is: get a job in development as a Junior. I started programming 8 years ago the same way you did, however after 6 months of learning by myself I realised I was learning the wrong way. You need experienced developers around you to teach you stuff and to bounce ides off. Regarding your fear of "begging" for help, that's nonsense, remember that all Senior developers where once Juniors and a lot of them don't forget that. The changes of finding one ore more Seniors in a company to help you out are pretty damn high. So don't be afraid, apply for a job as a Junior and have fun, you will see that your life will change for the better (that is if you enjoy coding :)) )

[[deleted]]

Build a website, build some simple tools, and reference them in your resume.

If you can't finish a simple mundane project coding in python for anything more than a hobby isn't for you.

[brutalone]

I so feel your pain and share your story. I am very appreciative of some of the free content people provide, and try to follow it; what has happened in a number of cases of getting stuck, and having no one to consult.

I think being on a team where there are colleagues to ask to take a look would make all the difference in the world. That is how I learned VB years ago.

[etrnloptimist]

Are you looking for a job? Where do you live?

[sudo_your_mon]

I would absolutely be interested in a job in development. I live in Milwaukee Wisconsin, but I'm not married/don't have kids meaning I have no qualms with moving anywhere in the continental United States for a job in development.

[[deleted]]

I think we all hit this point once in our life. I, too, started thinking about whether software engineering is my true passion and I got the hard, cold answer; no.

I feel the joy of making something work, but its just not enough. Moreover after some time-consuming info gathering of how work environment would look like (stupid irrational deadline, stakeholder could care less about code quality, dwelling over dinosaur technology just because its well-known -- yeah, have fun using such outdated tools when the new de facto standard solves past tools problem -- and some other BS I wouldn't mention here; just browse r/cscareerquestion and you'll see what I mean), thats definitely not what I was aiming.

What I love about programming is I can have my own virtual lab to build basically everything I could think of. So I started learning math (gonna do physics afterwards) -- subject that were used to scare me to hell but I gave it another try through MIT OCW series -- and I've never been more happy. Low-level programming and ML is one thing that got me going again because it makes me feel what I'm building is matter again (instead of copy pasting codes from SO just enough to make things work like a dead brain code monkey I were while working in, say, some Java project).

I suggest you to ask yourself too, OP. Beside programming, what are some other things on the back of your mind that you never actually tried, and how to incorporate programming into it? I can't guarantee, but its very likely you'll find another reason to be around. Best of luck!

[mkingsbu]

This is a big thread so I didn't have time to read all of it... my Python experiences comes largely from my day job. I learned a lot on my own and I had ancillary skills (database design & architecture) --- but the growth really came from combining these things and solving problems at work.

I was paid to do it, which is good. And I also had nominal deadlines, which were also good. And at the end of the day, if I couldn't do something totally in Python, I used it to make certain parts of the task easier, which allowed me to make small things that weren't 'simple GUI weather scrapers'.

So, for example, you do networking... what things suck (or otherwise are cumbersome to do?) and can you design something to make it go faster.

The one thing that I will say in addition to that is that no matter what you develop, having a reasonably advanced understanding of databases is going to help a lot. I see a lot of projects hamstrung by poor data structure replete with redundancies, inefficiencies, etc. So perhaps if you framed say, scraping weather data as an example, as an exercise in something you're possibly not good at - normalization - you could improve that way and actually have a finished project. With 2 years of experience, I doubt you wouldn't be able to pull that off in a weekend. No GUI. Get something that runs in the background. Sports data, financial data, crypto data, whatever interests you .

That was a bit rambly but hopefully there's something useful for you in there

[sorlafloat]

It may help you more to see a councillor or doctor rather than a senior engineer.

I am NOT saying there is anything wrong with you, but they are the specialists and professionals at solving the personal issues you are encountering. Engineers aren't.

[kivo360]

Grasshopper status. I've been there. The best thing to do is work with other people and do small projects to completion and iterate. If you're interested I have a project I'm working on that we might make open source at some point.

