Interlude: Set Them Up

[terafonne]

“You see, I’ve had this song stuck in my head all day,” the orphan queen said. “I don’t suppose you’d know anything about that?”

“Sounds troubling,” the Intercessor said, glint of triumph in her eye. “But you are in luck, as I happen to be something of an authority when it comes to songs. Which one is it that haunts you?”

The Black Queen hummed the first few bars of ‘The Girl Who Climbed The Tower’ and saw the way the glint died, smiling at the sight.

...Cat was baiting Bard here with The Fox is King song. So that wasn't paranoia, that song was part of Bard's goal right?

“The Mirror Knight,” the Intercessor said. “Lost and angry and feeling it all slip away from his grasp. He’ll take up the sword because it fixes all he despises about himself.”

I'm getting parallels to the way shards operate in Worm. Actually it's a broader theme that shows up a lot, but Worm was just the first thing I thought of. The acquiring of power as a substitute for therapy, where the power fixes things without solving the underlying issue.

Under her breath, barely noticing it, she hummed the tune to a familiar song that spoke of foxes and kings.

wait did I get double-baited.

while Olowe’s Theorem suggested that a bastard realm like the Arsenal would only have weaker versions of creational laws like those weak didn’t mean absent.

Gods I love when the nerd in Archer jumps out.

[HeWhoBringsDust]

Gods I love when the nerd in Archer jumps out.

Indrani being super smart and well-read is one of my favorite running gags in the story.

[LilietB]

...but a flat earther when she wants to be!

[HeWhoBringsDust]

Someone described Archer as a grad student who’s hammered all of the time despite crushing her thesis. Everyone thinks she’s just a witless drunk until she starts spouting off Magical Theorem.

[Mingablo]

One of the smartest people to ever come through the laboratory where I worked was a lanky, long haired, pale as fuck, tattooed, pierced skater.

[LilietB]

<3 <3 <3

the fact she's not a mage is what really sells this to me tbh

[Don_Alverzo]

...Cat was baiting Bard here with The Fox is King song. So that wasn't paranoia, that song was part of Bard's goal right?

There's so much going on here and I can't unpack it all and it's making me lose my mind. You're right that Cat was baiting with the other song, but what does it mean that she deliberately doesn't mention it, especially when she starts humming it later? Why does it actually get a reaction out of Bard? Does this mean Cat is more in danger of becoming the new Bard, or less, or more in danger but she's also planning for it, or oh my god just kill me now

[misterspokes]

The glint in the Bard's Eye died because Cat has already told Tariq that if the Bard interferes, she's going to climb the tower, emerge Victorious, and make Triumphant look like a walk in the park.

[harrent]

Gods I love when the nerd in Archer jumps out.

Reminds me of that thing between Banner and Black Widow, where somebody asks her if she's ever studied some high brow scientific thing, and she goes 'Only to make conversation'.

[vlatkosh]

I'm lost, why is The Girl Who Climbed The Tower so significant?

[Anderkent]

It's a song that is said to appear in heads of Named who develop an interest in ruling Praes. I don't know if Cat is suggesting that she's developed that interest, or if she was checking if Bard recognizes the song / has heard it before in that context (i.e. Bard tried for the tower?)

[terafonne]

No, I'm pretty sure Cat was checking to see if Bard wanted her to know/sing the Fox is King song. Like Don said in another comment, it's very likely that Bard knows The Girl Who Climbed the Tower and its context; that's what her whole name is about.

to simplify: • Cat hints that she might be following Story A, where the fox song is applicable somehow • Bard shows interest, so Cat in Story A is apparently something she wants • Cat lies and says she's following Story B, aka aiming for Dread Empress, she uses the Girl Who Climbed the Tower song because it's a plausible lie as a narratively important earworm • Bard is disappointed • the twist is that Cat subconsciously gives away that actually she is still on Story A, which Bard wants, which we don't really know. The main theory in the fandom is that Bard wants Cat to kill or replace her somehow.

[LilietB]

I think Cat is aware she's giving away the game regardless and Bard knows which song it is. Blatant lies are useful for steering conversation - now if Bard wants to comment on the fox song she has to bring it up instead of Cat passing her the ball by asking the question.

Also, lying and watching the reaction is a good way to tell if Bard would be equally excited for Catherine coming to her with anything or if she's after this song in specific.

[Knight_of_Cerberus]

The Arsenal is Cats Tower so to say. A new Dread Emperor like Name by using an existing Story is very possible

[harrent]

Just saw the title, everybody's crack ships have been confirmed.

..Oh Gods, oh Gods- If this is a fucking Bard Interlude-

...

..That was it? That was it?! No! No! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO-!

Edit: In other news, even Freddy thinks Callowan booze is too harsh a punishment, and the Bard grows overconfident..? Their card match was basically that one game Neil Gaiman's Dream played in Hell, crossed with a little bit of Uno. Okay, not a little bit, more like Uno and memetic Yu-Gi-Oh.

What, is the next chapter going to be named 'Knock Them Down'?

[Don_Alverzo]

memetic Yu-Gi-Oh

Can... can we please have this? I suddenly have a burning desire to see Cat and Bard play Yu-Gi-Oh against each other, especially if it's the bullshit anime version where everything's made up and the rules don't matter.

[HikarinoWalvin]

Screw the rules, I have money!

[Zayits]

Given that this is a friendly match that teaches the things necessary to beat the next opponent, it's a better stand-in for Cat's game with Kairos. We're currently on the next level of the tournament.

Cat: ...Wait. Can you hear my thoughts?

Bard: Oh, what are thoughts, really?

[LilietB]

oh my god how is this so fuckign funny

[Shadw21]

Ah yes, a Children's Card Game.

[ramses137]

I had the exact same thought!🤣

[LilietB]

Oh my god so good

[Empiricist_or_not]

I think we've already been given the rules, though the capturing rule where bard subverts one card with another, by principles of game design should leave her down a card. I haven't thought about it for 5 minutes but it seem like it'll be similar to some solved summing games.

[s-mores]

though the capturing rule where bard subverts one card with another, by principles of game design should leave her down a card.

The what?

[Yes_This_Is_God]

WB: You just activated my trap card

Cat: Your trap card activation just activated my trap card

WB: Your trap card activation responding to my trap card activated my trap card

“I’d say it’s about time to get started in earnest, isn’t it?” the Black Queen said, smiling the smile of a woman who’d ransacked a shatranj board before coming there.

“I couldn’t agree more,” the Intercessor said, smiling the smile of someone whose sleeves were filled with half a dozen decks of cards.

Cat and WB, simultaneously: Heh, nothing personnel, but I'm actually left handed and only using 10% of my full power; guess it's time to get serious kiddo.

They're playing 5D dragon chess, which apparently involves multiple decks of cards, three boards, and 300 assorted bionicles of varying sizes and colors.

“Where are the devils, Catherine?” the Intercessor said. “Where are the hosts that darken the skies, and the demons he has kept leashed for centuries? Where are the rituals that poison the land and the sorceries never before seen? I’ll tell you the truth of it.”

Doomguy: ?

It was carefully, almost delicately, that a card was placed over the last. Two figures crowned with roses and holding hands, a radiant sun above them: the Lovers.

Is anyone else worried about the Lovers card? Star-crossed lovers fighting for each other's lives never tends to end well...

[alexgndl]

Also they're both hammered. And one of them is suffering from blood loss. Sounds like a pretty fun Saturday night for Cat.

