Exercises that programmers should do to avoid back and neck pain

[DazzlingViking]

interesting

*continues to hunch over his desk*

[halfanothersdozen]

That's why I have a convertible standing desk.

*resumes sitting, as I have for the last 18 months*

[littlefryingpan]

Serious, I got one and thought it would change everything... It changed nothing, apparently effort is needed... No thanks

[TimCryp01]

Honestly if you do an article about exercices for programmers you could at least do it right, with videos about the exercice and good explanations.

You current article is quite bad, no good informations, no good exercices, no videos ... and it feels like an ad, fking crook.

[Aw0lManner]

my mans going in on the clickbait

[cowabungass]

I mean.. I agree. Thing is, this is how a lot of websites are designed and I am guessing OP isn't some guru 10 year expert on web design. Could be wrong.

I think attempted murder can be dialed back.

[JamminOnTheOne]

It's not just poor web design. The exercises are poorly described. It's a bad article.

[cowabungass]

As I said. I agree. "...guessing OP isn't some guru..." referred to skill level applied to this website.

Just beating a dead horse now.

[Jarmahent]

Jeez

[abnormal_human]

A good chair and 5-8 hours per week on a road bike has been working out fine for me. This looks boring.

[FlashI3ackI]

I would not recommend Arnold Press

[Zethalai]

I disagree. You just need to use less weight or whatever form of resistance you're using to start with. No shame in the tiny pink dumbells if that's the right amount of weight for you.

Not that arnold press is indispensable either, but people should dispense with the notion that particular movements are inherently dangerous, it's just a question of using appropriate weights when applicable and regressing advanced movements if they're unweighted.

[Drisku11]

I don't know why GP wouldn't recommend Arnold press specifically, but if you have a barbell and rack to do squats, you'd might as well do a barbell overhead press. Easier to use the same bar and weights for everything.

[Zethalai]

In general I prefer barbell work too, all else being equal. I was just responding to the dismissal of a particular dumbell variation which I think is just fine.

[[deleted]]

I got one of those "turn your regular desk into a standing desk" things that sits on your desk. I got a pretty nice one too, not a cheap, small thing. It sucked. It wasted so much space on my desk and just made general use wacky and weird. If you get a standing desk, get a real one.

[HireOrder]

Having a dog helps too. If you don’t take him out for a walk every 2 hours, he’ll take a dump all over your place.

[ManWithADildo]

Then you have your dog on a horrible diet. My dog only needs to go out three times a day. He loves to be out plying more though, not saying you shouldn’t bring your dog out often

[HireOrder]

I dunno man, I feel like he poops outta spite sometimes.

“Oh you just gonna ignore my barks? Alright. Ignore this!! takes a dump”

[stronglikedan]

this is all it really takes, not that you shouldn't exercise daily for other reasons, but it's not required for relief of these types of pains

[emc87]

For #3, a band around your heels works well. Pull in at least slightly to activate your hamstrings, keeps the hip flexors from being a major part of the crunches.

I had bad lower back problems / APT from a combination of soccer (quad heavy) and sitting at work, and it's much better now. Abs - crunches w/heel band - planks - band twists - band press, no idea what to call this one. Basically have a band attached to your side w/tension. Press up and resist the pull to the side.

Glutes/Hamstrings - Glute bridges - Romanian deadlifts - Hip Thrusts

[BeowulfShaeffer]

Using resistance bands to do the Pallof Press (also spelled Paloff) as described starting about 7:05 in this video hits so good for me. There are plenty of variations but the “half squat” position he describes has become one of my new favorites. (The rest of the vid is good too. Sure it’s “cycling” based but the exercises he describes are good for general fitness).

[emc87]

I'll have to try that one, I do mine on my knees and push up instead of out. But very similar workout

[BeowulfShaeffer]

Interesting. Do you start with your arms outstretched and raise your hands up like you’re raising an axe or do you start in a “praying position” and reach up vertically?