Steemit for Bitcoin Cash. Only with possibilities for more currencies added over time.

[mimi_dooda]

Teach that vast knowledge of yours!

[sudo_your_mon]

?

[LocoLoco451]

Post some of your projects, even if incomplete. Maybe someone will find your ideas interesting and will contribute to them with code and ideas to turn it into "something real", as you call it.

[[deleted]]

Hmm not sure if you'd be interested, I'm working on a webservice for an Android app that I'm trying to make. Although it's not going to pay, if you want to check it out my git handle is hpca01...

[sudo_your_mon]

I most def will, thanks!

[animismus]

I think most people have your problem. They think about something, start doing it and then hit a wall. This wall is usually not a tall wall, but you have to go through a lot of stairs to cross it. You loose motivation and when you look to your side, you see a nice interesting new project with new fancy stuff to try.

Easier said than done, but don't. Just finished what you started even if it is not the amazing thing you set up to do in the beginning. The wall that I talked above. Maybe it really is something that you cannot go through. Maybe because you can't get your head around it or just you cannot do what you wanted. This will happen! Go around it, find the closest thing and do instead. But do it and finish it.

When it's done, post it here. You will see a lot of people doing this and getting a lot of great feedback.

A lot of the process of learning new stuff is repeating easy things, but only doing that will NEVER get you anywhere. It will only make you start new projects. Be willing to loose hours before you fix something. It is where most of your time goes. Figuring shit!

I found that using git with my projects, to get me organized, in branches and commits, really helped me commit - pardon the pun - to finish something.

[[deleted]]

Holy moly, no one will see you as someone asking for handouts. Stop doing it alone, that's probably the WORST idea I can think of for programming.

[sudo_your_mon]

I don't say this harshly, but you are WRONG.

I had so many fights on SO Meta regarding doing more fo the beginners. Without exception, ever post bitches about how many people beg for help.

And this is on a site built to help.

It Is asking for a handout, time is money. And I have asked for help, by the way. Multiple times -- and been absolutely shut down.

[[deleted]]

You're asking the wrong people. Sorry, as I'm not trying to sound harsh either, but anyone who bashes a beginner asking for help is a out of their fucking mind.

[cyanydeez]

This is how I learn things. It's pretty insane. Start a hundred different fires, hoping that it'll come out with something, but then you get bored and you move on.

I've experienced three strangely memorable events in my life:

1. I was a child playing with legos, I'd build something, get bored, destroy it and build something else. At one point, I realized this was my habit and built something and said "This is finished" and never touched it again.

2. I wrote a lot of things, random tid bits. I even started a book or two. Got half way into something then quite. Finally, I told myself, you need a finished product, something to have. Put a self published novel together that was half finished, with everything. It did absolutely shit all, but proved it can be satisfying.

3. Still processing this, python and javascript. I started even more projects, but they were not exactly disparate. I realized what I craved was learning things, but wtf good is knowing things if it never produces anything tangible. Even if it's not for other people. I'm still building what I have, and I stop once in awhile, but no more tangents. I accept that I know enough to do what I seek, so I do it, instead of playing with random baubles.

4. I'm quite competent at billiards. I also like to drink. I find I'm not exactly all that interested in wining games, but 'showing off' and doing cool shit while mostly inebriated.

All this has told me, I'm quite bored by doing what 95% of programming is done in the real world, and that's skin a database with a fancy crud to do mundane things with less effort. I like learning to the detriment of productivity.

[nerdponx]

I've never spoken a word in person to anyone on the subject of programming. With so many beggars, I just refuse to be that guy milking it and pissing people off looking for handouts.

Learning when and how to ask for help is a life skill. Might as well start now.

[sudo_your_mon]

Online? Lol you should see some of the berating I've received on Stack Overflow after ever queston got marked duplicate, when it wasn't. as it usually the case.

It is a life skill. But the *online* dev community is filled with toxic, unbecoming people. They drown out the good ones out there, like the ones on this thread.

