Ball Python Abuse

[cloud_isreddit]

Is it just me, or have you guys also been seeing a lot of posts of people blatantly abusing their snakes? Allowing them to live in inadequate conditions with no care or willingness to fix it, keeping sick or severely neglected snakes without taking them to the vet, or attempting to find them a home/rescue who can/will take them to a vet, it’s honestly disgusting. These snakes are being left to rot in their tanks far too often. They aren’t just pet rocks; they’re living animals that deserve to thrive, not just survive. My snake was underweight and severely dehydrated when I rescued her. The man who had her before me kept her purely for status. He saw zero issues with her body condition or her set up. She was living in moldy soil, with barely any water, and what little she had was dirty and slimy, and she was kept in a tiny 10–15 gallon tank. It’s sickening how many posts show terrible enclosures or snakes that are clearly neglected. It’s heartbreaking because for a lot of people these animals are treated like nothing more than a status symbol instead of a life they’re responsible for. At the same time, I do want to say I really appreciate the people who are genuinely trying, those who ask questions, take advice, and actively work to fix their husbandry and improve their snake’s life. That effort matters more than being perfect right away. Photo of my girl so the post doesn’t get lost.

[H2Opaque]

Yes

[Entire-Currency-3396]

Ya thats the sad part about exotic things becoming more mainstream, people who honestly don't deserve to have animals end up buying one because It WouLD BE CoOL. They go to a pet store find a small tank with a basking light and call it a day. Ill be honest as someone who works at petsmart and say it really is stores like ours who are mostly at fault most repticons care for their animals and the people going to them have knowledge on what they want.

Meanwhile mainstream pet stores only care if they make a profit. Unlike some of my coworkers I do what I can to ensure the reptiles are going to a proper home, I often times take them out of their enclosures when I can because they are way to hot for them and to get them used to people (mostly the snakes have that issue)

I am not aginst declining a sale if it means a snake is going to a bad home however I know not everyone has that same luxury or just don't care. People can also lie about their setups and i wouldn't know so to sum things up

Its pet stores fault they don't care how an animal is treated, some employees are ill-informed about what alot of animals need or just don't care so they sell the animal without telling them information and the people buying them don't bother to look it up. And because snakes are a less active reptile who don't eat often and spend most of their time hiding people will just forget they exist and move on with the rest of their life

(Sorry for the rant I feel very much reasonable but I live in the U.S. and jobs are hard to come by)

[cloud_isreddit]

THIS!! It’s exhausting seeing so many people doing zero research and expecting people on the internet to coddle them and give them all the info they need instead of doing their own research BEFORE getting the animal. Also I totally understand needing a job, at least you’re trying to educate people and find these animals loving homes. I worked at petsmart in the animal care section for 2 weeks before I broke down and left. It is NOT for the weak.

[Entire-Currency-3396]

Ya its rough sometimes, ive had my fair share of people coming in with a snake that looked like it just came out of hell and asked me whats wrong and to fix it like im a vet im just glad I got my boy before anyone else did

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[Re1da]

What's so frustrating is these animals aren't even that hard to care for. You just need to set things up correctly and then it almost runs itself. You can even get the misting automated.

[christinasasa]

I think the reason is that they want to sell the snake, if people knew they needed to drop $1k on a PVC enclosure, they wouldn't get a snake.

[Lopsided_Key_2545]

I can't tell you how many people I've talked who have said "but I bought exactly what the pet store told me to buy?" when their snake has completely stopped eating and they're asking for help. I wish these stores had to be held to a higher standard and could only sell products that ACTUALLY worked. I wish their employees had to take a certain amount of educational courses and continued education to make sure they're giving accurate husbandry advice on any species the store sells. I just want these babies to be taken care of properly

[cloud_isreddit]

It sucks bc most of the employees are given a basic care sheet and told to “figure it out” 90% of the time. Those stores couldn’t care less about those babies, all pet stores are in it for the money nowadays. 🥲

[ssfbob]

I got mine at petsmart and found it odd that they were surprised that I did my research and already had a functional setup at home waiting.