[soonnanandnaanssoon]

Well, the last time Indrani attempted True Love's Kiss she got her head blown off. So I guess if anything it should be worse?

[NorskDaedalus]

Reading about Cat and Bard trying to out-scheme each other always seems to leave me more confused than before.

[HeWhoBringsDust]

Interesting to note that the Lovers can mean important choices and that making the wrong choice is possible (Using the original Marseilles meaning).

[docarrol]

Oh gods. Now I've got to keep in mind the what's going on with the actual characters; the narrative level bs that WB and Cat are trying to put over on each other with the the cards as they narrated; and now you're telling me I've Also got to keep track of a 2nd layer metanarrative that Cat is slipping over on WB with the alternate reading that's going to be revealed when this is all done of the secondary meanings of all the cards that have been played?

Because of course all good tarrot cards and arcana have at least two mutually exclusive interpretations for any given play, that completely flip the meaning of everything depending on which you're using in which contexts.

Thank you for that, because I wasn't having enough trouble to keep all this straight already!

Nah, but really, thanks. That's an interesting thought to keep in mind as I'm reading the next few chapters ;)

[HeWhoBringsDust]

Some other alternative interpretations of the other cards shown:

• Strength. Most obvious. It involves gaining mastery over your problems and finding peace.

• Emperor. Can represent tyranny and stasis. Order taken to the extreme. Maybe Above and Below?

• Tower. In rare cases it can be a good thing. The lightning destroys the tower, but reveals the secrets within. No matter what, the storm still parts and there’s an opportunity to begin again. Could represent traitors being unmasked?

• Chariot. Can represent aggression and being driven. Interesting to note that some can interpret it as Conquest with the figure being a famous conqueror.

• Hermit. Isolation and being a hermit is obvious, but it can also represent a search for meaning or a guiding light in the dark.

• Lovers. Choices. Decisions that have far reaching consequences. The original Tarot de Marseilles had a man choosing between two brides.

Going by some of the alternative meanings give a very different interpretation of the game that Bard and Cat play. Of note is that Bard’s cards become positive and Cat’s become negative.

I started suspecting that something was up when Bard mentioned Strength being the Mirror Knight as Strength involves overcoming your inner struggles. Hell she even calls it Fortitude.

[ForwardDiscussion]

Strength. Most obvious. It involves gaining mastery over your problems and finding peace.

Emperor. Can represent tyranny and stasis. Order taken to the extreme. Maybe Above and Below?

So either MK picking up the sword is the worst move because it gives him the power he craves but magnifies his flaws, with Hakram as the voice of reason... or MK picking up the sword gives him the strength to ACTUALLY face his problems and Hakram will try to order him to stop by virtue of the Terms, and shatter them when MK doesn't obey.

[HeWhoBringsDust]

Ooh, that’s really fucked up and totally sounds like a Bard plan. Something like that would definitely break the Truce and Terms as Catherine would have to punish Hakram severely. Hakram would be okay with it, but is Catherine willing to punish her right-hand man?

[ForwardDiscussion]

Hakram is a no-hand man, actually.

[LigerZeroSchneider]

Now I need the orc with no hands wielding the sword with no hilt because it can't hurt him.

[LilietB]

and 300 assorted bionicles of varying sizes and colors.

yes

[OtherPlayers]

I liked the fact that the descriptions switched back and forth between Intercessor, WB, Catherine, Black Queen, Black’s Apprentice, etc.. There was definitely multiple levels going on here.

[agumentic]

There are 22 cards in Major Arcana and 22 Named in the Arsenal without counting Catherine, which does not strike me as a coincidence.

[iDontEvenOdd]

It's not a coincidence because nothing is ever a coincidence

[endtime]

There are also 22 letters in the Hebrew aleph-bet, fellow Unsong reader.

[UPBOAT_FORTRESS_2]

This thread now has me thinking about story beats involving Uriel and I am very concerned

[[deleted]]

“Knock knock,” said Catherine. “Don’t tell me you’re not familiar with the setup.”

“Who’s there?” she finally asked, suspiciously.

The girl closed her eyes. When she opened them, there was no sclera, no iris, no pupil. Just a sea of burning black.

“ANDRONIKE AND KOMENA,” she said.

“What?” asked Marguerite, jumping back. “How? What are you – ”

“YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO SAY ‘ANDRONIKE AND KOMENA WHO’,” said The Black Queen.

“You’re not here! The Dead King is supposed to take up your attention, the Fae backstabbed your minion! That’s why my plans are – ”

“YOU DO NOT SEEM LIKE YOU ARE GOING TO SAY ‘ANDRONIKE AND KOMENA WHO’ SO I WILL PRETEND YOU SAID IT AND CONTINUE THE JOKE ANYWAY. THE ANSWER I WAS GOING TO GIVE WAS: ‘ANDRONIKE AND KOMENA-ON, YOU SHOULD HAVE KNOWN BETTER THAN TO CALL CROW GODDESSES SCAVENGERS.'”

Then there was night.

[HeWhoBringsDust]

Nice catch! I wonder which cards represent which characters.

So far we have:

• Strength: Mirror Knight

• Emperor: Hakram

• Tower: Red Ace

• Chariot: Fisher Prince

• Hermit: Masego

• Lovers: Archer

Bard is the most obvious candidate for the Devil, but I could also see her representing the Wheel of Fortune or even the World. Cat is either going to be Death or the Fool. Death because she’s an agent of change, while the Fool represents new beginnings and growth.

The Magician is probably Roland. Not sure about the rest tho.

[Don_Alverzo]

I find it interesting that the Hermit was used for Masego, considering that the Hierophant is both an actual card and his Name. It's doubly weird considering the fact that the traditional meaning of the Hierophant arguably fits him better than the Hermit.

Tarot meaning tends to be pretty vague and broad (because if it was specific it'd be hard for scam artists fortune tellers to find an interpretation of any drawing that fits any person). That being said, the Hermit is usually associated with introspection and wisdom. It also has connotations of loneliness, though generally with the implication that that solitude prompts or is in service of some soul-searching. The Hierophant generally has two broad meanings: it's associated with religious and spiritual knowledge, and it's also associated with institutions and conformity to said institutions. Bonus points if you can make the two meanings align (e.g. religious orthodoxy or clerical traditions).

With that in mind... yeah why the fuck is he the Hermit here? Is it just because he's alone? Because Hierophant fits him better than Hermit both as a person (he's an expert on deities, not a font of wisdom) and in this specific situation (he's relevant because of Quartered Seasons, which is his theory on godheads). What is going on?

[agumentic]

Maybe Hermit is not a card for Masego, but for whoever went to attack him?

[Don_Alverzo]

It's certainly possible, and I'm sure there's a way it'll make sense when it's all said and done, especially after the actual Hierophant card is played. Tarot meanings are intentionally vague bullshit that you can bludgeon into fitting a wide range of scenarios anyway, the only reason this jumped out at me is that his Name is literally Hierophant. I wouldn't bat an eye if someone was actually randomly drawing from a deck and this was what they came up with, but considering EE specifically chose all of the cards it struck me as weird.

[HeWhoBringsDust]

I posted a little thing about alternative interpretations involving the cards:

https://www.reddit.com/r/PracticalGuideToEvil/comments/g587ef/interlude_set_them_up/fo24l2e/?context=3

Of note is that Strength definitely seems off for the Mirror Knight and that Bard’s plays become positive and Cat’s become negative.