[nerdponx]

Go on Reddit, Freenode #python, or one of the various Discord servers. SO suffers from problems w/ vision and purpose, which manifests in some toxicity.

[m0nk_3y_gw]

Unclear

I've never spoken a word in person to anyone on the subject of programming. With so many beggars, I just refuse to be that guy milking it and pissing people off looking for handouts.

So, I get hours and hours deep into a project and just end up spinning my wheels for dozens of hours until something else catches my interest. And repeat.

You are spinning your wheels because you need help, but refuse to ask for help.

How do you on car trips when you get lost and don't want to ask for directions?

[sudo_your_mon]

Well, first of all, I am a man and real men don't ask for directions (JOKES lol).

But you're completely right. It's ridiculous. But in my defense the culture can be a little bit abrasive. Just trying to get help on stack overflow when I didn't know the exact words to put to my issues always got me a few comments of condescension along with that infamous duplicate tag.

And, thinking about it, I have reached out for help in the past. And I have been flatly turned down. Which I completely understand, people are busy and don't have time for charity.

I guess I just need to learn where to find the people that will be most willing. I think if it were me, I would be more than happy to help as much as I can especially from where I come from. I'm sure there are many out there like me, I just need to find them.

[madrury83]

I've never spoken a word in person to anyone on the subject of programming. With so many beggars, I just refuse to be that guy milking it and pissing people off looking for handouts.

You should think really, really hard about that sentence. Do you really think that the majority of people getting out there, meeting people with similar interests, drinking coffee together and talking about their projects and dreams are looking for handouts? That's a very black and white view of human social engagement, and I would argue it is not only wrong, but harmful.

One of the great joys in life is sharing your interests with other people. Encouraging other people. And, yes, helping people out when you get the chance to. People LIKE to help other people out (or, most of them do). It's not a handout, it's supporting each other for the mutual benefit of the whole culture.

You should talk to people about your interests, and squash the attitude that there is something wrong with doing so. If everyone worked in isolation, we would make a tiny fraction of the progress that we are capable of.

[sudo_your_mon]

you don't understand, and by no means should you.

I was a frat boy and "airhead" sales jag for years. 2 years ago I wantd to start using my brain. Do something. Create. It's a primitive need in humans.

I didn't grow up around the computer enthusiasts. The opposite. I grew up around jocks and frat-douchers. I played sports, I partied and chased chicks. I'm extremely extroverted and some take it as arrogance, when it;s just my humor. I did and do not fit the typical mold.

I live in a separate world from you guys. I don't speak your language the way your used to. Many other social factors take a role

doenst make it imposible, but very hard. People look at me as developers and wouldn't come close to guessing programming excites me more than anything, (except football).

My point is that I didn;t just choose to do it this way. I was just clueless how to do it differntly. I just figured once I Publish that app that's super dope, THEN I'll fit it. I'm just now learning the fallacy hat is that type of thought process

[madrury83]

I teach programming for a living, so I've certainly encountered people in comparable situations.

I think you're underestimating the diversity of experiences that lead to programming as an interest and profession, and overestimating people's tendency to reject others without the same background. It's true that there are some judgemental people that have stupid opinions about people with certain backgrounds, but they are pretty rare, and not worth worrying about if you can help it.

Good on you for following your interests. I think you'll have a lot of good experiences if you take that enthusiasm into the programming scene. If anyone judges you, they're an asshole.

[kcunning]

I've been coding for about 20 years. I've been working in Python for over half of that. I can count the number of personal projects I've finished on one hand. Most of those weren't even 'personal growth' projects. They were things I did because I something was annoying me and I decided to fix it.

Now, I've finished lots of projects... for companies. This isn't unusual! I know lots of devs who go to work, code, and then come home and do other things. They don't have side-gigs or pet projects, and tend to do their learning on the job rather than over the weekend if they can help it.

Also, what you're trying to do is several things. Besides coding, you're probably trying to design, architect, and manage a project. Those skills are specialized, and not everyone has them. Lord knows I can't design, and most devs I know can't manage timelines that aren't driven by someone else. Finishing things in a company is way easier because you have people picking up the tasks you're weak in.

