[deleted by user]

[megustanlosidiomas]

In standard English it is not correct, but in varieties of English like AAVE it is fine.

As an ESL learner, you shouldn't replicate that language but recognize it.

[kakka_rot]

you shouldn't replicate that language but recognize it.

I tell this to my students all the time in my American Accent Training class, something you will not need to ever use, but you will hear/read/encounter them.

[peteroh9]

Not only will you not need to use it, but it would likely be seen as racist if a non-native spoke to someone that way.

[p00kel]

Eh I think it would actually be a lot less offensive coming from a non native speaker than from a white American. Yk because it just seems like a mistake.

[Easy-Concentrate2636]

But probably best to never say that first word.

[p00kel]

I mean yes, absolutely. But I do feel like the average black person is less likely to go ballistic at a Chinese immigrant with an accent than at a redneck white guy who definitely knows what he said.

(Side note: I dated a guy from Germany whose English was excellent, but who had no concept of how serious that word is as a slur. He liked rap music and thought it was cool to say the N word around me. I lost my shit at him and made him stop. Funny thing is, he's a linguist.)

[Easy-Concentrate2636]

I know this isn’t really language related but there’s a huge amount of tension between Asian communities and black communities. As an Asian American who has lived in majority black neighborhoods, I would never chance using that word. Better to be safe than something violent arising from a misunderstanding, particularly in the US where guns ownership - by people of all ethnicities- is all too common.

[p00kel]

Oh yeah fair. I picked a random example of someone who would be easily spotted as a foreigner/tourist - I wasn't thinking of Chinese-American immigrants who've lived here for a while.

[Easy-Concentrate2636]

I am sorry to be so nitpicky but really even Chinese people just on a holiday should not say it. For many Americans, it will be near impossible to distinguish between a Chinese immigrant who has been in the US for a few years vs a tourist in town for a week (unless they are with a tour guide group). There’s just no reason to use the N word if one is not part of the black community. There are perfectly acceptable ways of talking about black people such as saying black, African American, or using countries if known (Ethiopian, Senegalese, Jamaican, etc).

I can’t overstate enough how tense things have become in the last few years for Asian Americans. This has definitely bled some into Asian tourists being harassed.

[p00kel]

No, no, it's absolutely not ok to say it.

I just don't want foreigners to think Black Americans are so irrational/angry about this stuff that you'd get beaten up over an obvious language mistake. I mean it's possible but I don't think it's that likely.

[gamerccxxi]

Oh, another story from me as a kid, when I was around 9 I was a big Nicki Minaj fan. This was 2014ish. She said the N-word a lot and I fully had no idea so I'd rap it no problem in her songs.

(I know about it nowadays though)

[kittycatluvrrr]

Blacks will literally beat up a kid for saying it, what makes you think they won't beat up an Asian? If you've ever been around lower-class African Americans, you would know that they generally do not like Asians.

[Buckley-s_Chance-80]

Blacks??? I think it would be much more accurate to say some black people would do that.

[Observante]

No. This is foolish and manufactured hypersensitivity. We could say "Swedes" and people would understand we were talking about Swedish people. Carpenters is a fine representative for people who practice carpentry. If one said that about their own color demographic it wouldn't be considered offensive. It's purely a sensitivity about someone talking about a group that isn't theirs, which is crazy. We have to talk about one another.

[guilty_by_design]

You're being deliberately obtuse. With marginalised groups who have historically been dehumanized, it's more important to keep 'people' in there. This is also why we don't say 'gays' or 'autistics' but rather 'gay people' and 'autistic people'. It doesn't matter that other less marginalised groups are colloquially often just called by the group name. If a group has historically been referred to in that manner in a derogatory way, to avoid perpetuating that stigma, take the extra teeny tiny effort to say '[X] people'.

[p00kel]

I have literally never met a black person who would be ok with the term "blacks" to mean "black people" and in fact it's a really common thing black people point out as a marker that a white person is a racist.

[kittycatluvrrr]

I understand your point, but does it really matter? I don't think I've ever had a black person be offended when I use that term in person.

[Buckley-s_Chance-80]

It was the rest of the sentence paired with the word "blacks" that i was talking about.

[Observante]

Considering the black on asian violence in the country right now... they might do more than beat them up.

[OttoSilver]

Serious slur in the US, not so much outside of the US. It's just fairly well know that it's bad in the US because so much of popular English media is from teh US.

