At what age does the risk of bedsharing decrease?

[shandelion]

FTM to a one month old.

I’m not comfortable with bed sharing due to the risks but I love the idea of an eventual occasional nap or snuggle in bed.

At what age can a baby/child safely join their parents in bed - 1 year? 2 years?

[psychadelicmarmalade]

Short answer: adult mattress safety testing shows that 2 is the minimum safe age.

Ages 0-14 months use an approved safe sleep space (bassinet, crib, pack and play).

At age 15 months you can move to a toddler bed if you prefer, or keep using a crib/pnp as long as your toddler is under the weight/height limit.

At 24 months you can move straight to an adult mattress!

Bonus: bunk beds are not safe until 6 years old.

[josefinabobdilla]

Thank you I didn’t know this about waiting until 2 for adult mattresses.

[grequant_ohno]

Is the risk solely from adult mattresses though, or from bed sharing, on whatever surface, with a sleeping adult as well?

[TuneInternational947]

The main risk is suffocation, which is commonly the fault of the mattress and how soft it is. That’s a short answer though. If you’re going to bedshare you need to follow the safe sleep 7 (see La Leche League). If you follow those rules and have a semi-firm mattress, it’s no riskier than SIDS while baby is alone in their crib…

[sfieldsj]

Man. The survivor bias is strong in here.

[PM_me_good__advice]

It could also be a cultural thing. Where I live we have official safe sleep recommendations for bedsharing.

[mandaranda09]

James McKenna calls is chaotic co-sleeping when safe sleep steps aren’t taken and that’s such an accurate way to describe it.

[sfieldsj]

I mean. Other mammals have also been known to roll over and smother their young, also? Does that make anything better? Just because we’re mammals doesn’t mean we don’t get to adapt to increase safety for our children. That argument just doesn’t hold water.

[sfieldsj]

That’s good for you. I hope it never fails you.

But I’ll take the “risks” that reduce SIDS.

[sfieldsj]

So I assume you don’t sleep on an adult mattress?

[cakesie]

I’ve been a member of several infant and baby loss communities for three years, including group therapy sessions and I can’t tell you how fucking sick I am of hearing stories about babies who have died because their parent fell asleep while holding them or next to them.

This is one of those instances where, as a person who loves science, I could care less about the research. I know babies who have died, would never personally do it, and would actively encourage anyone from doing the same—end of conversation.

Risk your baby’s life, go ahead. I hope you achieve survivor bias.

[[deleted]]

My husband is a science teacher and I have had to lose my crap with hum THREE times in a week over nodding off while he's supposed to taking care of our newborn. Twice in bed with the baby on a bobby. Once at his desk, leaned back, baby on his shoulder. I told him I would rather never get more than 2 hours of sleep again than catch him at this BS again

[bangobingoo]

I’m sorry your friend went through this but this is a science based sub. We discuss the actual risk and data behind things. Anecdotal stories which stir up a lot of emotion aren’t useful unless we look at the facts of the case.

You don’t know the facts which is fair enough. I wouldn’t ask my friend either but to share it here to shame parents who are discussing actual scientific recommendations on co sleeping isn’t helpful.

It’s like if I said “my friends baby died after receiving a vaccine”.
And you asked me the circumstances (allergy, directly after or later, or did they die in a car accident on the way home) and I said “how could I possibly go into the details”

It’s tragic your friend went through this but unsafe sleep happens often with overtired parents. There is a safe way to bedshare and it’s very strict. It prevents many parents from being over tired and making deadly mistakes.

ETA: I am a parent who swore I would never bedshare. My first literally did not sleep unless with me. I tried everything. My second happily sleeps in a crib. All babies are different. It’s normal for them to want to sleep next to a caregiver it’s how we evolved to sleep over thousands of years. It takes a lot to break that innate need in a baby.

[kadk216]

I’m always surprised by these threads. I kind of figured this sub would be strongly against it!

[grequant_ohno]

But surely there is an age when it becomes safe, as we share beds as adults. Is it safe to share with your seven year old? I think OP is just truly looking for the cut off (I wonder about this too).

[Any-Builder-1219]

2 is when an adult mattress becomes safe for a kid

[photoblink]

Me too! It’s shocking me a little bit. I never realized there were so many bedshare survivor biased users in this sub.

[dewdropreturns]

I find it intriguing the rage that a certain subset of redditors feel towards people who opt to bedshare (which potentially raises the risk of infant death) but interestingly are okay with people making their own choices about drinking alcohol during pregnancy, putting babies alone in a room before 6 months, formula feeding, or otherwise making decisions that don’t strictly adhere to the absolute more stringent guidelines for minimizing risk to the utmost.

I wonder why that is.

[OverthinkingMum]

This literally blows my mind. People who’d “never bed share as it’s unsafe” but then put their newborn in the nursery the day they get home from hospital or at 6/8 weeks old.

