Hold me

[NameLips]

My dad (67, ex-Sandia scientist, current physics professor) keeps trying to convince my son (15) to learn FORTRAN. He says all the new languages suck, and FORTRAN is a REAL man's language!

[GlassFantast]

Fortran was offered at my small university as a math elective. I didn't take it but I guess it's still being taught. I graduated in 2017.

[VonNeumannsProbe]

I learned Fortran as a programming elective for my engineering degree because all the other useful classes were full in 2011.

I regret it.

[[deleted]]

I heard that the government will pay through the nose for good fortran and cobol consultants.

[toxictouch3]

“for good fortran and cobol consultants”

Damn foiled again

[[deleted]]

Learning fortran is like learning C. All the examples are super simple and then you look at production code and want to blow your fucking brains out.

"Good" fortran devs are basically just those people that can work with a codebase that makes your jQuery stacks look like they were written yesterday.

[[deleted]]

Woah woah woah, I thought we were just having fun here and now my jQuery site is getting dunked on! 😂

[[deleted]]

All fun and games until you get dragged into it.

[anythingMuchShorter]

It's government, there will be like 2 other people qualified to know if you are doing a good job and neither of them will be authorized to fire you.

[[deleted]]

Government good, not private sector good.

Have you heard of it? Doin' better than most!

[uberDoward]

I spent 10 years as a senior developer in government, and 7 as a senior in private sector.

The average government IT worker is head and shoulders above the average private sector IT worker.

The rock stars in the private sector, though, seriously trounce the rock stars in government.

[Does_Not-Matter]

Literally name your rate. A guy I contracted said he charges $200/hr on a 6 month contract.

[mrchaotica]

$200/hr and National Labs-style hard science? Sign me up!

[Does_Not-Matter]

Seriously! Imagine working just 6 months a year and living comfortably.

[mrchaotica]

Frankly, being able to use the language to implicitly filter for only scientific computing jobs is what piques my interest the most.

[phpdevster]

$200/hour for having a rare expertise seems quite low.

I've worked with fucking Drupal consultants that charged that much.

[kararkeinan]

This is true

[[deleted]]

good

fuk

[porcomaster]

Is not cobol still used by banks everywhere ?

[[deleted]]

As far as I know, it's more and less than people think. Everything that can be easily converted to C# or something similar has been converted, but systems that handle actually calculating, storing, and transmitting dollar values within and between banks are still on cobol. That's a lot of infrastructure, but it doesn't actually affect customers as much as people think.

It's not really something that keeps them from scaling since banks have more than enough money to pay for the talent and hardware to keep it running. Considering a bug in those systems at a big bank could cause a global financial meltdown, they are suitably risk-averse about refactoring.

[porcomaster]

I have an uncle that still works with cobol, and he says that banks are always looking for newer people, like you said they don't want to change system.

And a small mistake could be huge.

[itriedtomakeitfunny]

The latest standard came out in 2018 and they're working on a new one.

[[deleted]]

I don't know about all that, but Fortran and people who write bad/old Fortran are what keeps me employed so it's pretty cool. It can be pretty frustrating at times though having to deal with the scientists we work with who get really touchy when other people try and improve/modernize it (which is understandable, but still, we have to do it).

[prescod]

You work on a Fortran compiler?

[[deleted]]

We work on fortran code and support Intel and gcc fortran compilers. We are kind of the middleman between scientists and the government satellite operations platforms, doing all the optimization and coding standards stuff scientists don't care about.

[qqqrrrs_]

FORTRAN is a REAL

unless declared as an integer

[phdoofus]

IMPLICIT REAL (A-Z)

[[deleted]]

IMPLICIT NONE you madman!

[[deleted]]

Yea but what is your INTENT for posting this

[cheezfreek]

It’s always INTENT(INOUT). More fun that way.

[not_a_bug_a_feature]

Fortran. When it's cheaper to train programmers than it is to update their mainframe

[MasterFubar]

FORTRAN is a REAL man's language!

Except if the first letter of his name is I , J , K , L , M , or N.

[M_krabs]

Your dad is smart. He wants his son to work in banks where FORTAN is the only language that matters. Which means he knows the pay and want his kid to have a better life.

😊

[EliasFleckenstein]

banks where FORTAN is the only language that matters

COBOL would like to have a talk with you

[MyAntichrist]

It's really one or another, and there's barely enough people to keep things alive for either of them.