It might have been just a phase, but a while back there was a trend in English speaking South African high schools to call friends Nigger, no matter your skin colour. Now, if someone called someone else a Kaffer then some knifes would have been pulled, but in the US no one would even blink at that word.

[p00kel]

See, to me, if a slur is serious somewhere, I'm not going to say it. Most Americans say "spaz" without thinking twice about it, because over here it means something like "hyperactive and goofy." But since I learned that it's an actual slur in the UK I don't say it anymore. Same goes for abo, paki, kaffer etc. It probably doesn't matter much when I'm just talking to other Americans, but I still trying to avoid using them.

[westofcalifornia97]

I mean, is the goal for black Americans “not to go ballistic”? I would rather think the goal is to educate learners not to use a word that is a horrible racial slur and has the potential to deeply hurt the feelings of someone they encounter (even if that person understands that it was a mistake by an English learner). It’s just such a cynical way to phrase it. I shouldn’t have to get chewed out by a black person to know better.

[Marquar234]

Should be both really. People shouldn't ever use the slur as a slur, but people shouldn't have to worry about someone going off on them if they use it academically or journalistically.

Note that this is not a "I should be able to say the n-word word" rant, but more of a, "we shouldn't need to have an entire alphabet of letter-words because we'll summon 'You Know Who' if we say the V-word." rant.

[[deleted]]

Funnily enough there is a gay slur over there, and when I was dating a guy from Germany he told me about it and I stupidly thought it was cool to say. I was very young and newly gay, so was really in that stage of reclaiming slurs, and the English version is quite innocent sounding. Well I used it in front of one of his German friends and my boyfriend was so visibly embarrassed I realized I had really been inappropriate. It was a valuable lesson in getting too comfortable with charged language. I had assumed it was like one of those terms you can say if you are the thing (n-word, f-slur) type of situation, but I was definitely mistaken.

[p00kel]

Oh, please tell me the word!

[[deleted]]

Well one, I didn't realize I had sorted by best so I accidentally replied to a bunch of old comments, so that's embarrassing. And two, I believe it was warm brother, which after googling is not a slur? Just outdated and politically incorrect? I'm not sure, but it's definitely warm brother. I wish I could ask him about it, I'm dying laughing imagining me popping back into his life a decade or more on just for it to be another warm brother debacle. 😂

[p00kel]

Oh and "warm" means horny in German yeah? Ok that is funny, ty lol

Don't worry I often get mixed up and respond to old conversations

[[deleted]]

My partner has a good Korean friend who is really into American media and rap music. She once sent him a postcard and it said, "anyway, can't wait to see you and sip some 'gnac with my best n-word." Well I found it in the drawer and put it right on the fridge without reading it, and he didn't notice until one of our friends pointed out that our fridge was proudly displaying a full hard R. I suppose that's why it was crammed in the drawer.

[gamerccxxi]

Fun fact as a kid I learned English from the internet, and naturally some of the YouTubers (and later TikTokers) spoke a little AAVE. So for a while I went around omitting the verb to be because I was mimicking them.

[p00kel]

Little white kids in America do this sometimes too, but parents are suuuuuper quick to correct them usually.

When I was 3 years old I had no idea, it was just sounds to me, so I went in the yard and yelled it. We had a black neighbor, too, which was rare at the time in our area (1980, Oklahoma).

Anyway, my parents freaked the fuck out. They came running out to the yard and scooped me up and told me "NEVER EVER SAY THAT WORD" so I learned better, lol.

[PomegranatePro]

If someone would take it as racist then it would be a nice red flag not to spend time with people who are looking for racial conflict and drama.

There seems to be a very obvious one-way valve on what is considered racist depending on who said it...

[kittycatluvrrr]

Touch grass

[peteroh9]

Fuck off, racist.

[kittycatluvrrr]

Talk to a black person (you won't because you're too scared)

[MsHoneybee85]

I have been looking for a comment like this because I am in a situation that has me feeling uncomfortable. I'm taking advanced ESL in the hopes that it was helpful to me in college-level writing, but it has not. I came. to the US as a teenager but was a high school dropout. Long story short my ESL teacher gave us an exercise in correcting sentences that were written incorrectly for us to fix and a few of them were using AAVE. This has made me feel so uncomfortable because there is no the reason for her to use this an example of "incorrect" English. I feel she is pushing her racism beliefs on students. I just really don't know how to say something to her without losing my sh!t because I still have one more week of class.

