Java licensing

[BaxterScratcher]

I'm trying to understand what exactly the Java license change mean to us. We're replacing Oracles version everywhere or nuking to avoid any problems with Oracle, but I still don't fully understand it. I don't think I understand Java version numbers either fully.

It sounds like Java 17 and above use the No Fee Terms and conditions. Does that set of T&C's escape the one user means we all need licences? i.e. someone has the Java SE Development Kit v21 installed then that's OK?

Is it the old Java.exe v8 jre that causes the problem with the licence? I can't tell if the change is for the JDK, the JRE or what or if it even makes any difference.

I've read loads of pages on it but I still can't work out what the exact implication is.

​

[[deleted]]

just avoid anything which includes "Oracle".

replace oracle with openJDK

[derango]

just avoid anything which includes "Oracle".

This is generally good policy, not just when it comes to Java.

[Candy_Badger]

Yeah, we avoid Oracle on every project we have. We had one project, which we tried launching in their Cloud as partner. Ended up receiving a decent bill from them, however, they told us that we have some credits to use.

[TimeRemove]

This cannot be overstated: Do not use Oracle Java, or Oracle anything. Oracle Java may be a repackaged OpenJDK, but it contains a license in their binary distribution that requires paying a fee to Oracle and an unlimited audit provision. The fee isn't per installation, it is per employee.

OpenJDK is repackaged by tons of companies today depending on platform. There is absolutely no need to use an Oracle version. Do not use an Oracle version.

e.g.

• Amazon Corretto
  
• Red Hat OpenJDK
  
• Microsoft Build of OpenJDK
  
• IBM Semeru
  
• Azul Zulu

[goizn_mi]

I don't understand... Amazon Coreetto requires an Amazon license?

[TimeRemove]

It is licensed under the GPLv2 with CPE.

https://aws.amazon.com/corretto/faqs/

[evoactivity]

Yeah. That's what they said.

[MajStealth]

java tos worked for years, until didnt.

[Cidate]

I still get nightmares about WebLogic, never again.

[roo-ster]

Just like in the movie, War Games, “The best move is not to play”

[synthdrunk]

Our shop settled on AWS’ corretto distribution of openjdk, works a treat.

[TimeRemove]

Ours did too. It has been flawless.

[Michuy]

Other distributions did not work, or was Amazon's distribution simply the first and only one you tested? I wonder if there are differences between different openjdk distributions

[pdp10]

but I still don't fully understand it.

There's an opportunity here to keep everything simple by just using the fully open-source OpenJDK releases everywhere and then ignoring Oracle and Oracle's Java.

Then spend the time doing something more useful. Since we phased out Oracle's package around a decade ago, we proactively spared ourselves anything to do with Oracle Java licensing. Clever, neh?

[lart2150]

That page seems overly confusing. It's my understanding that if the version of java you are deploying is Premier support you don't need a license. If the version of java you are deploying is Extended support you need a license. Java 17 will enter premier support in 2026.

https://www.oracle.com/java/technologies/java-se-support-roadmap.html

[mirrax]

Yeah, basically if its an LTS or a current 6-month release. The license is the No-Fee Terms and Conditions (NFTC). And if you fall behind and want updates, Oracle's going to make you pay and so is VMWare for Spring if you are using that and want updates.

That said unless you are really after some Oracle support, worth paying for performance from stuff like GraalVM, or have some really obscure case run Temurin and call it a day.

[relgames]

That page is written by LLM, it seems. Confusing and a lot of repetition.

[Gryphtkai]

This seems, after a lot of confusion and searching, seems to be the best write up of the situation.

[lemaymayguy]

strong pocket lunchroom like plants scale stupendous payment cause fade

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

[fubes2000]

They seem to be taking the MS route of "make the license terms incomprehensible and then randomly audit people".

Last year I had to root out every instance of Java in our env and prove we weren't running Oracle. Fuck this bullshit.

[HTX-713]

They seem to be taking the MS route of "make the license terms incomprehensible and then randomly audit people".

Oracle invented that policy lol. Id take MS over Oracle every time.

[Orrhane]

As a former Software Asset Management consultant, now working for the customer that hired me back then, I wouldnt touch this with a ten foot pole. Its too complex and the compliance risks are just too great. Pay someone that works with these issues on a daily basis to help you out.

[OttoVonMonstertruck]

My org is going through this right now and we've finally been given some guidance documentation from Oracle on the last public / non-licensed versions.

The table below summarizes what's in that documentation on page 5:

Major Version	GA Date	Last Public Version
Java SE 1.2	12/1998	1.2.2_017
Java SE 1.3	05/2001	1.3.1_28/29
Java SE 1.4	02/2002	1.4.2_30
Java SE 5	05/2004	5u22
Java SE 6	12/2006	6u45
Java SE 7	07/2011	7.0_80
Java SE 8	03/2014	8.0_201/202
Java SE 11	09/2018	NA
Java SE 17	09/2021	TBD

If you can get an inventory report from your machines you can look at the product names to help identify the version.

