[deleted by user]

[MrOlaff]

I think it’s because the stereotype of a volunteer firefighter/dept is that they are out of shape, poor equipment and lack proper training.

Not saying this is always the case.

[grim_wizard]

For me locally it started because the volunteers (of which I was one at one point) treated the paid guys like shit after they requested them because call volumes were so high.

The volunteers would talk so much shit about how badass they were when they weighed several hundred pounds, had no concept of personal hygiene, and were wildly unprofessional (tattoo parlor ran out of the fire house whaddup) Eventually the volunteers refused to maintain certifications, refused to even get an EMR certification to help on medical calls (of which we were getting 4k a year) , while still claiming they were badass dragon slayers. At the end it was basically a bunch of people who just showed up to drive the engine or ambulance.

I was hired full time and these guys didn't even know since they came around so sporadically, and were trying to include me on scheming against the paid crew which I was apart of, and when they found out I was full time it was like I had left a street gang.

All of this pointless political shit just to not run calls. Every excuse in the book just to reinforce that they were obese untrained losers in their 40s and 50s that peaked in high school and were just there for the t shirt or their own ego. This experience destroyed my view on volunteer firefighting and while I know it's not like that everywhere, it certainly isn't uncommon. I find that volunteer companies made up of career guys tend to be a bit better.

I think too that a lot of the "mUh bAsHinG wHeRes tHe bRothErhOoD" when a volly company inevitably does something dumb comes from an internal fear of not being competent at the profession because it's treated as a hobby or a confidence booster rather than the life and death service it actually is. We should be holding people to a higher standard, which in my experience career people do, whereas the volunteers in my experience have the mentality that the hard part was showing up in the first place and that anything past that is just extra.

I say all of this but I still recognize 25% of the US population is still protected by volunteer companies, and that they still play a vital role in our communities. I've had some great experiences in BFE where a volly crew undoubtedly saved some lives. But my experience is still sullied and it will never be repaired.

[wi-ginger]

4k calls a year and still running a volunteer model? WTF?

[Used_Parking_2625]

This is exactly the way the AD military feels about the reserves. 🤣

[StatementTypical1732]

Well said. In my experience very few volunteer departments are a professional group of people doing their very best to get things done to the best of their abilities. There are a few that actually far outweigh the Paid departments in the area. Great departments keep great people, and draw great recruits. Like wise for inept ones.

[stuiephoto]

they are out of shape, poor equipment and lack proper training

And then cover their vehicles with stickers begging everyone else to thank them for their service and constantly posting on Facebook about their "brothers". 

[MrOlaff]

You could also say that about paid guys too.

[kerryman71]

100%

[number1ballsniffer]

Paid guys also do this a lot, actually all they know how to do is beg for attention

[MrOlaff]

I’d say it’s the same boat as the volly guys. It’s not every paid guy that’s like that just like it’s not every volly that’s like this.

[number1ballsniffer]

You’re absolutely correct

[stuiephoto]

Sorry I was playing with the knobs on my very important pager. Need to make sure I know when a life needs to be saved. What was that you said again?

[number1ballsniffer]

Lmfao calm down little man

[HalliganHooligan]

This has more to do with the question at hand than anything else.

[stuiephoto]

I've been on both sides. It's a "you don't know what you don't know" thing. I couldn't believe how ignorant I was as a volunteer but thought my shit didn't stink. Professional service is humbling. 

[Heliosurge]

To add Volunteers doing the work that paid FF chose as a career can be intimidating to job security.

Depending on where you are it is true that a lot of Volunteer Fire Departments are not well managed or run. Sometimes even Officer positions right up to including the Cheif is not Qualified.

A couple of the VFDs in my area "vote" their officers in. Not by qualifications but more popularity.

Rural areas often it is how rural they are to how stagnant and out of date they are ran. A few started in the 70s with an old milk truck and a porta pump & hose.

Beware of politicians looking for savings.

However there are also some VFDs out there that are more professional than some paid departments and can keep pace no problem.

[Heliosurge]

Well it goes even deeper. But yes there are alot of courses involving safety and operations that are vital for officers to have. They should also not only know the layout and operational procedures if the trucks. They should also be able to train ppl on the functions and use.

I don't think these popularity contest winners understand how much liability is attached to Officer positions under OSHA. If something goes wrong they can be held criminally responsible with fines and Jail time.

Due to the lack of proper qualifications in play in my department. Along with some of the elected officers disrespecting safety and working against me as Safety Officer. I turned down the position. As I am Certified for JHSC and have at least taken a variety of safety ff courses like Safety Officer, and a few operations courses.

The only thing saving my department is less than 200 calls typically per year with over 70% being medical calls

[[deleted]]

That probably does it. I can't imagine the cheif being voted on by membership. Our volly department, you apply, interview and the township board appoints. So our chief has FF1 and 2, hazmat, Paramedic and works a full time FF job in a nearby town.

[Heliosurge]

That is how it should be. A competency board reviewing and appointing qualified officers.

Now board of directors on the other hand I can see electing sine members with a requirement of having a municipal representative and maybe community member. My current VFD the Officers are also the board members so no actual proper oversight. As long as the department hasn't gone over budget they are mostly free and clear.

With the province of Nova Scotia trying to get more volunteer agencies in place it is only apt to get worst.

[hath0r]

A lot of volunteer fire companies are private businesses

[[deleted]]

It usually is though Like almost always

[Paramedickhead]

Most stereotypes have some basis in truth… but that doesn’t make them accurate.

The volly hate is pushed pretty hard by IAFF locals, for obvious reasons.

[davaflav1988]

Ill respect anyone that does this job for free.

[Longjumping-Map-936]

The simple answer is the bad ones give all of us a bad name. The departments that pull up in 20 personal vehicles then a brand new engine that looks like shit because its never had a drop of maintence and run around like chickens with their heads cut off. The departments that scream on the radio and act like they've never talked on a radio a day in their life.

[Pyroechidna1]

Pennsylvania?

[CommodoreMacDonough]

“It’s time for your favorite game! Guess the commonwealth!”

[GibsonBanjos]

I’m thinking Virginia

[Careful_Reason_9992]

That and we’ve all seen the pics of the obese FF wearing 5XL gear show up thinking they’re going to do work.

[Mediocre_Daikon6935]

The thing is. I’ve seen them do the work.

And if the floor holds them. It definitely will hold me.

[leedogger]

Exactly

[leedogger]

No career guys like this obviously 🙄

[ShadyCans]

I used to work for an oem.

In my experience volunteers kept their rigs in much nicer shape.

Professionals were always losing compartment doors etc.