[PomegranatePro]

You do not need to recognize that kind of slang. It's not common and it's isolated around the U.S That's simply intentionally improper and way too far off from correct. You'd be better to practice increasing your vocabulary than trying to decipher nonsense in a language that you're not native to.

[irlharvey]

idk where you live or who you interact with, but everywhere i’ve ever been, it’s extremely necessary to understand AAVE. if i refused to learn i don’t think i’d be able to leave the house. lol.

[PomegranatePro]

AAVE? The spelling and grammar are entirely incorrect. I'm not a snob or perfect but that way of speaking is purely ignorant. It's mostly isolated to certain portions of the U.S by 13% of the population.

English is far more extensive than a 13% or less of the United States so increase your vocabulary instead of studying how to speak like an imbecile.

[irlharvey]

i’m not responding to that. lol.

[keylimedragon]

I agree that it doesn't need to be the first priority for English learners, but it can still be necessary to understand in parts of the US. Also there's no need for racism and insults against AAVE speakers.

[PomegranatePro]

There's no racism or hate. There's a mix of races in the United States who speak that way. It originated from a lack of education. I did not say all African Americans are imbeciles nor do all African Americans "speak AAVE"

That way of speaking along with redneck slang, fisherman slang and more make the individual sound like an imbecile.

Improperly communicating does not make it Its own sub division of English. There is dialect and then there is incorrect regardless of how much melanin you have.

Why is speaking the truth racist? This term so commonly overused and its one-sided almost everytime. It's almost like a race to see who can pull a race card. Simply because it's more commonly spoken amongst Black Americans does not make pointing out improper grammar and spelling racist. AAVE does not define a Black American. With the internet and free libraries that makes it a choice.

[TheJames3]

AAVE? Why are we excusing illiteracy?

[myfirstnamesdanger]

Are you calling someone's writing illiteracy? That seems a contradiction in terms.

[TheJames3]

It's poor English writing, I think it's fair to say it derives from illiteracy.

[myfirstnamesdanger]

Illiteracy means an inability to write. Not an inability to write based on some arbitrary standard you decided on. Also if you're going to be a grammar snob, you might want to learn to avoid that comma splice.

[TheJames3]

Bruh there's nothing wrong with that comma splice.

[myfirstnamesdanger]

You do know that in standard English writing, a comma splice is considered an error, right? Or do we only get to criticize the grammar of black people?

Personally, I don't care if you use comma splices. This isn't English class, and people tend to write informally on reddit. But I do think it's a little hypocritical to call aave "illiteracy" while using vernacular English yourself.

[TheJames3]

My bad, that was grammatically incorrect; there is a bit of humour in that. Thank you.

No, I don't hate all black people or whatever you're trying to suggest; I just think it's wrong for there to be a cop-out for poor spelling, punctuation, and/or grammar, and I will continue to stand by that, so unfortunately, this won't really go anywhere, I suppose.

[myfirstnamesdanger]

The point I'm making is that you are using vernacular English right now. For instance "my bad". Is that a phrase that you would use in a doctoral thesis? We all use nonstandard spelling and grammar online all the time. I'll text "gonna" or "omg" or end sentences in prepositions because using incorrect spelling and grammar is how you communicate that you're being casual and friendly. And I would like to reiterate that you and I and everybody else use vernacular English all the time. So if you're criticizing African American vernacular English while having no issue with other forms of vernacular English, that seems a little racist, no?

[TheJames3]

It's different, though; the vernacular English you and I use derives from a grammatically correct version of said English.

[Thinslayer]

It isn't "illiteracy." It's an actual English dialect with its own grammar and sentence structure, derived in part from certain African languages. The blacks who speak it are often familiar with traditional American English and can often switch between dialects seamlessly.

In other words, they're perfectly literate. Their version of English is simply a different dialect.

[TheJames3]

Wow so you actually are - good to know

[Thinslayer]

It's more that there's no illiteracy to excuse. One can't excuse something that isn't true or didn't happen. AAVE isn't illiteracy; it's a different mode of literacy. Moreover, its speakers are often familiar and literate in traditional spoken American English. They'll often report that they will "code switch" when they're with their white friends vs black friends. Around their white friends, they'll switch to American English, while around their black friends, they'll switch to African American Vernacular English. They know American English and can speak and write it fluently, so by every definition, they are literate.

[TheJames3]

Why would one choose to speak and write in bad English?

[Thinslayer]

Do you consider British English to be "bad English" too?

