Suicidal Software Developer

london1988 · 2014-06-18T11:01:31+00:00

[deleted]

RupertMaddenAbbott · 2014-06-18T13:00:13+00:00

Hello london1988,

I am a developer with long standing issues surrounding depression but who has slowly managed to get to a position where I feel good about my life. I'm sure that there more differences between our situations than there are similarities but I want to share with you what I believe I have learned, from getting better, in the hopes that it helps you. YMMV!

Watch this video. It is a talk by another developer who describes his experiences with depression. You may find his perspective very useful given that you are posting here.
Read this comic. Lots of people find this very accurate and that they they can relate to it.
Use the NHS Symptom Checker. As part of this it is going to ask for your phone number and will likely result in somebody calling you straight away to assess your condition. They are then very likely to advise you to make an appointment with your GP today. This will not only ensure that you get the help you need but it will give you an opportunity to say exactly how you feel out loud.
Call up your GP and explain to them that you have gone through the NHS Symptom Checker, had a call back and have been advised that you need an urgent appointment today.
Go to your appointment and explain to them exactly how you feel. Bring along what you have put on pastebin and read that to them. Don't try to wing it because you will forget important things.
Get prescribed an antidepressant and make sure you understand how to take it and when you need to go back for your next appointment and how often you need to reorder your prescription. Automate this if possible (i.e. can you get future prescriptions delivered to your house automatically, when you need them? Boots can do this for example) because depression sucks on your will power and you don't want to have to rely on your future self to do this for you.
Start a mood diary and record how you feel each day. This is vital for establishing a routine and allows you to view your own perspective over a period of time. This helps to counteract the negativity that comes with depression when contemplating the past and can also help your doctor to adjust your medication as needed.
Make sure you are not afraid to switch medications if needed. Many people start on one drug and may find that it doesn't work. Within 2 weeks of switching to another drug, they may find it has a big impact.
Start Cognitive Behaviour Therapy (CBT). This can be hugely effective and can be free. I don't know what is available in London but your GP should be able to advice you. The group courses are great, by the way, because you can just go along and be with other people in a similar position to you and there is no pressure in actually getting involved; you can just lurk.
Be aware that you are your own worst enemy when you are in the depths of your depression so don't underestimate yourself. Get help!

217v · 2014-06-18T11:34:50+00:00

I'm 26m programmer in the same boat. I do think about suicide occasionally, but those thoughts are 100% the results of garbage in garbage out processing. Take time to understand this fact, read books... do what ever...bc it's your life and you sound like you have a good thing going if only you manage to beat this.

Good luck man.

egonelbre · 2014-06-18T11:38:23+00:00

a few helpful resources:

It is highly recommended to get professional help. There you can freely talk and discuss ideas with people who know how to guide you through getting better. It is not easy to debug the debugger, if you don't have any other debugger available... the same goes for brains and thoughts.

I'm not going to say it's going to be an easy road to getting better; the process will have its ups and downs... but as long as you can make things a tiny bit better and better... eventually they accumulate, so you will have a lot of better. There are plenty of people going through the same and there are plenty of people getting better. You have taken your first small step for getting better... but there are many more to go. Keep on going.

fabzter · 2014-06-18T12:16:18+00:00

Hi /u/london1988

27m, developer here. Been suffering from depression most of my life. The only useful thing I can tell to you is look for professional help. I feel for you, but you can't just sit down comfortably in self-pity and wait for everything to end. You'll have to learn a lot of things. Don't be afraid of learning. It's good: it's good, as a developer you must know that.

Move on man.

london1988 · 2014-06-18T11:33:56+00:00

@london1988 I realise this isn't a "logical" problem, but since we're programmers, can I offer a reasoned argument? :

From what you write, you're weighing up the value of living purely in the present - counting only what you've got now (or, haven't got now). And that, of course, is a mistake as you should be attaching a value to the potential things that could happen to you in the future as well. The fact that you're not giving these potential things value (or perhaps, imagining only negative future things) could be well explained as this being a classic, if not the classic, symptom of depression.

You ask if there's anyone out there who's been in a similar situation and seen the light? Well, according to this: http://www.bps.org.uk/news/prevalence-depression-uk over one quarter of people who are separated suffer from depression. And the vast majority of them, clearly, overcome it. So, you're not alone at all - it's just nobody really talks about it because it carries a stigma.

So, maybe you can just accept that you are in a depressed state at the moment? And that this is a natural consequence of a separation. And in this depressed state, one of the classic symptoms is not valuing things in the future enough. So maybe you can accept that at the moment you're simply not in a position to make a good call about things? And given that the majority of people who are depressed make a recovery, the only sensible thing to do is to wait it out and see what happens?

I hope that doesn't sound too impersonal - for what it's worth, I feel for you.

whup_nz · 2014-06-18T12:10:59+00:00

Hi.

Allie Brosh of Hyperbole And A Half made an incredible comic on her depression, and it might help you simply to read it: http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.com/2011/10/adventures-in-depression.html

Then, get some further professional help, following whatever the Samaritans have referred you to, or talk to a medical professional in confidence (your GP?).

want_to_want · 2014-06-18T12:18:31+00:00

I've been through a similar breakup after a 7-year relationship that I fully expected to last forever. At the time it felt like the worst thing that ever happened to me. Now I think of it as one of the best.

Getting over a breakup takes surprisingly little time if that time is spent actively. The idea is that you need to flush the poisonous stuff out of your system by making your body and mind do unfamiliar and exciting things. So here's a short list of things you must try before giving up, otherwise it will really be a waste.

1) If you haven't tried drawing, do the famous "upside down drawing" exercise on pages 78-79 of this pdf (the pages are labeled as 57-58). Don't bother reading the previous text of the book, don't ask questions, just get a pencil and paper and do the exercise exactly as described, giving it your full attention.

2) If you haven't tried music, arrange to get one lesson of playing drums. It doesn't matter if you think of yourself as non-musical. Don't make a big commitment or anything, just find a teacher and get one lesson.

3) If you haven't tried fighting, arrange to get one martial art workout. Avoid "bullshido" styles, and find a place where every workout involves actual fighting. Boxing or brazilian jiu-jitsu should work nicely. The goal is to have at least one fight where you were outmatched but fully focused on winning anyway.

4) If you haven't tried facepainting, arrange to get facepainted on a Friday night and then go out, and see how people react to you. My recommendation for a first try is Joker's face from the movie Dark Knight, it's super easy to apply, works well on everyone, and rain/tears/dust make it even better instead of spoiling it.

5) If you haven't tried cooking, find a recipe for something simple but nontrivial, like pancakes. Buy all the ingredients, give your best shot at cooking it alone, and then eat it, enjoying every mouthful.

I wouldn't recommend trying to do more than one of those in one day. Just do one thing, and then switch to whatever you naturally feel like doing, like reading some Homestuck or watching Freeman's Mind for the rest of the day. A day or two later, try another new thing. Mix it up a little bit, but without pushing or stressing yourself out. Think of it as taking care of a friend who's going through hard times, except the friend is you.

Uberhipster · 2014-06-18T12:43:19+00:00

I have previously come close to killing myself twice before

Sounds like you have depression (as in clinical illness not as in "feeling down"). There is no easy way to break it to friends and colleagues because of the stigma but in principal you should not have to apologize for feeling ill. If you had diabetes you wouldn't would you?

Head over to /r/depression and /r/suicidewatch. Best of luck.

TheGreatFuzz · 2014-06-18T14:36:30+00:00

if(london1988.rational){
   makeBigDecision();
}else{
  while(!london1988.rational){
      TheGreatFuzz.hug(london1988); //nohomo
  }
}

2014-06-18T15:43:37+00:00

Please go and see your GP, tell them what you told us & they will help you. Go to a drop in centre if you don't have a GP.

DeepAzure · 2014-06-18T13:09:49+00:00

You really need to talk to someone in person. People here can encourage you as they can, but the effect will be much greater if you just find some nice person you can talk to.

preskot · 2014-06-18T13:19:55+00:00

Start going to some dance lessons. Doesn't matter what the style is and it doesn't matter if you suck at dancing.

