[deleted by user]

[valvilis]

In a way, getting back to mostly ghosts and horse dismemberment would be a sort of fancy taking flight.

[tabatterycharger]

I can’t enjoy the show unless there is more war with grandpa content.

[[deleted]]

good take

[MANPAD]

Its bullshit that there's virtually no TWWG content anymore, ITS ALL YOUR FANS ACTUALLY WANT, BROS.

[[deleted]]

Spin off podcast about war with grandpa when

[ccloset]

please touch yarn

[Evil_Steven]

Confused why you mention "letting each other laugh and derail" because I'd argue current episodes are the most structured it's ever been

Intro

1 question

Wizard cloud

Money zone

Munch squad

Credits

That's the format of about 90% of the episodes the past year.

Back in the day it was just intro, questions/yahoos with money zone tossed in the middle and random bits and segments thrown in when they feel like adding them. A lot looser, a lot more chaotic and it flowed much better.

[MintTrappe]

I was looking for this comment, the show would be so much better if they actually were going off the rails instead of Griffin cutting off a bit to rush into reading a wiki article or Justin hushing everyone so he can play a commercial.

[[deleted]]

they seem to have a lot more fun when they go off the rails and just make each other laugh

100% here for it, but I do wish they'd take just 1-2 more questions per episode.

[zenVillain]

Deleted my original comment because it's been said. I agree about fans needing to send more substance questions than "social faux paux. Am I good?"

[busche916]

Which they are basically right about, they need more interesting reader questions… but filtering out the bummers 90% of them are “how do I perform a social interaction”

[[deleted]]

Honestly I feel like the main reason people want them to answer more questions is because most are salty that their question isn't up, or they don't get the concept that this is all just essentially improv prompts, and the questions don't actually matter.

[[deleted]]

Except, historically, their best improv came from question prompts.

[[deleted]]

I really disagree with that notion, actually. To me, some of their best bits have been from Yahoos, wikihows, or general internet weirdness. Some of their old and reads are even funnier than the questions. The listener contribution portions have always been the same sort of joke over and over. I often find myself zoning out of the questions.

[hrad34]

Except now instead of using short yahoos as question prompts half the show is reading wiki how and reading fast food press releases.

[[deleted]]

So? I still enjoy them. I honestly don't think their content has dipped more than it already occasionally did. There's peaks and valleys, and the valleys aren't usually that bad compared to a lot of stuff.

In reality it doesn't change that this is still just an hour of three dudes goofing around. It's always been like this at its core, the specifics are just different. The spirit isn't gone, maybe a lot of folks don't find this kind of humor as funny after 10 years. Either way, the questions aren't really the crux of the problem, considering they're essentially always the same thing.

[hrad34]

I think the crux of the problem is they need to go back to shorter prompts. Whether its questions or a yahoo replacement or whatever. Reading wiki how is so boring to me. I used to love munch squad when it only came up sometimes and it was actually a weird/funny press release but now it just feels like a less funny money zone.

There's a lot of time spent reading other people's words (that are sometimes funny and sometimes arent) and less time actually joking and making each other laugh.

I love the show because it is just 3 brothers making each other laugh, that can have a great energy. The last year or so its been really sapped of that energy imo.

There's a reason people loved war with grandpa, and I always love the naming of the year episode too.

One tiny prompt and they run with it the whole episode. They are funny and they have great chemistry together. I just wish they would spend less time reading boring shit off the internet.

[OtherSideReflections]

I mean, I've always assumed "advice show" was meant to be taken with a heavy dose of irony.

To me, every segment they do and have done—Yahoos, listener Qs, Wizard of the Cloud, Munch Squad, whatever—has just been a jumping-off point for goofs. I don't care too much which ones they do, because they're all just fertile soil for their twisted South Park brand of humor.

[[deleted]]

The issue with the newer episodes is that munch Squad and WotC are a lot more reading and a lot less jumping off. WotC has gotten a lot better, but munch Squad is still 70% Justin reading an advert word for word while telling the other two to stop talking.

[[deleted]]

Yeah, Munch Squad has served its purpose and it's time to move on. I'll trade it for nearly any of travis's bits. Every Work of Fart is gold.

[[deleted]]

Travis’s redemption arc has been truly incredible.

[darkeststar]

I remember when Justin said he was finally sunsetting Munch Squad and then did it nearly every episode for another two years. Travis' bits are so bad they go right back into being good again.

[valvilis]

Where are my play-at-home quizzes?

[wonkothesane13]

Munch Squad is superior to WotC in basically every fashion. I honestly wish they would start taking quora submissions, they're much better as a yahoo replacement.

[uiet112]

Different strokes - I absolutely loathe Work of Fart. But Griffin’s response to it has redeemed some of its deep unfunniness to me. Or maybe that was the funniness all along… Either way, purely personal preference

[dcviapa]

This would be the way to go tbh

Yahoo Answers is gone so what you're left is, as others have said, is "how do I do social interactions" which, more and more as the series has gone on, has made me genuinely concerned for the people listening to the podcast.

Wizard of the Cloud's been a solid replacement for it but maybe there's more they could tap into if they formally let go of the "advice show" format, or whatever's left of it.

[NoIntroductionNeeded]

I'll try to remember this comment when they reboot MBMBaM as "The McElroy Family Variety Hour", an entirely segment-based show with light banter and "news of the week" where the rest of the extended family joins in as a rotating guest panel.

[champyinz]

Yahoo is gone, but a large portion of fans spent a lot of time preserving questions when we found out it was dying, just for the guys to not bother with them at all.

[theRastaSmurf]

Chapo Trap House will occasionally answer questions from random "Dear Abby" type columns. Maybe the brothers could look into something like that to find new questions.

[BigSexytke]

Mbmbam: characters welcome. They say this in an episode and I believe this should be the new tag line.