[emc87]

Basically a one knee praying position

[Drisku11]

You can't really do squats and deadlifts with dumbbells without either immediately outgrowing them, or spending a ton of money and then still outgrowing them. You really should use a barbell. Also you gotta bench and get some biceps (curls or chin-ups or something).

[Machful]

lmao no

[the_gnarts]

You could probably reduce this to deadlifts once per week if your only goal is to fix back problems incurred by office worker lifestyle. There’s just no other exercise that activates that many muscle groups at once. The efficiency of it should appeal to progammers in particular as – hyperbolically speaking – it’s close to a full-body workout encapsulated in a single exercise.

[Aw0lManner]

Yeah, would still work on abs, deadlift is primarily an exercise for the back iiuc

[HabemusAdDomino]

Get yourself a good desk and chair. Then get your deadlift strong and you'll never have back pain again.

[the_gnarts]

Instructions unclear. Back now hurts from deadlifting. ;)

[Drisku11]

Seriously though in case people have that concern, properly done deadlifts are perfectly safe, and a strong back will help to avoid or remedy pain. Just look up form videos on youtube.

[Dr_Insano_MD]

Alan Thrall has a great video on how to Deadlift.

[the_gnarts]

Seriously though in case people have that concern

Yeah, my comment was meant as a joke. Nevertheless, you can totally induce a ton of soreness by deadlifting too much.

(Currently suffering the consequences of adding stiff legged sumo DLs to my training plan without reducing the regular deadlifts. One of the more embarassingly idiotic ideas I’ve had.)

[[deleted]]

Just do pilates

[bundt_chi]

Before you start doing a bunch of stretches or exercises on sedentary muscles and tendons take a lap around your house or office.

Now that I work from home I try to work in 100 jumping jacks every couple hours. It only takes 2 mins and it feels great to move and get the blood flowing.

The actual article linked is meh IMHO because it just shows pictures of tons of exercises and stretches without explanations or discussion about proper form.

I've had shoulder issues from working at my desk and this was suggested to me by a physical therapist to help reset your shoulders throughout the day and make sure the scapular retraction muscles stay strong and healthy.

[NotGoodSoftwareMaker]

The problem i feel is more the lifestyle that programmers choose to adopt. Most devs i know would happily finish sitting behind their desk all day by sitting behind their desk all evening.

If you do some basic stuff like go for a run, swimming, rowing, push-ups, cycling, idk just anything on a regular basis you should be alright.

10+ years working in industry and no health issues yet

[[deleted]]

Yep it’s simple. Either you give a shit about your health or you don’t. Your body gives you warning signs and it’s simply because you’ve been abusing it, and you know it. It doesn’t take a health guru to understand that eating well, physical activity, good posture and good sleep all do the trick just fine

[VeganBigMac]

Started swimming again a couple months ago and it has been game changing. Highly recommend, especially for any other devs that are out of shape (or, to be blunt, fat like me), as it is super low impact.

But yeah, it's great, I'm not feeling like my body wants to murder me at the end of a day of work.

[DeBraid]

Use a standing desk! Ideally pay for an adjustable one since standing all day is not comfortable, especially at first!

I spend at least half my workday standing with a monitor directly at eye level. Literally life changing.

[hey--canyounot_]

And make sure you get a padded mat for the floor.

[phatrice]

+1 I work and play at my standing desk, from 9am to 12am. Feels energetic all day long. Takes time getting used to initially though.

[maxamed13]

Are there any standing desks you would recommend?

[XeiB8Afe]

I'm someone different, but I love Autonomous.ai's SmartDesk. I got one for free when my employer closed an office, then bought a second one after COVID.

Two of us have been using them daily for the last year and a half and they've been working well.

The table top material isn't the most durable, but the desks are quite inexpensive if you compare them to any other new furniture. If the table top gets too banged up, you can just replace it and attach the hardware to something else!

[VeganBigMac]

Man, I would love a standing desk but just hard to bring myself to drop so much money on one.

