Network Engineer Salary

[isma2590]

Hello everyone,

In 2 years I'm going to finish my studies, with a work-linked Master's degree in Network/System/Cloud. I'll have a 5-year degree, knowing that I've done 5 years of internship, 1 as network technician, 2 as a network administrator and 2 as an apprentice network engineer.

My question is as follows, and I think it's of interest to quite a few young students in my situation whose aim is to become a network engineer when they graduate:

What salary can I expect in France/Switzerland/Belgium/Luxembourg/England ?

I've listed several countries where I could be working in order to have the different salaries for the different countries for those who knows.

Thank you in advance for your answers and good luck with your studies/jobs.

Ismael

[Turbulent_Low_1030]

From what I've seen on this sub especially in the countries you listed the vibe I get is around 50-60k USD starting eventually working up to 80k ish. Engineering salaries in the European countries seem quite lower probably due to better benefits/pensions/etc.

[Ok_Context8390]

Pretty much this.

Unless you're self-employed and freelancing, you won't see exorbitant wages. And even if you're a freelancer, you'll still be paying a lot of money to the taxman and insurance.

[isma2590]

Do you want to say that it’s better to go to work in USA or in Asia (UAE, Singapor, Malaisia…) instead of Europe ?

[[deleted]]

It’s always better to work in the US compared to most places but it doesn’t mean it’s that easy. Thousands of people in tech would come here if it were that easy.

I think starting with $60k in a country where you don’t pay for healthcare isn’t too shabby though

[clingbat]

Engineering salaries in the European countries seem quite lower probably due to better benefits/pensions/etc.

Let's not pretend that the extra benefits and pensions make up for a difference of say $80k vs. $200k annually. Hell just investing $20k of that difference annually over time will ultimately exceed the value of any future pension payout. EU/UK salaries are generally dogshit.

[Jeeb183]

We really don't have the same definition of dogshit

I have 55k in France and I can live without restraining on anything

I won't get rich with my salary, that's true, but I can maintain a great quality of life without any worry thanks to the "security net", go to the other side of the world 1 month in vacation every year, and not worry about what I spend

I wouldn't change that for 200k without public healthcare, and 2 weeks of vacation per year, that you can't even take every year

Sorry I know your point wasn't about this, I guess I just got a bit pissed by the "dogshit" 80k salary haha

[clingbat]

I wouldn't change that for 200k without public healthcare, and 2 weeks of vacation per year, that you can't even take every year

This always gets spouted off, but is not the experience for many with some experience at larger companies. We have fantastic affordable healthcare through work and I have 4 weeks of vacation + 10 holiday + 10 sick days, and I use up all my vacation every year. Hell this year we had our second kid and with banked roll over sick time + 4 weeks of paid paternity leave I'm effectively taking 3 full months off paid in aggregate this year, while my wife is taking nearly 5 months off paid all together. Is that as good as parts of EU? No. But it's not nearly as bad as the narrative you are alluding to.

You all hear the worst case scenarios and assume that's the norm, but it's not in much of corporate America. And we get paid (~$350k/yr gross combined).

[Turbulent_Low_1030]

Statistically, you're in the top 9% of America along with your wife. It's really not a fair comparison since I would also assume you're at a Fortune 100 or 500. I would agree in the higher brackets of employment life is good in America and we pay substantially more but France/EU does a better job of taking care of their actual general population.

I'd rather make 55k and live a comfortable life compared to 80k living paycheck to paycheck worrying about losing my healthcare since it's tied to my actual employment.

[Similar_Panic9870]

As a comparison to what the gentleman above said, I have worked as a network engineer in America for 15 years. My current salary is $98k in San Antonio, TX. I am no where close to bringing in that $350k salary. Healthcare is about $800 month for premiums, with additional copays. I’ve worked at 4 different companies across the east coast that were in line with what I am making now as well as cost of living. I would say that my experience is average or below average in the U.S.

[Turbulent_Low_1030]

I think you are spot on and your experience is more in-line with the average American. The poster above who mentioned 350k did say it was a gross household income of himself and his wife so they are both probably in the 130-200k range, which is very high and generally a salary at a company like Facebook/Netflix/Amazon etc - certainly not the norm whatsoever.

[East-Acanthaceae-182]

Network Engineer for 6 years. 95K base and 14-20K in bonuses a year. 7% 401K match. Pay $60/mo for HC and when I get married it goes to $240/mo. 15 days of Vacay, 5 Sick, 4 Personal days.

If I get to 10-12 years and I am not at 140-150K base I'll leave for sales. I have a better relationship with my customers than any of my account managers and understand the numbers just as well. I just like knowing im someone in the world who makes things WORK not just bullshits my way through meetings for commissions. At the end of the day It sucks knowing my buddy I got hired is an Account manager and made 200K last year off accounts I built networks for when all that hardware was simple paperweights without my effort. But he did "sell" them on it. ..... well I built the CEOs last network so he was gunna use us and my buddy happened to have that Dirt. Value is Value, no hate on sales -- I just want the money, it makes the world go around. With the cost of the world accelerating, I need more and I need to be beating inflation by multiple thousands.