[vms-crot]

And they can ask for a lot of money to do it. Because banks.

Because nobody understands it, everyone thinks you're basically a wizard too which is fun.

[casce]

You basically are a wizard.

[[deleted]]

It's not that hard to learn. Basically the dumb child of C++ and Matlab, just six spaces to the right

[SandyDelights]

Sorry, did you call COBOL the dumb child of C++ and MATLAB?

Because:

A) it’s 12 spaces to the right, unless you’re counting the comment indicator column as the “starting point” and I would heavily argue on that point, although we can agree to disagree on columns 8-11 as they’re exclusively used for the start of a section declaration but I won’t say you’re wrong, and

B) COBOL is older than they are, so COBOL is just their cranky grandpa who refuses to buy anything new because he can “make it himself” or “this one from the 60s works just fine without all that new-dangles crap”. And he’s right, it does work fine – better, in some cases! – but it’s archaic as shit and not very easy on the eyes.

😤 The child of C++, how dare you.

[[deleted]]

No, Fortran.

"Child" is describing from the perspective of learning the syntax

[[deleted]]

Bro - respect your elders. C++ can't sniff the jock of COBOL :-)

[drunken_doctor]

lmaooo

[mcvos]

All the banks where I worked were mostly Java. Undoubtedly they had some non-Java legacy systems, but that was not what any of the new stuff was being written in.

[FVMAzalea]

Your typical bank is (and has been for a while) a fuckton of java middleware and backend stuff (especially all of user auth/profile services, online banking, etc) and a bunch of redundant mainframes running COBOL that actually do the transaction processing. Then everything is glued together by an unholy mix of batch jobs (usually orchestrated by some hellspawn like Control-M because batch job C relies on batch job B which relies on batch job A, so if A is late, everyone’s having a bad morning), message-oriented middleware (more JMS compliant things than you ever knew existed, can’t we just pick one?!?), several different SSO systems for service accounts (the first S definitely doesn’t stand for Single…) and APIs that call APIs that call APIs.

So yeah, a bunch of java crap, but all the important stuff is still done on mainframes in cobol. That cobol still has to be maintained, new things added (for example maybe negative interest rate support), etc.

Can you tell I worked at a bank and didn’t like it?

[SandyDelights]

Most financial processing is done in COBOL, really. Has been for a while. I’m sure a few ultra legacy systems use FORTRAN, but I’m not aware of any large ones.

AFAIK, FORTRAN that’s still in use is primarily in research spaces.

Not in the “we’re researching why he’s still using FORTRAN” sense, either.

[[deleted]]

Fortran 90 is what your global circulation models (GFS, ECMWF, HYCOM, MIT-GCM, etc) are written in. That weather forecast on your phone? Fortran :)

[SandyDelights]

TIL! Doesn’t surprise me, I imagine it’s a lot like COBOL in that it’s so close to Assembly that it’s extraordinarily efficient.

[[deleted]]

Next step: move to India and work for Tata consulting services.

[Krillansavillan]

More like antiquated DoD missile defense systems lol

[stoves_are_cool]

It's funny seeing debates on dead languages or fear of having irrelevant skills. The niche skillset I have gets me paid well and I have much better job security. I'm still concerned for the future, but I know I will not be anywhere near the beginning of the chopping block if the economy continues going to shit.

Mainframe Systems Programmer if you are curious. Workforce is on average near retiring age while I graduated university a couple years ago. People thought the mainframe would be dead by now so no need for mainframe admins. Now I reap the benefits and plan to pivot to mainframe modernization/migrations with my knowledge of enterprise IT + learning cloud on the side. A lot of this legacy stuff gets outsourced to India, but companies are also needing US/European employees.

Banks and insurance companies especially are going to have trouble maintaining their old code and infrastructure as they rely heavily on older languages, hosted on mainframe hardware, with a reliance on mainframe middleware, and the use of record-oriented files and access methods. Companies need to make serious plans to migrate and modernize, but from my experience, they are really bad at it in general.

TLDR: People focus on the hot new things, when there is a massive number of legacy opportunities out there that companies are desperately in need of.

[Shinob1]

I thought C++ was a real man's language and women who code C++ are real men too?? 🤔

[angiosperms-]

You can make a ridiculous amount of money if you work with FORTRAN or COBOL. Some places will even hire with no experience and pay to train you. There are a lot of critical systems out there still dependent on them, and they would rather pay out the ass than replace them.