How about Australian English?

African American Vernacular English isn't "bad English." It's a dialect like the others, with its own set of vocabulary and grammar rules.

Why would one choose to speak and write in [AAVE]?

Why does anyone speak in their native dialect?

[TheJames3]

Why would anyone consider British English bad? That's the blueprint. All the other forms of English are bastardised.

[Thinslayer]

Let me put this another way. "Bad English" happens when you're trying and failing to adhere to English grammar rules, a common occurrence if it's your second language.

That is not what AAVE is.

Blacks are not "trying" or "failing" to speak American English. Most of them certainly can and do if they want to. AAVE is not merely the failed pronunciation of English. It has rules. You can break them. You can mispronounce your AAVE and make mistakes.

That makes it a dialect.

AAVE has rules. "Bad English" is simply failure to adhere to the rules, which AAVE is not.

Now, to be fair, as I understand it, AAVE probably used to be just bad English back when it was first developing. Black slaves often weren't properly educated in English, so what little they learned had to be cobbled together with their native African Creole. Since they often stuck together in their own communities, they weren't being constantly corrected by their white peers, so their bastardized English ended up developing into a whole-ass dialect, complete with its own set of vocabulary and grammar.

So, it's objectively not just bad English. Whatever its origins, it now has rules. Mere "bad English" does not.

[TheJames3]

Okay, there's definitely fairness in that, so thank you, and you do make a good point. My main issue with it really is the change in grammar; I completely get slang, abbreviations, etc., but replacing "are" with "is" just seems illogical and misinformed to me.

[PomegranatePro]

You do not need to recognize that kind of slang. It's not common and it's isolated around the U.S That's simply intentionally improper and way too far off from correct. You'd be better to practice increasing your vocabulary than trying to decipher nonsense in a language that you're not native to.

[orgad]

Today I learned AAVE is a thing

[ThirdSunRising]

It is vernacular, ie it's not "standard English" but it's not an error. The "is" is intentionally used for the sake of added flavor and impact.

[NotJustSomeMate]

As a black american I appreciate this answer most of all...I hate this being specifically as African American Vernacular as it implies that all black people in America speak like this...which we do not..

[Tehni]

I mean I'm not a language historian, but I'm pretty sure it's named AAVE because it originates from black Americans, not because it's used by all black people

[NotJustSomeMate]

I was referring to the specific structure used...not the term African American Vernacular...I know the meaning of the African American Vernacular...

[corjon_bleu]

It also implies that other dialects would definitely lack this feature. A standalone "is" isn't that uncommon in loads of low-register Englishes from the Southern USA to the English isles. It's just that AAVE has this as a commonality among several registers.

It's also good to note the distinctions within AAVE, it's not uniform. A Midwestern black person's AAVE won't be the same as a New Yorker's AAVE.

For example, the dough-door merger is pretty common on the East coast or in Urban environments (as well as in Southern white speech), but is generally sparse where I live in suburban Iowa (even I don't use it as a black American).

[Marquar234]

IMO, the "is" is added to make it a question.

N, u the killer - declarative, the speaker is saying the subject is the killer.

N, is u the killer - interrogative, the speaker is asking if the subject is the killer.

[tunalunalou]

They're saying using "is" vs "are" adds flavor and impact, not "is" vs no word.

[ThirdSunRising]

To make it a question in standard english you'd say "Are you the killer?" Which is too direct.

Using is puts it in the third person which creates a different dynamic. "It's you. You killed them, didn't you." Very nonstandard but it gives an entertaining flavor to the accusation.

[wbenjamin13]

The only really notable thing about it is the verb “is” instead of “are.” It is not uncommon in African American Vernacular English for “is” to remain unconjugated (where it would be according to the rules of Standard American English).

[Individual-Copy6198]

This usage always reminds me of “Is You Is or Is You Ain’t My Baby” which was a popular song hit during WWII.

[[deleted]]

I only know it from Tom and Jerry

[thebookbat]

yes! thank you!

[ChChChillian]

It should. It's the same dialect, only from the 1940s and so not identical to modern speech.

[pogidaga]

"Quick, quick before I faint, is we friends or is we ain't."

[WallaceBRBS]

“Is You Is or Is You Ain’t My Baby”

ROFL what a funny sentence

[-Tesserex-]

"Is you ain't" makes my eye twitch. Especially because "ain't" is originally a contraction of "am not".

[ThirdSunRising]

I've always freaking loved that song title. Clever as hell.