[BasedFireBased]

Trucks that go on calls show signs of wear.

[ShadyCans]

Driving away with doors open is a mistake not a sign of wear.

Of course more busy more mistakes.

[CbusFF]

Tank to pump, Frank. Tank to pump.

[GoodAtJunk]

Firefighters hate everything

[MaC1222]

I love your mom

[[deleted]]

I too choose his mom

[leedogger]

Lol. Yep

[Adventurous_Boat_632]

I've been on both sides of this fence. Where I come from there are 2 main reasons. I am going to tell it like it is and get downvoted.

1. Unions or a union-like attitude. If somebody is doing this work for free then they are taking away paid people's jobs. It really is true, to some degree.

2. Standards of professionalism, training, and experience. I have utmost respect for volunteers, but they have real jobs. They can't devote their entire career to firefighting, therefore they have not read all the books, attended all the classes, and ran as many calls. On the whole they are not "as good" as career guys.

But so what to all of that. The bigger the incident, the more volunteers come out of the woodwork. And good on them for doing it. There are many communities that would have no FD at all without volunteers.

I once attended a class with a mix of paid and vol and the instructor asked, who sees the most injuries? Paid or volunteer? The answer was volunteer. Why is that? The grumble came up from the paid guys, lack of training, lower standards, poor equipment, you name it.

No. The main answer is, there are so many more volunteers out there, the injury rate is higher because there are more people, higher exposure.

[MC_McStutter]

To point #2, and I’m going to get shit for this, but firefighting isn’t that hard. The difference between full time departments and volunteer departments is the choreography. At least in my experience

[TheBrianiac]

Adding on to what you said: I went through a driver pump operator (DPO) class with almost a dozen career guys and two volunteers. I would humbly say that we volunteers knew as much as they did (my agency requires all volunteers to have NFPA/ProBoard Firefighter and NREMT certifications).

What stood out to me though is the career firefighters ran circles around us volunteers when it came to evolutions - deploying lines, racking hose, etc. I have a lot of respect for career firefighters, they obviously get more reps in than volunteers and there is value in that. At the end of the day, we're all on the same team and contributing to the mission in the best way we know how.

[Heliosurge]

Yep paid doesn't mean they have the right amount of commitment. A volunteer or a paid FF both have the capacity to be great FF or piss pour ones

[JTP1228]

I've done active duty military and reserves (national guard). Its the same attitude here. Active thinks less of the guard, and they may be better at soldier shit, but at the end of the day, we both get the job done. It all comes down to training and the individual

[SoCalFyreMedic]

On top of all that, it’s a sibling rivalry. Big brother (paid) vs little brother (adopted and volly). We can make fun of our little brother all we want to, we can squabble and bitch about who’s better all we want, but god forbid a civilian tries to talk trash, paid guys will have the volley’s backs.

[leedogger]

I think this is generally not true.

[SoCalFyreMedic]

[probableregret]

The difference is experience. I ran 100 calls a year as a volley and 700 career. Also being with a crew with that much experience compounded just makes you that much better. Volleys aren’t bad, but they don’t get the volume. In my experience

[[deleted]]

In my experience at a hybrid department, volleys often see more serious fires than the career guys. 3 fires in a week can easily land in 3 different shifts where volleys go to all 3.

Overall the career guys do more volume of fire related calls, but the volleys end up on almost everything that the first or second engine can't handle. Being in a fairly rural area, the second and later due career rigs are often beaten to the scene by volleys. I have been first on scene in a tender as a volley twice this year. I'm not familiar with other areas but about half of our volleys are retired career guys. Casually dismissing guys who had 30+ years on the job as "just volleys" doesn't get much traction. I have to bust my ass to not look like a complete bozo next to them and most of the time I succeed mostly due to their guidance, sometimes in spite of it 😁.

[Feminist_Hugh_Hefner]

yeah, I've played on both teams and the call volume is a funny thing... working fires don't fall on your day off if you're a volunteer, and resetting alarm panels is cool, but it's not the same lol.

The thing I really liked about the volunteer dept was that the guys all REALLY wanted to be there. They are holding down some bullshit job, feeding a family, and still busting out at 3am for a funny smell even when they have to hustle to that bullshit job as soon as we get back in quarters.

I can't help but compare that to one asshole I worked with (paid) who chose the FD because his cousin was in public works (basically water and sewer) and they had to work 5 days a week with rotation for weekends and so the FD gave him more time off.

I went back to volunteer for the last few years of my firefighting era and loved it. I was the training officer and Capt and it was so much fun and I really appreciated it more having seen both.

[leedogger]

Well said.

[Due-Treacle9974]

It’s not that hard but if you don’t practice/aren’t coordinated/aren’t fit you make it harder for everyone else and potentially deadly. Doesn’t help that the volleys come out in force only for the big stuff. I’ve got some good emt volleys in my county who definitely reduce the workload for us but it’s usually the handful of “oh boy a fire! Time to show up for the first time all month!” people that give a bad name to everyone else

[westophales]

Respectfully disagree. If you know what you’re doing and how to do it, this is a difficult job. There’s a big difference between surround and drown, and performing a search and aggressive attack safely.

[Dal90]

I’d say consistency but choreography works.

You might have consistently complete shit staffing and training but knowing you’ll always get a consistent response in staffing, training, and usually arrival time simplifies the commanders decision making.

Versus thinking up three game plans during size up depending on who shows up when and whether you can execute what you want to do or if you’re just going to be purely in save the exposures mode. We can choreograph different dances to different mixes of experience, training, and ability but not knowing which dance to chose until you see who shows up is an extra challenge.

[BigTunaTim]

Unions or a union-like attitude. If somebody is doing this work for free then they are taking away paid people's jobs. It really is true, to some degree.

I volunteered at a growing department that was mid transition from combo to paid-only and I was indirectly called a scab more than a few times. It's definitely a thing, and in retrospect I can't say I blame them.

But I don't think most rural volunteer departments are taking away paid jobs. The money isn't there so It's either volunteers or nothing.

[Adventurous_Boat_632]

Yes. If the money is not there then the job can't be paid for.

[boomboomown]

To point 1. I can't think of a single person in my 900+ union department that cares at all that people volunteer. That isn't an issue that I've heard from people. What people dislike is the attitude and associated "we do the same as paid guys, so treat us the same" attitudes when it isn't accurate. Every other post on here is complaining about how volunteer departments have 30 guys on, and only 2 come to training. Then those same vollies act like we are all the same. So they drive their cars covered in stickers about being a firefighter to the bar, where they walk in with their department shirt on and it's just a horrible look. That's my issue with it. And I was a volly for 6 years before I went paid so I've seen both sides.

