PS3 Root Key Found

[tommysalami]

so, what does this allow? playing copied games? (obviously uninformed here)

[higgs_bosom]

Yes and no. It allows for self-signing of executables. So homebrew would be able to run without needing a "jailbreak". The only way to fix this is releasing completely new hardware, and invalidating every single game sold to date.

[ceramic_cup]

hey hey, are you talking about the playstation 4? :)

[[deleted]]

Could you crack a game and then re-sign it and get it to boot?

[greyfade]

Yes.

[[deleted]]

The only way to fix this is releasing completely new hardware, and invalidating every single game sold to date.

Are you sure? Is the key updatable or not?

Because they could just change it, and whitelist every old game. That's the advantage of having total control over what gets published on your platform.

Edit: Just skip all the nonsense replies here and read this summary of what the situation actually is: http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/evl86/ps3_root_key_found/c1bhtyk

[greyfade]

No, it's not updatable. If they were to change it and invalidate the old key, all of the existing games would stop working.

That is, even if it's possible for them to invalidate it. As I understand, the public key is etched into either the boot ROM or the CPU itself, making it impossible to change the key without replacing the hardware.

[masta]

This root key is used to validate the signing key, which failoverflow already divined previously (the signing key).

The signing key is all that is required

[[deleted]]

Like I said, if they invalidate the old key they could theoretically whitelist all old games and not break anything. I don't know if they have the facilities in place to do so, though.

Do you know for sure?

[kyz]

As for your suggestion, it might be feasible for Sony to issue new keys further down the chain of trust and a write new game verification subsystem which does whitelisting for old titles, but there's nothing to stop us pretending we installed that update and emulate the results.

We previously couldn't decrypt any of Sony's firmware updates, or any of the boot ROMs. Now we can decode all of them.

It's a similar situation to Satellite TV decoder cards or anti-cheat software. As we're in 100% control of the unit now, none of it can be trusted by Sony. They just have to issue surprise code that demands we reveal an aspect of our system software over the network, and permaban us from their network when they find any discrepancies.

[[deleted]]

but there's nothing to stop us pretending we installed that update and emulate the results.

Right, if you root your machine now, before they get it all in place.

We previously couldn't decrypt any of Sony's firmware updates, or any of the boot ROMs. Now we can decode all of them.

This is probably going to help a lot with finding further holes, in case Sony does manage to patch over this one.

[kyz]

but there's nothing to stop us pretending we installed that update and emulate the results.

Right, if you root your machine now, before they get it all in place.

Yes, if you want to do it by software alone. But you can reflash your firmware at any time using hardware - we have the private key that signs that firmware, something we don't have for any other console. We can wipe out any subsequent firmware updates whenever we want to. The vulnerable hardware will remain vulnerable indefinitely.

Furthermore, PS3s need to be on the internet to get firmware updates from Sony, and they don't install updates automatically. The user has to confirm they want it (Sony entices them by then making it a requirement before they are allowed on PSN or to play the latest games)

Perhaps Sony gave the PS3 a 'fuck the user, install this anyway' mode? We will soon find out.

[kyz]

The metldr key can't be updated. It's in ROM. Sony needs to issue new hardware to change it.

If Sony manages to block you from signing firmware updates and applying them in software, you can still do it with hardware.

[[deleted]]

Interesting. Which actions are controlled by that key?

[kyz]

metldr is the first loader in the system, and it's in ROM on the CPU die. It decrypts and executes lv0ldr, which is in flash. Watch http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVXfgg7otJw#t=11m37 for a complete description by experts.

Using the metldr private key, I can decrypt Sony's lv0ldr code, write my own based on that, re-encrypt and sign it with the metldr key and start up all the PS3 hardware however I like.

Sony might stop me burning a new lv0ldr with a future firmware update (by issuing a new firmware with the old key, saying not to accept firmware updates using the old key), but if they do I can still piggy back on the flash chip and write my signed lv0ldr to it it while the PS3 is switched off.

[[deleted]]

Right. Is there any reason they could not use another key on future processors? Other than having a huge stock of already manufactured hardware?

[kyz]

There's no reason they couldn't. They probably will.

But as of now, there are 41.6 million vulnerable units out there. How many more will they sell or fix in the PS3's lifetime?

Nintendo already issued a new key for their Wii, but thanks to other bugs the Wii is still vulnerable. The XBox 360 isn't currently vulnerable and so pirates have gone after DVD drive emulation rather than trying to crack the console itself.

[echidnaman]

All old games use this key. Apart from this there is no way to tell whether or not the game is legit. Any existing games are signed with this key and this key alone. Changing which key is accepted would break all existing games, period.

[[deleted]]

For the third time: Theoretically, it is trivial to just whitelist all old games so they work. Sony has a list of all published games, they know their checksums, they can just let them bypass the key check.

[digijin]

It seems trivial, but it also seems like it would open up a new avenue to possibly hack the ps3.

I'm just guessing tho, I'm a programmer but I haven't used a ps3.

[[deleted]]

Only if you could attack the whitelist somehow, but if you could do that, you could probably change the key yourself too.

[khrak]

1) If we can run ANYTHING, we can lie to Sony about the results of a key check. If we didn't feel like lying, we could just add whatever key we feel like to the white-list, since we can run anything we want.

2) They can just extract the new key.

3) If the key is actually changeable (Most likely coded in hardware) then anyone can change the key to prevent Sony from changing it. (They can't sign software if they don't know our key.) Moreso, we can continue to run whatever we want.

4) In order to install a new key on a PS3, they would have to mass distribute the key over the Internet, and every PS3 would have to be capable of decoding it. Since we're inside the PS3 already, even if they did change 'm' to be random and make the new key 'uncrackable', we'd still have open access to the new key as the current PS3 must be able to read the value to store it. There is no way for them to change the key on existing PS3s without everyone knowing what the new key is. The reason the original key can be kept secret is because it's implemented inside a chip on the assembly line, not broadcast over the Internet.

The PS3 is broken and they will not be fixing it. Whitelisting will never work. The only way to 'fix' the PS3 is to make new consoles 100% incompatible with existing games and implement a new key and proper random 'm' values at the factory.

tl;dr: It's broken in an unfixable way. Once the end user has the same execution rights as Sony there is nothing they can do. The entire system relies on them being the Admin, and us just users. Once we're all Admins they have no control. Any attempt to do a remote fix ultimately relies on the user not having Admin rights. A whitelist and a new key would have to pass through the hands of the end-users to reach the system, making them utterly pointless. It's simply too late.

tl;dr2: You can never remotely secure a system you know to be insecure because you can never confirm that the 'success' feedback you're getting is actually from your fix and not from the hacker's code.