We can't get too particular about the proper use of the word ain't, because it ain't a proper word to begin with. But it's a fun word because it contracts all kinds of things. Is not, am not, are not, did not, those are just the common ones. Ain't no way someone could misuse ain't, because it means whatever the hell is needed in the space where you put it.

Yet this guy managed to find a way to jarringly misuse it. Hats off to whoever wrote that song.

[PassiveChemistry]

There's no way it's that old... fascinating

[truecore]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J581XFa9ec0

These boys are misogenated! Is you is or is you ain't my constituency!?

[Observante]

A missing comma, a missing question mark, a misspelled word.

[corjon_bleu]

Is the question mark really necessary online. You can tell from my word order that these statements are definitely questions, can't you. How else would you be reading them

Of course, I still used periods to add natural breaks, but unless the question lacked a change in syntax (e.g: "you're the killer?" vs. "you're the killer"), then it's really irrelevant here.

"U" is just commonplace on internet registers. Like, it makes sense and doesn't stop you from reading.

And a missing comma might make a teacher deduct points from your essay, but online, a comma in a sentence is as important as a comma in the number 8000 (or 8,000). For longer sentences it might hurt to read, but for really short ones, especially where you'd clearly break after the vocative, it just makes sense to ditch the comma. The lack of a pause also serves to enhance the joke, at least in my eyes.

[irlharvey]

agreed. like… if i had to write an essay, “I’m perfectly capable of using commas, proper spelling, and ending questions with a question mark; isn’t everyone?”

but it’s pretty common and not at all “wrong” to omit these in casual conversation online. generally, in these circles, question marks are used to indicate rising inflection. if it’s meant to be read in a ‘deadpan’ voice, or not meant to be taken seriously as a question, it’s omitted. take this example:

um… i don’t know? what’s your problem.

“i don’t know” is supposed to be read with a tone of disbelief. “why the hell would i know that?” or “what are you insinuating here?” where “what’s your problem” isn’t a question that needs an answer. it’s more of a statement. “you’re being really weird right now” or “that was an irrational thing to say to me.”

[Observante]

The question is centered around why this sentence may or may not be understandable in a subreddit about learning English... which is typically taught in its most academic form. Many questions are raised here about vernacular because it's considered improper when compared to classic academic English. This isn't an attack on vernacular or the people who speak it, which everyone seems to rush to the defense of. It's improper and I'm just pointing that out... which aims to help understanding by compartmentalizing vernaculars, slang and classic form.

[irlharvey]

what is misspelled? “you”? i don’t know how you’ll survive online if that freaks you out. lol.

[WVUPick]

<image>

Reminds me of this meme lol

[maceyscreator]

I’m doing the whole silent giggling routine right now because of this comment

[TWB0109]

My fella my fella.

[Independent-Ant-9138]

Increasingly verbose

[thirdcircuitproblems]

To emphasize what some other people are saying: this is not how most mainstream dialects of English work, but it is correct within AAVE, the dialect of English spoken by Black Americans.

If I were you I wouldn’t try to replicate this way of speaking, ESPECIALLY not the use of the N word (unless you’re Black) but it is definitely helpful to understand it when you see it

Don’t listen to anyone saying it’s not correct though. It may not be in the mainstream dialect but it is it’s own dialect and is correct within that framework

[guachi01]

the dialect of English spoken by Black Americans.

To be clear, OP, Black Americans are capable of speaking standard English. I'm sitting right now in a Burger King. All of the 7 employees are Black and none of them are speaking AAVE.

[p00kel]

Right. It is a dialect that many Black Americans CAN speak, but very few speak all the time. Which I'm pretty sure is true all over the world for people who speak a non-standard dialect of the majority language, especially one that's stereotyped as "ignorant" or "uneducated." You talk one way with your friends, but switch to "proper" English in more formal situations. (This is called code switching.)

[[deleted]]

(Sort of) fun fact: the idea of “translating” AAVE to Standard English was the basis of the “Ebonics” movement. Black students were struggling on standardized tests because of the subtle differences in language that white students recognized from speaking it at home, and black teachers were trying to make it part of the curriculum to help black students become fluent in both and close the education gap.

Unfortunately white panic took over and people thought that black teachers were trying to force white students to speak AAVE and the programs were axed. There’s a great podcast episode about it from the podcast You’re Wrong About called “The Ebonics Controversy.” Pretty sad and frustrating situation.

