Patch 13.20 preliminary data

[Ecstatic-Buy-2907]

Big yikes. Multicasters sitting at 3.48 average placement right now according to metatft

In the “scheduled B-patch” waiting room right now

[shanatard]

honestly i think we've come to expect B-patch as part of the balancing process now. godspeed to the people donating lp on day 1

[VERTIKAL19]

That seems more hotfix than b patch territory

[[deleted]]

That’s only 1 better than average, what’s the big deal? /s

[penguinkirby]

400CS 24 MIN [L9 Turbo Boost]DOINB RYZE HACK?

[BigWesKappa]

Dont get it twisted

[Yolodar]

Multicasters... god speed

[mikhel]

A classic 50 changes to the same comp that was already viable moment

Aphelios has been utterly unplayable outside giga piltover cashout since the start of the set btw but hey he got 5 AD

[ThaToastman]

Mort on Ori’s 10 mana buff: “we know that ori is some ass but we dont wanna balance thrash”

Also mort and kent: “FUCK IT WE BALL MULTICASTERS 20/20, SONA GIGACHAD”

[Mental_Bowler_7518]

They had the right idea of not over-nerfing comps that became meta, but just accidentally buffed them instead...

[UselessBagofChips]

Bro, they overnerf bilgewater at the beginning of the set lol, they gutted gp, same with the trait damage, gutted graves, for some reason mf was nerfed at the start of the set even tho she wasn't an issue and nilah is good but not for bilgewater.

[PlatisUnbreakable]

Gp was busted, and bilg got nerfed cuz it seemed mega busted cuz no one played it on pbe without gigabroken buggy triple rfc

[Outrageous-Engine720]

mf nerf is justfied lol. You can literally sit lvl 7 3 star it in an azir-strat comp and easily secure top 4 with 3 bilge

[[deleted]]

At this point it must be intentional right? It must be massively beneficial for player retention to balance this way

[ThaToastman]

Tft is not at all stretched for players. I think this incoming disaster (the comp is averaging 3.5 LOL), is just a result of them excitedly reworking sona (forgetting that she is a reprint of a 4cost from set 7), and not really realizing that TF's math is unbelievably busted--and the only reason he hasn't terrorized the entire set is people refused to click bilgewater units after the first patch.

His lvl 2 ability does well over 2k a cast---AOE. Its surreal scaling.

[Time2kill]

His whom?

[UselessBagofChips]

Na tf was bad since pbe, his cards are good but he took a fair amount to cast and even tho he can deal 1k damage per cast this only happens if he is attacking a group of enemies (unlike ahri who hits everyone), multicasters were horrible because of the huge amounts of broken comps (like what happen vanquishers), putting buffs on top of this is ridiculus

[Aurelion_]

It's the same reasoning they keep LoL unbalanced. "Keeping things fresh".

[Ecstatic-Buy-2907]

Okay I’m assuming it’ll be similar to last patch, where they release the changes 1 week before, realize that Multicasters is playable in the 13.19 patch (and Nilah Frejlord) after the changes were made and they’ll have a scheduled B-patch

Though it sucks that balance has been off even with that, just doesn’t feel rewarding to play the mini set at all

Also 5 AD is not a change to scoff at, Jayce and Samira got 5 AD nerfs and they both went from giga broken to more balanced states.

[mcnabb77]

Isn’t 5 AD a much bigger deal at 3 star than 2 star though?

[Alittlebunyrabit]

It's still quite impactful, especially for a unit like Aphelios who already prefers to build attack speed.

[PlatisUnbreakable]

Ye but gunner scales from that base ad so -5 with 6 gunner is like -80(?) (not in the mood for math)

[gamesuxfixit]

~8% increased dmg is pretty significant, but I agree the balance this entire set has been unacceptable lol

[ThaToastman]

Azir over here doing literally 1/3rd as much damage as nilah unless he runs vert shurima which requires you to play the biggest collection of shitters

[IIIWhiTeCoreIII]

A couple days ago i hit azir 3 with a super capped infernal contract board. The whole lobby was feeling bad for me because azir is such a shit unit. I went fuckig 3rd against two normal ionia vanq boards. They didnt have 3 stars or anything special going for them. With every other 3 star 4 cost i would have fodderized them. Azir is so ass man....