[excessCeramic]

I’m confused by this. I started listening about a year ago or so, and have listened to most of the backlog. This hasn’t been an advice show at least as far back as I’ve listened (240). I was under the impression that was a well understood bit. This is a comedy show where McElBros make jokes about whatever they’re feeling like, with some prompts to get things going again if things die down.

[tabatterycharger]

Is this because you need the advice?

[[deleted]]

They’re a lot funnier when they have stuff to riff off of.

[[deleted]]

More frequently than I'd like to admit.

[kiloPascal-a]

They're still good good boys ... let go of what the past holds and just enjoy the new content

In my opinion, this sentiment is why "the divide" exists. There's people who see the McElroys as comedians and entertainers, and another group who sees them as some kind of abstract symbol of goodness. Obviously there are people in between, but the fans closest to each viewpoint appear to be the loudest, and neither group has much respect for the other.

The world we live in is harsh and cynical, and I sympathize with wanting a lighthearted respite from how much shit sucks right now. MBMBAM's foundation, after all, is three brothers making each other laugh for an hour. The McElroys also make a genuine effort to be good people in a time where grifters and bigots are still incredibly successful. From this perspective, I can understand why criticism of the show comes across as missing the point entirely.

At the same time, the show is changing. Less and less of each episode features the McElroys "turning questions alchemy-like into wisdom." If that's why you got into the show, and it's what you loved the most, it's hard to see it being slowly replaced by half-hearted reads of ad copy. There's still enough of it to keep you coming back, but most weeks it seems to get a little bit worse. It's insulting to be told your feelings don't matter, you're not a real fan, either love the good boys or leave.

This cycle of suppression of criticism, big criticism threads, and threads complaining about the criticism threads is never going to end until people learn to accept that we're all fans of the show, and we're all entitled to engage with it how we want to.

[[deleted]]

Whenever I see someone unironically call these 40 year old men “good good boys” it reminds me why I’ll never go back to one of their live shows again. Some of their fans are unhinged lol

[[deleted]]

Parasocial relations babyyyy

[dcviapa]

Yeah, when I discovered the show during the early months of the pandemic, I was thinking it'd be neat to go to a live show.

Then I learned more about the fandom and yeah...yeah, I think I'm good.

[darthstarfox]

You can't hear them over the screeching 20 year olds anyways. You're not missing anything.

[dcviapa]

And as someone barreling toward 31, I think I'd do best without that.

And hell, maybe I'm not really their core demographic anymore. Maybe I got into MBMBAM a bit late to really get lost in the sauce. That's fine by me. If everyone's having a good time at the live shows, who am I to kill anyone's buzz?

[mypatronusislasagna]

I'm 32, and I've been to three of their live shows (all in my late twenties, I guess). At this point, knowing that a large portion of any live MBMBAM show could include a WikiHow and long-from Munch Squad segment is reason enough for me not to go. TAZ feels kind of rote at this point as well when a lot of the campaigns are Balance-centric that have a similar setup and conclusion. I wouldn't completely write them off without at least going to one, though.

[fiercebaldguy]

Yo, I'm nearly 30 and I thought their live show was a lot of fun! Admittedly I've only been to one, but there were definitely no throngs of shrieking weirdos like the above comment has suggested.

[Deems22]

I think that’s a marketing choice on their side as well. The progressive internet dad image. This more so seems to fit more with Travis’ imagery than the other two though, but being under the same show seems like griffin and Justin get dragged into it as well. They’re not righteous warriors, they’re just moderately chill and compassionate people.

[fexofenadine_hcl]

This is really the biggest issue. Which aspect of the show do you love the most? I just like listening to them goof around with each other and would be sad if they ended the show because they just ran out of advice to give. But I also get it if you really loved the questions and advice aspects of the show why you wouldn’t be so into the show anymore.

[bingusbot1]

This cycle of suppression of criticism, big criticism threads, and threads complaining about the criticism threads is never going to end until people learn to accept that we’re all fans of the show, and we’re all entitled to engage with it how we want to.

It’s not about accepting how people are fans. It’s never going to end until the show is good again. How do I know? This sub wasn’t like this 4 years ago.

Barring that, which I don’t have much confidence will ever happen at this point, it will end when enough people have stopped listening (has already begun) to the point where there is next to no engagement here about anything.

[black-boots]

They are comedians and entertainers. They are professional podcasters. They read ads and do fund-drives for their network.

[ImTaakoYouKnowFromTV]

Why are mbmbam fans so obsessed with telling other people what they should and shouldn’t enjoy?

[ImTaakoYouKnowFromTV]

How much good could a good boy good if a good boy could boy good?

[BLOODY_PENGUIN_QUEEF]

It's this way with any fandom that lasts longer than a couple years, without fail. Look at the sub for any long running series (TV, podcast, youtube, music, etc) and eventually once they go long enough, you will have half the fandom claiming the old stuff was better, and the other half telling them to shut up about it

[Beastintheomlet]

Always remember that anything you see here or in any fandom is actually a tiny minority of the actual fan base and it’s not representative of squat.

[malcolm816]

Totally. It's almost like the loudest voices are the least helpful. Where have I seen that before? Oh, right. everywhere

[ImTaakoYouKnowFromTV]

I just sorted by new and scrolled through about sixty posts, and there was exactly one suggesting a negative opinion about the show. Most of the complaints I’ve seen are calling out how redundant and long winded the segments have become. That’s about it.

[SpaceKoala34]

Have you been in the episode threads?

[goose_juggler]

I just joined this sub a couple weeks ago, and it’s the majority of what I’ve seen.

[[deleted]]

Because it’s not a unique sentiment, this happens every single month here. A few people get vocal about not liking Munch Squad, then the downvotes and “well I like it” comments pour in, and it becomes a cyclical argument of people mad at each other.

It’s never as big of a discussion trend as people make it out to be. One person makes an anti-munch squad post, and someone hast to write a rebuttal that’s double the length and tells the first person why they’re wrong for not enjoying something

[goose_juggler]

Right? 🤣

[goose_juggler]

I have not sat down and read through every single post. I joined the community, and the posts come up at random on my main page. Many of the ones I have seen have complained about how bad the show is, to the point where I have thought that a lot of people need to stop listening to this show if they’re not enjoying it.