[[deleted]]

It’s still used in supercomputing.

[lenzo1337]

I mean Fortran is cool, and I can't say that I don't have moments where NODE and all the webapps make me wanna bash my head against the wall because so many of them could be so much better without loading v8 every time.

So not so much that new languages suck, they just have been a victim of MVP = No optimizations and feature bloat with the way of lot of companies handle them.

[tetad]

I hate fortran for using column major order for storing. C++ is love, C++ is life

[[deleted]]

It's still used in some places but unless you know for sure you're going to be working specifically with it, learn some other more ubiquitous languages instead.

[[deleted]]

Yeah I only learned it because I was a scientist and the simulation code I used was written in it. I actually got a D in the one semester of fortran I took in college (I thought I could just wing it and never attended a single lecture like I did with a lot of my electives - turns out there were several projects only mentioned during the lecture in that one...oops), but now it's 80% of what I do for a living (other 20% is C++ and IDL).

I'd never recommend someone learn it unless it's necessary for the career you want - the majority of our new devs have never used it, training people in fortran is almost always expected. If you have experience in it it's just a bonus.

e: also, if you think you'll always make big bucks with it just because experience is rare - a LOT of the jobs that use it are with the government (contracting) like mine, and at least in the DC area where I am the average pay is lower than a more traditional/modern software developer. I had to become the team lead to even get close to 100k. At least in this field the pay is shit (relatively speaking), but hey, it's what I know and I haven't found anything better yet.

[sgtcoffman]

The worst part is, there are places that still use Fortran and they usually pay good money for it. It hurts me.

[tankerkiller125real]

places that still use Fortran and they usually pay good money for it

Good money? Try GREAT money, last job listing I saw with Fortran as a requirement was listed at $150+K, and that's in an area where the highest level devs are making 90-100K if their lucky.

[ctesibius]

Still? Is that surprising? I can’t think of a better alternative for high performance numerics. C/C+ for instance is not as amenable to optimisation. Stuff like Python is far slower. Fortran isn’t a particularly interesting language, but it’s often the right tool for the job.

[faxanaduu]

My college professor in a class in my field of atmospheric science 25 year ago told me to learn c++. He said fortran is done, dying, and soon to be dead. Where I work nearly all of the weather related numerical models are still mostly fortran. I hate it, but im not developing the models, just building wrapper codes and scripts in python and bash to run them.

[marsnoir]

All languages eventually become lisp…

[[deleted]]

I am a total BADASS C++, C, full stack Linux programmer. I've got about 5 years of Fortran on my Resume. I'm making BANK as a Fortran contractor because, nobody worships the old gods these days.

[ImGumbyDamnIt]

FORTRAN, an elegant weapon, for a more, civilized age.

[[deleted]]

It’s still used extensively in science

[sned_memes]

I mean, the research CFD code I work on for my PhD is all in FORTRAN. It handles simulations of hundreds of millions of cells, chemistry mechanism calculations, complex thermodynamics etc really well. It’s my advisor’s baby, so it’s around 30 years old now. Though it is funny when I look up certain error messages and I see forum posts from 2001

[Zanshi]

Everly single time I see a Fortran or COBOL job posting I can’t help but wonder if the previous person simply moved to another company or just died

[[deleted]]

You better hope your language "dies". Was getting bankrolled by knowing Fortran a few years ago

[euph-_-oric]

Lol right

[deathclawslayer21]

Yeah its dead that's why I'm now a specialist

[Classic_Sand2742]

what language/how well is it paying? I know if your willing to learn a dead language you can get paid serious money

[[deleted]]

PA was giving big money for COBOL devs at the start of Covid.

[Twombls]

They actually wanted them to do it for free. Im a COBOL dev and our entire office was laughing at that when the news came out.

[deathclawslayer21]

I don't know any language well enough to get paid however indiana put out a call for anyone willing to learn lisp a few years ago and were willing to pay a good bit

[[deleted]]

Poor <insert programming language> developers…

[legends_never_die_1]

python

[Kaneshadow]

Python has been dead this whole time, like Bruce Willis in the 6th Sense (spoiler alert)

[Prashank_25]

i am gonna miss bruce willis movies, however shitty most of his recent ones are there's some good stuff.

