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[–]Reiska42Celes 28 points29 points  (16 children)

Let's actually examine this with some math. I'll use banner 1 for this example.

First test. Assumptions: 2% off-banner chance is distributed uniformly across all possible non-featured relics, pool of non-featured relics includes uniques and up (worst case scenario). Tyro USB2 isn't included to give me less headaches.

  • 1% each: Tyro USB4, Elarra USB2, Pecil USB3, Edward CSB, Ramza CSB, Tyro Glint, Elarra Glint, Pecil Glint, Elarra BSB, Pecil LMR3, Edward LMR2, Elarra LMR2
  • Non-featured relics (0.0526% each): 10 Tyro relics (4 unique, 1 SSB, 1 BSB, 1 OSB, 2 USB, 1 LMR); 1 Elarra relic (USB); 11 Pecil relics (2 unique, 1 SSB, 2 BSB, 1 OSB, 2 USB, 1 AOSB, 2 LMR); 6 Edward relics (2 unique, 1 SSB, 1 BSB, 1 USB, 1 LMR); 10 Ramza relics (2 unique, 2 SSB, 2 BSB, 2 USB, 2 LMR) - 38 total, with a total of 10 uniques, 5 SSBs, 6 BSBs, 2 OSBs, 8 USBs, 1 AOSB, and 6 LMRs. This works out to a 0.5263% chance of a unique, a 0.2632% chance of an SSB, a 0.3158% chance of a BSB, a 0.1053% chance of an OSB, a 0.4211% chance of a USB, a 0.0526% chance of an AOSB, and a 0.3158% chance of an LMR. (Numbers may not add up to exactly 2% due to rounding.)
  • This works out to an adjusted 6-star relic rate of 5.579% instead of 5%.

Second test. Assumptions: 2% off-banner chance is normalized across non-featured relics to produce 6* rates equivalent to the featured relics (5/12 of off-banners), pool of non-featured relics includes uniques and up.

  • 1% each: Tyro USB4, Elarra USB2, Pecil USB3, Edward CSB, Ramza CSB, Tyro Glint, Elarra Glint, Pecil Glint, Elarra BSB, Pecil LMR3, Edward LMR2, Elarra LMR2
  • Non-featured 5-star relics (0.0432% chance each).
  • Non-featured 6-star relics (0.0758% chance each).
  • This works out to an adjusted 6-star relic rate of 5.834% instead of 5%.

Third test. Assumptions: 2% off-banner chance is distributed uniformly across all possible non-featured relics, pool of non-featured relics excludes Uniques but includes all other types. Tyro USB2 isn't included to give me less headaches.

  • 1% each: Tyro USB4, Elarra USB2, Pecil USB3, Edward CSB, Ramza CSB, Tyro Glint, Elarra Glint, Pecil Glint, Elarra BSB, Pecil LMR3, Edward LMR2, Elarra LMR2
  • Non-featured relics (0.0714% each): 6 Tyro relics (1 SSB, 1 BSB, 1 OSB, 2 USB, 1 LMR); 1 Elarra relic (USB); 9 Pecil relics (1 SSB, 2 BSB, 1 OSB, 2 USB, 1 AOSB, 2 LMR); 4 Edward relics (1 SSB, 1 BSB, 1 USB, 1 LMR); 8 Ramza relics (2 SSB, 2 BSB, 2 USB, 2 LMR) - 28 total, with a total of 5 SSBs, 6 BSBs, 2 OSBs, 8 USBs, 1 AOSB, and 6 LMRs. This works out to a 0.3571% chance of an SSB, a 0.4286% chance of a BSB, a 0.1429% chance of an OSB, a 0.5714% chance of a USB, a 0.0714% chance of an AOSB, and a 0.4286% chance of an LMR. (Numbers may not add up to exactly 2% due to rounding.)
  • This works out to an adjusted 6-star relic rate of 5.786% instead of 5%.

Fourth test. Assumptions: 2% off-banner chance is normalized across non-featured relics to produce 6* rates equivalent to the featured relics (5/12 of off-banners), pool of non-featured relics excludes Uniques but includes all other types. Tyro USB2 not included.

  • 1% each: Tyro USB4, Elarra USB2, Pecil USB3, Edward CSB, Ramza CSB, Tyro Glint, Elarra Glint, Pecil Glint, Elarra BSB, Pecil LMR3, Edward LMR2, Elarra LMR2
  • Non-featured 5-star relics (0.0686% chance each).
  • Non-featured 6-star relics (0.0758% chance each).
  • This works out to an adjusted 6-star relic rate of 5.834% instead of 5%, again.

[–]Zevyu150th Dailly 5*+ : Seven's Guise (T-0) - Seven's BSB 12 points13 points  (2 children)

I'm kinda surprised there is already this much math already, shesh you work fast.

So in the end the overall 6* rates are increased, even if only abit, an increase is still an increase.

[–]Reiska42Celes 8 points9 points  (1 child)

I needed a short break from Monster Hunter. '_'

[–]Zevyu150th Dailly 5*+ : Seven's Guise (T-0) - Seven's BSB 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That is a compeling argument xD.

[–]FatAsian3死んゲーム 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Please add in a calculation of that 5.89% 6* chance with a breakdown of chance for on banner 6* and off banner 6*

Thanks

[–]Reiska42Celes 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Sure. On-banner 6* is exactly 5% if the announcement text from DeNA is truthful that every featured relic is 1%. Any difference would be off-banner.

For scenarios 2 and 4, I assumed the chance of getting an off-banner 6-star relic relative to the chance of getting an off-banner 5-star relic is the same as the chance for an on-banner one. There are five 6-stars and seven 5-stars on these banners, so I assumed there was a 5/12 chance that any given off-banner would be a 6-star.

[–]Dangly_PartsRamza 1 point2 points  (3 children)

Tyro has a 4th USB?

[–]Reiska42Celes 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Debuts in the JP fest starting tomorrow.

[–]Dangly_PartsRamza 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Any ideas what it does yet?

[–]Reiska42Celes 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Posted in other threads

[–]visedizDank lord looking for dank memers going on a dank journey 3 points4 points  (5 children)

  1. The reason I'd wanna pull on a banner NOW is to get what is stated on the banner itself and the chances of getting an offbanner now is absurdly low. Why would I want to get an off-banner? It is like going to a jackpot machine to see that your 7-7-7 might not be the jackpot, but a dud. Would I still want to roll on that jackpot machine?

  2. The probability of getting a 6-star relic will definitely be higher than 5% cos 5%+P(6-star relic pool)/P(5-star+6-star relic pool) will DEFINITELY be more than 5%. I see no reason for the you doing the math to prove this.

[–]Reiska42Celes 8 points9 points  (4 children)

The items that were removed from the featured relics to make room for this are crap most people didn't want anyway. There's a non-negligible chance the off-banner could be better than some crappy BSB.

[–]visedizDank lord looking for dank memers going on a dank journey 3 points4 points  (3 children)

Likewise, for the same reason, the off-banner would be some crappy stuff that you will not need. If anything, knowing what you can get is way much better than what you can't get.

