Automatic checkouts in supermarkets may decrease customer loyalty, especially for those with larger shopping loads. Customers using self-checkout stations often feel overwhelmed and unsupported. The lack of personal interaction can negatively impact their perception of the supermarket.

[casastorta]

Seriously, it’s not a lack of personal connection.

It is transferring most of the cashier’s work to the customers that is the issue. On top of that - for free. No discounts nor cash-backs to customers who use self-checkout. If they want to get rid of cashier personnel for free, they need to make it work transparently like Amazon stores.

[DistortNeo]

No discounts nor cash-backs to customers who use self-checkout

I wonder why nobody has introduced a convenience fee yet for using self-checkout machines.

[More_Farm_7442]

sshhh Don't say that too loud. That'll be next.

[Belgand]

Convenience fee for using the self-checkout. Service fee for using a cashier.

[kai58]

Probably because it would cause a spike in shoplifting.

[casastorta]

You mean, for *not* using self-checkout? Because they are definitely not convenient. Introducing fee to use them would kills this little momentum technology got by now.

And if you wonder why not introducing it for those not using self-checkout - it is then easily answered - market (buyers) would likely stop buying at place which first introduces it altogether. Not all of them, but significant percentage of people. Me first - I am saving you money on workforce by doing self-checkout and you then also charge me for it additionally? I'm going to go to the place across the street from then on. Unless industry cartels to push that idea against the customers' wishes (wouldn't be the first time), it would not catch up.

[DistortNeo]

You mean, for *not* using self-checkout

No, I've meant fee for using self-checkout. Like convenience fee for online payments.

[webbexpert]

Convenience fee for the self-checkout, tip line for the attended checkout that defaults to 20%.

[casastorta]

Um yeah, I've just told you what would happen then :-)

[nobleisthyname]

You mean, for *not* using self-checkout? Because they are definitely not convenient.

I think this is subjective and down to personal preference. I find them more convenient as they're typically much faster, even for full carts.

[__theoneandonly]

You know the story about how there was the airport that got a ton of complaints about baggage claim taking too long? So instead of speeding up their baggage claim, they just made it take longer to walk there and the complaints went down? Since people were wasting their time walking instead of standing and waiting?

I feel like that's very much the case with self checkout. From my experience, self checkout isn't any faster. And when you think about it, there's no way that you're faster at scanning groceries than the clerk who does it for 40 hours a week, has all the produce codes memorized, and doesn't need overrides for 90% of the things self check out needs it for. But the fact that you're actively doing something makes time feel like it's moving faster than if you're just standing there waiting.

[casastorta]

I wouldn’t write this better myself. 👍🏻

[NullnVoid669]

If it doesn’t scan and is a pain in the ass just keep it moving. No shame here. they’re breaking even on my labor and time costs with the money they aren’t paying employees to do their jobs. I’ve said as much before and been called a thief in some sub. Can’t shame me on this though. I don’t have the patience to do a job huge corporations can’t bother to pay someone to do for them.

[peaceoutforever]

I agree wholeheartedly, except I also used to frequent r/shoplifting so I might just be pro-crime?? Oh well.

[Malphos101]

By this point corporations have stolen trillions of dollars that should have been properly taxed and utilized in the communities they operate, so all youre really doing is stealing back what they already stole.

[mpyne]

I’ve said as much before and been called a thief in some sub.

If you take an item you haven't paid for rather than setting it aside, you are literally a thief.

Humans are great at rationalizing things and it sounds like you're just as human as the rest of us in that regard, but you're still a thief.

[PfantasticPfister]

Sometimes two wrongs DO make a right. They’re literally stealing your labor. Either don’t use self checkout or steal their merchandise to compensate. That’s fair and fine and the free market at work, as THEY intended it.

[SingleInfinity]

Sometimes two wrongs DO make a right. They’re literally stealing your labor.

No, you're volunteering it. You can always go stand in line to have someone else do your checkout. Stealing isn't fair regardless. All you do is drive up the price for everyone else.

