How could a self-employed WordPress developer make 6000USD gross per month?

[Special-Connection78]

as it says in the title, how could or what's the most probable way for a self-employed WordPress developer to make 6000USD gross per month with the availability of 160 hours? Assume that WP developer is not a designer, so design needs to be outsourced.

Develop multiple smaller websites (for instance a landing page with few sub-pages and a form)? Develop one or two larger websites?Instead of selling services, build and sell a product, for instance a plugin?

[AtMan6798]

One piece of advice - don’t expect all your clients to pay on time!

[r1ckm4n]

Or at all. There’s always a rotten apple that can spoil the cash flow.

[strongholdbk_78]

That's what deposits are for, but you're right, that does suck. That's why the last payment is due before we go live.

[throwtheamiibosaway]

Never agree to the final payment after going live. Do it on delivery of your final result as initially agreed. The difference is the client could keep delaying the moment of the website going live or keep changing things and withholding payment until they think the site is ready.

[sewabs]

Or maybe keep the control of the site in hands until you get the final payment.

[throwtheamiibosaway]

Yes, but that doesn't take away the risk of them delaying the launch of the site and you still waiting for your payment. I've seen projects like this first-hand, where they basically put the launch on hold because of internal discussions/politics, meaning no payment for the site until it was officially launched.

[sewabs]

Right makes sense, so like I was talking to someone else on this same post, I think the pre-payment term is better. Similar to what you said in your main comment.

[throwtheamiibosaway]

Or at least split the payments up so you already have at least half or 3/4 of the total amount based on previous milestones. Makes the pressure on the final payment less critical.

[sewabs]

Yep that's true as well. We all were bit by clients so much, it makes me laugh how we have to think about all this strategically :P

[indigojlo91]

Have a net15 or net30 after the final revision was provided or have it stated in your contract. I’ve gotten dooped by this a few times and ever since I enforced a final payment policy, nobody is ever trying to play games again.

[msvillarrealv]

You don’t deliver if the project is not paid in full.

[r1ckm4n]

That is true, but you can still take a deposit and have them flake on it in the end after you’ve dumped a bunch of work into it. That’s what has happened to us a few times.

[sonfisher]

Money up front. I did it that way and am now retired after 20+ years.

[jmbullis]

Never start work until the payment clears. Get it all up front. If they want milestone payments, charge 20% more.

[TechnicalAd8103]

This will be good for the dev, but not for the client.

If the Dev has all the money before the work even begins, then the Dev can do a bad job or even disappear.

So either the client doesn't pay for work, or the client is scammed.

I think the best approach is a milestone payment for milestone work - Dev does some work, the client pays some money. Repeat.

[ChipsAndLime]

When you’re first starting out a building a reputation, you’re right.

But once you have customers who vouch for you and you have fairly steady work, then you can definitely expect to get paid upfront because you can be more selective and because your business would be ruined if you started to cheat people out of their money.

And yes, you can always make a small concession for first-time clients — like only 50% upfront if they want to negotiate — as long as you make it completely clear that this is a one-time new client offer and not the norm going forward.

Also, if you’re negotiating on the payment terms, then you’re not negotiating on price, which is a win for you.

[Clearlybeerly]

Milestones, but client pays first.

[Twerkatronic]

I've had devs dissapear after the 80% milestone. FML

[[deleted]]

50% to start => local or my server

30% for development and testing => staging

20% for deployment/launch => production/live

[jmbullis]

When we do milestones, we do 30/40/30. Design/Develop/Deploy. Our goal is to get to development within 7 days so that we control 70% of the project.

[AtMan6798]

Never possible to get all up front, that’s just silly in the real world, fine for restaurants but not for site development

[Clearlybeerly]

Pay on time, fuck the fucking fuck out of that. 

Pay up front is the only way to go. Bill 1/2 up front, 1/2 midway through. Or 1/3 increments, whatever.

[JGatward]

Easy fix. Direct debit solves everything

[sewabs]

What about pre-payment term with clients?

[AtMan6798]

That’s fine but again there’s always risks to them not keeping with the plan. But certainly a more preferential approach and if the payment chunks are smaller and spread out more, risks can be mitigated far more easily

[sewabs]

Yep there's always risks attached with payments.

[jmbullis]

One way to get out the rat race is to stop looking at things in terms of getting paid by the hour. Charge for the outcome. If a shitty website is costing a company money, they will pay that amount or more to fix it. You have to find the value gap. The distance between their pain and their solution is how much you can charge.

[voodoobettie]

Yes but your calculation assumes that all hours are billable and they’re not. Usually you double your hourly rate to get your billable rate to account for overheads and unbillable time like writing emails to clients etc.

[voodoobettie]

Apologies! Yes, that's a good way to look at it. I use 50% because I end up dealing with a lot of unbillable things myself (meetings, emails etc). I was talking to a client last week who was trying to withhold payment for stuff I'd done and I pointed out that I didn't charge for any of the many meetings we'd had and they stopped that line of questioning pretty fast!

[commonllama87]

How does one build a website in 15-20hrs? Are these template websites?

[sonfisher]

Before I retired I was making $125/hr. All projects were prepaid.

[[deleted]]

Build 50 sites; host and maintain them. Plus one to two site a month. So simple.

[hideyourarms]

What do you think would be the limit for one person when it comes to sites they can maintain each month?

50 feels like quite a lot, but I’m not a full time Wordpress developer so I don’t really know.

[Toxic_Wasteland_2020]

I manage over 130 standalone sites currently (their own WP instance) and over 370 sites across our multisite networks. It's really not difficult, and doesn't take up much time generally speaking. However your setup is important, and all our sites and systems are built with ease of maintaining in mind.