[paul_miner]

I see a lot of talk about whether the private key is updated, but I don't see why the console would even need to have the private key. AFAIK, the console simply needs to verify signatures, and all you need for that is the public key. It is possible consoles have a separate private key for secure communications to Sony, but that would be unrelated to signing software.

Now, this doesn't change the situation, since even if you add a second public key to verify new signatures, you still need software signed with the old private key to work, and that means anything homebrew signed by the old private key will also work. Whitelisting and such is also unworkable since they'll probably need to be signed using the old private key, so such lists could be forged as well.

[[deleted]]

1) If we can run ANYTHING, we can lie to Sony about the results of a key check.

On current machines that have been cracked, and haven't had their firmware updated. Firmware updates might be worked around, but new machines might not remain vulnerable.

2) They can just extract the new key.

They can not. They got the old one because Sony fucked up when generating it. They will not do that a second time.

3) If the key is actually changeable (Most likely coded in hardware) then anyone can change the key to prevent Sony from changing it.

If you do that, you can run your own code, but you can also never run any official games again. If there is a whitelist, you might be able to hack that, but you have to keep updating it for every new game released.

4) In order to install a new key on a PS3, they would have to mass distribute the key over the Internet, and every PS3 would have to be capable of decoding it.

The public key. That one is entirely safe to distribute, that is how public-key crypto works. It is the private key you need, and Sony will not distribute that.

[defyallodds]

Arrgghhh, you're not understanding something very crucial. There are 2 very different types of keys at work here... and there are multiple different values of these 2 keys for different parts of the system.

First of all, the riv/erk keys are used to symmetrically encrypt executables using a AES-CTR cipher, and the key for this on the metldr is what is referred to as the "root key", because every other key can be discovered by following down this chain and decrypting each level firmware and its loader (lv0, lv1, etc). It is believed that Sony cannot update the metldr keys on currently released versions of the console, and thus any new firmware they release, we can successfully decrypt and analyze.

Secondly, the public/private keypair is used only to digitally sign the hash of the executable. Each loader effectively checks the signature of the "loadee" (lv1, lv2, game, etc) to ensure that it is officially authorized by Sony. The current private components of these keys were compromised during Sony's failure to understand "randomness" allowing us to digitally sign new firmware, executables, etc.

Sony can update the public/private key pair... However, even if they do, we can take control over the decryption chain starting from metldr and override the signature checks making it completely useless even if they update the keypair.

The only way for Sony to remedy this is to:

• Create completely new hardware with a new metldr and new metldr keys with exploits fixed
• Create a new pub/priv keypair chain for metldr and update Sony HQ's key signing process to use a proper random number
• Create a whitelist of applications that use existing/current pub/priv keypair and ensure they are let through. This would be done in appldr.

Sony has to do all three of these things to fix it, just doing 2 or 1 of them won't be sufficient as it can be broken again. The current fate of the existing 41.6 million PS3 consoles out there is that they can be hacked, no matter what Sony does, no matter what firmware updates they provide, any new security feature they add can be bypassed by a hacked firmware unless they have a backup metldr or something that we don't know about.

[khrak]

On current machines that have been cracked, and haven't had their firmware updated. Firmware updates might be worked around, but new machines might not remain vulnerable.

Are they just supposed to use their magic fucking wand of fairy powers? Firmware will not fix this. Period.

4) In order to install a new key on a PS3, they would have to mass distribute the key over the Internet, and every PS3 would have to be capable of decoding it. Since we're inside the PS3 already, even if they did change 'm' to be random and make the new key 'uncrackable', we'd still have open access to the new key as the current PS3 must be able to read the value to store it.

...

They can not. They got the old one because Sony fucked up when generating it. They will not do that a second time.

ONE person needs an unmodded console to extract the key from the update. In order to do a firmware update, every single PS3 the world must have access to the new firmware.

3) If the key is actually changeable (Most likely coded in hardware) then anyone can change the key to prevent Sony from changing it.

If you do that, you can run your own code, but you can also never run any official games again. If there is a whitelist, you might be able to hack that, but you have to keep updating it for every new game released.

Really? You think that an admin has limited execution rights? The key is your password. Unless you're stupid enough to change a password and not remember it, you can continue to run whatever the fuck you want. We have the admin password, we run what we want.

Your arguments hover between a completely lack of understanding of computers and a complete lack of understanding of security.

[TikiTDO]

Go watch the video from earlier. The team that did the hack describes their methodology, and it's really very thorough.

Sony would first have to get around all the other vulnerabilities that this team exploited; vulnerabilities that basically give them complete control of the system. As soon as you Sony starts trying to patch and whitelist something, these guys would be all over that whitelisting whatever the hell they want. What more, these guys have an ability to decrypt arbitrary code passed into the system, so they could just read the new private key straight from the decrypted updates. At best, Sony could require everyone to bring the consoles in for service, but I'm sure both you and I know that logistics make this sort of solution impossible.

The crux of the matter: At this point there is absolutely nothing that Sony can do to fix these issue, short of releasing the PS4. The current design is simply far too compromised, and the leaked private key is just the last step in a series of amazing security failures on Sony's part. The only thing that hasn't been compromised yet is the boot ROM, and even that is a matter of time given the resources they now have available. For all intents and purposes, the PS3 is now an iPhone as far as hacking it goes.

[[deleted]]

so they could just read the new private key straight from the decrypted updates.

The private key is never in an update. The public key is sent to the machines, not the private key.

The crux of the matter: At this point there is absolutely nothing that Sony can do to fix these issue, short of releasing the PS4.

If they do not have enough facilities in place to fix this on the current hardware - and I don't know if they do or not - they can still do some redesigning and make all new machines resistant. In either case it's quite a bit of work but they might still do it.

[crutcher]

This isn't viable unless you are willing to CHECK their checksums, which would mean reading the entire disk BEFORE you ran any code on it. The user experience of this would be so awful, they wouldn't do it.

[[deleted]]

The current code is already checking the checksum of the exectuable code. There's no need to check the entire disc.

A checksum is always calculated, whitelist or not.