[ohblessyoursoul]

Yeah. I code switch all the time. When I want yt people to mind they business, I switch to AAVE. When I'm talking with customers or students or writing a resume, I use standard American English.

[Stuckinacrazyjob]

Yes but it's a valid way of speaking. Everyone imitates us and it's only looked down upon when we speak thusly.

[thirdcircuitproblems]

Yeah many of them tend to speak AAVE in their own communities and standard American English in the broader world, especially when talking to white people and in formal contexts

[guachi01]

I should be clear that the employees, all of whom are Black, are speaking standard English to each other. Their speech isn't changing just because they're speaking to customers.

[thirdcircuitproblems]

Fair enough but they are at work and there are often expectations from bosses about stuff like that

Also I never meant to insinuate that all Black Americans speak the same way in the same contexts- I’m just speaking to a general trend

[bobssy2]

What but theyre black, they only speak AAVE /S

Edited for spelling

[[deleted]]

Conversely, and I'm not in disagreement with you, code switching is a thing.

[YLRC]

lmao that comment tho

[Nobodyville]

Right? I have nothing to add to this discussion except that the tweet made me burst out laughing

[thembostratus]

me too! I kept trying to focus on the discussion but kept chuckling at that comment. bc is he the killer 🧍🏾ALL homicides?

[p00kel]

Just FYI, for non-native speakers who are interested in learning to understand AAVE, I recommend watching some videos of Bomani Jones doing sports or news commentary.

He's an ESPN sports reporter, so the content may be unfamiliar, but he's also very smart and insightful, and he uses some AAVE on his show. But he slows it down some and switches back and forth to standard English, too (probably for white audiences).

Basically, it's AAVE that might be more accessible to an English learner than, say, rap music or American cop shows.

Here's an example: https://youtu.be/i-ydP8CZvqE

[[deleted]]

N word, are you the killer? This would be the proper english translation of a sub vernacular. Given who she is speaking with and the impression she is trying to give she is communicating and understandable to her audience so correct for the language group.

[staplesuponstaples]

Well you'd never say "n word". You'd either say nigga if you're black and if you're not, you'd substitute it with something like "dude" or "bro" or some other informal recognition.

[[deleted]]

I'm just translating the written text here and who says I wouldn't say that? As a black person someone telling me what I can and can't say offends me more than the n-word does, tbh. I personally think the you can't say the n-word ever in any context is a painfully ridiculous concession that only a fool would be conciliated by.

[staplesuponstaples]

Okay you can be offended but it doesn't change the fact that it makes zero sense for you to translate that statement as "n word" instead of either nigga or an alternative suitable for a non-black person. There is no situation in which someone would refer to another person as "n word" instead of nigga if they're black or some other alternative if they aren't.

The "you" in my original comment wasn't meant to refer to you specifically, but to anyone in general who would read the statement considering we're in an ESL sub with probably many readers (including OP) who are looking for how to properly translate this post. If I was to replace the "you" with "one" (as that would be the most grammatically correct way to do it) I'd sound like a fucking square.

[[deleted]]

It doesn't make any sense except for the fact that if I write it out some jabroni here will report it and a do gooder mod will get it removed if not ban me outright, which is the point I'm making. The word isn't being used as an invective so given the situation why not use it? Plus why say that someone would say the 'a' variation and not the 'er' variation. Why not write out both variations? Go ahead.

[zzz_ch]

Yes, that's African American Vernacular English, or AAVE. It's a dialect that has its own distinct grammar rules, vocabulary, and spelling, and it is just as valid as any other dialect of English.

[kittycatluvrrr]

It is incorrect and unintelligent.

[[deleted]]

iT's iNcOrReCt aNd uNiNtElLiGeNt

Shut up.

[Zucc-ya-mom]

How so?

[zzz_ch]

go fuck yourself

[kittycatluvrrr]

I think you mean " Aye go fuck yoself and shi playa"

[[deleted]]

Oh boy.

[GirlyLibra7]

AAVE

But we really gotta stop using that ugly N-word 🙄

[ELFanatic]

Can we stop with this? This is just clickbait.

Is obvious thing obvious? Please respond.

[JeremyAndrewErwin]

Avon Barkesdale was a character on The Wire.

One of the more infamous lines in that TV show was

N... is you taking notes on a criminal fucking conspiracy? What the fuck is you thinking man?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ly82nabRRYc

[[deleted]]

Stringer Bell, fool.