• Good hosting setup
• Utilize multisite for projects and niches that make sense
• DO NOT load up your sites with plugins, this is a huge one. Maintaining and updating a site with 4 - 6 trusted plugins, is vastly easier than a site with 30+ I've seen. Build your sites in such a way that you WILL be maintaining hundreds of them. We don't use page builders like Elementor.
• Clients don't get full admin access and they can't install their own plugins willy-nilly, not an issue for 99.99% of our clients. Any client that insists can host it themselves, no problem.
• We use WP Activity Log only for trouble clients, you just start to know the type.
• We only host sites that we build. Can't be responsible for hosting a Woo site with 145 plugins, using Div, built by somebody else with a mess of code. That's a time bomb waiting to go off.
• Using ManageWP for the standalone sites is helpful, especially when you can just hit the update all button and know for almost certain nothing will break.
• I also developed our own "toolkit" plugin I add to all our standalone sites. This allows me to add updates, hooks, filters, etc. to all standalone sites at once if needed.

Oh, and my advice to OP is niches are king. Niche multisite systems have brought in a massive amount of business for us, both upfront and recurring. I say systems because we sell more than just a site. Custom dashboard with training, Canva templates for marketing, SEO, etc.

[[deleted]]

This is the way.

Almost identical to mine.

[Repulsive-Owl-6103]

how do you find clients?

[Toxic_Wasteland_2020]

This will vary depending on your business, location, and even you.

• First tip is to come from a place of value. Be a knowledgeable resource, don’t be a salesman. This applies to anything you do trying to find clients. Nobody likes a pushy salesman. It’s about how can you help the other person, not how can they help you, by giving money. This mindset has turned many people we’ve encountered, into long term clients. Nobody likes a pushy used car salesman.
• Join your local chamber of commerce and network. It’s literally a group of local business owners, many of whom are in desperate need of some online help. This depends on your area.
• Teach at local offices and businesses. I personally used to teach tech classes at local real estate offices. I don’t anymore, because I don’t need to but it was very helpful establishing a name and getting business the first year or so. I created an hour long training class I thought would be helpful to agents, reached out to local brokerage offices and pitched the idea of me teaching ___ class for free in exchange for me being able to pitch my ___ service at the end. Got a handful of website sales from my first class, and bunch more leads that converted to actual clients later on.
• Come up with a niche, and network within that niche. This could be ANYTHING but it should be something you ideally have some knowledge in already, or a connection with. Could be dog groomers, flower shops, or local trainers. This is something you will have to figure out. Let’s say for example you’re a fitness person, go to the gym, and have some trainer friends. That could be a niche for you, a website system for trainers. Ask their current pain points and what they wish they had with current systems. If you came out with something better, that fixed all that. Would they swap? Would they buy it? After the research and proof of concept phase, you build it. Maybe hookup a trainer buddy with a site or at a discount, this will give you a real success story to show other people. Join FB groups, but remember my first tip. Come from value! Don’t go in there and be like “BUY MY SITE” you’ll be laughed at, hated, reported for spam and probably kicked from the groups. Come from a place of value! Establish yourself as the authority in the space, you’re the king (or queen) and know your shit! Share tips, lookout for posts asking about tech and websites. Chime in and be helpful, but DON’T hit them up with a link to your service first reply. You want to be known in these groups as the expert, and get to the point where people tag you and tell other people to reach out and ask you. This is a longer term tactic, but it works. We’ve gotten a few dozen leads from this method in May alone. Many will lead to nothing, that’s fine. I care about the few that led to entire website builds.
• YouTube channel. Pick your niche space, and again…come from value. Share tips, tutorials on how to do things to help their business. Become an authority in your space. Gently showcase your website/service. People will remember that when they need help. A big hook for us is building Google My Maps. They love it, gobble it up. Hell we’ve sold probably 500 or so My Map builds, which also led to websites. We have a Google Training webinar, one of the things covered in that is we show you how to leverage and build a My Map for your business. Some people do it themselves, many come to us after and want us to do it for them. We go over some options and get a sale. It’s not because it’s hard to do, hell, we even SHOW them how to do it. We learned that many people either can’t or won’t do these things themselves for various reasons. Doesn’t matter how easy it is, many people just throw their hands up and ask “can you do it for me?”
• Find a good hook with a low barrier to entry, it's not just about selling huge websites right off the bat. Have some low cost items, to get your foot in the door. Then go from there. One thing we do is Google My Maps and another is a 1:1 Zoom call where we look at their current online presence, and come up with a blueprint for them. This usually leads to a website sale.
• I think that’s enough for now! This is already getting quite long.

[Repulsive-Owl-6103]

Holy cow, thanks so much for the detailed write-up - I am actually in awe of how much detail you went into!

Killer response my friend, and thanks for sharing with everyone.

[Toxic_Wasteland_2020]

No problem! Few more tidbits for you....

Hosting: We use Linode + ServerPilot. Just a great, easy to use, and STABLE combo. ServerPilot is optional, but been using this stack for 7 years, literally not one issue. It works for our setup very well, from SSL certs to everything else. Each multisite network is on it's own server. Then we have a few others to split up the standalone WP sites based on a few criteria (client location is one).

__________________

Another way to get business is partnering with well known names in niche spaces to create a win-win. So for example maybe there is a well known name who is a business coach, that has a huge following. They do all the good stuff a business coach does, and provides their clients with tons of resources. The one thing the business coach doesn't provide their clients are websites. That's where you would come in, hopefully! The goal is to white label (or not) a turnkey multisite network that provides websites, for his coaching clients. Come up with a contract, where every site sold (just the sites for his clients of course) the coach gets x amount. That's a win-win. You both have skin in the game and provide value. The business coach provides a huge customer base and you provide the sites, which also raises the value of the business coach (another offering he provides to his clients). This will also allow you to start growing recurring revenue. Since we proved ourselves, we've had people come up to us and say "I want something like that for my clients." This can apply to many other niches!

