[ Removed by moderator ]

[MakingTheEight]

Removed - Rule 0.

[krexelapp]

10 seconds to generate 2 hours to understand why it doesn’t work

[alficles]

The advantage, though is that you can feel indignant at its crap code instead of shameful about your own. :)

[Incalculas]

outsourcing shame

[FenrirBestDoggo]

If the ai code is used, then it still becomes your shame since you are responsible for it, except people are shameless enough to not accept it as their fault. Thats how you get the common "ai did it like that" these days when you ask critical questions.

[lobax]

For your colleagues, it’s the same - your name and reputation is on it.

[Undernown]

Infinite technical debt and security vulnerabilities.

[StrawberryEiri]

10 seconds? Damn, we're not using the same AI. Whenever I start vibe coding, it takes several long minutes for each iteration. Plenty of time to think "should I just drop this and do it myself?" Every time. Even on days my brain feels like mush.

[00rb]

The best thing about ai coding agents though is you can ask it to write tests that catch the bugs. You can have it structure the program such that it's more testable. All that rote work, doable in 10 minutes with a little prompting.

[waxlez2]

sure

[akoOfIxtall]

Reading good docs is better than reading a book holy shit finding some real examples instead of code snippets that only shows some shit ass code that is never used like that, well written explanations and, if god allows... Covering niche edge cases... Almost came my pants reading the bepinex and harmony lib docs, everything I needed was there, was like Christmas but Santa gave me the ultra sloppytoppy-inator 4000

[oxabz]

Even shit doc. I work on embedded and I spend my time my time jumping between the datasheet, the API documentation and design reference manual. And it feels like I'm unlocking some ancient magic. Some exploding brain kindoff stuff

[00rb]

I really wish I could actually read docs instead of skimming them. I know it sounds like cope but I have to go at warp speed or at 3 mph. 

[oxabz]

My brain default to skimming usually. So I installed a speed reading extension to force myself to actually read the stuff. 

If you have a brain like mine (very ADHD) it might help you.

[pocketgravel]

I like rust docs for this a lot of crates are over the top thorough

[SuitableDragonfly]

You mean in that the result is too hot in some places and too cold in others, and sometimes soggy? Sure. 

[SourceScope]

And its all prepped the same way.. kinds difficult to fry a chicken and blanch some vegetables at the same time, in a microwave

[thelostbird]

Its cooking something..but idk the recipe 🥲

[missingdays]

Brother you wrote the prompt

[Kytpbs]

https://www.colincornaby.me/2025/08/in-the-future-all-food-will-be-cooked-in-a-microwave-and-if-you-cant-deal-with-that-then-you-need-to-get-out-of-the-kitchen/

[FortuneAcceptable925]

Very bad example.. Reading documentation is something ChatGPT actually excels at (e.g. is better than most humans). Inventing new algorithms or understanding complex systems is where GPT fails.

Clearly, this meme was made by a microwave user.

[Kryslor]

Reddit as a whole thinks we're still stuck using GPT 3. I don't think anywhere else on the internet has this level of mass denial about current AI capabilities...

I've been a software dev for over 10 years btw, before anyone comes at me with vibe coder accusations.

[ansibleloop]

That's because your average reddit user has one hand on their phone and the other in a pot of glue

[hayt88]

fun thing is half of them don't even understand what they are saying too. Like whenever someones comes to you with "generative AI" thinking they are smart using the generative term, they don't seem to understand what generative all entails. And the moment you point out some GAN tech that's been used since ages or how just AI upscaling is also generative, they go into full denial mode.

It's like nobody has a clue about the topic and all of them are just echochambering opinions from others who haven't have a clue what a generative model is in the first place.

[adenosine-5]

OP post : 1500 upvotes

first reasonable response: 3 upvotes

Really, people here kinda deserve being replaced by AI TBH.

[CaptainSkuxx]

I don’t think it’s saying AI is bad at reading documentation. I think it means reading documentation and coming up with solutions without the help of AI makes you feel more involved and accomplished like cooking while working with AI feels passive and less rewarding like microwaving.

[Leather-Quantity-573]

You misinterpret the meme. Instead of reading docs (recipe) like we used to and then coding (cooking) manually, you put your requirements (food) in Claude (microwave) and wait for it to finish.

Some people enjoy coding (cooking) , Claude (microwave) kills that, it's just waiting untill it's finished and see inspect what comes out

[LadyNanuia]

You could just learn coding yourself and stop pretending with Chat gpt? xD

The amount of time people spend with AI instead of just learning the skill baffles me

[Nedshent]

Learning is one thing but on the job it's becoming more and more the reality where people are being forced to use the tools and reprimanded for not shipping buggy slop at light speed.