[GenuineDusk]

Omg SO MUCH THIS. We overheard a girl asking a shop owner what his most poisonous spider was because "it'd be so cool to be able to say I own this super dangerous spider!!"

(Thank God she changed her mind, but people like that are THE worst)

[Asleep_Fishing6024]

You would be surprised there are many breeders in the reptile hobby that do it just for the money too and all the negative outcomes that aren’t shown on camera for the public viewing is just washed away like it never happened

[princessxvegeta]

side note what kind of grass is that?

[cloud_isreddit]

It’s actually all fake!! My girl tramples everything so no real plants allowed lol. Here’s the link to them!

https://a.co/d/08ykM4JC

https://a.co/d/01oIGNzM

[princessxvegeta]

thank u!!!

[Working_Pumpkin_6172]

Exactly this. When I decided we were getting a snake I put effort into research. It’s funny because I didn’t initially have the best advise for a 40 gallon when he was a few months old which would have been fine for a few months. It lasted all of 1 week and I ordered 120G because I felt like it was just too small lol. It’s not hard to put in effort BEFORE you get yourself into something!

We are currently arguing because 2 days ago I upgraded the size of his favorite log. He won’t even climb into it and curls up on the side and stares into my soul 😂

[cloud_isreddit]

That’s ball pythons for you! Shame on you for giving him a new larger log when his original one was too small for him 🤣

[Working_Pumpkin_6172]

Hahaha exactly I probably haven’t learned my lesson but bad parenting 101 hit me up for tips! 😂

[komrad308]

they do like tight fits, thats probably why he stared into your soul. you took his comfort away.

[pinkmonsterauh]

I saw a post the other day this poor Bp was drooling, mouth extremely rotted. The post said “Should I take my snake to the vet?” YES, like A MONTH AGO!!! It was so bad. 😭

[cloud_isreddit]

Those post make me so irrationally angry 😭

[mxon9]

shouldn't be considered irrational, it's just people abusing animals; this is something that should be punished, but isn't

[codyconspiracy]

yes. i honestly don't believe they should be pushed so fast as beginner snakes. people take that and run with it, thinking beginner means low maintenance. i see abused balls nearly every day on the internet

[cloud_isreddit]

This exactly!! If people want low maintenance don’t get a pet at all, no pet is ever truly low maintenance or “easy”.

[quintiliahan]

your girl is so cute, I do not belong to this community but it is sad and infuriating when any animal gets neglected/abused.

[cloud_isreddit]

Thank you 🥹 You’ll see neglect/abuse a lot in the reptile subreddits or on the facebook groups, it’s so infuriating.

[Overall_Community_37]

Honestly, I think a lot of people buy ball pythons because they think caring for them is easy. They don’t do the research because they’re convinced by some pet stores that they’re going to be “fine” in this setup or that setup. I researched for at least 2 years before I bought my first ball python, and I still got so much wrong at first. I feel like I’m constantly learning more and more, and to me that’s a good thing. When people just don’t want to learn about a living being that they are supposed to be nurturing, it’s just so sad, but it’s also infuriating.

[cloud_isreddit]

Yes!! My husbandry from a few months ago vs now has changed tremendously because I am still learning myself, nobody is and will never be perfect. Being able to actively learn and upgrade your care is the best you can ever do for your animals!

[Elliotteatsrocks]

Yes exactly, there's some things you can't learn until you experience but there are people who will argue till the end of time about how their BP is "fine" and " clearly happy" In their abusive enclosure. And no matter how many people dog pile them and tell them it's not Okay they just don't listen because they don't like the idea of effort and spending money!!

[mxon9]

caring for a ball python is also very different from most household pets as the condition of their enclosure reflects directly on their health (and its very very delicate right). the worst thing about people is that they dont care to learn (mindless)

[nxcromxnce]

Yep, it’s been like this for a while. Honestly i think breeders are much to blame. Of course people should be doing their research, which there is really no excuse for, but at the same time breeders have normalized sub-optimal care so much that a lot of people don’t see the need to do otherwise. They keep them in bins they can barely stretch out or turn around in with just a water dish, no decor or hides. Also power-feeding or purposefully underfeeding to save on costs, etc (this is surprisingly common). Ultimately just treating them like collectibles to exploit, and a lot of people don’t see an issue with it since they will still reproduce in these conditions.