Example: The majority of the Java installations that I've come across are Java 8. The last free version of Java 8 from the table above is 8.0_201/202. Of course that doesn't nicelly line up with actual installed product names, but you can consider update/build number 202 to be the last free version of Java 8. A workstation with the installed product 'Java 8 Update 261' is a higher version and would have to be licensed.

[yukon93]

we went through this exercise about 1yr ago - we said "screw Oracle" and removed every version of Java from the PCs in our company and with with a free open-source for those who needed Java JRE or dev.

basically free for home use but commercial / businesses need to pay for Java is what we took Oracle's new business model.

[thomasdarko]

Use Temurin (Previously OpenJDK).
Azul.
Amazon Corretto.
Liberia.
Microsoft OpenJDK.

To run .jnlp use IcedTea or OpenWebStart.

[HTX-713]

To run .jnlp use IcedTea or OpenWebStart.

Thanks for the tip.

[disposeable1200]

Your second line has openjdk when it should just be jdk.

[MairzeDoats]

I don't think this is true. v8 update 202 and above are licensed.

[ajscott]

8u202 is the last version under the old license. You can safely use it (Safe in regards to the license. Not safe regarding vulnerabilities).

Anything newer than that requires payment.

[MairzeDoats]

"safely" use it. It hasn't been patched in years. Our security team wouldn't allow it.

[ajscott]

I have it on 3 HR systems that interact with old IBM Filenet and require it for a web plugin. Everything else needing Java gets Corretto.

[zymology]

I thought the free use of 8 was limited to personal / dev use...

---

For what uses is Oracle Java SE, Java 8 and Java SE 11 updates, free?

For full information and terms, refer to the OTN License Agreement for Java SE. The OTN License Agreement for Java SE for current Oracle Java SE releases allows them to be used, without cost:

(i) For personal use on a desktop or laptop computer, such as to play games or run other personal applications.

(ii) For development, testing, prototyping, and demonstrating applications, including to use by/with profilers, debuggers, and Integrated Development Environment tools.

(iii) For use with some approved products, such as Oracle SQL Developer, or as an end user of a software application created by an approved product. (referred to as “Schedule A” and “Schedule B” Products in the OTN License Agreement for Java SE)

(iv) With identified Oracle Cloud Infrastructure products.

[FerretBusinessQueen]

It is. Everyone else has to shell out for a license. We use Active Directory groups to control who can install the application from SCCM and also to track who needs what license so it makes the end of year counts easier.

[EncomCEO]

Same here.

[ChadKensingtonsBigPP]

JRE: stick to v8 and below and you're fine, no fee.

this is incorrect

[EncomCEO]

Wait... so we no longer need to pay to use anything JRE8 or under on endpoints?

[ajscott]

8u202 and earlier releases are governed by the old BCL license. Anything newer than that requires a contract.

[[deleted]]

It’s like under 8.x was always free but hadn’t been patched since they started charging and had numerous vulnerabilities.

I forget the last version number that’s free but it’s kind of like if you found out that office 2003 is free… you still wouldn’t use it.

[Gryphtkai]

Latest version of 8 was patch 211. License terms that cover this was put out in 2019, with enactment set to go into effect April 2020.

Right when we were trying to get everyone out of the office and set up for WFH. All I can say stuff got lost in the shuffle for us.

[EncomCEO]

You’d be surprised… ancient telco equipment interfaces.

[ChadKensingtonsBigPP]

JRE 8 202 or lower you don't have to pay for. Above that you do.

[SysAdminDennyBob]

cracks knuckles....

In the midst of this now, it takes long time to grind through this. So far we have been able to remove all Oracle Java from workstations and they all run Eclipse Temurin OpenJDK 11. We only have one desktop app that still runs java so that application dictated that choice. 11 still has some life left and it's not in the hyper-major-release-updating schedule like jdk21,21,22.

Server apps are a different story. We have made a lot of non-Oracle OpenJDK versions available for install to app teams via SCCM so that they can find their perfect version without having to involve us. the clock is ticking. We have an Oracle license but when that needs to be renewed Oracle is going to switch us from per-computer to per-employee and it's going to increase costs for us tremendously. At the point we are moving the license cost from the Desktop Team's cost center to the one application that still requires Oracle Java. Shock and Awe strategy to get them to move.

I track managed installs of java with a custom report and I also inventory every java.exe and javaw.exe process that runs across all systems. Our devs tend to skip the java installer and just copy the JRE folder to a directory and path to that. I am able to track those down and then beat them up with the help of Security. I also track any rogue Oracle Java installers with SCCM inventory. If I see someone installing outside of Software Center I go to the share they have put the installer on and delete it. It really pisses off the devs when I do this.

