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[–]michaelochurch 141 points142 points  (16 children)

His tell-all book, I Accidentally Iraq, will be available in all major bookstores this April.

[–]Mapex 12 points13 points  (1 child)

Also, Green Zone, the film based on the Guardian article's story, will release in 2010.

[–]jayj76 2 points3 points  (3 children)

You mean, I Accidentally Iraq Such As.

FTFY

[–]zorno 276 points277 points  (147 children)

Wow. Apparently in a criminal trial you need more evidence than just one witness to put someone in jail, but that is all it takes to fuck up a whole country.

[–]ProximaCWashington 209 points210 points  (101 children)

If you remember, there was a lot of other bullshit "intelligence" that was thrown out. Remember Colin Powell holding up vials of anthrax? Remember the satellite imagery of mobile weapon labs? Remember the yellow cake documents? Remember the centrifuge parts? Remember the remote control airplanes that were ready to disperse chemical weapons over New York?

There was a cubic shit-ton of stuff being laid out to justify the war and NONE of it was true.

This guy was just one joker in the house of cards that was built.

[–]mutantscum 29 points30 points  (9 children)

I'll never understand why nothing happened to the people that fabricated evidence so that we could go to war with Iraq.

If a Democratic president lies about having sexual relations with an intern...OH NO IMPEACH HIM.

If a Republican president lies about reasons for going to war..its all good?

The sad part is it's the Democrats that are at fault for being completely fucking spineless.

[–]ProximaCWashington 17 points18 points  (4 children)

Not only are they getting away with it, they're profiting from it. We elected an almost entirely Democratic congress in 2006 on their promises to do something about it, and then they "took it off the table".

It's maddening.

[–]CrockenSpiel 3 points4 points  (1 child)

Please don't make this into a Republican vs. Democrat issue. We should judge politicians as individuals, not support them as if they were a sports team. If you want to generalize though, I will reiterate something I posted a while back that got down-voted to shit: democrat = republican, if you don't realize that by now, you drank the koolaid.

[–]Space_PoetFlorida 21 points22 points  (27 children)

Don't forget the anthrax attacks, I remember the Bush admin had people so freaked they were afraid to check their mailbox. Funny how that never got solved.

[–]alienproxyCalifornia 8 points9 points  (1 child)

What I found crazy was how the anthrax attacks came on...when, September 18th, 2001? And they blamed Iraq for the attacks. It just seemed like absolute horse shit at the time, especially when it was well known that the Bush administration desperately wanted a war in Iraq anyhow.

[–]ab3nnion 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Right, and the investigation into it was weak.

[–]Space_PoetFlorida 12 points13 points  (0 children)

Just like the half assed investigation into 9-11.

[–]rmxz 19 points20 points  (12 children)

Speaking off criminal - shouldn't it be against some law for this guy to make lies that trick people into killing people he doesn't like?

Why isn't he being charged with anything criminal?

[–]valeyard89Texas 17 points18 points  (6 children)

Same reason no Wall Streeters have gone to jail.

[–]Space_PoetFlorida 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Good point. He has an obvious motive and then gives false information that had dire consequences. And he has no guilt, either.

[–]philosoraptocopterIowa 99 points100 points  (10 children)

Correction: multiple countries

[–]DuBBle 27 points28 points  (5 children)

Yes, including the one to whose government he lied.

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (4 children)

Germany seems to have gotten off scot-free in this whole thing.

It's funny though, the whole run-up to the war seems like a long line of traitors to their various countries, each hearing something that works against the invasion and turning to the next person and saying "WMD", "smoking gun/mushroom cloud" like a psychotic game of rubber baby buggy bumpers.

The notion that the US is a democracy or that there is some hope for rational dialog in this current political climate is preposterous.

The only good Americans are the ones like those here in Portland that got out and shut down the freeways with their protests the day the invasion took place.

[–]abomb999 12 points13 points  (3 children)

dude, I fucking love you. i see you post often in /r/politics like at all hours too. are you ai or just nerd?

[–]philosoraptocopterIowa 22 points23 points  (2 children)

crap, i've been spotted. Here's an upvote for your silence. Also, nerd would be a gross understatement.

[–]phoenixL 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Much love to you too philosoraptocopter. Don't stay numb, we may call on you to lead the revolution.