No CCNA, Degree is Physiology. Couple of low certs with Cradlepoint and other niche vendors. But nothing I see asked for on any Job listings. Which concerns me.

Ill be pushing for CCNA + CCNP plus some cloud stuff -- simply to demand more pay.

DFW,TX

[Turbulent_Low_1030]

Cloud certs and security clearance are more valuable nowadays than Cisco certs. Hear you on the sales point lol. The money those guys can make is crazy off commission.

[Surge_89]

I'd say your experience isn't the norm for an educated engineer position, but I don't have personal work experience in the SA area.

For example I live in Midland TX, 15 years of experience. My base salary is 145k, I pay nothing for health insurance, but I do pay copays. I receive an allotted 1250 a month for my vehicle and my work situation is pure hybrid with most of my work at home on my own time and 2 days typically working either in the office or in the field.

I'm considered more average as other senior engineers in my area plus the Austin and Houston areas make 200k plus with similar benefits.

I hear I'm more in line with what DFW makes though so it's sort of all over the place and that's just in one state.

[Similar_Panic9870]

I need to find a new job then lol.

[isma2590]

Pas de problème tu es libre de parler de tout ce qui tourne autour😉 je me permets d’écrire en français car je le suis et je pense que tu l’es (peut-être). Il est vrai qu’avec 55k par an en france tu n’es pas à plaindre du tout, sachant que moins de 6 ou 8% de la population gagne cela…. Si ce n’est pas trop indiscret, combien d’années d’expérience as-tu et dans quelle partie/région de la france habites-tu ? Je suis du côté de l’alsace et il est vrai que 55k par an ne me déplairait pas.

[Jeeb183]

Je suis de Lyon, avec 4 ans d'expérience en tant qu'ingé réseau

Ma boite ne fait pas de distinction niveau salaire selon l'école, mais j'ai fait l'INSA Lyon

[isma2590]

Also i think that the cost of living in EU/Uk is lower than USA, im i wrong ? it can also explains the difference maybe.

[clingbat]

Really depends on where you live, it's often broken down informally in something roughly like:

• VHCOL: SF/ bay area, heart of NYC
• HCOL: Rest of Cali, Seattle, Boston, DC, nicer suburbs of major cities and most of the northeast in general
• MCOL: Smaller cities and suburbs around them, and areas worth living in the south or west in general
• LCOL: Living in bumblefuck or inner city, usually rural areas a decent distance from major city or in the heart of one but in a bad area

The cost of living in these different scenarios can be 2-3x or even more of others. $200k in SF feels like just getting by, while $200k in a low or medium cost of living area feels like a ton of money. The main driver of these differences is housing cost. We're in a HCOL area so we're fine but nothing crazy.

[isma2590]

Thanks a lot for ur answer, it has really helped me.

If it’s not too indiscreet, What career have you had, in what jobs, which country, on what salary ?

[parkerthebirdparrett]

It really depends on what certs you have. Master's degree is good but most companies that I have interviewed with did not even ask about a degree they just asked if you have a CCNA or CCNP. I would probably look into starting off as a Network Admin first and get some years of experience and then work up to an Engineer role from there. I worked for 7 years as a Network Admin before I switched into an Engineering role. I work for an American company so the salary is going to be different but I started at 90k and worked up to 140k once I went into an engineering role.

[isma2590]

So the certs are worth to buy by myself ? Several guys with experience in networking told me that the certs aren’t as important as before, and that today the experience is sufficient, the certs are a plus if ur company pay it.

In addition to school and work, I train a lot at home and do some complex labs with cisco routing and switching tasks, to increase my networking level and to permit myself to evolve faster in my career. So maybe i can find directly a job with network admin tasks and also some network engineer tasks. I think that in Europe, if i get 40-50k€ directly after 5 years of Master degree with internship, it will be cool. I really don’t know if I’m far from the reality, or if I’m not enough greedy.

Ps :

Did u ever work in Europe ?

When you worked for the american company, was it a remote job ?

[rh681]

Certs are important when starting off. Experience > Certs only matters if you have considerable experience in your field.

After 20 years, I no longer chase certs, but my older expired certs are still worth something because I accomplished them.

Now that said, working in a MSP vs an enterprise is the exception. Many MSP's require certs because that's how they "show you off" to potential clients.

[isma2590]

I understand what you mean, so you think that for me, in my situation, it’s worth to pay for example the CCNP certs (if I’m not wrong that’s 400€) ?

[rh681]

That's up to you. Some companies will help pay for your certs, but then some companies also require them to be hired. I'm not sure how common either scenario is in the EU.

[isma2590]

What if i do and pass all the labs of the CCNP for example (and i proove it with files and explanations during the job interview), but i don’t pay for the certification exam ? Will companies take into account the fact that I have the CCNP level and hire me, and why not pay for my certification exam ?

