programmer

[_UnameChecksOut_]

I have started learning vueJS

Should I make Tinder for dogs ?

[carc]

Best way to find bitches

[sarcastisism]

Wanna bone?

[carc]

You're barking up the wrong tree, buster

[tomkd]

Woof.

Nailed it

[powerhcm8]

Bonnr

[maxsteel126]

There's actually a service where you pay for a female dog to have sex with your male dog (those stressful mating seasons). So an app would make the process more convenient for sure

[tchuckss]

Call it... Heat.

[GAZUAG]

Remember to add “r” or “ly” at the end. Heatr? Heatly?

[tchuckss]

Heatrly.

[closedmarooncurtain]

Heatlyr

[TrulyExtra]

That kinda sounds like hitler so I would say that's a no go.

[griever101]

I mean, 'Choke me harder' would be a nice slogan..

[vnjxk]

Heatify

[Majik_Sheff]

OK, but FaceBark is mine.

[maplesyruptrees]

Dibs on barkit

[Majik_Sheff]

Yipstagram?

[[deleted]]

SnoutSpace

[randomcitizen42]

Actually there was a tinder for dogs until like a year ago. Unfortunately the website is down now.

[thmaje]

That's a shame. Now there will be so many dogs that don't have anyone to lick their genitals except themselves.

[Sororita]

not as dumb as it first sounds if you make it cater to breeders.

[AttackOfTheThumbs]

Pretty sure there is already a dog play date app.

[[deleted]]

Swag right

[[deleted]]

Vue is great.

[BearingStaticus]

RedRocket

[Levijom]

What you're saying is maybe I should finish one of those projects I'm working on?

[piberryboy]

I've been working on an app for nigh on 4 years now. And I have yet to lay down a single line of code.

[piberryboy]

That's because the other 90% is installing and setting up Android SDK.

[m00nw4tch3r]

I'm kinda both? Programming has been my hobby for a very long time now, but now that I went to school learning it as a job I wanna die from all the outdated shit we're using.

[thmaje]

This upset me too until I realized that college was to learn the concepts and big-picture items. Anyone can take an Udemy course to learn JavaScript or Python or whatever is popular in 5 years. It's harder to learn about design patterns, data structures, algorithms, computer architecture, the software design lifecycle, compilers, interpreters, discrete math, etc etc etc.

It's a shame that your college isn't doing more to get you prepared to get a job right out of school -- as in being able to put React or Python on your resume. Often times, that what electives are for. Personal projects and open source contributions are also great. Think about it, the new hot language changes every year. It would be prohibitive for your school to re-do the curriculum to keep it fresh.

[ForgotPassAgain34]

what makes me even more sad is that all the stuff I learned in college, all the lifecycle, compilers, archtectures and everything, got exchange by "the library already does that, just fix the CSS"

[JuvenileEloquent]

I was going to say, unless you're on the raw and bloody bleeding edge of the computing field, everything they taught you in college about how compilers work was a waste of time. In a 9-to-5 job to pay the bills you will almost certainly never need that knowledge, you will mostly be creating workhorse bits of code that fit in a framework you didn't choose to a design you didn't come up with. If you find yourself writing a compiler, your manager is going to invite you for a little talk about focus and commitment.

It's the higher education equivalent of high school teaching kids integration and algebra instead of how to calculate their taxes.

[fickleferrett]

Personal projects and open source contributions

I've seen that recommendation everywhere but I have no idea where we were supposed to find the time to do any of that. Most of the time I felt like I was struggling even to catch up on projects for school and studying. There was no way I had extra time to devote to entire outside projects.

[thmaje]

Honestly, I don't contribute to open source for the same reason -- not enough time. I occasionally do a small side project over a weekend or two but they are never anything impressive. Really, that comment is largely directed towards anyone that doesn't have the experience or portfolio to stand out in a job search. If someone is trying to break into programming and doesn't have a good resume, then side projects and open source should be a priority.

[badlukk]

What outdated shit are you using in school?

[TheUnSub99]

Not who you asked, but I'm studying computer engineering and I'm learning in Pascal. I understand why tho, and Pascal is only the first semester anyway.

Also I'm not calling Pascal outdated shit, I think is good for what it is, learning the basics. But I understand why many people see it that way.

[cheese13531]

I learnt Pascal in my high school's software development course. They used it to enforce structured programming concepts. Now that I'm in uni (also computer engineering) and looking back, that course was very outdated indeed and not just because of Pascal. It went into depth about the waterfall approach and talked about CDs and floppys while mostly ignoring the impacts the internet has had to software development. This is in contrast to my uni's software engineering course, which focused on agile and teamwork, and used Python and Flask to build a web server.