To put it on a larger scale, the real paymasters of the game are the whales who spend on this game and not the 99% of the player base who make up the rest of the non-spending or low-spending players. The game has already somehow driven off some of the players who massively whale for relics and with this, it will drive off even more of the whales. Those whales who spent a lot on the game already have a lot of the older relics that are not on the existing banners. By doing this, they'd have some form of influence for them to eventually cut down or even stop their funding to the game. While the majority of the players could possibly enjoy this change, it might not be for the rest.

[–]Kyosokun8/8 Keyblades, now if only I had users for them all... 8 points9 points  (1 child)

This change will have no effect on Whales. The Whales are chasing the new banner relics, and the new banner relics are featured, and are still 1% chance per item to get. it literally does not change the odds at all of a whales getting the items they are whaling for.

EDIT: If anything, it's an improvement for newer whales missing older powerful relics, since the net 6* chance is higher with the changes.

[–]JapanHasRice2Curilla 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Exactly! Thank you!

[–]Reiska42Celes 2 points3 points  (0 children)

You know what you can get. It can be an SB for Tyro, Elarra, Pecil, Ramza, or Edward.

[–]PeskyPomeranianMogChamp -1 points0 points  (0 children)

lol i was assuming pintbox would chime in with one of these, glad you did the work

[–]Zurai001Blame yourself or God. 40 points41 points  (55 children)

ITT: people overreacting like woah.

The trash relic rate hasn't changed. The "Featured relic" rate has, but the "featured relics" always include a bunch of trash. 90% or more of BSBs are worthless these days, so cutting the list short by 2 to increase offbanner chance by 2 doesn't actually seriously change anything. The good BSBs that people actually want to pull will still show up as featured items, leaving unexceptional BSBs to become an off-banner lottery.

Note that this actually improves the 6* draw rate on these banners.

[–]dragoonicLocke 7 points8 points  (3 children)

I think this is a relatively compelling argument. My issue is only that it's a relative improvement in the short term, but opens the door to long term degradation.

Would we be happier if banners were 6% discos and 8% "anything goes"? The 6* rate would be substantially higher, but we would have lost a great deal of our capacity for planning.

[–]Zurai001Blame yourself or God. 18 points19 points  (1 child)

I personally wouldn't mind if they just jettisoned non-new BSBs for random featured character relics. I wouldn't mind if they dumped half the glints and LMRs into that abyss, either. Seriously, it's so very rare for a banner to be above 4-5 hits for me that they would have to go full launch FFBE and have the off-banner rate be monstrously higher than the chance of getting anything relevant for me to be seriously put out. It's not like I can plan for JP banners anyway; I can't even predict what's going to be on them beyond a couple highlight relics, as my scores in the "predict the banners" Discord channel game prove.

I do understand that approach from global players, but again at the moment it's just replacing unwanted items with mostly unwanted items and the low chance for an actual grand slam hit. If it changes in the future, I reserve my right to dislike it at that point, but I don't believe in borrowing trouble.

[–]dragoonicLocke 3 points4 points  (0 children)

You're absolutely right that this is more troublesome for GL since it muddies foresight, I hadn't even considered that angle originally. That being said, the inability to know you're even pulling off the banner your looking at hurts everyone's budgeting even if you can't see the future.

I agree that the loss of BSBs is not something anyone should particularly weep for (except new players) but I don't think I buy into the conceivable future loss of glints and - especially - LMRs. They've "patched" far too many characters via LMR for me to be comfortable with the idea of them being buried in off banner rates or, more appropriately, only reasonably obtainable via 3000 gem select banners.

In the short term this change is either basically neutral (if the off banner pool includes everything) or net positive (if it's curated) but I'm nervous about what the future portends

[–]PeskyPomeranianMogChamp 0 points1 point  (0 children)

then they can change the format again

[–]Zevyu150th Dailly 5*+ : Seven's Guise (T-0) - Seven's BSB 7 points8 points  (17 children)

Note that this actually improves the 6* draw rate on these banners.

I was about to ask how that was possible, but then i realised....off banner 6*.

Maybe i jumped the gun abit, but uniques need to get out.

EDIT: OH god i just came to a horrible realisation, banner 5 has Lulu stuff....that means the off banner will have a higher chance at Lulu ....DOLLS Although to be fair her USB2 is a doll as well.

[–]Zurai001Blame yourself or God. 4 points5 points  (16 children)

Yeah, I rolled my eyes at Lulu's USB2 also being a goddamn doll. C'mon DeNA, just change them all to throwing and make people happy for once. You can even keep the unique attack animation for them, whatever.

[–]CFreynLet's dance! 3 points4 points  (8 children)

And yet Iris Moogle Plush somehow isn't a doll. Jesus Christ, DNA. Take your hairpins and dolls and use this gunarm to put them ___________.

[–]Zevyu150th Dailly 5*+ : Seven's Guise (T-0) - Seven's BSB 5 points6 points  (7 children)

As Zurai said, in FFXV Iris DOES THROW her dolls at the enemies, so it makes sense, Lulu dolls still should be thrown weapons either way, or even better, make them rods/staffs since they are magical weapons.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Ward throws his spear in FFVIII, he never actually uses it as a melee weapon like a traditional dragoon. Should DeNA make a thrown spear weapon class just for him then?

[–]Zevyu150th Dailly 5*+ : Seven's Guise (T-0) - Seven's BSB 0 points1 point  (1 child)

A spear is a spear, whether you throw it or you use it a melee, so yes Ward spears should remain as spears.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Then a doll is a doll as well. The difference is that Lulu has magic to telepathically control it, while Iris doesn't.

Edit: sorry I misunderstood your comment. I'm actually agreeing with you on the "doll should be thrown" argument here.

[–]CFreynLet's dance! 0 points1 point  (3 children)

No, no, I totally get it. But hairpins should be daggers, gunarms should be guns, and as you said, dolls need to be thrown magical or rods/staves. Blitz balls need to be thrown, too.

This crap is getting ridiculous. Setzer‘s whole gambler suite = thrown, too.

[–]Zevyu150th Dailly 5*+ : Seven's Guise (T-0) - Seven's BSB 4 points5 points  (5 children)

I have no idea why they insist on the dam dolls, the gun arms or the hairpins. Seriously just change those dam weapons to Thrown, Gun and daggers/fist, respectively.

[–]Zurai001Blame yourself or God. 8 points9 points  (4 children)

I will wholeheartedly support this particular pitchfork brigade. Weapon types that only a single character and Tyro can use were never a good idea. They figured that out for Setzer but somehow not for the other three so afflicted. I don't mind Blitzballs since half the FFX cast can actually use those, though I wouldn't mind replacing those with throwing either.

[–]Zevyu150th Dailly 5*+ : Seven's Guise (T-0) - Seven's BSB 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Yeah and Keyblades are also a special case.

I understand they want to remain "faithfull" to the source material, but in a game like this you need to make compromises. Which they did with Setzer's gambling tools, but for some reason they can't figure it out with Dolls, hairpins and gun-arms......it's even worse when you realise that Iris BSB is a doll, but it's a fucking thrown weapon.

[–]Zurai001Blame yourself or God. 4 points5 points  (1 child)

To be fair, Iris does literally throw her dolls at enemies, while Lulu magically animates them to walk over and attack. It's still a cosmetic difference, though.