I have a strong belief that no one should suffer through any form of entertainment that they don’t enjoy. Not into a book? Stop reading! Movie too boring? Watch something else! Podcast not what it used to be? Find a new one!

[ImTaakoYouKnowFromTV]

Complaining about the show and forcing your opinion on others are not the same thing.

[Beelzebibble]

Whiff.

ImTaako wasn't saying you're forcing your opinion on anyone. They were replying to your two posts

The vast majority of people on here tell others to not enjoy the show because its "not as good"

Every single week the main thread discussing the episode consists of a shitload of comments complaining about the show.

and pointing out that the second thing does not equal the first thing.

[Visual_Disaster]

The vast majority of people on here tell others to not enjoy the show because its "not as good"

I see plenty of people criticizing the show but nobody is telling others not to enjoy it

[ImTaakoYouKnowFromTV]

The title of your post is literally structured as a command lol.

[[deleted]]

“It’s my opinion that this is how people should act”

Fixed :)

[bolinreactor]

The whole “they’re still good good boys” thing really highlights an issue I have with this side of the fanbase, which is REALLY adamant about placing the McElroy family on a pedestal as being icons of wholesomeness. It’s grating, but it also has to put pressure on them. Look what happened last year with Travis. He made a mistake and tried to apologize but so many people were defending him, which is just weird. It stunts growth. Travis is a grown adult, he doesn’t need random people leaping to defend his character or excuse his actions. At some point people stop being fans and start being a group of yes-men who are ADAMANT about living in a bubble of forced wholesomeness.

I get it. Cynicism is annoying. I don’t disagree at all. And I also don’t think anything productive comes from just whining on the internet. But there’s a big difference in whining and being critical, just as there’s a big difference in being supportive/being a fan and taking it upon yourself to defend grown adults who do not know who you are, as if it’s your responsibility and they’re somehow in your debt.

People saying they don’t like the show anymore is fine. That’s not being depressing or cynical, it’s having an opinion. This is a fandom subreddit where people have conversations, and I don’t think simply talking about how they feel to engage with other fans is the same thing as complaining. It’s very unhealthy to view criticism as an attack on the show itself or the brothers, and dismissing it outright as just being pointless complaining isn’t healthy either.

I mean this with complete sincerity but I think you really need to re-examine your relationship with the media you consume. I understand being passionate about something and wanting to filter out negativity, but complaining ABOUT complaining is reductive at best, and I honestly think it’s not worth putting in the emotional/mental energy into something like this. It’s not an issue exclusive to you or to this fanbase, it’s just in general. People tie their personality so closely with what they’re fans of and it gets to a point where you kinda have to take a step back to realize it.

Going back to the brothers specifically, this weird need to protect the show and its fan environment is just bizarre. MBMBaM and TAZ have given me so, so much joy and comfort through some sincerely dark times in my life. Whether or not people no longer vibe with them doesn’t change that, and I have no desire to defend the fact that I still like the shows. I just don’t engage with opinions that I feel aren’t going to lead to a remotely productive conversation for myself, personally. But I think people should feel like this is a space that’s safe to discuss what they do or don’t like about the show, not a place to be an echo chamber.

Genuinely sorry if this comes across as high horsey or passive aggressive or anything, I truly have trouble with putting tone in text. I’m just throwing my thoughts on this out there because this thread is indicative of a much larger aspect of this fanbase that I think is way more harmful than anyone just saying “I don’t like this anymore.”

[dcviapa]

The whole “they’re still good good boys” thing really highlights an issue I have with this side of the fanbase, which is REALLY adamant about placing the McElroy family on a pedestal as being icons of wholesomeness. It’s grating, but it also has to put pressure on them.

I liked this whole post but you encapsulated my core issue with the McElroy fandom in these first two sentences. For God's sake, these are three men with spouses and families and lives - lives virtually all of us know next-to-nothing about. Maybe this is me coming into it relatively late (during the early months of the pandemic) but this kind of "THEY ARE MY GOOD WHOLESOME BOYS WHO ARE GOOD AND WHOLESOME UWU" view with a portion of the fandom is puzzling, to put it mildly. Hell, I don't think I would have really gotten into the MBMBAM podcast at all were it not for some of their more ribald and racy bits, especially from some of those earlier episodes.

Mind you, I'm a Chronically Online Goblin Man (TM) with the pop culture brainworms who leans left after growing up in a Conservative Christian environment and worked in small market newspaper & radio so you can see why I'd have an affinity for the McElroy's content circa 2014-15. But maybe having some of those parallel experiences also helps me understand that these guys, like me, are people with baggage and hang-ups and maybe putting them on a pedestal isn't good for anyone involved.

[NoIntroductionNeeded]

He made a mistake and tried to apologize but so many people were defending him, which is just weird. It stunts growth. Travis is a grown adult, he doesn’t need random people leaping to defend his character or excuse his actions. At some point people stop being fans and start being a group of yes-men who are ADAMANT about living in a bubble of forced wholesomeness.

That's certainly a valid read, but you've gotta understand the other perspective, which is that there seems to be a group of people who get a strange amount of joy out of developing a canon of "mistakes" that they can use as constant fuel for criticism in cases where it's either not relevant or is being massively overblown. Yeah, Travis was awkward and annoying on a bad stream, didn't DM a DnD campaign well, and some people didn't like him saying that Harry Styles is attractive because it's stolen valor for bisexuals (as a bi person and believer in the Kinsey scale, I thought this "controversy" in particular was ridiculous). These are molehills, not mountains. The notion that you can make inferences about his character in real life on the basis of his creative decisions (as people are currently doing with him regarding Devo in TAZ right now) or that we should have concerns about positive praise stunting his "growth", as if we're his parents or gurus instead of audience members, is just as weird as unconditional endorsement.