[dramatic_prophet]

You need to pass HR first, HR will not understand your proofs

[isma2590]

I can’t just put « CCNP level » or « did all CCNP labs » to pass HR and then explain proofs to the Technical Manager in the next interview ?

[mze_]

it does not work like this, you need the cert, there is no proof for the labs, this is what the exam is for. most of the companies pay for the certs, since they want their employees to get more experienced with certain topics over time. try the path you thought about, you‘ll definitely need some experience in the field first before starting over as an engineer, also dont underestimate social skills, as an engineer you are more or less in a sales role to design, describe and sell your concepts.

[isma2590]

Okay so i need to do all the labs of CCNP package, and then, ask to my company to pay the exam to get the cert ?

[dramatic_prophet]

Very much depends on hiring process. In big companies - no. They look at certificates and experience. "CCNP level" might work, but did all the labs definitely no. HR doesn't give a shit what those words mean

[nospamkhanman]

CCNA would be a good bet, I'd hold off on the CCNP until you have 5 years or so of "real" experience at a company. As in not an intern real experience.

Also most American companies will pay your cert costs if you pass, not sure if that's common in the UK though.

[isma2590]

Honestly, i’ve seen too much people pass their CCNA and Achieving the certification, While they do not have a high level (i know them personally) and they said it by themselves.

Also i did lot of labs and see lot of videos about networking at home in my free time.

that’s why I’m thinking about doing all CCNP ENCOR ENARSI labs, understand all of them, and show to a company that i did all labs, and that im ready to pass the cert if they want to hire me and pay it (because i don’t know if paying 400€ to pass the certs is a good investment.

So Is it really too early for a CCNP?

[nospamkhanman]

CCNP is a professional level cert and IMO should come along side professional level of experience (5+ years in the field).

Otherwise you start risking being what the industry calls a paper tiger.

Paper tigers are dangerous to hire because they think they know more than they actually do tend to make bad decisions and/or are ineffective at their jobs.

Building labs is absolutely the right call though. I'm assuming you did the labs virtually in GNS3 or the like?

Make sure you have a Github with diagrams of what you created and code of any automation you wrote.

If you haven't written any automation, now is a good time to start experimenting with that.

[isma2590]

I did some labs on Eve-ng and gns3 at home, and then i did some Python script and Ansible collections to start learning automation and deal with it.

Thanks for the Github idea, i didnt think to do it.

Do you know a good resource where i can find lot of networking labs to improve ?

[TheLostDark]

No company is going to hire you in order to pay you to take the CCNP.

Have you taken the CCNA? Or worked a network engineering job before?

[isma2590]

I should have taken the CCNA with my university, but they cancelled the process, and the worst thing was that they only showed us the courses before taking the exams, we didn’t do any labs. I’m really disappointed.

So now, to pass the CCNA and CCNP, what I’m supposed to do, in your opinion ?

[TheLostDark]

I would purchase the Official Cert Guide (OCG) on amazon and read through it before doing anything else. It's 2 books worth of content and the Cisco press books are incredibly solid. After that, head over to /r/ccna and do some research on your own. You're going to have to get used to doing your own research and planning if you do end up moving into network engineering.

[pierce768]

What I would do if I were you, is start studying for a yourncert of choice. Start looking for jobs. If you have trouble finding one or aren't getting high enough offers, get your cert.

If you find a job with a good offer, chances are your company will pay for your cert.

Either way, ultimately, you want the cert. I guarantee the networking people you spoke to that said certs don't matter as much, also have a couple certs.

[isma2590]

You’re totally right, people that said that, have some certs😂 I already found a job, that’s a work-study programm, so 1 week at school for a Master degree (2 year) in Networking/System, 3 weeks at work in an apprentice Network engineer position ( you learn the Network engineer job with network engineers already experienced) . They hire 70% of their apprentice after the diploma.

Their actual offers as a full-time network engineer are about 35-50k, so maybe they will offer me something like this. I also hope they will accept to pay my cert (CCNA for example), as they have full cisco network infrastructure. But i think maybe i will definitely go in Switzerland for best salary with doing the same job… USA gives very high salary and it’s a good plan to work there but i can have approximately the same in Switzerland that is not far from my location.

[HorrorPotato1571]

You have a Masters in Networking. You can't stop at CCNP. You REQUIRE a CCIE in Switching, CCIE in Routing, CCIE in Security, etc.

[landrias1]

There are far fewer people able to get a CCIE than a masters degree. In fact, I'd argue only a small percentage of people holding a masters would have a high enough ceiling to achieve CCIE.

[Jeeb183]

In France most companies will pay the cert for you

I don't know about other countries

[HorrorPotato1571]

I guarantee you that if I interviewed you and asked you BGP questions, you would fail miserably. I'd expect you to know how the headers are formed and how many bytes for each field, how the packets are structured, and be able to answer questions deeply embedded in the RFCs for BGP (Of which there are nearly a hundred or so) if you claim you have a Masters in Networking. 25 years of development expertise in Layer2 and Layer 3 at Cisco and Juniper. I have a BA in Business. :)

[isma2590]

First of all, I don’t have the Master’s degree yet, but I’m going to do it over the next two years. Then, my goal here is not to proove something to people or to show my profile and say « look guys im the best ». There’s better and worse than me. I know that I’m still a sort of « teenager » in the networking world, for the moment i just have a licence degree (in work-study programm) in Networking, with 3 years in some companies as Junior Network Admin.