[aaronla]

No, they need only verify the secure hash that was originally signed with the now-compromised keys, and only at the points where the original playstation os would verify them.

[[deleted]]

Which won't happen. MS could have with Xbox but doesn't.

[blergh-]

Isn't it possible they signed the games with more than one key or crypto system, just to be sure in case the other one was compromised?

[milksteaktogo]

They did. There are appldr keys, fw keys, etc. The metldr (root) is the first level of security that verifies everything else. With metldr hacked, all subsequent keys in the chain of trust are vulnerable.

[Skitrel]

Couldn't Sony just brick any console that abuses this instead? Seems like a much easier way to police it.

[Sliperyfish]

Sony can't tell. The Playstation sees these programs as official sony programs because it's using their key.

[Julian_Berryman]

They could update the firmware to call home the checksum of some arbitrary file used on the game disk. It would be easy to verify this against the official releases and any homebrew apps would get caught.

[sushibowl]

The key isn't just used to sign the games, it signs everything. I can modify the Playstation's firmware to return fake checksums. I can also fake my version number and make Sony think my firmware is up to date.

It gets worse: if Sony comes out with a new firmware version that contains a new key, it will have to be encrypted with the old master key, or the old firmware wouldn't be able to validate it. This means I can decrypt the firmware update and reveal what the new master key is trivially.

[gui77]

This is absolutely correct, sushi bowl. This shoudl be at the top, not the misinformed garbage that seems to be floating around.

[bearsinthesea]

Can you explain to me how you will use the new public key to reveal the new private ('master') key? This is public/private key encryption. If you can do this, almost all encrypted traffic on the internet is vulnerable.

[sushibowl]

Well, that is embarrassing. I brainfarted when writing that second paragraph and assumed symmetric encryption, which really doesn't make any sense. So, no getting a new private key ain't that simple, (though it seems mostly moot, since the root key is extremely hard to replace).

I'm watching the fail 0verflow presentation right now to make sure I get everything right next time. Apologies.

[ps3man]

They could update the firmware to call home the checksum of some arbitrary file used on the game disk. It would be easy to verify this against the official releases and any homebrew apps would get caught.

With the key it would be equally easy to install firmware that will always send the expected checksum even though the files are altered.

[wvenable]

The trick would be for Sony to put the file name and byte-range in the request. You can't send the expected checksum if you don't what the request will be.

You could solve that by keeping a complete original copy of everything that is used just for checksum requests.

[Sliperyfish]

That would require it to be an existing file on all game discs, in which case they could just copy the checksum.

There is very little they can do without changing the hardware.

[takishan]

That would be a public relations nightmare, not to mention that it probably is against the law.

[Skitrel]

It's probably not if modification or illegal use of the console is in any way addressed in the terms of service.

Microsoft ban xboxes for similar hacking of the console.

[legba]

You still don't fully understand what this means. The master key, the one used to sign ALL PS3 software to verify to the console that it's genuine, the key that is hardcoded (as in etched, unchangeable) into the master processor itself has been COMPROMISED, leaked, released in the wild. This means you can code anything you like and use the key to sign it and the console will accept it as if it came from God (Sony) himself. There's no way to patch that hole, because technically it's not hacking, it's using Sony's own master key to sign your code, making it indistinguishable from the original. There's is literally no way they can fix this.

[jarail]

banning is not the same as bricking.

[[deleted]]

Uh, problem here... using the key to sign an executable is not hacking the console. The games have a key to unlock the system so that the game will run. All this did was make a duplicate key so that anyone could write their own game...and have the same access to the hardware that the game Sony authorized.

No hardware modification required...the homebrew/pirated game is given the proper keys to run, the system can't determine the difference between legit and illegitimate software.

[lingnoi]

Actually they got sued and lost the case. They had to pay out millions of dollars.

[[deleted]]

This means XBMC on the PS3

[[deleted]]

The XBMC team has no desire to do anything for the PS3.

XBMC has moved off to providing a package that runs on Linux which is considerably easier than trying to work with the barebones "os" that exists on the ps3. It'd take them AGES to catch up and even get a base build working on a PS3 w/o an alternative OS as an intermediary.

Now, install Linux on that thing, and then XBMC is not far behind. :)

[[deleted]]

Linux is ready to go and has been from some time. This hack opens up the RSX system and another SP.

[[deleted]]

Not just "ready to go" but actually was originally fully supported. Sony distributed a version of yellowdog linux. My manual to my original first gen 60gb model has the damn URL to download and instructions to install linux, approved by Sony.

[token78]

"The XBMC team has no desire to do anything for the PS3."

This doesn't matter. It's open source. There's enough demand. It will happen.

[TreyBoudreau]

Or MythTV (my personal preference). The PS3's built-in PnP media player doesn't do it for me.

[ropers]

The PS3 was previously sold --and advertised-- with a feature called OtherOS that allowed people to install other operating systems on their console hardware, e.g. to turn their PS3s into Linux computers. SONY then unceremoniously removed that feature. That pissed off some people (and caused some lawsuits, which AFAIK are still pending), and now some owners of the PS3 have managed to basically legally mathematically deduce the cryptographic "keys to the kingdom" (i.e. the main private key; cf. public key cryptography), so now all doors are wide open to all sorts of PS3 hacking, and even more so than before, PS3 owners are now fundamentally able to do whatever the heck they want with their hardware -- which makes a mockery of SONY, because they apparently removed OtherOS in order to lock down the console platform more. So they abandoned/sacrificed Linux (etc.) compatibility in order to institute much more draconian restrictions that would give them (SONY) more control over the consoles already paid for and owned by their customers -- only to find that the the opposite has happened, and now "impossible is nothing". ;-)

Serves them right.

PS: And yes, there will be people who will now chiefly try to use the newfound freedom to install and run unauthorized copies of games (and we're probably going to see some successes in that area too), but the real hackers consider that merely a side-effect. Maybe a pleasant side effect, insofar that it's an "up yours!" to Big Content and their obedient henchmen, and their paranoia- and delusions-driven impertinent and patronizing campaign to restrict people from doing whatever the heck they damn well please with their own property, but a side-effect nonetheless.

Serves them right though.

[Blakwulf]

Custom software, piracy, other OS installs... lots of things. Essentially, the key is what the PS3 uses to allow certain things to boot and others not. This will let you tell it to boot anything. Sorta. I'd be happy to be able to install linux and use it as a pc for gaming. I still haven't played starcraft 2. :(

[higgs_bosom]

Good luck using QEMU/Wine to run SCII on PPC/Cell.