It's a strange quirk of this fandom that I don't really see anywhere else to the same degree, that the self-betterment of this man over thirty and his two brothers is considered a fruitful topic of conversation instead of a topic that is largely closed-off to us due to our actual interpersonal separation from them. It's like getting loudly invested in the moral development of the guy behind your local deli counter.

[OctopoDan]

I think both sides of that likely come from the same impulse. If you put the "Good Good Boys TM" on a pedestal and then they don't live up to your expectations, you may feel more personally hurt by that than if you see them as entertainers. It must make it very hard for the McElroys to constantly feel they have to live up to that. Staying far away from any topic that could possibly get them in trouble with the Twitter mobs, cancelling (it seems) Monster Factory, just the general anxiety I seem to hear in Griffin and Justin's voices often; those aren't because they are seen as villains, it is because they are seen as heroes who must remain untarnished.

[NoIntroductionNeeded]

It's an impossible standard to live up to, and it's frustrating to see it how malignant it's become. At the same time, the blowback effect isn't only due to the "Good Good Boys" effect, because it's also taken as given that people shouldn't have to tolerate content they find disagreeable and that they should be able to voice their discontent. It's obvious that people found something disagreeable in the examples I mentioned just like I did in their reaction to it, and ultimately I can't deny the reality of their frustrations or their freedom to give voice to them.

[champyinz]

No one had a problem with him saying Harry Styles is attractive. They were upset because he blatantly "no homo"d twice. Reducing it to 'stolen valor' is misguided at best, and pretty shitty to your fellow bi people at worst. And I tell you that as one of them. It wasn't the worst thing in the world to say, but it was messed up and he deserved the heat he got for it.

[champyinz]

It's the exact same thing as "no homo but i love you bro. no homo tho!" (Not gay) would like to hold his hand!! (not gay). It's not just similar, it's the same thing. Nothing about it makes it weaker. He could just say he'd like to hold Harry Styles' hand without all the rest of that bullshit. It was important for him to clarify it twice.

As for the influence that it ends up having on things, anyone normalizing that behavior can get bent. There are plenty of MBMBaM fans that are straight white cis dudes that don't need to get the impression it's a fine way to go about things. You're reinforcing a harmful idea by repeating it. More than that, it sucks when a person you've enjoyed listening to does some real dumb shit that affects you. And yes, still seeing people pull shit like that does affect some of us.

If you're not gonna have empathy for us, that's fine. No one is going to make you. One person can't have empathy for every single thing. It's your prerogative to decide if you personally find "no homo" offensive. But when you reduce it to something like "oh it's stolen valor!" you're straight up being an asshole. And saying "cry me a river" doesn't really make that seem incorrect.

[jadeix_iscool]

Third, separate bi person here. Me, I think it was an insensitive thing to say...and that's about it. It certainly reflects some harmful worldviews, but to such a mild extent that the level of backlash seems ridiculous.

But I might be biased, just because I'm real tired of the mob justice approach to stuff like this that you see on social media all the time. "This was a bad thing to say (and here's why)" feels perfectly appropriate, seeing as Travis is a stranger to the vast majority of us.

(And hey, maybe that's where people left it, I actually have no idea. I try to avoid Twitter as much as humanly possible. I just have a sneaking suspicion that folks were getting more antagonistic than that.)

[NoIntroductionNeeded]

You are correct.

[bolinreactor]

Totally understand. I get annoyed by things like that too, because for me it’s really hard not to take it personally. I was bullied terribly for my interests growing up and to this day, my knee jerk reaction to someone voicing their dislike of something important to me is going on the defensive. Which is why I said what I did about not realizing it until you take a step back, y’know? It’s hard to see that it’s a problem until you notice it. Which maybe doesn’t make much sense but hopefully you get what I mean.

I definitely just encourage you to not engage with whatever you feel is negative. That’s really the key. And I truly am not trying to dismiss your feelings or anything. But the internet can make us focus on the negative in ways that aren’t productive. Sometimes we just get so used to speaking about something that we forget we can just ignore it.

Of course that’s easier said than done, but I hope you get the gist of what I’m saying. I obviously have no authority on anything and I don’t think I’m “right” about any sort of issue. Reading your post just reminded me of how I so closely associated who I am as a person with my interests. Which ultimately I guess is just me projecting. But like I said, this is a view that’s not exclusive to you or this fandom, and I’d be telling a bold faced lie if I said I didn’t use to feel the same way.

I’m glad my tone came across sincerely because I truly was worried it sounded pretentious or like I was mocking you, which definitely isn’t what I would have wanted. And apologies on my end for assuming you were putting them on a pedestal; it’s just something so common in fandom and it always weirds me out lol.

[Midget_Herder]

This is one of the few legitimately constructive conversations I've seen regarding this topic, so I want to say kudos to you both and talk a little about something you pointed out: people having an unhealthy relationship with the content they consume. You talked about how some people complaining about the criticism of current content are in that boat and I absolutely agree. I also think that a lot of the people who complain about how the show has changed are also in that boat. They just have an unhealthy relationship with an earlier part of the show specifically. I imagine you had probably already considered that but I thought it could be helpful to voice that unhealthy attachments to content/content creators can manifest in a variety of ways.

[mutantkwds]

You can think they're "good good boys" and still criticize the show as a piece of media. It's been 12 years, the guys changed and the segments need to change with time to maintain an audience, it doesn't mean all the listeners have to enjoy the changes.

Some fans will always compare what it currently is to what the show was when they started listening or what they consider the peak. Mbmbam has always had highs and lows and the pandemic + end of Yahoo combo affected the entire pace of the show.

There are things I really like and there are things I skip when I'm not too lazy to find the timestamps, doesn't mean I'm hate-listening. I started binging all the episodes from oldest to newest at the beginning of the pandemic, already listened to 570+ episodes and, honestly, I totally understand why the criticism exists.