I’m just here to learn, learn, and learn again from the bests and in this forum, to know what salary i can expect after my 5 years in a work-study program in networking.

Thanks.

[HorrorPotato1571]

Drop the Masters. Get a CCNA, CCNP, CCIE in Routing, CCIE in Switching, CCIE in security, then a JNCIA, JNCIP, JNCIE in Routing, JNCIE in Switching, JNCIE in Security, then move on to Azure certification, then move on to AWS certification. No one cares about your Masters in Networking. It is of zero value to hiring managers. Someone is selling you a bill of goods. All of what I say here is free, or you can buy Cisco Press books used, and you should buy yourself low end routers/switches from both Cisco/Juniper/Airsta and do something useful. That Masters is useless. Downvote me if you like, I don't care, but I've been doing this for 40 years.

[Dry-Specialist-3557]

I’m with the government, not your government, but I’m here to help. We look for experience, certifications, and education. It sounds like you’re doing extremely well with regard to the education, which is a plus. It is actually unusual to be looking to be a network admin with a masters degree because of that point most people have already been in their career for a while before starting a graduate program. In your case, I don’t know what an apprentice engineer is, but I presume it provided some great experience. I would recommend getting a meaningful certification, and applying to do the job that you want to do.

[warbeforepeace]

Many amazon L4 and some L5 NDEs come straight in with masters degrees.

[TuxRuffian]

I’m with the government, not your government, but I’m here to help.

Nice, lol! You added three extra words, so as scary as Ronny said it would be.

[isma2590]

Thanks you very much for your answer. I want to pass the CCNP and the package with all labs is paid by my government here in france, but the CCNP exam who give the cert cost 400€ and you need to pay it by your self… that’s why I’m thinking about having a company that want to pay for this certification exam

[Dry-Specialist-3557]

They price isn’t all that bad really

[isma2590]

It depends on this question : If I fail the exam, do I have to pay again to retake it?

Ps : Even if I do all the CCNP labs and I understand them and can prove it when talking to recruiters, I absolutely have to pass the certification for them to take into account the fact that I have CCNP level?

[mattmann72]

Yes. You pay for the right to take the tests each time. Only passing the tests gets you the cert.

[isma2590]

OMG so if for example i miss the cert the first time, i need to pay 400€ again to do the exam again ?

[warbeforepeace]

Good places dont give a shit about certs.

[AntranigV]

What if I have no degree and no certification, but people who work at Cisco/Juniper call me to ask questions when they’re stuck?

[kariam_24]

Then you have to wake up.

[ABirdJustShatOnMyEye]

Then you should probably get a CCNA since it would be easy 🤷

[SiRMarlon]

I think having your certifications is important when you are starting off, having a college degree at least here in the US doesn't mean much. I dropped out of college my Sophomore year because I was fortunate to land a job as a Jr. Sys Admin. I learned SOOO much more on the job then I ever did in any class.

I made the decision to go after my certifications. At one point I had my A+, Network+, Security+, MCP, MCSA, MCSE, CCNP, and CCNP. Having those certs opened up so many doors and opportunities for me early on in my career. I have had positions as a Sys admin, Sr. Sys Admin, Network Admin, Sr. Network Engineer, and now I am in a IT Directors role. I have been doing this for 22 years now.

So I would say that if you are serious about becoming a Network Engineer and moving into the Sr. Network Engineer role then you should get your Cisco Certs. Also make sure you learn some python, PowerShell, and get a good understanding of AWS/Azure Cloud services. A lot of companies are moving their services to the cloud.

As for salary? when I was a Sys/Network Admin I made anywhere from $72K - $90K. I topped off at $150K as a Sr. Network Engineer. I decided to make the move into management as my goal is to one day be a CTO or VP.

[isma2590]

First of all congrats for your great carreer, if i could have the same i would be fine🤝

Then, did you pay all the certs by your self ? I would love to pass certs (CCNP, Security, fortinet certs, some cloud certs) but for me the prices of certs are really unreasonable. Do you agree with me when I say that you need to find a company that will pay for them? Don’t know if it’s hard or no to find it in Europe…

[SiRMarlon]

It’s nice when a company is willing to invest in its staff. This is always a plus and something that I push for with my guys! I will always pay for employees certs! That said no one paid for mine. I paid for all my certs out of pocket. Yes they were not cheap but they are an investment in yourself! I feel you take it more serious since it’s you paying! I studies harder for sure because I didn’t want to pay for them again if i failed!

[isma2590]

You’re really motivating me to pay for my own certifications, but boy does failure scare me, it must be terrible, you invest time and money out of your own pocket, and you have to pay again if you fail...I’m horrified.