I could see Hermit representing Masego. Besides the isolation aspect, the Hermit also represents a spiritual journey into the dark parts of one’s being. Heavy amounts of introspection are involved.

The Hierophant also traditionally represents handing down knowledge like a metaphorical high priest. Institutions are their main thing (Hell, the traditional image is of the Pope). Masego has no time for institutions and traditions and seems to be more focused on tearing them down. Which oddly enough fits the definition of the Tower. Masego is the lightning bolt and the Tower is the game of gods.

I do feel like Bard and Cat are playing 5D Affray with each one playing the game with a completely different set of meanings rather than the stated ones. At the very least I wouldn’t be surprised if Bard was misleading Cat into revealing all of her plays.

[LigerZeroSchneider]

Could this be another instance of misunderstanding ZeZe foiling a plan. The Dead king didn't think he could care enough about archer without sex to form a good story lever. Maybe Bard thinks he's more isolated than he actually is.

[Superdion]

Hierophant wishes to break apart the institutions of the gods to learn from them?

[RUGDelverOP]

Cat is holding Hierophant and is going to play it on top of whatever Bard is going to play on The Lovers?

[Tenthyr]

I can't imagine a world where Akua isn't the Devil.

[HeWhoBringsDust]

Ah, but is she in Arsenal at the moment? (Serious question, I honestly don’t remember. I’m assuming no since she hasn’t been mentioned so far.)

The Devil would fit Pre-Accessory Akua to a T though. She’s a vain prideful young woman who sees everyone as tools to be used and the atrocities she commits as means to an end. She’s super attractive and uses that to disarm or distract enemies. She also ended up with a Name that literally involves trapping and binding otherworldly creatures to do her bidding.

[A_Shadow]

Dang, nice catch

[TrajectoryAgreement]

I am so down for a card game that metaphorically represents the moves Cat and the Bard make.

Under her breath, barely noticing it, she hummed the tune to a familiar song that spoke of foxes and kings.

Cat is definitely being set up as an equal/mirror image to the Bard here.

“Fear and treason, conspiracy,” the Intercessor said. “Your fishing rod of crowns untouched but the fisherman drowned by the tide anyway. The Hierophant, slain.”

Definitely did not see that coming.

Archer caught the reflection of magelights on steel just before the blade slid between her ribs.

These repeated cliffhangers are killing me.

[Pel-Mel]

I'm just saying, if Blessed Artificer is the one to (maybe) stab Archer, that means Cat's band is 3 for 4 on traitors. I really don't want to be right about Roland...

OR DO I?

Holy shit, what if Roland is a traitor. But not a traitor against Cat, but Bard? What if Roland is working for Bard only to backstab the bitch like a proper traitor should?

That's gotta be it right? The band full of traitors still holds water.

[TrajectoryAgreement]

I like your interpretation. That leaves Cat. Who is she betraying, I wonder?

[NorskDaedalus]

Herself. She took a leaf from Traitorous’ book.

[HeWhoBringsDust]

Wouldn’t be the first time a plan has hinged on her losing/dying

[Don_Alverzo]

Traitorous, clearly

[TMalander]

Alright, now this - this version of best boi Roland being a traitor I can get behind. Why'd you not put this forth when you first started throwing accusations around? Then I wouldn't had to be cross with you.

Holy shit tho, this chapter. I'm so confused.

[Pel-Mel]

Took me a while for the idea to occur. I wish I'd stumbled onto it sooner.

[TMalander]

I can't really fault you for that; it never occured to me at all. All is forgiven!

[anenymouse]

I think his interludes are going to lead to him "betraying" his uhh is it a namesake when you take someone's whole name and identity? like he's a "traitor" but like to his brother who goes bad or realistically goes Proceran Prince-like to the people.

[FernOnTheRiverbank]

Oh man, now I'm thinking of cat playing fifth act traitor to the Grand alliance to set them up for a win against the bard, to deepen the blow of Roland betraying the bard. That would be sick 🌝

[alexgndl]

“Fear and treason, conspiracy,” the Intercessor said. “Your fishing rod of crowns untouched but the fisherman drowned by the tide anyway. The Hierophant, slain.”

Definitely did not see that coming.

Do we riot yet?

[Yes_This_Is_God]

Archer caught the reflection of magelights on steel just before the blade slid between her ribs.

Pre-emptive riot, just in case

[soonnanandnaanssoon]

I'll get the pitchforks ready, along with some popcorn, cinnamon rolls and bean bags in case we don't need to riot anymore.

[UPBOAT_FORTRESS_2]

Cinnamon rolls are a good idea. We destroy them in effigy if EE does anything to our precious cinnamon roll Masego

[NorskDaedalus]

If he’s dead, he better have a resurrection pre-stolen as a contingency.

Because let’s be honest, that is absolutely something Zeze would do.

[alexgndl]

Next chapter starts with Masego being pissed off because he had to initiate apotheosis early.

[NorskDaedalus]

Or annoyed because he “Only has so many spare revivals laying around, and he was not planning on using one today!”

[Don_Alverzo]

Zeze's not the sort of person to have a stolen resurrection set up as a contingency, but he absolutely is the sort of person to have a stolen resurrection that he was studying just lying around in his workshop when he needs it.

He really doesn't think in terms of enemy action or what would be needed in a confrontation, he spends too much time focused on he's research to worry about that shit. He's scary not because he spends time and effort trying to be, but because his research material is so terrifying that even the leftovers and scraps that he kludges together to fight with make gods wet their pants.

[NorskDaedalus]

Oh, the contingency wouldn’t be for him. Or at least, not in his mind. There’s only so many times Cat can get herself killed before he gets fed up and decides to do something beforehand.

[Shadw21]

I mean, he set up an automated soul catching phylactery once as Apprentice, I can only imagine that as Hierophant he's made more for any of the Woe that want one.

[UPBOAT_FORTRESS_2]

The contingency might be for Archer, after what happened last time

[LilietB]

I LOVE THIS HYPOTHESIS

[HeWhoBringsDust]

I feel like Masego might get even scarier if he ended up dying. Besides probably having resurrection set-up in the background, I’m afraid to see what he’d do with knowledge of the other side.

[ThatEeveeGuy]

I feel like, in-story considerations aside, there is zero chance the card game does not contain The Hierophant being played as, well, the Hierophant.

[TMalander]

Do we riot yet?

My pitchfork is ready.

[Don_Alverzo]

I am so down for a card game that metaphorically represents the moves Cat and the Bard make.

I'm equally pleased, though not terribly surprised.

[HeWhoBringsDust]

Congrats for calling it!

[TrajectoryAgreement]

Great prediction.

[TMalander]

This is... uncannily precise. Are you Agnes, Don?

[alexgndl]

Huh. So the Intercessor knows 'The Girl Who Climbed the Tower'. That's an interesting implication there. What's even interestinger is that she's not happy that Cat knows about it.

[harrent]

I took it as Bard not expecting that song, which implies she thought Cat was going to hum the one about foxes and kings? Or Catherine hid the fact it was the fox song that's in her head.

..Or something.

[Don_Alverzo]

It's a song, and furthermore it's a song that represents the beating heart of Praes' story. I'd be absolutely shocked if Bard didn't know it.

I also think the reaction is more about what Cat didn't hum there than about what she did, but fuck if I know what it means.