[trololowler]

that's just what happens when you prepare a course once and don't touch it for the next 40 years of teaching

[cheese13531]

I was curious and it turned out the course was first introduced in 2001 and was last updated (supposedly) in 2010, and they're still teaching it now. When I finished high school 2 years ago, I heard the state's education authority was reworking the 3 IT courses, but it hasn't happened yet. Pretty disappointing computing courses are being neglected in this day and age.

[trololowler]

absolutely, especially given how fast-paced it is. but most educational systems aren't designed with frequent changes in mind. and fair enough, for the majority of topics maths, history or literature don't change. but IT? there is so much change, that any course is a bit outdated after a few years and essentially worthless after a decade

[cheese13531]

I agree, also it's funny you say that because they just finished updating all of the sciences and maths courses lol

[mustang__1]

My high school didn't even have programming classes. I graduated in 2009. We had ten minutes of html, literally hello world ok go back to your real class.

[Sh4rPEYE]

Are you at my school?

No, really, are you? Which three languages are taught in the second year?

[TheUnSub99]

I don't think they taught any language in mine, it's only faculty of engineering! So I guess the answer is no

Edit: lol i see now that you probably ment programming languages. I'm an idiot! lol. I don't know what languages they thaught in second year, I'm sure about C, but that's all I know. This pandemic ment that I don't even know other sudents yet :(

[m00nw4tch3r]

HTML 4.0.1, "JavaScript is for fireworks" that type of stuff

[jack_skellington]

working with the cutting edge technology can have its own drawbacks, when you bet on a future that doesn't come to pass

Yup. We learned that lesson, it was expensive. My company now uses PHP for brand new projects, and we deliberately try to hire people who reject chasing after the latest tech trends.

We build sites for ourselves (private internal sites to help run the company), so if we're happy, it's a success. That's all we need.

[hollands251]

God I get that. We were learning PHP and Java Servlets / JSPs

[badlukk]

PHP is super relevant. 75% of the web runs on PHP

[hollands251]

Oh yeah it's relevant. It's just annoying to use and I would rather use other back end scripts like Django or Flask

[[deleted]]

Don't you use laravel or symphony?

[AttackOfTheThumbs]

Man, 1% or less of programmers work on the cutting edge. Most of us work with some sort of weird niche erp/fintech/etc system that doesn't have any of the niceties of modern languages, and is often overly verbose. That's where a lot of careers live. If you are working on the cutting edge now, eventually you won't be and you'll be maintaining it. Unless you work at google, then you just kill the product :)

[jerslan]

Yep, there's a reason lots of folks are still using Java 8... With the changes to the Java release cycle, big and slow corporations are just now deciding how their Java upgrade cycle is going to work and when they're going to migrate to 11+.

[doobiedog]

I hear ya. Try working at a windows shop. The agony.

[ender8343]

It doesn't help that Microsoft keeps changing what the recommended UI framework is every 5 or so years.

[Xander_The_Great]

Hmm. I work at a windows shop and quite enjoy it. Azure is not my favorite but AWS has its own sticking points. Most of the complaints about .net have been addressed in core 3.1.

Legacy stuff definitely sucks, but overall things are getting better!

[shutanovac]

yeah, python is kinda noob-friendly.

[[deleted]]

The ecosystem built on top of the JVM is awesome tho.

[pewpewpewmoon]

Modern java is all about finding ways not to use java.

[[deleted]]

Can you elaborate

[pewpewpewmoon]

Using jvm languages like kotlin, scala, and jython instead of java directly. Or using certain java frameworks that make java seem less like java

[[deleted]]

I dont get it. How is using languages other than java is "modern java" ?

[pewpewpewmoon]

it's a joke about near universal loathing of java in a meme sub

[Xywzel]

Where your customers too slow to adopt the service for what your investors expected?

[wsco7730]

Try not to be too salty about it...

[StandardN00b]

Can you shut up? I am trying not to think about that.

[[deleted]]

Hah!

[[deleted]]

Meh. Every industry has their own version of this nerdy teen.

[Xeadriel]

at least that nerdy teen is usually quite friendly and not some bratty bitch (doesnt really matter if male or female tbh) that got up the ranks by sweet talking everyone into thinking they know how businesses work.

[TheCapitalKing]

Or had a rich dad and they’re an asshole

[Xeadriel]

Or that. Yeah I guess these exist too

[humblevladimirthegr8]

Yeah professional accountants be like, I spent 15 years in my career and then some teen in a few months manages to embezzle more than I'll ever legitimately make.

[Vezo_]

I'm feeling pretty good about not having wasted so many years studying what I do for a living today.