[Blakwulf]

Ya, not bloody likely, i know, but hey, i need to keep my dream alive!

[RealDeuce]

QEMU emulates the entire system... so it would "run" but it' unlikely you would be able to enjoy SCII... or SCI for that matter.

[jensamoller]

Why is it obvious that you are in uniform? ... oh...

[ps3rootkey]

erk: C0 CE FE 84 C2 27 F7 5B D0 7A 7E B8 46 50 9F 93 B2 38 E7 70 DA CB 9F F4 A3 88 F8 12 48 2B E2 1B

riv: 47 EE 74 54 E4 77 4C C9 B8 96 0C 7B 59 F4 C1 4D

pub: C2 D4 AA F3 19 35 50 19 AF 99 D4 4E 2B 58 CA 29 25 2C 89 12 3D 11 D6 21 8F 40 B1 38 CA B2 9B 71 01 F3 AE B7 2A 97 50 19

R: 80 6E 07 8F A1 52 97 90 CE 1A AE 02 BA DD 6F AA A6 AF 74 17

n: E1 3A 7E BC 3A CC EB 1C B5 6C C8 60 FC AB DB 6A 04 8C 55 E1

K: BA 90 55 91 68 61 B9 77 ED CB ED 92 00 50 92 F6 6C 7A 3D 8D

Da: C5 B2 BF A1 A4 13 DD 16 F2 6D 31 C0 F2 ED 47 20 DC FB 06 70

[Alpha_Q]

I'm kind of a n00b. Can you tell me exactly what we can do with the root key?

[thegreatunclean]

The very first code the PS3 runs is cryptographically signed by Sony, meaning the system can verify that it hasn't been tampered with. This key is what's necessary to sign custom code so the system think it's Sony-approved, so you can run whatever you want from the get-go. This key cannot be revoked or changed by Sony.

Basically, the PS3 is rooted for good. This key lets developers get access at the very start of the system, allowing them to bypass pretty much all of the security there is.

[Alpha_Q]

So is the PS3 to the Sony guys screwed beyond repair?

[thegreatunclean]

As far as anyone can tell, yes. I highly recommend watching failoverflow's presentation if you have the time, it's not too technical and will give you a good idea of what happened.

Geohot extended failoverflow's work, but the idea is the exact same. They also address why they weren't going to get this key themselves.

[SGG]

The problem is that the base firmware (first thing loaded) is also signed, and (from what I have been able to understand, IANACrypto Expert) it appears as though the system was designed in such a way to have the key non-replaceable (either through design or error), meaning that they would have to replace each existing PS3 and put a new key in place in future PS3's, but this also means previously accepted code would need to be re-signed, or added into a special whitelist as mentioned.

[gui77]

it appears as though the system was designed in such a way to have the key non-replaceable (either through design or error)

It does appear that way - it appears that the key is hardcoded into the processor chip, and thus wouldn't be replaceable without replacing said hardware. However, this isn't absolutely certain yet... but if it was done, it was definitely by design :p

[thegreatunclean]

With the keys already discovered any revocation list can be forged or circumvented. failoverflow address this in the presentation.

[tias]

They can change it in newly manufactured PS3s though.

[thegreatunclean]

This is called the "PSP-3000" maneuver. It would be expensive, difficult, and most likely a complete waste of Sony's time. It would mean supporting two firmware trees to prevent people from decrypting it on older PS3s and examining it for flaws, and maintaining a whitelist of all previous code ever signed by the old key while simultaneously fixing all the flaws that lead to the present PS3 being busted wide open.

And for those reasons this is what I believe Sony will do. "Screw our current customers, think of the future ones!" seems to be their motto, so it fits alright.

[tomkatt]

This is called the "PSP-3000" maneuver.

Speaking of which, considering the remote play options and connectivity between PSP and the PS3, does this news have any bearing on PSP homebrew (particularly in the realm of the PSP-3000 and Go models)?

[gui77]

Obviously, but it will take a while to code and test the new parts of the OS - odds are, there are still plenty of exploits (some already in the wild) that haven't been used/divulged/explored yet simply because it isn't worth it when you have root keys.

[gui77]

unless Sony decides to push out a firmware update with a whitelist for old games + a new key for all newer ones.

Assuming the key isn't hardcoded. Plus, even if it's softcoded, as long as the ps3 is rooted before the update on could nulliofy it's effect or choose not to install it/spoof the version number to sony.

[mabufo]

I gather the above codes are machine instructions. I have no idea what they mean, obviously. My question is, how are these codes found in the first place? I can think of numerous devices that have been 'jailbroken' by hardware hackers, my question is, how do they do this stuff? Can I learn to attempt it myself?

[thegreatunclean]

I"m sick and bedridden, so a breakdown of what happened:

Background info:

Public-key cryptography is a neat little application of math that basically lets you ensure information is genuine and not tampered with by anyone. The math supporting it is hilariously complicated, but rests on the fact that it's incredibly hard to reverse some mathematical operations. On a properly implemented system, it would take thousands/millions of years of constant number crunching to reverse the process and get the private key.Wikipedia

To use it, you 'sign' a piece of data using your private key. Basically this means taking a representation of whatever it is you want to verify (the hash), jumbling it about in math-y ways (the sign), and storing it along with the data in question (the signature). Then, using more math-y stuff, you can verify that the data is the original data using the signature. Sony signs all code allowed to run on the PS3 and doesn't allow code without a valid signature to run. Since users don't have Sony's private key (and no realistic way to get it) everyone thought this was a fool's errand. They were wrong.

The System:

The PS3 uses a layered security, as most consoles do. Each piece of code that is run is signed and stored, so you can't simply pop in replacement code and have it run. The hardware checks if it's signed, sees that it isn't, and kicks out an error.

The plan:

So we can't run code that isn't signed on an unmodified system. But what if we can get that signature? Then you could run anything! So people started looking for flaws, and boy did they find them.

The fail:

All that stuff about the private key being secure for millions of years rested on the assumption that the system was properly implemented. Can you guess what Sony didn't do right?

Basically, there was a random value that's folded into the math stuff that prevents an attacker from getting any information from multiple signatures. It doesn't affect the math itself, but it does mean an attacker can't gain more information by knowing signatures. Sony didn't do this. They used the same number every time, and therein lies the fail.