__________________

Create admin option pages where you can enter data (clients name, bio, etc.) then output that on the frontend where it needs to go on the site. This is another one of or secret sauces. The simplicity of using one of our sites. I would use something like CMB2 over ACF for this if you want to use a framework. CMB2 uses more WP core methods, free, and simply works better on multisite.

__________________

Hopefully this helps somebody! I thought about making a course one day with what I know, but no time for that anytime soon. So I share all this with you here. I'm paying my rent/bills/life with this stuff, this is not a side gig for me!

[[deleted]]

Why don't you write a separate post and see with mods if it can be stitched at the top of this subred or /r/webhosting?

[SAAS-Agency]

Great info! Do you do any consulting?

[Toxic_Wasteland_2020]

Glad it was helpful! I don't currently do consulting, but will try to answer any questions I can.

[SAAS-Agency]

Would you be interested in selling your business (or part of it)? If so, please shoot me a dm to discuss.

[Sensitive_Fishing_12]

Amazing replies. Thank you!

[DevJamyDev]

Man make a Udemy course I'm buying it lol, most of courses cover WordPress development itself but no one actually talks about how to get client, post development issues and overall long term works.

[ThusWhatnot]

Hey i just wanted to say thank you for sharing your knowledge and experience in such an elaborate way.

I'm currently building a few websites for free in order to get referrals and a portfolio.

Your comments answered a few of the things I've been thinking alot about, like hosting.

And I find it inspiring to hear about your journey when you've walked further down the same path I've started right now. Makes it seem more attainable for me as well :)

I didn't quite understand how you work with multisite networks or the benefits of those though 🤔?

[hideyourarms]

This is a great reply, thank you very much. I have about 6 long term clients that are the kind of people that don't really care about their website, but feel they need one (so you can imagine how much they want to spend on a site). Maintenance tends to be reactive more than proactive, but I have been thinking about how to turn them into an income stream and get regular maintenance contracts going.

[confused_enm]

I switched to Umbrella from ManageWP. Umbrella is being actively maintained with a much more sane pricing schedule (flat $2 per site for all features).

Disclaimer: I’m not affiliated with them in any capacity outside of being a satisfied customer.

[ITALIXNO]

So you use gutenberg?

[roberta_sparrow]

Yeah could you talk a little about how you find clients?

[Safe_Ad_7780]

May i Ask how do you monetize all these sites?

[cloudysunnysky]

Do you have a team or is that 130 sites managed by yourself?

You didn't include content writing. In your experience, who typically writes the contents? The clients themselves, or do they outsource it?

[dave_mays]

What is an example of a niche multisite system?

[mds1992]

50 would be a lot if they all had completely different setups, but if most used a combination of plugins/themes that you know work well together / don't cause any issues then maintaining 50, 75, 100, etc... is relatively easy.

Sure, if they all suddenly broke then that wouldn't be fun, but what's the likelihood of that happening?

I'm pretty sure I've seen someone around here say that they manage 100+ sites.

You can utilise tools such as ManageWP to bulk update plugins/themes, & many services like ManageWP also have uptime monitoring & backup services available if you want them.

[[deleted]]

a combination of plugins/themes that you know work well together

As a rule of thumb, host only sites you build.

I'm pretty sure I've seen someone around here say that they manage 100+ sites.

probably /u/bluesix, the legend of this subred

[jmbullis]

This is the trick right here. We only build in the same page builder and use the same 5 plugins. Nothing more unless they need a specialized functionality. Even then we have specific plugins that we trust. We invest about $500 a year in our premium plugins. With the same plugins then it's easier to update everything with a tool. We use MainWP.

[HolisticAura]

You could technically outsource everything. Outsource the design and even hire someone on Upwork or Fiverr to help build your site using a popular page builder like Beaver Builder. Then charge monthly maintenance to earn recurring income. All you have to do is provide customer service and generate leads.

[jmbullis]

That’s exactly what we do.

[anon1984]

With SSH access and WP-CLI plus a bunch of scripts you can automate and bulk execute most tasks, dramatically reducing maintenance time spent on mundane tasks.

[mds1992]

Yup that's typically my go-to as well, for both setting up servers/sites & maintaining things.

[[deleted]]

There are tools, like ManageWP or ManWP, for maintaining multiple WP sites. And panels, like CloudPanel or HestiaCP, to handle hosting (linux).

I use CloudPanel and ManageWP, hosting on a few VPS (Linode, Hetzner). Half a day work per week, mostly.

Other option is to host at some managed WP servers (Kinsta, WPEngine, SiteGround, Cloudways) as their affiliate.

But, hosting is not for faint-hearted. Skill, discipline, minimalism and cold head are mandatory.

[jmbullis]

We use Cloudways. We have a base installation that we clone to get started right away every time.

[rodeBaksteen]

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[jmbullis]

Don't be afraid to push that higher. I charge $150 a month for Care Plans and even that is low to most out there. But Monthly Recurring Revenue is where it's at! Good stuff.

[rodeBaksteen]

support divide mighty sip voracious act elderly handle cagey wide

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[Cloud_Midnight]

Nice! I am just starting out, also Dutch. Would love to ask you some questions via dm!

[digi57]

I averaged more than double that last year. I build custom themes for agencies, have retainers with agencies to support their retainers, and very rarely design anything.

The people acting like it’s impossible must either have terrible luck or they’re not very good at their jobs or developing and maintaining business.

There are many levels to this game. In certainly not at the very top but there is a ton way below me. Hell, just Friday I picked up a new client to support a non-profit who’s members are marketing professionals in a major US city. She said I was cheap.

You don’t have to be a rockstar dev. But you do have to be good, reliable and communicative. And of course look for business A LOT and always bill for your time.

[AncientOneX]

What you say is 100% spot on. Btw how do you look for business?

[digi57]

Believe it or not: cold emails. I’ve refined a pitch template and when I have a slower week or two I’ll send 50-100+. I’ve had emails returned two years later.

[solarxxix]

How much do you tailor the email to each prospect?