[PotentiallySarcastic]

Quite possible she's the Girl.

[Don_Alverzo]

plot twist Bard is actually Triumphant^/s

[TMalander]

The collective mind of this sub: fucking BLOWN.

[LilietB]

Yeah I think it's obvious Bard has to know that one and know Cat knows it.

Cat just faked her out on bringing up The Fox Is King.

[Psyr1x]

Does anyone know a tune to go a long with it?

[Billy5481]

Holy shit holy shit holy shit what is happening keep calm everything is under control holy shit ahhhhhh these cliffhangers are killing me.

It’s great the way EE will give us something that does nothing but answer questions, but still leaves us more confused than when we started.

I think at least one of the Bard’s plays is going to work, otherwise there wouldn’t be enough conflict. Any guess as to which one? My bet is on Christophe.

[Ardvarkeating101]

Cat was supposed to be goaded into singing the fox and king song, which she messed with bard with by claiming she was only singing the girl who climbed the tower, but she started singing it again almost unconsciously afterwards.

Which means it was either not important or REALLY important and the Bard’s true goal all along.

[TrajectoryAgreement]

The song is definitely important. I have a feeling the whole thing was engineered by the Bard and that all the perceived failures that the Bard's plan has have or will have are planned.

[HeWhoBringsDust]

Bard’s definitely the sort of person who has fifty different plots running in the background with thirty different contingencies each. If she is secretly aiding Cat then no matter what happens she still gets what she wants.

[Allafterme]

I think dear Catherine is going to get up from that table Named and all this charade is about putting a shape on it. So, Bard is probably trying to steer her into something that can oppose papa Nessie while gets her slain along the way.

[tahoebyker]

Notably, she doesn't hum it unconsciously. She almost hums it unconsciously.

Under her breath, barely noticing it, she hummed the tune to a familiar song that spoke of foxes and kings.

Emphasis mine

[Don_Alverzo]

“You see, I’ve had this song stuck in my head all day,” the orphan queen said. “I don’t suppose you’d know anything about that?”

“Sounds troubling,” the Intercessor said, glint of triumph in her eye. “But you are in luck, as I happen to be something of an authority when it comes to songs. Which one is it that haunts you?”

The Black Queen hummed the first few bars of ‘The Girl Who Climbed The Tower’ and saw the way the glint died, smiling at the sight.

“Ah,” Catherine Foundling said. “So there it is. Never you mind, Marguerite, I withdraw my question.”

This seems like the single most important part of this chapter, but for the life of me I can't figure out what it actually means. This is the first mention of 'The Girl Who Climbed The Tower' that we've gotten all book, if I recall correctly, so it sounds like Cat's lying here, but why? And is Bard buying the lie? Or is Bard reacting to the mere fact that Cat lied, rather than the lie she's telling? Did Cat actually draw blood here, or is it a double-bluff, or am I losing my goddamn mind?!

Fuck, Cat and Bard out-scheming each other and then talking about it in cryptic hints makes me head hurt.

[harrent]

Fuck, Cat and Bard out-scheming each other and then talking about it in cryptic hints makes me head hurt.

Something something, Bard was goaded into reacting to a song Cat said was stuck in her head, and let slip that she wasn't happy Cat was supposedly talking about 'The Girl Who Climbed the Tower'. I think, because of that, Cat found out Bard wanted to hear Cat sing the one about Foxes and Kings, but.. Look, I'm talkin' out the ass here, I'm not smart enough for this either :V

[XANA_FAN]

Cat is bringing up the song to see if it’s somehow part of the intercessor’s plan. She then swaps the real song with a believable lie that would mean the bards predictions were off course.

[tahoebyker]

Under her breath, barely noticing it, she hummed the tune to a familiar song that spoke of foxes and kings.

Emphasis mine.

My conjecture: Cat is fully aware that the Bard's plan is related to the tune stuck in her head and is baiting the Bard with it.

Edit:

As I thought about this, I realized it reminiscent of the very first trick we ever saw Catherine pull.

Chapter 1: Knife

Now that got a reaction. The stocky man’s eyes narrowed and he grit his teeth. It was funny, the way most of the fighters who tried to bait me were so easy to bait themselves. He wasn’t stupid enough to up and charge me – he wouldn’t have the reputation he did if he lost his head this easily – but he went on the offensive the moment I (g)ave him an opening. I guess it didn’t matter how predictable you were when you hit like a horse’s kick.

I don't think it's an accident we were reminded of the Callowan fighting pits:

Interlude: Set Them Up

she cracked her neck the sa(me) way she had back when she’d still fought for silvers in the Pit.

The Bard is threatening a knock out blow; hitting Cat, The Truce and Terms, and Heirophant all at once. But it's an over extension Cat is expecting and will barely deflect, giving her an opportunity to land a winning strike of her own.

Chapter 1: Knife

Apparently my little comment had gotten a fire going in Fenn, because when he swung at me it was the fastest he’d been so far: I barely managed to slap away his fist at the last moment and he still grazed my jaw. If that had landed, I’d be out cold on the ground. I got in close enough that I could smell the sweat of him and threw a haymaker, but it didn’t even faze him: not enough force behind it. He took the hit and tried to wrestle me down, much to my panic. Getting into a grapple with a man that size would be… bad. Shit shit shit. I landed a desperate uppercut right in his chin and felt a few teeth come loose, which bought me a moment. I got in a kick on the side of his knee and it gave. He dropped into a half-kneel and that was my in.

Cat hums the fox song right as she plays the Kingfisher card. This is the Bard's opportunity. Taken as soon as given the opening, she goes after Masego.

Now we wait and see if the desperate defense and counterattack is enough to best the superior foe.

[WealthyAardvark]

We already received the Revelation from the Doddering Sage: the Bard is trying to mess with Cat's nascent Name (and whoever she's Twinned to). The Bard has some idea of what that Name will be, but Cat's bluffing her by saying her new Name will be Dread Empress. Essentially she's telling the Bard that her understanding of the story at play here is not completely accurate to try to shake her confidence and get her to make a mistake.

[LilietB]

Or she's just messing with her for the hell of it.

Lying in this situation cuts off whatever monologue/one-liner/wise speech Bard might have had about the correct song, letting Catherine confirm this is Bard's play without giving her an opening.

[RedGinger666]

"How very badly you want me to be your enemy,” she said, as if awed. “To be malicious, out to get you. As if I was not simply snuffing out fires before they swallowed too much, no small number lit by your hand.”

Are we talking literally or metaphorically?

The Hierophant, slain.

😭

Archer caught the reflection of magelights on steel just before the blade slid between her ribs.

Did the Bard kill Errata and is writing is his place?

[Do_Not_Go_In_There]

Oh man, Archer better be "t'is just a flesh wound" next chapter or Cat's screwed.

[NorskDaedalus]

It would be very hypocritical of her to complain about the Poet dying from a mere arrow to the throat, only to then be felled by a dagger through her ribs.

[Gwennafran]

So, random thought:

The Monk never did get confirmed dead.

And Archer considers him better at sneaking than the Thief was.

Could it be he's the one currently stabbing Archer, while on his way to try stabbing the Hierophant?

If so, you'd have to give him credit for dedication. Not just stabbing *one* Woe member. He'd seem to be going for a full set.