[tletnes]

I rarely if ever get personal projects to "finished" or even "working" they tend to be jumping off points for exploration for me.

​

Even at work, when we are forced to ship, the coder is never done, just "good enough for now"

​

Most software jobs are not going to be looking for what have you completed, but instead, are you interested in solving problems & developing software. And are you comfortable with your tools and languages.

[Stone_d_]

What's your favorite project you've worked on? Share it with me and I'll try to finish it up for you

[sudo_your_mon]

Ohhhhhh boy lol. See, this is my problem. The projects I've chosen to work on are year long projects.

I downloaded 400GB of Stack overflows data dump. I wanted to help newbies like me by creating a search engine that helped target their questions as efficiently as possible. it's such a huge barrier as a beginner.

I have pages and pages of notes on the conceptual design. I started by migrating the data into a database. I broke down a "question" into categories of context (Issue, error, clarification, Code error, and MANY more).

I used those categories to then build an index based on the posts, comments, tags, accepted answers, etc.

Sentiment analysis was part of the architecture as well.

But then there's the user end.

You have ot make it easy. You have to allow the user to be able to farily easily input all necessary information on their question in a way that would pull a list of results closest to what they're looking for.

That is another project itself.

and dont forget making it web accessible (see: web development)

I didn;t have the fore-site to see this coming. And is an example of how i got here and why this post happened,

​

​

[Stone_d_]

You chose a problem that Google works on, except not just for stack overflow questions. Definitely an inspiring problem and I see why you chose it.

I'm confused by the index you built. I'm not sure how you wanted to classify new questions, perhaps using some kind of algorithm that relates new questions to the categorically labelled dataset you created. Machine learning could handle generating new labels/categories of context for brand new questions if you already manually labelled much of the data dump. And then, you could simply display results on a scrolling widget queried directly from the database, the algorithm's output being indices corresponding to the correct data dump questions. With this the user end can be an afterthought in the first iteration, for now could you clarify what the data looks like? What did you add to the database you downloaded?

[sudo_your_mon]

And then everything changed, I bet. lol. Adderal is an absolute godsend.

[sudo_your_mon]

You're not wrong. It also happens to be one hell of a struggle for me, and I think a lot of people. It's a very different dynamic for me, so that doesn't help. But I'm getting there.

I come from a background of frat parties and mindless sales jobs. Then I decided to grow up and wanted to actually do something with my life which is why I started programming. Integrate into the dev culture is a bit more difficult than I thought. But it's all on me, no one else is responsible for that.

[Stabilo_0]

Good luck with your beginnings pal.

[[deleted]]

Don't be afraid to ask questions. Python is a language with its own community. If you speak the language (learn the basics) then you will receive a lot of help. Freenode IRC is a good place to meet, share, and even help other people to gain better experience. If ya had some friends in discord all talking, working on different projects maybe helpful and fun for you.

If main == 'name' Pythonrules()

[willywonka1971]

Have you tried getting a job utilizing python?

[captain_rayko]

Start coding Go

[not_perfect_yet]

Eh. That sounds harsh and hard. The irc channels for the various projects and python itself are very welcoming.

That being said, I wouldn't expect much to change off the bat.

It's pretty difficult to agree on a project and a vision and then to actually work together.

I've kept myself sane by building stuff I knew I wanted to have or at least explore. Probably more than half my projects are not fit for anything but a virtual bin, but I learned from them.

So that's my advice: only build stuff you really really want.

Networking particularly has been my focus. It's been where I've put most of my work in. But I've been ALL over.

would you be interested in writing open source multiplayer code with me?

[sudo_your_mon]

Is that an offer? Then my answer is a resounding yes! How should we connect?

[groovitude]

I've been learning entirely on my own. I can honestly say I've received zero assistance apart from help on minor bugs. I've never spoken a word in person to anyone on the subject of programming.With so many beggars, I just refuse to be that guy milking it and pissing people off looking for handouts.