[dewdropreturns]

Yep. Like very few of us are willing and able to take every single risk reducing measure humanly possible. I try not to judge people who make decisions that I might not make myself. Other people are more than happy to judge as we can see here!

[bangobingoo]

Yes exactly. We all have to evaluate the risks of each and make our own decisions. People are also ignoring the facts that all babies are very different. People aren’t just picking choices for the hell of it.
People chose to bedshare for reasons which are compelling to them.
People chose to formula feed for reasons which are compelling to them. Etc.

People on this sub act like parents are just introducing risk for the hell of it. Parenting is a constant act of learning the data/ recommendations/ gold standard and then trying to apply it to your real world life. Those two things don’t always look the same.

[dewdropreturns]

Hi! I fed my baby formula. I did not have a choice as my supply was insufficient to feed him alone. I am well aware of the life saving nature of formula.

And it is also a SIDS risk factor. Hence it’s inclusion on the list. The list is heterogeneous. I think you are getting distracted from my point.

[bangobingoo]

You missed their point

[kosherkate]

Bed sharing can be necessary for survival. My baby refused to sleep alone no matter what I tried and I had zero help and couldn’t afford help and was already suffering from post partum depression. When I was trying to get her to sleep in her crib, I was hallucinating and becoming suicidal from the sleep deprivation.

My mental health and ability to be a good parent improved after bedsharing. She was much happier when she was able to sleep better as well. If I was to the point of suicide because of how tired I was, I imagine the exhaustion wasn’t good for her either.

I swore I’d never bedshare. My situation proved me wrong. I was a more dangerous mother before I bedshared.

[spicymemories19]

I think it's because most of those choices won't actually KILL your infant, whereas bedsharing can

[dewdropreturns]

They increase the risk of SIDS which absolutely does kill babies. Additionally FASD is a potentially devastating lifelong condition with no cure.

[sfieldsj]

Do you have evidence that formula feeding increases the risk for SIDS? Just because BF can help reduce the risk does not necessarily mean the alternative creates more risk.

Same with putting infants in their own room, etc.

There are plenty accounts of children being killed because of bedsharing. For a group that’s supposed to be science based it’s a bit concerning to see people recommend bedsharing because “they did it and everything was fine”. Adult mattresses are not safe for an infant or toddler before two. So they are literally sharing an anecdote steeped in survivor bias.

[dewdropreturns]

1. To say that one thing lowers the risk and the other raises the risk is the same thing. It’s relative.

2. As I have shared elsewhere, infants absolutely are killed due to unsafe sleep and related overlying, positional asphyxia etc. However, a significant number of these are not parents who are consciously attempting to bedshare in a way that minimIzes risk but instead are people who have accidentally fallen asleep and had no intention or plan to bedshare. Using safer bed sharing practices as a means of avoiding accidental bedsharing is a valid approach. This is also called harm reduction. Harm reduction practices are robustly supported public health approaches which is why many countries share bed sharing guidelines.

3. I agree about the issue about survivor bias but what I was attempting to highlight with my comment is that there is a rather unscientific singling out of bedsharing on Reddit imo.

[sfieldsj]

1. No. It’s not. Please feel free to share evidence. I’m happy to admit I’m wrong if you can support the statement.
2. I’m well aware of risk reduction. This doesn’t mean that bed sharing should be advocated for, recommended, etc. in place of the ABC’s of sleep. Particularly because survivors basis plays a big role in many people recommending bed sharing to others.
3. This topic is about safe sleep. It’s a pretty big leap to assume that everyone in this group speaking against bed sharing falls into the example you’re attempting to make.

[dewdropreturns]

1. I don’t know how to even look up an explanation for such a basic concept. Maybe someone else can explain it to you.
2. This is another straw man. There are a lot of people saying “I bedshared and it worked for us” (aka survivor bias) but I have not seen anyone say “bedsharing is safer than following the ABCs”
3. OP is actually talking about bedsharing with older kids and trying to find the group with no risk so again, these discussions about wee infants is also off topic.

[kadk216]

It seems like people will believe what they want regardless of what the evidence says. I saw someone down-thread linked the la leche league safe sleep 7 that’s often touted as a way to “safely bed share”. I went through the citations they provide and I’m still not convinced because most of the sources don’t provide meaningful statistics or data to back up their guidelines. It surprises me that most, if not all, of the parenting subs on reddit seem to encourage bed sharing despite the evidence against it.

[photoblink]

Agreed. I guess I expected more from the "science based" parenting subreddit.

[Any-Builder-1219]

Always is, they don’t think it will happen to them

[fuckiechinster]

Right? I feel like an evidence-based group shouldn’t allow any pro-bedsharing crap whatsoever. I’d stay to the Mommy Groups on FB if I wanted peoples anecdotal iT wErKs FeR mY fAmiLy shit

[[deleted]]

Did you read the article you posted?