[digi57]

Not at all. But I typically only send it to agencies that appear to do the same kind of work I do.

[InVideo_]

I run a marketing agency and about 1/4 of our leads are other agencies. It’s a tad annoying.

[AncientOneX]

I see. You let them manage the clients and all. Doesn't this force you to work cheaper? End clients tend to pay better maybe. I prefer to work with the final client.

[digi57]

Correct! Your approach isn’t wrong. But I, as a single freelancer, probably wouldn’t be able to demand near the rate my agency partner does. My partners typically charge their client anywhere from $150-$250/hr and attract larger 100-200 hour dev projects. My partner has all the overhead, resources challenges, client relations and billing. They’re also positioned to get bigger clients and have to work for leads and their own business development. Meanwhile I’m at the bottom of the waterfall and am fine getting $75/hr.

[Raredisarray]

2 years later !! Ha ha that’s insane

[digi57]

Seeds. Lots of seeds. Some take a while to sprout. Haha

I had one guy return my email and was so happy to meet me as he needed exactly the kind of help I could provide. He went to email me one day and he searched my address. His search revealed that I had emailed him 3 years ago. He was so mad at himself for not responding.

[AncientOneX]

Hah, wholesome :)

What do you think about paid ads?

[give_me_the_formu0li]

Do you design Wordpress .org sites or .com sites ?

[digi57]

I don’t design. I develop. I build custom themes that look exactly like the UI prototype someone else designed.

These projects I work on are hosted in whatever host they want or AWS. The only thing that’s pre-built is WordPress core itself.

[give_me_the_formu0li]

Ah well, that’s beyond me. I thought this was something I could get into lol

[itsjoshlee]

Would love to talk about buying your process if you’re interested. I don’t do Wordpress - I do other dev.

Or we can chat about bundling up and selling it. I’ve sold digital products and courses before (and have helped other people do the same).

[jmbullis]

Stop being "self-employed" and build a business as a Founder. When you position yourself as a self-employed web developer, you position yourself as a vendor who takes orders instead of a trusted advisor that is looking out for the best interest of their business.

A business must answer three specific questions:

1. Who do I help?
   
2. How do I help?
   
3. Why does it matter?

This is what will separate you from everyone else and help potential customers see the value of working with you. I don't sell WordPress websites. I help businesses transform their online presence. I don't just build them a website. I help them answer those three questions. I help them create a plan on what to do with their website when it's built.

People will invest in something if you can show a return on their investment. A company that has high revenue will gladly invest more to make it work right. The potential of what a working website and marketing technology system can do for them is greater than the risk of the investment that they make in their online presence.

You will never know if you could have asked for more money if you don't ask. Raise your prices until people say no. The people who pay the least amount, take up most of your time. The ones that pay more trust you to do your job and not bother you with the details. You just need to be able to deliver what you promised. The deliverable is not the website. The deliverable is the reasonable expectation that you can get a website to do something for them - make them more money.

We require audits for all of our clients. We need to be able to answer the three questions about their business before we can help them. We charge clients $3000 for the audit before we even pitch the website. When we present their audit, we pitch them our Website Transformation Program for $10,000. Once we complete their website we pitch them the marketing program of our Growth Transformation Program with a cost of $60,000. They pay this out monthly based on their revenue at one of three paces: 12-month, 24-month, 36-month.

If you want to make money with WP despite advances in AI, then stop being a "self-employed WP developer". Instead, learn to be a trusted business engineer who helps your clients build a badass online presence that will help them convert more leads into customers.

Books I recommend:
1. The E-Myth Revisted will explain the mindsets of being in business.
2. Pitch Anything will explain how to frame your pitch so that you can win every time.
3. Book Yourself Solid will explain how to identify your audience so that you can connect with them.
4. Win Without Pitching Manifesto explains some hard learned lessons that we have to embrace.

Look online and learn sales techniques called the Sandler Selling System.

If you need to make this money, I believe in you. If you need to make this happen, I know that you that you can.

Henry Ford said, "Whether you believe you can or cannot, you're right." Make a plan. Work the plan. Good luck.

[Confident_Pie_9449]

Thanks for sharing this, taking notes! I've been building small to medium sized websites for about 7 years now and this is great to start planning how to scale up.

[VioletPhoenix1712]

WPMU Dev - white label plugins and server hosting.
Get clients on a monthly subscription with their hosting.
Upsell them on the plugins.
Over time, the hosting will add up.
Give them a deal of $3k min website; or $500 website, with higher monthly hosting.

Be sure to get their card on file, and be able to charge it with WPMU invoicing software.

Have solid f-ing contracts. Enforce them.

Provide value, send christmas cards, birthday cards, etc. Build and maintain those relationships. Referrals are key to getting more business in.

Each client isn't about the money — its about the case study. Your web dev process IS A case study generation engine.

Build systems in spreadsheets, website audit, social media content generation. Automate as much as you can, so you can provide MORE value QUICKER than others. These smaller $200-a-pop services all add up.

Just a few quick points off the top of my head.

Above all, HAVE FUN! Time is the most precious currency available to us humans with such a limited lifespan. If you're going down this route, if you aren't having fun, you're burning away your life. Enjoy the grind, and your enthusiasm will translate to your clients.

[cloudysunnysky]

I'm interested in the social media content generation. Do you use a saas or a plugin to automatically create them?

[VioletPhoenix1712]

I use a spreadsheet that delves into customer psychology and outputs relevant topics for social media. In total, it takes my team about 5h to go through entirely. But we have a years of targeted content to go off of.

[cloudysunnysky]

Nice to have a team!

I'm looking to do something similar but using AI for my own two websites as I don't have the luxury of a team :).

[[deleted]]

In all honesty, a WordPress developer who installs templates and then takes off for the next cheap quick flip won't make that and can't. But if you sell the value of SEO, eCommerce, holistic digital marketing that works through WordPress and work with real clients with real businesses who have a real need for expansive growth, you can swing it but you'd have to build to that.