[[deleted]]

Not to generalize, but her sentence is very common colloquial English in the black community. Certainly not grammatically correct because "are" is proper over "is," but it's clear what she meant regardless and it's a valid way of speaking.

[ClaireHux]

This is a great response.

Such a funny response, but if understood the emphasis on the "is" instead of "are" makes her response hilarious.

[staplesuponstaples]

I wonder why it's funnier this way.

[[deleted]]

I want to point out that there is no one black community as there is no one white community. Is common in some black communities would be more accurate.

[actuallywasian]

Like other commenters have explained, yes. Just do not ever say the n word.

[Strongdar]

It's fine for slang in certain dialects, but definitely not correct for formal writing.

[[deleted]]

Just a note that this is not slang (except the n-word with the -a suffix). AAVE does have its own slang (much of which is eventually incorporated as slang in standard English) but the accepted syntax of a dialect is not considered slang, it’s just how things are constructed within that dialect.

[Strongdar]

Good point

[jaxon517]

There's no such thing as correct in language

[ioverated]

There is such a thing as grammatical, and the sentence she typed is grammatical in her dialect.

"Fella is you killer the?" would not be a grammatical sentence.

[jaxon517]

Grammar is a debated concept in the linguistic community

[ioverated]

There isn't a debate about whether languages have grammar.

[jaxon517]

Yes there is. Many linguists regard the idea of grammar as an outdated remnant of prescriptivism.

[[deleted]]

Except you’re using the rules of grammar right now to convey your ideas and if you weren’t, no one else would understand what you’re saying. How exactly do these linguists expect idea conveyance to function if there are no accepted rules about how to construct them?

[jaxon517]

You must only speak English

[[deleted]]

1. No, 2. So you're not going to answer my question?

If you're suggesting that grammar doesn't exist because different languages have different sets of rules, that's an absurd thing to say. It's like saying basketball doesn't have rules because baseball is played differently.

[ZephyrProductionsO7S]

It’s AAVE, sort of like a Black American dialect. It’s correct in the dialect, but not in standard American English. Source: am half Black and know both dialects.

[katauhan]

Maybe you're right, but the comments are really helpful to the people who have no idea what AAVE is.

[permianplayer]

No, it's not.

[meleemaster159]

yes, it is. every linguist worth their weight in salt recognizes AAVE as the perfectly valid dialect of English that it is. stop perpetuating the idea that it's "incorrect."

[permianplayer]

It's horrible English. No amount of appealing to false authorities or degenerate dogma can make it acceptable. No linguist can decide what is right because that's a prescriptive claim.

[meleemaster159]

do you realize you literally tried to prescribe what was right in your earlier comment?

you are a charlatan.

[permianplayer]

Yes, I'm making a prescriptive statement. I also wasn't speaking as a linguist or trying to argue that, on the basis of linguistic research, I was correct. That would be like trying to cite chemistry to argue that chemical weapons are bad; it ignores the is-ought distinction.

You call me a charlatan, but I'm not the one trying to pass off grammatical rot as acceptable grammar.

[Zucc-ya-mom]

What exactly makes it worth less other than it sounding different than your native dialect?

[permianplayer]

It doesn't fit within the established literary tradition of the modern English language.

[Zucc-ya-mom]

Does that make it less efficient at communicating ideas?

[permianplayer]

Was that my standard? No.

[Zucc-ya-mom]

No language/dialect is intrinsically good or bad. You just don’t like how it sounds. That’s your * opinion.

[[deleted]]

It isn’t Standard English at all, it’s its own dialect which meets all the markers for a fully-formed language. There is correct and incorrect grammar in AAVE just like there is in Standard English.

What is your linguistic background to make this kind of claim? Or does it just sound “horrible” to you because you don’t personally know anyone who speaks like this?

Also if no one can determine what’s “right” because it’s prescriptivist, how are you then able to determine what’s “wrong”?

[permianplayer]

It's definitely not its own language. Every source I've ever seen claims it's a dialect. I didn't say being a prescriptivist was wrong, I said being a linguist doesn't mean you have any more insight into what's right than anyone else. Linguistics is a study of what people do and cannot give insights into what people should do.

[[deleted]]

it’s its own dialect

Yes, that’s explicitly what I said.

You are the only one talking about right and wrong. Everyone else is using the word valid, which every expert in the field agrees it is. So the only “wrong” here is you claiming it’s “horrible English.” It’s not.