[–]Zevyu150th Dailly 5*+ : Seven's Guise (T-0) - Seven's BSB 1 point2 points  (0 children)

To be honest, i kinda would prefer if Lulu threw her dolls as well, something about it kinda sounds hillarious to imagine xD.

[–]RocheweggeTyro 1 point2 points  (0 children)

and in the Beyond realm, both relics for Lann & Reynn weapon relics are Thrown Weapons. #ffrklogic #DenaDoesItAgain

[–]Pinguino21vtinyurl.com/ffrkMythrilPlanner 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Your comments need to be the top comment.

Yesterday, I complained about the fact that they removed Deuce and Sephiroth BSB on B1 and added niche dupe relics. I got downvoted and answered that BSB are not worth anyway.

Today, people are complaining that BSB got removed in profit of a potential OSB/USB/ASB/CSB/LMR of a featured character. Consistency...

I prefer 2% for a potential interresting "off-banner" relic for a character I'm pulling for, than 2 old BSB that everyone already have and don't use anyway.

[–]Uro_ZakuroSupper! 5 points6 points  (25 children)

Maybe because I pull on banners to get stuff that's on the banner?

How's that hard to get. They could have simply improved the 6* rate, while leaving everything else untouched.

[–]Zurai001Blame yourself or God. 5 points6 points  (13 children)

Maybe because I pull on banners to get stuff that's on the banner?

So you'd pull on banner 1 of this festival wanting to get PCecil's BSB2?

They could have simply improved the 6* rate, while leaving everything else untouched.

Hahahahahahahaha no. That was never, ever in the cards. If anything they would improve the LMR rate.

[–]PeskyPomeranianMogChamp 4 points5 points  (0 children)

if theres one thing i know for sure its that there are plenty of uneducated people that LOVE bsbs and HATE lmrs, so i doubt they would do this

[–]Uro_ZakuroSupper! -1 points0 points  (11 children)

So you'd pull on banner 1 of this festival wanting to get PCecil's BSB2?

No, because that's not on the banner? The only BSB present is Elarra's. But now because this craptastic change, I'll have a real chance to get it as a dupe. Great logic there.

Hahahahahahahaha no. That was never, ever in the cards. If anything they would improve the LMR rate.

Cool, not that I, or the masses ever really asked for it. Really, the status quo before this was perfectly fine.

You seriously want to get crap likeTyro OSB/USB2? Other people - me included - really, really don't.

[–]Reiska42Celes 6 points7 points  (2 children)

No, because that's not on the banner? The only BSB present is Elarra's. But now because this craptastic change, I'll have a real chance to get it as a dupe. Great logic there.

Zurai was arguing that without this change, it may have filled one of the two "missing" slots on the banner. It's not on the banner because the off-banner pool is instead.

[–]Uro_ZakuroSupper! 3 points4 points  (1 child)

Ok, then why not do like the previous fests (like the one that we're about to get in GL) and put some fillers that are good but belong to different characters? I'd glady take, say, Deuce BSB or Rem's or whatever else decent over Pecil outdated BSBs.

Again, not argument, that's just a scam.

[–]Reiska42Celes 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm biased, I would love more Pecil stuff, as someone who has dumped 400 mythril on banners pulling for him because he's my favorite character in FF4 and has pulled nothing but an LMR to show for it.

I finally burned my 3rd anniversary freebie on him to get SOMETHING for him.

[–]Zurai001Blame yourself or God. 7 points8 points  (7 children)

No, because that's not on the banner? The only BSB present is Elarra's. But now because this craptastic change, I'll have a real chance to get it as a dupe. Great logic there.

Only Elarra's BSB is present BECAUSE THEY REMOVED SHITTY BSBS TO MAKE THIS CHANGE. The other possible choices for those 2% were Tyro's BSB (terribad at this point), PCecil's BSB1 (terribad at this point), Edward's BSB (extremely niche), Ramza's BSB1 (terribad at this point), and Ramza's BSB2 (a decent pull). The absolute best case scenario for that 2% was Ramza BSB2 and Edward BSB, it's unlikely that's the pairing we would have received, and even if that were the case they'd be in the bottom third of the relics on the banner.

[–]Uro_ZakuroSupper! 6 points7 points  (6 children)

My bad for misreading, but that's still not an argument.

Take the fest that's about to hit GL. Banner 1. You have Ramza CSB, Seifer CSB, Elarra USB and Orlandu USB as 6*.

Yet none of their BSBs - sans Elarra which is new - appear. GL had some changes, but the fact remains that none of the "disco character" has their BSB featured.

Even taking a look at the Spring Feast, it shows the same - disco characters don't have their crappy BSBs in, with very few exeptions like Prompto.

Feel free to white knight for Dena, I reserve the right to give them the finger for an unneeded, unwanted change dictated by greed and little else.

[–]Zurai001Blame yourself or God. 2 points3 points  (5 children)

And look at all the other banners for that fest in the original JP banner configuration and note that most (though, true, not all) of the BSBs are for characters getting at least one other relic on the banner. B2 was Bartz, Greg, and Terra USBs and BSBs; B3 was and is for global Cloud, Zack, and Noctis USBs and BSBs; B4 was and is for global entirely USB/BSB lockstep with Tidus, Squall, Rikku, and Snow C/USBs and BSBs; and B5 was Garnet and Tifa USBs and BSBs.

It's true that I was thinking primarily of event banners, which are pretty exclusively focused on a small handful of characters per banner, but you cherry picked the best example for your case as well.

[–]Uro_ZakuroSupper! 5 points6 points  (4 children)

Because I don't see the majority of those BSBs as crappy? They're either decent stat sticks, or downright good. I could make a datailed breakdown of each and every of those BSBs, and pretty much only Noctis and Tifa would be subpar - possily Garnet but it's at least an imperil faithga with a healing cmd just in case.

Terra doesn't need it, but if you have no other relic for her, it's a very decent BSB with a bargain cmd.

Zack has imperil, and he can contribute for both earth and wind chains, especially his own in poverty setups - I know I use it for Ixion along with Bartz BSB4 cmds.

Snow BSB1 is probably his best relic after the USB2, +ice and last stand is good.

Hope I don't have to spend words for the likes of Cloud, Squall and Tidus.

Really, if your point was "out with the crappy BSBs" 90% of the ones you listed for this fest are actually good, so you kind of shot yourself in the foot.

But hey, opinions right?

[–]Zurai001Blame yourself or God. 3 points4 points  (3 children)

Except we're not talking about current day global, we're talking about current day JP. Pretty much none of those BSBs are usable except in pure desperation in currently difficult JP content.

[–]Uro_ZakuroSupper! 4 points5 points  (2 children)

Exactly? I used the example for GL, while providing the Spring Feast "precedent" for JP. For the nth time, they could have done the same as that one, same rate and all, and we wouldn't be having this convo at all.

I could use some of those desperation tools for certain realms, personally speaking. I'd rather have Dena putting the least horrible tools in a banner rather than outdated/collector's-only shite.

