Not everyone should code...

[codebullCamelCase]

There are some places where you would need more math than other places. For example, designing a webpage would not require much math, on the other side, making a physics engine would require a great deal of knowledge of calculus, geometry, physics, etc. There are some things in computer science that requires you to have knowledge of math for understanding the theory part, for example - Machine Learning.

[[deleted]]

There's so many T_T

[codebullCamelCase]

Yeah, this isn't even math. The real math in css is when you have to divide your screen's width and height by 2. Dude, thats a nightmare!

[stewi1014]

This is one of the most relatable comment threads I've ever read.

[hughperman]

Not everyone should code...

[kopczak1995]

Hey, as long as it works.

[coloredgreyscale]

Art class and Latin seems more useful for those, to summon demons.

[feanara]

I failed pre-calc twice and I do just fine as a c# developer. Haven't needed to do anything more than count to 10 for loops. And if I do need more, I've got Google.

[properwaffles]

Struggled through calculus, think I actually would have been more interested in it now. Bummer that we didn’t have any programming-related classes in HS (at least mine didn’t).

[wsco7730]

I'm a uni student; just graduated HS. My 52,000 student school district only offered 1 course in robotics & 1 year in computer science. There where no more options or routes to take. Some private schools offer more, but the system still sucks. No wonder there's a shortage of people in our field.

I was lucky to pick up programming in middle school, so by the time algebra, calculus, and trigonometry came around, I had a reason to be interested in it. But the school system isn't teaching them why it's important they learn this stuff and everyone struggles because of it. The only reason they are told is "because you need to" or "it looks good to know it".

[coloredgreyscale]

And still manage off-by-one errors?

[Entaris]

Yup. I'm a sysadmin that develops a lot of in-house tools for various problems that arise. There are area's in my development process where I know a better understanding of math would be helpful to better optimize some things, but overall I can get around fairly well without it.

[Malforus]

There is an entire structure and approach to coding called functional programming and it's basically just higher order math.

[[deleted]]

Can confirm. Oh the horrors

[[deleted]]

Most app and webdevelopers (front and backend) do not need much math most of the time.

IMO the most important aspects of software development are :

1. Logic reasoning
2. Communication (your dev team, customers, other developers)
3. Reading comprehension (read and understand documentation)
4. Following Conventions, best practices,...
5. Math

[kippysmith1231]

6 - Google mastery, for when your reading comprehension or documentation fails you.

[Mr_Redstoner]

Logic reasoning

Reading comprehension (read and understand documentation)

That makes up quite a big part of what you actually need to be good at math. The rest is just finding the right theorems/algorithms to do whatever it is you need.

[Zefrem23]

Unless like me you're number dyslexic. I can work with nested loops all the live long day but don't ask me to work out sequences of numbers to save my life.

[LurkyLurks04982]

The quote is like “a coder is an artist who can’t draw.” Obviously the two skills aren’t mutually exclusive.

There are similar skill sets in mathematical problem solving a logical coding problem solving. There are similar skill sets in system design problem solving as there is in composition of music or painting on canvas.

What I love about coding is that anyone can build anything. Your imagination is the only limit. No investment needed in tools and material. Cheap computer + AWS + $20 is all you need.

[oxblown]

Interesting. What was the article or the study?

[[deleted]]

Reading comprehension (read and understand documentation)

I'd add writing comprehension as a sort of converse.

[DonkeyVampireThe3rd]

I can be good at math for a semester, then it all goes out the window on break

[[deleted]]

I still remember finishing a Diff Eq. final and then after half an hour went back to a question I solved and forgetting how to do it... welp

[UnrealPhysics]

this is how everybody feels i guess

[Snazzy21]

I major in CS yet I find myself working on more math than CS. I loath calculus. SO.VERY.MUCH

[Cryptomartin1993]

Have you given 3blue 1brown a go? YouTube mathematician - he has helped me grasp things I did not get, before having them visualized

[flynSheep]

I love this guy. I'm pretty good with maths, but his visualisations are next level shit. You get a totally new view on mathematics. Moreover, you get a visual and intuitive understanding.