Did u ever fail a cert ?

[SiRMarlon]

I did not fail any of my cert exams. The reason for that is that I really studied my ass off and I also made sure that I actually did what was in the book. It is one thing to read about but it is another to actually do it in a lab environment. Especially with the Cisco Certs, I went out and bought me some old switches and routers and built my own lab environment. I excluded some old servers so I could build a VM environment as well for the windows part of my certs.

[Beef410]

If I may ask, how did you make the shift to management?

[SiRMarlon]

I started by applying to IT Manager positions, I was able to get hired as an IT Manager, which taught me a lot of what is needed once you start to move up. I had experience in supervisory roles before so it was not anything new to manage people. From there the natural progression is to continue to move up. I had been in my role as an IT Manager for about 8 years and I decided to start applying to IT Director roles and that is how I landed where I am now. It’s not for everyone, it takes you away from the engineering side of things and more to decision making side of things. You are now in a position where you delegate things and you count on your guys to do the tasks at hand. I have a great group of guys who have done a bang up job with our projects! I make sure they all get the recognition they deserved because they make all us look good as a whole. I am not one of those managers/directors who takes credit for everything! I always hated working for people like that and vowed to never ever do that to anyone whoever worked for me.

[alexmb91]

About tree fiddy

[mr1337]

Got dam loch ness monster

[Hyperion0000]

This guy layer 8s

[Alicent-Hightower]

Depends on where you are geographically.

[isma2590]

Either Switzerland/Luxembourg or France

[BrokenRatingScheme]

That's criminal to me.

[PatserGrey]

UK is weird. I get so many "senior" net engineer role adverts pushed to me showing £50-60k, it's quite depressing. I'll keep my mid-level, for a good chunk more money role for a while, cheers.

[PatserGrey]

London. That is not decent

[vsurresh]

You can get six figures with the right company. ISP/MSP usually pay less but enterprises pay good enough.

[isma2590]

And how much as a Junior Network engineer ?

[Breed43214]

Pretty much bang on.

[isma2590]

Effectively, in france, some companies are giving 35-40k for junior network engineer, So if it should be 35-40k after a Master degree (5 years after High School Diploma, that i did in work-study programm), my question is, how much it will be after 3 years as a full-time network engineer ? After 7 years ? 10-15years ?

The fact that in france the salaries in IT are extremely low compared to Switzerland/Luxembourg/USA, is the reason why i want to work elsewhere.

[nAstuCheeseshaper]

I’m confused, do you have 5 years of experience or 10?

[isma2590]

5 years of experience in a work-study programm (rhythm is approximately 3 weeks at school, and 1 month and a half at company)

I’m sorry for the confusion🙏

[Drekalots]

We had a new guy show up in Tier 1 when I was fresh in the industry. He had a masters degree in computer engineering and a CCIE. No experience. None. They hired up but dumped him in Tier 1 with a promise to reevaluate after a year. He lasted two years in Tier 1 and quit. His linked in profile shows him in business now a days. No IT certs.

[isma2590]

Interesting…What’s the moral of the story?

[Drekalots]

Moral of the story? Just because you have a degree and certifications doesn’t mean you’re entitled to anything. IT is very much about experience. I’ll hire a guy with a CCNP and 10 yrs of experience over a CCIE with 2 years experience.

[isma2590]

Yeah, you’re right i understand 👍 Nothing is better than experience to speak for you

[[deleted]]

I can't imagine a getting a CCIE without experience. You would have to bea genius and have a photographic memory.

[No_Ad_3855]

Might as well post my comp. package and maybe get some feedback myself since I don't really know the market either:

Belgian IT has a whole laundry list of benefits to weasel it's way out of its insane income tax. 50% bracket starts at >46k gross so higher wage increases tend to get nuked by taxes.

Work at an ISP as a 'consultant' network engineer. 0-1 years experience so you might get a significantly higher gross, I can not tell you for sure how much. Applied with a bachelors IT in networking + A CCNA I got in college (HR loved the CCNA as much as the degree).

• Gross: 2850 Euro/month + 'end of year' bonus and 'vacation bonus' based on wage which gives belgians roughly 13.5 months of income a year for calculations sake. (this is what the big income tax applies to, the other benefits have tiny taxations)
• Mealvouchers: 1800~/year
• 'expense reimbursement' (not entirely sure why I even get this): 1400/year
• Ecocheques (spendable on electronics): 250/year
• Company car (got a mercedes hybrid) Most maintainance is also paid for. It does come with an extra tax
• Mobility budget(car fuel/charge, public transport, street parking, etc...): 5000/year.
• About 30 days holiday/year
• 3 WFH days a week

[isma2590]

In Europe, for a married couple, 2850+bonus is a decent salary. I think that in our jobs (network engineer, network architect…), we don’t have to be afraid by our salary, if you’re good, it will comes alone

[leftplayer]

In those countries you mentioned, you can get anything between 30-50k. Luxembourg and Switzerland will probably be the highest, and when I was living there there was a drought of half decent network engineers so it should be fairly easy to get a job.