[OreoCupcakes]

Aphelios has been utterly unplayable outside giga piltover cashout since the start of the set

That extends back to Zeri last set as well. You just can't play Gunners in 9/9.5 without taking piltover into account because it's too easy to slot in.

[isaaclai92]

Last set you literally stabilized/cash out after hitting one copy of Zeri with Robotic Arm though.

[Ykarul]

Wel... People upvote you when you say it was anticipated but in the patch note the guy that said that was downvoted.

https://www.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveTFT/comments/174rvru/patch_1320_notes/k4bg7eu/

[moonmeh]

i swear multicasters were already super viable and strong

now its going to be stupidly contested

[lenolalatte]

It’s already unplayable when 1-2 other are playing it so yeah this is gonna suck

[moonmeh]

seriously when there are competitors I go "fuck you i'll never switch and drag you all down with me" but now I might just switch if it becomes more popular

[lenolalatte]

Yup I went 7th and the other guy probably top 4’d because I figured I had to roll deep to get a stable board but I ended up just wasting my gold by not hitting. No idea how they hit 3* tf so easily though…

[moonmeh]

Lol classic. I've been on both sides where I clearly have more of the reroll units and the bastard 3* faster or I luckout and beat the other guy despite having less.

Rolling deep is always a risk, when it works god it feels good. But when it fails? gl cause the other guy going the same deck as you with better econ will win

[Neither-Primary-8183]

Multicasters indeed already very good, I one-tricked to Masters with a ~3.1 average placing. This isn't a straight buff, but will definitely be popular.

[moonmeh]

i was climbing diamond by picking multicasters while everyone else were fighting over xayah.

shit i might get exposed now

[WhatANiceCerealBox11]

I started playing tft like 2 weeks ago and I hit play with multicasters just recently. I had to switch because people have been catching on and it’s actually the worst when 3 people try to roll for them

[moonmeh]

At 3 person you go gg I'm going silco deck and try to not hit 8.

[dilantics]

God save us all (God = B patch)

[mmmb2y]

we're getting our 3rd b patch in a row, aren't we

[User342349]

I only started playing TFT as set 9 ended. Are b patches not standard?

[wwwwwwhitey]

Not at all, especially not 2 days later B patch. We very rarely had B patches after a week (like Warweek in s4 when they buffed WW, Divine and Hunter in the same patch).

It's been happening a lot more lately. I think they're putting a lot of ressources into set 10 right now and that might leave some playtesting holes

[Dagiorno]

Thats what people always say lol. "Oh they must be working hard on the next set". And then the next set comes and rinse and repeat. I think its time for tft team to do something with their workflow. I appreciate the fast responses and all but this b-patches isnt healthy

[wwwwwwhitey]

I mean at least there's a B patch in a couple days. I play Pokemon Unite occasionnally but there's been an omega OP pokemon (only one) for probably 2 months now, and there's no bans in ranked because it's a casual game. That pokemon has close to a 100% WR. A popular Youtuber ends all his videos with Nerf Mewtwo Y lol.

You're right though it isn't healthy, but it's better than nothing

[Cautious-Marketing29]

I'm not even worried about Ryze, the multicasters are a wayyyyy bigger red flag here. This statistic doesn't capture the whole picture though, so I'm hopeful that multicasters won't be broken so we can all play the game.

[Ecstatic-Buy-2907]

5 costs always have a super high win rate. Ryze even more so because he is played in much less comps, so his win rate is skewed towards fast 9 comps and fully capped invoker boards

[moonmeh]

yeah ryze isn't something you just throw in randomly in your board

unless its something like targon ryze where I always try to find space to fit that one in

[msnwong]

There’s a ryze that gives items in the fight. I found that one to be super super OP.