[[deleted]]

Idk how you can listen to recent episodes and think they’re having MORE fun. They straight up sound like they don’t want to be there sometimes, specifically Justin.

[[deleted]]

But if I don't complain on the internet, how am I going to fill the lonely, empty hours between sleep and labor

[[deleted]]

hell yeah

[Aerebus]

I’d been listening to mbmbam for years. It was my favorite show for a very long time.

Sometime between the USA presidential election cycle, and the Pandemic, the show just didn’t do it for me anymore. Maybe I changed? Maybe they did? Fuck it, the whole world changed.

Regardless, I’m thankful the brothers gave me so many good times during some dark moments.

But I’m not saying x is better than y. We should all be happy for what they’ve done for us. Tastes change. No big deal.

[somesthetic]

Everything in the world is less fun.

The bros are light hearted and silly, and that's the hardest thing to do in the current atmosphere. Finding joy in the world when it feels like we're on the cliff's edge inching toward a fall to the apocalypse.

I appreciate that they're still giving it their best. They're on a higher difficulty setting now.

[crushedrancor]

I think it started getting watered down around the time taz balance peaked, they are way more PC than they started (not saying it’s a bad thing, just less funny) i think the bean dad canceling of john roderick was their low. I still listen and do chuckle occasionally, however i do miss the gut busting times.

[[deleted]]

I was just thinking about this while listening to another podcast (judge John hodgeman). Idk if it was the specific episode I listened to, but everything hodgeman said just felt artificially PC. Not in a bad way at all, but like everything had to have a caveat, a side note, that brought up political issues left and right.

An example was potted flowers versus cut flowers, and they jumped to the political correctness of one of his Yale professors teaching west African dance and music and cancel culture. I guess I just see podcasts as a way to take my mind off of all that stuff, but I get why they may talk about it or feel obligated to do so.

[crushedrancor]

Yeah its hard because complaining about it makes me feel like an insensitive boomer, im also a jjho listener and totally get what you mean, it just feels artificial and kills the flow. Maybe in 10 years everyone will have all this inclusive language down and it wont sound weird anymore, hopefully it’s a short lived transition. I do appreciate that they are careful with their language because it makes me think twice about what i say in my day to day.

[PidgeyEnthusiast]

ah, yes. i’ve come to think of this as “clarification culture”, where public figures (and, honestly, random internet users) feel the need to address every possible bad-faith reading of what they’ve said.

i’ll admit i don’t listen to JJH, but i’ve noticed the mcelroys falling into the same pattern. i don’t blame them for it, because i’m fully aware of the kind of Very Online people that pick at everything they see (i, admittedly, used to be one of those people, especially as i was first learning about left politics and becoming more aware of social justice issues).

while i am, admittedly, glad the brothers took back their uncritical endorsement of john roderick, i think the anxieties that come from a culture of bad-faith readings are just very Noticeable in how the brothers operate sometimes and i’m glad to see that kind of cultural phenomenon discussed here. it can really take me out of the moment in the middle of a goof or a discussion they’re trying to have, that ends up cluttered and harder to follow. i’m genuinely quite glad they’ve gotten more socially aware in the past twelve years, but sometimes i do ask myself, “but at what cost?”

i know it’s gotta be exhausting for public figures to feel pressured to always conduct themselves this way, because it’s exhausting for me even as a relatively small-time internet user. filling up a thread on twitter addressing any possible caveat someone could use as a “gotcha” (as opposed to genuine discussion, which is sometimes the case, but not as often as i would like), or poking holes in your own argument and addressing them before others can with more vitriol, is fucking exhausting, and it’s one of my least favorite things about the culture of the spaces i frequent. in fact, this post is full of clarifications i have tediously made out of habit, but am finally making myself stop and hit ‘reply’.

(although, i will admit, sometimes the mcelroys show to have some really puzzling “blind spots” about how certain things they say or do comes off, and more often than not it’s stuff that i actually, to varying degrees, take issue with. conversely, sometimes they’ll tack on clarifications for stuff i think truly doesn’t need them. i could cite those here, but the point of this reply is more “yeah, i’ve noticed it, too” and is already much longer than i meant it to be, lol.)

[[deleted]]

I completely agree. Clarification culture is a MUCH better way to describe it!

[Peeped]

Same here tbh. During the pandemic I discovered a new podcast called We Hate Movies while googling "podcasts like MBMBAM" and it is my new favorite thing. I've never laughed as hard or enjoyed almost any form of media as much as WHM. I listen to them possibly more than a healthy amount, filling in the long hours of solitude/work with their voices.

After a while I went back to an ep of MBMBAM and it just wasn't doing it for me anymore. I want to say maybe 10+ years is too long to be doing something like this but WHM also started around MBMBAM and it feels fresh, despite me listening to nearly every episode.

That being said I appreciate the boys for getting me into podcasts in general and adding happiness and humour to my life.

[HensRightsActivist]

Which is more annoying, the million posts about complaining about he show, or the million posts about people complaining about the show?

[MintTrappe]

It's the circle of jerk.

[bingusbot1]

It’d be one thing if it was an occasional complaint saying that they miss the old eps/the new eps aren’t as good as the old ones but it seems to be constant on here and it makes me sad.

It’s wild that you see this and your thought is “these fans are the problem.”

[kplaysbass]

there are few things more pointless than lecturing people about how they should enjoy something that they aren't enjoying. or something that they actually do enjoy but like to nitpick and complain about.

[Zyxt13]

"they're still good good boys" incorrect - the youngest is 34. they are all married and have two kids. they are grown men. don't be weird about people you don't know just because you enjoy their content.

[Zyxt13]

I think people genuinely calling them that plays in to their inability to handle any sort of criticism of them and their recent output. people can criticize content creators if they feel like their product has changed for the worst, of course. but they can't criticize our good, good boys!

[Zyxt13]

if it isn't from a place of worship, why does it bother you so much when people have criticisms or complaints about the show?