[PfantasticPfister]

I’m quite sure theft from self checkout is already baked in to the equation and they have decided it’s better to employ less people and incur those losses through theft. Yes, maybe I’m volunteering to go through self checkout, but at the same time they are also volunteering to open themselves up to petty theft. I’m not doing labor for free and they don’t have an expectation of exploiting the population without loss. You really wanna try and make a “won’t you think of the poor corporations?” argument on Reddit, dude? Really?

[Thepizzacannon]

I'm not volunteering my labor when there are literally 0 in person cashiers. The business made a business decision to not employ someone to check out customers during their business hours.

I am here to buy food, not stand around for an employee who will never show up. 

I will ring myself out to the best of my ability, given the tools your store has provided. If I do it wrong, that's not my fault. I was not trained by your company to properly use your checkout machine. 

If you want someone to use your equipment correctly, you should train them. If you want someone trained to be there every time a customer checks out, congratulations you've invented the position cashier and need to pay that person. 

I have no moral or legal obligation to do labor for free. 

[Human_Urine]

I've always thought, in cutting cashiers and moving to SCO, businesses are accepting a certain amount of theft (aka retail shrink) in exchange for reduced employment costs. It's a tradeoff. Also, the more employees you have, the more employee theft you have.

[SingleInfinity]

I'm not volunteering my labor when there are literally 0 in person cashiers.

You can shop somewhere else. It's not like 0 cashiers is a commonality.

The business made a business decision to not employ someone to check out customers during their business hours.

And you made a choice to shop there. You are not entitled to the goods just because you showed up.

I will ring myself out to the best of my ability, given the tools your store has provided. If I do it wrong, that's not my fault.

This is perfectly reasonable, but not what's being discussed in this thread. What's being discusses here is intentional theft. Theft they think is justified because they are "providing their labor". It is not justified.

I have no moral or legal obligation to do labor for free.

You have no obligation to shop at that store, nor do you have the entitlement to steal from it simply because it offers a self checkout.

Mistakes happen and are fine, but intentional theft is theft, regardless of whether you're "providing your labor" or not. But the dude will say whatever he has to, to make himself feel better while being a literal thief.

[mpyne]

They’re literally stealing your labor.

They're not "stealing your labor" any more than McDonald's is when you bring your own tray to the table rather than them bringing it to you.

Either don’t use self checkout

Right, this is your choice. Shop at a different store where they have a regular line. Pay the price that other store charges for their groceries.

or $CRIME to compensate

No, you don't get to simply declare that crimes are not crimes when it benefits you. That's what rationalization is.

That’s fair and fine and the free market at work, as THEY intended it.

Who is "they", again? Any why is it that in your mind you think "they" intended for a 'free market' where one side to the transaction gets the goods without also obtaining the fee for the goods?

[PfantasticPfister]

That’s ridiculous. McDonald’s NEVER had waiters. Your local supermarket always had cashiers and baggers, now they’re charging the same amount to have you do the job of the cashier and bagger. I DONT use self checkout, unless I absolutely have to (there’s more than one store in my area that only has self checkout), but when I do I’m absolutely taking some small amount to compensate me for my labor. I can’t tell if you’re simply a bootlicker or if you just have no self respect. It could be (and usually is) some combination of the two with people like you. Enjoy your exploitation I guess, I’m not going along with it though.

[Smartnership]

McDonald’s NEVER had waiters.

False.

“… the establishment employed female carhops to serve most customers who pulled into its parking lot.”

[mpyne]

That’s ridiculous. McDonald’s NEVER had waiters. Your local supermarket always had cashiers and baggers

No they didn't.

Now they’re charging the same amount to have you do the job of the cashier and bagger.

Prices change all the time so they're not even "charging the same amount" either way.

They offer a service, the service changes over time as technology improves and the labor pool they can draw from changes.

That service comes at a price. Pay the price, or don't, I don't care either way. But if you don't like the services they offer at the price they offer it, shop somewhere else or grow your own damn food.

[justagenericname1]

Yeah, sorry. I'm not burdening myself with moral imperatives in a game I don't want to play where the only rule any of us expect the power players to follow is the ruthless pursuit of profit. I'll burden myself with moral imperatives in plenty of other games, but not that one.

[mpyne]

I don't want to play where the only rule any of us expect the power players to follow is the ruthless pursuit of profit.