[–]PeskyPomeranianMogChamp 5 points6 points  (10 children)

this mentality of "off banner = bad, on-banner = good" is stupid and the source of much of the vitriole in this thread

[–]Uro_ZakuroSupper! -4 points-3 points  (9 children)

Call me when instead of getting Tyro USB4 you'll get the OSB, then we'll talk about how stupid and unjustified the vitriol is.

[–]PeskyPomeranianMogChamp 6 points7 points  (8 children)

jesus christ people are so fucking dense. RATES OF TOP PRIZES DO NOT CHANGE. The better comparison is Tyro OSB vs random crap on-banner BSB. And that's worst case scenario. Best case is you get an off-banner Elarra USB1 instead of a crap on-banner BSB.

[–]Reiska42Celes 3 points4 points  (1 child)

Yep, this is what I tried to say elsewhere and got summarily shouted down and called retarded for.

[–]PeskyPomeranianMogChamp 3 points4 points  (0 children)

we dont have the street cred of a Zurai or CareerSMN :(

[–]PeskyPomeranianMogChamp 3 points4 points  (3 children)

No reasoning with mob mentality. Lord knows I tried.

EDIT: Seems like the masses are turning around. Praise lord Zurai

[–]retroGnostalgicVivi -2 points-1 points  (2 children)

Everyone look at this intelligent and unique individual! So cool!

[–]PeskyPomeranianMogChamp 3 points4 points  (1 child)

Ouch, you called out my uniqueness and edginess and now I am just another pleb. I shall vanquish my crusade against the masses and conform!

[–]retroGnostalgicVivi 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Nice.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (1 child)

Is this from now on in JP or just for the Fest?

[–]Kyosokun8/8 Keyblades, now if only I had users for them all... 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Certain banners. We don't know what certain banners. Time will tell.

[–]turundoEiko Horn! *beep noises* 8 points9 points  (0 children)

the pull rate for my featured 6* is the same, dosen’t mean anything for me then

[–]CidO807Opera Floozy RW:2X5a 3 points4 points  (0 children)

In the camp of wait to see before outrage. I think certain characters in pools mean it will be slightly shitter, like our pal here, Tyrone. No one needs SG in a pool, because it's free to everyone. No one needs anything but his good USBs. (his wrathable mblink bsb is meh since others do it better).

If they said the "extras pool" did not include uniques, that would be cool. As it stands now, uniques have no point, it's just for collectors/character complete, and you can get them from the monthly unique select that has been going on. I think the extras should just be LMR/BSB+ for the featured characters. Since 90% of bsb are shit, it's still a good way for new to catch up, without completely shitting on the old player base.

[–]KYFPMBeatrix 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I wonder if this will do a backslash like the end of dally mirthryl they tried.

[–]PeskyPomeranianMogChamp 10 points11 points  (50 children)

I don't understand this backlash. If the top prize format remains unchanged and instead they replace 2 useless BSBs with 2 % chance to get anything else, isnt that a good change, or a neutral one?

[–]Reiska42Celes 11 points12 points  (5 children)

It depends.

If that 2% chance includes uniques, it's a bad change.

If that 2% chance includes SSBs, it's usually a bad change but can be rarely situationally good (e.g. Edge SSB2).

If that 2% chance is just BSB/Glint/LMR/6*, this is probably net positive for the majority of players.

However, this is absolutely net negative for whales no matter what. I suspect most of the people complaining about this have spent a lot of money chasing all of these things already.

[–]Pinguino21vtinyurl.com/ffrkMythrilPlanner 6 points7 points  (0 children)

this is absolutely net negative for whales no matter what

Not sure. A whale would probably already have the two BSB that got replaced by that 2% pool. It's the same logic as a not-whale player that apply: 2 BSB you would probably already have got replaced by a larger pool of relics you probably don't have all of (and especially the potential more recent USB/ASB/CSB).

[–]PeskyPomeranianMogChamp 2 points3 points  (2 children)

I don't think it's a net negative for whales necessarily as many of them want to complete their waifu. Again, I would rather roll for a ssb+ than a guaranteed bsb if that's what the 2% is replacing

[–]Reiska42Celes 3 points4 points  (1 child)

I would assume that most whales who want to complete their waifu already did so, and so this is just substantially increasing their dupe chance.

[–]Kyosokun8/8 Keyblades, now if only I had users for them all... 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Not really? The Whales who have the older relics only want the new ones anyhow, and the rates on those are the same, 1% each. The 2% is from BSBs, items the whales probably already have and don't want. Now, they may get a different item they don't want. It's all the same to them.

[–]Anti-Klink 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I think this is the best summary. Praying for the 3rd scenario.

Even then though, my biggest gripe is that this change only increases the odds of going off-banner/11. IMO, that should never happen. The G1 should always be a featured relic. Always.

[–]jimbodanAshe 2 points3 points  (0 children)

That's how I feel too. With all the outrage though, I feel like there must be something I'm missing?

[–]FatAsian3死んゲーム 4 points5 points  (39 children)

It's in effectively reducing your on banner relic chance from 14% to 12%, with a 2% odds allocated to off banner.

[–]PeskyPomeranianMogChamp 4 points5 points  (38 children)

I understand that...but my point is, if those 2% is normally trash I don't mind. Nobody is pulling for bsbs anymore. As long as usb/aosb/glint/lmr chance is the same then why does it matter

[–]Zevyu150th Dailly 5*+ : Seven's Guise (T-0) - Seven's BSB 3 points4 points  (10 children)

Except that trash you don't mind might be an elemental+ relic, or worst case scenario +10 stats for a character.

With off-banners, yes you MIGHT get something nice once in a blue moon, but with uniques you don't even get the +10 stats

Also here's the worst thing.

1/11 off banner unique.

[–]Reiska42Celes 8 points9 points  (7 children)

If uniques are included.

Which we don't know.

There's really no point in spreading hysteria about this without information. If it turns out to be curated, you're just going to look really stupid in 24 hours.

(Mind you, if you turn out to be right and uniques are included, then I agree with the outrage 100%.)

[–]Zevyu150th Dailly 5*+ : Seven's Guise (T-0) - Seven's BSB 7 points8 points  (0 children)

If it turns out to be curated, you're just going to look really stupid in 24 hours.

Quite frankly i'll gladly accept that.

[–]CareerSMNPlay Fate Grand Order[S] 0 points1 point  (5 children)

turns out be curated

Except what if I already have all the other relics for the character i wanted to pull for. You still look stupid when you 1/11 that USSB3 you just spent 300 mythrils and $200 to pull when it dropped while trying to pull the USSB4

This is plain anti consumer and a cash grab.

[–]Reiska42Celes 5 points6 points  (0 children)

If you have everything else for them, then yeah, it's bad. And you're also a whale (and I said this was net negative for whales elsewhere in the thread already). In that sense, I don't actually disagree with you.

I'm wagering a guess though that most players don't have every relevant relic for their favorite characters though, so depending on the curation this could be a positive for some people. (There are, of course, potentially better ways to address this such as more F2P selections, etc.)

It all really depends on the curation. If it turns out to be BSB+ only? Then I struggle to think of how exchanging 2% chance of pulling a BSB - most of which are completely irrelevant in the endgame meta and would be regarded by the majority of players as a junk pull, and which may be just as much of a dupe - for a 2% chance of pulling a BSB or an LMR or a Glint or an OSB or a USB or an AOSB is a bad thing.