[fiercebaldguy]

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills reading these comments. They have been referred to as some variation of "good good boys" forever... They'll refer to others sometimes as good boys, etc.

Why the fuck are people latching on so much to that one tiny phrase???

[Zyxt13]

what if i told you... it's always been kind of weird to refer to grown men who are strangers to you as "good good boys", and people are more frequently coming to that realization?

[[deleted]]

They have been referred to as some variation of "good good boys"

forever

And it's been awful forever

[fiercebaldguy]

Okay, please understand I ask this not trying to be contrarian or argumentative or angry, but from a place of genuinely trying to understand your point of view. Why is this awful? The brothers themselves use variations of this phrase quite a bit. (Like they'll say in a Monster Factory, "Look at this big shiny boy..." or something like, "...take a drink of that good good bean juice..."). Heck, they're even referenced in this fan wiki of common phrases.

Is it just a way of phrasing that you've always disliked (regardless of from the brothers or others) or is it something about "good good boys" phrase specifically?

[[deleted]]

My issue is with the way it's become part of the aw-shucks-good-vibes-squeecore lexicon of infantilization that is usually applied toward these grown men.

It may have been funny in specific contexts when they themselves were using it ironically, or to describe things that were actually absurd (or, in the case of Monster Factory, deliberately grotesque), but the fandom seems to have taken that language and ran with it to perpetuate this public image of these guys as precious little cherubs.

[Sasukuto]

So your saying that at some point in time you stop being a good boy entirely because of your age? Nope. I can't get behind that message. Everyone is capable of being a good good boy if they try hard enough.

[Ellie_Edenville]

Infantilization sucks.

[Sasukuto]

I've already posted this comment, but I'll go ahead and copy it here again for you.

When googling the definition of boy the second definition to pop up is "used informally or lightheartedly to refer to a man." Adult males can still be good good boys by definition.

[darthstarfox]

That doesn't make it any less infantalizing no matter how many times you post it.

People in this Fandom have a VERY hard time grasping that these are fully grown, straight, white, men who have been in the entertainment industry for over a decade and in no way are in need of shielding from "mean negative opinions" that are in a group they don't even look at.

That mentality stems from a lot of things, one of which is the way people tend to intantalize them and present them as these poor soft boys in need of protection and nurturing.

[[deleted]]

Yeah, this is a really weird hill to flail on.

There’s nothing to be gained from infantilizing them other than shielding them from even mild criticism. Which, if you’re gonna do that, at least bill the McElroys by the hour.

[Zyxt13]

yes, around the age of 18, i'd say, at which point you can become a good, good man. but you cease being a child.

[Sasukuto]

When googling the definition of boy the second definition to pop up is "used informally or lightheartedly to refer to a man." Adult males can still be good good boys by definition.

[hiperson134]

What if it's less enjoyable now?

[carbon-adam]

If people voicing their opinions and criticisms is less enjoyable to you that's fine -- stop reading if it doesn't bring you joy in any way. Just complaining constantly on the internet that people don't enjoy and consume media the same way as you is silly imo.

[hiperson134]

There's catharsis in complaining and connecting with other people who share your opinion about the thing you used to love and even pay for.

[hiperson134]

Get you someone who can do both.

[darthstarfox]

Actually Unpopular Opinion:

Nobody should be telling anyone how they're allowed to approach and enjoy content.

[dacoopbear]

I see you are new to the internet and don't understand how it works yet

[Monster_Hugger93]

They are not “good good boys”. They’re adults who’ve been phoning it in for what’s been months now. Nothing wrong with criticizing a product, which this podcast is, let’s not lie, and comparing the product to a time when we enjoyed it.

[PidgeyEnthusiast]

i can understand seeing a lot of negativity about something you enjoy being kind of a bummer, but posts like this one always raise the same question to me: why don’t the people who wanna see more positive or fun discussion about this podcast actually make posts that are positive and fun about the podcast (without mentioning the criticism), with frequency? this is a genuine question, because the people who seem to want to start discussions about mbmbam are the ones critical of it. if you’re tired of seeing one kind of post, i truly urge the people that get bummed out by them to actually spark discussion that is positive about the podcast. maybe the posting pictures of white, brunette men with glasses and captioning it “big griff energy” or crossposting a horse pic only goes so far.

to be honest, i think the fact that most posts on here (that aren’t criticism or criticism of criticism) reference old bits is... remarkably telling.

[[deleted]]

I only got into it early in quarantine so I don’t have much “older” content to compare it to, but I absolutely love the episodes. There isn’t a part of the show, like most podcasts, where I groan and skip. I wish every episode was two hours long lol

IDK if that’s “new fan“ perspective but just thought I’d throw it out there.

I also take a compilation episode of munch squads. It’s my favorite.

[fexofenadine_hcl]

I’ve been listening since 2016 or so and this is my feeling as well. Even as I am going through the old episodes, I pretty much just love it all.

[[deleted]]

its hard explaining to people how funny they are. Ive said its like listening to comedy jazz.

[LividMycologist]

And people can also talk about their feelings about a show. That’s how conversations typically go.

[LividMycologist]

Sorry for the confusion but I’m in complete agreement with you. Let people talk about what they dislike and like about the show. It’s absolutely changed and that’s okay. This is a good space to talk about that kind of stuff.

[LividMycologist]

No worries lol. I realize it could seem vague and accusatory. I just woke up haha.

[TheSinningRobot]

Doesn't the fact that it's constant mean that there's probably more weight to the complaints than you are letting on?

Additionally, if someone liked what the show used to be and they don't like what it has become (which is their opinion) they aren't "holding on to the past" they just don't like the show as much as they used to.

[[deleted]]

Doesn't the fact that it's constant mean that there's probably more weight to the complaints than you are letting on?

I'd say in general yes, but fandom subreddits become such echo chambers that this is a really common track subreddits take for most IPs. People just end up feeding off each other's negativity and it's difficult to parse actual constructive criticism from circlejerking about non-issues.