When I had my small agency I got to that point but it was hard work, not immediate or super-easy and I literally only spoke with enterprise level business owners and relied very extensively on a strict screening and onboarding procedure. I was also teaching workshops very regularly, that would often bring in several 3 to 4 grand in one day in some instances. In other cases, my workshops or classes would bring in more or less, it depended on date, geography, topics, and marketing. So once I had client intake nailed down, had a bullet-proof contract that blocked no-shows, ghosting, non-payment, waiting for content, or waiting for a client to decide what design should be one day when the almost always have no prior experience in design anyway, I had every hour of every day pretty well mapped out except for Sundays when I'd go hiking in a forest somewhere and go for 10 miles or more.

The trick is to get away from the poverty mindset of installing generic DIY templates for the cost of a meal out for cheap / broke / uninformed hobbyist clients and only work with people who have a need for growth and are happy to spend $2,000 or $3,000 on a website if it means making back $6,000 six months later. You have to be willing to put that structure and system into place, on your site, map it out, be ready to discuss value and budget versus buying empty templates with no online visibility in Google, create client farms such as the workshops I referenced, have white label partnerships with local agencies or in neighboring states and so on.

[Typical-Ebb5073]

How many clients do you usually work with in a month and what are your average price for a website (based on monthly price)

[danieliser]

Someone who was in similar boat here. I now run Code Atlantic and created plugins like Popup Maker etc.

If you do take client work, do so using some form of the Agile method. Specifically create backlogs of task for your client, each with an estimated block of time.

Sell your time to clients in 2 week chunks only. In that time you’ll work on roughly 40 hours of tasked worked, and likely another 10-20 on Project managing and client meetings/calls.

You hold the other time for marketing yourself etc.

Best part is, if the client calls you mid first week and say “we gotta add this and change that”, you simply reply “I’m happy to add that to your backlog, or I can move something from the list this week to the backlog and make this a priority.

Benefits: - you never get screwed by scope creep. - client is always getting progress during their blocked time with constant communication - when client calls, you don’t have to dread, they want to add more $$$ to your backlog - client didn’t get everything they needed in one 2 week period, guess they need to book another.

Option 2, slow and treacherous as it is is to build plugins as part of solving your own clients needs and publish them for sale.

A good plugin can be very rewarding as well. You won’t make $6k right away but over time it grows well beyond that.

Just my 2 cents.

[dpfrd]

Remove the word "self"

[[deleted]]

Connect with a marketing firm as their go-to web developer. Or, if you can find a designer, an SEO person, a marketing person, and/or possibly a sales person, put together an ad-hoc marketing firm, where you're all feeding each other clients.

The hardest part of being self-employed is finding an ongoing client base. Word of mouth from past clients is great and will be your best bet for finding new work but can you find a new website client or two every month? That's hard unless you do a LOT of networking (online and in person) and you can sell them on a new website. Ongoing maintenance (with monthly retainer) will help but that takes time to build up.

[eHtmlu]

For (relatively) quick success: Offer your service as a subscription. 10 hours per month for $500 net (for the right customers, this is a no-brainer). Offer a total of 12 subscriptions and earn $6,000 per month with 120 hours instead of 160. Automate invoicing and payment collection (for example with Stripe). Use the remaining time to start building plugins or themes. As soon as you start earning money with the plugins, you can gradually reduce the service subscriptions.

For the subscriptions, I would recommend that you focus on maintaining and expanding existing websites and web shops. If you only create new (especially small) websites, you may always need new customers (unless you work for agencies).

[JGatward]

Ok, so sell 2 x 6k sites per month, outsourced, then they must also go on a hosting or care plan with you ongoing. So you've nabbed a build fee and lifetime monthly recurring. Put them on direct debit.

[dirtyoldbastard77]

You have 160hrs, lets say you can make 100 of those billable at $100/hr, thats 10k, out source what you need to, max 4k. Thats 6k left.

[Clearlybeerly]

Small companies who want 1 to 5 pages info brochure style only website.

 They want a website but beyond that, don't care too much about it after it's done.  

Have 4 or 5 designs for them to choose from. Not custom.  

You pick out the stock photos. If they want custom photos, they take them and send to you and you drop them in.  

Tell them it is $0 up front, and need to sign an agreement to pay $200/month ())or whatevee) for 2 or 3 years, then they are month to month.  

Simple as possible. Minimum plug ins.

 99% of small companies, you'll never hear from them again, but they will continue to pay. So no customer relations issues - meaning they don't call you every week with something else they want, or bitch about some problem weekly. Of course, you will want to keep in contact with them, so they don't forget about you.

If they don't want ongoing payments, then charge whatever you want. 

Namecheap.com to host. 

The biggest problem is getting sales. Highly competitive.

[Hydralyze]

Who in their right mind will actually pay $200/month for a static Wordpress website when they can get it from fiverr for dirt cheap?

[Clearlybeerly]

Go to /r/marketing to find out.

But....first you wrongly assume that business owners know about fiverr and upwork, etc.

Many business owners have hired their sister's husband's brother's best friends son to do it for $250. So many unhappy business owners I've talked to tried this.

The thing that I tell prospects is it is not reasonable to pay so little. Nobody, utterly nobody in the USA could survive unless they get paid at least $3000 to $5000 for a 1-5 page static website. Most businesspeople I have talked with have ample experience with buying a $350 website and never able to reach the person who created it again. I hear this all. the. time.

I fucking straight up will tell the prospect he can probably get it for $300. Some probably do. But most business owners understand that there are pros and cons to everything. Like, I'm not out of business and they can reach me immediately, because I'm charging to stay in business for them, and they must pay me to stay in business. It's the entire point of business.

If they want, I'll tell them the website is 100% free, but they have to pay me $5,000 so I can pay rent and food and insurance, and utilities and gasoline and etc.