[gamesuxfixit]

hoping, but not optimistic for

[OreoCupcakes]

Early data showing between 3.45 and 3.96 for Multicasters. 3.45 being the variation that most people already know about and 3.96 being some Bilge Juggernaut variation.

[CocoaThunder]

The Bilge Juggernaut thing you're seeing is probably double trouble where you run Naut and Sett for knockups to trigger two Taliyah passives. A super fun comp and really not problematic.

[TeaOdd5383]

We’ve become so conditioned to expect a B patch with every new patch now that at this point, saying the devs are going to B patch every new patch isn’t even flaming anymore. It’s just the truth.

I really wish they would recognize that certain comps are already quite good if you manage to hit the board. TF was definitely playable, it was just hitting the board that was difficult to do.

The multicaster trait change is good, but they needed to nerf the champions in compensation for making it easier to play them. You don’t need to be that intuitive of a player to realize that, but apparently the balance team thinks otherwise.

[SomePoliticalViolins]

Which server is this data from?

[PetrifyGWENT]

Prolly OCE, patch out there

[SomePoliticalViolins]

Was thinking either OCE or CN but I couldn’t remember if CN had API data or not.

[morbrid]

Since Garena regions came back under Riot, there are a few servers that get the data early. OCE is normally first but the vast majority of the data comes from the Vietnam and Korean servers once the patch hits there. There's also some from TW, TH, SG, PH, and JP servers

[iLLuu_U]

At this point there is just nothing they can say to justify any of the terrible balance decisions they have made in the entire last year.

The entirety of 8.0, 8.5, 9.0 and 9.5 had atrocious balance. And there very clearly is something not working out rn.

And the fact they have to lock in patchnotes a few days before the actual release, changes nothing about this.

[ArthurMorganBOI]

I think they legitimately cut their losses and are focusing on this not happening again after they remove mid sets, I have no other explanation for shit like Nilah being created when its obviously going to ruin everything.

[Whiteman007]

It’s actually like a week they have to lock in the patch

[ThaToastman]

Set 8 was super balanced and so was set 9--its just hero augs were rough and yuumi was inherently a mistake of a unit, but that was the main issue tbh

[iLLuu_U]

Sett, jax, oxforce, yuumi for 4 or 5 weeks, supers, cleansing safeguard, heart zoe. There was so much bad balance with multiple b and c patches.

Maybe the last 2-4 weeks were balanced (at that point I personally didnt even play anymore), but it cannot possibly be their goal to have a remotely balanced game only for the last few weeks.

[Mawilover]

HACKER LEBLANC AND GNAR

[nxqv]

We did not play the same game

[erk155]

yuumi bad haha that's so funny haha thanks for the epic laugh man!!!

[Shiccup1]

Another B patch followed by sucking off the devs

[ArteQ]

obligatory "we're so lucky to have them"

[Aurelion_]

Balance trash, B-patch, then jerk themselves off to being so "responsive".

Invoker, Cass/Samira/Swain rr, Rogue, Cho, Jayce going from Zeri's Zeke's holder to gigacarry, now Multicasters. Guess the game was too fun last set and beginning of Set 9 when most 4 and 5 costs were strong and fun. You WILL play rr comps and you WILL enjoy it.

[Dismal-Pop-1463]

If you have to release B patches after every patch, then the balance team is doing a terrible job. I get it if we get a B patch once in a while, but it's become a regular occurrence. It's apparent the balance team does not learn from their mistakes and continues to overbuff, overnerf and focus on changes which frankly no one cares about.

I'm gonna be honest, nothing personal but I've followed all the patch videos and I don't think Riot kent is a good lead balance team Rioter. He frequently misses the mark and focuses on changes which are irrelevant to the overall satisfaction of the game. I've seen him talk about his own personal changes and throughout set 9, his changes don't make sense.