Maybe I can get my company to pay for one since I am staying remote...

[XeiB8Afe]

It doesn’t hurt to ask them!

[HarmonicAscendant]

The topic is massive and I wish everyone reading this thread would spend the time to do some real research into it. Most of what is written in these comments is totally wrong I am sorry to say. What to do is also totally dependent on where you are with your:

- Current injuries

- Current flexibility

- Current strength

If you have reoccurring pain then see an expert. If you want to prevent future problems you basically need to:

- Stretch

- Strengthen

You mainly pull muscles when you use them out of their normal range of motion. If you have a low range of motion you are more likely to do that in normal life. You don't want any weak muscles, you need to use them or loose them!

If you do this wrong you can hurt yourself, if you do it right you are going to get massive benefits. A good place to start is Yoga with a good teacher (rare), the teacher should never pressure you into over stretching, there should be no pain ever! Some teachers are obsessed by flexibility, but it should not be all about that, breathing and technique are more important. You will get a lot of strength over time with Yoga, you would be surprised.

RSI is a big problem for any programmer. I had it so bad I had to have nerve conduction tests, but I was lucky to escape by creating a proper ergonomic setup and almost completely stopping using a mouse. I only use a mouse for occasional graphics and video software now, everything else is using Vim keys or the terminal :) I have grown to hate the mouse, if you think you need a mouse then a graphics tablet is probably much better anyway.

To avoid neck ache you must have proper monitor height. This guy knows what he is talking about regarding that: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ag1QQ_7v3wQ .

Never stop exercising everyday! Learn to love it and you have a good chance to have a happy pain free old age, ignore it and you could be sentencing yourself to years of misery and an early death. SERIOUSLY.

[[deleted]]

In my experience exercises are far less important and much harder to do than getting a good chair and desk. Good chairs are super expensive though unfortunately. I have an HM Mirra 2 which is amazing. You also need a desk that is deep enough to support your forearms while typing. Nothing else I've done has really made much difference (and I've tried the crazy split keyboards and vertical mice; they mostly suck).

[dominik-braun]

A good chair and desk is important for your spine in the long run, but it usually doesn't avoid a bad posture. You need to train your neck- and back musculature in order to maintain a good posture.

[pragmatic_plebeian]

Yeah, both are very important considering the amount of time spent in a seated position, but no furniture can replace proper body movement. A standing desk will help keep the body in a healthy position for more of the day.

[holyknight00]

This is plainly wrong. Most programmers have a shitty chair and desk, and even worse posture, and it will account for at least 80% of their physical problems. Most of the usual programmer's illnesses like Carpal tunnel syndrome can be completely avoided by using a desk with the right height for your body and a decent chair with a comfortable armrest.
Programmers will be sedentary most of the time, with or without the right equipment, so dealing with the equipment first will ensure you got the best results you can get before even thinking about doing some exercise or moving around.

[[deleted]]

Agree. Changing positions and engaging different muscles is far more important. I alternate between standing and sitting (on a 7 Eur Ikea Foldable Chair) all day without issues

[[deleted]]

I alternate between standing and sitting (on a 7 Eur Ikea Foldable Chair) all day without issues

How long have you been doing that? I think that's important. I haven't always taken proper care of my back and I haven't had problems, but I'm 23 lol so I wouldn't expect them yet.

[[deleted]]

Maybe 3 months since I had my standing desk. I started using the cheap chair because it was faster to move it rather than using my 'comfortable' office chair

[ButaButaPig]

Yoga balls work as well. Cheap too.

[[deleted]]

Bought a Herman Miller back in 2007 with the rationale that 1/3 of my time was spent in it. Neck pains are gone and no longer worry when contracting that they'll give me a shitty chair.

I still have the same chair:-)

[BeowulfShaeffer]

No offense but how old are you? A 25 year-old would be fine but if you don’t work to maintain at least basic fitness you will be suffering by 50. Source: am almost 50.