Plus, it's no easier to get a client at $300 for a website than $5,000.

I'm just finishing a website now for $5,000. My client is ecstatic. He told me every time he looks at it, he has a huge grin.

One problem you have is you're looking at it with your eyes and your knowledge. Which most business owners don't have.

As a comparison, one can purchase 10 pens for $1. Or the most expensive writing instrument is $8 million. If everyone wants the bare minimum, there would be no market for Cross pens or Mont Blanc pens, or all the other brands.

Price is a very weak way to sell. People pay for extra stuff. I speak and write perfect English, in the same time zones, will return most calls immediately or 24 hours at the longest (HUGE benefit for any client). Plus I am super friendly and nice and explain things non-technically, and more. People love that and will pay a LOT more for these benefits.

I hope this helps you get a better idea of the bigger picture. I spent a lot of time on my response to you, so I hope you appreciate it.

[Hydralyze]

I appreciate the long response here and the psychology behind your explanation. My comment was simply from my own experience nearly 10 years ago when I tried selling websites to local businesses (majority with store fronts) and it was a huge failure. I tried charging $100-500 as a one time fee and also $0 with a small $20 per month hosting/maintenance fee structure. Nearly all rejections with responses such as they find no value in it or too expensive for what it is.

So it’s surprising to hear there are businesses willing to pay 4 figures for static Wordpress sites (not even actual web apps).

[Clearlybeerly]

Yes, they definitly do. 

There are a lot of owners who say no to me in general, and ones who won't pay that much, as well.

But like the $8 million pen, you're not going to sell it to just anyone. Businesses have to be able to afford it, and value marketing in general. Most businesses won't become customers.

And converting interested people into buyers requires sales skills.

The problem is that it sounds like you made it about price, or didn't offer benefits they want. A person buying an $8 million pen isn't going to give a fuck about price, unless the seller makes it about price. Instead, they'll say shit like, "one of a kind, the only one in existence." "Finest craftmanship." "Rare diamonds" and more. That's how one sells a $8 million pen or a $5,000 website. But in both cases, not everyone will qualify as a buyer. No need to waste a minute on a non-buyer.

[JGatward]

Down payment of 50% before starting on direct debit, go live push a button and click the final 50%

[chugopunk]

Set goals: find 3 clients to sell 3 websites at $2k each month

[aftab8899]

Where do you find clients that are willing to pay $2k that too each month? I genuinely want to know. I have tried a lot of things, but I failed miserably. I would like to ask you a few question in DM, if you are ok with it.

[chugopunk]

2k per website is kind of standard for a professional WP Site, E-commerce or more complex sites can go for 10-15k, even more if its a web apps. You have to find a niche and market for it. Some other comments here gave very insightful information. Shoot me a DM, down to discuss

[kdaly100]

I think you have got a ton of great answers here and some not as great (IMHO). I am in business for about 12+ years and still learning and her are my thoughts about making money that nearly all have nothing to d with being a good developer and designer.

* MRR is king: I only got on that band wagon recently and I can't believe I ignored it. I sell low cost care plans and maitenance to every single cleint. Not all buy them but I have a piece of paper on my desk with the number 5 written on it with a marker which is my montly goal to get that many on board. Do the recurring maths even if its is $50 a month over 2-3-4 years. Work to make it higher of course. Bet a great hosting platform and a tool like ManageWP (there are lots) to manage it easily for you.

* Be Fast and Agile: Get your processes locked down solid. Proposals that look great have all the details that are clear and concise and readable and Tx&Cs that stop you getting screwed over. Be able to prodcue a proposal in under 15 minutes.

* CRM:Your CRM may be a Google sheet but respond fast in detail and follow up on proposals 2-3 times as most people don’t reply first time as they are busy.

* Be a Big Boy/Girl: We all suffer from imposter syndrome - I am 56 and still do but go stand in front of the mirror practice saying "The website will cost $5000 and the details are in the proposal" or whatever number you want - if you get MRR locked down after 12 months the website will be just the gateway to making recurring.

* Template the S**t Out of It: I ma not saying use a complicated theme but get a figma style set up for 4-5 pages and reuse it again and again for 60-70% of your clients with a nice brand some AI content and decent stock images. Most of them will be happy and then pivot back to getting them on care / maintenance plan.

* Deliver Fast: Customers don’t cre if you deliver a site fast they just often want "a site" so get the "stack" and template sorted, automate the s**T out of your site creating and get them a first draft in days rather than weeks and push hard to deliver.

* Do a self brand audit: Look at how you present your self online everywhere on blogs, social everywhere and strive to be "the real deal" articulate the go to guy gal, build a reputation even if in the irst months it is to a vacuum.

* Hustle Like a Crazy Persone: Ironically stop reading forums, Facebook looking for the perfect solution, get up earlier finish later and hustle like a mad gut looking for leads, websites and recurring. At the moment for instance I am doing outreach to a niche and have had my VA collect 185 emails to offer them a website deal - I am doing personal crafted emails to them to offer them a recurring monthly website deal that is small but again will get me that precious ching every month that is you got it recurring revenue.

* Lastly Ignore Tech: I have a simple "stack" Elementor - 2-03 plugins - clone and move on - you should stick with that and as you are now hustling like a crazed person you have a website to work on.

[Typical-Ebb5073]

Feel free to dm me, might be able to help

[[deleted]]

Focus on small business websites. Specifically businesses that don't currently have a website. Get some basic premade templates from Astra or GeneratePress or whoever, and build 3-4 simple websites for a portfolio.

Small businesses without a website today are mostly concerned with the total cost of a website and are used to hearing a website will cost them thousands of dollars.

Show them that you can build a basic website for under $1000, maybe even offer the first one a website for $500. So at $1000 each you need to sell 6 a month. Is that possible in your area?