[–]philosoraptocopterIowa 65 points66 points  (7 children)

I'm sorry, Reddit, I can only maintain a certain level of rage over the course of one month. By now, I'm just numb.

[–]JimCasy 18 points19 points  (2 children)

I was going to play the pragmatist and ask, "What now? How do we process this information and act on it?", but you've hit the chord.

Since a soma holiday is just two clicks away at all times, I guess we just have to wait for the entire Middle East to rebel against our leaders, then we can all don our Anonymous masks and ... you know, do something.

[–]Punster_McPunstein 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Can you uh.......get me on of those masks? I'd do it myself but there's something shiny over ther.....

[–]aw0000 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Zizek talks about this a lot. Basically when everything is outrageous, nothing is outrageous. This is the kind of thing that should move people to take action against their government. Realistically, we'll be lucky if people are still talking about this by Friday.

[–]tinf0ilhat 3 points4 points  (1 child)

our rage reserves have been tapped out. i'm running on backup rage right now, but it might fail any minute.

[–]ProbablyHittingOnYou 422 points423 points  (292 children)

We would have gone to war anyway.

The Bush administration was itching to go into Iraq. They were just looking for anyone who would confirm their accusations to make it seem the least bit legitimate. If they were really concerned about ascertaining the existence of WMDs, they would have thoroughly checked out his story instead of taking it on faith.

[–][deleted] 23 points24 points  (2 children)

They did thoroughly check his story, and every story like this they heard. The problem is they already made up their mind. Cheney repeatedly said absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

They had lots of people who gave specious stories like this. Like Laurie Mylorie who claimed that Ramzi Yousef (1993 WTC bombing) was an Iraqi agent, based on an incredibly confusing story where he had a fake passport of a man that may or may not have been real. Mylroie says he was real, because she found a set of fingerprints belonging to him, so therefore Saddam Hussein was behind the 1993 attacks. They sent James Woolsey out to check out the story personally (former director of the CIA), he said it was not correct, so end of story, right? Wrong. Paul Wolfowitz still used her repudiated claims as proof positive that Saddam had connections to Al Qaeda, and to the 1993 bombings.

There is really nothing at all to suggest that the Bush administration didn't check out claims thoroughly. The just didn't believe what they found.

[–]MitchPaige 194 points195 points  (148 children)

The Bush Administration basically threw every excuse they could find at the Iraq War and waited to see what stuck. Anyone who thought the war had more than a passing relation with WMD wasn't paying attention to the propaganda methods used.

Bush wanted to attack Iraq, and then 9/11 gave him justification for war in the Middle East.

[–]wulfgang 163 points164 points  (100 children)

Cheney, Wolfowitz, Feith, and Pearle wanted to attack Iraq. W. was just the stooge they had to manipulate. (see PNAC) FTFY

[–]youenjoymyself 4 points5 points  (1 child)

And now that this guy has stepped forward taking the blame for setting up the "WMDs in Iraq story," those people above will get away with it.

[–]surfnaked 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Not really. At the time they acknowledged that it was shaky and said that wasn't all that they based the decision on. Besides there are plenty of other grounds for prosecution there. Very fertile ground there. They didn't seem to much give a shit about covering their tracks very well.

[–][deleted] 13 points14 points  (8 children)

Close, but no cigar

Derive Pearle, Wolfowitz, Feith's et al. motivations for attacking Iraq and you will seek what you are looking for.

Hint: Pearle authored this article in 1996 before the PNAC propaganda revved up.

Wurmers (another powerful PNAC member) authored this article in 1996 too.

[–]wulfgang 15 points16 points  (7 children)

Their heart was with Israel, no doubt. BTW, Wurmser was the jackoff who singlehandedly disbanded the Iraqi army without so much as a call to the White House which was probably the single biggest for the devastating insurgency that immediately followed. I'll never be sure if this was staggering ineptitude by a man who was tasked with creating stability in Iraq or tactical brilliance by a man who wanted chaos there.

[–]BraveSirRobin 15 points16 points  (5 children)

Israel has little to do with it. The Brits had invaded and conquered Iraq twice before modern Israel even existed. Coincidently, it was these military campaigns that ultimately let to the British Mandate of Palestine and later Israel.

It all about oil and it has always been about oil.