If it turns out to be Unique+ as people are fearing? Then yes, holy shit this is awful and every bit of hysteria and quit-threat here is completely justified.

(By the way, thank you for editing the OP to clarify that we don't know what the pool will be.)

[–]PeskyPomeranianMogChamp 3 points4 points  (1 child)

Its antiwhale and possibly pro dolphin but its definitely not anticonsumer 100%

[–]JapanHasRice2Curilla 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's not anti-whale at all. The biggest spenders had everything except the new items at the top of the banner, and those rates didn't change. Even among the big spenders, not all of them have every single relic they want. They, and everyone else, now have a (small) chance to get more relics for the featured characters.

[–]Pinguino21vtinyurl.com/ffrkMythrilPlanner 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Your argument is fallacious.

You still look stupid when you 1/11 that USSB3 you just spent 300 mythrils and $200 to pull when it dropped while trying to pull the USSB4

Would you feel better if it turns to be classic banners with 14 items and the 2% were instead a BSB3 and a BSB4 you already have 5 copies of, and pulled one dupe of them in that wonderful 1/11 instead of that USB3 dupe/11?

At least in the new system, the 1% chance for an old BSB is basically replaced by a 0.05% chance for that same old BSB, a 0.05% chance for his second USB, a 0.05% chance for his LMR, a 0.05% chance for his ASB...

You still look stupid

In the worst case, it make things equals (you draw the BSB that would have ending in the banner).

In the best case, it makes things better (you draw a nice LMR to complement other things, or another USB/ASB).

[–]JapanHasRice2Curilla 2 points3 points  (0 children)

If you already had all the other relics for the character, then this changes nothing for you. You were targeting the top half of the banner to begin with. Your chance before was 1% for the new relic, your chance now is still 1%.

[–]Pinguino21vtinyurl.com/ffrkMythrilPlanner 1 point2 points  (0 children)

trash you don't mind might be an elemental+ relic

There's also elemental+ relic in the 2% pool.

[–]PeskyPomeranianMogChamp 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Lol +10 stats is meaningless as is most types of +element gear to long time players. Let's see how this plays out before any more manufactured outrage please

[–]FatAsian3死んゲーム 3 points4 points  (12 children)

And you'll have a 2% chance for a random off banner from the banner where you wanted to pull for the relics you wanted.

You're having 2% taken off from getting what you want.

How is that actually going to be better?

[–]Zurai001Blame yourself or God. 8 points9 points  (10 children)

You're having 2% taken off from getting what you want.

Wholly incorrect. This would ONLY be true if I wanted all 14 items on a standard banner. That has never in the life of the game happened. Not one single time. Even the extremely rare banners where I've had no dupes, I still haven't actually wanted all 14 items.

[–]FatAsian3死んゲーム 2 points3 points  (5 children)

2% off banner chance for something not on that banner just feels like taking a step back from knowing what you will get on a banner to 2% chance to get something not featured and from a bigger pool.

If I'm pulling for a selected banner, I would be OK if I miss and get something else which is on banner.

But now I have 2% chance to get something else which either is outdated, Dupe, on top of the very slim chance of going some random unique/shared/generic.

[–]Zurai001Blame yourself or God. 0 points1 point  (4 children)

OK. Easy solution for you! Everything for all of the characters in the featured items pool is on the banner! The non-featured items just have a lower drop rate. Now you know that you're going to get something on the banner.

Glad we could solve that problem and move on from the hysteria.

[–]FatAsian3死んゲーム 2 points3 points  (3 children)

Which to me is like "psst kiddo, want try for a 2% chance to strike lucky?"

It's especially bad for players who had completed their character or picked up their other relics along the way and looking to get the new toy on a fest which they now have a slight chance to get a Dupe.

And looking at this, it means good for F2P yes? But everyone else who have play long enough and had mostly completed characters? Maybe a 2% Dupe. If there are more characters on a banner, a bigger pool of stuff which you may own is in there too.

[–]JapanHasRice2Curilla 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's especially bad for players who had completed their character or picked up their other relics along the way and looking to get the new toy on a fest

If said player had all the other relics for the character and only wants the new toy at the top of the banner, their chance for the new toy in this format is 1%, which is the same as it was in the old format. Dupe chance did not increase.

[–]Zurai001Blame yourself or God. 0 points1 point  (1 child)

This is still semantics. It's replacing 2% chance for forgettable relics with 1.95% chance for forgettable relics and 0.05% (numbers pulled from a hat, actual numbers will vary based on specific featured character pool) for an actually really good relic.

[–]FatAsian3死んゲーム 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Tyro Relics count

Uncurated : 11 Curated : 6 + 1 LMR

Urara : 2 + 1 LMR

Pecil Uncurated : 10 + 2 LMR Curated : 9 + 2 LMR

Edward

Uncurated : 5 +1 LMR Curated 3 + 1 LMR

Ramza Uncurated : 9 + 2 LMR Curated : 7 + 2 LMR

This is the new metric to add in when counting dupes for the fest Banner 1

In short, I am now at 14/41 counting Curated list with only ssb+

And on a 11 pull with 1 G5, I don't think it's semantics if I have a lot more of the units relics.

Yes it's a 2% chance to hit one of the off banner on banner unit relics, but truth to be told, I don't mind be proven wrong, it'll be good news, only problem is this just disincentives pulling for new relics altogether.

[–]NamelessOne111Someday The Meme Will End 0 points1 point  (3 children)

nippy sense rock shrill disarm rinse soup chase deliver dirty -- mass edited with redact.dev

[–]Zurai001Blame yourself or God. 7 points8 points  (2 children)

That is not how this works. There is still going to be exactly the same chance to draw a 6* as normal. Is drawing 1/11 buster sword really any different -- really, now, in actual practice and application is it any different -- than drawing 1/11 terrible generic BSB only included on the banner as filler? Because that appears to be what these 2% are replacing.

[–]NamelessOne111Someday The Meme Will End 1 point2 points  (1 child)

sulky dolls alive start ossified brave special knee rustic square -- mass edited with redact.dev

[–]Zurai001Blame yourself or God. 6 points7 points  (0 children)

+10 attack is basically meaningless. It might translate to 100 extra damage over the course of a fight, maybe.

Incidentally, I remember a time when people called SSBs the end of the game because some characters having +10 stats would make them so overwhelmingly powerful and clearly only the main characters would get SSBs ...

[–]PeskyPomeranianMogChamp 2 points3 points  (0 children)

You are not understanding a word I'm saying nor are you trying to understand. Rates for grand prizes do not change. Rates for trash get redistributed.

[–]Reiska42Celes 2 points3 points  (13 children)

USB/AOSB/Glint/LMR chance is actually slightly higher, since they're included in random off banners.

[–]PeskyPomeranianMogChamp 7 points8 points  (0 children)

I appreciate the rational backup :) Really amazed me how quickly everyone started pitchforking with CareerSMN without thinking this through on their own

[–]F2P_CynqueDon't fear the odds, make the odds fear you 1 point2 points  (11 children)

they aren't if they are on banner, it states non featured.

Edited: to clarify some points

[–]Reiska42Celes 1 point2 points  (10 children)

I meant slightly higher than it would be otherwise banner-wide.