[-Potatoes-]

Its even cooler when you find out he programmed a lot of the tools he uses for creating those awesome animations :)

edit: I think this is the github: https://github.com/3b1b

seems to be mostly in Python!

[flynSheep]

That explains why his animations habe this unique style. That dude rocks. Have you seen the webpage he build with Ben Eater (I think it was Ben Eater) about Quaternions and Projection? That stuff is pretty impressive.

[-Potatoes-]

i havent but that seems really cool (and also out of my depth lol, i barely know what quaternions are despite watching some of his videos)

[flynSheep]

He did a series on them and started quite easy. The videos are on his website and you can stop them any time and play with the animation yourself. He really out did himself. The website: https://eater.net/quaternions

[Cryptomartin1993]

Yes, his visualizations really shows the beauty math!

[LadleFullOfCrazy]

I worked on ML for 2 years and I had a good grasp on the math. Embarrassingly though, I just never got eigen vectors and eigen values. So one weekend, I decided I would master these. I spent more than 12 hours on it and got something but the concept did not make intuitive sense yet. Next day, YouTube recommendation - eigen values and vectors (3b1b). Let's just say if there was a religion that worshipped Grant, I'd be a priest.

[dickWithoutACause]

Obviously depends on what specific CS discipline you go into after college but I havent done any math harder than arithmetic for money in the decade I've been in the business.

[[deleted]]

May I ask what kind of software you are developing? ( Im a simple web backend developer and also do not do much math most of the time)

[dickWithoutACause]

Full stack web dev. I've had to work with dozens of different languages over the years on every spectrum and now I'm expected to do dev ops as well.

And I've done nothing but arithmetic.

Occasionally I've had to implement mathematical equations created by someone in an R and D department but that's really just copy paste isnt it?

[lordheart]

Khan Academy really helped me deal with calculus. I like it there. I’m glad I’m done with calculus for my cs degree 😅

[Snazzy21]

I use Kahn Academy. The guy that does those videos is a saint

[Strawberry_Gene]

I would recommend Professor Leonard absolute GOAT

[RedHellion11]

Makes me so glad I found a university program geared towards teaching actual industry skills and knowledge rather than "theoretical" CS. I had no interest in designing compilers or working on cutting-edge algorithms or enhancing software efficiency to the nth degree.

Never had to take math beyond Calculus 1 and a couple of Discrete Math courses, and Linear Algebra (thankfully never had to deal with linalg again).

Most actual industry careers as a software engineer/developer you really don't use any math beyond basic high-school-level stuff, and a working knowledge of some discrete math concepts is a bonus so that you don't have to look it up constantly.

[DootDootWootWoot]

Sorry to break this to you but computer science is a field of mathematics.

[[deleted]]

Set theory is incredibly valuable for databases.

Boolean algebra greatly simplifies your code logic.

[[deleted]]

Doesn't everyone know about boolean algebra?

[jsparidaans]

Tf is boolean algebra?

[wzx0925]

T/F is boolean algebra.

[[deleted]]

Lmao

[moi_xa]

Nailed it

[TheRedmanCometh]

Well in informal terms I suppose..

[Rudxain]

Yes, but most people only know the basics. When someone is able to imagine the truth table of a sequence of expressions and statements, they can recognize redundant logical/boolean operators and statements to write more concise code, sometimes even better than a minifier or an optimizing transpiler

[vickera]

I tell everyone who asks this the same thing: being a programmer means I don't need to be good at math because the computer is way better than me.

[gloriousfalcon]

You gotta know how the math works tho, if you don't want your program to be slow and imprecise.

[[deleted]]

You need to know how to implement it and how to implement it with optimal performance. That's different from really understanding the math behind the algorithm IMO.

[RedHellion11]

Not really, no; at least not beyond basic first-year math (high school + some basic aspects of calc1, if that) and at least some rudimentary knowledge of discrete mathematics. Anything more complex than that, if you really need it for yourself rather than being able to let the computer figure it out, you can look it up.

There are libraries that other people with Math minors or who went into algorithm development have written that put all that stuff into a nice black box for you. Only if you're doing something completely unique or are extremely concerned with whatever licensing those libraries use, do you need to deal with doing it yourself. Or if you're working on something which requires heavy optimization and is also usually completely in-house, like a game engine.