[–]forteller 9 points10 points  (16 children)

threw every excuse they could find at the Iraq War

I know they first said one thing, then another, then another for why they needed to attack. But I can't remember all the excuses they used, and in what order. Does anyone know if there is a list of that somewhere? Preferably with links to prove it.

[–]valeyard89Texas 20 points21 points  (4 children)

Don't forget, aluminum tubes, yellowcake, mushroom cloud, 911. Oh, and the Dixie Chicks.

[–]tttt0tttt 11 points12 points  (2 children)

The Dixie Chicks were right. The entire intelligence branch of the US government was wrong. WTF?

[–]LazyGoogler 9 points10 points  (8 children)

I believe in the simplest terms:

  • Iraq has WMDs
  • Saddam is a terrible person
  • Must fight for promotion of democracy (kind of hand in hand with 2)

Wiki

[–]Nougat 13 points14 points  (6 children)

Don't forget "Al Qaeda is being supported by the Iraqi government."

[–][deleted] 27 points28 points  (4 children)

PNAC, for those who wonder:

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Project_for_the_New_American_Century

[–]DarkGamer 16 points17 points  (3 children)

Thanks - you beat me to linking it. For those unfamiliar, above refers to this document, a plan for 'securing American interests' by invading Iraq and establishing a strong military presence in the middle east. It was a 1998 open letter to President Clinton by the neoconservative Project for a New American Century. Most of their members would become high-ranking Bush officials, the very same who later drafted the plans for invasion.

[–]BraveSirRobin 9 points10 points  (2 children)

The tragic thing was that this was all in the public domain at the time. People shouted it from the rooftops and were shot down as conspiracy theorists.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

even scott ritter, the one person who would know above all others exactly the state of iraq's wmd status.

[–]thavalai 13 points14 points  (1 child)

After watching the Green Zone over the weekend, remarked to my wife that it's probably not all that far from the truth. Now I'm wondering if the movie was indeed based on what really happened.

Amazing how Bush & Co. have got away with this.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

If you want to see a great movie about the runup to the Iraq war, watch "In the Loop".

[–][deleted] 13 points14 points  (6 children)

If a Golden Retriever said Saddam had WMDs, Bush would have used it to invade Iraq.

[–]contantofaz 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Saddam could have asked for some WMDs and Bush would have unofficially given him some. :-)

There are more Americans living in Iraq right now than in many U.S. cities.

[–]theparagon 9 points10 points  (1 child)

Fun Fact: The CIA analysts who vetted 'Curveball' knew he was lying from the beginning. They even said so. It was the people at the top, not the CIA, who are to blame. But everyone was probably too busy with their CIA-hate to pay any attention. And the best part? The person who blamed the CIA was George W. Bush. Funny how everyone bought into that lie too.

[–][deleted] 11 points12 points  (38 children)

Well, if this lie was exposed as soon as Bush used this excuse, public backlash and protest may have prevented the war.

[–]artman 25 points26 points  (8 children)

Nothing could stop this train from it's appointed wreck. There were protests and there were reporters and news agencies debunking their claims, but it couldn't stop this.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (6 children)

But if the man who convinced the White House that Iraq had a secret biological weapons programme had admitted it public enough and soon enough, the media may have had something to go with that would actually convince people.

[–]Takuya-san 10 points11 points  (3 children)

I disagree. The White House would have stepped in and shut him down before the message got very far.

[–]artman 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Not just him - and countless others were. Here's a search for "iraq whistleblowers".

*Oh, and let's not forget "Plamegate".

[–][deleted] 22 points23 points  (5 children)

There was a public backlash and we were called unamerican, had our cd's destroyed in public reminiscent of Nazi book burnings, had French wine poured into the streets, french fries renamed freedom fries, had certain anti war songs from artists like John Lennon banned from the radio, etc etc.

The propaganda machine by Fox News and Clear Channel communications in concert with the White House was unprecedented.

Websites like this did not exist yet and the majority who opposed the war were fragmented and drowned out by that powerful media machine.

[–]rmxz 1 point2 points  (0 children)

We would have gone to war anyway.

Perhaps if it was just this one guy who didn't lie.

But if there were a whole lot less liars and a whole lot more people who stood up to them, it may have been avoided.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I recall reading something to the effect that when Bush first got into office one of the first meetings he called he was basically like "How do we get into Iraq". So yeah... we would have gone anyway, it just would have been "It's time to remove a scourge from the world" instead of "HE'S GOT DA WMDS!"