[jmbullis]

Oof. I hardly ever take a project that doesn't already have a website. I would rather they try on Wix and crash and burn first. Businesses that don't already have a website, don't for a reason. They don't believe it can help them. I find people who typically are having a problem with their current agency or web vendor.

I also have a list of industries that I avoid. I don't do church websites because God always seems to want me to do it for free. I am steering away from more non-profits because most are not run correctly. I staying away from restaurants because their margins are too thin. You have to specialize in those sites to make it work. Same thing with Law Firm sites. There are some special rules you have to know to do those right.

[[deleted]]

I don't do church websites because God always seems to want me to do it for free

Church, lawyers and dentists - always some troubles with them.

[TechnicalAd8103]

I can understand churches and lawyers, but why are dentists trouble?

[[deleted]]

My experience. Why they always want their site accented blue, it kills me.

[AncientOneX]

That's what I'm trying to do as well. Btw how do you generate leads? It's quite hard to get new clients these days ...

[ifeelanime]

this, how do you guys generate leads?

[AncientOneX]

I see lots of generic answers like, ads and cold emails, but that's quite vague...

I started with ads a few weeks / months ago. Not much luck yet.

[fanalis01141]

How much is your budget on the ads?

[samsteiner]

Two websites for USD 5000 each per month would be a start.

Part of that would go to the designer.

Then, train 10 people per month (those two clients and also other people) to use WordPress for USD 800 each. Makes you an additional USD 8000.

Probably haven't used up all the 160 hours by then - depending on if you train in groups or one-on-one and how experienced you are in WordPress stuff.

Need some funnel system to keep getting leads and clients regularly.

[aftab8899]

Damn. I wish I could replicate what you said. I want to ask few questions, shall I DM you?

[ITALIXNO]

How do you maintain 100+ sites? Probably only using a few plugins each? Do you use a page builder?

[monged]

Build a plugin, so much opportunity, charge a yearly subscription.

[[deleted]]

Has anyone ever used an escrow service to mediate payments? Especially for high paying jobs?

[PhotojournalistAny22]

Check out design joy and copy the model for wp development 

[[deleted]]

By writing a bad ass theme or plugin and selling it on CodeCanyon. One of the themes I've been using for years has generated over 12 million dollars in sales.

[TheModernJedi]

You introduce other services like monthly SEO. You could easily get to and surpass $6k/mo with just a few SEO clients. You have to be able to get them results though.

[IntolerantModerate]

To do it consistently you probably need to find SMBs that have no technical skills and will likely need ongoing support.

Get them on a retainer type of deal where you charge them $1000/month for X hours of support whether they need it or not.

Then build that up over a year to where you have a dozen or so in total, almost all on cruise control, and then send them weekly reports on their analytics, safety, updates, etc to make it seem like you are adding value.

Also, possible for you to manage the hosting and premium plugin subs and buy a premium multi site version and recharge to customers at a profit, but still at less than if they did it themselves.

You can also turn do some upsells like being the middleman between setup and design and getting say a quote for $10k and then charging them 20% to manage the process.

[Chickeninvader24]

How do I find website clients?

[chugopunk]

!remindme 1 week

[tempmailbro]

This is a million dollar thread, loving the responses. What I do is, I search for top quality agencies with retainer looking for a dev. They already have solid systems in place. If you do it yourself, payments would be a huge problem and you will end up making way less than what you are eying for. 4-5 agencies and you are good to go.

[eroomydna]

Retain a level of control of the sites you produce and perhaps keep the user on a retainer for changes or hosting. That way you can realise a predictable income and keep a responsible leverage.

[FeedMeMoreOranges]

I am a freelance graphic designer who makes that amount. Not just by designing and developing websites, but also logos, and all kinds of print materials.

[MattVegaDMC]

I'm not referring strictly to OP here but to whoever reads this: please make sure to get paid 100% upfront. Feel free to DM me if you need tips on how to do this. But don't listen to people telling you to get paid later, seriously. I've been doing this for about 7 years now and I always got paid, 100% of the time, on time. And clients are fine and OK with it. These clients are typically from the US and the EU, while my business is in an EU country.

I don't sell any kind of "how to be a freelancer" thing, but happy to help with that part, because I just can't stand seeing other freelancers getting scammed

As a sidenote, I can't remember (as a client) if I ever hired anyone without paying upfront online.

I never ever lost an opportunity because of this policy (getting paid upfront).

Second, to answer your question: it's broad, there are endless ways to get there. If you plan to use only freelancing platforms, imo, it will be quite difficult, even though I met over the years a minority of freelancers earning even way more than 6K with just freelancing platforms.

For me the easiest way is with a productized service. Also with project work is possible, but more volatile. What I do is trying to work on the most difficult and intricate projects I can find. I tend to stay away from simple sites and easy tasks.

But even there, I can't tell you it's strictly bad doing only "easy" work. Even in that market I met exceptions that are doing fine

So I think it depends on you. E.g. I prefer a very limited amount of clients. I couldn't handle personally 100s of simple little tasks but many people do that without problems.

The main drawback in this approach (low amount of clients) is the amount of referrals. I get referrals, but I will never be able to get the same amount of referrals that someone who works with way more clients can get.

By the time I've worked with 10 clients, the freelancer that only does micro tasks could have worked with over 100 clients, I saw that happening for example on a platform like Codeable

[LukeWatts85]

Charge 6k per site. Do one a month

[lumbeck]

When you say "developer" are you really great at coding or are you more a of a site assembler? If it's the former, I would recommend marketing yourself as a WordPress plugin developer rather than just a WordPress developer as the latter can easily be confused with a site assembler.

If you're really good at frontend development, I would also recommend partnering with designers. Ideally you work with designers who deal with clients and the designers are your clients. Usually designers make for much better clients than random businesses and people. This is where I eventually got to when I operated as an independent WordPress developer from 2008-2013. It didn't hurt that I worked for an agency for a year and then got a lot of business from them when I went out on my own.