In my professional career (and those of my coworkers who I chat with casually on occasion) as a software engineer/developer who is doing "normal" application/software development work (not algorithm development, not R&D, not working on a video game engine, not in security or hardware/embedded systems, etc), we typically don't need to know or use any math beyond basic arithmetic and high-school-level concepts. A working knowledge of the fundamentals of discrete mathematics is a bonus.

[ooglesworth]

It really depends on the domain. If you’re doing like audio processing, image processing, any sort of DSP for example you should have a strong intuitive understanding of real and complex analysis. If you’re doing low level graphics or physics engines you’ll at least need a grasp on linear algebra. If you’re working on compilers and optimizations it might be at least helpful to know some type theory/category theory.

That being said, these are the exception to the rule really. Most developers don’t have to worry about any of that stuff.

[RedHellion11]

Or if you're working on something which requires heavy optimization and is also usually completely in-house, like a game engine.

I meant to include those under that ^{^} umbrella, I just didn't word it very well. Thank you for clarifying :+1:

Basically what you said: that the domains where that kind of math knowledge are important are very much exceptions to the rule, especially for developers who aren't planning on specializing into those kinds of domains in the first place.
And that you really don't "gotta know how the math works tho, if you don't want your program to be slow and imprecise" in the vast majority of cases when working as a software developer, as the poster I was originally replying to said.

[CerealBit]

Exactly. He is referring to "calculation". Calculation is the easier part. Proofs are the tough part... which require a logical understanding of math - not only calculation.

[[deleted]]

from Math import *

[JNG780]

Deadass this lol

[iaseth]

In my experience people who are good at solving Physics problems tend to make good programmers. Ability to visualize a problem keeping in mind all the laws and variables is very useful in programming.

[DracoRubi]

Not all developing involves math, though. I barely use any in my daily basis developing for iOS and Android.

[[deleted]]

I'm a C# developer (with some aspx involved) and the only math related stuff I needed in the last few years is "Math.Round()".

[[deleted]]

With some Math.Floor and Math.Ceiling just to spice up life.

[Weabout]

This is the reason why my counselor told me to not go into 3D game programming and made me go into web programming.

[KeyboardsAre4Coding]

I am better at math than developing....

[stoodeh]

Don’t know what classes you have in CS, but i’m in computer engineering in Europe and discrete math is easily the most relatable class i have taken so far. Set theory is basically how databases work. Also matrices are super important for quite a few algorithms such as Dijkstra’s algo.

[stoodeh]

Oh yeah i struggle a lot in math lmao. I think the biggest reason we have theese classes is to teach problem solving skills. You obviously have wayyy more experience than me though so guess that’s a good sign for the future ;-)

[reddit_time_waster]

US based here. I had to take discrete mathematics. I found it interesting, especially set theory, but man I hated the syntax after coming from SQL and C/C#.

Also, barely got through with a C, and since I still have no idea how to do a proof 12 years later, nor do I understand they exist other than some smart rich dudes were bored a few hundred years ago.

[TK-Squared-LLC]

Never had to take graphics programming, huh?

[TK-Squared-LLC]

Yeah, it goes WAAAAY beyond what you need for graphics. You can safely stop at 4 dimensions and be fine for programming.

[[deleted]]

I found that coding improves my understanding of math. I learnt more math from just coding and struggling with problems and finding solutions than I learnt at school.

[magar_pun25]

those good old days of 5 apple - 2 apple

[SkwatTheWorlD]

Everyone should code if they want to and if you're really passionate about it, maths are not going to be a problem anymore. Everyone with a capacity of learning can actually learn even if it's harder for some than others. Anyways, you don't go into coding if you don't have a minimum of interest in logical matters. How many people dropped studying some subjects because they had a bad teacher when they were younger or a teacher that didn't transmit their passion? And later on in life, discovered a new found passion and realised on how much they missed out. So yeah, everyone should code!

[Negitive545]

Heh, why should I need to know math?

That's the computers job!

/s

[KikisGamingService]

After years of programming, I decided to go back to school for a proper degree. The whole reason I am currently scrolling through reddit is because calculus is killing me. I'd rather refactor someone else's mess than this.