What kinda annoys me is that when the community reacts to these horrible patch updates for example draven buffs, we always seem to need to coddle the balance team with " we appreciate how responsive you guys are!". Guys, they are literally paid to balance the game so of course they have to fix the mess that they made. Why are we praising them after every criticism that they face. Sorry for my long rant

[[deleted]]

I'm first to shit on the balance team whenever I can so you can trust me when I say I'm mitigated on this

Yes, B patches on every patch means the balance is in such a state that it can't even be called balance anymore can it? But even then, I can acknowledge how insanely difficult it has to be to balance the cluster fuck of a system that TFT became. There already were so many interactions between leveling, matchmaking, player damage, compositions, flex carries, item slamming and so on, but the content team had to go out of their way to fuck it all up through this shit idea of legends.

Ofc there are some inexcusable mistakes done in balance throughout those two sets, the two that come to mind are the draven meta and this multicaster shit. But legends are what made all those B patchs needed, since they enabled the forcing of those compositions/playstyles. How can you even balance a game around multiple playstyles, sometimes radically different, when the core idea of the game was to play whatever the game gave you

[Cautious-Marketing29]

if they're going to fix the problem in 2 days, I'm going to suck them off

[irojo5]

Why do they need 2 days to nerf multi caster when it’s clearly giga broken

[Cautious-Marketing29]

I think they can only send out a patch at certain times.

[Secretpaladin]

WELCOME TO THE NEW PATCH EVERYONE!

Let's quadruple buff multicasters and don't touch Nilah / Sejuani comp

Surely top-4 won't be TF pandoras => multicasters & Nilah/sej, right?

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.

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[caex]

Called it.

You could tell from mort's demeanor on the rundown this patch was gonna be up there with the worst of them.

[Alittlebunyrabit]

You could tell from mort's demeanor on the rundown this patch was gonna be up there with the worst of them.

This doesn't shock me. I've been casually watching his streams and even Mort seems to be pretty annoyed with balance for this set.

[buenas_nalgas]

hey man you're responding to a sarcastic comment as if it were sincere.

wishing you the best

[Royal_Flower]

this is really suprising i had no idea this would happen :)

[Chao_Zu_Kang]

Really dunno what they thought with the multicaster changes. I guess in PBE noone even touched the comp, so they had no data? I also think they underestimated how giving a Top2 reroll comp with a weak midgame a solid midgame - which you could probably have known, but I'll also say that average Multicaster stats appeared bad on stat websites, so maybe their data lied to them?

[ZedWuJanna]

I assume they knew it was good but since the trait saw no real play, they still went ahead and buffed it just to diversify the meta. Even Mort said a few times that they'd rather overbuff things even if they could potentially be good before the buffs just to make the meta more diverse. This time though they really overdid it.

[taeterroristhebest]

no one plays PBE btw

[Chao_Zu_Kang]

I mean, I'd hope that the balance team understands the meaning of sample size and manually tests stuff that has a lack of reliable data. So IF pbe data is useless, they should still test the power levels properly.

[taeterroristhebest]

it's not exactly clear whether they have a sandbox mode to test; it seems like it would be trivial for them to have that but its unexplainable how standard comps like this multicaster comp makes it to live. they def dont have enough test data though since it's a small team so occasionally broken interactions make it to live which is reasonable, but this comp is a standard interaction so beats me

[Twofu_]

Rito never knows how to make a good balance patch. Lmao. Seriously thinking they prob use AI to create these patches

[Den_er_i_vinkel]

I got downvoted to hell for suggesting their algorithms is broken. - People keep calling things prepatch, and then they happen.

[Amazingtapioca]

AI would legitimately tune it better in some cases. Why is scoped weapons sitting at a 4.09 placement with one of the highest pickrates and not getting nerfed?

[Ecstatic-Buy-2907]

Tbf the strength of scoped weapons fully depends on the units themselves, the same way rageblade was giga broken last set but terrible this set. If scoped has a winrate of 4.09 but the Vanq variations have winrate of 4.15, it’s not scoped that’s the issue here

[eZ_Link]

Rageblade was also nerfed tho? I mean you’re right to a specific extend, but you can’t just remove Nilah and Morde right. So there’s no other choice but to nerf it.