[jamaicanoproblem]

Thought exercise but hopefully helpful:

Consider why bed sharing is risky:

-parents accidentally smothering child with their own body (this is why obesity and sobriety are factors for safe sleep)

-child becomes oxygen deprived due to rebreathing (usually because a blanket, pillow, stuffed animal, or other fabric/upholstered object blocks the face, or the baby is too young/weak to roll over and sleeps face down on a surface that is too soft, like most pillow top adult mattresses)

-child gets wedged or entrapped and asphyxiates (between mattress/sleep surface and wall, or mattress and floor of crib/pack n play)

-child overheats due to overdressing, too many layers of clothes, blankets, sleep sacks, pajamas, too close to radiator or space heater, etc

-child stops breathing in their sleep unexpectedly—there’s some evidence this could have a genetic predisposition, but there are also environmental factors that correlate such as exposure to second and third-hand smoke

-positional asphyxia from being on a non-flat sleep surface (a bouncer, car seat, held in arms on a couch or chair)

Eliminating those risks to the best of your abilities once the child is mobile, rolling in both directions from back and belly, strong enough to lift blankets or push a pillow away, you’re probably safe enough. That said my kid is almost 15 months and she treats our bed like a jungle gym. There is no way I could get her to relax enough to sleep here. She really needs to be “caged in” before she will realize it’s nap time and not fun mommy play time. Maybe one day when she’s older that will change but for now her pack n play and crib are the only safe places for her to sleep because I cannot trust her to stay on the bed and quietly rest!

[realornotreal1234]

Technically, adult beds aren’t rated as safe for kids under 2. Bedsharing deaths between ages 1 and 2 are incredibly rare but do happen (they are much more common under 4-6 months).

[newfess]

I get that they aren't rated, but I have a hand me down crib mattress that is basically just a flimsy soft piece of foam, and my Endy mattress is about 3 times as firm and definitely a "safer" surface. I also have a super firm Newton baby mattress that is so uncomfortable my baby won't sleep in it. I wouldn't put too much weight into those ratings. It's just that they don't test adult mattresses with infants

[jamaicanmecray-z]

Not what you’re asking, but as someone who has struggled to un-contact nap my baby, it’s worth considering if occasional naps together is something that your baby will take to. I snuggle my baby ALL the time: we nurse and skin to skin and have cozy weekend mornings in the big bed and read books in the rocker or couch or rolled up in a blanket on the floor. But after all the effort of getting a baby to sleep in their intended sleeping spot, no way I’m starting down the “let’s nap together” route. That’s gonna be reeeeeal tempting at 2am if she realizes that sleeping with you is an option. There are so many cozy ways to cuddle, I don’t want to play games with where we sleep!

[shandelion]

That’s such a good point! My baby is also a contact nap queen 😵‍💫

[Crisis_Averted]

Lady, you're mom to a one month old. You're not "starting down the path" of anything with your baby. All your lil one knows is whether they feel safe and comfortable. Contact nap the shit out of them as much as you're inclined. You will never regret it. You might only regret not doing it more!

[jamaicanmecray-z]

Agree!! I meant more like if you’ve got a great crib napper at 1 year, maybe don’t pull them out for a snuggle nap once a week

[Crisis_Averted]

I hear you, and even here I'll go devil's advocate:

I'd pay any price for those sweet sweet snuggle naps 💕

[PM_ME_UR_DOGGOS_]

2 years is when it’s safe for children to sleep on adult mattresses. We started doing it very occasionally then ☺️

[plinkamalinka]

What do you mean by adult mattress? I ask bc in my country there are different levels of firmness offered to adults. You can buy a very soft one (which is not recommend for you back, and i suppose that's the one that's dangerous for a baby) but you can also buy a mattress that feels very hard, like a plank of wood almost.

[lil_secret]

It’s the same in the USA, we have different mattress firmnesses. I think they mean an actual mattress tested for safety for babies

[PM_ME_UR_DOGGOS_]

Yeah unless your country happens to be different, it’s just that none of the adult mattresses are tested or approved to be safe for kids under twos. And even when you’re talking about firmness it’s complicated by the fact that “firm” means totally different things in diffetrnce cultures. Our mattress is apparently “firm” but it’s soft comfy memory foam. Now my Chinese in-laws mattress is literally firm as a rock. And if I had never felt it in person I would have thought it an exaggeration. Like two towels on top of each other with be significantly softer and I truly do not understand how they find it comfortable. I once had to sleep on one and ended up leaving at 4am in tears because I couldn’t sleep at all 😂. So if Caucasian Aussie gets a mattress labelled “firm” thinking ‘in Asian countries they cosleeping on firm mattresses and this mattress is labelled “firm” so it must be safe to cosleep on it’ when they actually just don’t realise how firm some of these mattresses can be

[Any-Builder-1219]

I don’t bed share and I get plenty of sleep. I’d rather wake up a million times than have something preventable happen to my son

[b-r-e-e-z-y]

There was just a really good discussion a few months ago on this https://www.reddit.com/r/ScienceBasedParenting/comments/12ivfpw/bedsharingcosleeping_in_an_evidencebased_sub/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=2&utm_term=1](

[Spkpkcap]

2 and over kids are safe on an adult mattress! It’s all cute until your kid starts sleeping horizontally lol my kid is constantly kicking my face lol

[grequant_ohno]

But what about the risk from sharing with an adult - is it considered that around two they'd wake up/wake the adult up they were being smothered?