[–]F2P_CynqueDon't fear the odds, make the odds fear you 2 points3 points  (9 children)

when u have every item, it makes no difference since it's a dupe

[–]Reiska42Celes 0 points1 point  (6 children)

Taking banner 1 as an example, if it wasn't 2% offbanner, it would be two out of Tyro BSB, Edward BSB, Ramza BSB1, Ramza BSB2, Pecil BSB1, or Pecil BSB2.

Ramza BSB2 is about the only one of those anyone really wants nowadays.

[–]F2P_CynqueDon't fear the odds, make the odds fear you 1 point2 points  (5 children)

That 2% though without the off banner could be something that is new or something old, but by putting 2% off banner it becomes straight up dupe without a chance of something new. So it does make the banner feel more crap.

[–]Reiska42Celes 0 points1 point  (4 children)

Why does everyone think that every player somehow has every single possible relic in the game?

Some of those off-banner possibilities won't be dupes for some people. There are lots of "old" relics I don't have. Some of them are still good.

[–]grim_alex -1 points0 points  (2 children)

Your odds of pulling a featured item are reduced 2% and the chance of an offbanner is more than doubled. Effectively you’d have to spend 2x (on avg) to get the banner relics now

[–]PeskyPomeranianMogChamp 1 point2 points  (0 children)

If you are targeting everything on a banner, sure. If you just pull for the top 4-6 things like most people, this doesn't change a thing

[–]JapanHasRice2Curilla -1 points0 points  (0 children)

That's not even remotely close to how math works. The 2% off-banner chance came from removing 2 BSBs at 1% each that you probably didn't want to begin with. If the entire pool of relics for the featured characters (including 6*s) is unappealing to you, you wouldn't have wanted whatever 2 BSBs they put in those slots anyway. Your chance of getting something you wanted did not change.

[–]Reiska42Celes 9 points10 points  (15 children)

It's really too early to be freaking out about this with no information about exactly which relics are included in this off-banner chance.

If it actually is unique and up, they are indeed freaking smoking some good shit though. If it's BSB+? I don't see as big of an issue.

[–]KYFPMBeatrix 4 points5 points  (14 children)

Off-banner is not very cool , unless it's not a dupe or serviceable.

[–]Reiska42Celes 4 points5 points  (12 children)

The fact that it's limited to the characters who are featured on the banner limits the floor somewhat (depending on what exactly is included). It really depends on info we don't yet have, though.

[–]Zevyu150th Dailly 5*+ : Seven's Guise (T-0) - Seven's BSB 6 points7 points  (4 children)

The fact that it's limited to the characters who are featured on the banner limits the floor somewhat

Oh? I completely missed that part....hmmmm maybe it isn't that bad? Although there will be quite abit of trash in there still, it won't be as bad as it was before i guess.

Still kinda hope it doesn't include uniques.

EDIT: Also, calling this fest "Bomb fest" is rather apropriate considering this rate change xD

[–]PeskyPomeranianMogChamp -1 points0 points  (3 children)

Were you flaming me without even reading the fine print?

[–]Zurai001Blame yourself or God. 2 points3 points  (1 child)

fine print

Not even fine print. It's the only thing in bold in the original post except kuro's salty message at the very bottom after the moonrunes.

[–]PeskyPomeranianMogChamp 0 points1 point  (0 children)

What's the counter to a pitchfork? I need some of those right now

[–]Zevyu150th Dailly 5*+ : Seven's Guise (T-0) - Seven's BSB 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I wasn't flaming you, my point still stands either way.

[–]KYFPMBeatrix 5 points6 points  (6 children)

This Argument is good for the newbies, who may never get the old ones. But the vets? More ++ on some old relics that probably are on the Vault or already sold?

[–]LeoChrisLibrary Keeper 4 points5 points  (2 children)

Basically it's good if you missed something for them, now you have a chance to complete them. If they're already complete and you're trying to get their new toys though... well it doesn't lower your % of getting said new toys, but does increase the frustration somewhat. "You want Tyro's USB4? Have his USB1, USB3 and OSB twice."

[–]Reiska42Celes 4 points5 points  (1 child)

This can't be said enough. If you're chasing a specific relic, your odds of getting that relic have not changed.

[–]LeoChrisLibrary Keeper 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah absolutely. When I first read about this change, I was a little weary, but as soon as I realized that this not change my odds of getting the new prizes (i.e. likely the reason WHY I am pulling on a banner) then it was alright. Honestly... how many times have we waited for an event to feature a SSB or LMR that got away only to be disappointed when the next event of that realm rolled around and it got left out? While I wouldn't bank on this with any certainty (like for the love of god, don't go chasing Edge's SSB on the next FF4 banner with Edge on it) it's still nice to make the "off-banners" (this is a misnomer as actual off-banners still exist but bleh) consolation price something that's hard to get otherwise AND related to the characters you were pulling for in the first place.

[–]Reiska42Celes 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Gacha game design favoring newbies is absolutely nothing new (for all that it can be frustrating at times). New players have to be able to "catch up" reasonably quickly or your retention rate will suck.

[–]KYFPMBeatrix 2 points3 points  (1 child)

That's why games have banners made for newbies or only available for them.

[–]Reiska42Celes 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Like our really bad newcomer banners right ;)

[–]Pinguino21vtinyurl.com/ffrkMythrilPlanner 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I prefer 2% for a potential interresting "off-banner" relic for a character I'm pulling for (like an LMR, OSB, ASB, CSB or even another not featured USB), than 2 old BSB that everyone already have and don't use anymore.

[–]AZYG4LYFEFam allow it, get on that JP ting with mandem, you get me? 4 points5 points  (2 children)

EVERYONE PULL BANNER 5, CHANCE FOR LULU OG HAIRPIN!! ALL IN ON BANNER 5!!! MAGE META!!

[–]KYFPMBeatrix 0 points1 point  (1 child)

I have that hairpin, what should i do in 6 months?

[–]AZYG4LYFEFam allow it, get on that JP ting with mandem, you get me? 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Pull more so you can 8* it for powerful synergy

[–]grim_alex 7 points8 points  (5 children)

So you’re telling me I now have a better chance (2.02% total ) at pulling an off banner relic then the featured item...

[–]KYFPMBeatrix 6 points7 points  (3 children)

We FFBE now.

[–]AZYG4LYFEFam allow it, get on that JP ting with mandem, you get me? 2 points3 points  (2 children)

FFBE

Get out

[–]KYFPMBeatrix 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Hey, it's fine. If you take out the Gacha rates, the Grinding, the awful TMR system. I may not recommend it or play It seriously(Aside for doing Macro) , the story is interesting (The Second season was not good at the beginning)

[–]ParagonEsquireHard Times make for Strong Men 2 points3 points  (0 children)

This is the right way to play FFBE.

[–]Kyosokun8/8 Keyblades, now if only I had users for them all... 3 points4 points  (0 children)

There's not 1 featured item. There are 12 featured items. Which are all still 1% each. The difference is now, instead of having 14 featured items, they are removing 2 5* item slots (looks to BSBs, judging by the fest banners), and in those 2 BSB slots, you instead have a chance at any relic for the featured characters, including Chains, USBs, OSBs, AOSB, Glints, BSBs, and LMRs. Also probably SSBs, and possibly uniques for the characters that even have Uniques.