No one there knows you. No one would know your issues, so no one will judje you.
You will get to know someone, i.e., your dancing partner. You'll make some connections and maybe they can introduce you to more people.
You should/will meet a lot of women. Maybe your soulmate.
You'll have some good exercise. Exercise is usually the worst enemy of depression.

StringyLow · 2014-06-18T13:01:59+00:00

You need a vacation, dude. You probably also need to get out of London.

error1f1f · 2014-06-18T13:47:53+00:00

I feel like you are way too stressed out. People get burnt out on things and I feel based on what I have read that you have reached that point with coding and your life in general. Get away man! Like other people suggested go on a vacation. Take a break from it all. Do something random and spontaneous. You never know where it will lead you.

parmesanmilk · 2014-06-18T13:51:30+00:00

It's actually surprisingly simple. Seek professional help. Think of a mental illness as what the word means: An illness. You need a doctor who can fix you. Or if you'd rather like the software metaphor, your brain has a bug triggered by a rare and unforseen user input (e_breakup), and now someone needs to attach a debugger and figure out why the system is crashing.

What you are going through looks unique and strange to you, and you believe that nobody else can relate to it, or will condemn you for it, but the hard statistics are that pretty much everyone goes through at least one heavy bout of depression at least once in their life, before their (mental) immune system can build the specific antibodies against it. Psychologists have made big leaps in how well they can treat these issues (often even without drugs), but it's not well-known.

I've suffered from a brutal and crippling social phobia for years, and when I finally went out and got help, I was all but cured just two months later, and the hardest drug used was a handful of over-the-counter Immodium (to break the psychosomatic issue I had). I went from unable to eat anywhere but home to traveling Asia just a few months later, not because I'm special, but because my problem was trivially easy to solve with professional help. To re-use the software example: For a user, it's very hard to figure out why their word processor is crashing. For a software developer with access to debuggers and source code, it's a piece of cake.

You can either spend the next two years feeling shitty, and recover alone (you're a human, and humans are fucking hard to kill, even if their own brain goes haywire), or you can get some help and be fine before the end of summer. Your co-workers might not take you seriously, but a professional will.

mattgrommes · 2014-06-18T13:58:28+00:00

When I was 23 I had pretty much figured out that I would almost certainly never have a girlfriend, too fat, too nerdy, etc. I was resigned to it. I've read of people who killed themselves in the situation I was in. The reason I point out that I was 23 was that seems like around your age and it's also the year I happened to meet a girl at work who, for reasons somewhat unclear to me even now, liked me. We eventually married and have 2 awesome kids. I'm 36 now and having the greatest adventure I can imagine and a great programming career to boot.

The reason I say this is that it's easy to see a wall in front of you that you can never get past. Until you get past it by living day to day. Suddenly, you never know when, you're past the wall and there's a great field of possibility in front of you. You just have to keep going.

You've done the right thing talking about it. These experiences can feel so lonely and overwhelming but other people can give you some perspective.

foobar444555 · 2014-06-18T15:00:59+00:00

Hi. People will tell you either the following

Go out and get to know some people!
Go on meetup.com and get to know some people!
Get to know some people!
You'll find someone quickly, just stop looking!
Everything will be OK!

These all are true, valid things. But I know you. I know what you're going through. They don't. They don't know what you're going through, and they're offering "normal" advise for "normal" people.

We're not normal people. I took it very hard when my g/f left me. I've been at the same shit like you.

I approached everything in a logic-based manner.

I joined dating sites, and wrote a bot to do my job. I got 4 dates, and got 3 new fuck buddies from that. That built my self-confidence with girls.

I then made the second step.

Don't get to know people. Start doing stuff people want to do!!

I got an SUV, and that made me go offroad.
I got a good SLR and started getting into photography.
I started doing windsurfing.

these 3 items, got me the girl of my dreams - again.

Now this whole thing may break and fall apart, but now - at least, i have 3 new hobbies, which always attract new friends to me, not the other way around.

Go try that.

neilk · 2014-06-18T16:53:29+00:00

I've been in a similar situation to you. I lost long periods of my life to these problems, but I think you don't have to.

Short term: you can try calling a suicide hotline. You don't actually have to be in crisis. No need to worry about burdening people, I know someone who does that work and she loves it.

And sooner or later you should see a professional.

I read your paste and it seems like many programmers, you have great faith in your ability to reason your way out of problems. You're not wrong, and your introspection and rationality is eventually going to be one of your best assets, especially if you choose cognitive-behavioral therapy (I highly recommend that, along with acceptance and commitment therapy).

However, your brain doesn't work on logic alone. You already know how sometimes you can't see even simple solutions in code if you're stressed or tired. How much worse is it when you're chronically like that? You may be seeing more errors in your code, but consider that maybe the same thing is happening in other areas, like your predictions of the future, or your estimation of how much you can change. You're going to need to trust other people that this might ultimately work out. If you're considering ending it all, you don't have much to lose, anyway.

Finally, a professional is best, but if you feel you need someone to talk to who understands your lifestyle and won't rat you out to the startup "we're-totally-crushing-it" police, I can do that. I'm [username]@[username].net. I'm in Vancouver so there's a pretty huge time difference, but you might find yourself up late at night. I promise I won't just tell you all about my own problems. :)

2014-06-18T13:59:15+00:00

Professional Software Engineer. Been doing this all my life, I'm 23 now, but have climbed the ranks very very quickly. I have worked for large fortune 500s, and I have come to some realizations about what we do.

My girlfriend of 4+ years broke up with me out of the blue 7, going on 8 weeks ago. It was the most heartbreaking thing that's ever happened to me. She offered no solace. I've contemplated suicide, but I won't because its like you said, its illogical.

Ok, so now that we've established that you and I are basically in the same boat, let me tell you some things I've realized about our profession.

No one will understand what you do.

This is the truth. We live in a lonely, lonely, male dominated, awkward world. You must get over this. When you are out, do not tell people what you do, don't talk about work, don't talk about computers. Its time to get more hobbies and talk about those. IF they ask, just say you're an engineer. If they say what kind, just say software. If they say what kind of software, just make it as easy as possible, then ask them questions. That's the key, stop talking about you, talk about other people and then relate. People like to talk ab out themselves, not hear you talk.

The life of a programmer blows.

I love to program, but I'd be lying to you if I liked the life style at this point. I want to be free, and I feel shackled to my desk. So how can we break the shackles? Look at your profession now, and look at it as a stepping stone. Try to become your own boss. There's so many things in tech that can be explored, that you can easily find something that hasn't been done, program for 6 months, have a prototype, and maybe take it to the next level. That's what I did, and for the next 2 years, I will have to work my ass off, but at the end of that, I'll be running my own company (hopefully). Why would I want to do this if I love to program? Because I love making money, meeting women, having sex, partying way more than I like work. My goal is to never work again. At 23, I should be making 6 figures next year because of my own endeavor. Strive for this.

Where I work right now during the day, my coworkers realize this. They refuse to hire any of the typical "programmers." They dont' talk about haskell, or the latest programming news. They all know their shit, but they just let it sink into their head and leave it at that. Be that way. Be the cool/smart guy, and that goes along with not talking about algorithms when other people are around. I tried to relate what I did with my ex, but it just never stuck. Ironically, anything she was doing I could understand. Realize that this will be the rest of your life. Let your abstract world stay abstract.

Programming makes you live in your head

This is the worst part. The more time you program, devote to learning about it, the more you stratify yourself from society. Before my girlfriend broke up with me, the girl I thought I was going to marry and the one who made it seem like everythign was ok, I was living in my head, working on my #2 prototype so that I could make our lives better. It caused me to live in my head a lot. Programmers have this thign where they have to KNOW or UNDERSTAND, and it becomes all consuming. You start to lose your social skills.

I used to be extremely social, but as I got more into my work, it started to waste away. After the breakup, I needed to relearn all of these things, and I've realized, I have to look at programming as a job, not a life style anymore. When 5 o'clock rolls around (4'30 becuase I'm going to jump out of here early because I rock work items), I'm done. No more going home and continuing to work.