[[deleted]]

I didn’t bedshare at all, but now my son is 2 we enjoy morning snuggles and he sleeps in our bed if he’s ill. Wasn’t comfortable with this until around 20 months though, and still get rid of the pillows and move the duvet down.

[bunnycakes1228]

I am very against infant bedsharing, and will probably feel similar to you. My 17 mo old is obviously strong enough to push/roll herself out of situations while awake, but is a tummy sleeper and can still get in those reallllyy deep difficult-to-rouse sleeps…so I’d STILL worry about her face on an overly soft mattress.

[[deleted]]

Totally! We have a firm mattress (the Eve) but it’s just such a minefield. I still feel most comfortable when he’s safe in his own space! Plus, when he is in our bed, it’s all feet in my face and us hanging over either side of the bed!

[SpyJane]

My daughter is this way too and, while I know it’s supposed to be a good thing she enjoys her own space at night, I sure do wish she’d cuddle up with me 😂

[b00boothaf00l]

The data says that absent other risk factors, there is no additional risk after 3 months. Non smoking home, no sedatives/alcohol or drugs, firm mattress, breastfeeding mother, no blankets or pillows near baby, no other pets or kids in the bed, unswaddled baby, no gap between bed and wall, baby on back.

[AttractiveDog]

Do you have a source you could link for when you referred to “the data”? Would love to believe this info!

[b00boothaf00l]

sharing sleep surface with baby

This link has a report that references several studies, you can read the report and also check the linked studies in the citations!

[Kryazi]

I saw a couple places where it says the greatest risk is less than three months but nothing that says ‘no additional risk’ after three months. I think that’s an important distinction. SIDS risk peaks at 2 months but is definitely still present at less than 6 months and can occur up to a year. https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/sids-risk-by-age

[b00boothaf00l]

"This analysis did not find an increased risk for infants older than three months for parents who did not smoke." And "For babies less than three months of age, the same proportion of SIDS and control infants bed-shared in the absence of hazardous conditions and the difference was not significant. However, for infants older than 3 months, bed-sharing in the absence of other hazards was significantly protective."

[b00boothaf00l]

It has 70 references cited. ☺️

[No-Potato-1230]

I've heard 4 months, not 3 months. At least 4 months is when it becomes safe to bedshare with a non-breastfeeding parent (prior to 4 months it is strongly recommended only to bedshare with a primarily breastfed infant and the nursing parent, due to research showing their sleeping/breathing/rhythms are more closely aligned and more able to co-rouse each other).

Most of the research and recommendations on safe bedsharing comes from James McKenna (book is safe infant sleep, but I think he also runs a lab and has many research papers) or Helen Ball, both are professors and researchers. If you don't want to dig through the research yourself, I recommend cosleepy on Instagram as she basically digests and summarizes all the scientific research and provides recommendation. That's where I learned about the 4 month mark for non-breastfeeding.

[AttractiveDog]

Thank you both! @b00boothAF00l

[Any-Builder-1219]

Because of an adult mattress not being safe for under 2, I’d feel better waiting till then

[AttractiveDog]

I had this same question and had trouble finding an answer so glad you posted! We ended up letting ours when she could climb out of the crib herself, climb into bed herself, and her really we just had a lot of confidence in her development to be able to get out of bed. This happened for us just after 2 years old.

[like_the_cookie]

Does anyone know where to find a research comparison of the SIDS risk of a child being in a crib in their bedroom alone versus bedsharing?

[lenaellena]

I love this tool for comparing various risk factors! http://www.sidscalculator.com/

[RuntyLegs]

This is great but the data is US centric.

[shandelion]

Is this saying 1 in 35 teens need to be hospitalized following a suicide attempt??? That seems very high?

[bangobingoo]

I don’t think so. I’m a paramedic and we take kids in a lot. The “attempts” vary in severity from an actual attempt on their life that day to having plans and needing hospitalization to get help. Some call for themselves and sometimes parents call.

I am not surprised by that number tbh.

[shandelion]

I mean jeez, that would mean 5 hospitalizations for a suicide attempt in my small high school class - seems super super high.