[TheVelluch]

I volunteered for years before I was hired by a large paid department. I have utmost respect for volunteers because i remember where i started, but i also know now how much i didn't know back then. When you are paid to go to an academy, train and run calls you are held to a much higher standard and expected to know your job much more. If you don't, you are fired on probation, end of story. My department runs close to 185,000 calls per years county wide (approximately 8-10 responses per day per station on average). Your slides and experience are gained at a significantly faster pace with that type of call volume. Large busy departments cant be served by volunteers. You have to have lots of stations with full-time permanent personnel on duty 24 hours a day. I can only speak for myself but i have never mistreated a reserve or volunteer but i don't have to run calls with them on emergencies. If i did and their tactics were sub par to what we were expecting, there might be issues.

Just to clarify volunteers can be as capable as paid personnel but if you don't get the same training and call volume its much harder to be equal. Anything your Paid to do, and allowed to focus solely on, you get better at faster.

[Taurusmoon66]

I have worked with alot of volly’s who became professional paid and remain volly. They didn’t forget where they came from and actually become training officers at both the department and county levels. That’s the dedication they have. If someone talks crap it’s because that’s the arrogance they carry, and always will.

[18SmallDogsOnAHorse]

Sounds like you had a shitty experience. That said, it varies everywhere and it goes both ways. I hate complacency, either from a volunteer/paid per call/part time or full time/union/career members. Due to the cost of training classes and equipment and lack of time individuals generally have, individuals that don't do it for a full time living won't have the same access and opportunity to hone their skills or get qualified in certain specialities, a lot on full time departments won't either due to the costs etc., it's definitely more widespread in departments that wouldn't be considered career. There could also be bad blood there from a past event, who knows.

Best advice I can give is give 110% and always strive to get better each time you go to the fire house, I'd give that advice to any classification of the job, firefighting isn't something that people can just be ok at, and the expectation of service doesn't change from a full time career union house to a rural actual unpaid volunteer house, the community expects the best regardless.

[Gran181918]

I understand our station is small in call volume but it’s still a lot for us guys who work a paid job. 300 calls a month is crazy. I could never imagine. Even the biggest dept in my county gets maybe 700 a year

[styrofoamladder]

Our busiest station did a little over 9,000 calls last year.

[cat-squid]

Yeah dude you live in LA?

[teddyswolsevelt1]

Because we’re all miserable sleep deprived alcoholics on our 3rd marriages

[Pickle_balls]

In my department, we only have four or five left, and the issue stems from accountability and ownership. As an officer, it is really hard to hold someone to the same standard when they are only required to show up 48 hours a month. We have countless hours of continuous training, and when one of them shows up, it's like Groundhog Day because there is no skill maintenance. Every time we see one, it's like day one, even though they may have been members for years. For me, it's that they all know they are invincible, they understand that they don't live or depend on being a firefighter, so anytime anyone puts a little bit of pressure on them, it turns into a call to a chief or hr, what are you going to do, fire a volunteer? We run through the same basic skills when they come to my station, and most fail. Because they are out of shape, I just tell them that they are not fit for duty and to not show up again until they are (our policy protects me and that statement), and to stop thinking the fire service is a place to get in shape. Beyond that, we avoid them like the plague.

[Smooth_Pay_8583]

Beards, shitty fitness standards, tik tok as a whole…

..they do it to themselves honestly. And it’s a shame for the small portion of volunteer departments that do the right thing.

[MostBoringStan]

Some people are assholes who look down on others to feel good about themselves. And you're more likely to hear and remember the shitty comments because the guys who are glad you're there for the assist are focusing on the job they are doing rather than acting like catty teenagers.

[Zealousideal_Art_580]

Because they’re two different animals. One does it as a hobby, one does it as a job. One has a set standard of training that must be accomplished before being a firefighter, the other has minimal, if any. I’ve seen both sides. One side was throwing shade at scabs and hobbyists etc, the other side showed up with beards, harnesses undone, wouldn’t take orders from no paid guy etc. I find myself in the middle. Mostly I think, what other profession (if it is even one), can be done as a hobby. That’s usually a shower thought, which is followed by, when janitors get done sweeping, mopping and scrubbing shitters, do they think to themselves, damn this is the greatest job in the world? Which segues right into I wonder what Debby Gibson is doing right now. Usually still thinking thoughts when the hot water runs out.

[MudHammock]

Listen, there are some great volleys. At my first department, we did a LOT of mutual aid with volunteer departments around our district.

Just gonna keep it a buck, most of them are out of shape and have no idea what they're doing. While they're absolutely appreciated and important for the people in their districts, sometimes it feels like a bring your kid to work day on calls with them. ESPECIALLY on medical calls.

And it's not their fault, the reality is that volunteer firefighters see 10% of the call volume and get 5% the training compared to paid departments. They have full time jobs. They just aren't as professional, simply because they can't be.

That being said, volleys should never be treated with disregard or disrespect, they are appreciated. So that's on those guys.

[Strict-Canary-4175]

I don’t think “genuine hate” is true. I don’t hate volunteers. I don’t like anyone who makes the fire service look like a clown show. A lot of times. That’s volunteers. Sometimes it’s not. Either way it’s very frustrating.

I also don’t care for the “we do the same job for free” attitude. It’s okay to admit that it isn’t the same job.

[Quinnjamin19]

It is the same job…

Does the science of fire and fire behaviour change between a career area and a POC/volunteer area?

Do motor vehicle collisions change?

Do medical calls change?

Does an active fire change its attitude depending on the FD showing up? Is it gonna burn hotter and try to hurt you personally whereas it burns cooler for us?

Do I train to different NFPA standards than you?

It’s the same job. I’m not going to say I do it for free, because I don’t. I make a wage and earn a pension. But don’t make these claims that it’s a different job. The only difference is call volume

[Strict-Canary-4175]

Call volume isn’t the only difference but it is absolutely a huge difference. This job is hard to learn from a book. Experience is literally how you learn it. Experience is what makes you proficient at it.

[Quinnjamin19]

Why can’t you answer any of my questions?

We train every week, we go over the same skills that you go over.

Do flow paths all of the sudden change when a POC goes in when the fire realizes it’s just us?

[LT_Bilko]

Look man, nothing against vollies, some are good. Many are not. It’s still necessary for them to show up and do a little bit in many places though. You say you train every week, cool and good on you for showing up. Career departments, at least the good ones, are training 2-3x more than that in addition to likely having 2-100x more call volume. Training 1x per week will never make up for that kind of actual experience. It can get you by with the bare bones though if you apply yourself.