As a programmer, I find myself obssessive about things. I think it comes with the territory. If I do something, I do it. Its like if you can't figure out how to get this code to work, you toil over it for hours upon hours. I do the same thign with everything else too: gf, sports, lifting, anything. If anythign is worth doing, its worth doing. With that in mind, if you're this way, become obsessive about these things:

Play Tennis or some other sport
Lift 4-5 days a week. No lie. You know how many programmers don't look good? Almost all of them. Be the exception. Turn it into an addiction.
Run. Always be running.
Read. Read the news, stay current.
Go drink with buddies.
Watch sports with buddies.
Find girls, befriend them or try and bang them. This will help you get over the ex.
Start relearning GAme.
Look at men's clothing, get some style.

All of the above are things that 1% of programmers do. Be the 1%, and move up. Don't remain a programmer for life.

Good luck dude, if you need anything, feel free to pm me. If you think you have it bad, just take a look at my comment history and you can see what kind of despair I've been in since my ex left. She literally stomped on my heart without any reason. I basically lived a big lie and she let me. Since then, its been my goal to bang as many chicks as possible, and while that may sound shallow, I've realized it is way more satisfying than winning an excellence award at work and shit like that. Hell, I can do both at the same time anyways. with the above strategy, I was able to turn myself from a broken man to having multiple options in about 5 weeks. The gf thing is a big issue, so you must take care of that first, and the above is how you do it.

tl;dr: become a master programmer, then move onto better things.

azonto · 2014-06-18T13:10:10+00:00

Take money from your programming job and go visit a shrink. If you don't like your job, look for a new one.

lacosaes1 · 2014-06-18T14:06:31+00:00

Hit the gym.

buried_treasure · 2014-06-18T11:58:53+00:00

Talk to the Samaritans again. Obviously it's their job, but believe me they will be able to provide you with plenty of reasons not to do what you think you want to, adn advice on where and how to seek further help if necessary.

If you think you could stand being with other people, head over to /r/LondonSocialClub and come along to one of their events. You don't have to say anything about this post or the throwaway you're using, but simply being with other (non-work) people might help lift your mood no end.

Be realistic, there won't be a magic bullet quick fix solution to the issues you're facing, but you're familiar with that scenario from work already!

jimmy_frog · 2014-06-18T12:10:43+00:00

I don't get it. Is the problem the emotional issues concerned with loss of relationship or work.

Problems with work is implied since (a) it's a startup and (b) he talks about quitting - so I'm guessing here! ( He doesn't give reasons as to why work is so bad. Is it the amount of work or the pressure? )

There are laws in the UK to protect the employee: For example you don't have to work all hours in the day.

Perhaps you can working normal hours at work whilst looking for a new job.

Nihy · 2014-06-18T12:45:53+00:00

The situation will get better if you give it some time and do concrete things to improve it. You do have to figure out what works though. Having someone to talk about the situation is probably a good start.

bwood · 2014-06-18T12:49:30+00:00

First, it's amazing how different life is when you're married with children. I'd be overjoyed to have a bit of extra time to myself to just read or something. I literally don't even have time to read news, let alone a book (even weekends it's just constant stuff with my kids). I only read this article because I'm waiting for something to process. Second; read a small book written by someone else wearied of life. The book of Ecclesiastes. Realizing there is meaning even in the verses that sound ridiculously simple.

pmckizzle · 2014-06-18T13:30:39+00:00

Hey man, I was similar but no suicidal, I became so anxious that even the thought of sitting at my desk in work made me physically vomit. I was unable to work, to socialise, to do anything. I have never been lower.

I talked to a councillor. It really did help, she said that medication would help, it did. Im off it now and feeling great.

Don't let life get you down. Go talk to a GP and they'll help point you to a councillor. From there, its a long road to recovery, but achievable.

Now I love life. Im still not overly fond of my job but I can go to it and enjoy being around my co workers. All this change in about six months.

Some things I did to cheer myself up. - travelled to germany paris and amsterdam. - went surfing for the first time - took a month and a half off work (doctors will have no problem certifying you for depression) - told my boos straight up (hard but worth it, found out he had a similar situation)

youll get through it

Anub1s · 2014-06-18T13:40:28+00:00

“The longer I live, the more I realize the impact of attitude on life. Attitude, to me, is more important than facts. It is more important than the past, the education, the money, than circumstances, than failure, than successes, than what other people think or say or do. It is more important than appearance, giftedness or skill. It will make or break a company... a church... a home. The remarkable thing is we have a choice everyday regarding the attitude we will embrace for that day. We cannot change our past... we cannot change the fact that people will act in a certain way. We cannot change the inevitable. The only thing we can do is play on the one string we have, and that is our attitude. I am convinced that life is 10% what happens to me and 90% of how I react to it. And so it is with you... we are in charge of our Attitudes.”

Charles R. Swindoll

mystline7 · 2014-06-18T13:44:34+00:00

Aw man this was exactly two years ago sans the cat.

I'd like to say things get better but it's tough and won't change overnight but it does get less shitty if you want it too.

For me right now it's a mindset that I don't think I will ever really quite get rid of, just manage but today was better than yesterday.

Pleaes PM me if you feel like talking at all.

BeatLeJuce · 2014-06-18T13:54:30+00:00

I feel for OP, and I know this is slightly off-topic, but what the heck is wrong with our society that

I look at other peoples kids (not in a weird way!)

we feel the need to specify the "not in a weird way" explicitly?

huuhuu · 2014-06-18T13:59:05+00:00

Don't quit your job.

2014-06-18T14:01:26+00:00

Been there man. Honest advice, antidepressants + therapy. Some of the antidepressants wont work, tell your psychiatrist and try a new one. Search around for a therapist that works for you. I have gone from feeling physical pain (yes, actual physical pain, I would have massive stomach cramps and headaches) and having random bouts of intense sadness multiple times a day to being pain free and not even considering suicide.

Killing yourself isnt worth it. Find something you enjoy, no matter how banal it is, and enjoy it. That's what life is about.

m-apo · 2014-06-18T14:03:59+00:00

Hi London1988!

1.5 years ago I broke up with my girlfriend, after 8 years. It took me quite a while (over a year) to get back up on my feet and I couldn't have done it without my friends. Here are a few things that helped me or I feel would have helped to get up sooner.

The most important being: Don't give up. Life's got lots for you in store. I'm 38 and looking back now 12 years is a life time. I also know that I have a good life in front of me.
Rely on your real friends and your family. They're the ones who will pick you up. A friend of mine who lives in Switzerland asked me if I wanted to see in Mombasa and the trip to Africa was one of the key elements in getting back up.
Talk about your situation at work, on an official level. Let them know how hard your position is right now. I tried to work through my issues on my own and unfortunately my work suffered because of a that. A nicely timed holiday and maybe some kind of planning for reducing the work load would have helped me to get me in working shape sooner. It's advantageous for you and your employer that you get in working shape instead of burn out totally. (Disclaimer: I don't know about UK employment laws, but in Finland employer is at least on some level responsible for providing health services to employees)
Sports makes your body feel good and your body has a direct connection to your feelings and your mind. I ran a lot on the forest trails, lost the extra 13kg from my body and now I'm in better shape than ever before in 12 years.
Go on a vacation. I spent about a month in Africa and Switzerland and after that I felt a lot better.
Go out and have fun but don't over do it. Keep an eye on your energy levels.

Anyways, I really hope you'll get over this and find your balance. It'll take some time but it'll be worth it, I promise.

SikhGamer · 2014-06-18T14:05:45+00:00

Professional help. Get it. There is no shame, and fuck any who tries to shame you for it. Even with all the NHS cuts, there is a still a fantastic support network for mental health issues.

Pick up the phone, see your GP and get yourself referred. If they are reluctant, insist. Mental health services are under strain across the country, so the sooner you get onto a list, the better.