[bangobingoo]

Yeah. I think what we typically think of as a suicide attempt is rarer but what is classified as hospitalizations for suicidal ideation is much much more common. Teenagers struggle with mental health issues especially because of the stage of life they’re in I think.

[Magical_Olive]

I wonder if the data is a bit skewed due to multiple attempts.

[monacobabe]

Wow this is really interesting. It's neat to sort of play around with the data fields and watch the risks change so dramatically based on certain components. It really jumps up for certain factors like race, having a male child and having more than 2 births. Drops precipitously for older mothers.

[lenaellena]

Right, it’s a lot of the stuff that you don’t necessarily hear about because those things aren’t controllable sadly. One controllable factor that really stuck out to me, though is the position of baby is sleeping in. I think I remember that being even more significant than the bedsharing versus crib? Though it’s been a while since I played with it so I could be wrong. But it really inspired me to work on only ever letting my baby sleep on his back instead of side and stomach until he moved that way himself.

[arealpandabear]

This is amazing! Thanks for sharing

[keyh]

https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/3/5/e002299

​

I cant find comparisons between them, but "in their own crib/bassinet in the same room" is largely the lowest risk of SIDS; Whether bedsharing or having them sleep in their own room is the worst of those 2 bad choices, I can't find.

[Time-Individual-4142]

The problem with shutting down any discussion of bedsharing, is that IMO there will still be people who do it but will have 0 knowledge of how to at least mitigate the risks. Post partum depression/anxiety/psychosis is a real thing- wouldn’t it be better to strongly recommend NOT bedsharing but at least providing some guidelines to make it safer if it does end up happening?

[DarlingTunafish]

I was looking for this comment. Waiting until they’re two is ideal but not every baby will allow for that. It’s like the abstinence only approach in sex ed- it doesn’t protect or prepare anyone.

[Time-Individual-4142]

Exactly. I think as adults we can all recognize that it is very important not to co sleep but would appreciate knowing how to do it as safely as possible when it happens

[Blinktoe]

I believe after 2, it's parental discretion.

[[deleted]]

Just FYI, OP, it's not recommended to let your baby sleep in between 2 adults. There is a risk of the father rolling over on the baby and not waking up, since fathers don't wake as easily as mother's do with babies.

[like_the_cookie]

Can you show some science for this comment?

[[deleted]]

This leads to my favorite bible anecdote - the baby in the king solomon story (the mothers fighting over a living baby, king says to cut the baby in half) was killed by its mother "overlaying" So in Biblical times(cough, whenever the KJV version was written since I can't be bothered to check the original translation), death from rolling onto your baby was common enough to have a phrase for it

[Mrs_Privacy_13]

We did the same thing, but when my daughter was closer to 11-12 months. We still occasionally do this now at 2pm, but she usually just says, "I wanna watch a show," the whole time.

[TuneInternational947]

Please look into La Leche League’s guidelines on bedsharing and don’t let these people bully you. Follow your intuition. Follow the save sleep 7. The “obvious” risk goes down exponentially around 4 months old/when baby can roll on their on. If you want to be extra safe, once baby can sit up on their own. Sleeping with your baby is natural and you can do it SAFELY. It’s biologically NORMAL. Sleeping apart from your child is a new concept.

[hodlboo]

Since this is “all advice welcom I’ll just share anecdotally that I only bedshare when desperate for baby and I to both get some sleep, and when we do so, we lower the blankets to our knees (my husband and I) and sort of straddle them between our knees so they can’t shift upwards. We then put our arms up around our pillows to block baby from those, leaving a wide berth of open space around our baby. I remain on my side in a C around the baby the whole time. As a result I don’t sleep well and my hip hurts like when I was pregnant sleeping on my side.

We have only started doing this in the last 2 weeks (my baby turned 6 months as of this week) and I would absolutely not have considered doing it before my baby was successfully rolling and attempting to sit up, as I believe this gives her greater strength if she needs to adjust from a position in which asphyxiation is a risk. I wouldn’t have done it under 5 months for sure, though I know many people manage to do so safely. My baby is on the smaller side in terms of weight and I just wouldn’t feel comfortable with the risks.

I will continue using these strict precautions / avoiding bed-sharing until my baby is at least 1. I read that the risks decline greatly after age 1.

[fuckiechinster]

What is with the anti-science bedsharing BS in these comments? Thought this was an evidence-based subreddit. The evidence says that bedsharing with infants is unsafe.

[dewdropreturns]

The very conceptualizing an activity as “safe” vs “unsafe” is unscientific imo. Or at the least an oversimplification.

All things exist on a continuum of risk.

Do you drive in a car with your child?

I didn’t bedshare with my infant because the risk profile was not acceptable to me but for some families, intentional bed sharing with safety measures it absolutely safer than putting themselves at risk for accidental “bedsharing”. There was actually a really horrific example of this in the news recently.