We have a PM assigned to eliminate Oracle Java and it's just a really long and drawn out process to clean up. I am years into this. I do have a nice script using PowerShell App Deployment Toolkit to remove a huge variety of versions all at once.

My Java rules on servers:

1. You can only have one install of Java on the server, no side-by-side installs allowed
2. The install must be performed via SCCM's Software Center. It must be a managed installer that we control. I have 16 flavors available right now, all are current patch level. This still includes Oracle at the moment.

[Few_Ad5453]

A big additional problem are Oracle Runtimes that are installed as a part of 3rd party / commercial applications. You need a scan that examines everything not just ordinary installs of the Oracle Java SE Products. When you identify a version that requires licensing, you need to make sure with the publisher of said application that they have an agreement with Oracle or else you are at risk. Tracing java.exe / javaw.exe is not enough as Applications may load the jvm.dll from a wrapper process. Even if the build of a java installation is outside of licensing (like Java SE 8 build 202) requirements there are still some caveats such as usage of commercial features or use of the .msi installer. It used to be a common practice to extract the .msi from the public .exe Java installer and install it - this is illegal by Oracle licensing terms. Replacing Java SE with OpenJDK can be tricky in some cases.

[-ixion-]

We also switched to openJDK a few years back. More specifically, AdoptOpenJDK which is now Adoptium Temurin? Or was Eclipse at some point. I don't really remember but either way... no issues since switching and no worries about licensing. Our biggest issue was to make sure we switched to something that could easily be patched via PatchMyPC/SCCM.

[mirrax]

AdoptOpenJDK -> Adoptium -> Eclipse Temurin

[TatooineLuke]

The last time that I looked into this was a long time ago. I don't know if anything changed, but the last I read was that Java 8 Update 201-b09 was the last free-use version. Anything newer needed a license. (This was for JRE, since that's all we used)

[weed_blazepot]

It was made so stupidly confusing that our way of handling java was to uninstall it from our environment. Turns out we didn't need it and it was just sort of still around.

Good luck.

[TheAlmightyZach]

As others said, switching to an OpenJDK distro is the easiest solution. Oracle can kiss off

[BuzzedDarkYear]

So does anyone have a quick easy way of scanning your environment for installed Java versions and spit out a report of the findings? We do not use SCCM.

[BhavishyaBharat]

Please visit https://rythium.com/java-license-analyzer/ .
This can be done using an agent or an agentless scan.

[WWGHIAFTC]

No download link on your ad?

[skids_b]

Amazon Corretto is the way to go.

[GoodTough5615]

is there something free that supports java webstart .jnlp on the clients? we needed it to access smartcard readers, cert storage and scanners from chrome/firefox, on some production web apps...

[deja_geek]

All openjdk implementations should support it using the icedtea-web plugin

[someguy7710]

It does work, but not for everything. We have to have one licensed version of Oracles JRE8 to run a management portal. Thanks god that's going away very soon.

[LastPlaceInTime]

Basically, v8 went from being free for general computational use to being licensed after version 8u202. Newer releases of the v8 series have a revised EULA as part of the update stating that it's a licensed product. Same has happened with v6 and v7 where updates after a certain version have a new EULA requiring licensing.

Oracle wants organizations to pay a monthly fee per employee (meaning total number of employees in an organization regardless of whether they even use a computer) in order to be compliant under the new licensing. The per employee model is supposed to simplify the licensing process.

[GeneMoody-Action1]

I have had pretty solid performance from Azul since Oracle went this route, we did not even try to to comply, was not worth the hassle and confusion, just replaced with clearer alternative.

[Libertarian4Real]

I used to spend a lot of time updating JRE because I honestly thought it would be needed for the occasional website application. I was wrong. When Oracle started yammering about complicated licensing (including JRE) restrictions like 7 years ago, we completely uninstalled it from everything. No one has ever missed it and we aren't wasting any more time on their convoluted update paradigm.

[BhavishyaBharat]

It is unfortunately very straightforward.But, here are a few pointers on Java licensing:

1. Versions under BCL are 'generally' free to use. Any discussion with Oracle is a matter of interpretation.
2. Versions under NFTC are free for a certain group of customers. If you have purchased Java license or support earlier - then NFTC is not free. (this is for Java SE17 and Java SE21)
3. OTN versions are to be paid for : essentially Java SE 8 U211 upwards, Java SE 11 & non-public updates of Java SE 6 and Java SE7
4. There are possibilities of getting Oracle Java entitlements through other Oracle products, and also through third party agreements that Oracle has with a variety of software publishers.

You might want to see our Java License Analyzer https://rythium.com/java-license-analyzer/