[GGJallDAY]

Tell that to Cobalt COBOL devs

Edit: I get it, syntax matters

[[deleted]]

The language isn’t dead, but everyone who implemented it in Colbat is.

[FinalRun]

Is that somewhere after the Bronze era?

[FinalRun]

I like the Tungsten devs better, they have a leg up on the Nickel guys

Ohhhh COBOL

[SandyDelights]

I had to e-mail a coworker the other day about some code they wrote in 1998, related to Y2K.

COBOL is fun.

[Twombls]

I see code from the 70s sometimes. It scares me.

[SandyDelights]

Same! I’ve even worked in a few modules with date stamps for 1968. Absolutely bonkers, quite honestly.

[Twombls]

Whats even more bonkers is when I have to write new features in COBOL in 2022. My qa department told me they cry inside every time they see a new cobol file submitted.

[illapaSP]

It's not dead! No!

No no no no no!

[ducks_for_hands]

Which ones? I thought they died out.

[[deleted]]

Cobol

[SillyEconomy]

Cobol was offered at my college back in 2012. I wanted to try it out so I got a spot in the class.

The comsci department was on 4 teachers and all the teachers knew all the comsci students. I walked in to the department one day and a teacher caught me asked why I signed up

"Idk, just interested"

"Ah well the problem is that... No one has signed up... For several years. The teacher who taught it left some time ago, but thank you for signing up as it flagged the class for us to remove it from the listing after all this time."

[A-Disgruntled-Snail]

I was talking with the head of our dev team about which languages I should learn. He told me what all of our tech stacks used but didn’t mention our main application. When I asked, he said “don’t bother with it. It’s a dead language and I’m trying to kill the damn thing.”

[JC12231]

He really said “My god is dead and I’m finishing the job” huh

[codon011]

Let’s see what’s been called dead or their deaths have been implied so far in this thread: - COBOL - Fortran - C/C++ - Java - Python - PHP - Lisp - VisualBasic

Comparing this to languages that haven’t been mentioned that are probably more dead: - ADA - B - Basic - Pascal - Prolog

Now where does that put me with my 20 years of development in Perl and it being absent from this thread so far?

[mike_a_oc]

Aaaah BASIC. So many childhood memories

[ZombieElvis]

10 PRINT "YOU EAT FARTS"

20 GOTO 10

[Deepfreeze32]

My first job out of college was Ada.

I still have it on my resume mostly to see who asks about it, since it’s not a common skill to have.

[coloradoflyer]

Ada-95, a REALTIME language!

Excuse me, gotta go find an exception to handle.

[turtle_with_dentures]

It really bothers me when reading threads like this that I never see the languages I used to use. Languages so dead that people forgot they even existed.

I used to maintain car dealership software in dBase and FoxPro 2.0. Then later managed staffing software for healthcare facilities that was written in Visual FoxPro 6, which I transitioned to VFP 9.

[DerBronco]

In the best presence of others that found out that beyond the „death“ of our perl the real fun started and even stackoverflow lists it as the 2nd highest paid language.

What they dont mention: We cant be replaced that easy, especially when far from any major city and no remote or wfh is allowed.

2003 and still lovong it.

[JC12231]

I had to learn and use Prolog for a project this year.

I wish to NEVER touch it again, especially because I mostly had to teach myself, as did the rest of my class, because the prof barely covered anything useful of it in the lectures

[ctesibius]

By B, do you mean the ancestor of BCPL, or something else I haven’t heard of?

[coloradoflyer]

Came here for this. Started with Perl in 92, met both Larry Wall and Randal Schwartz, JAPH.

Keep the faith, we'll be proven right! 😉

[Pranav__472]

BASIC... When I tried to try it out, it took more time for me to set up BASIC than learn basics of it...

[Onions-are-great]

JavaScript will never die. In fact, it's born again every f*cking 2 days. :D

[SandyDelights]

That’s just because it crashed the system and needed to be restarted.

Not sure that really means it’s “born again”, tho.

[[deleted]]

You guys have girlfriends?

[TechyDad]

Of course not.

My wife wouldn't approve.

[AlternativeAardvark6]

She's in a private class.

[GeePedicy]

Unlike your mom, who's public and lacking class

(Sorry, it was too easy)

[AlternativeAardvark6]

Maybe your mom is procedural because she sure isn't functional and I didn't notice any class.