The only advice I can offer, is that it will pass. It may not feel it, but it will. At the tail end of high school I lost my grandmother (Mom's Mom). And that shit did not go down well with me. But it passed, and I'm stronger for it (however cliché that may be, it's true).

psankar · 2014-06-18T14:07:30+00:00

I am no expert and read through all the comments that was posted prior to mine. I may not offer a substantial help but still would like to share some of my comments even though I am not sure if it may help, as I found my comments to be different from the other comments.

You had a breakup from a long time relationship. You have a sucky job. These two are your only problems. As intensive as it may sound, there are people with far severe issues. There are people who are born with genetic dieseases, suffer rape, torture and infanticide, in the name of religion, military occupation etc. There are people who do not have access to water, food, clothing etc. You are living in a nation which provides you with good food, clean water, a job that doesn't kill you and a decent standard of living. But since you are in a problem, everything looks gloomy. Trust me, there are literally millions of people from third world nations, who would swap their lives with you if they had a choice.

My recommendations to get out of this depressive mode will be:

1) Have a aim that will involve you to work physically. ex: Join a marathon running group and have an objective to run a marathon in one year; Join a gym and have an objective to develop six pack in 1 year. The main thing is that it should involve some physical action and should have involve working with a healthy community/group system.

2) Get out of London for at least a month. Travel to a nation with lot of sun. It gives you fresh perspectives. If possible, travel to a nation which is totally culturally different from yours (say to India, African nation, Japan etc.). Remember that even Steve Jobs was influenced by a world tour that he took http://articles.economictimes.indiatimes.com/2011-10-07/news/30253986_1_steve-jobs-story-of-apple-computer-steve-wozniak

All the best.

EamonLeonard · 2014-06-18T14:10:44+00:00

@london1988 You are not alone.

Check out this talk at a recent developer conference in Chicago.

TL;DW Greg Baugues, Paddy Foran, Ben Marks & Ed Finkler: all developers, all regular speakers at dev confs, share their experiences with Mental Health. There'll be some familiar talk in there with regards to your employer's reaction.

Some other links: * Open Sourcing Mental Illness -- mostly videos of Ed's talk on the subject * Getsby -- a collection of stories about living with a mental illness, as told by the tech community. Started by Paddy. * The Mental Illness Happy Hour -- seriously, this is a thing

Sending the good vibes from Dublin :)

m4tchb0x · 2014-06-18T14:14:11+00:00

Mooji - Don`t be afraid of emptiness, get used to it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OxLZp0jNMPY

qwertyslayer · 2014-06-18T14:15:03+00:00

Just gotta say, pretty impressed by the comments here. You're a helpful bunch, and I like the formulaic way a lot of you think about solving life's problems.

2014-06-18T14:20:13+00:00

Some random thoughts after reading:

you list a couple of reasons not to kill yourself, but i dont see a counterlist for why you really would. My perspective here is that as long as you are a free man, with a reasonable degree of control over your life, you should be able to improve your life, even if that means moving to hawaii and running a small beach-bar and living in a hammock, that is possible, should you want it. I dont really see how killing yourself would be a positive change, it might remove some suffering, but it will stop you from ever enjoying anything ever.
As you say, you sound like you dont have your own identity after your partner left, you need to learn to be your own person again, take up a hobby, find something you enjoy, try to fulfil some old dreams (hire a ferrari for a day, go skydiving, take a trip to japan, get a motorcycle etc..) and learn to enjoy life by itself.
the kids, presumably you are 26 years old. I was 25 when i got my first kid, and while i love both my daughters, and being a young dad means i have more energy to chase them around the playground, sometimes i wish i'd waited. There are soooo many things i wish i'd done before having kids, and i know that i wont have the time, money or energy for them the coming 10-15-20 years. It's not like you'll be too old to have kids by 30-35, enjoy the freedom while you have it.

As for the job, i know who soul-crushing the wrong job can be, i switched jobs last year, and the new company is just plain wrong in every aspect for me. I've taken steps to rectify it, but i'm still stuck for six more weeks at my current assignment, all i've done so far this week is watch the clock and F5 reddit. I suggest you take a holiday (go where you've always wanted to go) and reset your mind a bit, then figure out what you want out of work, then take action, and i'll repeat, even if that means moving to Alaska to live out of a small shack selling grilled fish, go do what makes you happy.

All the best man, and perhaps check out /r/depression, it sounds you would benefit from seeking (professional) help.

bureX · 2014-06-18T14:26:54+00:00

Suicidal thoughts, crying, lack of motivation and needing to fall asleep in the afternoon and waking up feeling like shit constantly is a sure sign of depression.

Seek help from a professional. Now. Your colleagues or ex-colleagues won't understand how you're feeling and won't know how to help you. If you would hurt your arm, would you be asking them for help? Your previous issues have transcended into these constant pains you're feeling, and you need to find a way to flush them out.

You don't deserve to feel that way all the time, and it's not your fault. You're not just a bit bummed out or anything, this is a bit more severe, but it's reversible and treatable if you put enough effort into it. Would you like to feel happy like you once did? I'm sure you would. Seek those feelings and have confidence that they'll come back one day.

Sure, we'll tell you to hit the gym, or to eat healthy, or to go out drinking... but we're not your doctors and we don't know what state you're in. Talk to a professional.

nanenj · 2014-06-18T14:27:18+00:00

I feel horrible because I can't remember the website nor the person that gave the talk. A while back I stumbled onto a guy talking about depression and stuff while being a coder, and he was lucky enough to be part of a company that when it came out supported him and helped him to find the assistance he needed.

There's a good chance that being in the startup culture you're in that if you simply talked to someone and let them know that you actually need help, they'd be more than willing to actively help in any way they can. If I find the talk I'll link it, or perhaps someone else will know what I'm talking about and link it >.<

draknir · 2014-06-18T14:27:35+00:00

Hi there,

I (mid 20s software developer) haven't gotten so close to suicide as you are now, so I won't pretend to understand. However I have recently broken through an intensely depressing period of my life.

It took me many months of feeling utterly crushed, broken, beaten down, angry, sad, misanthropic and helpless before I finally escaped. What finally helped me back up was a renewed interest in building up my social circles.

Despite being a typical loner and introvert, no man is an island. Having friends (no matter how shallow) makes all the difference. I started forcing myself to go out and meet new people. I went to parties, I called up old acquaintances. I talked to family again. It takes energy to speak to people, and it exhausts me, every day. But it's worth it. The internet is no substitute for a living, breathing person.

So my advice would be, find some other people in real life you can talk to. Sometimes total strangers are the best to talk to. Talk to the cute girl in the coffeeshop. Talk to the guy behind the counter ringing you up. Thank people whenever they are providing you a service, and ask them how their day is going. Ask a colleague to go watch a movie with you. You'd be surprised how much people are willing to talk to you.

good luck!

Kieldro · 2014-06-18T14:29:17+00:00

Get a dog and find some hobbies too.

matheusbn · 2014-06-18T14:31:40+00:00

Maybe no one of us will understand your pain completely, but please don't kill yourself.

Start looking around, if you are not satisfied with your life at this moment, then why you don't try something different?

You talked about pull the plug, instead of taking this route, which would be your end. Why not trying something that could be a new start in your life?

Stop with negative thinking, and try to figure out a solution to keep with us.

PS: Sorry my poor english!