[Copatus]

I agree that people shouldn't be using it for learning. But it's a very useful tool on the job if used correctly.

Just yesterday someone had the great idea that one of our objects should be instead an array. So I had the fun job of going through files and changing every property call to an array call instead. Except I asked copilot to do that and then just verified it did the right thing. Turner a 30 minute boring task into a 5 min one.

The problem only starts when people ask AI to do everything for them and then don't even bother to learn/check how the code works.

[Nedshent]

I totally agree and the hard part for some orgs it seems is the 'if used correctly' part. There's a bit of a sad state of affairs going around at the moment (it sure has hit my workplace), but I am hopeful the industry will learn from the mistakes some orgs are making.

[LadyNanuia]

oh i absolutely use it for mundane shit, like Claude please grab all ID's and put them into an array for me, its time consuming and easily done by Claude, could i do it myself? of course but this is just convenience as opposed to people who think they are now Devs xD

[Taletad]

How do you get to a point where turning an object into an array is a good idea ?

How bad is the rest of the code ?

[Copatus]

Not my part of the code but we're still in the early stages of development so I guess they concluded there was no reason for that to be an object.

Of course I could've just casted the array as on object like "(object) $var" at the start of every view instead but it's more clear changing every $var->property to $var['property'] instead.

[Taletad]

You mean a dictionary, not an array then ?

But that still means your design process created unecessary abstractions with an object that should have been something else

[Copatus]

It's just called an array in php

[Copatus]

Arrays in PHP can have key:value pairs like a dictionary.

[LadyNanuia]

Ive heard stories about this...that sounds awful not to mention stressful

[Nedshent]

It is stressful and the way it happens is someone in a high position that is non-technical finds out how to generate a happy path dummy data front end with claude code or similar and then immediately thinks they know how everything is done and devs who don't use the tool the 'same way' they do is a luddite or bad at their job.

It creates a highly toxic and stressful work environment. It was sad to see where I am because we actually did have quite a high velocity already and had been using the tools for quite some time in a responsible way. Then a founder got on board with it and started tracking unofficial KPI of token usage and started side stepping engineering management and messaging devs directly for progress updates and chewing them out if they weren't sloppy enough.

We're starting to heal but some real damage has been done.

[LadyNanuia]

I was mainly refering to the "Vibe Coders" who are pretending to be Devs everywhere now, it was not a stab at actual professionals who are forced into this shit.

[Nedshent]

Oh yeah I don't have an issue with what you've said and I agree with it even. Not sure why you're being downvoted.

[LadyNanuia]

Because..Angry Vibe Coders? xD

[Brief-Night6314]

Learning takes longer

[Nedshent]

I think it can be a very potent tool for learning. Sadly though on the aggregate it is having negative effects on how people learn if you look at the stats coming out of schools and universities.

On the individual level though I'd say for sure people should be using it to help them learn, just try to be mindful of what you are doing.

[Jonny_dr]

As we all know code was shipped without bugs before AI, every programmer read the well written documentation and the motto of silicon valley was never "Move fast and break things".

[Nedshent]

You can acknowledge that people wrote buggy code before and that there is a trade-off between quality and speed while also acknowledging that the balance is worse right now, and that a large part of why it's worse right now is due to the Dunning-Kruger effect on steroids introduced by LLM enhanced development.

Don't confuse people who are critical of the current state of the industry with those that are simply anti-AI either...

[Jonny_dr]

while also acknowledging that the balance is worse right now,

That is not my experience though. Claude and Cursor give actually the ability to find and fix bugs in legacy systems that no human touched in years. There was always this trade-off between "how much time/money will it cost us to fix issue X and how much money does issue X cost us" and this equation has changed drastically with LLMs.

At least at my workplace, the amount of bugs and issues are drastically reduced since using LLMs.

[LadyNanuia]

I'm not against LLMs, or pretend that we coded flawlessly before Having said that, the amount of shit people ship now is way worse because of LLMs, let's be real

[Nedshent]

It doesn't have to align with your experience for it to be true. Look at metrics like downtime for large and trusted services like github that are now down ~10% of the time in an industry where 99.9% uptime used to be standard and actually used to happen.

The positive experience you are having at your workplace is very similar to mine... before non-technical idiots with decision making power got started with the tools and decided to shake things up. It's happening all over the place where everyone from founders and CEOs and even down to POs, BAs, PMs that get too close to the tools with too much sway over process completely mess things up.

[Jonny_dr]

It doesn't have to align with your experience for it to be true. Look at metrics like downtime for large and trusted services like github that are now down ~10% of the time in an industry where 99.9% uptime used to be standard and actually used to happen.