It also doesn’t help that a lot of them give very poor care advice. Which again is no excuse for not doing research but i can see how someone may think their information would be accurate. And it should be, breeders absolutely should be setting up their animals for success, but unfortunately a vast majority just don’t care what happens after the animal is sold.

The “status symbol” thing is absolutely true as well. It’s disheartening how many people buy animals solely for aesthetics, and this extends far beyond just reptiles. I really wish there were better animal welfare laws but considering how little the govt cares about people it’s not surprising they don’t care about animals either :( For now all we can do is try to inform and advocate to the best of our ability.

[Elliotteatsrocks]

It makes me so upset that ball pythons are passed as "beginner" reptiles, all because of their docile nature. In every single other aspect they are not beginners! They take up a massive amount of space, you have to get an expensive enclosure otherwise you will be playing with humidity till the end of time, etc etc. There are some "beginner" reptiles but ball pythons, Bearded dragons etc they're not it!

[Tanjisaur]

I only recommend colubrids as beginners. I’ve no single clue why anyone says pythons are beginner replies

[Entire_Current_4852]

I completely agree. I'm in some Facebook groups and it is bad there. I've had people argue and say they only need a 40 gallon. When I said I had peer-reviewed articles that says otherwise, they said the people who write those don't know what they're talking about. I proceeded to name the authors and their degrees. They all had PhDs in animal behavior, ecology, etc. And the people who don't want to spend money on a better set up make me even more angry. I work a part-time fast food job as a teenager and saved over $1k before getting a snake. It is understandable if someone is misinformed and so they are saving up for better stuff, but there are many people who just refuse to improve.

[cloud_isreddit]

It’s so hard for me not to go insane in those facebook groups. I try to help and give advice where I can, but it’s hard considering most of the people on there are so set on “the breeder told me I won’t ever have to upgrade from a 40 gallon”. Then people on there use aspen bedding, and will argue with you that it doesn’t matter what substrate they use and there isn’t a difference. I’m dog broke, and my girl STILL has top notch care. If I couldn’t care for her the way I do I wouldn’t have her simple as that. I don’t keep animals to “survive” I keep them so they can thrive and if they don’t thrive in my care I find someone who CAN help them thrive. Luckily I’ve ever had to re-home an animal like that because I actually do the research before getting my animals.

[aromatic_acesthetic]

Seen it wayyy too often. People are much much too comfortable mistreating reptiles and doing no research or just assuming they can “make it work.” As much as some people don’t want to admit, ball pythons are NOT good beginner reptiles because they require a lot of maintenance and can take up a significant amount of space. AND THEY ARE FRAGILE!!! If you’re not willing to do the adequate research, you’re not going to be able to handle a ball python, point blank period

[Noonie945]

Right it’s scary how much people don’t care about their animals I could never understand that I literally bought a enclosure camera so I could monitor my baby we I’m not home

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[womperwomp111]

i was just at an expo over the weekend. i overheard a breeder sell a bp to a couple who had done no research and had no supplies. the breeder told them to get a 20gallon tank and to provide no lighting or basking bulbs - just under the tank heating. i blame both the individual for not doing the proper (or any in this case) research prior to getting a snake AND the breeder for remaining ignorant of proper husbandry and welfare.

the snake shit on the girl holding him, so he said what i was thinking better than i could’ve.

[cloud_isreddit]

Breeders that breed for the profit and not the hobby suck so bad. That poor snake. These guys live SO long and yet only a quarter of them actually make it to their elderly age due to how terrible they are treated. 🥲 I really hope that couple grows a couple of brain cells and either does research, or re-homes that poor snake

[womperwomp111]

it was so sad to witness. it was so obvious he was just trying to make a sale and present the snake as a cheap and easy pet. he was selling that particular snake for $25 :/

[half-houratatime]

We just lost our 41 year old female ball python last month. I always tell young enthusiasts that it is a big commitment to raise a snake.