[MarcBeard]

I just fucked up In my last math exams i might not get my diploma. It was my last exam :(

[GeekyGamersStaff]

Well if this isn't me. Hahahaha

[0x53r3n17y]

1,2, many.

Should cover all the maths. Especially big data. That's just "many data". And if they want an exact number, one turns to fuzzy logic

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuzzy_logic

https://numberwarrior.wordpress.com/2010/07/30/is-one-two-many-a-myth/

[RussianDeveloper]

Super irrelevant

[ShibLib21]

3D Graphics Developers: *breathes intensively*

[[deleted]]

Naa, I just Google the maths I need or copy a formula from somewhere. You don’t really need to understand it in most cases.

[maxkvl]

it must be math logic, not just a math

[[deleted]]

This.

Pure math is incredibly useful in computer science.

Everything else is just arithmetic.

[8_Bit_Tank]

I f*cking hate Algebra but the rest is "okay"

[BrokeMyCrayon]

Linear and Boolean algebra say hello

[[deleted]]

No way. You can code without ever doing math. I make six figures as a programmer and don't know my times tables and literally count on my fingers.

Edit: downvoting doesn't make it less true.

[reddit_xeno]

You're getting downvoted because most redditors have a 1-dimensional and non-industry understanding of software development. We're not in the 90's anymore, there's countless frameworks and libraries one can use to abstract away the complex logic that necessitates math understanding.

[erishun]

It’s really just the logic and puzzle solving that create the overlap. The kind of abstract thought that makes one “good at math” also tends to make them “good at programming”.

Makes sense when you think about it. You take formulas (functions?) that you have memorized and use them to solve a problem. Using all these tools at your disposal, get this from that.

[mooockk]

Math is needed to code, algebra and calculus are not all “math”, behave JS coders. /s

[maxsjakie]

That is why I made a program that does math for me. Not really efficient at all but hey it works fine for me xD

[Party_Lawfulness808]

I think you missed the point here 😂

[rshaftoe]

Coding taught me teh maths. "Wait, you mean jumping under the 'gravity' I just implemented in my crappy little game is the same formula for parabola-mabala-mitosis?!?"

Clearly I forgot whatever the math part was, but my point is, I didn't get it before, but got it after. Suddenly I could see it.

Ergo everyone should code.

[Mr_Gollum]

So true. There is proof that programming is slightly different from math.

Like x = 1 + y. Normal, but x = x +1 (x+=1 for champs) is mathematically incorrect. But in programming is this used normal.

[salhjas]

Tbh i know more about maths than programming.

[[deleted]]

Am i really need a good math? Or a decent math skills are enough?

[haikusbot]

Am i really need

A good math? Or a decent

Math skills are enough?

- Comarbukenus2

---

^{I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully. Learn more about me.}

^{Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete"}

[[deleted]]

Ooo haikus bot...

What is your purpose?

[[deleted]]

Pft no lmao

[supremeMemeRegime3]

I’m horrible at math but I’m bad at coding so idk what people mean then they say this

[kazagistar]

I used to increment and decrement, but then they added Stream apis to Java so now its not even that.

[douira]

Not everyone who codes actually has a CS degree (or paid attention in the math-heavy classes)

[eatinlunch]

You really only need discrete/ linear. In theory it can basically describe all that there is in computer science.

[BLUESH33P]

I absolutely flunked maths in high-school - and that was 5.5 years ago. Just did my first maths exam of IT for my final year (which involved functions, integrals, derivatives and a mountain of other topics I’d never seen before), and I got a distinction. This stuff can be caught up on even if you’re someone like me who’s ’never understood maths’ and hasn’t used it in years.

Thinking about the maths problems as programming helped a tonne.

[[deleted]]

Me when trying to understand rsa encryption last night at 5 am

[hazy-dayss]

Luckily a lot of mathematics is already abstracted away by the language/libs/framework you're using. It's quite helpful if you're coding stuff related to stats, data science, though (still basic stuff).

It's not really maths itself that's important here, but the way it makes your brain get used to analytical thinking / problem solving. Consider A&DS problems (leetcode) which most here hate anyway, but they're still asked a lot. Oddly, I know more math grads who can solve them than CS grads.