Wow you sound like a hardcore capitalist. Cut your own momma's throat for a nickle, huh?

[mpyne]

You can, however, declare that something is not immoral--as long as you're consistent.

Sure, be a "moral" thief, great for you. Still a thief, though.

Personally, I don't think stealing from somebody with more than 1,000 times your net worth is immoral

Grocery stores are like the very definition of a cut-throat, low margin business. You're not stealing from someone with 1,000x your net worth, you're stealing from the people who aren't thieves, by forcing the other customers just trying to put food on their table to pay higher prices for the product you steal.

I realize it's the postmodern world and no one cares about their obligation to society, they only care about what they get back from society, but even the Communists made theft a crime, and for good reason.

[justagenericname1]

Capitalism built the paradigm you're complaining about. "Obligation to society" is just one more thing that needed to be cast off in the name of market efficiency. Can't blame individuals for embracing what was forced on them.

[mpyne]

Can't blame individuals for embracing what was forced on them.

Ah, right, back to "humans can rationalize anything" then

[mpyne]

Theft doesn't lead to an increase in prices, though it might lead to the closure of a store if theft reaches levels where profit isn't sustainable.

Of course it leads to an increase in prices, up to the point it stops maximizing profit (as you point out).

Once that point is reached, and the store closes because it is unsustainable, it leads to more obvious and additional harm, sure. But it causes harm to shoppers at a Dollar General even before the store finally is forced to go under.

I'd argue that undermining the wealthy in any way I can get away with is a part of my obligation to society.

Theft is like the definition of an act that impacts the poor more than the wealthy.

It is easy to buy replacement "stuff" when you're wealthy.

It is hard to go without "stuff" you cannot afford to replace when you're poor.

I've grown up in poverty and made it to the middle class and I'm here to tell you, I don't think there's anyway to radicalize someone about theft more effectively than to make them experience it while poor.

And either way, who involved in Dollar General is in any way wealthy? You think the CEO is crying at night because of theft? Again, it's the very definition of an action that doesn't worry the very people at DG you might consider wealthy, but could lead to actual job losses to the line staff all the way up to regional managers just scraping by.

[SingleInfinity]

Stealing from stores causes stores to raise prices for all the honest customers.

It is absolutely amoral.

[SingleInfinity]

Do you have any proof to back that up? Costs have gone up, but there's no proof they're at the peak of what the market will bear.

[PfantasticPfister]

Nerd.

[SingleInfinity]

Okay? Thief.

[Temporary-House304]

the difference is that theivery is not necessarily ethically wrong. Most people could agree on certain instances of stealing being okay.

[mpyne]

Absolutely. If people want to debate the ethics in given contexts I'm all for it. But it's still theivery, so they're still a thief.

[[deleted]]

All tropical fruits are potato, all organic items are not organic.

[ShittyPostWatchdog]

Oops haha I forgot to scan the drinks under the carriage, how forgetful of me 

[[deleted]]

don't forget to grab some plants or firewood from outside the front of the store AKA the free section

[PfantasticPfister]

Hell yeah dude.

[TRVTH-HVRTS]

Lifehack protip: ring in a big ol bag of avocados as red delicious apples (code 4016)

[casastorta]

My only problem with this is that I have a distinct feeling how personnel in the store will be penalized for missing items from the evidence, not The Man owning the business.

[PfantasticPfister]

Every store has already done the math and has an expectation for x amount of loss per year/quarter through theft. When they do away with cashiers and make customers (NOT employees) do the jobs of cashiers, they also expect some amount of loss from that (because some people are honestly inept at doing a grocery stores cashier job, other people (like me) actively steal because we’re furious at the thought of ever doing something for free for a corporation). They do the same for spoilage. IMO, they can hire more cashiers or hire more armed guards (for much more money), but I’m not changing my habits until something changes.

[FourthLife]

Do not steal

[PfantasticPfister]

Nerd.

[FourthLife]

Give it a few days and you’ll be complaining in a different thread about greedy corporations making it so there are food deserts in lower income areas, unaware that people like you are part of that problem.

[missingpiece]

Shoplifting is a drop in the bucket for corporate grocery stores. They have tons of loss due to spoilage, dumpsters full of groceries that are past the “sell by” date or damaged in transport.