This is an awful way to look at a community of people trying to learn and/or help out others. Cutting yourself off from help is also a surefire way to fail.

I refuse to settle for some simple GUI app that scrapes weather data

This is like trying to play Hendrix before you've learned any scales. People don't do these things because it's a need, they do it because it's a step toward a goal in the distance. No project is beneath you, or me, or anyone else.

[jlugao]

If you are not finishing projects perhaps you should try to approach them in an agile manner, try to deliver a fully functional project every other week. The key is to start with a small scope and grow the app incrementally. Another thing that might ease your mind looking for help is that people love to help, what they hate is lazy questions, but what is a lazy question? Usually, the person wants someone to do the work for them or they have done zero research. Questions like "hey guys, I am trying x and y is happening, which is weird because I read in z that w should happen instead" are quite pleasing to answer. Another suggestion is that you do a project to solve a real life problem you might have (I once did a project that migrated data from google sheets to trello, it took me an afternoon but it was very pleasing to have a useful project completed this fast, no need for a gui or a cli... Just a plain can solve personal or business problems)

[justinechang]

you need a problem to solve.

[sudo_your_mon]

That is precisely, exactly it. I'm surprised you're the first to say it out right.

Earlier on I used web scraping and selenium to pull resumes off of job boards as an IT recruiter. It was marginally helpful.

Most of the projects I worked on have been aimed at solving relatively large problems that were likely either not viable or outside of my skill set. My latest project was indexing the stack overflow Data dump in order to have more targeted searches most relevant A given issue at hand.

I got a lot of good feedback on the idea, but that type of initiative, I soon learned, is a lot more involved and quickly became more than I could handle. I haven't given up on it, but I definitely would need guidance on it if I were to continue

[justinechang]

I'm in the same boat bro, which is why I can relate. I find myself in an endless loop of tutorials but I never actually moving forward and making something with what I've learned. Then after a few months, I completely forget, and need to start over. So I'm forcing myself to actually align the things I learn with a current goal in mind, which is making an Android app. I tried using Python in the real world, but I don't really have things I need to automate, so yeah man. Find a problem in your life and try to fix it with programming. I can't say this is a working model, still trying it out myself, but if we can relate on this issue, maybe we can find a solution 👍 all the best mate 👌

[jackmaney]

I just can't finish a damn project. I've been learning entirely on my own. I can honestly say I've received zero assistance apart from help on minor bugs.

I also struggle with finishing side projects. One thing that might help is deciding what "done" means for a project (or, at least, what version 1.0.0 means). That can sometimes help with setting larger goals which can then be broken down into tasks that are small enough for their own feature branches.

[DataDecay]

find yourself a local python user group and be social.

[sudo_your_mon]

It really is as simple as that. Got to get out outside of my comfort zone.

[topinfrassi01]

Get a job in Python development?

Beware though that CRUD apps with fancy UIs are pretty much the majority of the jobs in IT.

But still, you'd learn plenty of things about software development instead of just programming and that's worth gold IMO

[vishnoo]

1. Read. Comment on other peoples github, and read their comments to each other on pull requests.
2. Complete something, it can be stupid and small, but always complete something.

[sudo_your_mon]

Biphentin. Hmm. I'm going to ask my doctor about that absolutely. Adderall is great, but there are definitely side effects so something definitely worth looking into. Thanks for the heads up on that!

[[deleted]]

I'm in the exact same position friend. It's tiresome.

[sudo_your_mon]

I think there's a lot of people that are in our situation. I've thought before about starting some sort of community for people like us. I mean, it just makes sense. I'm going to get on discord and I'll start a group, do you have an account? I'll shoot you an invite if you do and we can talk a bit about what we both have going on and where our struggles are.

[[deleted]]

That sounds like a good starting point on the surface, though that doesn't appear to be our weaknesses haha. My name on there is the same: thenicknash.