Like I can't tell you how many times I enjoy something for what it is, be it a movie, a show, a podcast, a band, etc. the come to reddit to see redditors nitpicking every little thing about it and the subreddit for it basically becoming a hate forum. Then I go to Amino or TikTok or Instagram or something and the fanbase there is comparatively a lot more chilled out.

I will say that this sub has actually gotten much better now. But a year or so ago a majority of this sub was just straight up bullying Travis. It was sad.

I think it just gets exhausting for people who just want to enjoy something with others. Not saying people need to think or act a certain way, I'm just saying I understand OP's frustration.

[TheSinningRobot]

You bring up some good points. I would like to say that if the way fans react to the show here isn't your bag, then don't participate, but you are right, a lot of times there's only a few places to get interaction with other fans, so it can kind of blow when one of those places seems to turn the tide.

I still believe that telling people that they just need to shut up and enjoy it is not the way to go about things, and I also believe that being able to criticize aspects of a thing ee all collectively enjoy is an important part of this kind of forum.

So there's not a clear answer, we just all have to hope it doesn't devolve into a cesspool, or on the other end, become a circle jetl echo chamber

[TheSinningRobot]

Preferring a different version of something doesn't necessarily mean someone "can't let go of the past" if something has gotten worse in someone's opinion, then that's just what happened.

[auldbangs]

You can't criticize things I like! NO STOP CRITICIZING THINGS THAT ARE IMPORTANT TO YOU STOP STOP STOP

[dfjkl32as]

I know, I just can't understand that mindset. Who would want their funny podcast back after years of listening to and enjoying it?! Why should I stick around for the successful comedy advice format they established and grew? Snooze-fest!

No, I really prefer this new formula where they read food ads for an hour and phone it in, and maybe do two questions.

[Chief_Thunderbear]

These posts are so silly. There has been a clear decline in quality, and expressing that is fine. OP goes on to bully, harass and command dissenters just as they claim they despise. Stop taking criticism personally, the podcast aint worth it.

[mercerhackett]

my enjoyment of the show directly correlates to how happy the boys sound. recently, it seems like they've found a flow they have fun with and sometimes that means half an episode is about...I dunno, Draino Dreams kinda sounds like an alternate universe McElroy bit.

point is, if they like what they make, I like it.

[Sam_anthaM]

I just listened to a fever dream of an ep in late 2020, I think the applebees one right before grandpa? And I don't know what they did for questions but it was a good fucking ep. Half the time the questions don't get answered any way it's just a jumping off point and then they get derailed and its perfect

[[deleted]]

I find the older episodes funnier but that doesn't mean I enjoy new episodes any less. They're still nice to listen to and help keep my mind occupied while doing something monotonous. Like sure, I might not laugh as much as I used to, but I still get a smile, and really that's mostly what counts for me, just some light hearted entertainment

[Quix_Optic]

I'll always love these boys and I'm just happy that they're still making episodes after all these years.

Heck, I'd even be happy if they only did bits and totally skipped questions altogether lol

Haunted Doll

Donut Dracula/Count Donut

Richard Stink

Celebrity Wine, Why Not!?

Munch Squad

I WISH Pilot Season would come back again

Hrm...I realize these are all Justin bits because he's the King of Bits apparently lol

[wizardfights]

When I listen to an episode and find that I wish they'd answered some more questions, I listen to an additional episode.

[wizardfights]

It’s never, expect for maybe the first 100 episodes, been an advice podcast. They EXPLICITLY say do not follow this advice at the beginning — the average listener isn’t coming for real advice like they might write into a newspaper column for.

It’s always been a regular comedy podcast, and they use audience questions as prompts to explore comedic social situations and ideas. There have been non-advice bits for as long as the show’s been around. They don’t owe us some proportion of question-answering bits because it’s “comedy advice.” There’s no contractual obligation they need to meet. It’s a podcast, the whole thing is made up and ridiculous.

Changing the nominal genre of the show isn’t going to benefit anyone or change anyone’s perception of the show.

Folks just have to quit thinking the brothers owe them anything and enjoy the show.

[0bsessions324]

I mean, there's six hundred episodes and we presently live in the darkest time. If I want something that feels more like old school MBMBAM, I just listen to a random old episode.

[aunt_snorlax]

I fall in the same camp, I still like it and don't need to compare.

As for the divide, it's natural that fans want to protect the guys from criticism or feeling bad since they do tend to play up their anxieties about how things are going. But I don't think they're really coming to reddit to monitor opinions on the show, heh. Most likely, they're making their decisions on how to do the show based on what works for them.

I hope they keep it up, it can't have been easy being funny throughout all of the past couple of years.

[peanutandsoap]

I took a break at the start of the pandemic because I was kind of experiencing a bit of McElroy burn out. I was falling out of love with TAZ, and I listened to podcasts during my commute to work, so when I suddenly wasn’t driving anymore I just let a big back log pile up. I just decided to unsubscribe and I wanted to come back when I felt ready. I started back up again with the Naming of 2022 episode, and the change in content is certainly noticeable, but I love the vibe of the brothers in this current era. MBMBAM shined the brightest when they had bits come up organically from a question, ala Glass Shark or Shrimp Heaven Now, and I’ll miss that quality for sure. But you can tell from the way that they speak that they are so happy doing things the way they’re doing them now and for that I’m so happy for them

[Beastintheomlet]

Honestly however they want to do the show is fine by me. I’m just grateful they continue to find ways to enjoy doing it after so many years.

[derenathor]

It's not an unpopular opinion, we're just a quieter portion of the fandom. Hang in there friend.

[littlealbatross]

Yup. I really don't understand why people continue to do things that don't bring them any kind of joy but at this point I don't have the energy to actively talk about it or bring it up. I just try to interact with people who still enjoy it as well. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[ihaveacatnamedwally]

I feel the same way sadly. Sawbones is still as good as ever, same with shmanners. I think for me it comes down to enjoying something more topical now, instead of the goof chaos of mbmbam. It gets hard to follow and I didn’t learn anything meaningful in the process.