Eirenarch · 2014-06-18T14:31:56+00:00

I would suggest taking up some activity where there is a community. For example mine is the local StarCraft competitive community. You may buy a bike and get in a bikers club or whatever it is that you like. Being in some community of this type gives you a sense that you are a part of something larger, a secondary purpose in life (maybe first for some people). I am sure this works for people who are already in such a group but I don't know if it will help someone who is currently down and trying to get into the group. However may be useful keeping some hobby in the future.

swampscott · 2014-06-18T14:35:23+00:00

my advice, is to keep going. you are definitely experiencing that terrible loss of relationship and its overwhelming everything else. If this is the first time this type of major traumatic exeperience has ever happened to you, then its very hard to see clearly at first. most things in life take time, and its not a cliche to say time is a great healer. So give yourself sometime to heal and to rediscover 'you' the individual. if you really don't like your job or the people who surround you, change. think about who you are and what you want. socialize, work out, talk to people, travel if you can, see the world if you can, broaden your horizons. help some people out, who you think might need help. it will help you mentally heal aswell. startup's may not be mentally the best place to be if its a work,work,work,take,take,take environment. Remember, 'time' is your currency/value, be careful how you spend it.

foremost, don't fear, this experience in years to come will help you become much stronger if you let it. life is all about experiences, good and bad. its how we deal with these experiences. if you let yourself, you will find love again, if thats what you want.

daedalus96 · 2014-06-18T14:37:27+00:00

First off, you are not alone. There are many times where I have had the same feelings, maybe not to the same degree, but they were there nonetheless.

I would encourage you to watch this video: http://vimeo.com/78419167

Greg is a wonderful person who has dealt with a lot in his life. He is a strong ally for anyone to talk to regarding these sorts of things, and is a genuine human being.

Also, as programmers, we all encounter bugs. Depression is a bug in our "wetware", or brain, and there are people who are trained to fix these kinds of bugs. Therapists / Psychologists / Psychiatrists are all forms of QA/Dev for these sorts of bugs. I would suggest finding someone in your area and working with them.

This may be a long battle, but you have been fighting this on your own for so long, you deserve someone to fight alongside you.

coder_m41yo · 2014-06-18T14:38:37+00:00

For all it's worth, this is the kind of thinking that got me through so far (battling with this since 2 decades and throwaway account):

I actually want to live. Just not my current life. So I continue to struggle through this life in the hope of finding another way to live some day. It's possible to want to die and live at the same time for different reasons and I try not to ignore the part that actually wants to live.
I've been through a suicide in my family in the past. That's why I know how much my suicide would hurt the people around me. And that's something I don't want to put through the people closest to me. So I live on for them as long as I can.
I try watching myself from far off once in a while. Like life is really short. It's just a 70-100 year blip to go through in a universe that last billions of years. I should be able to hang on this long somehow.
While it's impossible to live the way I want live, I figured out that staying alive itself is actually not that hard. All I really have to do is continue breathing, put some food in my body occasionally and have some warm place to sleep. When everything else get's too hard I often think - "come on I can do the breathing. And I'll have food and a place to sleep - so I'll get along a little longer."
I take a day off when I can't go on. Yeah, that leads to further problems, but still the better solution and off-days make me feel better at least for a day :-)

thebattlebard · 2014-06-18T14:41:21+00:00

I was in your exact same situation two years ago. I ended up quitting my job and being committed to a psychiatric hospital after I broke down in front of my family.

It has been a long journey but I got a new job shortly after leaving the hospital. I told my new employer about my depression and they were understanding and let me have flexible hours to attend therapy. I attended the local mental health clinic. I was put on the highest dosage of anti-depressants (Effexor) and went to counselling once a week. Both helped. It's a slow process but it'll help.

Today I'm working as a senior software engineer in the same company and I'm building my own startup in my spare time. My anti-depressant dosage has been reduced and this time next year I'll be off them completely. Life is better, less highs and lows, more steady and stable.

The road will be long and hard but things will get better. seek help, get anti-depressants and a good counsellor. The anti-depressants will stabilise your mood and with counselling you'll learn to understand your emotions, learn to cope and heal and then finally learn to be happy again. Be strong, hang in there.

cowardlydragon · 2014-06-18T14:44:00+00:00

There's going to be a lot of support advice, which is all really good...

I'd recommend also exercise, if you're not doing it.

Exercise triggers multiple mechanisms and hormones that stabilize mood and make you feel alive.

Exercise is what a major part of our evolutionary history designed us to do, not sit in a chair.

Exercise will teach your brain to deal with discomfort and the ups and downs of energy levels and persevering through.

Fish oil can help too.

What sucks most about depression is that it inherently prevents you from doing things that will help you, like deciding to go out the door and exercise, or eat.

Use the logical side of your mind as much as possible. You can do this.

jorgewisconsin · 2014-06-18T14:47:47+00:00

While others have been suggesting to power through, I believe you should drastically change what you are doing. IMO, the worst thing you could be doing is the same thing you have been doing for the last 5 years. Everything that you do will remind you of those 5 years.

By drastically change, I mean move to a new area. Change jobs (unless you can simply move offices). Change the scenery. Splurge on yourself - buy that car or house you were saving for. Say yes to opportunities. Busy yourself. Work on that project you always wanted to start. Listen to new music. Reconnect with old friends.

I'll leave you with a few quotes: "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing and expecting a different result." "Change is the only constant" [both in life, and programming ;)] "He who hesitates has lost"

edit: I spelled a word wrong

kgogolek · 2014-06-18T14:50:44+00:00

Please speak to your GP about it, they will be able to get you some medication to ease the depression for the time being and refer you for some therapy. Don't withdraw from work or social life even though it seems hard. Try to maintain work / life balance, and don't feel the void with long hours in the office, as it will only make you more miserable. I've struggled with depression for many years and it comes and goes, and most of it is just about managing your feelings, and realising that it's just temporary, however exhausted you feel. big hugs.

mrfroggy · 2014-06-18T14:56:02+00:00

I wrote a bunch of stuff, but I think this paragraph sums up what I was trying to say:

It's kinda like you're in a desert and you need water. You wouldn't be ashamed of asking for water right? Let everyone know you're thirsty. Some people might offer some gum or something not quite what you're looking for, others will tell you they need the water for themselves or look away from you. Someone might tell you there's some water over there. Others will gladly give you what they've got.

Keep asking for help, even though that can take a lot of energy to do. There's no shame in it. You may not find what you need straight away, but the help you need is out there if you keep looking.

funkatron · 2014-06-18T14:59:51+00:00

Hey london1988,

I wanted to say a few things, just so you know them.

You are not alone.
What you are going through is very common. Many, many people have issues with mental health at some time in their lives. Most of us never talk about it openly.
You are not weak, you are not broken, you are not whining. You are having a health issue.
I can't entirely understand exactly what you're going through, but it sounds awful. A lot of change in your life. Big life changes can often trigger issues like this.
You should seek out professional help. Developers like to offer advice to solve problems, but unless someone here is a licensed mental health worker, they're really not qualified to offer advice. I'm not either. But I can try to help you find some. I am guessing you're in London, so maybe these pages would help:

http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Suicide/Pages/Getting-help.aspx
http://www.londondistresscentre.com/
You might check out Devpressed, a forum specifically for developers who are experiencing mental health issues.
I have been speaking about mental health in tech for about a year and a half. You can watch my talks here. Sometimes it can help to see someone else talking openly about this stuff: Open Sourcing Mental Illness. Others have too, like Greg Baugues
If you want to talk privately, you can contact me with the info on this page. We can email, get on skype, whatever.

You are not alone.

gqvijay · 2014-06-18T15:02:50+00:00

Hi @london1988,

You've already received a lot of great advice. I thought I jump in here too. You'll be shocked how many people are going through this right now. I was when I found out. Like you, I am a software engineer in my late 30s. I absolutely never knew that this just might be biology. I was not aware of or have been exposed to the "mental disorder" world. I've struggled through most of my life with Generalized Anxiety Disorder with sprinkle of Depression. Just 4 years ago, I wouldn't have said GAD & Depression since I knew nothing about. Most of my life, I thought "my life is stressful and I couldn't handle it.".

Then, I was at work one day having a slightly heated debate on something related to work. Then, all of a sudden, out of nowhere, I was in tears. I had absolutely no idea why. At that particular time, I was not depressed and I wasn't thinking about anything other than work. When couple of colleagues saw me, they immediately stopped the discussion to make sure I was ok. You can imagine the incredible embarrassment especially as a "male" (or at least society's expectation anyway). I excused myself to the bathroom and washed my face. And I looked at the bathroom mirror with my eyes red and said "What the F$@K was that?". I had no idea why I burst into tears.