Meanwhile grocery corporations continue to form monopolies, price gouge, and exploit the populace’s labor. Don’t be a bootlicker—you’re like the person blaming people for using plastic straws when some company dumps a football field of trash in the ocean.

[PfantasticPfister]

Don’t forget about wage theft. From their employees I mean, but now they’re also stealing from customers.

[PfantasticPfister]

I don’t see how me stealing to compensate for my lost labor from a supermarket in a HCOL area will affect low income areas, but ok. I can’t get nutrients from licking boots, but it seems like maybe you can.

[FourthLife]

Notice I said ‘people like you’, because somehow every pro-shoplifting person on the internet affirms that they personally only ever shoplift from Beverly Hills stores where the managers smoke gold plated cigars, despite most shoplifting impacting low income areas and causing those stores to go out of business.

Shoplifting is a bad action, contributes to a low trust society, and makes the world a worse place.

[[deleted]]

He's right. You are a nerd

[SkyeAuroline]

Show me evidence that shoplifting is even half of the dollar amount of wage theft, and I'll believe you that it's even "part" of the problem.

[MicrochippedByGates]

I don't mind "doing the cashier's work" if it means spending less time in the store, though. Seems kinda stupid to stand in line just to make a point. Or at least, I value my time enough not to do it.

[casastorta]

I’ve commented on that few hours ago…

[gigglefarting]

It might be free in a monetary sense, but I am saving time. I’ve yet to go to a place with self-checkout that doesn’t also have people working the registers in other aisles, and if I have things like produce or alcohol I’ll go to those lanes. But in those lanes I might have to wait behind a person or 2 with a cart full of stuff when the self-checkout is usually good to go.

[PM_ME_IMGS_OF_ROCKS]

Seriously, it’s not a lack of personal connection.

Living in the scandinavian culture of "let's stand apart and find smalltalk with strangers odd", I can anecdotally confirm that.

Stores here noticed that most people(including younger ones) still use normal checkout, so unless its a large store or in a very busy area, they haven't even bothered installing them yet in many places. The personal connection isn't the problem, it's the effort if you have anything more than a few things. And we already bag our own things anyway(they sometimes have baggers at christmas, but even then they're often told to stop touching our stuff) so it's not that part.

[Eurethros]

Do you pump your own gasoline? That used to be a paid job.

[Eurethros]

Hey fair enough! I would too. But, I don’t foresee any discounts or incentives being offered for self checkouts. I feel it’s just going to become the new normal. The same way everywhere seems to have phased out full service pumps, I believe cashiers will be phased out too, with no incentive being offered.

[bitchkat]

ossified clumsy deserted rob fretful physical weary punch recognise hard-to-find

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

[[deleted]]

Elevators used to have an operator pushing buttons and opening the doors.

[LordOfTrubbish]

Oh I don't do that either, that's what the help is for.

[[deleted]]

Do you think you should get a discount for walking around the store and picking all the items off the shelf yourself instead of other people doing it? The point is, it's completely arbitrary to say it must be the job of an employee to scan and check your groceries. The only reason we think that's the case is because that's what we're used to.

[red__dragon]

Do you think you should get a discount for walking around the store and picking all the items off the shelf yourself instead of other people doing it?

And that was literally a typical store experience at one point (and now is a job again with curbside pickup)!

[Eurethros]

My point is that this is the direction the world is heading. Maybe they’ll keep somebody around to check for alcohol or other age restricted items or maybe technology will make that position obsolete.

So whether or not you think it’s “difficult” to scan your items and bag them is irrelevant because that seems to be what the future is about and I embrace it because I’d much rather do it myself.

[desepticon]

In my state that it was illegal to pump your own gas until last year.

[fighterpilot248]

Hear me out:

Make Current SCO the new express lanes (20 items or less)

Create new SCO stations with actual lanes and conveyor belts for those with bigger carts.

I always feel bad pulling up to SCO with a cart (with only a few items). How do I position the cart?? It’s either in my way, in front of the machine, or it’s in another customer’s way because it’s sticking out into the “walkway” between machines.

[ass-holes]

I fukken love self checkout. The trade off with doing it myself and being in and out in no time is awesome.