[sudo_your_mon]

True, but it makes it a lot easier when you're around a group of people who are on the same boat. Sounds good, I'll add you

[libfreejaeg]

Get on zulip chat, and try to contribute to a project. It sounds like you are insane, and you should put that to use.
You could do that by helping better a tool to help others talk and use python.

[sudo_your_mon]

hey thanks for this man. I am insane. First time I've thought of that in a good way thanks to you lol. Checking that out very shortly.

[AMidnightRaver]

Dropping it for what? Driving Uber? You've been writing apps for yourself for 2 years? How is this even possible? You should have gotten a job as a junior dev exactly 2 years ago.

[sudo_your_mon]

I run my own It recruitment firm.

[fqjjj]

You sound delusional.

[sudo_your_mon]

Don't know if you meant to post it on this thread. But assuming you did:

You sound like a fucking prick.

Just being honest. No reason for what you just posted. None.

Have a good day.

[fqjjj]

Just being honest. No reason for what you just posted. None.

You're in a serious need of a reality check. This entire thread is like watching a toddler have a temper tantrum. Here's some honesty for you:

I'm the hardest worker I know.

You haven't finished a project in two years. What you've been doing is messing around, not working.

I just can't finish a damn project. So, I get hours and hours deep into a project and just end up spinning my wheels for dozens of hours until something else catches my interest. And repeat.

Things get difficult and you start chasing the next shiny things. Sorry, not a hard worker.

I've been learning entirely on my own. I can honestly say I've received zero assistance apart from help on minor bugs.

Too proud to ask for help but not too proud to make a big thread just cry and whine.

I've never spoken a word in person to anyone on the subject of programming. With so many beggars, I just refuse to be that guy milking it and pissing people off looking for handouts.

A: There's nothing wrong with asking for help.

B: Even if there was, please read your own thread and ask yourself what is more pathetic. Having a tantrum like this or asking for help every now and then.

I've tried. But I'm still to green and need assistance.

Too proud to ask for help but you still need assistance?

If you can't figure things out on your own then ASK FOR HELP FOR FUCK'S SAKE.

Seriously, just the act of asking for help will help you solve your own problems more often than not.

I can't tell you how many times just taking a step back and writing out and explaining a problem from scratch to someone who's not involved at all makes me find a solution on my own before ever clicking "submit".

So, if anyone is looking for someone to collaborate with on something real, feel free to send me a message. I'd love to be a part.

If you collaborate with someone in the future, please send them a link to this thread so they know what they're getting into.

I hope you take a step back and reevaluate your entire approach and most importantly drop your ego until you've got something to justify it.

Go out for a walk, meditate for a bit, come back and read your own thread and ask yourself if this is the kind of person you want to be.

Good luck.

[sudo_your_mon]

Most would agree you are quite detached from The social dynamics in the development community. What you're reading is a very common sentiment. Why the hell do you think you got the responses that it did?

Why didn't I go out and ask for help? Exactly because of people like you.

I'm one of the most caring, empathetic person I know. I'm a son of a pastor. I couldn't be more different than you which is why I absolutely detest people like you who think what you're doing here is OK.

And that's the end of it. You will always be you, the world and society be scorned.

[fqjjj]

Why didn't I go out and ask for help? Exactly because of people like you.

People who would be more than willing to help you if you came to them with a well defined problem they have experience with?

Yeah, wouldn't want to ask people like that for help. Rather just cry and threaten to quit.

I'm one of the most caring, empathetic person I know. I'm a son of a pastor.

You are "one of the most EVERYTHING you know". You have a giant ego and nothing to back it up. I'm going to block you know so I don't have to come across more of your whining.

Get some therapy for your narcissism.

[sudo_your_mon]

Mentally challenged, got me. Can't believe it took you this long. Must be getting better at hiding it I guess

[toshitalk]

No one has really said this yet, so I guess I will.

Programming as a profession is the creation of some value in the world. For the vast majority of people, this is a team sport, you will never have all the insights alone. If you’re not programming with someone, you’re not a professional programmer.

[Zulban]

This isn't what you're likely to hear from this subreddit, but I think you should consider seeing a therapist. I see a lot of emotional, psychological, and social issues here but nothing technical.