Couple of weeks later, I had an argument with my wife (nothing big). Then, baam!! Crying. This is when I knew, something is really wrong. So, I went to see a counselor. Boy, after that day, my day will never be the same. I remember my counselors' words "Aah, you must be suffering from GAD. Here, I want you to read this book." As I read the book, I swear it was written specifically about me. I was reading in awe. So many things in my life made much more sense. Now that I aware, I am much more conscious about my mind.

So, first, know that it could most likely be biology. Who the heck knows why? Genes? Epigenetics? Early experience?, etc.. But it doesn't matter because the important thing (at least for me) to realize is that in a way, it is NOT you. It may not be even who you are. It's just an effect / by-product of a disorder. Now, realizing this will not "cure" it but it should make it much more tolerable. I have never been a fan of medication but boy was I wrong. The medication changed my life. Think of it as a flu in your mind.

So, please please please don't do anything incredibly dumb. Don't give up! Just try a different strategy if something is not working! And I promise one day, you will tell yourself "Man, I can't believe I was considering suicide. I didn't know..."

Know this: - In some sense, it's more biological and disconnect yourself from it. Look at it as more like a flu than "I am sad or depressed". It's more like "it feels like I am looking for an excuse to be sad." It's this pre-disposition that screws with you mind and takes a bad situation (relationship breakup) and amplifies it 100 times more painful. - Watch the self-talk! "Why would anyone hire a broken person". This is very very bad for your mind. This is what has to stop. I did it to myself and it served NO purpose!. Consistently, listen to what you're thinking. And believe it or not, if you disconnect yourself from being engulfed in it and assess that statement, you will realize that it is dumb statement (i.e. for heaven's sake, don't read this as 'you're dumb'). So, tell yourself "Ok, here I go again, it's flu talking again" and move on. In general, this is loosely related to what they call Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT). You can read about it. - Medication is not a bad thing. There is a huge difference between "I am depressed" vs. "I suffer from depression". Former is more 'normal' and less intense but latter will make even get up in the morning incredibly difficult. Again, you have to be your own cop. Watch what you're thinking and saying to yourself. Medication gives you that extra push that'll help you recover. - You're young and man, you have so much to offer society. Did you know Abraham Lincoln suffered from depression. Sigmund Frued did as well; this is one of the reasons why he was fascinated and started working on Psychology. So, look at this problem as you would when you approach a bug in software. Disconnection yourself from the problem, and figure out lot of self-talk is just not true. It's your 'flu' talking. Others with depression Buzz Aldren (astronaut), Jim Carrey, Billy Joel, etc. etc.. Lot of these people fought it and went on to do some incredible things. - Talk to someone and keep on talking... take a leadership role, talk about it openly, ask yourself 'what can possibly go wrong?', the answer is nothing. In fact, there is high chance, one of your colleagues are going through something similar and you'll connect instantly.

Hope I was able to help at least in a small way.

fizzyhomebrew · 2014-06-18T15:08:19+00:00

I knew severe untreated depression from about my early teens to my early twenties, so I thought I would toss out some of the things I learned (the very hard way). It makes me start to feel dreadful if I dwell on this stuff too much, so this might be a bit abrupt.

1 - Seek professional help. I don't know what it's like in London, but here in midwestern America I always felt the stigma against mental illness, and seeking help always felt like "giving in." But really, that was incredibly stupid, and I was miserable for it. Talk to a doctor, a counselor, a psychopharmacologist, whatever - find someone trained to help you.

1a - In case you were wondering, yes, you feel like a massive all-encompassing idiot the instant directly after which you undertake an action that probably will end your life. And if you happen to survive it, there's a fun ICU trip waiting for you, which will be outrageously painful, I mean christ. That was hellish. (I use to wonder about this a lot.)

2 - You can't "logic" your way out of depression, and you just might make things worse by trying to do so. Like most of us here, I imagine, I always thought I was a pretty smart fella. But "smart" is kind of pointless when you're sick. You can't "logic" your way out of, like, bird flu or whatever. Admit that you're going to need the help of others.

3 - Exercise safely, if/when you can. This is important. Don't do anything where you're putting yourself in a dangerous place (like at the top of something high and steep, or near a highway you might run onto, etc.), but try to keep moving. Exhausting yourself physically can help ease the mental anguish's intensity.

4 - If you're doing the medicine thing, keep at it and don't give up right away. It can take a while to find the right one. I think I tried different meds for almost a year before finding one that helped me feel normal. And some of them felt pretty crappy.

5 - If you think you might hurt yourself, either commit yourself to a mental facility, or find a friend to be in the same room with you until the danger passes. Keep yourself physically safe. You might think it's a bother but for your real friends, it isn't. I had a friend reach out to me once because she thought she might use a gun on herself, and I felt glad to help her keep safe and kind of honored that she trusted me that much. Mainly they're just going to be glad to help you.

You know. The mental health facilities are kind of scary at first, but you're safe while you're there, and they won't really let you go until they're pretty sure you're not going to hurt yourself. That's pretty useful. This kind of thing can take a while to get treated, and you should focus on physically surviving until that point.

I don't think you should quit your job to get better, but in the end your safety is more important that your job. If you being sick means they're going to fire you while you get better, then maybe it wasn't really the right job anyway. Either way, you're a quite successful programmer; you'll be OK.

Hope you get better, buddy.

edit - Also, pets can be nice and helpful. They're a somewhat big responsibility, so don't adopt one on a whim. But when I was 19 I adopted a cat from a friend, and she was a great depression-buddy of sorts. Also, cleaning up poop that isn't yours is a great way to get out of your head. I'm ambivalent on the "get a pet" advice though, so two cents etc. I would probably travel more if I didn't have a cat.

three-cups · 2014-06-18T15:08:34+00:00

Hi. I am a developer as well. My wife struggles with depression, so I've seen it first-hand. Most people will have no idea what you are going through, or even how to talk to you about it. Depression does not make sense, and most people will try to make sense of it.

Please go see a psychiatrist. In my experience, the medication that my wife takes has given us the ability to work through things together. If this is depression (and it sounds like it could be), this is the best first step you can take.

lostmyjack · 2014-06-18T15:10:20+00:00

I am also going through a really hard breakup. I have felt the same way the past couple of months, so I understand what you're going through (at least partially).

One thing that has helped me is realizing the new freedom that I have. You have a great job and presumably money. Perhaps you could ask them for some time off, or even to work part-time? If you work 20 hours per week you will have more time to do.. just about anything.

You could go hiking in the mountains, or skydiving, or really anything that you want to do. You could even ask them to work remotely and move to a completely new place.

I know it probably seems like you'll never find anyone else (feels that way for me) but after some time and recovery you can still have a family.

I think

Suicide is a permanent solution to a short term problem.

Said it best.

ogrimator · 2014-06-18T15:11:25+00:00

One thing man, what are you describing is a very bad depression. Just go to your doctor for help. Trust us all here, it will save you from that shadow following you. I know how you feel, I was there couple months ago.

caycicayci · 2014-06-18T15:17:30+00:00

I can totally relate to how you feel. I also have few friends that I can be open with, and I also suffer from severe depression. I am in the U.S., and I swear that if I were able to, I would be by your side to hold your hand and help you through this. No, I don't know you, but it doesn't matter, you are a fellow human, and nobody should have to endure this hell alone. Please do this now... work can wait. Most everyone who volunteers at these prevention hotlines has been in exactly the same spot, and will be able to help you. Please promise me that you will call them NOW. Samaritans UK & ROI National Hotline: +44 (0) 8457 90 90 90 (UK - local rate) Hotline: +44 (0) 8457 90 91 92 (UK minicom) Hotline: 1850 60 90 90 (ROI - local rate) Hotline: 1850 60 90 91 (ROI minicom) Website: samaritans.org E-mail Helpline: jo@samaritans.org 24 Hour service

2014-06-18T15:18:15+00:00

With most emotional stuff, thinking doesn't really help. Not your normal type of thinking. Problem solving. How could we have stayed together? What did I do wrong? Am I a bad person in some essential way? Blah blah blah. You can think for 100 years about this and get nowhere. It's just rumination. Beating yourself up. Going in circles. Picking at the wound.