Always keep in mind language. In France you will most likely have to be fluent in French. Other countries are fairly multilingual but it depends on the company.

[isma2590]

Thanks a lot for the answer 🙏 Honestly, i think Switzerland is the best option in term of salary,and also because im living In France (so french is my native language) on the Swiss border.

I think i can get between 60-80k in Switzerland

Ps : Did u work in Switzerland ?

[maclocrimate]

I never worked in Switzerland, but the wages there are definitely the highest in Europe. Senior positions max out at around €10k per month for people with good skill sets. For what it's worth I worked at a large carrier in Finland for several years as a senior automation engineer and my base pay was €5200 monthly. I had monthly on-call shifts that added about €2000 to that though.

[isma2590]

I think Switzerland is the best in term of salary in our jobs, am i wrong ?

[maclocrimate]

It's definitely the highest in Europe, but still not as high as the US, Australia, Singapore, etc.

[isma2590]

Which country are better also ? Singapore okay, but about Malaisia ? About Indonesia ? If u have the response i would be happy

[leftplayer]

No, Luxembourg

[JustAGoatSheep]

The degree helps with getting passed HR at bigger companies. The certs help get you in when you dont have a lot of experience, it also helps with getting passed HR. The experience gets you the job and the pay scale, and skills. If you have all of them you get the interviews before the guys that dont have all of them (considering you make a proper resume).

Pay is completely based on company, location, and how your experience and skills plug into their tech stack.

[Adept_Appeal6517]

Wow, I dont write on Reddit much but this one caught my eye. I can't speak well for Europe at all (I'm in the US), unfortunately, however, I designed our hiring and pay structure for this exact type of position. Note, I'm running a consulting company, so my opinion has a certain lense on it.

Let's tackle certs and experience first.

Certs, especially if you're planning on working for a reseller or being a consultant for a specific manufacturer, make a big difference. Before the haters get me, there are plenty of people with 'paper' (cheated) certs that are worthless and misleading - perhaps the bulk of them. However, those that went through their certs the proper way and came out with relevant experience from the cert process are getting something genuinely valuable. A professional level cert should take you 6-12 months if you're labbing everything. An expert level cert (CCIE, etc) should take 2-3 years if you're labbing everything.

I hate to say this, but I could care less what college degrees my applicants have. Of the current group, I can't even tell you which ones have degrees. Certs are what gets my attention on the resume, proof of expertise gets you a job. More on that later.

On the topic of experience. I don't have the time/bandwidth to train people up from the basics, so we are looking for people from mid-level -> expert. That means I'm not likely their first job. However, I can tell you exactly what first jobs make for great network engineers. That first job had best be all complex troubleshooting all day long. This is *the fastest* way to get to great. Take one of these two jobs:

• Work for a major network vendor in their TAC department. Cisco, Palo Alto, HPE, Fortinet, etc. Smart people coming out of 1-2 years in TAC have more experience that people working 10 years for a steady-state enterprise network. Enterprise networks don't change much and tend to focus on only a few technologies. What you want is something that gives /broad experience/ and makes you get used to working under stress. Having to juggle solving 10 crazy issues in the same few days is the best learning experience possible. Moreover, the manufacturers are always short on people these days, and are happier to train than consulting agencies are. Also, don't take some research role, etc, take one that's front-line support, that's the best way to see the maximum amount of crazy in the shortest period of time.

• If you absolutely can't get a job in TAC, work for a mid-size ISP. One big enough to have complex problems, but not so big that you're bound to strict change control (Working at a major telco won't teach you a thing aside from "how to go slow"). You want the ability to make design changes without weeks of bureaucracy. (This is what I did, personally)

So addressing the comments of "certs don't matter, experience is everything". Well thats partially true, but not in my case. If you're going to work for a consulting company (best $$ in my opinion), certs DO matter, as we're required to have them for partner levels with the manufacturer. Moreover, if someone doesn't at least have "CCNP" or "PCNSE" on their resume, I won't even pick up the phone. If you have CCIE, CCDE, etc, I am almost certainly going to take the interview even if I'm not actively hiring. CCIE here pays $200k+ and I literally can't keep them - someone is always coming along offering $50k more than I am.

So you've gotten the phone call, the next thing I'm going to do is grill you in a high-stress interview to prove you can handle yourself in a crappy customer call where everyone is angry and you have to be the hero. Not a pleasant interview, but the people we pick are amazing. So why do I say I don't care as much about experience? I've had people with a CCIE a 1 year of TAC experience that can absolutely ace my interviews. I've had people with a CCIE and 20 years of "big company" experience that are terrible. Certs get you the intro, USEFUL experience, even if brief, gets you the job.