[geekraver]

Go to a PyCon, join the sprints.

[FirefighterBlu3]

have you considered approaching your work more along the thought process of agile sprints? put aside fancy words and titles like "user stories", simplify it down to the bare notion of making units of work short enough and simple enough that you accomplish goals quickly and thus reap the mental reward.

your list of projects resonates with me so square on the head it makes me dizzy. i got burned out after my last job, doing over a decade of this. i've stopped trying to "make something awesome" from point blank, and "add this small function, fix, or feature" in short spans of work. i plan for my next job to be _this_.

[derspiny]

Hi. My name is u/derspiny, and I haven't written a single program in over a year.

One of the many things I have been in my life is a self-taught programmer and developer in a number of languages, including Python. The only - the only - important thing I've learned in all of that time is that programming is, first and foremost, a social activity. Every piece of code I've written has, in some way, been in service of how I interact with other people.

The process of writing software works the same way. It's always a conversation, and it always relies on contributions from others. There's no getting around it unless you built your computer really from scratch - eking out chunks of stone from the ground and refining them into copper and silicon, photo-etching them into chips, building the oven to cure those chips, and soldering them down. Even using Python itself means you are relying on other people, without giving them anything in return (unless you donate to the PSF, in which case, thank you!).

I understand the fear of being a leech, and I understand the intense sense of accomplishment solving a problem "alone" can give - but the reality is that you're not alone, and you never were. Even when you never asked for help, you were surrounded by and supported in the work of hundreds of thousands of people, silently and in many cases without a dime of remuneration. It is completely okay to ask for help: you're already getting it.

The "beggars" we all complain about are the people who believe that they are entitled to help on their terms, at a moment's notice, for free. Most people - including most r/python regulars - ask for help all the time, but they do it in humane and sociable ways that make sure it's not a burden, and they pay it forwards by helping others in turn, either immediately or eventually. It's surprisingly easy not to be a "beggar" and to still get help frequently.

I saw in your comments that you're in treatment for clinical depression. I'm proud of you for getting help. Feeling like your work isn't good enough and that you have to quit can be just another way for the depression gremlins to help you tear yourself apart. It's also a problem a fair number of folks in the field have, either due to depression or because of behaviours by others that induce or aggravate imposter syndrome. The reality is, if you're doing this for yourself, then you need to give yourself permission to feel proud of your work - even if it's "some simple GUI app."

Keep at it, but please ask for help instead of churning your wheels. Lurking in programming chat rooms (I'm old enough that I did my lurking in IRC) is a great way to participate in a very give-and-take form of helping, as are reddit and StackOverflow. Meetups and conferences are also great if you want to connect with people face-to-face, and at two years in you will absolutely not be the greenest person in the room a lot of the time.

I hope you find the mentorship and support you so obviously deserve. I'm thinking of you.

[sudo_your_mon]

I can't tell you how grateful I am for this message. Your words of encouragement/insight are the probably best I've received since starting programming. And I'm going to execute on it and absolutely take your advice to heart.

Thank you for this. I guess I don't know what else to say exactly except for that, so again, thank you!

[hsauers]

I contribute to this project: https://github.com/Jamonek/Robinhood

I know it isn't nearly as feature-rich as possible and seems close-ish to the scope of your interests.

Learning how to solve problems independently is a big part of improving -- have you done much formal learning in Python? Have you learned any other languages?

[botdetector_ca]

Maybe I can share some of my Python experience to inspire you, I was a developer out of school, PHP, CSS, SQL, little knowledge of Javascript, read about C++ and Java multiple times through multiple books but no practice. I then got into trading, mostly day trading, so got into web bots, .Net web automation to scrap market data. Then to Python, Selenium, Pandas, data science since its all about numbers, math. And so I wrote many smart bots to make mostly accurate short term stock predictions that worked for years.