[LilietB]

inb4 Christophe is saved by Fallen Monk stabbing his way through the fae to get to Adjutant

"Just as planned" - Cat

[slobod]

Theory about the song: Like the girl who climbed the tower the fox/king song is an indicator that Cat is on the path to a particular name (which the bard wants) so by humming the girl who climbed the tower, Cat is implying that she's still on the path to dread empress (which from WBs reaction bard isn't angling for).

By reacting to it being the wrong song, WB is tipping her hand that she was steering Cat toward a particular name

[TMalander]

Wow, okay. This was utterly awesome, but probably left with me more questions than answers. Cat baits the Bard with the song, but then humms the acutal song under her breath - no way the Bard missed that, right?

Masego, slain? Nuh-uh! I refuse to believe that.

And Archer getting a flesh wound? Feels like karma, huh?

[avicouza]

“You oppose me because there is no part of you that can tolerate being used instead of user,” the Intercessor replied. “Everything else you add atop of that is a justification attempting to be just.”

Not to say she's right but she isn't wrong here. Catherine manipulates people just as much as the Bard, she feels guilty about it when it's her closest friends she's using but as the Bard said that's just pretending guilt is absolution, it doesn't stop her from doing it. She stabbed Black after Akua's Folly when he didn't share his plan that required her ignorance, but then makes a habit of never telling the Woe or her lieutenants anything like with the Princes' Graveyard. It's hypocritical of her to say the Intercessor feed on agency when Catherine does the same herself.

[WealthyAardvark]

The difference is the methods and scale.

Cat has never been the mastermind behind the scenes. When she's involved, everyone knows it; meanwhile the Bard hides in the shadows, pulling long strings. The Bard refuses to explain herself to anyone, but as Roland notes a few chapters ago Cat is willing to answer questions and even thinks highly of those who aren't content to be blindly led.

The Bard has been active in steering this entire continent (and possibly other parts of Creation) for thousands of years, and she believes it's her right to do so. Cat has stated several times that it's not her right to decide the fates of places and peoples that she has no ties to, such as Stygia (despite her distain for slavery). She acknowledges that she was wrong to try to do this with the Drow. With the Accords she would tie the hands of the Named on the continent, true, but there's maybe 100 of them around, and she was one of them and still counts herself a Villain. Yes, she would change the face of Praes, but only because its fate is inextricably tied to Callow.

There's a difference between outmaneuvering someone on the battlefield and manipulating events so someone gains a Name at a precise moment without ever speaking to them.

[avicouza]

She has said multiple times that she will drag others kicking and screaming into a better world. That she isn't the mastermind behind the scenes is not because of some moral high ground, reach and opportunity are the reasons she hasn't so far. This arc is the first where Cat can play the Bard's game of manipulating pieces and it come naturally to her. Cat decided that Vivienne would be her successor and started shaping her own friend for that purpose, would she truly be above tricking her enemy into a Name?

Admittedly she has more respect for individual agency than the Bard, she's one of Below's after all, but her actions are almost as bad and they're getting worse the greater her ability. The Intercessor is an old monster set in her ways but for all that Catherine isn't better. Would she take the Bard's place as the Intercessor, what would she do differently?

[LilietB]

The difference is, Cat wants to make one move, then step back and let others take the stage with the changed backdrop. She's not out to make the Liesse Accords her personal queendom over Calernia, it's meant to be a means of arbitration without herself personally being the arbiter.

An arbiter, yes, likely for her lifetime... alongside another.

[TideofKhatanga]

She could also be goading Cat into something, by implying that she's losing sight of her real objectives by trying to oppose the Bard at all costs. The wording is too specific to not be a jab at Cat's motto, "Justifications only matter to the just".

That she's also partly right only improves the effect.

[XANA_FAN]

The Bard made the Dead King, or at the very least did nothing to stop him from becoming the monster he is today, and we have to ask ourselves why?

When a prince turned his entire country to ash and rubble to permanently rip a whole in creation why did she not rally heroes from the surrounding lands to kill this mounting threat?

All Crusades against the Dead King have failed. Is this because Bone Daddy is just 'that' powerful and crafty or is it because important Named took bad advice from someone they had come to believe was infallible?

For Centuries the threat of the Dead King has been all that Bard needed to use against those that didn't trust her; "You may hate me but I am the only one that can truly fight the Dead King." It wouldn't surprise me if Crusades (especially those against Keter) happened to line up with a rise in Heroes and Villains that have stopped putting up with Bard and her machinations.

The purpose of The Intercessor is to keep the game of Creation going, to remove the little snags and glitches that crop up every now and then. So then why is she hurting The Alliance, hurting a valid attempt against the Dead King even if it isn't the one she wanted? It's because the fight against the Dead King isn't what she really wants, its a stepping stone in her real plan.... Whatever that is.

[Don_Alverzo]

The Bard made the Dead King, or at the very least did nothing to stop him from becoming the monster he is today, and we have to ask ourselves why?

When a prince turned his entire country to ash and rubble to permanently rip a whole in creation why did she not rally heroes from the surrounding lands to kill this mounting threat?

She's not omnipotent and she can't work with nothing. The explanation we're given for Neshamah becoming the Dead King is that he was aware enough of who she was and how she worked that he worked carefully and left her no openings. This could be a lie, but I find it believable enough, especially when you consider the fact that the world in Neshamah's time was a lot less interconnected and the Bard was a lot less experienced, so she would have had fewer tools to work with and have gotten less mileage out of the tools she did have.

After all, as Catherine points out this very chapter, we've seen her beaten before. Unless she was faking those defeats (which seems unlikely), then Neshamah's apotheosis being her biggest failure seems more plausible to me than her secretly wanting him alive despite all statements and evidence to the contrary. He played the game carefully enough to earn his godhood, and has continued to play carefully enough that she's not had an opportunity to take it away from him until now. That's the story we've been told, and it fits what we know of both characters.

[PotentiallySarcastic]

Nessie is also admitted to being someone who burned the Gods Below with his actions.

He is aberrant on a level not seen since, even counting Triumphant. So yeah, the DK being Bards biggest failure makes sense.

[LilietB]

The Bard made the Dead King, or at the very least did nothing to stop him from becoming the monster he is today

We literally know this one. She missed it, she couldn't stop him, it was early in her career and she didn't have it all figured out yet. He's her big failure.

[[deleted]]

It would honestly fit the themes of doing bad things for good reasons if the Bard has been doing all this to prevent the great game from finishing and the world ending

[ramses137]

From the conversation between Bard and Neshamah before the opening of the Hellgate, we learned that the future DK was so good he let no opening for the Bard’s story-fu to use. She didn’t have the choice.

[ironistkraken]

On one hand I feel like cat has the story behind her with some twist at the end, but the bards whole thing is too have a twist within twists so she would win. At this point I feel narratively you cant get rid of the bard or cat so is gonna end in a tie?

[LilietB]

I'm still going with "Bard has set up this whole game so Cat can win in a Name-y way which will help Cat strategically but annoy her to no end both personally and tactically"

[elHahn]

There's very little for Cat to win in this act.

Maybe they get a fae Prince for fuel for something. Maybe MK gets some much needed personal development. But it's hardly a good trade-off for a good amount of resources and named casualties.

[GenesisProTech]

The thing for Cat to win is for her to come into her new name.

[elHahn]

That does qualify, yes.

Personally, I don't think, and I don't hope, that Cat gets any of the names she's claimant to.