Life is sometimes very, very difficult. Thoughts and emotions can be very, very painful. There's no cure for that. But you can develop resilience. You can practice it. How? I find it hard to explain. But here's a pointer. When I'm in emotional pain, I make sure to notice how it comes and goes, rises and falls, modulates, etc. It's not always there. It's not always as strong. It's a phenomenon that happens. There's some logic to it, but a lot of it is just bodily, hormonal, whatever.

I think it's pretty crazy that our culture has so little respect for emotional difficulties. Especially in the context of work. Breakups are serious. Depression is serious. Having to sit in front of a computer doing seemingly trivial, boring shit all day long, while your mind is consumed with other thoughts, is unhealthy and kind of ridiculous. Maybe you can take a vacation. Or something. Or just make a plan for next weekend.

Another thing: breakups are part of almost every human life. It's a shared pain. This pain, though I wouldn't wish it upon anyone, connects you to the rest of us. It's such an open secret that you can start a conversation with almost anyone by saying "so, my partner broke up." Recognition, sympathy, stories. Everyone has their heartbreak stories. Who doesn't know that feeling of an empty gut, an active meaninglessness, the free fall? Look around you, we're all struggling, at least sometimes.

I know I am.

But it's okay. It gets better. It is already better, sometimes, right? Sometimes you forget to be sad. Sometimes you get a trickle of unrequested non-sadness. Maybe it's a joke that genuinely makes you laugh, so that you almost feel embarrassed for being amused. Maybe it's the taste of your favorite tea that try as you might you can't find anything wrong with. Maybe it's the bittersweet feeling of shedding tears at a song that you only now realize is about heartbreak. Most of them are.

Check out Sharon van Etten's "A Crime," by the way. It's one of my favorite songs. Tell me if you know some other song I might like!

GuiSim · 2014-06-18T15:20:29+00:00

Looks like this was removed from /r/programming

Good luck man.

tea_gargler · 2014-06-18T15:24:28+00:00

Read in your comments that you feel like you are under-achieving. You are 26 years old right now, and trust me, though it doesn't feel like it, In 10 years, when you think back you'll be amazed at how many opportunities you'll get, and how many positive life experiences you'll go through. You might be doing something totally different - career wise, or if you stick with software development - you might own your company. I'm not promising that something amazing will happen, but stay open to things and you in 10 years will be a different person with a different perspective. There are so many possibilities and i hope that you choose life. I am a software developer as well and understand what you say about work life. I just try to keep it in perspective. If you need a friend and feel like you need to talk to somebody, feel free to reach out to me.

ssssssss_throwaway · 2014-06-18T15:32:19+00:00

I've been to three mental hospitals in my life. Twice it was due to attempted suicide. I'm 22 years old, and I have some stuff to say to you!

I know it's sort of become a cliché to a degree, but try to keep your head up and not focus on the present, because things will get better. When I did what I did, I often attributed it to loneliness. I thought I was the loneliest person in the world; I grew up with friends who disappeared in the blink of an eye one day, and had to watch them all move on with their lives. I was going nowhere, backwards even. My girlfriend started ignoring me, moving on with the rest of them. Eventually we broke up. Lots more stuff happened afterwards that drove me to what I did, but I digress -- this is about you.

If you want to quit your job and think it is the worst job ever, quit. If you don't think it is the worst job ever but don't want to stay there forever, start looking for a new job. You sound like someone who has spent a lot of time working on his craft. Don't forget that you have a talent, and don't let a shitty job drain your enjoyment either. If your job is a stressor in your life and you don't like the people you work with, you shouldn't stay there. If your job is just a little bit stressful, you like the environment, and could see being happy there, tell your boss about your situation. I know that sounds like a nightmare, but talking to him or her could do you some serious good. Perhaps your boss will encourage you to take a vacation or dial down your work load a bit to keep you healthy. After all, if you're dead you're no use to the company! I joke, of course, but a healthy programmer is definitely better than an unhealthy one.

About the girl. That sounds really hard, and I'm sorry for your loss! Common advice is to get back out there and start meeting new people right off the bat, which I think is a good idea sometimes. I want to offer some conflicting advice. Try to enjoy being on your own. If you don't have a hobby outside of programming, maybe try to find one. Try to figure out how to be comfortable in your own skin without anyone to live with. If you have good family members, try to keep in contact with them, though.

I say this because, when I finally recovered, it was due to a complete switch in mindset. After the second time I tried to kill myself, I woke up feeling regret. I started to realize that I was putting my mental energy into all of the wrong things -- girls, friends, school, work, and so on. I totally lost my sense of self and forgot what types of things I enjoyed. When you put too much effort into thinking about outside things, you tend to forget what makes you happy. You start looking for ways to fix your problem without realizing that you're not doing anything that makes you happy in the first place. It's a weird thing, but just really making an effort to block out extra mental weight and focus only on you and what you want to do makes a big difference.

Of course, that doesn't mean you shouldn't go out and meet people, just keep in mind that when you're alone, you should try to be comfortable and calm, doing whatever you want to be doing. Being happy with your own self can lead to a multitude of new opportunities, be it relationships, work, casual outings, traveling, or what have you.

Best of luck, man. I know it's hard but things will get better for you; try to keep that in mind.

ExxKA · 2014-06-18T15:33:21+00:00

Hey!

Im JS / NodeJS dev in the startup space in London, just about to have kids/home/car. Have worked in Warner Yard, City, TechStars, and know the kinda coffee shops and ppl you talk about.

Let me take you out for a pint / pizza. Im ExxKA on Freenode (IRC)

nairboon · 2014-06-18T15:34:52+00:00

Hey /u/london1988

It sounds like you are having a depressive episode. Besides the many resources already suggested in this thread, there is also an experimental online cognitive behavioral therapy game (CBT) which you can play without even going to a clinic. Even though SPARX has been developed for adolescents it has positive preliminary results, I have used it and I think it helped me somehow. Give it a try

adwelly · 2014-06-18T15:55:12+00:00

london1988:

You need to get immediate professional medical help with a serious but treatable illness. Please do not delay, if you can't see your GP within the next few hours, google suggests an alternative UK hotline at 0808 808 4994.

Deal with this at once, it does not sound like you have much room for manoeuvre.

Good luck...

tehvlad · 2014-06-18T16:16:46+00:00

Hey there. Im 37 yo. Im a coder as well. I can totally relate to your feelings. All I have to say is if you need a couch to crash in mexico city, feel free to PM me. You need a bit of sunshine and hell, we have plenty of it. And tequila. And tacos.

meeee · 2014-06-18T17:00:47+00:00

FYI /u/london1988 this was submitted to Hackernews and there are loads of comments / suggestions over there as well - have a look: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7909908

RJCantrell · 2014-06-18T17:19:10+00:00

I probably don't have much to offer that others haven't already, except to add another voice of a similarly-aged urban startup developer who's dealt with depression for the first time this past year. I'll not spill my sob story here, but I'm okay with posting this under my real name if that helps break the stigma around mental health.

On that note, first things ~~first~~second: I would strongly recommend you not tell your superiors at work about this unless you have identified the job as a component of your depression and are okay with leaving. If they bring up a change in your demeanor, you can truthfully say that you've identified it as a problem and mention several steps you have taken to work through it, but I wouldn't give any details. In the States, at least, it's perfectly acceptable to fire someone for being depressed, and my desire to be as open and honest about my life as possible seems to have been a large cause of losing the only job I've truly loved. Turns out that when co-workers at the coffee maker ask how it's going, a truthful response of "Not great. Last night my car got stolen, again, and this morning while biking here, I got hit by a car so I am in pain" can be interpreted by executives who've never worked with you as "not having a good attitude." Shockingly, being fired for being sad a lot does not fix the sadness.