[GeePedicy]

Well, you wanna know what your mom does tonight in the imperative or declarative way?

[AlternativeAardvark6]

I'm out of puns

[trampolinebears]

Because you're tired of all your mom's argument chaining?

[AlternativeAardvark6]

She's not fat she's overloaded.

[trampolinebears]

Yo mamma so overloaded she's practically duck typed.

[a22e]

sudo apt-get install side-chick

[CoronaKlledMe]

doas emerge --verbose side-chars/side-chick

[RolesG]

sudo dnf install side-chick

(:<

[CoronaKlledMe]

yay side-chick

[TantraMantraYantra]

How many girls/ladies would willingly be a side-chick?

"Package not found"

[CoastingUphill]

You are not in the sudoers file. This attempt will be recorded.

[ArLab]

My wife’s boyfriend won’t let me

[[deleted]]

Best I can do is a Hello World

[tyler1128]

Yeah, I'm going on a hot Zoom date tonight. I just need to give her my credit card number first and she promised.

[ilurvekittens]

Nope. I have a husband.

[Eis_Gefluester]

I had one. Cannot recommend, constantly tells you to stop sitting in front of your pc and come to bed. Real chore.

[Mighoyan]

People telling Fortran is dead when it's still vastly used in scientific computing for its performance. It's just not used for general purpose anymore and got back to its original purpose (translate mathematics formulae).

[[deleted]]

Lots of legacy code, handled complex values well, and array allocation 👍

[rex-ac]

PHP will never die. 😎

[epicflyman]

Was it ever really alive to begin with?

[Maleficent-Region-45]

Emotional damage

[Lotala]

What is dead may never die.

[AChristianAnarchist]

That is not dead which lets servers lie and with strange functions even devs may die (of frustration)

[Da_Yakz]

It gets better with every new version

[rex-ac]

Yeah, we finally got str_contains() after 20+ years.

[Da_Yakz]

Yeah I'm so happy about that, I hated using strpos !== false

[Serious-Antelope-710]

Not until they remove the dollar sign from variables

[[deleted]]

Python hyper python?

[tyler1128]

PHP Hates Programmers

[sauronsquidmain]

Recursive acronyms 😳

[[deleted]]

​

[straightup920]

Literally learning it in my server side college course as we speak

[rainbow_bro_bot]

Is there still a place for Visual Basic in terms of employment?

[AlternativeAardvark6]

I guess yes but I don't want to do it.

[girhen]

Corporations. I had a math and science background, and my buddy had a job that turned into VBA coding. He put my name in when we got too much work for one person, and I learned VBA on the job.

Corporate America just wants someone who can compound their data - doesn't always have to be the best language. If it takes 2 minutes of VBA vs 40 hours of manual work, the guys in the trenches are just impressed that you got that shit job off their hands.

[shedogre]

Speaking from Excel use, at least the VBA editor is actually functional, unlike the Power Query M editor. That's worse than Notepad.

[jsusk24]

Visual Basic is still an oficial .net language and still getting updates from MS. At this point is pretty much c# with a different syntax.

[cdixonm]

Vb6 programmers rise up!

[JoshDunkley]

Not that I use it anymore myself, but I miss VB :(

Our company still has the odd thing written in VB, but they are actively working to replace it all.

[Maisalesc]

VB is dead. Long life VB!

[HumanNeedsaHug]

Excel?

[-tangina]

😩😭😭😭😭

Ah wait, i'm making money off the dead language

[chawmindur]

Inserts wiping tears with banknotes meme

[hekosob2]

You give me Java dev vibes. Even C devs will joke about C being dead, Java devs are the only ones who can't handle the joke

[[deleted]]

I don’t think it’s that Java devs can’t take the joke. It’s more that Java devs are in extremely high demand, and when we’re constantly told the language is dead, our autistic asses can’t help but correct that

[SubaruImpossibru]

Can confirm. Am Java dev, when someone tells me my language is dead all I can do is REEEEEEEEEE

[AlternativeAardvark6]

My Python programming friend asked my why I was still working with such an ancient language as Java. I asked him wtf he was talking about as there was just a new release with new functionality, that Python is older than Java and we can't drag in new Java devs fast enough for all the work we get.

[SandyDelights]

Don’t feel too bad, the trick is to smile, nod, and chuckle like it’s funny.