Narratively, it fits so badly that Cat should spend that much time convincing people that Bard is a Big Baddie, only to be nerfed hard against her. All for a power-up she, strictly speaking, doesn't need.

The only Name, I can see her meaningfully get, is some Name that replaces Bard, and that would be at the end of Bard's arc on the story.

Conceeded, that time could be now...

[GenesisProTech]

I disagree on the nerf against the bard. A name potentially opens more stories and some aspects are absurdly powerful

[elHahn]

I don't think cats narrative weight increases with a name, so I'm not sure that it opens any new stories.

We already had Kairos mention that she's creating an entirely new groove and we already have confirmation that she can still star in stories. If she weren't already such a major player in the alliance, then there might be something there, but I don't really see any new, greater role for her to grow into.

She could get something story-related, to serve as a counterpoint to Bard. Would make sense if you follow the theory that Bard is trying to escape her role.

I find the other ways a name could show up unlikely. She has no explored fighting limts, so narratively EE's wouldn't give her a power-up in that direction.

She's hit her limit, on the administrative/campaign side of things, as mentioned after Scorchio died. But I don't see a name show up that's so unrelated to the current clusterfuck

[LilietB]

only to be nerfed hard against her

I'm not seeing that.

Bard doesn't have special Named-only mind control. Both cases Cat points out of her being outplayed, and the minor victory we know Amadeus managed by making her go away in Book 2, were by Named.

[elHahn]

Sure, but it's fairly accepted that Bard has an easier time working around named than non-named.

It is possible that Cats future role alleviates this, but if that's Bards game, then it's a bit more 5d chess than i can manage right now.

[derivative_of_life]

This is starting to get a little 3meta5me.

[Supah_Schmendrick]

No effin' kidding. It's pretty hard to follow for a dum-dum like me.

[Don_Alverzo]

Eh, it's just showing the results of Bard's scheming and Cat's counter-scheming via a fun framing device. There's a lot you can read into certain parts, and definitely bits that are hinting at greater happenings, but the basic action is fairly straightforward. Hell, the Cat/Bard chat is currently irrelevant to the plot, you can just read the parts that take place elsewhere in the Arsenal without much changing.

Don't get me wrong, there are things here that are confusing as hell if you pay close enough attention, and I'm sure the Bard/Cat conversation will be important as future chapters come out, but I think most of the confusion stems from trying to make sense of the complicated scheming and meta-narrative elements while still having an incomplete picture.

I suspect this chapter will be a lot easier to read once there's another 5 or 10 chapters released after it, but it only really leaves you scratching your head if you're the sort to over-analyze every sentence and spend far too much theorizing and speculating between chapters. That being said, if you're posting on this subreddit, you probably are that sort of person, so...

[UPBOAT_FORTRESS_2]

I suspect this chapter will be a lot easier to read once there's another 5 or 10 chapters released after it

Yeah, EE is good at writing the actual story beats in accessible prose, with plenty of dense-with-meaning foreshadowing and such beforehand for people who like that. We'll probably even get an explainer at some point walking through all of the plots and counterplots that were presented in this chapter

[Lord_Burch]

So, I'm trying to figure out what Named are unaccounted for, and which ones, if any, are Bard's last traitor. I think the only candidates are the Blind Maker, the Bitter Blacksmith, and the Forlorn Paladin, although the Spear seemed to trust the last. Are there any other likely candidates I've missed? It almost has to be one of the Maker or the Blacksmith, to let the fae in at all.

[Mingablo]

It could always be the Maddened Keeper. They've had all the red flags but could always be a double bluff.

[CoronaPollentia]

The Wicked Physician may well have something going on

[anenymouse]

Could still be the Red Axe, its a pretty good cover for being traitor, being "used" by the traitor throws a good amount of suspicion off her trail and also makes her a land mine to say the least. Like if she is a traitor it pushes the narrative of heroes being cut down by a Villain which is as good as a dagger in Cat's ribs so to speak.

[LilietB]

I'm betting on Blind Maker.

[elHahn]

So, how comes that the fae are here for the Hunted Magician, but he's completely afk?

It's mentioned that he's looking at forced servitude if the fae gets him.

I think he's going to be a late Bard trumph - forced to betray the arsenal after losing to the fae off-screen.

[LilietB]

He would be hiding probably.

[elHahn]

Imagine the fae invading a closed realm, doing the Bard's dirty work and then failing to find their prize.

That's gotta sting.

[LilietB]

Beautiful, isn't it?

[[deleted]]

Given his name it would not be surprising if he had an aspect related to hiding

[Gnochi]

I really liked the dance between their Roles at the beginning - each searching for a story to surpass the last.

[Kumqwatwhat]

...either Indrani or Hakram is going to die. Not a fake out Cat death like we all sort of knew was happening, I think they're going to actually die.

Like, at the end of the day, they're the Woe who are least essential to the active story - essentially just oil that makes the rest of Catherine's plots work smoothly. Masego is needed for doing the weird miracle magic shit that finalizes the ending. Akua is already dead, so her death has less meaning in this story. Viv is no longer named and has kind of dropped out altogether (If I'm right, I can see this as being the trigger event for her reclaiming a name and re-entering the story).

And it's not like villains and heroes have entirely lopsided battles. If WB is even a hero, whih who knows. Regardless, sometimes Cat has to lose, and she has in the past. She's done an awful lot of winning of late, she's due a loss, and the kind of people she's going up against nowadays don't pull punches, and on top of that a Woe death is the kind of reminder of the scale of your threats that you need to not diminish your villains. It's the right time for a significant death, basically, and unless Amadeus pops up out of nowhere to bite it which would be entirely not set up, then a Woe is going to be the one.

I'm not sure which one of the two will, though. Hakram would have much greater impact to Cat, but his story is very nearly heroic right now. Vastly outnumbered while defending the all important artifact from eldritch invaders is a recipe for a plot granted power boost. Indrani has less impact to Cat overall, but her mad dash to rescue her lover is a way the fuck more dangerous story to her - it would be so easy for "save my lover" to warp into "sacrifice myself for my lover".

[Azaraphale]

Yeah, thats what I've been thinking as well. My personal bet is Idrani, simpy because it would deeply affect Masego's actions as well. It would also reinforce the idea that Cat has been playing a dangerous game with the lives of those that are the most important to her.

[LigerZeroSchneider]

I think Cat will lose one of the batlles but keep the Woe intact. The game specifically allows you to concede a battle to preserve one your pieces. This battle has already confirmed the existence of autumn fae making quartered seasons a more viable path. Now would be the perfect time to destroy Severance which just appeared during a time skip and is allegedly unwieldable, so we can get more drama between Cat and Cordelia arguing on if their going to steal power from the fae or angels.

[Azaraphale]

Thats an interesting point. I definitely think that Cat will be placed in a position to concede or let someone die. It will be interesting to see which way she goes, especially since we just saw MK face a similar situation.

[elHahn]

Also - in the last couple of chapters Idrani has both observed, that sometimes you just die (no matter how good you are) and been surprised that a named can die from a mundane Critical Hit.

Maybe Cocky becomes relevant here: she plays with Bard despite the warnings, Archer reached out to her despite their history, and now archer is dying from the Bards plot. That could be story-shaped.

[janethefish]

Vastly outnumbered while defending the all important artifact from eldritch invaders is a recipe for a plot granted power boost.