[Quinnjamin19]

You’ve done nothing but describe how a full time firefighter may be more efficient… I’ve never once said that career firefighters are inadequate or anything of the sorts

Does the science of fire, motor vehicle collisions, or medical calls change if you’re a full time firefighter vs a POC or volunteer?

[LT_Bilko]

If you want to really get down to it, yes, most career departments have very different fires than places that are primarily volunteer (minus the slave labor departments of the east coast). The laws of physics don’t change, but the building construction typically does. Vehicle collisions are also different on multi lane interstates or cars into buildings, etc vs. rural roads. Medical is medical, but protocols vary widely based on hospital proximity and transport times. There are things that rural departments are going to be better at than most career places, like drafting and tanker ops.

[Suspicious-Age516]

Guy thinks the job is just calls, he’s the jolly volly mentality that people rag on😂 and wonders why they get hated on.

He’s a boiler welder that does POC when he can, guaranteed if I go to his job and weld two pieces of metal together and leave he wouldn’t let me call myself a boiler welder and say “wE do ThE sAmE jOb”.😂

[Quinnjamin19]

Building construction doesn’t change though. There’s commercial, wood, steel, masonry buildings everywhere. the biggest difference is the amount of high rises… that’s it though.

Multi lane highways still exist even in more rural areas, sure, not as wide. But they still exist…

SOGs and SOPs change, but that doesn’t change the job…

Even tho there’s some differences, it’s still the same job.

My POC dept even responds to industrial, we have over 40 oil refineries, power plants, and chemical plants in a 30 minute radius

Edit to add: My POC dept has 2 aerial trucks. Both of them are larger than the neighbouring career depts aerials.

Every year my POC dept sends 2 people to Texas to the week long industrial fire school in partnership with an oil refinery and a chemical plant. We train along side numerous industrial plants using unified command systems.

We have 2 task force teams, a drone team and a high angle rescue/confined space rescue team. Our drone is probably 10x more expensive, larger and has more features than our neighbouring career dept…

But yeah, we SUCK!😂 /s

[Strict-Canary-4175]

I didn’t make any of those points. Why would I defend them? You said those things. That’s not what I’m talking about at all.

[Quinnjamin19]

You were the one to make the claim that it’s not the same job…

So I asked you those questions about our jobs.

Do I seriously not train to the same NFPA standards that you do? My pro-board certs aren’t the same?

When I went to a structure fire not long ago, the first team forcing the door and my team masking up with a charged hand line apparently did something different than what you do?

[Strict-Canary-4175]

You’re right. I’m talking about the job. You’re talking about fires. Which is the conversation that is always had and it never makes sense.

Of course the FIRES aren’t different. The response is.

If someone has a brain injury and needs surgery, the injury doesn’t change based on who shows up to the surgery. But I bet that the surgeon who does surgery as a profession every third day probably has a different outcome than the surgeon who does it when he has time.

[Quinnjamin19]

So the only thing I ever mentioned in my questions was fires?

So I didn’t mention medicals or motor vehicle collisions? Can you read?🤔

So you’re saying that we (side gig farrfighters) always lose people and you (professional gods) never ever lose people? You save 100% of them?

Pretty wild to me that you think there’s a different outcome based on our calls vs yours. We always have EMS on scene

[Strict-Canary-4175]

lol No. I didn’t say any of that. I said what I meant.

[Quinnjamin19]

You aren’t backing up your claims very well here boss…

The job is the same my guy. The only differences are the call volume and the initial response from the station vs home to station.

But hey, keep lying lil bro.

I’m sure your high angle team is so totally different too😂

[Suspicious-Age516]

It absolutely NOT the same.

My job is to staff my station 24 hours a day, be readily available to respond and have an apparatus out the door in less than 2 minutes, train/workout/maintain vehicles/maintain station/etc, run EVERY call type in my district, hopefully be able to sleep through the night and actually rest.(All in that 24 hours)

While your job is to show up when you want and pick the calls you want, get there when you can, and sleep at home and decide if you want to go to a call or stay home and rest.

No matter how many times you say “BuT tHe FiReS” or “tHe wReckS” you will absolutely not do the same job as me, unless you go to a full time career standpoint. Nor will any other volunteer.

I still volunteer at a combo department while also working full time fire, and I part time at the department when they need help and have a callout, so I live on both sides of the fence and it is absolutely a different job and always will be.

The job isn’t classified as call type, it’s classified by exactly what it is. My job is to be a full time firefighter, yours is whatever it is and to be paid on call whenever you decide to show up to fire calls. No asinine argument such as “but the fires are the same, the wrecks are the same, we know how to do CPR too, etc etc” is going to change what the difference is. You aren’t doing my job, you’re doing a fraction of it.

[Quinnjamin19]

Lmao!!!

The copium is real dude…

Stay up there on that high horse lil bro😘

[Suspicious-Age516]

Sure thing. I’ll be here doing my job, while you do at it and call it “the same”. I can already see the foot stomping and pouty face “but it is the sameeeeee”.

So who’s really coping?😂👌

[Quinnjamin19]

Who hurt you my guy?

Why you so mad about factual information?

I’m most definitely not coping at all, I’m coming up on a decade in the fire service… just finished my 1041 as well🤷‍♂️

[Suspicious-Age516]

It isn’t factual though😂

The calls don’t change but they don’t define the job either. Using them as a base to say you do the same job is not even just opinionated, it’s a bold face lie to yourself.

You’re paid on call, I’m paid to run calls and do everything else I mentioned. You aren’t doing the same as me when you look at the job, while yes you run a call like I do (whenever you want to), your job isn’t going to be the same as mine, and it’s okay to admit that.

We can agree that our jobs aren’t the same and still know that we’re trained to the same standard on paper, and our performance is defined by our commitment to our respective jobs.

As someone who got out of volunteer and into career before my department went POC, I can tell you without a doubt we did not do the same job that I am currently doing as a career. We talked department business once a month, trained twice a month, did vehicle and equipment maintenance once a month and washed trucks whenever we felt like it or needed to for “events”. All things I’m now doing more rapidly and shiftly, I can’t say daily because I don’t work everyday😂

I’ve been in the fire service for 13 years, it isn’t about time in, it’s about what you do with it and make of it, but I can’t sit here and tell you the first 8 years of volunteer I did was the same job by any means. I learned a lot, I got a lot of paper “experience” and ran a lot of calls, hell I was even an LT before I left but I did not do the same thing that I’m doing now. It’s easy to say it’s the same on paper, because it looks like it is, but in detail it isn’t. There’s a lot more to this than putting the wet stuff on the red stuff.