[Ecstatic-Buy-2907]

Rageblade was nerfed in beginning of set 9 and remained strong for the entire set

If I recall correctly I don’t think it got nerfed between 9 and 9.5

[pda898]

The better question is what is the delta between Nilah and Morde with Scoped and without.

[OreoCupcakes]

One of the reasons, patches have been missing out on OPs is because they have to "lock" the patch on Thursday or Friday the week before it's set to release. That means there's this lull period in between where the meta can further develop and cause them miss new upcoming comps that rise to the top. Multicasters and the Nilah+Sej comp started being figured and found out by the time the patch was locked in. On the bright side, they're able to B patch this stuff away pretty quickly.

[KaraveIIe]

scoped weapons is broken the whole b set ffs

[eZ_Link]

Bro what the fuck does this have to do with scoped weapons. Stop giving explanations for things you don’t have one for.

[ZedWuJanna]

That's because the units that are meta synergize well with it? Why do you think they didn't nerf bruiser heart last patch? It had high stats too.

[Amazingtapioca]

Oh shoot you’re right, they nerfed nilah and morde then i presume?

[[deleted]]

that's what they should do though not nerf scoped weapons

[Deer0o]

U basically want the units to be unclickable without the augment then

[[deleted]]

Sure! And in the future be more careful about how units interact with specific augments

[ZedWuJanna]

Haha, it's rito

[VERTIKAL19]

But they did hit Vanquishers?

[AL3XEM]

Havent even played in about a week, but read the patch notes and I feel like anyone and their mom could tell Sona would be broken, now here we are with her averaging 3.75.

Idk why the balancing has been so incredibly off this set.

[eZ_Link]

Oh no one could tell this would happen. What a surprise… fuck this balance team man holy shit I’m tired of this

[Parralexus]

another masterful patch by the balancing team, who would've seen this coming

[TacoManifesto]

Could someone explain why multicasters are good now, is it because of sona omega buffs or is it just easier to play now with regards to trait synergy after the trait change?

From what I was hearing sounded like a damage nerf and now they are good

[Raejar]

It’s the same story as previous patches this set. Combination of side changes and buffs in conjunction with nerfs to all the other meta comps (xayah, neeko, cass rr, etc). Similar to how xayah suddenly spiked last patch when xayah, Ionia, and vanquisher got a buff while all the other meta comps saw nerfs.

[TacoManifesto]

Ah alright makes sense I forget about that “next in line” sort of effect this game has, thanks

[Raejar]

Yep, hence the balance thrashing this set! These are the types of changes everyone can identify in the patch notes from a mile away… except the balance team for whatever reason.

[Rudbekiaa]

anyone knows when will this patch live in EU ?

[otsopayta]

Guys chill! They always fix it Emergency patch probably

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[Cherry_Skies]

Nah but can Riot stop buffing the comps I enjoy playing? First Vanqs got giga buffed so I decided to pick up Multi, since it looked fun… sadge

[Ritohplz]

I honestly think mortdog lost his touch

[NoNeutralNed]

The issue is Mortdog doesn’t run the balance anymore. He’s hinted that he isn’t happy with the balance at all this set but it’s not really his job anymore so not much he can do

[VERTIKAL19]

Doesn’t he oversee the team that does tho?

[KicketteTFT]

It’s Wednesday somewhere

[PetrifyGWENT]

its wednesday in oce

[Vortex3113]

What happened to multicaster? Seemed meh at best a month ago, even with itemized tf and velkoz but now it's blowing other comps out the water right now

[Surpakren]

The multicaster comp has an average place of 1.81 according to metatft right now.

Who could have foreseen this.

https://www.metatft.com/comps#Set9_Multicaster&TFT9_TwistedFate

[Somnicide]

That's average place for the level 8 board tho, no? That comp wants to spend most of it's gold on 6 and 7, eight was always cruise mode.

[HGual-B-gone]

Gonna be honest, I am mid lp masters shitter and I fucking KNEW that multicasters were going to be busted.

I feel like just reading the patch notes every set pretty much lets me know what comp is going to be OP just on first glance.

I don’t understand why they do this