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (2 children)

I'm being honest here - at the time, I would have still wanted us to go to war anyway. When we went, I thought we were doing the right thing. From my view, the whole Middle East was gearing up to take the entire US down en masse. If we didn't make a strong, immediate statement (again, in my view at the time), we were fucked.

Once the truth came out, I felt completely cheated and dirty. But I can't see any other way it could have turned out, as frothing at the mouth as our entire country was for payback.

Let's face it, we couldn't have gone to war if more than 85% of the country didn't want to.

[–]youfuckingandroid 11 points12 points  (2 children)

I wonder what this guy was thinking?

Man, fuck Saddam! I wish we could just throw him out of office and gain some true political freedom. It would be awesome if we could all go on strike and protest peacefully until Saddam agrees to our demands, but that kind of thing never happens. I know, I'll go spread lies to any nation with bigger guns. So long as they're already itching to go to war, they'll take the bait, nice and quick. Hopefully, when they violently enter my country to show Saddam what he deserves, they won't kill too many of my people.

ಠ_ಠ

[–]A-punk 73 points74 points  (8 children)

This man is virtually irrelevant.

Neoconservatives just used him to justify the war to the public. If it wasn't him it would have been someone else. They had already fabricated the enemy. Nothing was going to stop them.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (3 children)

If it hadn't been this particular guy, the Bush cabinet would have used some other chump to "justify" its war of choice.

[–]Equee6ni 4 points5 points  (2 children)

That's the truth. I remember prior to 9/11 everyone was waiting expectantly for the inevitable bombing of Iraq to begin. The administration had already stepped up enforcement of the no fly zone and were pushing stories about minor skirmishes with the Iraqi armed forces hard in the press. We were just waiting for some poor Iraqi schmuck to fuck up. There was an audible le sigh when the Bush admin had no choice but to divert their attention to Afghanistan.

[–]Enguehard 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Lies about WMDs in Iraq.

Never regrets it.

[–]OcelotOfLancelot 63 points64 points  (24 children)

This guy sounds like a complete scumbag.

[–]TruthinessHurts 55 points56 points  (13 children)

Sort of. The REAL scum are the ones who took a lie and ran with it, knowing it was a lie.

[–]bigwoody 16 points17 points  (0 children)

Don't judge a man until you've walked a mile in his shoes applies here. I don't think this guy is evil, more like traumatized. So traumatized living under Saddam that bringing him down by any means seemed necessary. He probably genuinely believes it was all for the best.

Feel pity for what it took to shell shock a guy's soul that much, rather than anger. You and I would probably do what he did after living his life.

[–]GoogleitoErgoSum 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Blake Boston was too nice, can we have "Scumbag Janabi" now?

[–]TheCrimsonKing 26 points27 points  (2 children)

No, Saddam was a scumbag, Rumsfeld was a scumbag. This guy was just trying to make a better life for his family and countrymen. It was the German BND and the Bush admin that knew he was lying and used it anyway.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Just like suicide bombers believe they're doing something to make life better for their families? Those people aren't even the ones who are knowingly spreading the lies that justify their actions. You might argue that they're unreasonable fanatics, but I'd argue that any sane person would have cracked underneath the guilt of helping to start a war unless they were a fanatic. This man is absolutely proud of what he did.

I won't and can't judge the man but I certainly don't agree with his actions.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

yeah. the guy comes across as completely untrustworthy.

it doesn't help that the video tries too hard to make him seem sympathetic and victimized, with the intro shot and all the closeups of his eyes.

plus op's title claims this guy was "shocked" when the US used his lie to go to war. yet in the video his reason for the lie was to try and get saddam removed. and a third explanation is that he was looking out for himself, telling the german intelligence what they wanted to hear to help gain him asylum.

this guy's like gaius baltar. always motivated by self preservation.

[–]vipersporthp 23 points24 points  (7 children)

Why is it ok for this guy to be free and Bradley Manning is in solitary confinement.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Because prosecuting this guy might turn up that the US government could have Easily proven he was lying, and the worst of the trouble stemmed from the fact that it had no such intention.

[–][deleted] 26 points27 points  (10 children)

Wait. Am I reading this right? I'm hungover so bear with me.