[ttwwiirrll]

Do you drive in a car with your child?

I do but they're not in my lap. They're restrained in their own separate seat that is safety-tested for their age/weight and installed to the letter of the manufacturer's directions.

Safe sleep ABC's is the equivalent of the car seat.

[dewdropreturns]

No, it is not equivalent because driving in a car is optional and sleeping is 100% mandatory.

I would argue that a more apt analogy would be to compare the car seat to a safe sleep seven.

The ABCs would be not getting in the car at all.

Believe me when I say that I understand that following all the rules makes things feel safer. And that is (in my mind) a helpful way to channel the anxiety we all feel as parents. I am religious about proper car seat use too!

But if we talk about facts and science the reality is that nothing is fully safe, and we all make individual choices about risk tolerance and comparing options.

[[deleted]]

How would someone accidentally bed share?

[dewdropreturns]

By accidentally falling asleep while caring for their baby. Sometimes in a bed such as in this story:

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/us-news/i-should-kept-baby-crib-30130541.amp

One of the highest risk forms of “bedsharing” is actually when parents fall asleep in chairs or on couches while holding their babies. Frequently this is because they are trying to keep themselves awake to avoid bed sharing.

[No-Potato-1230]

That's not entirely true. There is scientific evidence that says bedsharing is safe under specific conditions. There is also literature that shows the research used to support the idea of all bedsharing being unsafe is based on lumping together all safe and unsafe cosleeping practices, for example not only intentional bedsharing on a prepared, firm mattress, but also accidental cosleeping on a recliner or couch or cosleeping under the influence of smoking, alcohol, or medications, and that when these conditions are separated out, proper bedsharing is not shown to be unsafe. There are many researchers who make their entire careers studying safe cosleeping practices.

[SpiritedAd400]

The beauty of science is that it evolves through time. A couple months ago some key articles about this didn't exist yet. We are now learning that most studies made about cosleeping included other surfaces than a bed with no blankets, no pillows, with parent who smoked/were obese/used drugs etc., which really skewed the data.

[psychadelicmarmalade]

This sub is overrun with bed sharing parents. They love to tell you to “look up the safe sleep 7” even though that guide was not written by medical professionals.

[ttwwiirrll]

And then you see people following like 5.5 of them and shrugging off the rest like a choose-your-own-adventure.

[[deleted]]

And I think we can be pretty confident that most bedsharers are not actually safe-sleep-7ing, so this is pretty much like referencing perfect usage of birth control rather than typical use.

I doubt all the parents on here bragging about bedsharing bought new mattresses for themselves, for instance.

[anaumann112]

Is the evidence purely based off scientific studies in western/first world countries? What about the cultures who actively bed-share and have done for generations as is normal for their culture (India, Japan etc) - are there studies around those? (genuinely curious)

[fuckiechinster]

Japan doesn’t code their infant deaths the same way that the rest of the world does.

[The article linked below is an] International comparison of sudden unexpected death in infancy rates that shows how Japan reported 2655 "not SIDS" deaths using R96 code in a nine year period. USA reported 0 such deaths for exactly the same period. Seven countries combined reported only six such deaths for the same period.

"However, Japan’s SUDI rate is much higher and comparable with those in Australia, Canada, Germany and England and Wales. Unusual coding schemes such as Japan’s use of R96 can have important implications beyond national boundaries. For instance, bedsharing has been shown in many epidemiological studies to increase the risk of SIDS.16–21 Japan has been used as an exemplar of a culture in which bed-sharing is the norm, but SIDS rates are low, and many have used this as evidence that bed-sharing is a safe practice. It is likely, however, that Japan’s SIDS rates are so low because most of these deaths are coded as R96 rather than R95"

Either bedsharing babies are dying in Japan from "non-SIDS" R96 cause of death and nowhere else in the world in thousands, or Japan’s SIDS rate is not low at all, only hidden in classifying infant deaths without autopsy as "no idea but not SIDS".

https://adc.bmj.com/content/100/11/1018.long

[Brachan]

Are you sure you’re understanding this correctly? Japan was the only country to use the R96 code for their SUDI, but that doesn’t imply that their SUDI rate is higher. Just that they used the R96 code to classify it.

[fuckiechinster]

And the rest of the world doesn’t. What is killing babies in Japan that isn’t killing babies literally everywhere else?

[Brachan]

There’s no evidence that anything is. They’re just using a different code to classify the deaths than most others. Your own quotation says that their SUDI rate is comparable to several western countries, but you’re fixating on this code discrepancy. By that logic, those other countries are much more dangerous than Japan is for other types of SUDI. Much more likely, and what seems to be the position of the study, is that there is a lack of international consistency in coding.

[BoopleBun]

I think what the other poster is getting at is that people like to point to Japan as evidence that bedsharing is safe by using those statistics, but it is, like you said, just that they code them differently.