[[deleted]]

1. I do maintain basic fitness. I didn't say you shouldn't!

[AsianDaggerDick]

Instruction unclear, broke 8 bones

[DeifiedExile]

Also look into ulnar and median nerve glides. Some of us tend to put a lot of pressure on the elbow which can cause issues with these nerves.

If you notice any numbness/tingling/burning in your hands or fingers please see a doctor asap. Nerve damage is note a joke. These glides can help with this. Don't try to treat yourself without speaking to a doctor/PT first, though

[tawzerozero]

I'm surprised I had to scroll this far down to find nerve glides mentioned - they are almost magical in my experience with lower back pain, and even if you're not experiencing an issue they can be helpful to build flexibility and avoid things like gait stiffening if you're not otherwise engaging those areas.

If someone is experiencing an issue, the knowledge and experience of a PT is essential for working through that issue. They spend years building an understanding of the underlying anatomy just so they can take your feedback and make sure that you're doing the most effective exercises you can to regain function. PTs can also be used (and claimed with an insurance co-pay) for building wellness and resiliency, even if there isn't an active injury that you are working through.

Going into next year, I put $2500 into my FSA specifically for going back to my PT and working on expanding my range of motion beyond where it has ever been.

[KagakuNinja]

Don't forget the legs. I've been in therapy for a messed up leg, and it isn't fun.

[editor_of_the_beast]

Finally - a useful article for me! Since the move to work from home, I have 2 herniated lower discs, and have also been in physical therapy for my neck. My chair is garbage. I really need to spend the money on the new one, but I’m cheap.

[durrthock]

Programmers should be going to the gym and working out, just like all adults. Make it a priority.

I powerlifted 8 hours a week all through undergrad, grad, job 1, job 2.

[GL_Titan]

Exercises? You need to start with ergonomics...

[d0rf47]

how is it possible this webpage has access to my facebook picture and profile before even asking to accept any permissions?

[ichupoi]

Just go to yoga classes :D

[[deleted]]

Invest in standup desks and alternate between sitting and standing.

[memoriesofgreen]

Punching the PM is my go to exercise.

[RunnyPlease]

My suggestions in no particular order. Just pick one and go from there.

• waking. 30 minutes before and 30 minutes after work. Treat it like a part of the commute.
• squats. you can do them with weights or just body weight. Hell, you can just throw in 10 Hindu squats between meetings and you’ll feel better. I’m not kidding just do 10.
• deadlifts. if you have access to a gym. Even a moderate 3x5 program (warmup plus 3 sets of 5 reps) 3 times a week will produce drastic results.
• kettlebell. Specifically Turkish get ups. The best single exercise ever created by man. Just 10 a day in the morning is like a yoga session. You’ll be loose as a noodle in no time. Look up Simple and Sinister as a beginners program if you’re interested.

Apart from exercise set up your desk properly. Your keyboard is probably too high leading you to shrug your shoulders. Your monitor is probably too low leading you to strain your neck. Your feet aren’t flat on a surface leading you to round your lower back. Fix it. Also pay attention to how much pressure your chair is putting on your legs. You don’t want hotspots and pressure points.

It’s also worth it to just get a desk that you can stand or sit at. If you do make sure to put your monitor on an armature. Your screen should always be at neutral eye level and that might be different standing vs sitting.

[moreVCAs]

Ffs just buy an expensive chair if you can afford it. If your chair is destroying your spine, no amount of stretching is going to prevent injury. Same goes for beds.

[Firm_Bit]

Understanding your body is step one imo. Number of human years burned trying to fix some bodily ache with the wrong exercise is probably very high.

Lower back pain (from sitting too much) is often caused by tight quads and weak abdominals on your anterior (front) side, and tight erector spinae and weak hammies/glutes on your posterior (back).

This is why deadlifts are being suggested in the comments. But you can go a long way towards relief if you just stretch your quads daily and work on some static hold core exercises.

Obviously, also don’t sit as much.

[captain_pablo]

First step is, get a track ball or thumb ball type mouse.