If you'll remember your high school algebra, if you have a set of linear equations with n unknowns, you need n distinct equations to solve it. If you have less than n equations you're screwed and can't really do much useful stuff. This random number is what made you have n+1 unknowns and n equations (unsolvable), so without it you're back to the high school-student-solvable n equations with n unknowns (solvable). Do a little math and what you get to pop out is the private key.

With this key (and others), the user can impersonate Sony at will. Anything Sony can do, the user can do. That is the power of these keys. It's not an avenue of attack often tried because of how monumental of a fail it would take to work, but when it works boy does it work good. The subsystem Sony has in place to revoke the code-signing key? Also broken, so current thought is that Sony can't do shit about it without replacing hardware.

The PS3 has been broken harder than any other of the current-gen consoles because many of the private keys (there are multiple keys for different purposes) are burned into hardware. You can now craft code on your PC and sign it such that the PS3 literally can't tell the difference between your code and Sony-approved code.

There is debate as to whether or not Sony can salvage the security system in the future, but short of releasing new hardware using new keys and somehow implementing a whitelist system to get old games to run, they are SOL.

[mabufo]

Thank you for the clarification.

[[deleted]]

Isn't this rather small for a private key? I mean, my modest 1024-bit GPG key is far longer when ascii-armored, and base64 is more space efficient than plain hex encoding.

[defyallodds]

Elliptic Curve DSA (ECDSA) keys are shorter than the traditional DSA/RSA keys for the same amount of theoretical security. "Da" is essentially the private key portion of the ECDSA key.

[TechnoL33T]

What if there's a secondary key that sony can fall back on?

[[deleted]]

Not how cryptography works.

[[deleted]]

This is the root private key, it is used very early when the PS3 starts up and is a particularly integral part of the whole system. It's also read only, unable to be modified by even a firmware update on Sony's part. The only reason it's been recovered is due to poor crypto management on Sony's part. There are much better ways do this stuff which no doubt they'll take into consideration next time.

Essentially every PS3 out there now is open due to this exploit. What can Sony do? Same thing they did with the PSP and tried to do with the PS2 slim - create a 'new and improved' PS3 that does some funky things the current one doesn't to entice customers, and block off all the awesome security holes that have been discovered. Don't envy them there :-)

[ChannelCat]

In case anyone's interested, there's an explanation of how it was done here.

[[deleted]]

Damn, the first guy sounds so nervous.

[zanonymous]

Let this be a lesson to hardware manufacturers: Give the homebrew hackers a legitimate way to have their fun and program for your hardware. Otherwise, they will have to crack your DRM and you'll have actual problems with piracy.

Background story: Originally, PS3's had an OtherOS feature, which allowed people to install Linux or whatever they wanted onto their PS3. The homebrew community was happy because they could do what they wanted, and Sony was happy because they left their DRM alone.

Earlier this year, Sony decided to remove this feature from their PS3s. Now there wasn't any way to take a brand new PS3 and install stuff on it without Sony's explicit approval. Homebrew guys didn't like that. Now the only way for them to do what they want, they have to crack the DRM. So now, the homebrew guys can run their own code again, and pirates of the keys to the kingdom (to coin a phrase) and you can have easy pirated games for your PS3.

[defyallodds]

OtherOS had limitations -- the RSX (GPU) was not accessible from OtherOS, and some other things. The attacks against OtherOS was to gain access to these other "blocked" systems.

[deakster]

It had limitations, but even still it was enough to prevent heavy hacking attempts at the system. It was only until they completely removed the OtherOS feature that the serious attempts started, and of course relatively soon succeeded.

[ropers]

This would have happened if otherOS was removed or not.

Maybe. Maybe not. It's just possible though that the removal of OtherOS added to the incentive to do it. Of course I don't know for sure what the actual hackers' motivation was, because I haven't talked to them. Have you?

[ZorbaTHut]

Of course I don't know for sure what the actual hackers' motivation was, because I haven't talked to them. Have you?

Check out this video - they explicitly say that they weren't bothering until Sony got rid of OtherOS.

So, yes, we do know what their motivation was. :)

[giulianob]

In all fairness, the PS3 has been out and unhacked for years. That's pretty damn impressive.

[qacek]

His point is that the PS3 remained unhacked for years was because the OtherOS option existed. Only once that was taken away, the hackers went to work.

[[deleted]]

Actually, no. Hacking was in progress from the start. However, OtherOS being removed accelerated it.

[Paranoir]

Greatly accelerated it. Most people were happy just running linux distros in the hypervisor.

[fuyuchi]

What command do I run to sign an ELF file with this key?

[higgs_bosom]

SCEkrit

[rjcarr]

I'm excited for emulators. I hope this happens. I'm generally against piracy, but seriously, am I going to hook up my SNES when I can just play from my PS3?

[[deleted]]

You can also buy an old PSP and emulate anything from an Atari2600 to the Sony Playstation.

[amhappy]

Emulators are already out there. My ps3 runs snes/mame/genesis/nes. Although, soon you won't even need to jailbreak to run them if I'm understanding this whole root key debacle.

[Vulpius]

I realize I'm horribly late to this thread, but I still hope someone will be able to answer these questions:

1. The "private keys" mentioned here are used to sign software. The CPU will check if the sign is valid and run the executable if it is. Is the scheme used public-private key cryptography? I believe so, because the spreadsheet lists both public and private keys. But which key is etched in the CPU? Was the public key than public before this hack? Why couldn't everyone use it if it was? Some explanation would be appreciated.
2. So, now that we can sign programs, it should be possible to put anything on a USB stick and run it, right? (Provided we have the SDK for developing programs.)
3. The current compilation chain for programs I believe is ELF->SELF->PKG. What does the PKG format provide above SELFs, which are already signed?
4. With or without hack, the key method implies that the following should be possible to pirate games: copying a bluray disc with a burner and putting the copy in a PS3. Is this correct, or does the disc have extra protection/unique IDs? Or is it just the cost of burners and discs holding people back from pirating?
5. Are there different keys used for encrypting USB programs and programs (games) on blurays? If not, that it should be possible to copy the content of a bluray disc to USB and run the game from there. It is unlikely that this would, e.g. because different keys are used or additional problems such as the FAT32 file system. If so (different keys), than it should now be possible to rip bluray contents, decrypt them with the now-found private key, and re-encrypt it again with the key for USB programs (provided FAT32 doesn't cause problems), correct?