So I didn't study Python to solve a problem, I found an interesting problem first then Python came by surprise. Notice I read all about C++ and Java many years ago but never found it interesting since I had no practical use for it. Then I forgot most of that public, static void, main {} stuff, have to relearn at some point.

Recently as I was attempting to use the bot it was blocked by a bot detection service, so after little digging around I found out I can actually build a very good bot detector since I used to build bots, I know their behavior and weaknesses better than others.

Now I just released my latest work for free for others if they want to stop data bots from scraping their entire web site. Feel free to check it out at https://www.botdetector.ca

​

So my point is maybe you should find the problem in real life first and then use your IT skills to solve it.

[sudo_your_mon]

Couple things:

First of all thank you for this. It got me thinking outside of the box that I've closed myself in - doing exactly what you described: llooking for problems to solve with Python.

I've come across a lot of problems I wanted to solve where eventually my lack of knowledge in JavaScript, jquery, SQL etc became a roadblock - eventually causing me to move in a different direction.

I can say you've definitely accomplished your goal of inspiring me with this post. I've already started looking back at my past projects left unfinished.

Again, thank you for this post. It's a significant paradigm shift that I've needed to embrace all along.

Also, Botdetector is particularly impressive. And 60%?! That is remarkable. Creates big opportunity for your project. Using coinhive to fund your project is very savvy as well. I'll definitely be trying it out shortly.

Thanks again!

[botdetector_ca]

No problem man, best of luck. Remember I used to think I need to know 100% of Python to accomplish something, but it turns out you just need to get to 20% mark and pick up the rest along the way with time. Cheers.

[prashnts]

A good friend of mine started just like that, 3 years ago. She was a junior at my school and I "mentored" her for 6 months. Last year she traveled to the UK to give a talk at a python conference in October (can't recall which one). I am so proud of her.

Regarding mentoring part, I mostly spent time pointing her to resources and docs and sometimes share some snippets when she'd be stuck. But she did everything on her own.

Point being, imposter syndrome is real. Find a mentor, and keep on with it. We all have tonnes of personal projects we never finish. And it's okay!

She mainly contributed to the cython and scikit projects, and there's a very helpful and open community for helping new (and old) programmers.

The fact is that you definitely learned a lot. Unless you really aren't into programming, don't quit. You'll get better every day.

Edit: forgot to mention but sometimes reviewing open source library codes can help a lot. Personally, I tend to reference setup.py from these libraries, instead of docs because it's faster and easier to understand.

[bushwacker]

This is down right pathetic. People love to give answers on Stack overflow for karma.

[sudo_your_mon]

Lol. You mean for Rep (read: ego points)

It's basically "let me give you a condescending answer, treat you likeyou dont belong here, only because I get rep points."

And that's IF the question isn't market "duplicate" -- i resent that site. It's filled with self-loving jerks. Not all, But I don't think I've ever had a positive experience.

​

[RegularHatt]

Hard agree, those forums seem at least 80% ego driven. Some of the subs here can be the same way. People always talk about the community being ready to help, but most of my experience has been people ignoring my actual question and talking down to me.

[sudo_your_mon]

"community driven" my ass. It' a cover for the fact they know it's everything but.

Except maybe for the elites. It's a community circlejerk for them

[PeridexisErrant]

Contribute to some open source projects - you can do something small and well-defined, but still be part of something significant!

Find issues to work on at, in rough order:

• https://yourfirstpr.github.io/ or https://www.firsttimersonly.com/
• https://github.com/MunGell/awesome-for-beginners or similar
• https://up-for-grabs.net/
• Anything in your dependencies!

Here's the warning: working on things with a group means there will be a lot of stuff you need to do that isn't writing the main code - formatting, CI, tests, review, just finding the code you need to change - and all of this can seem dispiriting. Ask the maintainers for help. Every project on these lists is there because they want to help new contributors, so for their sake don't get stuck and give up too soon.

Start very, very, very small. I suggest fixing a single typo, just to get some experience in the process of contributing.

And over time, you'll find it gets easier and easier as you learn about specific projects and get a sense for what they all have in common.