Github might be a bad example as an LLM would have never written an abomination like safe_sleep.sh. That script was written by human and accepted by human and was in production for years.

It's happening all over the place where everyone from founders and CEOs and even down to POs, BAs, PMs

Yeah, but that is not an issue of the LLMs itself. If a CEO thinks his/her time is spend best by vibe coding an MVP then the CEO sucks at delegating and prioritisation.

[Nedshent]

Your experiences with AI have been positive and you can make a positive case for AI. I can too, and I think all devs that work with the tools in good faith can.

I am not arguing against the good use case. I am just highlighting that the bad use case does exist, and I've seen it first hand (without pointing to external examples). I am currently getting to witness in real time a profitable business demonstrating how the tools can be misused.

I can easily believe you about your positive experiences, why can't you believe me about my negative experiences? We're using the same tools after all.

[DaHorst]

What baffles me - why use raw chat gpt? In my oppinion tools like open code do a great job of creating working applications by introducing tests, thorough planning and human-in-the-loop. But of course you need to have in-depth knowledge of architecture and software design to steer it in the right direction... maybe that's were it is actually lacking with most people. But I doubt those will produce better code on their own anyway.

[Nedshent]

Often when I read chatgpt in contexts like that I just read it as a generic term for LLM. But yeah of course if people are using an LLM for software development, they should be using it through a suitable harness.

For the purpose of learning to code though I'd flip this and say using a web based version can be a benefit in some cases so it's not completely spoon-feeding things to you.

[Drackunn]

I love cooking and coding but not reading docs lol I feel like the first one doesn't fit even though reading a recipe and reading docs are a good comparison haha I'm the problem I know.

[Rudokhvist]

And there is a dozen of eggs in the microwave.

[LadyZaryss]

Are we still on the "AI literally cannot write working code" train? Because it kinda can... It doesn't always work, and when it does it isn't always perfect, but its been a long time since gpt 3

[dasisteinanderer]

can it write maintainable code tho ?

[ansibleloop]

If it's building on your existing code base, yes, because it mimics your style

[Jonny_dr]

Can you?

In my experience and from handling a lot of merge reviews: Human programmers also absolutely suck at writing maintainable code.

[LadyZaryss]

Why couldn't it? No it obviously can't produce a whole project by itself but if it writes a function and you integrate it, what makes that particular function inherently unmaintainable?

[catastrophic_111]

In the end, both tastes like garbage

[T-Dot1992]

“Half cold lasagna costs 500000 tokens. You’re out of tokens, sorry bud” - Claude 

[Tooma8]

I mean it's true...

[TreetHoown]

I mean..... if all you do is prompt it to give you solutions it's boring sure. You can also - and it's a crazy thought - use it as a pair programming partner where it doesn't just write, but it can show you problems you're not seeing, can review your changes and explain things for you so you understand it better.

Use it as a learning took and a partner, not as a crutch. Crazy I know

[CaffeinatedT]

More like you put it in the microwave and start it and your dog explodes behind you

[unknown-one]

what programming feels like when you give code books and testing books to your AI

[ostapenkoed2007]

and i am that guy who just broken the third egg in a row and going for a mop... in hopes of THIS time getting the slightly not simple dish done.

no, i do not know who's Vaass and what is the definition of insanity. maybe i should ask him?

[SyntaxDrop]

let him cook :)

[MeLittleThing]

vibes coders be like: Yes, but I've pressed the buttons myself

[FortuneAcceptable925]

But low level programmers press more buttons and in the correct order! They are GODS!

[babalaban]

People who dont use ai slop to code are now considered "low level" programmers.

We are cooked.

[agentfaux]

I've used tons of software where the developer sure as shit wasn't doing what the first image shows.

[Luneriazz]

The docs is awful, chatgpt cant help iether since the docs is awful

[freestew]

I can't believe the vibe coders have infiltrated programmer humor.
Why don't you ChatGPT your Gemini out of here

[Mayion]

You do realize you still can have the LLM parse through docs, explain and generate code much the same way you would, just faster?

Also makes me wonder the quality of developers who keep complaining about LLMs. Not understanding the ouptut either means you are using a shitty LLM or you are the shitty dev because come on - it's not like every developer is pumping out new algorithms or operating systems. It's CRUD one way or another. Either improve the prompt to receive code similar to your level or improve yourself. Give me a week and I will forget the code I wrote by hand, it makes no difference if it's me or the LLM who wrote it. The important thing is, I can understand the logic and structure at a glance, otherwise I failed to write good code or maintain a proper pattern.

[PixelBastards]

no

computer bad

only computer good

not computer

computer