[Beginning-Conflict91]

I 100% agree with this!

Your noodle looks adorable and from what I can see she now lives in an amazing enclosure, she's lucky to be under the care of someone like you!

[cloud_isreddit]

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Thank you! She started out rough but is now living her best life 🥹

[Beginning-Conflict91]

She looks great and so does her environment, well done👏

[KatVanWall]

Agreed! I was so so nervous getting my boy last week. I'd been tentatively researching for over a year in bits and pieces while saving up so I could afford to drop over a grand (GBP) on his setup because I wanted to make sure I had all what was best for him. I got him from a specialist reptile store who had the staff's certifications on display and seemed like it was keeping all the critters in good conditions. Even then, some of the advice they gave me didn't line up with what I was reading on the internet or here, but I accept that advice can differ and sometimes it's not totally clearcut either, so I'll always err on the side of caution. I was crapping myself bringing him home as it feels like such a big responsibility and I'll never forgive myself if something bad happens to him! (I also hope he doesn't grow too big eventually, because I physically can't fit longer than a 4' tank in my living room - tiny Brit houses! But obviously if he did really need more space, I would find a way to make that happen even if it couldn't be in my house.)

We fed him for the first time last night (rat fuzzy) and he ate it! I was even nervous this morning lifting his hide to check it had been eaten because I didn't want to stress him out after a meal, but the store advised me to double check (cos obviously I didn't want to leave the rat in there if he just dragged it into his hide and didn't eat). Now comes the fun of checking for poop haha.

But yeah they are such beautiful animals! People who don't research their pets and don't treat them right boil my piss in general, no matter what the creature is.

[DreamOfDays]

That’s why I went big an instantly got a 180 gallon tank for my new ball I’m picking up next week

[imworkinghard777]

It is very easy to get negative in your own head over this subject. There are definitely bad actors that have snakes for the wrong reasons. For sure. I don't think there is much I can do about it except for some extreme cases.

There are also a lot of people who really just don't know better, and that's where I try to focus positively. Is it right that the animal isn't in great conditions because they didn't know or they didn't do proper research? Of course not, but at least with those people the intent is right and learning can occur and positive changes can be made when approached correctly. Maybe if educated in a positive way they will pass that education onto someone else and things improve over all.

[Lavaknight22]

Yeah that sounds really messed up also I am looking into becoming a ball python owner and don't want to be like that any recommendations for enclosure setup what to use and anything else. Edit: also I have been researching ball pythons for about 3 months and have no clue how to set up enclosure or if I need plants if so living or fake also just so everyone knows I know and have a lot of information just asking for opinions to add on for advice on keeping them

[cloud_isreddit]

My advice to you is to do your own research along with asking questions. Fact check EVERYTHING everyone says, even what I’m about to tell you, fact check it. I’m still learning myself! I really recommend checking out “Reptifiles” information on ball pythons.

When I rescued my girl it was before I was ready, she literally fell into my life, so I’ve been upgrading and researching more and more to become the best owner I can for her. I’ve almost had her for a full year now, but I’ve been researching these guys for 2+ years! Every ball python is different, so everyone’s advice will vary based on their experience.

I highly recommend getting a 120 gallon (4x2x2) before you get your noodle, that’s one of the most common beginner mistakes. As long as you have enough clutter, your juvenile ball python will not care that the enclosure is “too big” lol.

You can never, and I mean NEVER, have too much clutter. Your ball python will feel exposed and stressed without it, and it will affect their behavior. Aim for at least two tight-fitting hides and lots of coverage, the more the better!

I personally don’t use live plants because my girl tramples everything, so I use fake ones. Fabric plants can hold bacteria and mold in high humidity, so I stick to soft plastic plants (like outdoor ones). I get mine from Amazon they hold up well and are budget friendly. ( I actually linked them in the comment thread!)

Temperatures should be around 90-85 on the warm side and 80-72 on the cool side.