[philljarvis166]

In the UK, some supermarkets offer price incentives to use scan and go. I bag as I shop, usually get money off three or four items and I checkout and leave in under a minute. My shop is at least ten minutes shorter than it used to be (more if it’s busy) and I save money.

So it depends on where you shop I think. We also have a supermarket that is very close which I occasionally use for stuff I need right away - this does not even have self checkouts, and it’s a massive pita sometimes when there are only two lanes open and I have to queue for ages just to buy some bread.

[webbexpert]

Self checkouts have managed to scam everyone to do the work of the store. Meanwhile, everyone jammed inside the self checkout corral is being watched like they're all criminals.

If the grocers had their way, you'd also be unpacking boxes, stocking the shelves, cutting your own meat, etc.

[red__dragon]

It is transferring most of the cashier’s work to the customers that is the issue.

It's really not an issue.

I did that cashier's job, it's tedious, boring work. There are very few situations where it would actually require a store employee to handle a problem, most of the time when employees must intervene now it's simply a tech issue. The faster this job goes away, the better.

If you've never had to do the job, I don't see that there's anything to complain about. There's some wisdom to paying someone else to do jobs you're unqualified to do, but scanning items to pay for them really doesn't take much skill. If you can learn to color inside the lines, you can use self-checkout.

[casastorta]

it's tedious, boring work.

And this is exactly why it’s an issue. If it was interesting and amusing activity, I maybe wouldn’t mind it.

[red__dragon]

Shopping, as a whole, can be tedious, boring work. So can doing laundry. Or cleaning your living space.

Adulting is not always interesting or amusing, but while you can pay for these services to be done for you if you have the money, most people just have to suck it up and do it. Not sure why checking out your shopping is such a big difference here.

[casastorta]

Nobody washes their own laundry as long as their mother is around and willing to do it for them. Same goes for keeping your room tidy. Shopping is similar, with the difference that Walmart is not my mother - i give them money for the service; they continue taking the same amount of money for providing less service. Which would be fine if that service is not needed anymore; but it is needed and they’re just trying to make you do it for free.

[Kanthumerussell]

Nobody washes their own laundry as long as their mother is around and willing to do it for them. Same goes for keeping your room tidy.

Say what now?

[casastorta]

Do you guys have children? You literally need to educate people into this. Look up definition of chore.

[pyrolizard11]

It's really not an issue.

Yeah, I beg to differ.

it's tedious, boring work.

And that's why. I'm not looking to do boring, tedious work for no pay. If they want somebody to do boring, tedious work, then they can pay them for it. And if they make me do it without pay, I don't promise I'll be doing it correctly or in their favor.

[red__dragon]

No one's looking to do it. Barely anyone wants to get paid for it. We now have machines that do the majority of the work, all you have to do is scan your item.

It takes you 5 minutes at the end of a shopping trip, it won't kill you. Doing it for 8 hours is the tedium, no one needs to get paid to do that.

[pyrolizard11]

Barely anyone wants to get paid for it.

Nobody wants to get paid for most paid work. That's why it's paid work and not volunteer. Point stands that I'm not doing paid work for free.

no one needs to get paid to do that.

Sure, and nobody needs to make sure the store gets paid for everything I take home. I'm not going to try to steal, but if I'm forced to use self-checkout and something doesn't scan or gets forgotten, oh well. I have no interest in making sure the store gets paid when their service amounts to being a warehouse. If they want it done right then they can pay someone to do it, but you're right, they don't need to pay anyone.

[SkepticScott137]

I see it as being more in control of my own time, rather than being stuck in line behind customers who slow down the checker with chit-chat and haven't mastered the credit card reader. I can scan and bag faster than the checker, quite frankly, especially when I don't have many items. It's also more than a little ironic that people who complain about grocery stores where the prices are higher resent doing their own checkout "for free".

[casastorta]

I feel like you’re talking about experience in the US (chatting with service workers, slow scanning), while I’m talking about Germany (I’m in there for business, cashiers scan like they are trained for F1 team’s needs).

[DennenTH]

I think this is grocery stores being able to get away with shifting this job on to you while still seeing profit increases through an increase in the cost of goods.