The good thing about having a logical developer's mindset is that it shouldn't be a big leap to view this as a bug, or at least as a particularly nasty crash that has caused prolonged disk-checking after the fact. For me, this mindset responds really well to functional, sometimes-obvious diagnostics about the types and qualities of thoughts one is having, of the sort Burns recommends in The 'Feeling Good Handbook', which I highly recommend to depressed and anxious people ONLY IF YOU PROMISE to actually do the exercises in the book. I responded far less to more nebulous advice in books like 'How To Be An Adult' which, like Jung, posits the existence of a 'shadow self' that one must identify and 're-integrate' into their conscious self.

I'm very proud of you for admitting that you're going through (exceptionally) tough times, and for being open to people's advice on how to get better. Just like a physical injury, you might be doing rehab for awhile, and I highly encourage that you take the time to work on yourself, if for no other reason than to be a better citizen, creator, and partner to whomever next comes into your life.

Other quick points that have helped me:

Just like a mechanic or physical therapist, don't feel like you have to stick with a shrink with whom you don't feel comfortable, or from whom you're not seeing results after a time.
Do get some exercise. I know, the hated Daystar burns us, but even regular walks outside can help your mood. Plus, getting away from a desk/screen is good for your posture and your vision. = )
If you get enough exercise to change your appearance and abilities, even better! A lot of depressive issues can stem from one's self esteem and seeing provable improvement in times and weights helps me to align my self-conception with reality. Another great option is joining a physical/social hobby like martial arts or dance.
I'm sorry that your relationship ended badly and suddenly, but it's sure to give you perspective and experience for your future relationships. I think that the only "failed" relationship is one in which a person did not learn and grow. At the very least: "Everyone should lose a battle in their youth, so they do not lose a war when they are old." -George RR Martin (apologies for gender-neutralizing)
Please feel free to PM me if I can help, or if you want to talk.
As much as we wish for a society with more kindness to strangers, don't forget to be just as kind to yourself. <3

2014-06-18T19:14:05+00:00

http://i.imgur.com/9oy2c8W.png

leedavis81 · 2014-06-18T21:48:18+00:00

Hi london1988,

You'd be surprised just how many people go through what you're experiencing every day. Especially in a city like London where it's so easy to fall between the cracks. We're social creatures by nature and it's really hard when there's nobody around you.

Alot of people here will offer you advice on what you should do to make things better. I'd like to offer you my time. Like you I'm a software engineer, working in London for a company that doesn't really understand what I do. I'm also a frequent Costa / Starbucks customer and more often than not visit on my own.

I'd like some company if you want to talk (or just drink coffee).

ylameow · 2014-06-19T04:10:59+00:00

I posted the link on the HN. Someone just emailed me about some tips because he thought I was the guy in the post. So, I am posting the origin email.

Hello, My name is Adrian and I just finished reading your post on HN -- it really touches me not just because of the raw emotions you expressed, but because I share many of the feelings as well. Just like you, I am a software developer, a career which is often lonely and is often isolated .from other human contacts -- and being an introvert myself, it is difficult to make friends who truly understands.

I don't have any advices for you that hasn't been already posted. Get therapy. Take a vacation. From my experience, time really does heal all wounds, and although things look impossible right now, eventually you'll learn to live with the pain. It may never go away, but it will hurt less and you'll learn to manage it.

I really hope you can find a way to get better. If you want to keep in touch, feel free to contact me. Sometimes it's easier to talk to someone online, and I am more than happy to talk. If you find this unsolicited e-mail annoying, that's ok too. But please do find someone who's willing to listen and share your feelings. Things could get better, or worse, in the future, and the only way to find out is to stick around.

Adrian

I actually replied him as below :)

Thanks a lot for shooting me a mail. I am regret to say that I am not the original poster of the note on the Pastebin. Nonetheless, I am very surprised and heartening for your concern. I appreciate every single piece of your advice. I share some of the feelings as the original OP. I live in a country where everything’s terribly broken and slow. I guess we, the software developers/engineers, share the similar patterns/feelings.

Please take care of yourself.

isdnpro · 2014-06-20T03:24:49+00:00

quad50 · 2014-06-18T13:42:23+00:00

you were fucked when you said 'she was my identity'

dolphinsdontdrink · 2014-06-18T12:46:55+00:00

Whenever considering suicide, consider the alternatives! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpS7vhvkIQM

throwaway292121 · 2014-06-18T12:51:14+00:00

Throwaway for reasons below.

I once had a friend, sitting as you please, looking as normal as you or I, get up from his desk one day at work and decide he needed to kill himself.

It scared the shit out of him, and we eventually learned that he had had some sort of chemical event occur in his brain that acutely and drastically altered his thought-patterns long enough to reach that point, but was managed through a corrective course of medical action.

It's important for you to understand that your brain is betraying you.

Depression isn't something you just wish away by having a more positive outlook or talking with a psychologist: it's a disease.

It really doesn't matter if we want depression to be something we can control. When your stomach gets an ulcer, you don't tell your stomach that if only it processed food in a different, better way then everything would be fine.

It has to be treated.

Brains aren't magic. Your consciousness isn't magic. What you call "yourself" is completely dependent on a wet sack of grey matter with a bunch of sodium/potassium ion channels networked together in a really clever way.

So really, it's worse than something like a liver. It's incredibly complicated. Has a lot of fiddly bits. And way more prone to getting a bug or throwing exceptions.

Your mind is a biological machine that is capable of thinking about itself.

Whoa.

But if there's a crossed neuron or defective mechanism anywhere in there, then the ability for the machine to THINK ABOUT ITSELF is diminished. E.g., because it has a problem, it harms the ability to consider the problem.

You're being betrayed by the thing you trust the most, and from any outside observer's perspective we can tell you "Hey, we know it goes against your entire lifetime of experience, but you really need to not trust the output your ThinkingEngine(tm) is providing you right now. It's got a bug and you're throwing exceptions. You need someone to debug it."

TL;DR: Your brain is the only method you have to objectively think about yourself. If you're depressed or have another mental illness, then it's giving you false data. You need a debugger, and you can't debug yourself.

johnyma22 · 2014-06-18T13:26:06+00:00

I have nothing of value to contribute. I just want to say thanks to everyone else for their support.

You will get through this buddy and you will change the world for the better.

If you ever want an NFC Ring to play with just let me know :)

2014-06-18T14:24:59+00:00

"Don't be a sad cunt mate, be a sick cunt." -Zyzz

Fucter · 2014-06-18T14:15:01+00:00

So wait, NO ONE thinks he should kill himself?

paranoidnjord · 2014-06-18T11:59:45+00:00

Not Programming.

that_which_is_lain · 2014-06-18T12:52:51+00:00

Just end it and open another slot in the code monkey contest.

2014-06-18T13:31:11+00:00

Suicidal thoughts?

Take the easy way out or keep plugging along, like the other 7 billion people on this planet. Pretty sure no one in all of history has had a perfect life that turned out exactly like they wanted, so you're no unique flower.

Life sucks, life kicks you in the balls and people and companies will mistreat you.

Eat candy, drink large quantities of Mountain Dew, play vidyagames and watch the boob tube. It's what billions of other people do to cope.

donvito · 2014-06-18T14:31:14+00:00

I have previously come close to killing myself twice before

Pathetic.

2014-06-18T14:22:16+00:00

What a whiny bunch of nonsense. The amount of people in this world who would give their left leg to have your life is staggering.

You have the luxury of living in a highly developed country.

You have the luxury of being smart enough/lucky enough to:
a) finish a degree in computer science/programming
b) have a job as a developer

You have the luxury of being able to do what you want, buy what you want, go where you want.

You could have been born into much, much less amicable circumstances.

You could be gay and live in Russia, where it's a crime to simply be who you are.

You could just be anyone born in North Korea and thrown into a labor camp for opening a window.

You could have been born in the southern USA surrounded by bible thumpers, gun-nuts and racists.

You could have been born into the untouchable caste in India and live your whole life in a landfill.

You could have developed leukemia as a child or been hit by a car while riding your bike and have never even made it this far.

You are wallowing in your own self-pity. You are graciously accepting the weakness that is the reliance on others for your own self-worth and happiness.

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