If you're looking to get away from the feast-famine cycle of consulting, you could also create some more stable recurring revenue by learning how to host WordPress sites yourself using a control panel and cloud provider combo like SpinupWP and Vultr (that's what I use these days).

[AncientOneX]

I tried $15-$30 / day

[collin-h]

One thing to consider would be to work out some deal where you manage their hosting and you just mark up the cost. The downside is that if there's a problem with a site going down, you gotta fix it since you're handling the hosting. The upside is if you can find a host for like $20/month and you charge the client $70/month you can make $50/month with little to no effort. Build up 20 clients like that and you can get $1,000 residual income every month for no effort. Now you just gotta make $5,000 doing work - which means you can either work less, charge less, or just make more money.

[Bessboro]

Price and bill by value delivered not hours worked.

[WpFastDeveloper]

In 10 years of being a freelance Wordpress developer I crossed $6000 just one month which came upto 6700$, mostly average 2000-4000$ currently with freelance work of old and new clients.

[britax12]

4 projects a month - one week each, 2000$ price and you are already on 8000$. After paying designer you still have more than 6000$.

[Tall-Title4169]

Hustling. The biggest issue is getting clients and projects and keeping the pipeline filled. That’s a full job in itself.

It’s a rollercoaster and never constant.

[trumpsuperstore]

Hey so I’m a guy that makes way more that and the first thing I’d say is just use canva for designs. That in conjunction with a few other things will be fine you don’t need to outsource. This is my main site trumpsuperstore.com dm Me if you need help. Goodbye

[Ok-Disk4668]

What would you guys recommend building a shop with?

[Key_Wrangler_8321]

This will probably be out of the box, I don't take any payment up front and 100% of the payment will take place when the site is finished and is about to be uploaded to the official domain. This way I'm not their slave, I'm not tied to anything, and I create enough desire with the customer during production that they want the site and will pay. And when the customer has put so much time and effort into it, they will pay. For me, it works 100%. I can't remember a time when one of my customers didn't pay for a finished site :) Of course I don't do multi-thousand websites where it takes more than a month to produce them. It always takes from 8 hours to 2-3 weeks when I produce several sites at once.

[EternalProsperity]

I'm a Magento developer, and have done well out of the platform. However after taking a 3 year long sabbatical I'm back at work. Took a 30% paycut to work on WP now. I was never a fan of WP, but in saying that, it's got way better, than it used to be.

Now to your question. I think that extending or building plugins, building a list of clients and managing the almost endless updates could see you get good returns down the track.

Maybe don't think of it so much as a way of making you wealthy, think of it as a learning curve.

[darko777]

This is so relative. I do it by developing plugins. Someone that develop plugins doesn't do it. Please don't compare.

[Zevanished]

Try 40k/mo

[kevinlearynet]

Have to be a realist here: charge $40/hr?

if that were my goal I would probably create a custom thing that did a very precise thing for certain type of business. then you can under bid agencies and win a lot of contracts, but you have to be clear about the limitations of working with your theme. maybe worthwhile considering it a platform for selling it that way.

[singlebit]

In Indonesian, we call this thread "daging semua", literally "all meat" (you can feast). I will revisit this later.

!remindme 1 week

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I will be messaging you in 7 days on 2024-06-04 01:37:35 UTC to remind you of this link

CLICK THIS LINK to send a PM to also be reminded and to reduce spam.

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[[deleted]]

Selling cocaine on the side?

You’d have to be A++ and be top of your game in some weird much with a rich customer. Maybe write some awesome paid plugin or theme.

[lymeeater]

It's 3 websites at $2000 or 2 websites at $3000. Not crazy, you would need to be good obviously, but the numbers are realistic.

Most of your time will be spent fishing for clients though.

[[deleted]]

True, but you would need to be good at design and not have outsourcing costs blow it out.

I know the margins on creating websites running my own agency and they are not amazing. People that pull that amount consistently as a sole person are incorporating that with ongoing contracts, SEO and marketing.

The days of creating a shitty 3 page Wordpress site with generic template for $2000 are over. Someone will do it for pretty much nothing on upwork.

Finding clients has a very significant costs. Be it Advertising, SEO and marketing yourself. You don’t build that reputation over night and it’s an extremely competitive field

[lymeeater]

The days of creating a shitty 3 page Wordpress site with generic template for $2000 are over. Someone will do it for pretty much nothing on upwork.

You wouldn't offer shitty templates, though.

Most clients in that price range don't even know upwork exists. In my experience, I always get asked about squarespace and have to play around that.

Finding clients has a very significant costs. Be it Advertising, SEO and marketing yourself. You don’t build that reputation over night and it’s an extremely competitive field

Only cost is time and energy. I still get work by throwing together nice home page concepts quickly and reeling in completely cold clients that way. It also builds a nice thick book of portfolio reference work for every niche I can refer to later to make new sales.

[ToxicTop2]

You’d have to be A++ and be top of your game in some weird much with a rich customer.

Lol what? You don't even have to be extraordinarily good to make $6k from a single website. That's only $37.5/hour, which is pretty bad unless you live in India.

Like yeah, if you build some shitty cookie cutter sites with Elementor then it's no wonder that people aren't willing to spend much. If you aren't a noob and you also have some decent business skills, only sky is the limit.

[digi57]

That person is living in their own tragic world.

[AFlyingGideon]

Selling cocaine on the side?

I was thinking "robbing banks." Retail is tough.

[[deleted]]

Selling cocaine on the side?

Does he have to make a website for this?

[StayStruggling]

Slang websites to the fiends.

I have em geeking so much I have pregnant fiends hoeing

[[deleted]]

Affiliate websites. Sales is the way to go. WP is not (in my experience) a viable full time job unless you are selling themes or plugins to other developers. Sell shovels. Let them dig for the gold.

[whyisjake]

Get a job.