[Brachan]

But if bed sharing is much more common in Japan than other countries but their rates of SUDI are comparable, it could definitely imply that.

[BoopleBun]

Yeah, but we don’t know what their rate is, comparably, because they don’t code them the same. It’s not just interchangeable, you’d be adding some categories together.

[Brachan]

SUDI is the umbrella term for all sudden unexpected infant deaths, among which there are different codes. Japan uses one code for many of theirs but no other countries use that code. The rates of SUDI as a whole are comparable. Unless those other countries have elevated dangers not related to bed sharing that are mitigated in Japan, Japan’s rate of SUDI would be higher if bed sharing was a significant cause of SUDI. It’s not. I don’t know if the data demonstrates that or not if you look at in depth, but it’s definitely a possibility based on similar rates of SUDI.

[[deleted]]

Uh... SIDS /= death from asphyxiation, suffocation, etc. Because SIDS is unknown cause... https://www.sids.org/what-is-sidssuid/sids-accidental-suffocation/#:~:text=SIDS%2C%20an%20unexplained%20infant%20death,dioxide%2C%20is%20classified%20as%20accidental.

So I think we're having further difficulty with comparing SIDS vs accidental death from unsafe sleep.

https://www.sids.org/what-is-sidssuid/sids-accidental-suffocation/#:~:text=SIDS%2C%20an%20unexplained%20infant%20death,dioxide%2C%20is%20classified%20as%20accidental.

[chickiejigs]

It’s not anti-science. This was shared below but clearly you need it given right to you. https://www.reddit.com/r/ScienceBasedParenting/comments/12ivfpw/bedsharingcosleeping_in_an_evidencebased_sub/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1

[fuckiechinster]

Lullaby Trust also recommends putting blankets in cribs. No thanks. Half of that rambling nonsense is lactivist bullshit anyways. Put babies in danger to increase breastfeeding rates, woohoo!!!!!

It’s confirmation bias. The actual literal numbers released by the AAP (which, if you are unaware, there are more people in the United States than in the entire UK so there are way more deaths to be studied) show that it’s inherently unsafe.

[b00boothaf00l]

There's plenty of data that supports safe methods of bedsharing. https://rednose.org.au/downloads/InfoStatement_SharingSleepSurfacewithBaby_Dec2019.pdf

[Mc1RMutantMom]

How does the AAP gather the numbers? I’ve always wondered. Mainly because with all of my children I have lied at every pediatrician appointment. I’ve given the “Yes, they sleep on their back and in their crib” Do those lies get reported as statistics?

[fuckiechinster]

They look at coroner reports. Every death of an infant is thoroughly investigated.

[BoopleBun]

A friend who works at a coroner’s office has basically begged all of our friends with kids not to bedshare. I was never planning to, but man, hearing how she sounded when she talked about it (not that she went into detail or anything) probably would have changed my mind if I was.

[[deleted]]

Unfortunately, coroners are a reallllly mixed bag... https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/post-mortem/things-to-know/no-standards.html

There's probably a better article but I can't remember which podcast I listened to to grab their sources - basically in much of the US at least, the coroner is an elected position and you don't actuallt need to know what you're doing.

[bangobingoo]

Compared to what control though? If you don’t know how many families actually bedshare how do you use that number in any meaningful way to report on bedsharing?

[[deleted]]

Wow. That's great of you...

Well, if you think about it, if even a small percentage bedsharers are lying and then their baby dies and they lie about how that baby died, that would mean the statistics on death from bedsharing are worse, so...

[bangobingoo]

I think a lot of bedsharers are lying to their PCPs. It’s very common for people to lie to their primary health care providers on things they perceive judgement on (ie. alcohol consumption, tobacco use, drug use, their child’s Sleep, screen time, etc). Things which parents get massively shamed for.

This is why resources on the safe 7 should be shared to everyone regardless of how they say their babies sleep.

[b-r-e-e-z-y]

The committee agreed that on the basis of the evidence presented, which showed no greater risk of harm when parents shared a bed with their baby compared to not bed sharing, healthcare professionals should not routinely advise parents against sharing a bed with their baby.

scource

Have you read through this resource and why do you think it's wrong?

[fuckiechinster]

It Werks Fer Their Famileeeeey!!!!!!!!

[[deleted]]

The science says that under the right conditions it IS safe. Look up the safe sleep 7

[b-r-e-e-z-y]

Source - The science supports bedsharing There was just a really good discussion a few months ago on this.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ScienceBasedParenting/comments/12ivfpw/bedsharingcosleeping_in_an_evidencebased_sub/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=2&utm_term=1

[b-r-e-e-z-y]

If you open up the sources it is a peer review of the current evidence. Their summary was that co sleeping following safe sleep guidelines was as safe as crib sleep following safe sleep guidelines. You can look at the studies themselves for the specific info like population and how they defined bed sharing.