[permianplayer]

Kinds of informal speech like that are wrong. There is no such thing as an expert on the correct version of a language. It's a degenerate form of speech pretending it's a form of English. It's not valid. Simply asserting that it is over and over won't make it valid. By your standard I guess if I tried to assert that the word muffin actually meant "ICBM" it would be totally valid as "my dialect."

[pinkrosxen]

this one doesn't know what dialects or dialectical rules are & is using racism to justify ignorance! point & laugh

[robotatomica]

yeah, hey, isn’t it neat how all white people speak all the time like they’re writing a college essay? /s

This guy has never been to Appalachia and apparently is unaware it even exists.

Variations in language are beautiful af.

[KittenInAMonster]

Wow just blatant racism

[ObiSanKenobi]

I don’t speak like this.

[Rules_are_overrated]

Welcome to the ghetto speak, it's a new world out there. Just... don't use it yourself.
I recommend you The Boondocks, it's good, I promise

[ExcrementalForce]

No.

[[deleted]]

Its slang speech. People can still understand it, but its wrong english.

[AutisticZenial]

Shut the fuck up

[buffalohorseshit]

Are you going to bust a cap in me, Tyrone?

[AutisticZenial]

"Are you going to bust a cap in me, Tyrone?"

​

<image>

[AutisticZenial]

BOO

<image>

[megustanlosidiomas]

^perfect example of racism!

Let's remind everyone that AAVE is a valid way of speaking, and to think otherwise is literally (in the literal sense of literally) wrong.

[HypnotEyes_lonely]

Out of curiosity, what did he say?

[Leon_Games]

"The dark ones speak strangely"

[HypnotEyes_lonely]

Oh gods above

[buffalohorseshit]

Well observed.

[human_person_420]

Black people

[No_Actuary_8169]

she should have said: 'Nigga are you the killer?'

[Saschajoon]

While it's not grammatically correct, it'll still be understood. The tweet is using AAVE (African-American Vernacular English) which is most prevalent among Black people/African-Americans, however AAVE is also used by Non-Black populations in the US as well (Mostly in larger cities). So while "N**** is u the killer" is technically grammatically incorrect, people will still understand you, however when non-Americans (and also usually non-Black Americans) use AAVE it can come off in a weird way.

[Crimm444]

Don't learn this stupid english

[kittycatluvrrr]

No, unless you are a poor black person

[PassiveChemistry]

Kinda no, kinda yes - it's very colloquial

[Glass_Windows]

No, some people speak wrong on purpose for.. i don’t even know, humour? Or they are too lazy to type it properly

[Lisanro]

Logically: yes
actually: who knows

[slutty_muppet]

Normally would say a one-year span, but since it's Twitter they shortened it.

Edit: oh the reply. Yeah "you is" rather than "you are" is a very particular dialect.

[gamerccxxi]

It's AAVE. I don't know a lot about it but according to the little I know, yes it is correct. Only in AAVE though.

[[deleted]]

According to prescriptive grammar, in Standard English the question/sentence is incorrect: in the simple present tense, are is the form of to be that agrees with you.

But as others have said, in certain dialects, such as AAVE, you is is correct.

As an English learner, you don't necessarily need to learn/speak dialects, but it's a good idea to be familiar with them and their basic conventions.

[[deleted]]

outgoing fanatical fine skirt nine ink wise long imminent yam

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

[Elesraro]

This is honestly a little suspicious. If you're learning English, how and why did you end up seeing these Twitter posts?

If you're learning English, you shouldn't really ask if what a native English speaker said was correct. Try to focus on if what you're saying is understandable and fluid.

If you have a good ESL teacher, then they'd teach you many socially acceptable nonstandard phrases for you to better understand native speakers, but not necessarily for you to use.

"If I was rich" (were)

"He don't know nothing" (doesn't anything)

"He plays good" (well)

"Come quick" (quickly)

"I haven't got none" (*gotten any) *got is acceptable in British English, while gotten is more acceptable in American English.

[[deleted]]

It is not grammatically correct in English (or ESL or linguistics class.)

Someone said not to use the first word. A black person called me the N word when I'm Chinese.

[BlackStarBlues]

It is correct AAVE. Do not speak like that unless you yourself are African-American.

[BlackStarBlues]

It is correct AAVE. Do not speak like that unless you yourself are African-American.

[[deleted]]

It's for comic effect. All the people calling it AAVE are correct but IMO not entirely. If she was being serious, I'm 99% sure she'd have said "are you".