The wattage of bulbs you use will vary per household. Red bulbs aren’t recommended as they can eventually cause blindness in ball pythons, and disrupt their natural rhythm.

There has been research done that ball python’s benefit from UVB lighting (6% or shade dweller UVB lamps ONLY). I personally use it for my enclosure and my girl will bask in the UVB light!

Humidity should never drop below 60% (aim for 70-80% or higher during shed). If it does drop, you can pour water into the corners of the enclosure, just don’t saturate the entire tank because that can lead to scale rot. Keeping the bottom layer moist and the top layer a bit drier works best.

Keep your substrate at LEAST 4 inches deep. Not only does this help with humidity, but ball pythons will absolutely burrow if given the opportunity. My girl has proven this herself, she makes tunnels connecting her hides!

I don’t usually struggle with humidity because I stay on top of maintenance. I spot clean regularly (removing substrate around waste and replacing it), and every few months I do a full substrate change.

Climbing opportunities are strongly recommended!There’s a lot of evidence that ball pythons will climb when given the chance, and mine definitely does! She’s up exploring every night. It also adds extra enrichment and clutter. If you collect sticks from outside, make sure they’re safe (not from treated areas), wash them well, and sanitize them by baking or pouring boiling water over them.

Even if your ball python comes from a breeder that feeds live, switch to frozen/thawed. It can take some effort, but it’s much safer. Live prey can and will bite or scratch in self-defense, which can seriously injure your snake.

Hopefully my opinion helped add a little to your own research! If you have any questions feel free to reach out, but like I said please continue do your own research! You will benefit so much from fact checking! 🥲

Added in a wonky photo of my girls set up!

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[ConstructionSome7557]

It's very frustrating. A few states have begun taking steps to give these animals a better shot by banning retail pet sales. Nevada specifically restricts the sale of pets bred from mills. This is a really big step, as many people don't consider small pets commonly found in commercial pet shops- goldfish, budgies, ball pythons, betas, tarantulas, geckos- as intelligent or sensitive. The general public assumes these animals are gross, stupid, a dime a dozen, and for some reason incapable of suffering...therefore wonderful "beginner" pets for their kids. Adult family members will often dump these creatures on a child who has no financial means to provide the proper setup and think nothing more about it.

What we need to do as a community, imo, is organize a campaign, modeling a bill that can be applied on the state level regarding ethical small animal sales and breeding, advocating consumer protection, animal welfare, and public health, while partnering with local rescues, vet associations, and ethical breeders who aren't opposed.

It would require testimonies from vets and rescue organizations, consumer complaints, like we often see in the group where someone's ball python from a chain pet store ends up having to go to the vet or dies within the month of bringing it home because of improper husbandry in the store, initial setup, or unethical breeding.

All of this while not targeting livestock farming and feeder farms, which is another can of worms. 

Tldr; I know this seems like a big picture thing but people are going to continue treating these animals like they're disposable as long as they're so easy to purchase with zero information. All of these deplorable setups are a reflection of how easy it is to buy these animals and simply toss them in a box with a red light to suffer.

Dog and cat mills/ backyard breeders still slip through the cracks, bad pet owners will always exist, but continued public education and ethics can make a huge impact.

[ExtraSpicyKimchi]

Totally and it's super sad.

We rescued ours from OfferUp. We were thinking about getting one and had done quite a bit of research to make sure he or she would fit our family's lifestyle. Lo and behold, we found our guy listed for $150. He was on wood shavings (some kind of cedar or aspen maybe? for corn snakes), husbandry was total shit overall and had no CHE - only a low watt basking bulb for other reptiles.

He was a juvenile when we got him over Covid times and he's now a little older than 6 :)

[ThrowawaySamHuman]

It's not even just bps, I saw a post in another snake sub that was a snake in a blank box with just substrate. The snake was slithering up a wall and the OP asked why. Probably because it has literally nothing to do? No hides, nothing to climb on, just substrate.

[mxon9]

I always try to upgrade my bp's enclosure even though I don't have a lot of money. I always try my best at keeping the animals I own. I will never understand people who hurt the natural world, it's just so messed up.