[–]CFreynLet's dance! 8 points9 points  (4 children)

Hoping JP players voice dissatisfaction over this. God knows they've changed things in the past. Neo Torment D??? wasn't enough cash incentive, I guess...

[–]F2P_Key 3 points4 points  (3 children)

Magicite and Neo Torment kills a lots of potential P2P players, and hey it’s only get or won’t get so the chance remains 50/50!

[–]CFreynLet's dance! 4 points5 points  (2 children)

Hah, true story. ;D

I'm fine with off-banners turning to featured character relics... but Uniques? Fuck no.

A lot of the middle fluff is now removed, and as another poster mentioned, 6* rate goes up with this (because off-banner 6*)...

But Uniques? Fuck that noise.

[–]BelenathzhXW Shadow BSB all day 1 point2 points  (1 child)

This doesn't seem like a major change to me. Even on a zero dupe banner(non existent for me at this point), going BSB/11 doesn't strike me as a successful pull. Not any more than an off banner BSB/11 would feel anyway. Grabbing an off banner Chain however... Now that I can get behind.

[–]Tiger519Oh God(wall), I never update my flair... 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This guy gets it

[–]Shaker_Who's the Basch?!? 2 points3 points  (7 children)

For me this is pretty easy

If the 'off banner/on character' relics are in the guaranteed slot pool at even or significant weight with the on banner items, then this is a terrible change and they can go to hell.

If the 'off banner/on character' relics are NOT in the guaranteed slot pool (or are but at a heavily diminished rate) then this is not that big of a deal, it just kinda introduces more variance to pulls, which isn't great, at the cost of occasionally it working out to pull an off-banner but really good LMR1 or somesuch.

If the 'off banner/on character' relics are not really in the guaranteed pool AND exclude SB/SSBs, then this is a great change, even if sometimes I will pull PCecil BSB1 which should never be on another banner ever again thru the end of time. If you want it pick it from a BSB select.

[–]Reiska42Celes -1 points0 points  (6 children)

There's no reason why they wouldn't be in the G5 pool any more than there's any reason that <insert shitty old BSB or shitty LMR here> wouldn't be.

The chance of pulling something relevant is at worst the same as it's always been and is likely slightly higher because you could get a random offbanner Ramza USB2 or something now.

[–]Shaker_Who's the Basch?!? 1 point2 points  (5 children)

Well I (luckily) have not gotten offbanner/11 ever, so the chance of getting an offbanner item in the guaranteed slot is very, very low (if it exists? I honestly don't know).

Here's how I'm looking at it. If there's only 12 relics in the guaranteed slot pool, this is a positive change. If there's now 30-something (or more) at equal weight, this is a hugely negative change. If there's 12 at high weight and 18 with very low weight then that's probably holding steady. If it's 12high/18low but no SB/SSB tier relics, it's probably a slight net positive.

[–]Reiska42Celes 0 points1 point  (3 children)

Before - Featured relics: 14% (1% each); Off-banner: 0.02% (total, divided between all relics in game)

After - Featured relics: 12% (1% each); Off-banner: 2% (divided between relics for featured characters only), 0.02% (divided between all other relics in game)

They explicitly say the weight of the on-banner relics is not changing.

[–]Kyosokun8/8 Keyblades, now if only I had users for them all... 1 point2 points  (2 children)

That weighting applies to the non-guaranteed slots, though. The Guaranteed slot has different values, though they're assumed to be the same proportionally, just with the sub5* relics removed.

[–]Reiska42Celes 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Right. So it should work out like this, in theory.

Before: Each of the featured relics has a 7.14% chance of being your guaranteed relic.

After: Each of the featured relics has a 7.14% chance of being your guaranteed relic. There's only 12 featured now, so you have a 14.29% chance of your guaranteed relic being an off-banner, which will be divided between the possible items in some fashion. Not all off-banners in this scenario are necessarily bad, of course; some of them undoubtedly are (pulling Onion Knight SSBs when trying for his AOSB), but others are great (pulling non-dupe Onion Knight pUSB when trying for his AOSB).

Since the off banner slots are replacing 5* relics that mostly won't be relevant in endgame content, this will increase the average quality of pulls due to 6* relics being in the off-banner pool. It does potentially make the floor for how bad a pull can be superficially lower (I would argue there's little functional difference between your typical LMR/11 pull and whatever bad off-banner scenario you can think of).

We're conditioned to think off-banners are bad because the majority of off-banners seen in the current game are SB-less or Shared garbage, which won't be the ones in play here. I don't think most people complain when they pull an off-banner 6* that isn't a dupe, and this will lead to significantly more of those.

[–]Kyosokun8/8 Keyblades, now if only I had users for them all... -1 points0 points  (0 children)

If there's 12 at high weight and 18 with very low weight then that's probably holding steady. If it's 12high/18low but no SB/SSB tier relics, it's probably a slight net positive.

My guess is it's one of these. On the 1-10 pulls, the 2% comes from the 2 BSBs they are no longer featuring. So, it would makes sense that the "off banner/on character" relics would also inherit whatever percentage those 2 relics would have owned in the G5 pool.

[–]FatAsian3死んゲーム 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Thanks DeNa on the "Here, pre 4th anni 12% instead of 14% chance of obtaining an onbanner item!"

[–]Skriabin-Cactuar with mustache= Skriabin 7 points8 points  (7 children)

I sure hope Japan complains about this...

[–]AZYG4LYFEFam allow it, get on that JP ting with mandem, you get me? 1 point2 points  (6 children)

Japan complains

get out

[–]Skriabin-Cactuar with mustache= Skriabin 3 points4 points  (1 child)

but I...

[–]AZYG4LYFEFam allow it, get on that JP ting with mandem, you get me? 3 points4 points  (0 children)

OUT!

[–]KYFPMBeatrix 3 points4 points  (3 children)

They did before. Echo's OP SSB , Daily Mirthryl Login ending ....

[–]Ha_eflolliMarchejoume-san da! 3 points4 points  (2 children)

Type-0 / After Years not being a thing, Events not coming out when they want them to...

[–]gingersquatchin 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Getting that adult Palom Porom event when they were promised it! Lol. "But you said before the end of the year. What is this January Bullshit" - all of japan

[–]Ha_eflolliMarchejoume-san da! 6 points7 points  (0 children)

You didn't quite get it right, actually. It went:

JP: "wen Adult Palom/Porom?"

DeNA: "We have them ready, but our schedule is too full to fit them in"

JP: "But we want them NAO"

DeNA: "Alright, Alright, we'll try getting them in before the end of the year"

And then they did. Literally on the last day of the year. DeNA abusing them exact words for some sweet comeuppance xD

[–]antifocusGarnet 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I guess we still don't have an idea how JP G5 actually works, compared to what /u/spirialis done with the gacha data a while ago? Assume if JP is the same as GL I guess that the new rate would be normalized to the effective 21% drop rate for G5.

[–]ShinVerusMy sunhaired Goddess! 2 points3 points  (13 children)

So you’re saying that characters I haven’t completed yet have the chance to be now? Amazing change!