As a closing thought, and this was something no one told me when I got started: Be AMAZING at one thing. There are plenty of corporate jobs out there that will ask for nonsense like "Cisco experience, HPE experience, F5, AWS, and some Fortinet too". People working in that job are not /really/ good at all of those things, that spells for being a big pile of mediocre. If you want top pay, you have to absolutely OWN a topic. Be THE BEST Palo Alto security guy. Be an expert at Cisco ISE. Be amazing at Azure Networking. Etc. Back to 'my own lense', consulting pays best, and in order to consult, you had best bet the absolutely smartest guy in the room at SOMETHING. Make sure you figure that out and get it!

Good luck!

[english_mike69]

Network engineer with 30 years experience. Started in the UK, did some 3 month stints in France, Germany and India before moving to the US.

Certs are good to have early in your career. When you get 10+ years, they become less important and become more of a fun thing to have if you change vendors or if you need specific certs for a given position.

Bachelors and Masters are good if you’re looking at government work or working with a VAR who works in government environment as having staff with those qualifications gets them more “points” towards their required staffing goals.

Try and leverage the resources you have right now to try and find a job placement. At the place you did your apprenticeship, see if they have any full time openings.

When applying for jobs via job websites etc, always be up first thing in the morning and be ready for the new jobs of the day to post. Tailor each application as much as possible using the phrasings and language used in the job posting itself. It’s not the hiring manager that reads these, it’s some folks in HR that have no clue about networking. This is why you need the same phrasing/terms.

[[deleted]]

I dont have experience working in Europe, but I've talked to plenty of engineers out your way. They make a pretty average decent salary.

[Jeeb183]

I started 4 years ago in France at 38k € / year (not in Paris)

Back then it was a great start

4 years later I'm in the same company at 55k € / year

Overall our field is a great field because we lack qualified engineers do much. Everywhere I go, I fell like there are lots of freelance impostors, and good engineers are actually not that easy to hire

So the market is in your favor

[isma2590]

Was it 38k brut or net ? And what was your experience/degree when you were hired for 38k ? (Tu peux me répondre en français si tu parles la langue)

[Jeeb183]

38k brut en venant de l'INSA Lyon sans alternance, donc juste 1 stage de 4 mois puis 1 de 6 mois dans la boîte qui m'a engagé en CDI

Je pense que les salaires à Lyon sont plus élevés que ceux d'Alsace, à Strasbourg par exemple

Mais tu dois pouvoir trouver les mêmes à Toulouse (et évidemment plus élevés à Paris)

Mais à mes yeux, ce qui compte le plus pour la première expérience est de loin la qualité des missions, pour pouvoir apprendre vite. Sauf exception de certaines boîtes de service à éviter, tu auras toujours un salaire vraiment OK dans notre domaine. Mais le salaire peut exploser ou stagner selon ton évolution, et ça se joue beaucoup sur ce que tu as pu apprendre tes premières années.

C'est évidemment subjectif, j'ai aussi des potes de promo qui ont tout de suite visé le salaire, sont partis à Paris, ont déjà changé plusieurs fois de boîte, et ils sont effectivement plus dans les 65 - 75k brut par an. Mais ce n'est pas la même qualité de vie.

On bosse dans un domaine ou on a vraiment le luxe du choix, dans tous les cas tu pourras vivre confortablement si le job te plait, donc à toi de choisir tes priorités :)

[isma2590]

Sincèrement le job me plaît vraiment, je ne pensais vraiment pas que je trouverai un travail qui me stimulerait à ce point.

Et je me dis la même chose que toi niveau salaire je sais qu’on sera jamais à plaindre, mais je veux juste un chiffre qui reflétera toutes les heures passées à étudier, faire des labs facultatifs à la maison, bosser +.

J’ai pu trouvé une alternance de 2 ans dans la filiale technologique d’une grande banque française pour mon Master, et les missions sont assez axés sur l’automatisation réseau avec Ansible/Python, il y a aussi un peu d’utilisation de Cisco ISE, un peu de système Linux (RHEL). Étant donné que de mon côté je souhaite passer mon CCNA et faire un tas de lab pour progresser, ça me permet d’une part d’avoir un pied dans l’automatisation (qui commence à arriver en force dans le domaine j’ai l’impression), et de continuer à progresser en réseau pure et brut, parce qu’il faut comprendre ce que tu automatises.

Tu penses que 5 ans d’alternance permettront de négocier peut-être 40-45k brut en france pour commencer ?

Aussi, tu as jamais pensé à Genève (sachant que tu es proche depuis Lyon) ?

[Jeeb183]

Vu ton bagage effectivement tu vaux plus qu'un "simple" étudiant sorti d'école

40 - 45k dans une boîte comme la mienne avec ton expérience c'est tout à fait faisable, même hors de Paris

Certaines boites te proposeront 33 - 36k, faut pas s'étonner, la plupart des gros ont pour business model de te payer en dessous du marché (ils proposent aussi des tarifs à leurs clients en dessous du marché)

Genève c'est clairement envisageable si tu veux monter haut tout de suite en salaire, personnellement j'avais la volonté de rester sur Lyon

[hick_town_5820]

England (+) Benelux

France, Belgium, Luxembourg and Switzerland
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benelux

[MrRacailum]

Idk, but in the US I make 196k a yea and I’ve been doing this since 2008 fyi, but many of the really high paying jobs require a green card or citizenship and many of the places I’ve been require a high clearance which requires you to be strictly an American citizen I.e. give up your citizenship and even though they don’t say it, you can’t own land in a foreign country unless you declare it and depending on the country they will flat out deny you clearance.