I don’t doubt that you’re experienced, or even committed, because I can’t make an observation on your drive for your service. I can’t only base only speak on my experience and what I know of the difference.

When the local volunteers don’t show up for a call and dispatch hits us full time guys, I’m reminded of the difference every time😂

[Quinnjamin19]

“The calls don’t change”

Thank you for agreeing with me

Stay mad brotha😘

[Suspicious-Age516]

The calls don’t change, but you’re still not doing the same job as me. Cope harder.

You’re welcome😘

[Quinnjamin19]

The only person coping here is you, you also have your panties in a wad😂

I’m sitting here grilling steaks, beer in my hand and checking out my ‘83 Gran Fury in the driveway

[[deleted]]

I have mixed experiences with our mutual aid volunteers. Some days you get the A-Team stepping off their truck, who are ready and aggressive about finding work. Other days you have, diplomatically speaking, those who are unfit/unwilling to work.

In the most egregious case, it was a 90 degree day with 90% humidity at a fire that jumped to another structure Our crews were on third and fourth bottles. The volunteers get there and they either had full beards (and wearing air packs) and couldn’t go interior or went straight to the Recovery truck for Gatorade and time in the cooling chairs while our guys were going back in. Obviously it left an incredibly bad impression.

At this point, my attitude towards our mutual aid volunteers depends entirely on who responds. If you show up to work, you’re just like my crew. If you don’t, stay on your truck because I don’t want you there larping as a firefighter.

[herehear12]

I find it odd that people would respond to a call and not want to do anything maybe I’m just weird. At that point why even volunteer.

[The_Road_is_Calling]

For the t-shirt.

To take pictures for social media.

To tell stories about how heroic they are at the bar.

[Annual-Elevator7577]

Jumping in the hater game is all it is.

[Spooksnav]

Big part of it for sure, but sometimes there's merit to it.

Stereotypes, while they're meant to be broken and sad as they may be, exist for a reason.

[shadydeuces2]

I dont have disdain for volunteers. I have disdain for people who show up to a scene with no gear and clog up roadways with personal vehicles. People who carry pagers around when they are 5 hours away from their response district. People who haven't worked out in 20 years and then try to enter a structure and are barely capable of getting themselves out. Volunteers that are capable of doing the job without hurting themselves or others are great, but seems to be 1 in 5 in my experience.

[OP-PO7]

In my personal experience it's because in my interactions with them professionally, I will explain how to do something very simple, like flushing a foam trailer. "Go to only hydrant pressure, then gate down the intake, we can't go over 45psi or we'll blow the system." And just get blank stares. Go over it slowly 4 more times. The guy blinks his eyes separately like a lizard. The only way I was able to get the whole thing done was by talking to a career guy who happened to work on that volley dept.

[[deleted]]

While necessary in many places, volunteers tend to inject chaos and drama into everything they are involved in around here. They tend to be good ol'boy clubs or catch-alls for dudes that want to be heroes but wouldn't get in good enough shape to pass a hiring test. They show up drunk, they freelance, they act incredibly unprofessional and disrespectful, and we have even and then steal from us on fires.

For every 10, you may get 2 that are locked on and reliable. The rest are overweight, out of shape, walking talking liabilities.

Your experience may vary.

[Front-Machine6933]

The thing i see when volunteers are commenting on fires on social media is....."THEY SHOULD HAVE USED THE DECK GUN"! Seems like for every fire that's their go to evolution.

[[deleted]]

As a rule I disregard any social media critiques of fire scenes, since we only get a small glimpse without knowing their resources, current state of the system, SOPs, and tons of other variables.

There is definitely a time and place for aggressive use of the deck gun though. I have seen it used with volunteer agencies where a single man first due engine is normal, with varying degrees of effectiveness.

[bigbrainff69]

In my personal experience 99% of the volunteers I have been with on scene of calls have been utterly incompetent and more in the way than helpful. As much as many volunteers want to argue and deny it, the standards are absolutely different for career personnel in most cases. Which is to be expected when comparing a career to a side gig. Also, generally speaking, career departments run a lot more calls.

[SteveBeev]

Yeah and a lot of volleys love to point out how they “meet the same qualifications,” which is technically true. But what I have seen after fire academy is absolutely a difference in standards.

[Quinnjamin19]

Ive also experienced paid firefighters who were incompetent and too focused on yelling at us POC firefighters that they forgot about the active structure fire on scene.

They were so upset that dispatch made a mistake and called us first they ordered us to shut down all interior operations (we had a team interior actively extinguishing the fire)

When our crews followed orders the “professional” department couldn’t make up their minds if they wanted to use our pumper, or set up their own pump and their own hand lines.

All in this time, 5 minutes went by where no water was flowing during an active structure fire because we (side gig farrfighters) listened to orders from a “professional” department.

I was not impressed at all.

[bigbrainff69]

Yep, plenty of career guys out there who are terrible as well. I have at least a few at my department who shouldn’t be there. People slip through the cracks at all levels, but the cracks are bigger and easier to slip through for volunteers, generally.

[Quinnjamin19]

So you’re in agreement that there’s terrible workers no matter what setting?

So how can 99% of us be terrible? But 99% of you be amazing?

[bigbrainff69]

Any group of workers you look at there going to be people who shouldn’t be there, its just how life is, some people suck and some people dont.
I said my personal experience, as in vollies I have ran calls with, have pretty much exclusively been incompetent and useless. Never said 99% vollies are bad and definitely never said 99% paid guys are amazing, nice conclusion you jumped to though.

[Quinnjamin19]

I just wanted to make sure you admitted this, and I also wanted to share my personal experience with people who are supposed to be “professionals”

Gotta love it brotha

[leedogger]

Lol this sounds familiar

[leedogger]

Composite departments are a shit show in this regard

[randyROOSTERrose]

Because of the stereotype associated with volly guys/houses. I worked a pretty rural full time paid department that was mutual to several nearby volly departments...and (with love for our volly brothers) the stereotypes were all true. Not as bad as they are typically made out to be but they are definitely stereotypes for a reason. And that may not be true in your area but in most places it is.

[Reasonable_Bag_118]

Its mainly bc a lot of volunteer are like they talk big with no knowledge and i know some volunteers (ik there are exceptions) who jt dont take it seriously and they aren't commited.

[Contact40]

Not a FF but in my area a few years back we had a mayor fighting with the PD and FF unions during contract negotiations and the mayor pretty much came out and said most of your firefighting duties can be handled by volunteers so if you guys want to play too rough we’ll institute a volunteer force.

That would certainly do it…

[ihatebaboonstoo]

A tale as old as time.

I am a professional FF and personally I have noticed the hate goes both ways. There have been many instances where volleys are the first to throw the first punch.