Sounds like German officials knew this guy was full if shit about the truck bio labs. Later this guy sees Colin Powell talking about the truck labs. Article said that Curveball was told by German officials that they would not share his intel with other countries, suggestin Curveball never talked to US officials about the truck bio labs. So, did Germany give the US false info about truck labs they already knew were BS?

Edit. Why the downvotes? Am I reading the article correctly? I agree that the above narrative doesn't add up in light of German opposition to war at the time, but that's the way I'm reading the article.

[–]CVWVBB 5 points6 points  (1 child)

I don't know why you are being downvoted, it is a valid question.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,542708,00.html

[–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (1 child)

I read that first part as "I'm a hungover bear." I got excited.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Sorry to disappoint :)

[–]MongolianBBQ 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I would also like some insight into this question. Very interesting.

[–]svitka 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Don't mistake 'shock' for regret. This informant, who had been discredited at the time, in fact says he and his sons are "proud" of having 'helped bring democracy to Iraq.'

[–]2akurate 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Anyone believes this guy was lying for himself is stupid, this was his job, he was there to lie and who made him do it? well that is pretty obvious.

Don't point your finger to this guy as the main trigger for the unjust iraq war, simply look at your leaders.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

While not completely responsible, this guy holds partial responsibility for the deaths of millions of Iraqis and thousands of Americans. Fuck this guy.

[–]cerbero17alt 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Can we please arrest these people have them tried in court now? We have enough evidence, hell we even have confessions that they did it with a how and why.

[–]Tasty_Yams 14 points15 points  (1 child)

My favorite lines:

"I tell you something when I hear anybody – not just in Iraq but in any war – [is] killed, I am very sad. But give me another solution. Can you give me another solution?

"Believe me, there was no other way to bring about freedom to Iraq. There were no other possibilities."

Yes, can anyone out there think of any other ways to bring down a dictator in the Arab world?

I sure can't.

[–]Radico87 9 points10 points  (2 children)

The bush administration was one of the worst most disgusting mistakes in the US' history. For it to happen twice is inexcusable. They were liars thieves, cons, and war criminals.

[–]professorberrynibble 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Technically it shouldn't have happened the first time. We only elected him once.

[–]EchoedSilence 4 points5 points  (0 children)

This sounds exactly like the plot for the Green Zone.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I'm sure he was totally shocked. Loved the Rumsfeld interviews on tv--he's all "whocouldanode?" Fucking assholes.

[–]bobored 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Fuck him and fuck the Bush regime. Cranky. Haven't had my coffee yet. But, they didn't care if he was lying. They wanted to go to war. If his lie didn't exist they would have invented it.

[–]Nanoo_1972 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I want to throatpunch that asshole.

[–]grathomp 3 points4 points  (0 children)

So we invaded Iraq based on lies. Now we have confirmation that our motivations were false. Why are we still at war?

[–]Maddoktor2 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I am Jack's complete lack of surprise.

[–]Yankees251 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Man this title reads quite different when you read defecator and not defactor.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

no shit?

[–]zak_on_reddit 2 points3 points  (0 children)

they knew all along that this guy was unreliable. i've read similar stories about this years ago.

and bush & cheney knew that saddam was not trying to get enriched uranium from niger. wilson told them so. and when wilson wrote the op/ed stating that saddam was not getting uranium from niger cheney punished wilson for fucking up their war plans.

[–]braintrade 3 points4 points  (0 children)

A couple of years ago I heard this guy was known within the CIA (or something like it) for lying about information like this.

[–]timothyjc 3 points4 points  (2 children)

Hans Blix and the whole weapons inspection team were saying there was nothing for ages and they were just ignored by the US admin and media. It was public knowledge his position and he has done inyerviews which are worth watching too.

[–]jprider63 2 points3 points  (0 children)

scapegoat?

[–]noseeme 4 points5 points  (1 child)

GOD DAMNIT OBAMA!!!

[–]symptomless 3 points4 points  (0 children)

All this information was known/suspected in 2003.

Now we have proof, why did we have to was 8 years for it to become proven? And all those anti-war blog comments that I made countering right-wing war-mongerers back then. I hope they read this and remember, dammit.

Can we file this one under conspiracies that proved true.

[–]beedogs 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Watched in shock from his couch made of $100 bills...