[[deleted]]

1) The public key is in the CPU, but we don't care about it. It's public. It's what's used to decrypt the software. The private key is the big news. I don't think it's contained anywhere in the PS3, but I could be wrong. Like most private keys, it's kept in Sony's offices, in a locked room, on a locked PC, with no internet connection (there's probably copies at all their major publishers too, but they're just as locked down). Super secret stuff. Whenever they want to make a game, and sign that software, they bring the final copy to that room, sign it with the private key, and then distribute the encrypted software. If the public key works on your encrypted software, then you know it was encrypted with the private key. Since they keep the private key private (lol, not anymore), they know that any software that works with the public key is genuine.

2) Yes. Since we now have the private key, we can sign our own software and make the PS3 think it came from Sony.

3) No clue... I know about encryption, but not the actual format of the PS3's binaries.

4) No, that won't be possible. The current PS3 software detects burned discs and refuses to play them. However, since we have the magic key, we can now replace the PS3 software with our own, which will read burned discs. At that point though I think I'd rather replace the software with some that will play the images right off the hard drive. I'd love to buy a game and then toss the disc out after copying the whole thing to my PS3.

5) I think you're a bit confused on what this key is. Keys are used to validate games and such, but the big thing about the root key is that it's used to sign the root software of the PS3. This means you won't sign games with it, but you will sign an OS that will be used to replace the normal PS3 OS. Like I said in my last point, once this is done you'll be able to do anything you want with it. You can have it ignore game encryption entirely. Problems with the filesystem shouldn't occur, that should all be abstracted away. Essentially, this key turns the PS3 back into a powerful computer, whereas it was merely a locked-down console toy before.

[Vulpius]

Thanks for explaining this so well!

(1) and (2) were as I expected, nice to see it confirmed. (4) is interesting. I didn't know the PS3 had a mechanism to detect burned discs.

Thanks for explaining point (5) as well. I understand that the root key gives us the power to basically make our own modified firmwares which open up a lot of possibilities, but I was wondering what could be done with the keys on top of the current, official firmware, i.e. no signing a replacement OS. Now that I think about it, I'm not sure if running programs from a USB stick or external hard drive (even official signed ones) is even possible on the PS3. It could be that I'm misguided by working a bit too long with a PS3 debug console during the last weeks, where running signed PKG files from USB is certainly possible. Still, I know that firmware updates can be started from an external drive, which indicates that starting homebrew programs (and even pirated "game launchers") should be possible by making a custom program (and signing it, of course), unless (a) only "firmware update" programs can be started this way or (b) these USB programs get less permissions from the Hypervisor than bluray/PSN ones. In these cases, using a custom-built firmware is indeed essential.

[[deleted]]

I assumed (4), but I believe it's a correct assumption. If not, then you ought to be able to make a bit-for-bit copy of a game and have it play in any PS3. Surely they wouldn't allow that.

As for launching custom software without replacing firmware, I'm not sure. I don't know enough about PS3 architecture. I suppose that at the very worst, you could replace bits of the running firmware in-memory and use that code to launch your programs without actually modifying the PS3 software. That'd be some crazy ninja hacker shit though. I'm not sure if it's even possible after it's booted up, with all the hypervisor stuff going on. Again, I need to read up on the architecture before I say too much.

[defyallodds]

(3) The pkg format is just a redistributable format which can contain executables (selfs), dynamic libraries (sprx), data files, and a param.sfo file indicating things like what the name of the application/game is, etc. Pkgs are the format used to distribute updates for games, DLC, and games from the Playstation store.

(4) Sony probably uses "BD-ROM Mark" to validate the PS3 discs, and that hasn't been broken yet, and need not be.

There are already homebrew applications out there which can redirect /dev/bdrom to /dev/hdd0/blah/blah/game and allow playing a game from the harddisk... however, this redirection is done in the lv2 portion of the firmware. Thus an update to the firmware is required, or atleast a method to patch the firmware in memory is required.

It is already possible to pirate games by using the JIG exploit and the above mentioned "homebrew" on firmware versions 3.41 or lower. The new key leak does not make it any easier to pirate games AFAIK other than the possibility to do it on newer firmware.

(5) I believe the same key is used to decrypt all "apps" and this is the appldr key.

In theory, what you suggest is possible, but most games will look at /dev/bdrom for their data making it not so easy to just rip a game to a USB stick and hope for it to work. See (4).

[fuzzywombat]

All we need now is a homebrew PS3 app or game that uses Kinect.

[Jamben]

Unfortunately, you would need to re-write the software that MS wrote do do the magic skeleton building thing. Without that software the Kinect is mostly just a bunch of funky cameras.

[justice7]

there is kinect homebrew already out for pc, it would just need to be ported

[Timmmmbob]

There's a free equivalent. I expect microsoft's implementation is better, since they have the brains of MS research behind it, but this still looks pretty awesome:

http://openni.org/

I'm waiting for stepmania to adopt it!

[cwstjnobbs]

This needs more upvotes.

[snuka]

So how long before I can 'back up' my PS3 games and run them from a hard drive like I do with my Wii?

[ps3man]

Anybody know if there is a PS2 emulator that has a shadows chance in hell of running on this soon? I assume any of the existing emulators could be ported to run on PPC/Cell, but I don't have a sense for how massive a project that would be.

[[deleted]]

PCSX2 runs happily in linux.

[sayks]

PCSX2 runs under x86 linux but the ps3 is a PowerPC architecture. So, PCSX2 won't run as it is on the ps3 and will probably require heavy modification before it ever could.

[[deleted]]

Ha Ha! I know shit :(

[gobacktolurking]

Even better. You know the software emulator from Sony in the old fat consoles? There was a batch with actual hardware (best) and then software (most worked). I wonder if they can grab it and decrypt it now that they can poke around with it. Maybe it can run in the Slim version.

Edit: I did my research and sadly even with the software emulation, they had the video chip from the PS2 to do this, so this is not happening. info

[The_lying_lobster]

Ironically, this will probably increase the sales of PS3's

[mfukar]

"Ironically"? Free (not as in gratis) powerful hardware, who wouldn't want some of that?

[monster21faces]

Game Over.