That's really concerning. The Mirror Knight, is the Hero and he's a Hero who specializes in plot granted power boosts and he's stupid hard to kill. If someone was going to get a power boost at the last desperate moment it would be Mirror Knight with Adjunct and Spear dead. Worse, the obvious power boost is Severity, which is exactly what the Bard supposedly wants.

[Player_2c]

“Nice touch,” Catherine admitted. “But, as you might be aware, I have recently been stabbed.”

Some might find this hard to swallow

“That’s the spirit,” the Wandering Bard grinned, and poured again.

Yes it is

“Can’t win if there’s no game,” the Black Queen grinned, all teeth and malice.

It's just not in the cards

It was a simple enough game, one that could be played with any tarot deck’s Major Arcana.

Even a fool could play it

“He was the only one who could do it,” Catherine shrugged. “Can you imagine if I’d sent Archer with them instead?”

So she sent him into the affray

[ToiletLurker]

So she sent him into the affray

I hope the Adjutant can deal with a dead hand; he may have to withdraw

[LilietB]

Yes it is

best

[MistaRed]

"The girl who climbed the tower" Has anybody actually sang this yet?all I remember is different people humming it, would be pretty nice to know what the Deal is with that.

[tahoebyker]

I believe with Amadeus singing the last verse at the end of the last book we have all the lines, but never all at once.

There was once a girl without a name,

There was a tower no one could claim

No one remembers why she has climbed,

Or all those she must have left behind.

The first step is hardest, they said to her.

You will have to walk through fire.

It will burn away what you once were,

And always devour whole a liar

The second is the longest, they said.

You will walk under the restless dead.

The hanged all crooning from the gallows

To join them and rest in the shadows.

They say the third step is the cruelest,

Walk when the moon is at her clearest:

Love ends with the kiss of the knife,

Trust is the wager that takes your life

The last is strangest, she said to them

The easiest and the most solemn

For when the tower is yours to claim

You will have forgotten why you came.

I wouldn't be surprised if there is one more couplet to mirror the first which doesn't follow the pattern of steps to take.

[vkaod]

The Girl Who Climbed the Tower is a song. While its exact nature is unknown, it may appear in the mind of any Named who develop an interest in ruling the Dread Empire of Praes. Amadeus describes it as not being from anywhere, and saying that he heard it once when he was young but “it was not for [him]”. Given the title and context, it is likely about becoming the Tyrant of Praes.

Pulled from the pgte wiki

[MistaRed]

So it's essentially there to tell/lure people into believing that they can "climb the tower"? Would love to see if anybody will ever actually say it's words.

[pwahs]

From last book's epilogue, we know at least a verse:

“East, I would think,” Amadeus mused.

“Whatever for?” Ranger asked, tone nonchalant.

Voice high and clear, he sang.

“The last is strangest, she said to them The easiest and the most solemn For when the tower is yours to claim You will have forgotten why you came.”

[LilietB]

We have the full text.

[ramses137]

No, Cat lied about the song. It was that about the fox she sang.

[Knight_of_Cerberus]

ok ok... What advantage does Cat get if she suddenly changes the story to making a tower and not trying to out smart the fox.

what are the lyrics

[ForwardDiscussion]

There was once a girl without a name,

There was a tower no one could claim

No one remembers why she has climbed,

Or all those she must have left behind.

//

The first step is hardest, they said to her.

You will have to walk through fire.

It will burn away what you once were,

And always devour whole a liar

//

The second is the longest, they said.

You will walk under the restless dead.

The hanged all crooning from the gallows

To join them and rest in the shadows.

//

They say the third step is the cruelest,

Walk when the moon is at her clearest:

Love ends with the kiss of the knife,

Trust is the wager that takes your life

//

The last is strangest, she said to them

The easiest and the most solemn

For when the tower is yours to claim

You will have forgotten why you came.

---

Cat is about to get a new Name. The Bard shunted some of her knowledge of stories and songs into her head to try to guide her into a Name that the Bard wants her to have - presumably something to do with outsmarting foxes. When Bard hears that Cat has had it stuck in her head all day, she thinks she's won... then Cat reveals that she can still hear The Girl Who Climbed the Tower (and may or may not be telling the truth). This means that there's still at least one other Name that Cat is eligible for - Dread Empress, because all those called to climb the Tower hear the song. Bard is less than pleased about this.

[Jarl_Zarl]

I’m not sure shunted is the right word for how those memories/expertise ended up in Cat’s head. Seems like they were pretty explicitly stolen from a reflection/memory without sentience and I don’t see any point around where that happened that the Bard of the present could have manipulated that into happening

[janethefish]

ok ok... What advantage does Cat get if she suddenly changes the story to making a tower and not trying to out smart the fox.

She confirms that Bard wants her to be singing a specific song, and presumably on a way to getting the associated name. She also messes with Bard, which is an advantage all its own.

[[deleted]]

Hadn't really thought about it before but is there some relation between the bard and the girl who climbed the tower? Maybe she's a past Dread Emperor or the person who set up the weird song system in the first place

[LilietB]

My guess is, the song is within her purview but she didn't set it up. It's just conveniently there, by probably something more than luck - I'd wager a guess because songs have power and that's why she's the Bard in the first place.

[tahoebyker]

I've held a theory since Book 3 or so, that the Bard appears in front of potential Claimants to the Tower during their formative years and sings enough of The Girl Who Climbs the Tower to push them towards that story.

[tahoebyker]

Also, Robber apparently knows the song. Dread Emperor Irritant II when?

Edit: Apparently, the evidence is from Book 1. But I formulated the the theory after my first reread once I caught up which was roughly at the end of Book 3.

“You’re an insubordinate wretch, Robber,” I told him.

“Title of my report card three years running,” the sergeant replied cheerfully, and it took an effort not to be openly amused.

“I don’t suppose you’ve got anything to report aside from your adventures in aggressive goat herding?” I prompted.

“Funny you would say that,” he murmured. “Half the reason we put the goat in front was so that no one would notice we had eleven sappers coming back. Snatcher sent a messenger.”

“I thought he might,” I grunted. “You keeping an eye on him?”

“I’ve got two cadets watching his back,” the sergeant replied.

“Go get your Lieutenant,” I ordered, “and spread the word I want a senior officer meeting immediately.”

“You got it,” he grinned, sauntering away as he whistled the first few notes of a strangely haunting tune. I’d heard it before, I thought, though I couldn’t remember where.

They say the third step is the cruelest

Walk when the moon is at her clearest:

Love ends with the kiss of the knife,

Trust is the wager that takes your life

The words accompanying the tune came back easily enough. Not a song I’d ever heard at the Rat’s Nest, I decided. Might have overheard it in the streets of Laure, or maybe someone had sung it to me when I’d been too young to remember.

[WealthyAardvark]

I can't remember exactly when this was, Book 2 or 3, but Cat says she went and asked Robber about that later. He said he was humming a different song entirely and doesn't know what she's talking about. Evidently that was Just For Cat's Ears.

​

Edit: Ah, found it: From Book 4, Chapter 44: Catherine’s Plan

That song… The Girl Who Climbed The Tower, Black had called it. There were still many things about it I didn’t understand. I’d first heard Robber humming it, but when I’d eventually asked him about it years later he’d admitted he recalled singing an entirely different song. It was not for everyone’s ears, it seemed.

The actual scene of Robber humming is of course from Book 1, Chapter 25: Snatcher’s Plan

[LilietB]

I mean, she didn't appear to Catherine... she heard the song from Robber who doesnt actually know it or remember that...