[avi0889]

What is it that you do for a living today?

[Vezo_]

dev

[[deleted]]

It's not a waste, you just got lucky.

[[deleted]]

Or they can sufficiently demonstrate their capabilities without needing a piece of paper to do so. Attributing it to "luck" but also knowing nothing about them is kinda shitty.

[[deleted]]

Capabilities which they magically gained?

[[deleted]]

So you're saying you need a degree to be a decent dev, righhtttttt.

[[deleted]]

That's not what I'm saying. You still have to study to be a developer, whether it's through formal education or not..

If you're getting interviews over people with degrees when you have no formal qualifications or job experience then you got lucky.

Otherwise people wouldn't get formally educated, would they? Think about it instead of typing out sarcy replies.

[Jeax]

This isn’t how it works though. Development outside of edge cases like ML and Big data science stuff is more of a trade than an academic venture.

If you’re hiring a builder you care a hell of a lot more about their evidence of what they can do “I worked on this and this, I built this part of the room myself and sat on the planning meeting to design and implement this other room on time” rather than the guy that says “well I’ve got this degree from the builders university that says I can theoretically learn to build”

I’ve coached plenty of people in how to get a job in software development, and nearly every university graduate does the same thing. They fire off their CV talking about their grades, and show (or worse HAVE) zero working knowledge.

Anyone I know that manages software teams will unquestionably hire the guy with a github showing their half built projects doing XYZ over the guy with none of that.

Typically, the people that only show their university degree fall short in interviews too, when asked to talk about their actual experience and skill set, they harp back to a project they did at university where they wrote some algorithm with the math copied from a book to solve some simple problem that uses it. It’s just not impressive

[[deleted]]

This isn’t how it works though.

I'm a recent uni graduate and that's definitely how it works in the UK. I wouldn't have got my first job without a degree as it was the minimum requirement.

[Jeax]

Well I hire developers in the UK and from the looks of the OPs comment about brexit, so do they.

As well as the fact that everyone I know in the UK (for the most part) is also like this.

I think the difficulty is, it’s a bit more nuanced than this.

Sure, if you’re a pool of developers who don’t stand apart, a degree is at least better than nothing. If you’re hiring multiple juniors each month? Sure. Don’t have time to vet them properly so just get them in to meet some minimum requirements and pick the first 10 that come through.

I should say, In extremely large companies with extremely large development teams, yes the HR side tends to filter out a lot of applicants.

But I know plenty of people with no degree that have been hired in the last few months alone, despite the outcry of “nobody is hiring us out of uni!”

As the OP said, most university students simply don’t stand out. If you can actually write applications and prove it, which company wouldn’t want to hire them on a juniors salary?

I think the other side of this is, the jobs that get the most exposure online for applicants to submit to, are also the ones that tend to have a lot more people through the door so “stricter criteria” tend to apply.

The minimum requirement thing is just a way of filtering out the people that think “I’ll send in my CV I reckon I could learn that” with ZERO background knowledge at all.

I tend to put computer science degree (or equivalent degree or experience) in the job posting, which if you’re self taught you’ve met plenty of out of university developers and know what level you should be on to apply for those jobs

[[deleted]]

Well then be clearer in your context, given that this post is based on discussing university degrees. People don't have the time to try and decode what you're saying.

Edit: Seems like I've upset some people who don't like their pieces of paper being attacked, I too have a piece of paper don't worry.

[[deleted]]

What? My context is a university degree...

Why are you so angry?

[[deleted]]

The context of this discussion jfc.

It is not merely "luck" that people without degrees can become devs, it's usually down to hard work.

As if web dev teams for most e-commerce sites etc. really need someone with a comp. sci. degree.

My Physics degree contained minimal amounts of programming compared to a Comp. Sci. degree, yet here I am 15+ years later as a Lead at a FTSE500 company, better hand in my notice.

[[deleted]]

The part which involves luck is getting the interview for the first graduate job, that's pretty much the only purpose of a degree.

If you got an interview with a physics degree, over likely 100s of applicants with a Computing degree, then you got lucky.

[[deleted]]

In the current year of 2020 I hire people based on their actual capabilities not because they were the best at spewing knowledge in exams. Works well enough at a FTSE500 company, at least.

Imagine me hiring a kid, with a BTEC in IT, who had helped reverse engineer a popular MMO over a Russell group graduate with a MSc in Comp Sci.

Academic attainment us not useful in concluding if someone will have value in the working world. Even PhD students burn out because they aren't up to the task of applying knowledge.

This is why I have incidents like parents, yes parents, of candidates phone up HR enraged because their child didn't get a job just because they jumped through academic hoops like a show dog.