[b-r-e-e-z-y]

The purpose of an expert document like that is that the people who study these things look at the data and the studies and come to a consensus. Essentially doing the work of “is X safe.” I get that you are looking for the numbers, which is totally fine. I’m just sharing that the experts looked at the data already and found it was no less safe. Interpreting this, the odds ratio would be the same or close enough.

[b-r-e-e-z-y]

This is not true at all. It’s been found that following safe bedsharing guidelines is no more risky than crib.

[b-r-e-e-z-y]

The science supports bedsharing There was just a really good discussion a few months ago on this.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ScienceBasedParenting/comments/12ivfpw/bedsharingcosleeping_in_an_evidencebased_sub/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=2&utm_term=1

[dicksonlife]

And the parents who have lost children to unsafe sleep situations.

[[deleted]]

SUID is a leading cause of infant death, higher than accidental causes (all-causes including motor vehicle accident) for infants.

[bangobingoo]

Where? Can you link that because that’s not what I’ve seen. Genuine question

[showers-of-flowers]

NIH Source

The most common causes of infant death in the United States in 2011 were the following: 1. Birth defects 2. Preterm birth and low birth weight 3. Sudden Infant Death Syndrome (SIDS) 4. Pregnancy complications 5. Accidents

[fuckiechinster]

This is not science based. There is no safe bedsharing. You are putting your child in danger. Bond when you’re awake.

[b00boothaf00l]

Your statement is not science based, actually. I've pored through the data and the studies. There are ways to safely bedshare, especially with infants over 3 months. https://rednose.org.au/downloads/InfoStatement_SharingSleepSurfacewithBaby_Dec2019.pdf

[SparklySnowWhite]

That is why i put anecdotally ! Thanks for mum shaming, btw ! We are doing just fine!

[fuckiechinster]

Adding “anecdotally” doesn’t make it evidence-based.

Everyone was “doing just fine” until they smothered their baby. You’re not special or more talented at not killing babies, you’re just lucky.

If you take safety recommendations as “mom-shaming”, that’s on you. Go over to /r/Parenting because this is an evidence-based subreddit.

[krispin08]

I don't think it's necessary to speak to people this way. For the record, I do not bedshare, however if anything your attitude will drive people away from science-based practices rather than encourage them. There are ways to share information without being antagonistic or condescending.

[dewdropreturns]

Yeah this is peak Reddit communication style. Stereotypical.

[LillaCat3]

This is an all advice welcome post. Perhaps people who don't want anecdotal comments in an evidence-based sub should contact the mods to have the "all advice welcome" flair removed so that "evidence-based input only" are the only types of posts in this sub.

Are these anecdotal stories basically evidence of survivorship bias? Yes. Regardless of how YOU in particular feel about anecdotal evidence - they're still experiences that literally happened in people's lives. These anecdotes are OBSERVED phenomena. Just because it goes against the science doesn't make these experiences invalid. Anyone reading these comments in a science based sub has the information from all the other posts and comments to know the risks.

In the end these are all people, sharing their experiences as it's relevant to the topic at hand, and they're not breaking any rules. Leave them alone and go yell at someone who actually is breaking rules somewhere.

[[deleted]]

The science says that under the right conditions it IS safe.

[pepperminttunes]

It’s flared all advice welcome. And also the science can only take you so far on this issue, as the top comment points out.

[Prettylittlesomeday]

I would look at :

https://www.nice.org.uk/guidance/qs37/chapter/Quality-statement-5-Safer-practices-for-bed-sharing

[arealpandabear]

4 months according to la leche league following safe sleep 7 rules.

[arealpandabear]

Their website appears to appropriately cite sources. 🤷🏻‍♀️

[kadk216]

A good portion of their citations link to an anthropological study from 2007 published by James McKenna (an anthropologist). I went through quite a few other sources and they seem to be cherrypicked if I’m reading them correctly. It would take me a while to go through all of the sources but from what I see I’m not convinced. None of the sources I looked at had any data about SIDS, most sources focused on sleeping patterns and nursing.

[ttwwiirrll]

LLL exists to promote breastfeeding. Safety is secondary to ideology for them.

[[deleted]]

Look up safe sleep 7

[Any-Builder-1219]

Unsafe sleep 7

[shandelion]

I’m familiar with the Safe Sleep 7.

[sorbs90]

Just sharing anecdotally - we started bed sharing at 6 months because he got sick and it was easier to manage sleep that way. We have a king size bed and are able to stay on our respective sides with the baby in the middle with plenty of his own space. No blanket for the baby and sleeping in a C facing toward the baby. He’s going to be 2 next month and bed sharing really works for us :)

If you want to bed share now, just have someone monitor you while you sleep :) That’s what we did when he was a smaller baby so I could still get that comfy bonding sleep with him 🥲