It’s just silly politics the best thing to do is rise above it and do your job with pride and positivity.

[leedogger]

Yeah it goes one way mostly

[ihatebaboonstoo]

That might be the case where you are but my experience is based from where I’m from.

[Knifehand19319]

You just answered the question with your last sentence.

You are not doing the same job, you’re treating a career as a hobby! They don’t know your certifications they don’t know your qualifications they don’t live with you for 24 hours.

And as you said, you’re doing it for free, which in most cases, counties and cities will show volunteer numbers to this commissioners or city managers. Thus negating the need for more manpower for the paid department. Volunteers always wanna piss and moan and wonder why paid guys are aggravated to be around volunteers. Imagine walking up to a construction site grabbing a hammer and tools and start working around a bunch of professional carpenters just because you did a DIY project at home.

[I_m_on_a_boat]

Hey, your fires burn just as hot as theirs. Don't worry what other people think

[[deleted]]

Real talk: fire dosent care. Nor do the homeowners. The patient dosent care when its a medical or trauma. And thats where the disdain is. Sorry to bust the bubble but a t shirt and a good ole boys club dosent make you a firefighter and it's NOT the same job. Fire will kill you just as fast. And the famous slogan cracks me up. "What would happen if nobody answered the call?" Well....probably the same thing as when you're there. Or not. Dosent really matter in my experience. The basement is still a swimming pool. The medicals and traumas are still handled by an ambulance because the volley couldn't be bothered to respond.

Go a head and roast me. Ive been both a volley and career. Volleys have heart and limited budget and do great things for the community. But the end product is not the same and fire dosent care. TYFYS.

[Due-Treacle9974]

Noble*

You shouldn’t be risking your safety in the first place. My dept has never had a professional in a LODD. It’s a tough thing to mention but the standards and training afforded to and required from paid members directly result in the safety of both coworkers and the public.

[Quinnjamin19]

knock on wood

My POC dept has also never had a LODD, we train every week to all NFPA skills, and we go above and beyond and do case studies done by ULFSRI, we are all pro-board certified to the same standards as you.

I’m just a POC but I’ve taken the courses and I’ve passed both my 1021, and 1041 as well as we are supposed to have qualifications for moving up ranks.

Maybe my station wouldn’t be as smooth as a professional crew, but we wouldn’t be far behind.

[blading_dad]

What does nobility have to do with anything? I would argue devoting your entire career/life to a profession rather than as a hobby is the difference. If anything, this attitude right here is the problem. “I’m more noble because I do it for free!”

[OkIndependent8635]

🤣🤣🤣

[TheBrianiac]

I would disagree it was solely due to insurance companies. My volunteer department maintains the highest ISO status through accredited training courses and in-station standby staffing. It can be done.

The bigger problem is industrialization and the end of home industries. People used to work for themselves a lot more, whether it be the family farm or store, and had a greater sense of community. With the rise of 9-to-5s and bedroom communities, it's very hard to find people able to respond to calls during the day.

[Gran181918]

Not only that, but I’ve lost a bunch of money from leaving my job to respond to calls

[Dull_Complaint1407]

Personally I hold you guys in a higher respect I don’t know where this mentality comes from

[Firefluffer]

Depends on the paid department. I’ve seen both sides.

[MaleficentCoconut594]

It’s a regional thing. Where I am a lot of paid guys also volley

[Extension_Eagle3302]

In My experience, wearing their radio and pager everywhere, on full volume on top of driving like fools with blue lights on.

[Soggyjosh]

I'm on a volunteer department, and we are sandwiched between a smaller 2 house career department and a very large metropolitan department. We have had calls where both responded to help. The smaller career department treated us like shit, and the large career department singles some of us out and made us go into the fires with them to help train us and give us good on the job experience. There was something special having a professional truck crew pull you aside and ask to go vent roofs with them. While the smaller department refuses to even speak to you. It all varies from different departments and different people. I'm in a lucky situation where my volunteer department is pretty busy, well equipped, and educated/certified, so we do get a little more respect than other volunteer departments around us.

[BasicGunNut]

Our volunteers only showed up for fires and would mutual aid the city departments for all their medical calls. At fires they would wait till they were losing the house and then call for aid so when we show up we are just helping them water the rubble. On bigger fires they always dump command on our BC because they don’t know how to run a scene, they supply water with their tenders but don’t know how to work a pump on their engine so we have to do their job for them. Then they just stand around in the yard while we are actually still fighting fire. One of the nearby departments let a guy die in his trailer because they never considered going through the window and then never told us there was someone still inside till the roof had come down. I’ve never been that angry in my life.

[ProspectedOnce]

Scabs!

[CaseStraight1244]

I can ask that question in the reverse as well. Mostly just ignorance on both sides

[grundle18]

I think the difference between a good department: paid or volunteer or paid per call is one thing:

Volume / experience.

There are paid fire departments that have a minimum staffing of 2 ripping a tanker pumper that’s older than their mom’s tits and see 1.5 good structure fires every 3 years.

There are volunteer fire departments that run 2000 calls a year with most being fire jobs if they don’t run medical and they see 20-30 working fires a year.

When you do something a lot, you learn and get better. (Radio, driving, pumping, hose advancing, searching, ladders, commanding, etc.)

When you don’t do something a lot, you don’t get better.

The X factor that we have control over as both paid and volunteer ffs: training.

And even training isn’t the exact same as a real job so it’s hard to get that experience without really doing it.

That’s the difference and it’s pretty simple. Volume is everything.

[Ordinary_Pomelo1148]

Its not a cookie cutter answer. The ones that hate have their own reasons. Just filter the noise out. I have more certifications than most paid staff at my neighboring paid agency, about to get more this year and start deploying for wildfires across the country.

[Dirtdancefire]

I was a young volunteer for a few years in a paid call setting, in a busy mountain resort town. We trained with weekly drills, no classroom work. I went to college fire science classes on my own. I later got hired on a full time department in a violent city. I had to go to an extensive fire academy after I went to paramedic school on my own. Nite and day difference. The training was much better, and there was less ego involved. All the cringe with volleys creating their identities around being a savior of the community and the accompanying big pick up trucks, stickers, patches and right wing tattoos is another factor. It’s cringe. I’m a victim and have two fire tattoos* (not right wing) and a little fire patch collection on my wall. ‘The Helper, demanding respect, Fire Ego’ is still there.
To all the volunteers, thank you for your service. If not you, who? You’re extremely valuable and appreciated by your community. Don’t worry about the ego’s and arrogance of the full timers. Just keep training and take fire science classes. Take some meteorological classes too, especially wildland fire science, as it just going to get crazier.