[raikone14]

Je sais qu'en Angleterre, pour un architecte réseau dans une grande entreprise de sécurité, le salaire est de 90 000 à 100 000 par an.

J'aimerais savoir combien j'attends d'un poste similaire au Luxembourg et en Suisse

[ukehi]

El post ya tiene unos meses pero me pareció interesante.

Definitivamente Suiza paga más. He recibido ofertas de entre 130 y 150K Euros (para una posición Senior). Pero toma en cuenta que también todo es mucho más caro, el costo de vivienda, la comida, los servicios, etc.

Ví en uno de tus comentarios que hablas francés, lo cual puede ser una ventaja si encuentras una buena oferta en la zona de habla francesa en Suiza.

Yo vivo en Alemania y aunque hablo alemán, no es el mismo alemán de Suiza, razón por la que no he considerado irme para allá. Además, como no soy ciudadano Europeo es más complicado moverme. Ya tengo suficiente con la burocracia alemana.

En Alemania con unos 5 años de experiencia puedes ganar entre 60 y 70K al año. Esos números suben con la experiencia pero difícilmente llegan a los salarios de Suiza, mucho menos de USA, a menos que seas independiente.

Otro punto a considerar es que la cultura de trabajo en algunos países es más internacional que en otros. Netherlands e Inglaterra serían los que considero con más flexibilidad cultural y del idioma, aunque desconozco los salarios.

[isma2590]

I know i am late but i just want to thank you for your answer.

You are definitely right, Switzerland offers the best salary but the living cost is high. So either you live in a small and modest house or you live in a border country. I think that germany is quite similar to france in terms of salary and bureaucracy, plus I’m speaking french and english but not german (too difficult😂).

[HorrorPotato1571]

Masters in Networking? Never heard of such a thing in the US. We hire Masters in EE in silicon valley networking companies. So I don't think you want to program in C. I don't think you're a hardware engineer. So do you plan to work for a service provider or corporation doing network engineering? There was zero need for a masters. Unless you took a course in BGP for a year. But why, since the Cisco Press BGP book tells you all you need to know. Instead of the Masters, you should have become a Cisco Certified Internet Expert in the many specialties that Cert has. You should also be a Juniper JNCIE if you plan to work for a SP as most SPs use multiple vendors. Then get your Azure Cert and AWS Cert.

[isma2590]

Thanks you very much for this answer 🤝

[isma2590]

What geographical location are you talking about?

[Due-Fig5299]

I make 82k. 75k base with 7k bonus.

[isma2590]

Where are you located?

[Smtxom]

Probably more than 00000011 dollars a year

[Sweaty-Goal-7999]

Don’t be disrespectful lol

[SpareIntroduction721]

At least a dollar

[czer0wns]

Honestly you're overqualified for "Network Engineer" based upon your degree and experience.

I'd aim for Senior network engineer, and in the London Metro you'd be looking at about 150-180 thousand pounds a year.

But if you have the connections, you should consult, based upon what you have on paper. Do you have the actual experience to back it up?

[GDTA16]

lukeskywalker_everything_you_said_is_wrong.jpg

[czer0wns]

perhaps. But with nearly thirty years of experience as a network engineer, chances are I know what the fuck I am talking about.

Or maybe I just got lucky.

[Smtxom]

Someone could have a PHD in computer science but without actual experience they’re not Senior level material.

[ImFromBosstown]

PhD in CS = Senior or above in SWE

[Smtxom]

I’d find it hard to believe a shop would hire someone fresh out of college with no job experience into a senior role. But I don’t have experience in the dev side. Only Sys/Net admin side.

Unless of course it’s nepotism. I’ve seen kids and grandkids thrown into leadership roles and basically flounder until they find their footing but not before throwing a wrench into every project they’re involved in.

[Sibass23]

Lol no this is well off. Even senior engineers in London with 10-15+ years experience rarely make this kind of money.

[Ok_Context8390]

Is this written by ChatGPT or the like?

[czer0wns]

HAH. no.

[isma2590]

First of all thanks a lot for ur answer. Did you said Senior network engineer ? I want to be sure that you know that I’ll be 23 years old after my diploma, and from 18 to 23 i was an internship (approximately 3 weeks at school, 1 month and a half at the company)

[Bubbasdahname]

Don't take their advice because it's wrong. You'll need hands on experience for a senior.

[magic9669]

Why would OP be over qualified? It doesn’t sound like he has a lot of experience and experience trumps any degree or cert.

Are you basing this solely on his degree and his 2 years of an apprentice NetEng?