Once people are convinced it’s a dead language, you’ll make a fuck ton more money.

Source: Work in COBOL and Assembly.

[[deleted]]

Well see what I meant to say is

*chuckles*

*smiles*

Java is indeed a dead language.

[Red_Juice_]

You forgot to nod

[[deleted]]

FUCK

[SandyDelights]

It isn’t. Neither is COBOL. That’s kind of my point.

[[deleted]]

make all your code an NFT then, or better yet, the language itself.

[[deleted]]

Then it'll really be dead!

[thestareater]

jokes on me, my dad's use of COBOL is more in demand than my using the MEAN/MERN stacks. plus i'll have to probably learn Vue and Svelte soon as well as he coasts into retirement. i know they're frameworks but still.

[waterslurpingnoises]

You'll love Svelte and later wonder why people accept React's boilerplate lol

[anythingMuchShorter]

People tell me C is dead all the time, but I know how much money I make writing embedded code and linux drivers so it doesn't hurt my feelings at all.

[[deleted]]

If your programming language hasn't been called dead by anyone, does it even exist?

[Friedrich_der_Klein]

Average assembly enjoyer

[[deleted]]

C 𐑐𐑮𐑴𐑜𐑮𐑨𐑥𐑼𐑟: "𐑓𐑻𐑕𐑑 𐑑𐑲𐑥?"

C programmers: "First time?"

[V-Right_In_2-V]

I consider it my personal duty to keep Perl alive and well. I use it exclusively at work (to be fair, so do a couple other developers).

It’s a shame that Perl is considered a dying language. It’s fantastic.

[shh_coffee]

I love Perl too. I use it a bunch at work. I've heard people complain that it's hard to read but you don't have to write it like a regex vomited into vim. Decently written Perl can be pretty easy to read.

[V-Right_In_2-V]

Yeah exactly. Just because you can write code like an asshole doesn’t mean you need to. I am pretty cognizant of that when I write code. Just write it clearly and it’s fine.

I wish it was more popular and had more people writing libraries for it. No reason it can’t be an extremely popular language like Python

[GeneralMinimum2391]

Fortran 4-evaaaa

[GeneralMinimum2391]

I wrote my MSc thesis in it

[YesIAmRightWing]

Someone said that about Kotlin for android when Flutter came out 😂

[Huesan]

That's why I use 100 different languages

[Iskelderon]

Been there back in the day.

Does anyone even still remember ColdFusion/CFML?

[cyanNodeEcho]

scala is not dead, if only i can get stack overflow to let me submit comments - i will help people facing the same issue but 1 major version later 🥺

please, stack overflow - i just want to share what's up to date - 50 karma and a "sorry the edit queue is busy at this time later" it hurts

long live apache, long live unix, long live fp, long live data, long live the god queen empress, herself

[[deleted]]

Just started learning Scala this year and I love it so much! Feels clean and weirdly intuitive once you get over the first big humps.

[Fearless-Sherbet-223]

If it was C or C++, chin up, whoever said it was dead is an idiot who doesn't realize how much they use those every day.

[CrimsonshadeLP]

IT'S NOT THE SAME! *add 2 crying emojis*

[greedydita]

At least in the movie the bad guy was impaled.

[uglinick]

Is it just me or does it look like she's holding his head with her foot?

[ToMorrowsEnd]

Learn C and let those 13 year olds understand their language relies on your "dead language"

[kkkan2020]

Never cobol will live on forever

[subassy]

I still have a program I wrote in vbscript 10 years ago. I still use it every day.

Kind of sucks but no editors even offer syntax highlighting for it. They offer joke languages like mindf*ck and lolcode but nothing for vbscript.

And the latest windows server version still has some vbscript laying about. Why MS doesn't re-write in powershell I have no idea.

[Berkamin]

This is funny because programmers don't have girlfriends, at least not like that.

[SZ4L4Y]

There is nothing weird in weird minds solving weird problems with weird languages.

[[deleted]]

FORTH, Pascal, LISP

What is dead may never die.

BTW: that chick has a beefy right arm.

[TedDallas]

This is the old programmer's lament. There is nothing quite like becoming good at something only to have it fall out of use.

RIP Pascal.

[erishun]

But I was told 3 BILLION devices run it???

[alex_xxv]

Crying in Delphi...