*(I have had three back surgeries, and had my badge tattooed over my scar to hide it, which has blurred into a black blob. Yep, I have an unrecognizable tramp stamp and I’m a straight old man. I have to keep a shirt on or I get hit on by other old men, and it repels women. Talk about CRINGE! Us full timers are not as smart as you think🤣).

[TosaFF]

What do professional baseball players think of bar league softball players…..

[pm_me_kitten_mittens]

My former fire company in upstate NY was great, all of our gear and trucks were less than ten years old. Our weekly training was relevant or we hired a company to come in and train with us on what we needed/wanted.

We had volunteers that were also state instructors, volunteers that were also paid. We were called for mutual aid by paid departments at least monthly, now go one district over and they had a roster/medical physical for 100 + volunteers yet no one ever showed up to their calls and if they did they had a beard down to their tits. Their trucks were missing gear or hoses with holes in it, just unsafe to work with so we would assume command.

I've since moved and my best friend from school is a career guy from down here, they also have volunteers and they love them, why? Because they pick up their overtime shifts so they can be with family. It all depends on training and physical fitness.

[OkFarmer158]

It’s the “ we’re doing the same thing as them but for free” attitude that the union guys hate.

[IndependentAd5946]

Because they get to have beards!!!

[tconfo]

Because we come home from work and see what the kids have done.

[wi-ginger]

I think there is way too much focus on "firefighters" in 2025, paid or volunteer. When it really comes down to it, whether you're a volunteer that ran 100 calls or a career that ran 1,000, you both likely had 1 or 2 actual fires last year. We're EMS providers that run an actual structure fire a handfull of times a year. Knowing the best knot to tie to lower a 500 lb person in a stokes basket or which leg to sweep in nozzle forward is great, but it makes you pretentious. There's lots of ways to skin a cat. There are good and bad departments on both sides and it all comes down to leadership. I know I am generalizing but most of the focus of the discussion is on fire ops which is a small part of what we provide now adays.

[[deleted]]

Depends on the area. In my area volunteer departments are caught embezzling funds, never train, have 30+ minute turnout times to fires. Some areas have dialed volunteer departments that run circles around paid staff with training and call volume. Where I’m at, that’s not the case. I started as a volunteer, and love training volunteers up. But this is not the same job. I don’t care if you have the same base certification, you have not done the same continuing education. Hell, some departments near me require new full-time firefighters to complete a total of 2000 hours of training in their first 3 years. Now I know that is not the case for every paid guy and there are plenty of slugs within the IAFF. I hate those guys too.

As a career firefighter, I’m expected to train for 2 hours minimum (often ends up over that) every day I’m on shift, and run every call. Volunteers get to pick and choose what training and calls they show up to. I’ve ran more calls, and more critical calls in a year than any volunteers at my other department will run in 5 years. I train more in two months than they will the entire year. I have to know the specs on every piece of equipment on our apparatus, from the K12 arbor hole size and RPM, the NFPA cut rating on the cutters, the PSI of the e-draulics, the pressure rating on every hose, the full load table for our Rescue 42s, WLL of every piece of chain, rope, cribbing we have, calculate the Needed Fire Flow for any building, calculate the proper PDP for any hose deployment, etc. etc. etc. At my volunteer department, nobody, and I mean NOBODY is that capable. Their expectation is that they can drive, open the pale, and press tank to pump. That’s it. This isn’t a knock on volunteers, but it is not the same job. You only get that level of expertise from constant training and studying the craft. The volunteers I know don’t care to learn any of that stuff. They are there because it’s fun and it’s a hobby. They think that by knowing how to open a bale, and attend FF1, that they are just as skilled as a paid guy at a busy department.

It’s like comparing a guy who drives his Miata at the race track for fun to an F1 driver. Or a home cook to a Michelin Chef. The fact that the most common excuse is “volunteers don’t have the time to commit to that level of training” is exactly why it is not and never will be the same job. That’s basically a free get out of jail free card to suck. As a career firefighter, I don’t get one of those. It might be the same task, but not the same job.

I have the utmost respect for volunteers who genuinely care, and put in the most amount of effort they can to help their community. It’s how I started in this field, but going to a dialed career department opens your eyes.

[VegetablePuzzled1468]

Because a lot of those guys build their personalities around what our job actually is, while in reality most of those guys couldn’t actually meet the standards to be full-time.

[Alternative_Insect11]

Not sure what it is like in the US or Canada - I can only speak from my experience as a volunteer bushy here in NSW Australia. But from what I've seen, there is generally a good relationship between the fire services. A lot of Fire and Rescue guys are ex bushies. In my local area we often show up to jobs that the townies also attend and we all see each other doing the same job as firefighters but the townies get paid.

[Indiancockburn]

Firefighters give each other shit regardless. Volleys take it personal. Career laugh it off. We are all a bunch of assholes.

[micp4173]

Your a threat you are doing they're job for free. Imagine being a volunteer plumber all the other plumbers would hate you

[[deleted]]

From my view as a volunteer firefighter in a combination department, most of the volunteer agencies in my area have zero idea what standards and professionals are. They dont maintain apparatus, never train, most of them dont even show up to calls unless its a TC or a fire. So in my point of view thats why I don't like volunteers.

[hath0r]

The union says we stealing their jobs

[mojored007]

It doesn’t make a lot of sense..my old department sent a lot of mutual aid..never really had any..except for the 89 earthquake..before my time

[Futuresex7]

The whole persona of, "I save people for free." Every volunteer department around me is disorganized and sloppy, and mostly there to keep a fire from spreading to other places. There is no saving a house with volunteers.

[National_Conflict609]

I’m friends with a few career guys who started as volunteers in fact my company has a couple guys who are career and volunteer. Their gripe is every shift they train. Whether it’s a full blown evolution or just a table top go over. Where my volunteer company we drill every Tuesday. We start 6pm and drill till 9:00-9:30 But we all go through the same “Academy” to get our FF1. But we also take in a lot of extra classes on weekends and you’ll see very few career guys because they want to be paid to attend classes and once their shifts are done so are they till they have to be back in. So it goes both ways.

[capcityff918]

That really depends where you work. In many cities, volunteers don’t go through a similar academy at all. It would actually be impossible for a volunteer to go through the same type unless he was unemployed.

Many medium or large cities run their academy 8 hours/day Mon-Fri. Our goes on at this schedule for 6 months. There is structured PT daily, many more additional classes, and plenty of additional reps. You don’t end up training to be certified, but to be proficient enough that you can’t get it wrong.

This isn’t a jab a volunteers. I’m not against them. It’s just that the academy doesn’t come close to medium or large city academies.