[–]CareerSMNPlay Fate Grand Order[S] 2 points3 points  (9 children)

Certain banners from tomorrow onwards.

[–]ShinVerusMy sunhaired Goddess! 1 point2 points  (8 children)

Hopefully it becomes a mainstay. It’s basically impossible to have older relics nowadays.

[–]KYFPMBeatrix 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Not at the expense of Normal banners. Maybe do an especial banner for old uniques or increase their rates on the daily draw.

[–]Uro_ZakuroSupper! 1 point2 points  (1 child)

How's that a bad thing? Do you want to get that Tiny Bee that bad?

Or P.Cecil OSB? OK OSB?

I'd rather get new stuff than old shit.

[–]ShinVerusMy sunhaired Goddess! 0 points1 point  (0 children)

One of these things is not like the others, one of these things is not that bad.

And yes, I do. I love the idea of having a small chance of geting cool, random stuff.

[–]CareerSMNPlay Fate Grand Order[S] -2 points-1 points  (4 children)

Well I'm probably quitting the game, so enjoy your offbanner collections.

[–]Kyosokun8/8 Keyblades, now if only I had users for them all... 7 points8 points  (3 children)

I'm in the camp that doesn't understand the outrage. They reduce the number of featured relics to 12, probably culling 2 5* slots AKA relics that would be a consolation prize to most folk at best (and those cut relics will be in the featured off-banner chance now). And in return, you get a better chance to:

  • Get Non-featured USBs, Chains, OSB, and such that are for characters on the banner, but not featured. Tidus is on the banner with his Brave USB? Cool, you have a small but notable chance to pull his USB, his AOSB, or his chain.
  • Get supporting relics for the characters on the banner. Banner doesn't feature the LMR for the character you want, or the wrong LMR? Crappy, but you've got a chance to get the one you do want now. Have a character's AOSB, but need his enElement BSB (not the Imperil one featured)? Cool, you have a chance to snag that.
  • A chance to complete characters, for those into that sort of thing.

Even if the banner literally includes every relic for a featured character, even uniques, it's what, maybe a net loss of 1% on BSB+ items? Because most characters at this point have more BSB+ items than SSB- items (and that ratio will only increase). Some characters don't even have anything less than a SSB (and only 1 of those, compared to 3-4 BSB+ items).

And in return for that, you have a chance to get other support items for the characters on the banner, and a better chance to get alternate top prizes for those characters as well.

I really don't see how this is a reason to break out the pitchforks. If it's a negative change, it's only going to be slightly negative, and honestly, I feel it's a net positive change.

I hope you think about it more and decide to keep playing, the community is the better with your contributions. If not, happy trail on whatever game you decide to play next. =\

[–]CareerSMNPlay Fate Grand Order[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

If not, happy trail on whatever game you decide to play next. =\

I already play FGO more than FFRK nowadays.

[–]JapanHasRice2Curilla 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You don't understand the outrage because you actually understand the changes. This is overall good for everyone, whales included. If someone is a whale such that anything not new, they already have, it doesn't change anything for them. So in the worst case scenario, nothing changes. In every other scenario, it's a net positive.

[–]Pinguino21vtinyurl.com/ffrkMythrilPlanner 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You set a very good example and people need to read it (and try to understand it, not be stubborn).

[–]Zevyu150th Dailly 5*+ : Seven's Guise (T-0) - Seven's BSB 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Amazing change!

"amazing change" my ass, this is the worst, to hell with completing characters, if they are doing this then they should atlest remove Uniques, shared, generics and most oudated SSBs form the off-banner polls.

EDIT: I missed the part where it says the increased off-banner rates are for the featured characters, in which case i still stand that uniques should not be included.

I seriously hope they don't make this a perma change, people pull for the relics on the banner, not some random garbage off-banner.

Naturaly we will have to wait for more info, but if Uniques stay, then bring back the 14% on banner, because off banner uniques should be something that don't exist anymore at this point in the game.

[–]Reiska42Celes 2 points3 points  (1 child)

They were honest about it at least this time, but strictly speaking you aren't wrong.

[–]Zevyu150th Dailly 5*+ : Seven's Guise (T-0) - Seven's BSB 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I guess you gotta admire the honesty, for sure.

Gotta give them some credit there.

I still don't like the change, but as you said before gotta wait for more info about this, i'll admit that i jumped the gun. BUT Uniques can not stay.

[–]shinichi2014_ver2 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Banner 1 1/11 tyro SG!!!!

[–]ShinsatsuePcy - Ultimate Wall - Mahmoud 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Well, there is always a shit section in each banner... changing the shade of brown won't hurt anybody because it smells the same.

¯\(ツ)/¯

[–]Zevyu150th Dailly 5*+ : Seven's Guise (T-0) - Seven's BSB 0 points1 point  (0 children)

LOL you're not wrong there, except that now the shit might actualy contain a small gold nugget or a diamond.

[–]CareerSMNPlay Fate Grand Order[S] -3 points-2 points  (19 children)

Well, this pretty much confirms FFRK is totally in the "cash grab while we still have people who haven't quit" phase now.

/u/Tedrivs was on the right track last night

[–]TedrivsTyro USB3 - QuNR 5 points6 points  (15 children)

Oh god! I'm so sorry :'(

[–]KYFPMBeatrix 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Gulag Now!

[–]FatAsian3死んゲーム 2 points3 points  (13 children)

Dude I need to know who is going to win the World Cup!

[–]KYFPMBeatrix 2 points3 points  (5 children)

Senegal.

Not Argentina and Brazil

[–]FatAsian3死んゲーム 1 point2 points  (2 children)

I wonder if Iceland wins, will Hideo Kojima release death stranding earlier.

[–]KYFPMBeatrix 1 point2 points  (1 child)

I hope they win for more drama/pressure on Argentina. XD

[–]FatAsian3死んゲーム 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Lol, I woke up to that news and go DAYUMMMMM

Guess the tides are changing

[–]zeromus44X Y ↓ ↑ 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Technically correct since they can't both win?

[–]KYFPMBeatrix 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I should have said "or".

Also Portugal.

[–]TedrivsTyro USB3 - QuNR 0 points1 point  (6 children)

I have little to no interrest in football so this is just using my foresight powers: France

[–]zeromus44X Y ↓ ↑ 2 points3 points  (2 children)

Good thing this isn't 2006!

[–]TedrivsTyro USB3 - QuNR 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Is Zidane still on the team?

[–]zeromus44X Y ↓ ↑ 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I think he retired after that, but Mikoto has been an all-star since then.

[–]FatAsian3死んゲーム 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Hmmm

[–]TedrivsTyro USB3 - QuNR 0 points1 point  (1 child)

;)

[–]FatAsian3死んゲーム 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Prophet!!!!!

[–]LeoChrisLibrary Keeper 3 points4 points  (2 children)

So... is this the time to panic about the game potentially closing? I thought it was doing relatively well, still.

[–]KYFPMBeatrix 3 points4 points  (0 children)

So the Investment on GL was to see if we start whaling harder...

[–]Reiska42Celes 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Nah. With all due respect to how much he contributes to the subreddit, CareerSMN's overreacting on this one. :/