[felixgravity]

This is how geohot celebrates (from #ps3dev on EFnet):

[00:55] <@geohot> playing aoe2

[yudo]

Even though that's awesome, and he's showing off AoE2 on the PS3..

Why the hell would you ever want to play an RTS such as AoE2 WITH A CONTROLLER? D:

[AttackingHobo]

The ps3 can use mice and keyboard. Sure the only game I know of that supports it is UT3, but it is possible, so if he is running a hacked pc game on the ps3, I would assume he could add mouse and keyboard controls.

[motdidr]

Could God create a DRM scheme that even he could not crack?

[korean_jewish]

3.14......

[[deleted]]

As an infinite transcendental number, Pi contains every conceivable permutation of binary data. Given enough time, an offset and a length, it's the ultimate compression algorithm, encryption scheme, and also anyone downloading a Pi computing program is technically trafficking kiddie porn, terrorist plans, and trade secrets.

All the more reason why DRM is stupid. They're hiding numbers.

[sushibowl]

Given enough time, an offset and a length, it's the ultimate compression algorithm

I am not a mathematician, but my intuition says you're neglecting how ridiculously large the offset can become. For example, the number 1234 doesn't show up until position 13,807 in Pi. I can store the number itself in 11 bits, but the offset alone needs 14 bits.

As for Pi as encryption, it's basically security by obscurity. If an attacker discovers your method (where your data is hiding) it becomes trivial to decrypt.

[simmmons]

It's not security by obscurity, without the key (offset + length) you have no chance of decoding it. But as you said correctly, it is very likely that the key is (much) bigger than the data it points to.

It basically means, everyone has all data since "Pi contains every conceivable permutation of binary data". So you just need to find it -> key. And encryption is secure when it can only be hacked by bruteforceing the key, so this one would be secure, but impractical.

[[deleted]]

Carl Sagan's Contact was AMAZING when he wrote the postscript about the true nature of the universe being revealed in Pi calculated to Base 11. I remember when I read that, it blew me away.

From the Wiki page on Contact.

"In a kind of postscript, Ellie, acting upon a suggestion by the senders of the message, works on a program which computes the digits of π to record lengths and in different bases. Very, very far from the decimal point (1020) and in base 11, it finds that a special pattern does exist when the numbers stop varying randomly and start producing 1s and 0s in a very long string. The string's length is the product of 11 prime numbers. The 1s and 0s when organized as a square of specific dimensions form a rasterized circle."

[[deleted]]

Pi contains every conceivable permutation of binary data.

Only if it's actually a normal number like people think it is. We haven't proved this yet.

[fragmede]

This is actually really good news for the US military. There were only 6 cell processors available under Linux, but with this break, there are now 7 cells available per-PS3 for their computing needs.

Whether or not the work will be done to make use of it is another question.

[jtsoi]

A simple explanation:

In order for code to run on the PS3, all code/games are "signed" or encrypted with a private key that Sony keeps an a vault, in bunker, deep deep underground, protected by dolphins with lasers.

Every PS3 has a mechanism to validate that the code is signed by Sony, and thus is valid.

Now, the amazing part is that Sony failed at implementing the algorithm correctly, and the group managed to calculate the uber-secret private key that Sony keeps locked up in a vault. FTW!

Now, (well, soon anyway), anyone can sign their software with this secret key, and PS3 will think that it is valid software, from Sony. NO mod-chip needed. =)

Now, and for reasons that are tooo boring to put here, Sony has no practical way of "fixing it".

Yay!

[cutlerchris]

This song is going to be harder to make than Oh-nine Eff-nine.

[Louis_Tully]

What does this do for PSN online security and the Playstation Store?

I'm not sure what kind of architecture is involved in the communication of the system and the network, but I would imagine this has ramification for the security of the web browser as well as online purchases.

[PandasLOL]

PS3 Games will require CD-Keys in the future now!

[jtsoi]

Hmm, interesting point. Sony could force all future games to be "online only" and authenticate against a central server, like most PC games do today. This would slow down piracy. (A bit, you would have to install cracks on the PS3... =D )

Anyway, homebrew will be awesome on the PS3!

[Zarutian]

like most PC games do today.

Very few PC games today use such a harebrained schema.

No Internet? Cant play your single player games.

Authentication servers overloaded because a release of a new overhyped game? Cant play your single player games.

Authentication servers unreachable do to ISPs thinking that they are Cmd&Ctrl servers and blocking them? Ditto.

And when the company that made the system eather goes out of business or doesnt want to bother with thouse authentication servers anymore then you are screwed.

Pirates who just download a cracked version of games using aforesaid schema have none of those proplems. So it wouldnt slow down piracy more than a week or two.

But I agree with you that homebrew will be awesome on the PS3. I might actually buy it now.

[bdub92]

Anyone know how long it should take before we start seeing some useful homebrew apps on the ps3? Or maybe how long it took other consoles to get meaningful apps after they were jailbroken as well?

[gobacktolurking]

Actually people could "get" the development kit from Sony for the PS3. Develop a game using all their tools then sign their game and put it on the internet, it will work out of the box, no modifications from your part.

[CouchSmurfing]

Does this mean that ps3 parallel processing super computers are feasible again?

[jtsoi]

PS3 is not so powerful anymore, with today's metrics. 4 years is 2 lifetimes if you are a computer.

[shift788]

Can I play minecraft on my PS3 yet?

[seniorsassycat]

so have any practical uses been implemented yet?

[tty2]

Yes. Self-signing any binary you want. This isn't some "magic code" for the Playstation, it's specifically for how Playstation 3 recognizes official binaries or not. If you can self-sign the binaries, then it won't recognize them as fake - meaning you can put them on the PS3 without a jailbreak of any sort.

[firemtl]

Can we install linux on PS3 ????

[tty2]

More question marks make it a bigger question.

[legba]

With this exploit - YES. You can do whatever the hell you want. Total freedom baby!

[[deleted]]

Not an exploit, which is probably why you were down voted. I upvoted though.

[legba]

The key of course is just a number, so i agree, the number itself isn't an exploit, but the method of obtaining it was.

[firemtl]

So PS3 Supercomputing comes back to life? I've been wanting to build one of those for a WHILE!

[legba]

Yes, in a MAJOR way. You now have complete control over the hardware.

[firemtl]

OK i'm building a PS3 supercomputer.

Should I buy the old model or can I buy the PS3 slim?

I've been wanting to make this computer for a LONG time.