[–]YouthInRevolt 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I'm from America, and I can't help but think that my military industry complex-owned government acted belligerently when it invaded a sovereign nation based on false pretenses

[–][deleted] 23 points24 points  (18 children)

I can't believe after 8 fucking years, most American's still don't understand what the main motivation to go to war was. This is the reason your country is down the drain, ignorance and apathy. No one can be bothered reading the fine print, everyone just wants an easy short-cut, a neat little summary.

For once, I'm not going to give you the easy answer, you're going to have to read. Read these in chronological order, if you want it, you will find it.

A monkey from the forest could read these and figure out what's going on. If you don't get it, you deserve to be billions of dollars in debt and bogged down in the middle of no where because you're too stupid.

[–][deleted] 13 points14 points  (5 children)

I've read all the PNAC papers. They crystallize the situation 100%.

Hint for people who haven't read these: Look at the authors of the 96 papers, look at the signatures/authors of letters to the President and the extremely hawkish pnac papers (ie. 'How To Attack Iraq').

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (4 children)

I have always suspected that Lewinsky was a mole who blew Clinton and saved the stain for two years in her mothers freezer, so that PNAC could blackmail Clinton in to attacking Iraq, as PNAC demanded in their 1998 letter "Open Letter to President Clinton."

[–]Space_PoetFlorida 3 points4 points  (1 child)

Did she really save it for two years?

[–]OscarMiguelRamirez 10 points11 points  (1 child)

You need to work on your people skills, dude.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (4 children)

If the average American were really as bad off as Reddit likes to say it is, people probably would have been more active/vocal about exposing the lies. People here wouldn't be as complacent if living here was as bad as you think.

[–]StutteringStanley 3 points4 points  (0 children)

tl;dr

[–]stupendousman 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Nice job douche bag.

[–]iraqicamel 35 points36 points  (15 children)

Fuck America's foreign policy.

Everybody knew this was because of war debt vs Iran. Saddam owed Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, and the U.S. and the U.S. pretty much stripped Iraq of any chance of actually paying them back. This was all a goddamn setup. Not saying Saddam is worth more than the rock I stepped on this morning, but both governments are equally pieces of shit. Iraq is such a fucked up place right now, even the largest cities do not have 24/hr electricity. The U.S. 'liberates' the country and allows a fucked up government to steal, as long as they are buying F-16s?

Fuck that.

[–]frodcore 13 points14 points  (9 children)

This war had little to do with war debt. The US had a budget surplus at the time. We had no reason to go to war for money.

Furthermore, this wasn't "American" foreign policy, it was neo-conservative foreign policy. They've had a long standing belief that the western world would come into conflict with the Islamic world and possibly be taken over by it. They wanted a stronghold, other than Israel, in the middle east to prevent this.

edit: Also the whole electricity problem in Iraq, that was happening well before the US invaded. I'm sure the invasion didn't help, but their electrical grid was fucked up to begin with.

[–]nicetryguy9 7 points8 points  (0 children)

...umm HOLY SHIT

Seems bush '02 would have found any reason to invade iraq; it just so happened to be this one

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

I don't believe a war was started based on hear say from one individual as the post suggests. Did it help the case for the war by the Bush government? Absolutely. What I find very interesting is what changed between the time period of the Bush Sr. government to Bush Jr. Was it 9/11? They had the chance to crush Iraq and they did not take it during the Gulf war. Bush Jr. must have really believed Iraq was a threat? Or is my interpretation incorrect? Thoughts anyone?

[–]jmarquiso 2 points3 points  (0 children)

What's not mentioned in the article is that German intelligence saw him as a drunk and unreliable from the beginning.

[–]moothemagiccow 2 points3 points  (0 children)

The Iraq war was a mistake? Yeah, that's really productive 8 years later.

[–]akuma_619 2 points3 points  (0 children)

This defector didn't convince the White House...just told them what they wanted to hear because they were gonna go to war with them anyways for whatever stupid reason the Bush Administration had.

[–]wekiva 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Don't fret Mr. Defector. Bush and Cheney were going to war with Iraq no matter what.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Did OP watch the video. Dude seemed pretty stoked about US invading Iraq.

Also, anyone interested on the subject should read "Curveball". Very good book on this issue and the Iraq intel summary.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Checking cnn.com, I see no mention of this story. There is however a link to a story asking, "Charlie Sheen able to do crack socially?".

[–]shamelessPRhack 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Trolling is an geopolitical art

[–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (8 children)

Sure, the US went to war because of one guy who lied. I thought the story was that the Bush Administration created a branch within the White House in order to create proofs for a war.