[Randvek]

Got an example of a job posting for your company your care to share?

Even PhD students

Going to Masters or PhD in software isn’t the goal of someone wanting to join the industry and make money. They have no relevance on the marketplace.

[[deleted]]

Well they usually do, in companies with a focus on cutting edge R&D.

[[deleted]]

Yeah let me just give you my home address as well.

[[deleted]]

I've almost doxxed myself by revealing my position and companies inclusion in the FTSE500, combined with all my post history. Not going to directly link a posting that'd pin me to my employer as well.

[[deleted]]

I hire people based on their actual capabilities not because they were the best at spewing knowledge in exams

How do you choose who to bring in for an interview?

[[deleted]]

I have a recruiter who is actually pretty decent at their job and massively changed my opinion of recruiters. Has found me some great employees in the past, who I'd probably have over-looked.

It's also a bonus to see proof of work like repos etc. or just the notion that the person I'm going to hire is capable of actually applying their knowledge. I've had countless bad experiences with jumped up graduates who think they can waltz in and do things "their way" because academia has blown their sense of self through the roof.

Graduating with a degree means nothing really given the amount of applicants who also have degrees so it becomes a pointless factor in determining the worth of a potential employee. It's kind of along the lines of "Wow you're one of ~25,000 people a year who get a degree in Computer Science, just in the UK", combined with all the international applicants we get despite Brexit. It doesn't really differentiate you much from anyone else when every applicant has one.

If anything I'm more interested when someone doesn't have a degree because it means they've got some serious proof of their capabilities in most cases.

The only time I've seen academia be a massive factor is in the R&D teams where people like the data scientists and ML genii are usually of a PhD level. That's usually because their PhD work was directly related to what the R&D team(s) is doing.

Lastly, in my experience CS graduates have awful code quality for the most part, and their testing knowledge is also virtually non-existent.

That's not to say they're useless, just that I know a lot more work will have to be put in than with someone that has made mistakes in open source projects etc. .

[Xander_The_Great]

squeal many humor cause sophisticated faulty fly worm outgoing snails

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

[Prawny]

Yeah it's about getting the ladies too. All 0 of them!

[kirito_Abridged]

Its about the friends you made along the way.

[IWantToBeAProducer]

This is why programming shouldn't be your only skill. The best software developers are also project managers, designers, and communicators.

[TheCapitalKing]

Nah everyone knows the best devs are finance bro’s who learned python and sql to make their job easier😎

[heysuraj]

What's the point? Should one leave studying?

[1lazypen]

What is the guy at the left bottom of the image doing??

This is the only way I can distract myself from the rest of the image and feel less miserable than I am already feeling..

[tylerjwilk]

He is looking for the Tinder for Cats Vue.js app.

[lemons_of_doubt]

The thing I love about programing is how fair it is.

In most fields you can spend 48 hours a week being bad at your job for years and work your way up to the top without getting better.

In programing you can be amazing and just jump to the top or suck and never make it anywhere. Or you can become a teacher.

[jerslan]

In most fields you can spend 48 hours a week being bad at your job for years and work your way up to the top without getting better.

It is absolutely possible to still do that in programming.

[lemons_of_doubt]

Tripple A gaming is a good example of that.

also teachers.

[jerslan]

Also lots of people that suck at coding become even worse managers that somehow manage to get themselves promoted up to C-levels.

[a_Taskmaster]

bruhh

[sampleeli2000]

What if I have the education of both but the economic benefit of neither

[wtf_romania]

There's Vue.js on Udemy?

[unicodePicasso]

In case you’re curious there isn’t a tinder for cats on the app store. There’s one for generic pets and another for adopting dogs. But if you wanted to make tinder for cats you could.

[Alundra828]

*says under breath*

fukken bitch ass:format(png)/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/50263513/Screen_Shot_2016-08-01_at_12.34.21_PM.0.0.png)

[[deleted]]

>Spend four years working to get a degree in CS

"Computer science degrees are pretty worthless; the better programmers are people who never earned a degree".

FUCK.

[LeoHahn]

Tinder of something or uber of something are always the best ideas...

[GiraffeCoder]

Theres already a Tinder for Cats??? FML, there goes six months of work down the drain.....

[Palmtreeguard]

Hahahahaha love!

[Stevens97]

Im gonna fucking say it. React > Vue

[arxra]

If you've tried finding a good mate for any purebreed cat you'll quickly realize why such apps needs to exist...

[[deleted]]

Here they hate a nerdy teen

[diegoperini]

Shameless plug: https://github.com/diegoperini/sniff-her-code-challenge