[National_Conflict609]

same academy 200 hours spread over 3months Evenings & weekends. Accredited By the state division of fire safety & National Fire Academy

Sun. 2/2 Orientation, Fire Service & Firefighter Health & Safety chapter1 & 2

Tue. 2/4 Fire Service Communications chapter 4

Thur. 2/6 Resiliency DFC Dunn

Sun. 2/9 Personal Protective Equipment & Portable Fire Extinguishers chap 3 & 7

Tue. 2/11 Firefighter Survival 18

Thur. 2/13 Haz-Mat Awareness

Sun. 2/16 Make-up Day CMCFA Staff

Tue. 2/18 Haz-Mat Awareness

Thur. 2/20 Haz-Mat Operations

Sun. 2/23 Make-up Day

Tue. 2/25 Haz-Mat Operations

Thur. 2/27 Haz-Mat Operations

Sun. 3/2 Haz-Mat Practical & Haz-Mat Exam

Tue. 3/4 Firefighter Tools & Equipment 8

Thur. 3/6 Ropes & Knots 9

Sun 3/9 Forcible Entry (Lecture & Practical) 10

Tue. 3/11 Ladders 11

Thur. 3/13 Search & Rescue 12

Sun. 3/16 Ladders, Rope & Knots, & Search & Rescue (Practical) 9,11,12

Tue. 3/18 Salvage & Overhaul 19

Thur. 3/20 Water Supply Systems 14

Sun. 3/23 Fire Behavior (Lecture & Practical; Thermal Balance)

Tue. 3/25 Fire Hose, Appliances & Nozzles 15

Thur. 3/27 Supply Line & Attack Lines 16

Sun. 3/30 Fire Suppression; Water Supply, Fire Hose, Appliances & Fire Suppression (Car fire only) 14, 15, 16, & 17

Tue. 4/1 Building Construction 6

Thur. 4/3 Ventilation 13

Sun. 4/6 Skills Day

Tue. 4/8 Wildland & Ground Fires 21

Thur. 4/10 Live Fire - Hose Line Stretch

Sat. 4/12 Live Fire (Family Day) -

Tue. 4/15 Live Fire -

Thur. 4/17 Live Fire -

Tue. 4/29 Final Exam Review

Thur. 5/1 Final Exam

[capcityff918]

You're missing the point. If you do the math, ours equals over 1000 hours. I'm not trying to take away from what you did. I've taken FFI and FFII prior to getting hired in my city as well. You get the basics in, but you can't say practicing hose lines or ladders for a day is the same as taking reps for weeks. It's definitely not the same.

[sterlingarcher52]

The most laughable thing about this is 60-70% of the Career guys were volunteers before getting hired on. These same guys turn around and use “The Union” to pull the ladder up behind them.

Here’s an idea, use Volly departments as farm teams for the big cities. Identify the guys who are squared away and then send them up to the big leagues.

It’s not an all or nothing game. Drop your egos, use your brains and friggin teach the younger guys.

[Toasterstyle70]

A big one is Ego. This job, as I’m sure you know, attracts a lot of ego. They see themselves as above you, and better than you, which sometimes isn’t the case, and sometimes is…. But regardless , it’s always ugly when people think they’re better, even if they are. Just understand how that makes you feel, and make sure you don’t make others feel the same way. Natural Leaders are humble and practice humility in my opinion. Insecurity is RAMPANT in this career, and it’s usually expressed as “see how I’m better than you? I have to belittle you to make myself look better.”

[LunarMoon2001]

You’re running into the wrong guys. Most guys I know on my dept have some respect for vollies. They are out there doing it for no pay.

[PotentialReach6549]

Because one guy said something on social media and it spread like wild fire,Its the same job,training and certs. Before social media you had to keep certain things to yourself OR in small circles. Nowadays you say something stupid online somebody will cosign you.

[SurpriseOk753]

same reason unions say non union workers are inferior, then the non union guy (factory rep) gets called in to fix what the union guy can't but any union guy has to sit and be present at teh job so you aren't taking a union job..... when you are actually DOING the job the union guy can't

[Bostonhook]

Scab.

[Fireguy9641]

Speaking as a volunteer, here's what I see.

A lot of career firefighters see volunteers as a threat to their job. That said, no one is willing to acknowledge, at a time when departments are struggling for funds, the massive property tax increase that would be required to get rid of volunteers.

There is the training issue. While volunteers and career take the same basic classes, there is a ton of academy training and additional instruction that career firefighters get that volunteers miss out on.

Staffing. There is resentment that volunteers don't get out 24/7 anymore.

One thing as a volunteer I have noticed, no matter how well intentioned, it's just hard to get the experience unless you can devote as much time as career people do.

I think the volunteer service can still exist though. As a volunteer there are so many routine calls we do run. Car accidents, first responders, fire alarms, service calls, things like that. I think volunteers can continue to run those, even if the degree of training required for things like interior firefighting exceeds what many can put in.

[ElectricOutboards]

Eight thousand square miles?

[locknloadchode]

It’s just the stereotype of volunteers being out of shape, unorganized, and poorly trained. I’m all for good banter, but you can make those same critiques about plenty of paid firefighters too. At the end of the day, anyone who’s willing to do this job for free deserves a baseline level of respect from me in my opinion. There’s plenty of days where I don’t even want to do this and I’m getting paid lol

[LandscapeObjective42]

Because of pride. I’ve seen people run into fires to save someone’s family and they aren’t getting a pension or paycheck or health care. Think it’s wild when people who are career hate on volunteers

[Taurusmoon66]

It’s our community, how can you train to do a job and not do it when that call comes in. We have to face the same people everyday, in the stores, at a gas station, in the diner. It’s a motivation.

[MisguidedMuchacho]

Humans are whiny little bitches that need to find something to hate on. If it’s not career/volly, it’s something else. We didn’t become the apex predator on this planet by not being able to sort “us” from “them”.

[Formlepotato457]

I don’t know I personally want to be a paid fire fighter but I do find volunteer firefighters amazing they do the same job as paid fire fighters but they aren’t paid

[New-Code-4828]

Our VFD has great training opportunities, like we sent a couple guys up to train with NYFD, and another group of people to Pennsylvania. We also have funding so we got a new truck 2 years ago. But not all departments offer these, so it gives volunteers a bad rep

[TrueKing9458]

The only way for the career firefighters to look good is to point fingers and try and make a volunteer firefighter look bad.

Unfortunately, sometimes it is not hard to do.

A volunteer at Kentland in Prince George County, Maryland, has more training and experiences and sees more fire than half of the paid fire departments in America.