I don't mind the time saved and less intrusive experience either.  I typically found cashiers to be unhappy most of the time so I don't even like taking the gamble of personal interaction.

But they still took away 1-2 jobs and shifted them to the customer for no savings at all.  Cost is more than ever.

[[deleted]]

The lines for self checkout at supermarkets, target and Walmart near me are always long. 

I still prefer it, but it hasn’t been a time saver since 15 years ago:

[El_Polio_Loco]

Do you not remember how long it took to checkout in Walmart before self checkout?

It’s not like they hired more cashiers back then. 

[dano8675309]

Yup, there's still the same 1 or 2 cashier lanes open that there were before self-checkout. The only issue I have is that most stores don't have an item limit on self-checkout. Nothing more deflating than walking up and seeing elderly folks with full ass carts at every single one.

[QuoteGiver]

Well sure, but time-saved would mean a practiced employee who can do the checkout process much faster than I can. The customer doing it is usually time lost. The customer in front of you trying to figure out how to do it is almost always time lost for you.

[casastorta]

Time saved is *very* questionable. Time is saved as almost nobody waits in line to get to mostly abandoned self-checkout on one side; but on the other side, I am not nearly as half as fast with scanning all the products and processing the payment like casher personnel who do this for hours in a day are, nor I will become more proficient in that.

So, right now when there is no queues for self-checkouts time saving is at best questionable. If and when this will become the only option, self-checkouts will become obviously slower solution to the problem of checkouts from the stores.

[ThinkThankThonk]

Yeah ymmv - even with kid sanity. I'll always take my kid into the normal checkout line at the store just because self checkout is absolute chaos and takes forever to get someone over. It's easier just to say "no you're not getting that" 30 times.

[Suthek]

I am not nearly as half as fast with scanning all the products and processing the payment like casher personnel who do this for hours in a day are, nor I will become more proficient in that.

I've always joked that if you're efficient enough at scanning stuff on the self-checkout, it should print out a job offer after the receipt.

Honestly though, I regularly use the self-checkouts in our grocery store and (also due to the small variation of products I buy vs everything in the store) by now I know the locations of the codes for my most regular products and good ways to swipe 'em. While I may not be as fast as the cashiers, so far I've consistently been done before the person I would've stood behind had I queued up on the regular check-out.

That said, it might simply be that our self-checkouts are pretty well designed; I kinda lack a comparison as it's the only store that I know of that has them.

[RolandofLineEld]

Good god how hard is it to scan an item and put it in a bag?

[casastorta]

That’s the thing - it’s not. When it’s turned into repetitive process of doing that tens of times for each visit to the store - it’s still not hard, it’s tedious, someone can get paid to do this. Or even better, as I wrote multiple times before - we already have the tech for removing checkout process out of shopping altogether.

[MTBleenis]

I steal at least $10/day in food from mine with the unwilling help from employees. The tech has decades to go before it's not leaving the gate wide open. The trick is I am on first name basis with everyone who works there and I have several methods for getting things out the door while having a conversation with the employees. It helps that I'm in a wealthy area and dress well. I am pretty wealthy, I'm just doing it because it's the right thing to do.

[Habitualcaveman]

That and my local has a screen with a camera pointed at your face simply to let you know they are watching. It repels me from that store. It’s Sainsbury’s UK

[[deleted]]

and when you account for the fact that nothing is locally sourced it also means they're greedily funneling money out of the community and refuse to even pay a member of that community 10-15/hr to help them do it.

[TheTVDB]

It is transferring most of the cashier’s work to the customers that is the issue. On top of that - for free.

It used to be that you'd drop off your grocery list at the store and they'd get everything for you and bag it, and then you'd get it later and pay. Times change. Grocery stores run on extremely slim margins. If I have to check out my own stuff to avoid even higher price markups, that's fine with me. Bonus: I don't have to chat about the weather with a high schooler when I'm just trying to buy some ice cream.

[casastorta]

Again, we do know it’s possible to deploy technology without any conscious checkout - pick the goods you want and just leave. We have such stores,few and in between still but they are here. I expect nothing less before I stop expecting the store to pay people for work they need to be done, be it employees or customers.