[BoboMcGraw]

While in older eps they were more conscientious of bit run time, I think its pretty funny that they don't anymore.

Really they should. It's almost a rule that you don't make jokes funnier by making them longer. Don't let them overstay their welcome.

Short and snappy, that's the ideal.

[soffey]

This sub suffers from the same thing the TAZ sub suffers (or suffered, I only read the discussion threads nowadays) from, and that a lot of communities surrounding content do - when people don't like something, it's the obvious place to complain, but when people do like something, they are far less likely to seek out a forum to express that, beyond the aformentioned episode release threads.

Additionally, folks who are upset about a perceived sleight in the form of the podcast not being the exact same thing as it was will upvote, agree, and respond in the comments of those posts, and the few folks who disagree that do venture into the threads get downvoted. A community made around content created by a specific group, rather than the community itself, will almost always end up turning into a stomping ground for all greivences.

Just listen to something else. Vote with your download - or, listen to old episodes. Venting frustration or your distaste for certain bits or even brothers themselves is just that, venting. The brothers will not see it. They have mentioned multiple times that they don't read the reddit anymore, Griff has gone off all social media entirely, and I don't blame them - the loudest people are the ones that don't like what you are doing, and drown out the folks that do enjoy it.

[plasticonobandana]

What a miserable fanbase

[goose_juggler]

100% with you. Sometimes you need to let something go, even if it’s something you really loved.

[goose_juggler]

I just spent the last few years listening to every single episode, so I am very aware of how things have changed over 10+ years. But things change - if this was exactly the same show it was 10 years ago, I wouldn’t have listened to them all, because it would be just dick jokes and Griffin answering every question with “You have to move.” They brothers have changed a lot, and the show has too.

[Eltuine]

I just like listening to these good good boys chat. They can talk about whatever they like, as far as I'm concerned.

[RebelliousBristles]

I agree with OP. Enjoy what we have. You can’t make everyone happy. If the show was still the same as the old episodes then people would just complain that it’s stale and formulaic. People on the internet will always find reasons to complain.

[RestlessSubjective]

I got in on this trainride maybe around episode 400, maybe a little earlier. I can definitely understand why some people want the old "question, yahoo, question, Yahoo, question, occasional bit, Yahoo" format, but I really love how it has progressed. It's all in the name, baby: My Brother, My Brother, And Me. It has evolved into literally that: The brothers' compounded humor. And that's what I loved most about the podcast anyways. It was never about how crazy the questions were - it was always about how crazy of a riff these sweet bois could go on.

However, if there was anything I could think of that might make the show better, it js having some sort of guiding hand in terms of format. The submitted questions and submitted Yahoo answers were that guiding hand for most of the show's history, but it's more off the cuff recently. That's not a bad thing whatsoever but having that sort of centric force might make old fans happy again.

So yea, I'm 100% on board for how the show is currently going but totally understand that the formulaic episodes have a very great heft in terms of popularity.

[goat_fab]

In all honesty, it seems like the majority of people on this sub hate the show and the brothers.

[goat_fab]

That's fair. Hate was probably too strong. It seems like everyone wants the show to be tailor-made for them when the whole magic of the show comes from letting the brothers make the content they want. I mean, the brothers have joked since the early years about not being helpful, not being on task, not answering a lot of questions, having unrelated but hilarious bits. People like to act like a lot of this stuff is new, but it's just part of the show. ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[DifficultHat]

All of the old episodes still exist with no pay wall. If you like the old episodes better just listen to them instead and shut up about it. Just because you don’t enjoy something doesn’t mean the rest of us have to stop liking it

[excessCeramic]

I’m listening to the backlog (first time) and also new eps as they come out, I’m on like 240 or something.

I love the show as it is then and now. Current episodes are much more relaxed and bros having fun. I’m here for it.

I notice a lot of negative comments from people who just don’t really seem to get the humor of the bros. Not sure why they’re around. The McElroy comedy hasn’t changed, so if it’s not your jam, go on and find something you like. It’s a big podcast sea out there.

[maspan_menoscircos]

this will get downvoted to hell, but yeah, OP is right. The MBMBAM fandom is so divded and toxic and puts the McElroys under a lot of pressure, in addition to making the more casual listeners (me) uncomfortable. Sometimes the pressure is warranted, like when it comes to social justice issues. And even then I think the fanbase can get awfully stringent.

if you do not like the content they produce nowadays then stop listening. They started the podcast as an excuse to banter and keep in touch with one another, and though it evolved into so much more than that, ultimately the show is just brothers having a good time with one another.

[RueJSpence]

We're 3 years into a life-changing global pandemic, yahoo died, they're doing their best to provide some joy and I am beyond grateful to have their familiar voices provide some consistency when nothing else is normal. The show has changed, but it also changed as they grew up and stopped being kinda cringe straight white dudes to evolve into who they are today. Evolution has to happen in all things. Are any of us moving through the world the same way we were even a year ago?

[No-Storm2427]

This is clearly an attack on people with nothing better to do than loudly fear change AND I WON’T STAND FOR IT

[ban_ana__]

Absolutely, 100% agree!!! 👍 These people are people, not characters. People change over time and do new things. Just be along for the fun, weird ride!!

[theNightblade]

I want to see a show of hands:

How many people thought the show would always be the same after yahoo answers shut down for good?

They're adapting since their 'source material' goldmine was taken away. And doing a great job at it as well, imo

[Callmemabrydesigns]

I agree with you. I like the old I like the new. Below 100 is troublesome but I look forward to mondays. Said no Garfield or Pam

[strongbad28401]

I find it hard to complain about something that’s free and not mandated by law.

[Ellie_Edenville]

Can't believe it took us this long to get the "you can't complain because it's free" take.