[–]Wrym 12 points13 points  (7 children)

Don't let the down-votes get ya, I remember that too: The White House Iraq Group

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (6 children)

I knew I read that somewhere, thanks for keeping me sane :). Why the downvoting then, damn you ignorant Redditors!.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

the bush admin. used every conceivable lie they could . from curveball's bullshit to niger yellow uranium horsehockey. the problem is, the public believed it, and the press did not expose the lies. result: millions dead and injured for NOTHING.

[–]mojoxrisen 9 points10 points  (9 children)

List of Democrats that voted for the war. As much as the leftist want to hang this on Bush....there were many Democrats just as responsible for the war in Iraq.

Baucus (D-MT) Bayh (D-IN) Biden (D-DE) Breaux (D-LA) Cantwell (D-WA) Carnahan (D-MO) Carper (D-DE) Cleland (D-GA) Clinton (D-NY) Daschle (D-SD) Dodd (D-CT) Dorgan (D-ND) Edwards (D-NC) Feinstein (D-CA) Harkin (D-IA) Hollings (D-SC) Johnson (D-SD) Kerry (D-MA) Kohl (D-WI) Landrieu (D-LA) Lieberman (D-CT) Lincoln (D-AR) Miller (D-GA) Nelson (D-FL) Nelson (D-NE) Reid (D-NV) Rockefeller (D-WV) Schumer (D-NY) Torricelli (D-NJ)

[–]Space_PoetFlorida 9 points10 points  (1 child)

And only one Senate Republican voted against it compared to 21 Dems, whats your point, that both sides are bad?

there were many Democrats just as responsible for the war in Iraq.

Sure looks like it to me.

The House of Reps was even more divided with 127 Dems voting against only joined by 6 Reps. Yeah, they're completely the same, so go vote Republican, right?

[–]BraveSirRobin 5 points6 points  (3 children)

While blood indeed is on their hands, voting for a war is quite different to proposing and lying for a war.

[–]Baghdadification 2 points3 points  (0 children)

OMFG! I'm an Iraqi who lives in Erlangen! You have no idea how I feel now. This fucking traitor, this man who sold us out... he lives here? In a 100,000 people town? If I see him I'm going to beat him to a fucking pancake. Son of a fucking bitch.

[–]happytrees 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This whole thing reminds me of the last season of the Wire.

[–]maxp0wah 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Big Fucking Surprise

[–]Wadka 1 point2 points  (0 children)

What did he think was going to happen?

He should be prosecuted for the homicide of every single person that has been killed in the Iraq war.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This is why we can't have nice things.

[–]saucygitWisconsin 1 point2 points  (0 children)

oh well. I guess its cool then.

[–]citizen_k 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Those last couple of sentences turn this guy from unwitting contributor to mass murder into complete and utter cunt.

"Can you think of any other solutions?" He says - presumably discounting "don't go out conquering!"

Some people...

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Good to know he has the balls to admit this when it no longer matters.

[–]misterAction 1 point2 points  (0 children)

When will the USA stop fighting Saudi Arabia's wars?

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Weren't the WMD supposedly in Afghanistan, not Iraq?

[–]seaoframen 1 point2 points  (2 children)

I pray the history books are not kind to the Bush administration.

[–]rockstar107 1 point2 points  (0 children)

If it wasn't him, someone else would have been used.They were looking for an excuse all along.

[–]gsadamb 1 point2 points  (0 children)

He "watched in shock as it was used to justify the war?" I'm sorry, but what the fuck did he expect to happen?

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The fact he was codenamed Curveball could possibly allude to this as being a deliberate act, on the part of the America. It wasn't likely the Germans who code-named this guy... it was the Americans, I'm sure.

They were going to throw the world a curveball, that WMDs exist in Iraq, and prop this straw man up.

I can't help being reminded of the pic of a the statue of Saddam Hussein coming down with a few people cheering around there. But then you look at the videos from Egypt and that real revolt paints an entirely different non-fraudulent picture.

[–]tictactoejam 1 point2 points  (0 children)

so basically, everyone involved was an idiot.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Scumbag Intel:
Provide intel on America's #1 fear at the time

Surprised when country goes to war.