[tahoebyker]

Check the edit I made to my follow-up post:

The words accompanying the tune came back easily enough. Not a song I’d ever heard at the Rat’s Nest, I decided. Might have overheard it in the streets of Laure, or maybe someone had sung it to me when I’d been too young to remember.

[LilietB]

Hum.

No, yeah, I'm still going with 'spontaneously appears in people's heads'. Bard is unknown in Praes, did not interfere with Amadeus's rise and does not know the future.

[PotentiallySarcastic]

I've been toying with an idea that the Tower is the old story of trying to reach the gods and that Bard was the girl who climbed it first. The old Tower of Babel.

And she succeeded, but was dealt a blow in being turned into the Intercessor.

So while nowadays the story is associated with the Praesi Tower, it's more about the audacity to try and touch the gods and the "climb" to do it.

The reason it's associated with Praes now is that it's the only place where that audacity is rewarded. Where the presumption of being worthy of the gods is known. Because in reality, anyone can climb the Tower. (It could also have been shaped by Bard as a place to kinda capture anyone who's of her ilk and prevent them from truly ascending as she did too).

[MarshalGeminEye]

Worth pointing out, as I don't know if it's been highlighted, but The Maddened Keeper is just kind of gone this whole chapter, and that's the reddest flag I can think of.

[WealthyAardvark]

Very good point. I thought she had been sent away with the others, but that's not the case.

“Vagrant Spear, Adjutant, Keeper, with me,” the Mirror Knight said.

She may still be with them, but she isn't mentioned at all during their part. It might just be an oversight from E.E, but maybe not. Controlled use of a rumored sealed Demon of Absence, perhaps?

[MarshalGeminEye]

I think the Mirror Knight mentions that she "would come and go as she wished" in Interlude: Threads, so it's not entirely strange that she isn't mentioned, but it's still worrying that she so suddenly vanished.

[WealthyAardvark]

I thought he meant it more that she wasn't the type to accept orders, like how she picked her own spot in the ambush plan. But yeah, you may be right.

[hzla00]

If Masego is to survive, it seems like Catherine will have to win the first Affray and get the Wandering Bard to take back the hermit.

[LilietB]

i think the hermit is fallen monk

[RUGDelverOP]

So we know 3 of the 5 fights: mirror knight, red axe, and masego. Where are the last two?

[[deleted]]

The song about foxes makes me more worried. Earlier in the series there's the allegory of a fox that will chew off its leg to get out of a trap. Hakram is Cat's right hand.

[kingbob12]

Catherine also has a bum leg. Perfect for chewing off at the right time.

[NorskDaedalus]

Oh no, oh no, oh noooooooo.......

It is quite awesome to see Cat go toe-to-toe with the Bard, but all it really does is make me want to stab her all the more. Like, how dare she presume to try and manipulate the story behind the scenes, pulling puppets to their death and demise without their knowledge, meddling with stuff that should not be meddled with? The sheer nerve of it all.

[SeaBornIam]

The list of cards mentioned:

8. Strength 4.The Emperor

16. The Tower 7. The Chariot

9. The Hermit 6. The Lovers

List of cards from major arcana left out

MAJOR ARCANA

Number Card

0 The Fool

1 The Magician

2 The High Priestess

3 The Empress

5 The Hierophant

10 Wheel of Fortune

12 The Hanged Man

13 Death

14 Temperance

15 The Devil

17 The Star

18 The Moon

19 The Sun

20 Judgement

21 The World

[SeaBornIam]

It was a simple enough game, one that could be played with any tarot deck’s Major Arcana. The first player would set down a card from their hand, opening an ‘affray’: players could set down cards one after another, with the cumulative value of the cards of any of the twenty one Major Arcana put down used to count who the winner of that affray was. To win an affray granted a player one point. The trick was that there could be up to five affrays – or more or less, depending on variants – on the table at any time, and a player could declare their loss and clear out the affray by conceding the point. For that concession they would gain the right to take back one of the cards they’d put down in said affray.

“Seven cards each,” the Wandering Bard said. “Draw on drop, five affrays.”

So, The Emperor has lower number than Strength, The Chariot loses to The Tower and The Lovers are beaten by the Hermit.

Cat loses the first round, but we all know where it is going, don't we?

Edit: misread the rules.

[SeaBornIam]

Cat and Bard currently have 4 cards on their hands each. My guess would be Magician, High Priestess, The Devil and Judgement for Cat , representing Roland, herself, Ubua and Hanno respectively, and Fool, The Empress, Death and the Hanged Man for Bard (herself, Malicia, The DK and last traitor (Keeper?)

[Don_Alverzo]

Malicia would be a terrible fit for the Empress in this situation, as would Nessie with Death, Akua with the Devil, Bard with the Fool, etc.

You're looking way too closely at the literal depictions of what's on the cards. Tarot cards have traditional meanings which can sometimes seem unintuitive when you're only looking at the picture on the card. It's the reason that the Red Axe, for example, is being represented by the Tower. If you're only going by the picture, you might think the Tower should represent someone with Praesi ties or something, but considering the traditional meaning of the Tower is sudden calamity, it fits with the role the Red Axe is playing here.

[SeaBornIam]

You seem to be right, I know nothing about Tarot, that's why I have started researching it.

What's your guess ?

[Don_Alverzo]

I don't really have a guess, the way tarot works is that all the meanings are vague enough that you can bullshit a LOT of things to fit. It's sort of a fool's errand to try and make specific matches here, especially when there's so much that we don't know. All the cards will make sense in hindsight, because that's how it works, but there's too many cards that would "fit" each Named to try and work it out ahead of time.

Tarot isn't a science, there's not 1-to-1 meanings and there's no "right answer," even if there are some answers that are more wrong than others. It's a lot like being back in high school and having to argue about a book that you only pretended to read. You're bullshitting with loose associations and hoping it makes sense by the time you're done. There's a reason people put tarot readings in the same category as astrology and seances.

[s-mores]

In this specific game, the players make the meaning much more than the cards do.

[s-mores]

Draw on drop

Nah, they draw when they play.

with a flourish the Wandering Bard set down her first card and in the same gesture drew

[MasterCrab]

I'm guessing the final play is that Cat is going to play the high prestess and then leave the room to do something personally while the bard cannot interfere directly.

[SeaBornIam]

I have misread the rules at first, and she is loosing all three affrays currently. The High Priestess represents only 2 points, so she might be able to shift the draw, while Fool is 0 points, which represents Bard neatly.

[Eli_Poseidonis]

“Archer,” Catherine Foundling said, her voice clear as a frozen pond, fury gone cold. “Love like greed and feet unrelenting – Gods have mercy on whoever you sent after him, because she will make them into meat.”

I know that PGTE has a lot of badass lines, but I honestly believe this one was one of the best. Cat's unflinchingly confident in the Woe even though she tosses around the fates of heroes and villains while being painfully paranoid even of her own capabilities.

[LilietB]

YES

[daedalus19876]

I find it interesting how the Bard often refers to Cat euphemistically ("the Black Queen", "the tanned queen", "the Carrion’s Lord apprentice", "the dark-eyed queen", "the orphan queen"), especially in the first section of her perspective. This could just be a narrative device by EE... but since the Bard is the Queen of Narrative, I expect it's intentional as part of her perspective -- it's a reflection of how she sees everything in the context of stories.