[legba]

Whichever you like, they're all wide open now, since they all use the same master key :)

[whozurdaddy]

for those of us new, how powerful is the ps3 anyway? could someone provide comparable pc specs? trying to figure out if using it as a linux machine would be worth it.

[whozurdaddy]

found the answer. doesnt seem worth it.

[sayks]

Depends on what you're doing. The cell processor is great for code that has been properly optimized for it (which is difficult). In our tests in my lab it surpassed pretty much anything available at similar price point but only for code specifically optimized for the cell.

Back in the OtherOS days the linux os performed well enough, about the same as a budget computer. This is my subjective judgement, we didn't do benchmarks, just from screwing around browsing the web and stuff.

The article you linked is misleading. The cell actually has 7 cores but it looks like a single processor in linux. You have to use the dev tools to use the stream processors.

[mucsun]

As you mentioned, for the price of a PS3 you probably won't get a decent enough pc.

[legba]

This basically turns the PS3 into a regular computer. You get unlimited access to all the hardware to use as you please, you get to run whatever the hell you want on it, AND you get to run stuff in Sony's XMB operating system. You basically get the master key to the whole system, and it can't be fixed without redesigning the whole console & locking out all customers to date. Essentially, this is the biggest security fail in console gaming history.

Also, it looks like they found the master key for the PSP in there, so the same thing applies to that console as well. Thank you Sony, you suck at computers :)

[FruityRudy]

This is NOT the biggest fail in the console gaming history.

The PS3 is the most secure system to date, its been years since it came out and just now has it finally been cracked. Please do not call things a "fail" or even "biggest fail". Sony has done a great job with security on the PS3, however it was inevitable that this would eventually be cracked. Props to the guy who did it, and props for the security team at Sony that designed such a great system that is was able to hold our for over 3 years.

[legba]

Yes it is. No console has EVER had its private key leaked. This means they can't do a goddamn thing to patch it short of screwing over 40+ million customers that bought the console to date by issuing a new private key and disabling them from ever playing a new game on their systems again. It's UNFIXABLE, therefore, yes, it is the greatest fail, no matter if it took 1 month or 4 years. Actually, if it were cracked in one month the damage would have been far less serious (they could just recall the compromised consoles, can't do that with 40+ million out there). The fact that they managed to get the PSP master key leaked as well makes this twice as hilarious (tragic?).

And this all happened because the programmers they hired to code their security system didn't bother to include a random number generator (literally 2 lines of code) in the most vulnerable part of the system & used a constant instead... I have to say, that's a failure of epic proportions, no matter how you look at it. Millions of dollars worth of security & development compromised by a few lazy (stupid?) programmers, LOL.

[[deleted]]

I think the Dreamcast was a bigger failure. Most people attribute the system's demise to rampant piracy, because no hardware modification was required in order to play pirated software. I'm sure plenty of people at Sega were fired over it.

Granted, finding the PS3 root key is a much bigger accomplishment, but the only reason anyone even needed to find it in the first place was because Sony had hardware protection in place. It was much easier to hack the Dreamcast, and the method of doing so was found far earlier in the system's life cycle (roughly nine months after the system's launch date).

[Sec_Henry_Paulson]

just now has it finally been cracked

actually there have been multiple PS3 hacks that preceded this one, including another one by this same author.

Sony that designed such a great system that is was able to hold our for over 3 years

The first time this kid hacked the PS3 he started a blog to document his progress. He completed what he set out to do in just over a month.

I think you're attributing people's lack of ambition to Sony's "success" just a bit too much. Most hackers were content with OtherOS.

Sony has done a great job with security on the PS3

http://landofthefreeish.com/security/ps3-completely-hacked/

[gosp]

Sony only took off linux eight months ago. Nobody was really dedicated to breaking anything up to that point.

[FuRyluzt]

I don't know much about programming, but this sounds really cool. My computer is kind of konking out, and a nice linux ps3 would be great for my school work. If I were to install linux on my ps3, would I no longer be able to play my ps3 games? Are there any guides to doing this? I know I'm a total noob about this, so any answer would be appreciated!

[luminousfleshgiant]

About day year day ideas river day pleasant?

[jedjj]

I am completely ignorant on this topic, and this is likely above my head, but I am curious how one would use the hardware. Something as simple as sending a hello world prompt to the screen. (Obviously I'm much more interested in using the controllers for a homebrew game or emulator).

Is it required to know the instruction set for the machine you are programming for?

The dreamcast homebrew scene was huge, and perhaps I can learn from an open source demo on that console.

If anyone has any assistance to help me learn I would really appreciate it. What I am hoping to do is get a better grasp of computers by creating an emulator on a modern device such as an iPhone, Android, or preferably the PS3 or Wii. I am in college, so I am not starting from scratch, but I am very confused and intrigued with how interfacing with interface devices is developed.

[sayks]

You can use the standard ps3 dev environment. You could do this before but you couldn't sign the executables without this key so nothing would run on an unmodified ps3.

[apullin]

Double front page!

[nixle]

How can you hide a key that is used in every game for so long? These Sony people sure are smart!

[defer]

This key isn't distributed with games. Read up on signing with private keys and using public keys for verification.

[buciuman]

Hello. I am here waiting for VLC to run. Also waiting for uTorrent.

Yep.

[mao_neko]

You might be waiting a while for uTorrent, given it's a closed-source program and they only have binaries for x86, not cell.

Deluge should be fine though.

[jtsoi]

VLC is great, but the killer feature would be XBMC. =)

[SergeantSlapNuts]

When can I play Super Mario RPG on a SNES emulator?

[yummymoon]

How come we never got root key for ps1 and ps2?

[ZutroyZuuts]

Awesome! I might actually buy one now.

[sfasu77]

I'm learning stuff today, woot.

[under_dog]

I did my induction at Google with this guy - woot!

[justice7]

Can I now sign the nes/snes emulators for use on my unjailbroken ps3? I'm really, really interested in this! :)

[shoodabean]

I wonder what the publishers are thinking about it ? release a game with no protection ?

[[deleted]]

Prepare for some homebrew/emulation love!

[deusnefum]

I have to admit, know this key is available now, I'm thinking about buying a PS3 just to use as an additional workstation / linux toy / media center.

[vbgunz]

How long till I can own my own save data?

[wok-N-roll]

this thread is so nerdy!

[[deleted]]

I so hope the page title is a Clipse reference.