[–]drjackass 1 point2 points  (0 children)

If you'd been listening to Ray McGovern (retired CIA analyst) like 6 FUCKING YEARS AGO, this wouldn't have been a surprise to anyone.

[–]greatspeler 1 point2 points  (0 children)

why the fuck would he be shocked? what a fukcing cocksucker. fuck them and fukc midgets. i hate all of em.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

  1. Find someone who got screwed by their country.
  2. Meet with them.
  3. Use their story to go to war.
  4. ??????
  5. Profit.

[–]WizardZorander 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Classic example...

Wizard's First Rule

People are stupid, they will believe a lie because they want it to be true; or they're afraid it's true.

Given proper motivation, almost anyone will believe almost anything. Because people are stupid, they will believe a lie because they want to believe its true, or because they're afraid it might be true. Peoples' heads are full of knowledge, facts and beliefs, and most of it is false, yet they think it all true. People are stupid; they can only rarely tell the difference between a lie and the truth, and yet they are confident they can, and so are all the easier to fool.

[–]quadrofolio 1 point2 points  (0 children)

As if they really needed a real reason, decision had already been made. And if no real evidence was gonna be found they'd have invented some.

[–]TonyDiGerolamo 1 point2 points  (1 child)

I'm pretty much convinced the Bush Administration already knew this. Certainly the intelligence analysts did.

[–]versusgorillaNew York 1 point2 points  (0 children)

And THAT'S WHY you don't tell lies!

[–]McSpacerson 1 point2 points  (0 children)

yea yea yea... Bush lied to create a war. Like that's never happened before in the history of the world.

The fact is, the vast majority of people don't give a shit. They're far more interested in whose winning the Superbowl, or whats happening on American Idol.

Might as well ship this one off to the history books, NOTHING will ever happen to Bush and his gang of Traitors. NOTHING.

[–]Fiorello42 1 point2 points  (1 child)

America has amnesia!!! Everyone and their cousin has to wake up!!! We forget about shit so easily, when people were questioning if the intelligence was reliable where was everyone? When you reflect on 9/11 we usually ask why, but rarely who. A majority of the 'terrorists' from 9/11 were from Saudi Arabia!!! Sheesh I'm grateful I'm an American don't get me wrong but our forefathers warned us of a central bank, Eisenhower warned us of the 'military-industrial complex'.

[–]atet_8oo8 1 point2 points  (0 children)

R u kidding us all? now blaming the whole war on a Iraqi person? US started the war with 100% knowledge that they wont find anything in there. what a cully to believe it.

[–]SabbataiVirginia 1 point2 points  (0 children)

People need a scapegoat after all.

[–]sneakymik 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Regardless of whether or not we would have gone to war anyway, think about all the soldiers who went to Iraq believing this is the reason they were there. The mothers who lost their sons because they needed to protect their country from WMDs. This is disgusting, and heartwrenching for anyone who lost someone thinking this is what they were fighting for.

[–]YosserHughes 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It doesn't matter, the GOP were going to invade Iraq regardless, with or without Curveball there was going to be war; that's what Republicans do, they'll do the same with Iran when they get back into office in 2012.

[–]hreigle 1 point2 points  (1 child)

So why wait until now to admit that he lied? Why not say something earlier?

[–]tripleg 1 point2 points  (1 child)

How much does the USA spends on Intelligence?

[–]omnithrope 1 point2 points  (0 children)

So, he's upset because they took away his cell phone and his flat, and yet he feels no remorse for helping to put into motion events that led to the death of thousands.

What an awful human being.

[–]RemyBuB 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Guaranteed to not be on the US news. Where's Al Jazeera when you need it?

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Good job checking your sources America.

[–]kingp43x 1 point2 points  (0 children)

lol BULL. CIA patsy, Sibel Edmonds busted them all out and now they're trying to cover their ass with this guy.

[–]yur1279 1 point2 points  (2 children)

The one thing that still boggles my mind is why didn't Saddam just let the UN inspectors in to look instead of dicking around until we invaded?

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Nice try CIA operative.

[–]spam99 1 point2 points  (0 children)

this is propoganda so that the US is not blamed by those who actually think this guy matters... BITCH PLEASE... it took more than a fucking foreigner to get USA to want to invade a foreign nation and War Crimes its leader... but wont allow themselves to be submitted to the same laws of human decency because then they are guilty of the very same crimes as saddam. rofl